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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  March 1, 2015 10:00am-11:01am PST

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. what do you think? >> russian opposition leader, kremlin, can't talk about what's stranger than that. as grim and sinister as "house of cards" is unfortunately house of cards is as well. >> that will be interesting to see what happens with that. you are amazing. thank you so much. appreciate it. thank you for watching state of the union. i'm dana bash in washington. fareed zakaria "gps" starts right now. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. coming to you today from the ancient citadel high atop amman, jordan. the centerpiece of the show will be an exclusive interview with the king of jordan, his majesty abdullah ii.
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his first interview since isis released gruesome video documenting the murder of one of his nation's heroes, an air force pilot. what was his reaction as a king? >> the gloves have come off. >> as a father. >> disgust, sadness to the family. >> how far will his nation go in response to try to defeat isis? >> this is our war. >> then from next door, the man who could upset israeli politics. a poll this week has the party dead even with the party of the current prime minister benjamin netanyahu. elections are just 16 days away. what does herzog think of mr.
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netanyahu going to washington? i'll ask him. but first here is my take. washington is getting enthusiastic about idealogical warfare these days. not democrats versus republicans but rather americans versus islamists. having spent the last two weeks insisting we label jihadi terrorist islamic, many cry we must fight them on ideological front. fine. such a struggle against radical islam will be different from vast cultural struggles and will yield somewhat surprising recommendations for action. our image of an ideological war comes from the cold war, a titanic struggle between two complete world views. that struggle was so pervasive and intense because the enemies ideas were potentially attractive to anyone anywhere in the world. communism and capitalism were both secular ideologies, each trying to seduce the world's
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undecided into its camp. it's difficult to remember today that for decades communism was alluring to tens of millions of people. in the 1920s and '30s, many of the western world's greatest intellectual like irish playwright george bernard shaw and the historian h.g. wells were enamored of it. in 1940s, communist parties got large chunks of the vote in free elections in france and italy, leaving many observers to worry those countries would choose to become communists. around the world the appeal of socialist and communist ideas was real and at times very strong. radical islam by contrast is severely limited in its global allure. almost by definition it is deeply unattractive to all non-muslims. even within the muslim world radical islam does not do well. in the half of that world that
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votes, indonesia, india, bangladesh, turkey, iraq and pakistan. parties based on such ideologies have garnered very few votes. thus the ideological war today is really and crucially a struggle within islam. that's a war that has to be waged by muslims. if outsiders like america want to play a role, they should try to listen to and support those muslims fighting the good fight. it's irrelevant what barack obama wants to call isis. what matters is what the locals here in jordan and in other arab countries want to call it. >> against these people -- >> as you'll hear in a moment, the king of jordan thinks such people should be described as outlaws of islam. whatever the phrase, the effort seems similar to that of the obama administration, to deny these groups the mantle of religion, and in effect to
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ex-communicate them from mainstream islam. the ultimate irony is if one does understand the ideology of islamists properly it leads in one direction. graeme wood in his much discussed essay discussion greater military involvement against isis. the biggest proponent of an american invasion is the islamic state itself, he writes. the provocative videos are clearly made to draw america into the fight. and invasion would be a huge propaganda victory for jihadists worldwide. instead counsels containment, selective airstrikes and support from muslims who are working to dissuade their brethren from falling prey to radical islam. in other words, fighting an ideological war against isis actually points one towards a sophisticated strategy that employs military restraint and political cooperation with
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arabs. i wonder if those clamoring for such a struggle are on board. for more, go to and read more. and let's get started. ♪ >> king abdullah ii ascended jordan's throne just over 16 years ago. there arguably has never been a more tense time during his reign. by the u.n.'s count, there were 800,000 refugees in january. some say the number is higher. one refugee camp is now the fourth biggest city in jordan. outside jordan's borders, it has isis in iraq and syria, which is spilled over into lebanon and turkey and now perhaps even further afield. it has the palestinian problem in israel and the west bank right next door.
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most recently, abdullah has had to lead his nation through the sadness and anger that flowed from the brutal murder of one of the nation's air force pilots by isis. we met in the al-hashmiya palace in jordan's capital. >> your imaginemajesty thank you for joining us. >> good to be here. >> this the first time you're speaking to the world since the death of the jordanian pilot and that brutal video. tell us what was your reaction when you first saw the video? >> in actual fact, i didn't see the video. many of us refused to see what i think is propaganda. obviously, i had a detailed brief of what happened. we couldn't escape seeing, obviously, pictures in the newspapers.
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disgust, sadness to the family. i had met the family on many occasions. my heart went out to the father, the mother, brothers and sisters, his wife had only been married five months. anger as son of the army forces, god bless his soul, he's a brother in arms. so i think all soldiers past and present were disgusted by the brutality of what moab was put through. i think if isis or dash, as we call them, try to intimidate jordanians, i think just have the reverse effect. if you look at our history, we're a country that's used to being outgunned and outnumbered. we've always punched way about our weight. i think if anything dash has us as a tiger by the tail. it just motivated jordanians to
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rally around the flag and the gloves have come off. >> what do you think they are trying to do with the video? >> they are always trying to intimidate scare, put fear into people's hearts. this is a group that works by intimidation. they are trying to invent falsely, link to caliphates length to our history in islam, which has no truth or bearing to our history. to bring in deluded young men and women who think this is sort of an islamic nation, it has nothing to do with our history. actually the barbarity with the way they executed our brave hero shocked the muslim world,
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specifically jordanians from this region. it had nothing to do with islam. intimidation is the major lesson. >> jordanian government promised an earth shattering response, as i recall. what we've seen so far isn't that dramatic. is there more to come? how should we interpret what is going to happen? >> earth shattering from all military capabilities is not something that happens overnight. there has been a massive response from their campaign. there are continued operations going on in syria. we are coordinating with our friends in iraq. there is a long-term approach to this issue. and again, this is one of the issues that i'd like to point out to you. one of the things that the isis
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and daesh has been saying, why are we picked on by fellow muslims, why are jordanians getting involved in this war. this has been our war. it has been for a long time. against these people for lack of a better term, these are outlaws, in a way, of islam that have been trying to use expansionist policy. the minute they set up this irresponsible caliphate to try to expand their dominion over muslims. they try to make themselves look as the victims. it is us muslims preying on them. what about the hundreds if not thousands of muslims they have killed in syria and iraq over the past year and a half. the tribes we have a responsibility to reach out to in eastern syria, important in western iraq that had been executed in large numbers over the past year and a half. so this is our war. we have a moral responsibility to reach out to those muslims to
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protect them and to stop them before they reach our border. >> in syria, are you not inevitably aligned with the assad government in the sense that if isis is your main threat winston churchill said if hitler were to invade hell, i would make common cause with the devil. do you have to de facto side with assad. >> there's the history dealing with regime and history of dealing with isis or daesh. we have always believed there has to be a political solution for syria. what has taken prominence at the moment is isis, daesh at this stage. are we trying to chew gum and walk at the same time? this has to be decided by the international community. we believe there has to be a political solution that brings sort of the moderate forces and the regime to the table because
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there is this bigger problem. that has not been clarified at the moment. coalition, arab muslim western, so to speak, can only do so much in syria against isis. but at the end of the day it has to be syrians themselves especially when you want to reach heartland of isis. >> when we come back with his majesty king abdullah ii, i will ask him what he wants to call the radical islamists or radical extremists that president obama doesn't want to call islam, when we come back.
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we are back with his majesty king of jordan king abdullah ii. president obama has gotten into a little trouble or received some criticism because he says he doesn't want to call groups like isis islamic extremists because he doesn't want to give them the mantle of legitimacy by acknowledging they are islamic. do you think he's right? >> i think he is right. i think this is something that has to be understood on a much larger platform. they are looking for legitimacy they don't have inside of islam. when we're asked in debate are you moderate or extremists, what these people want is to be called extremist. they take that as a badge of honor. if you ask me moderate or extremists, i'm a muslim. these people, terms using more and more, they are in a way
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outlaws that are on the fringe of islam. and if you look at sort of the way they are presented inside they are inside sunni islam. sunni islam is 1.5 billion muslims. they represent only 1%. out of that may be 200 to 500,000 of these people. they are the crazies of this element. to label islam under the term of extremist and moderates is completely wrong. i think, by making this comparison they are extremist muslims is exactly what they want. they are muslims. i don't know what they are. they definitely do not have any relationship to our faith. when baghdadi, the leader of
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isis came out with his manifest even extremist organizations completely backed away from what he said. he has nothing to do with the tenets of islam. itis tolerance that reaches to other people. >> how should the west respond to this? arab response, muslim response, or should the west be in the lead? this has to be unified. i've said this to leaders both in islamic and arab world and to the world in general. this is a third world war by other means. this brings muslims, christians, other religions together in this generational fight that all of us have to be together. so it's not a western fight. this is a fight inside of islam where everybody comes together against these outlaws so to speak together. it's a short-term part of this, military part of the issue. there's medium part, which is security part to it. there's a long-term element to
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this, which is obviously the ideological one. that's the one more complicated and more difficult. >> in sunni islam, as you know, there is no priestly hierarchy. there are no popes or really anything like that. but there is historically a great weight given to people who have some family association with the prophet. your family is regarded as descending from the prophet. given that, do you think that when you hear talk not just from people in isis but people who did the things they did in paris about blasphemy and punishments of blasphemy, do you think any of this has any basis in islam? >> again, those that are trying to use -- there's a difference, and i'm sure we can get into this, between freedom of speech and hate speech.
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both ronnie and i president of paris, the right thing to do to stand-up against violence and terrorism. se also stand in the name of a young muslim policeman, the first policeman to be at the scene of that crime who paid with his life defending the laws of france. we were there to defend those innocents killed in the name of islam, whether it was the 150 odd school children killed in a school in pakistan, whether it was the thousands that were killed in a nigerian village in a single day or thousands of muslims killed every day in syria and iraq. so the issue of the blasphemy, if anybody understood the prophet, may peace be upon him, and how he used to look at life, he was persecuted at the beginning of bringing islam
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together, and he always forgave. there were some brutal things that happened to him, his family, and he always forgave those around him. so for these extremists now to be able to sort of be the defenders of his honor, when they don't understand who he was, i find so insulting in a way, because he would have always forgiven. but that's not what they want to do. they want to create that hatred. my brother again spoke out that the sort of vilifying of religions is something we all have to stand together. then you see the good stories unfortunately not reported enough in the media. so when you look at what's happened over the past several months, when people or extremists in sweden went and sort of painted insulting
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graffiti on a mosque door in the city in sweden, the swedish people came out and put paper hearts on the door of that mosque. islamic groups went out chanting against islam. the great cathedral of cologne turned out its lights in protest against that. last week young muslims in oslo held hands around a synagogue to show a ring of peace. these are the messages that we're all united together against this fight. and not to fall into the trap that the extremists want on either side to create hate between religions. that's what we have to concentrate on. >> when we come back, more of my interview with the king of jordan. i will ask him where isis gets its money when we come back. when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth...'s fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue ...and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum, tum tum tum...♪ smoothies! only from tums.
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>> we are back with his majesty, king abdullah ii of jordan. people, how they finance themselves, sophisticated media operation. let's start with the money. how do they have so much cash?
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>> money does get supplied by individuals in our part of the world. you've seen u.n. resolution recently to try and move us into international community to make sure those accesses are cut off. you've also got to remember that isis was fairly successful in taking over territory whether it was in syria and more recently in iraq where they overran banks and managed to capture a lot of money. then they ran their own economic industries so they were selling a lot of oil, producing about a billion dollars worth of revenue a year. that's been degraded quite significantly since because of coalition airstrikes. but they had this own ability to run their own economy quite successfully. >> do you think that defeating isis will require or should require american boots on the ground, american ground forces? >> look, i think that a lot of us are looking at this, it being
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sort of our fight, arab muslim challenge, trying to keep western boots off the ground is i think an essential part of how we move forward. i think this is why most of us are looking at it that way. at the end of the day -- >> why? do you think it would be a gift to isis to have americans? >> that could be an element of it, because i think sort of the perception they would use occupation as the wrong issue. they will obviously always use the idea of this is a crusade, which it is not. actually, this is our fight. at the same time when you look at syria and also iraq, it's the integrity and sovereignty of those countries. it has to be syrians dealing with their issues and iraq is dealing with theirs. it doesn't mean they can't be aided by air, possibly special forces types of operations in the future. those are things being looked at.
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what i think is more important to look at challenges and holistic approach, the challenging in 2015. the fixation today is on iraq and syria. we can't forget the problems of sinai. we can't forget the problems of libya. we must not forget the challenges to africa boko haram, shabaab and the problems these franchises, so to speak are presenting to asia. so like minded countries need to come together and bone up to how we can share responsibility, work together and deal with these problems in a holistic approach. >> do you think prime minister netanyahu has genuinely been making an effort to create a two-state solution to the palestinian problem? >> at this stage, nothing proactive will happen from either side unfortunately until we get passed the elections.
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my hope is that once we get past the elections, there is a serious commitment from both sides to move on the two-state solution. the reason is if this is our generational fight against these outlaws of islam, we have been talking about this global threat. what these people use as one of their main recruiting issues, rightly or wrongly, because the israelis will say these problems have nothing to do with us and get upset when i say all roads lead to jerusalem, they use this as an argument. we saw that the spike in recruiting in the summer when the wars happened and 700 women and children died as a result, foreign fighters flocked to syria and to iraq because of what they perceive as the justice of the palestinians and of jerusalem.
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so if we're going to have any chance of winning this generational fight, this third world war by other means, if we can't fix this israeli, palestinian problem, this ongoing situation that's been there for many decades, then we have at least one hand tied behind our backs if we're to deal with this. this is the challenge to both israeli and palestinian leadership. you have to understand this problem has become much bigger than ourselves. how are we going to be able to win this? how are we going to justify us muslims with the international community, fighting against these people if this thing keeps bubbling. that's the major challenge, i think. >> your majesty, pleasure to have you on. thank you so much.
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good morning and welcome to a "gps" newsbreak. i'm dana bash. fareed will be back in a few moments with much more from amman jordan on "gps" including an interview with the man who could disrupt israeli politics and israeli prime minister netanyahu's plans.
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first we get the latest news this morning. we start in moscow where organizers say more than 70,000 people showed up today to march in memory of boris nemtsov. he was one of president bush president's vladimir putin's fiercest rivals and critics. he was gunned down friday on a bridge in the shadow of the kremlin. let's go to where we have reporters standing by. we'll start with matthew chance. matthew, what can you tell us about the mood there at this point? is it more sadness or anger or both? >> i think it's a combination of both of those feelings. there's a lot of sadness about the fact that boris nemtsov one of the country's most prominent opposition figures has been gunned down so ruthlessly on the bridge, as you say, a short distance from the kremlin. you can see traffic is back here now. just about an hour ago there were thousands of people who turned out to pay their respects, to express their
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sadness but also their anger at the direction which russia has turned with the killing of boris nemtsov. one of the signs that struck me, propaganda kills, one of the slogans brandished on signs. a reference to this idea that russia has become a place where if you're opposed to the kremlin, if you reject what the kremlin says, you become an enemy of the state. that's something that's been actively propagated by the governments of this country. it's within that context that boris nemtskov was killed. that's what the people who came to this rally were concerned about. dana? >> what do we know about the suspect or possible suspect. authorities, apparently have a digital sketch. can you give us any more information about that? >> reporter: yeah. a digital sketch. it's pretty vague.
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there's some vague description put out by the police. they are looking for somebody who is between 170 and 176 centimeters tall, things like that. i'm not clear it's going to be the kind of description that is going to lead to a conviction necessarily in this case. that's one of the big concerns here, too. russia, even though it says it's going to bring the culprits to justice in this killing, it's got a very patchy record, indeed, in solving these kinds of political killings. the killers back in 2006 of a prominent journalist, who was a fierce critic of the kremlin. he has been sent to prison but the person that ordered the killing has not been found. so russia has a very patchy record. it is a great deal of scepticism amongst ordinary russians that it's going to be any different this time.
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>> matthew, thank you so much. this is certainly a case where you think you're watching some kind of thriller. unfortunately it isn't, it's reality. thank you. we're going to go on to other news. yesterday venezuelan president declared authorities have arrested an unspecified number of americans, including an american pilot, for espionage. maduro claimed united states backed a coup plot against him. the u.s. denied it but the president also announced several high-profile u.s. officials including george w. bush and former vice president dick cheney would be banned from venezuela. that's all the time we have for this cut-in. i'm dana bash. this has been "gps" and a news update. fareed will be back in just a minute from ahman, jordan. he'll have a man that might be israeli prime minister netanyahu's political nightmare. it's not president obama but herzog. isaac herzog, you're going to
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welcome back to "gps" from amman, jordan. on tuesday prime minister benjamin netanyahu will address the united states congress to warn it directly of the iranian nuclear threat. it's a move security adviser susan rice called destructive to the fabric of the relationship between the two allies. two weeks later israel will hold national elections. labor party chairman and leader of the opposition isaac herzog has emerged as chief rival for the job. a poll this week had the two parties tied for the top number of seats in the new parliament. he joined me from tel aviv. mr. herzog, pleasure to have you on. >> pleasure to be with you, fareed. >> this week you said prime minister netanyahu's decision to speak to the united states
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congress two weeks before the election, without informing the white house, was political spin. what did you mean by that? >> let me make it clear to the american public and to our viewers that there is no difference in israel as to the strategic threat that emanates from the iranian nuclear program. clearly no israeli leader, and me included, will ever accept a nuclear iran. however, the way to deal with it in my mind should be different. and i think netanyahu's speech in congress is a mistake. need to work together intimately with those negotiating with the international agreement with iran and make sure that this agreement is ironclad on delivery, namely there will never be an iranian nuclear bomb. when arguments emanate, such as the arguments surrounding the speech of netanyahu in congress,
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there are questions that are raised. there is daylight between us and the administration and that's not good. >> and you would not have gone? had you been prime minister you would not have accepted the invitation to speak to congress two weeks before the election? >> i would make sure that nothing of this sort would be viewed as partisan in any way. the united states was always strategic for us, was never partisan. israel knew how to work the floor both sides and keep unique relations with both parties. i definitely believe that it is a mistake to present an elected official in the united states with a question whether he prefers the white house or prefers israel. it shouldn't be a question. we have common grounds. you know, we share the same objective of making sure that iran won't have nuclear weapons. iran is a rogue state, a dangerous state. iran spreads hatred all over the world.
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iran should be demanded by the international community in these negotiations to make it clear it accepts israel as part of the family of nations rather than calling for its eradication. these are the issues we should be talking about. we should define intimately between the administrations what is exactly a bad deal. the president himself said rightly so, a bad deal is no deal. >> israeli ngo has released a report there has been a 40% rise in settlement activity construction in the west bank since last year. a lot of people believe at this point a two-state solution is really going to be very, very difficult. do you believe if you were prime minister that there is an actual path to a two-state solution and what is it? >> it's materialistic. i don't agree with all these opinions.
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i think that it is viable. however, right now our relationship with the palestinians is at a dead-end. it's actually one of the worst periods in the relationship. the palestinians opted for unilateralism. they have come forward with unilateral steps both to the security council as well as going to the international criminal court against our soldiers who have protected our nation against palestinian terror from hamas. we will stop the unnaturalit lateral action with the palestinians. i will try to reunite the israelis and palestinians. and trying our best again. not give up , but try our best again. >> what do you think about the
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united states awarding damages against the palestinian authority. if you are trying to make peace, is that something that is not going to help if you're a partner? or how do you view it. >> first and foremost we need to negotiate. that's what we need to do. we need to talk to each other. i have met prime minister abbecauseabbas in the last couple of years. i actually asked him, zubldo you believe there will come a day when there would be a relationship with israeli leaders? i will say to our viewers, first and foremost we need to built trust with our neighbors. not to give up try, i'm not naive, i think that it will be much more difficult to start again, but we should start again. >> what would be the biggest
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difference mr. hertzog between you being prime minister and abbas being prime minister a month from now? >> there are many differences, first of all, internally i offer a totally different socioeconomic platform that strengthens and empowers the people which returns money to them which has a better division of income in our note and gives them hope. and secondly i want to bring hope to our people to my people as well as to our neighbors. i believe that in our region everybody ought to lead quiet, tranquil and successful life. we have to do whatever we can to give hope to our childrened and to the next generations, and i will try my best i will try again, i will talk to the region. israel should be part of that coalition which fights extremism
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and works together towards peace and works together towards stability in the middle east. >> pleasant to have you on. >> thank you, fareed. >> that was israel's labor party leader isaac hertzog. we asked prime minister abbas to appear but he declined our invitation. the longest journey was completed this week we'll tell you where it was and why.
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this week the federal communications commission voted to adopt strong net neutrally rules which would prevent certain -- potentially charging for preferential service. which brings me to my question. where does the united states rank globally in terms of broad band speed, is it second? ninth, 15th or 27th? stay tune and we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's book of the week
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is called "disgraced." it's about the slaughter in islam between radicals and moderates. it's a riveting production and if you're not in new york you can buy the book and use your imagination. it won the pulitzer prize. now for the last look, the world's lowngest rail journey was completed this week. a chinese commerce train finished the journey from china to madrid. that means it passed through no fewer than eight countries. the journey was more than 8,000 miles each way and each leg took roughly three weeks. to put that in perspective. the round trip distance is
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equivalent to traveling from los angeles to new york approximately 6 1/2 timings or from l.a. to sidney and back again. the direct link to the west has been called the 21st century silk road by chinese firms. it isn't just this isolated route. last year the chinese launched a fund that -- it's officially the year of the sheep, or by some translations the ram or the goat. but perhaps, the silk worm would be more appropriate. the correct answer to the gps challenge question is d, as of this friday the u.s. ranks 27th in broad band download speed, right behind hungary and bulgaria according to the latest information from internet analysts. not great considering as others have pointed out, americans pay a lot for their internet. according to new america, the
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majority of the united states internet customers pay more than their counter parts in europe and asia. thanks for being part of my program this week coming from amman, jordan. we'll see you next week in new york. happening right now in the newsroom. their signs read i will not be afraid, thousands take to the streets of moscow mourning the death of a critic of vlad mere putin. and three teenagers believed to be on their way to join ace sis. and in about three hours from now, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu touches down in the u.s. with his trip mired in controversy, will his speech the to congress backfire? you're live in the cnn newsroom.