tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 3, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PST
that is it for us tonight. i'm don lemon and thank you for watching. i will see you right back here tonight on cmn. the isis threat on ac360 starts right now. good evening. an isis 360 special report starts right now. a terror group that threatens to destroy the world. they have slaughtered thousands and taken hostages for ransom or simply to kill. they have sponsored jihad at home and abroad. jordan's king abdullah calls the fight against isis the third world war and whether that
assessment sounds right to you or a little bit much you will want to watch tonight as we explore the isis threat. the isis threat grew out of osama bin laden's threat. their cruelty was too much for them as they were led di al zarqawi. a few months later, they were rebranded as the islamic state in iraq a and in 2011 the group names abu bakr baghdadi as
the leader. his ambition spread beyond iraq to the chaos of syria, and al baghdadi changes the name again this time calling it the islamic state in iraq and syria and takes the first syrian city the and the black flag is now hanging in the eastern city of raqqa which is a strong thehold for the growing city. >> we are going to be successful there. >> president obama is asked about the threat in an interview in "the new yorker" in january of 2007 and he compares it to the junior anniversary ti team. and he says it is a as if the j.v. team puts on the laker's uniform, it does not make them kobe bryant. and then isis launches a massive offensive capturing large
swathes of land in iraq and ta takrit. and time and again, they rare seen running away by the tall ban as they flee in terror as the fighters approach. in a rare public message al baghdadi proclaims the new the ter roirritory as a caliphate with him as the head. isis is the most prolific group with recruitment with estimated 20,000 fighters joining their ranks. then in 2011 president obama showing videos of their attacks. and then isis releases a
beheading of a american journalist. >> our mission is clear to destroy isis. >> and the vision of an islamic state and apocalyptic battle p between these fighters who are inspiring attacks in countries outside of the battle zone. a lot to look at in the hour ahead, and joining us is fareed zakaria host of "fareed zakaria gps" and michael weiss from the daily beast and kareem barun is a book of "fighting fundamentalist isis." and graeme you say that this sis
a perversion of islam and you say it is a very primitive look. >> yes, they look at the islamic text of the koran and the hadith, and they have a literal interpretation of the text. >> and they are literal. >> yes, very extreme of the interpretation, and they do care about the texts, and they do have a collection of the scholars and not widely known scholars but people who look at the texts, and look at what happens because of the text. >> but people who are joining, they are not islamic scholars but people in street gangs. >> and yes, graeme's articles tell us who the true believers believe. and why is this catching on. and islamic ideology has been around for centuries, but why is
that catching on now? it seems two layers that are at operation. one is that a lot of the people feel dispossessed andssessed and the stagnant economies economies, and the middle east has 85% dictatorship, and by far the highest percentage in the world. and add to that something that the microstudies of the terrorists show even the isis rekrutment young men looking for adventure, and a cause larger than themselves and looking for adrenaline highs, and you put it together, and that seems to me that it is the recruiting tool. and the overlords have a grander vision, but the foot lords are coming in for a different version. >> and the man, so-called jihadi john from a relatively well-off family, and attended a prestigious university and you can't make the argument that he was dispossessed. >> well, it is not -- and if i
may, it is not about be being poor. there are young people who are often feeling that they rare in proe test of the war. when i grew up in india, that were a number of marxist radicals, and so some of them were poor and rich and educated, with but they believed that the world order was something that they wanted to oppose and fight it. >> so it is the latest iter ration of this? >> yes, it is the off of the shelf ideology for muslims right now. >> and there is a political element, too the, because isis is presenting themselves as the safeguards of the the sunni islam. and look at the region we toppled saddam and no coincidence that the upper echelon is baath party members, and -- >> not known for scholars. >> and in some cases went from the h military fatigues of drinking wine and smoking cigars, and now from the beards and the banner.
and look the last four years, bashar al assad, he had a serious propaganda goal to create the element of extreme element within syria, and if you look at what they were doing to sunnis, abasing them and makeing them commit sack relidge, it is the goal to commit extreme there. >> and it was to commit the arresting of children. >> yes, and the fighters were saying that we were drawn to the fight because we didn't want to see our co-members treated this way. >> and they are at the forefront of brutality in the region, and it is the hypocrisy that we have to go after. >> yes, and they don't believe, and a lot of people don't pay attention to the sunni/shia divide. >> and it is hugely important. and the point that michael is makeing is so important, because
we have to remember that al qaeda began as a grand global ideology and then picked grand goals to attack the america, and the grand saudi family. and so there was a narrow goal to dispossess the sunnis in iraq and in iraq they felt by sunni and in damascus the allowite and so it was a sectarian thing, and then they established the caliphate, and graeme's article does a great thing to make you realize that and then the goals were grander, and now they were at tracking people, but at heart, there is a sunni revolt dwapst the shia rule. >> and again, it to your point that a lot of the people in the west don't pay attention to the sunni and the shia divide and don't understand the difference, but it is essential, because isis does not view people from the, you know, the, that are not part and they don't view shias
as legitimate. >> no, they are the rejectionists, and if you see what al zarqawi a decade ago, the people most threatening to the project were the shia. >> and above christians and everybody else. >> yes, above the american, because he said that i will bleed the americans until they lead and then when they leave, i will face the shias, and so the strategy is to kill them the, and he fundamentally hated them. when he met osama bin laden and one thing to offend them is to go on and on about them, because osama bin laden's mother was shia, and so their retaliation against the sunnis will drive them further into the fold and by the way, this strategy is playing out to today. >> and this is the important issue is are the goals truly global or local? because in essence or at the core they seem to have local goals, but that i have layered
on the e global one, and a lot of the foreign fighters come for the global goal and they don't come because they want to save syria, but they are coming, because of the grand global crusade. >> and so whether or not the goals are global, the impact is global, and looking at africa, and nigeria and libya, you are seeing the groups signing up with isis, and in kazakhstan there are young people indoctrine nateing to them. >> and one of the thing thass that you wrote about is the caliphate which is central to isis which is not central to osama bin laden and he did not believe that the conditions were right for the caliphate, and so isis while the territory is the goals, and the layering of the international goal, it is service in ultimately the building of the cat -- to the caliphate. >> yes, and when it was
operating, it is a cellular underground model, and trying to fly planes into buildings in new york city but the caliphate, they were trying to draw the people in, and get them there to have the caliphate strengthened in situ and the outer boundaries. >> and for those who are at the boundaries, there are 200 million shia muslims around the world all of whom the isis believes could be killed, because they are all, the incorrect believers. >> and they are all heretics. >> they win because of the demographic, and the end game, as graeme pointed out, for zawahiri how do you take iraq if you are outnumbered? simply the mujahadine will overwhelm them and easier when the americans leave. so it is a apocalyptic struggle. so it is being out in baghdad and damascus. sglt and the end game as you wrote, it is really armageddon,
and the end result is the end times which they believe is near. >> yes and they have a end game which bin laden in a way had now, and apocalyptic belief is not uncommon in many religions, but what is distinct to isis relative to bin laden's view is that the apocalyptic end game is go g going to happen in a number of years and matter of years. >> and they believe that jesus plays a role. >> yes, particular battles in particular places, and ultimately coming down the jerusalem where jesus will return to save the remaining 5,000 fighters of the islamic state. >> and jesus will save the isis? >> yes, defeat ap tie -- anti-messiah figure. >> and yes, while that is the end game the temporal goals are important, too, and if you read the magazine of theirs what they are focusing on is the
caliphate, and the governance and taking the power and how the exercise the power. >> and it is quite clear that the el goals are often trumping the so-called religious ones. so they are going to the museum in iraq, and destroy to a few of the statues to show how islamic they are, and pure islam, you don't have any idol worship, but quietly, they are selling most of the others and they take the hostage hostages, but they want money for them, to make money. >> and yes, there is a lot more that we have to get to, and lot more talk including the rerecruitment. and another major offensive to take back the city of takrit, and how to defeat isis, and what that would mean, and if the kun kun -- people in the countries in the region can do it, and what role the united states should play, if any. with my android from tracfone, i can... order safety goggles. play music for seedlings. post science fair projects.
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today launched a major offensive aimed at taking back the city of tikrit. and whether on the ground or in the air, american forces are in the thick of it. back with fareed zakaria and joining in two individuals with experience mark hurtling and bob baer. in terms of the military situation, you don't think isis is as impressive as their early gains. >> i think what really stunned people and the reason that obama almost had to apologize for his jv team comment was that they took mosul and the second largest city in iraq. the gains weren't so much due to isis's strength but iraq's weakness. the sunnis who comprise the foot soldiers in iraq's army refused to fight, because they regarded certainly, the government in
baghdad, the iraqi government, as a shiite dick tatatorship, and between the two, they preferred isis. so they melted away, because they did not want to fight isis, and so it was that political problem that gave isis this huge military victory. >> but general, you were there and involved with iraqi forces. since the u.s. pulled out, essentially, you had fake battalions, phantom platoons that existed on paper in the iraqi army, but the money that was supposedly paid to them went to the generals in the iraqi army. >> correct. and i agree with fareed. this is an army that could fight. when we were there, they could fight. i've fought with them. but during that three-year period between the time oust forces left, mr. maliki took over, we saw some early indications of that even when i was there. when we conducted operations in mosul, mr. maliki was beginning to replace his generals. and we were seeing the kinds of people he was replacing them with. >> cronies. >> cronies.
no military experience, and being paid for positions that they just didn't know how to lead. and the soldiers can feel that. if you go into the situation where you are not paid and the people are threatening you shgs, and you have no leadership, you are going to be quitting your job, too, and especially if someone comes in to cut your head off. >> especially if your general has taken off. and leaves just low-level troops. six months later, with renewed american interest in retraining the iraqi forces, there's going to be, why are they going to be able to take tikrit? why would they take mosul? >> there is more of a threat. i think they see an internal threat to their nationalism. and they are beginning to see that the government in baghdad is now very interested in them. we're seeing
unni tribes. that never happened when i was there with mr. maliki. >> but we were talking about this sunni/shia divide. and that plays into this as well, not just the makeup of the military, but you have the shia militias backed by iran which have made many of the advances that have taken place over the past couple months. >> anderson, it's worse than that. it's come out that head of the kutz force. >> elite iranian forces. >> this is the same group that blew up the marines in '83, kidnapped one of my bosses in beirut, is really a bad guy, is in tikrit today, sort of managing the assault on the city. >> so what message does that send? >> exactly, saying look, this iran is essentially, has its proxies on the ground, and the sunnis are going to say, we're going to defend tikrit, and anbar province. and this is the shia/sunni
divide you were talking about, which is worsening by the day. >> if you're a sunni sitting in tikrit, and you suddenly see the iranian force, and you see this death squad coming in -- >> you are suspect. but i would contend that the shia/sunni divide is not what we're all making it. in that area of the country, in the north, there have been kurds, shias, sunnis, living together under saddam hussein for a very long time. it is not that much -- it would be the equivalent of saying your politics are different, your religion are different, but they now see a threat. and even though the iranians are now contributing to the fighting of isis there might be some contention and the sunni tribal members might be coming in and
the quds forces and it contributing to the good. >> let's see if this works out. i think you're right that that's the plan and the iraqi government has made some good steps. they are going to retake mosul as we understand it. there are about 2,000 isil fighters there. the iraqis are going to put somewhere in the range of 20,000 troops up against them. kurdish peshmerga, and a small number of american advisers, but they will have american drones, american air support, and the idea is to launch a genuinely iraqi response. not iranian -- and if that works, you know nothing succeeds like success in military affairs. >> can we take a look at takrit and you tell us why it is so important here. >> well shgs, it gets to what fareed is saying. everyone is focusing on the retaking of mosul, and the critical ti of takeity of taking a waiway the land of isis.
because that's what they desire. that's part of the caliphate, but we're going to see buildup. we've seen it already in samarra. a critically important shia city with a lot of sunnis there. >> not too far from baghdad. >> about halfway distant between tikrit and baghdad. after the iraqi forces take tikrit, the question is going to be, will they then take these others and go toward kirkuk? and i think they will. or will they continue to open up the supply lines to mosul. so they can have a direct link from baghdad to mosul. you can't go directly into mosul, because there has to be a campaign plan from baghdad to mosul with all of the places in between. the critical piece is when they turn to kirkuk. right between kirkuk and the other dot in the middle is a small town. that seems to be the coming, the operational capital of isis. they have moved some forces forward there. it was already a problematic area. it was a bad area when we were there. and what you'll see is continual action to drive isis out of territory, the retaking of ground. >> the key will be, will the
locals agree. >> that's the tribal groups. the bathi officers, and they're watching. >> why the u.s. towards the end was able to reverse a lot of the gains al qaeda had made is because of disenchantment by these tribal groups and payments made to the tribal groups. that was the sunni awakening or the tribal awakening. are we seeing any evidence that this disenchantment -- >> anderson, we are are talking to the sunni tribal groups approved by the al baddi government. the sunnis have to show abeyance to the shia government, and they're discredited. and we do not know what they're going to do when the army comes in. if they move in with the popular
militia militias the death cults, i think that it is going to be worse. >> can i complicate this picture even further? what we're looking at is a difficult but do-able military strategy. but this is iraq. syria is much more complicated, because you have literally hundreds of groups, and at the end of the day, if you battle isis, you are in effect strengthening the assad government. and that dilemma is -- >> for a lot of these groups target number one is bashar al assad. that's why they got involved in it. that's why they want to continue. >> syria's gone. it is not going to be coming back. that is my predik shunction. >> thank you all. up next, isis recruitment. you've heard a lot about it. what is the appeal? can it be stopped? and we're going to talk to a parent who's working to stop it. her own son went over to fight with isis and died doing it.
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fighting isis means something outside of the region. it is a mind share with sonsed on daughters at stake. drawn by propaganda videos. hundreds of young westerners have left their homes to join isis. this young man's mom remembers the phone calls home. >> i'd get so scared, because you'd tell me that you had to run because an airplane was coming in. it was flying low. when they flew low, they dropped bombs. and you ran with me still on the phone. and i couldn't stop talking to you. i didn't want to let go. it ate me up inside. >> her son had initially told her that he'd gone overseas to study arabic. he'd actually gone to syria. that clip is from "extreme dialog."
one of two extreme organizations that she now works with. she join s uss us now. thank you for being with us. i'm so sorry for your loss. >> thank you. >> i think a lot of people hear about families where a child has gone off to fight, and it becomes radicalized and thinks, how did that happen? how did a parent not know. can you talk a little bit about what it was like for you? >> back then, i mean, when everything started happening was 2011. so in north america, we didn't really know that there was a really an issue going on. now you can see the signs, just by being aware, educating parents, change in behavior, attitude, kind of that restlessness, that agitation. you can feel and see, cutting off from friends, changing their behavior, more reserved, more private. >> your son converted to islam and at first you saw a positive change. >> exactly. he converted in 2008, and it was
fantastic a positive change for him. so these changes didn't start happening until three years later. >> was it somebody who reached out to him? videos he was watching online, a combination? >> it's a combination effort for him. and the other thing he also had was a study group. so these other boys that were also radicalized, looking on the internet have been introduced to it from somebody within the city. they were all gathering together to pray and strengthen that belief. >> what do you think for your son was the appeal of going to a place where, syria, he clearly had seen the videos, clearly knew what was happening there. >> the big thing for him, when i finally got ahold of him once he crossed the border. >> he told you he was going to egypt to study arabic. >> exactly. i didn't even know. i believed when i first started to talk to him that that is where he was. i briefed that's where he was.
until he went offer the radar for a month. and our security intelligence showed up. at that time, when he finally reached out to me a month later, that's when he indicated to me that he'd gone over to help with women and children that were being tortured, raped, murdered and to fight against bashar al-assad. and if you look at the propaganda out there that we don't see on the media, it's really compelling, and there's strong messages that are grabbing these kids, saying you need to do something. you need to act now. and all these other stories in the media are a lie. they're making us look bad. >> graeme one of the things that you wrote was saying that recruiters will say, that this is the most exciting movie that you can be a part of. >> yes, they will say that this is the biggest struggle that the world has ever seen. so, if you're bored at home, if there's something, some kind of meaning that you're missing at home, then you can join up in a struggle of proportions that you couldn't even imagine before you were told about the details of this kind of fight. >> so how does anyone counter that? that's a powerful message. >> one of the critical things we need to do, and this goes back to what you said influenced your son, is to get out the stories
of the muslim victims of terrorism, and groups like isis and if you have been to the cemetery and seen the elderly muslim women praying for their slain children. this story that somehow you go off and join jihad and you're going to be defending muslims is completely exposed. >> because you're killing muslims. that's the number one target is muslims who they believe are not muslim enough, not following the proper path. >> absolutely. the vast majority of jihadist groups have been muslims and people of muslim heritage. but we don't see their faces. we don't talk about those victims or people like the heroic iraqi woman lawyer who was executed by isis in mosul in september after being tortured for four days because of her opposition to their barbarity. we need to tell those stories so that young muslims and people going to help by joining jihad will find other ways of doing
that will know that it sis absolutely the wrong path. >> isis has its own ideological machine that kicks into gear with these counter messages are given, and they point out that these people are not muslims in their eyes. of course anyone else would say that these people are muslims. but they would say that the people fighting against isis are not muslims at all. >> do you have to defeat in the conflict to end the appeal? >> you have to end the conflict first. because if you're a sunni muslim, and you don't get into the nuances of the religion or the history of the rest of it, you have to look at sunni islam as under threat. you look at yemen. you have a shia government taken over. you have a shia government in baghdad and you vhave the hezbollah which is the effective government in lebanon, and when you have the identity of sunni islam, islam, and the pure interpretation of the faith, you are under the threat, and you
are obligated to defend islam. and this is, the message is very simple, very hard to combat. and in fact, sunni islam has failed with these corrupt governments in saudi arabia with the invasion of iraq in 2003. and this message is very powerful, especially for kids in the west who can't identify with, you know, the consumerism and the rest of it and don't have a future and this is the only thing they can identify with and to stop that message is almost impossible. and by the way, these communities, i've spent a lot of time in the prisons speaking to them and they sound very reasonable within their own logic. >> but they can reason bring be talking about beheading someone. >> they turn the switch, to defend islam we have to kill people like us. the cue -- the kufar. >> is there something about the simplicity of the message? i don't know if purity is the word, but that there is right and wrong. black and white.
>> and you're rewarded in the hereafter. forget the 72 virgins. that's not the point. the point is for eternity you're we warded. if i'm going to offer you eternity and you really believe it. >> i can imagine when you were talk g talking to your child, and once you knew that he was in syria, did you feel like there was any kind of argument that you could make that would reach him? >> i tried in the beginning, but it was so difficult because he was already geographically to far away. i tried using verses in the koran, and he believed so much in what he was doing that he was there. he to help these people. it was a desperation, that it was really difficult to get do him. then over a period of time, he started to change. and withdraw even further, and you could see that he was getting colder, colder, and more distant, but in this type of environment, you're going to change. so it was very difficult.
>> it's the violence, the power vacuum and the awful violence in the middle east that's so hard for us to understand which just entrenches this attitude. as long as these conflicts continue on, we're going to have the phenomenon of the islamic state, it's going to be one form or another. it's going to appear here and there. >> i think it's also the power of extremist ideology. and one of the key things is to defeat and discredit that ideology. in every way possible. and one thing that we need to do is to support the family groups like yours and the the somali education center in minneapolis that was started by a man whose nephew and his 17-year-old nephew was recruit eded by al shabaab and he didn't know anything about him. but he was killed by them when he tried to come home. and now his uncle campaigns
against them with very few resources, and we need to support him. >> and your message is to parents out there, you have to talk to your kids, just like you do about drugs. >> we do. we have the sex education, drug education. why is there such a big stigma? this is something we need to arm them with as well. by keeping it in and not sharing it, you're leaving it to anybody else to do instead. >> and your son died in aleppo? >> he was just outside aleppo in an isis-controlled town. >> i am sorry for your loss and i appreciate the work that you're doing. we're going to continue our discussion. when we come back, we're going to take a short break. just ahead, digging deeper on the money angle. this is what isis wants the world to see. it's not the whole story. isis is raising buckets of money on the black market selling other antiquities. oil, of course, another source of income. we're going to follow the money when we come back.
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threat. one of the latest propaganda videos released shows militants destroying ancient artifacts. vital pieces of the historical record wiped out. isis intends to send a message with these images, but at the same time they are smashing the artifacts, they are profiting from other ancient artifacts, selling them on the black market for cash. here's what king abdullah told fareed zakaria. >> isis was fairly successful in taking over territory in syria or iraq where they overran banks and managed actually to capture a lot of money. then they ran their own economic industry, so they were selling a lot of oil, producing about $1 billion worth of revenue per year. that's been degraded because of coalition air strikes. but they had their own ability
to run their own economy quite successfully. >> joining me is michael weiss and bob baer. so talk a little bit about how else they fund themselves. >> as you mention, they sell the artifacts on the black market. they have an improvisational system for justifying which artifacts should be smashed and which should be sold. if anything is worshipped, pre-islamic gods, those get smashed. meso poepotamian trinkets get sold. >> they can justify this. >> again, the messianic islamism meets pragmatism when it has to. they sell oil. they sell oil to smugglers at the turkish border. >> so assad who's fighting them, who's under threat from them, he's not really fighting them. >> even the regime says we don't make a priority in fighting isis.
great propaganda look the head-loping group that is controlling one-third of our country. >> so this group who supposedly wants to overthrow assad, they're not above selling oil to him. >> it's not like there's a command center commanding what isis does. >> it's an extreme version of something arab dictators have done, which is to say to the world and the population, it's me or the jihadists. >> or the flood. >> if you look at what the egyptian general, general sissi is doing, effectively, no opposition. i'm going to jail everybody, kill others. so i'm the pillar of stability, and if you want to e bet on what is going to be coming afterwards you can bet it on it. >> so you're saying isis helps bashar al assad. >> it gives the pop racial of -- population of syria a stark
choice. to give the population of syria a stark choice between a good liberal democratic opposition and assad. >> it also verifies the message assad was giving from the beginning, which is these are terrorists. >> look what you got. his dad in 1982 said look, these people are all crazy, pull the artillery round, knock it down. it's either me or this islamic chaos. >> it's also important to point out, they also make money from european countries which are paying for kidnapping ransoms. >> eu countries have paid in the hundreds of millions, which is to get aide workers and journalists back. which mean ss that we are negotiating with terrorists, maybe not the united states but european countries have. >> the french especially. >> the french. >> and that's what we've heard from a lot of the families of americans, they see their fellow captives being ransomed back to european countries. >> terrain is an integral component. the more territory they take over, the more people they lord it over, the more they raise in taxation. if you're a farmer, and you have 100 head of sheep, isis can say give me five, give me ten.
so charging taxes of the people they rule and that is perfectly legal. >> it's called zacat. >> and if you're an a non-muslim, it's called jazir. >> there's money coming from the uae. and a lot of it from the states but mostly the money coming from the individuals, but how do you stop it since it was all are from a great unknown, but the nice thing about isis is that we understand the economics of isis, and there are ways to stop it, you bomb the refineries and so they try to sell the unrefin unrefined crude, and you bomb the pipelines, and they can't do that and you try to disrupt the the -- >> are there international benefactors? state individuals? >> saudi arabia.
>> there are individuals. but the big money as the king of jordan said, the big money is selling oil, now unrefined crude, to make something like $1 million a day doing that. the kind of things michael was talking about. they charge for truck when is they pass by. but all these are things we know how to degrade those capabilities. we didn't know, how do you stop some saudi sheikh from quietly sending money to osama bin laden. >> everyone stick around, because i am going to tauklk to those who live under isis and live under the home base of isis and i want to get his take. huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know pinocchio was a bad motivational speaker? i look around this room and i see nothing but untapped potential. you have potential. you have...oh boy.
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a regular occurrence. abu rubrahim which is a name that is not his real name since he asked to be remaining anonymous joins us now from phone tonight from syria. thank you for speaking with us. can you describe for us what daily life is like under isis rule? >> caller: thank you. yes, the life under the city of raqqah is very difficult. it's the life of the people of raqqah because there's two different lives for the life inside the city. for the people, there is very, very strong rules for the isis, for all the womans must put veil. and if she don't put veil, she is punished for that. there is taxes on the people,
and every market inside of the city 1,500 syrian pound. even taxes on the -- on the electricity. there is a lot of executions. there is a lot of crucifixions. if you say anything against isis, you will be killed for that. it's very difficult to live under raqqah city. if you are -- without the knowledge of isis, they will kill you for that. anyone speaking against them or taking photos or videos they will say perhaps you are a spy for the west. they will kill you for that. so if you are making anything that isis don't want to show to the world or not want to do it, they will kill you for that. also the people are really suffering, because isis close all the organization that gives aid for the people. the hospital situation are very bad. i document more than 86 people dying because there is no device for kidney washing. i document more than 278 cases for forcing girls to marriage.
isis fighters most of them under age 18. there is a lot of executions we document, in the last three months, more of them. 57 different executions. you will be executed for any thing they will do it. >> i have a number of guests who want to ask you questions, quickly. >> i read your piece in "the guardian", a week ago. you said that the isis control over raqqah is still pretty solid. there's no sign they are losing their grip and is that still the case today, or are they beginning to e erode the control of the city? >> caller: yes, that's, the case is still like that. because yes, i know that the air strike, they're killing some of them, but, you know, because the isis make in raqqah city like a big prison. they do not allow people unless over 45 years old to leave the city. most people are prisoners. so most of them are between the civilians and the neighborhoods.
so it's very difficult to defeat them. if you want to defeat them, you must send troops on the ground. and i'm sure that most of the west and europe don't want to send troops on the ground because it will be a big problem, a lot of blood, massacres. if there are air strikes within the city, a lot of civilians will die. >> i want to get one more question. >> this is fareed zakaria. what are the isis guys like? the young men who are joining up, are they very religious? are they young men who enjoy the power? how would you describe them? >> caller: i think most of them are isis are laughing. because when they are publishing their propaganda video they think, in raqqah city is like a paradise, an islamic caliphate and stuff like that. but when they enter and the
islamic state that they're a terrorist group, they're just killing civilians, chasing womans and killing innocent people, so they will shot in the real life, what's going on in raqqah city for real, but if they want, the defections from islamic city, it's their problem because isis will take their passports. from the first day, when they will go into the city, so like i said before to the cnn, the problem is not how to get to the islamic state or to raqqah city. the problem how to get out, if you want to defections. so most of these guys or these young guys, i think isis laughing at them. the real islamic state or the real caliphate, because they seeing the womans and the rape. the guys and the boys dying if
in syria. so they are coming -- >> a lot different than they are seeing in the propaganda videos. we're out of time. we appreciate you talking to us. we want to thank all of our panelists. that does it for this edition of "360." clear deal with iran. and racist e-mails and a pattern of discrimination against blacks. the federal investigation blasts the ferguson, missouri police department. and executions now imminent in indonesia. i'm zain asher. >> and i'm john vause. this is cnn newsroom. great to have you with us. the israeli prime minister