tv CNN Newsroom With Fredricka Whitfield CNN March 28, 2015 8:00am-12:01pm PDT
9525. cnn can now confirm the identity of the captain of the doomed flight. it was patrick sanden himondenheimer who tried to desperately to get back into the cockpit but to no avail. recovery teams are battleing treacherous terrain and high winds. the weather is more favorable today and officials say they are making some progress. also continuing today, the search for the critical second black box which contains the flight's data recorder. and prosecutors have been sifting through the apartment of co-pilot andreas lubitz. they're trying to find out why he apparently brought the plane down deliberately killing all 150 people on board. we go to germany right now where cnn's senior international correspondent frederik pleitgen is tracking all of the newest information. what more do we know about the captain, patrick sondenheimer? >> reporter: well it was confirmed to cnn by one of his
relatives who one of our crews met outside a residential building here that in fact patrick was the man who was steering that plane. patrick sondenheimer. we've known from lufthansa that he was a captain who had been flying with the airline both lufthansa and germanwings as well as another german airline called condor for ten years. he had 6,000 flying hours. by all means a very very experienced pie lt. he was also the one who tried to get back into the cockpit, first knocking a little bit normally obviously and then trying to kick the door down in the end as the plane descended down there. so we know his identity now. we have talked to his relatives, but they at this point say they are not comfortable speaking in front of the camera because, of course they are still in a state of grief, fredricka. >> and what about those who knew, the co-pilot particularly the girlfriend who has been quoted in a german newspaper there in interviews.
what more is being said? >> reporter: well they're trying to piece together a mosaic of what this person was like and what might have driven him to do what he apparently did, which is of course fly that plane into the side of a mountain and the largest tabloid here in germany has an interview with an ex-girlfriend of his. she claims that she was together with lubitz for about five months last year. she describes him as someone who needed a lot of attention, who was very sensitive, someone who could also be quite flattering to her, who often gave her flours. she apparently was a flight attendant on germanwings as well but also someone with a very dark side she said. someone who would become erratic, someone who often fought with her, who became very angry when he spoke about the company and someone who had very bad dreams. now, of course it's unclear what all of this will mean to the investigation but it's certainly something where they're trying to piece together a profile of this person to try to determine why he did what he
did, fredricka. >> any more about the doctor who wrote the note that investigators say they found a torn up note that said he was unfit to work. any more from the doctor even? >> reporter: well the doctor is certainly someone that authorities are speaking to right now. it's interesting because "the new york times" just a couple minutes ago came out with a new report saying that they have information that apparently lubitz was getting treatment for some sort of eye problem that might have been a jeopardy to his flying career. they say they have that from two sources and it's interesting because we've been speaking to the university clinic in dusseldorf and they've acknowledged that lubitz went there twice this year to get diagnostics, and they said it was not for depression related issues. it's still unclear at this point in time but certainly the doctor that treated lubitz is someone that the authorities will very much be speaking to at this point in time. it's interesting because the medical records that were found
inside lubitz's apartment indicated he had been getting treatment for an ailment for quite a while. this was an ongoing process and he'd already had several of these sick notes that said he was unfit to go to work which, of course, for a pilot means he is unfit to fly and that he destroyed several of those, of course tearing some of them up. they were later found in that apartment. the prosecutor here in germany has not said what kind of an ailment lubitz had, whether it was a depression whether it was maybe something with his eyes or some sort of other physical ailment. we're still trying to find out more official information from the authorities, but certainly it appears as though it might have been multiple things he was suffering from. there are outlets reporting he suffered from ge pregnancy redepression issued in the past as well. >> thank you. keep us posted. how will investigators piece together all this investigation particularly about the co-pilot's history? let's bring in our panel right now. peter goelz is a cnn aviation analyst.
jonathan gilliam is a former air martial. mary ann tool is a special agent and les abend is a contributing editor of "flying" mag zenazine. good to see all of you. peter, you first. we know this was this note investigators found and said he was -- lubitz was unfit to work. what are the medical or maybe even mental conditions that would cancel out someone's ability to fly a plane? >> well there's a wide variety of conditions or situations which would disqualify somebody from flying. for instance the faa has a list of knockout medications that if you're taking one of these medications you may not fly a commercial airplane. there are medical conditions such as diabetes that the united
states views as a nonstarter. pilots cannot be taking insulin and have certain stage diabetes. so there's a wide variety of both illnesses and pharmaceuticals that would prevent you from getting behind -- getting into the cockpit. >> and then when we hear les, that possibly at least according to "the new york times" times", that there may have been some eye treatment that this co-pilot may have recently sought, what kind of eye problems perhaps would fall into the category of being simply unfit to work? >> well i mean there's certain vision standards we have. we have to be at least in the united states we have to have it correctable to 20/20, but it goes beyond that. we have to understand that most of the faa limitation that is keep us from flying are self disclosure things things as simple as a common cold. we self disclose i'm not good enough to fly.
when this gentleman allegedly went to a doctor for a vision issue, this was just a standard medical doctor for that particular issue. he is not required to disclose that to their version of the faa nor is the pilot, in this particular case the co-pilot required to disclose that. if it was a medical examiner specifically under the guise of in our country the faa, that would have to be disclosed if it has the potential for disqualifying for flight. >> and then mary so much is trying to be uncovered about who he was by talking to his girlfriend according to a german newspaper, perhaps even his family members would be able to reveal a bit more about his behavior but aside from the medical conditions that there is a track record there will be doctors who will be able to uncover that. what perhaps observations might this airline be responsible for in your view in observing whether he was someone to be trusted in the cockpit?
>> well often times people that have mental health issues are really able to present quite well and present quite normally so just visually looking at someone or even having a conversation if they have good impression management skills if they know hey, i have got to come across as really normal and plugged in they can do that and that's why self reported information can be so unreliable. to me what's so interesting here is if this person was so attached to this job, he voluntarily went to these doctors. most often you see -- or very often you see people with mental health issues really stay away from doctors because they're afraid of what they'll hear so that tells me this individual this co-pilot did not anticipate the medical findings that evidence going to receive. >> and, jonathan while this may have been the practice to self report i think any layman would begin to think, well if you feel like you have a condition
that is going to mean that you can no longer put food on the table, you won't draw an income from this particular profession then you're not going to report that information. does it seem maybe that it turns to the culpability of an airplane or even an industry to allow that kind of routine to be in place? >> well as mary can tell you in the federal government, you know, we're watched heavily in everything we do so it's more than just self reporting. and self reporting, i guess it does play a part in certain things but when you're talking about depression or you're talking about somebody who has suicidal tendencies and we have to look at these two different things, you know somebody who is depressed will typically isolate themselves if they're going to commit suicide. somebody who has something going on inside the exterior in their family where they're having a problem with their job they will a lot of times end up acting out and taking other people with
them. and these are, as mary said these are things you may not be able to catch if you're trying to find it and it's not things people are going to want to report as well and i know from being a s.e.a.l. or being in the federal government you don't want to report illnesses a lot of the times because you may get taken off of something. >> peter, it would seem there are an awful lot of people he would come into contact with at lufthansa or germanwings, people who would be able to make their observations or might this be the case that he has this incredible ability to kind of mask his condition or mask his unfitness to work? >> well the whole issue of voluntary reporting is going to be re-examined i think because of this accident but you're right. mary helenellen hit it these are guy that is can present well and particularly if whatever malady he was facing was a career-ender particularly to a
career that he had wanted his whole life it's really a very difficult thing to come to terms with that. but i think the whole issue of how do you self report a problem and not have it be a strike against you in your career is very challenging, and so far we have very superficial responses to that. >> okay. all right. we're going to talk with all of you later. i want to talk more about how standard is that self reporting. is that something that is commonly practiced here in the u.s. or is that something that's respected by the aviation community worldwide. peter goelz, jonathan gilliam, mary ellen, les, thanks to all of you. also still ahead, a memorial service brings families close to the site of that tragic crash. and later we will be answering questions you have about the crash. you can submit them on twitter at #germanwingsqs@cnn.
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book now at choicehotels.com the crash of flight 9525 has taken a toll and the families of the victims, relatives, and friends of the deceased gathered today in an area near the site where there loved ones died. they held prayers. there is a village there serving as a staging post for the recovery operation. loved ones brought flowers and pictures as they mourn the lives lost. cnn's karl penhaul joins us from the crash site. you made your way to the crash site which we understand the terrain is very treacherous.
did you it on foot right? tell us how difficult that was. >> reporter: that's right, fredricka, and the reason we did it was we thought it was so important to get to an area close to the crash site obviously without trampling on a crime scene. but to take a look and to try to understand a little bit better why this operation is so treacherous and why the recovery both of human remains and also fragments of the plane could take days or even weeks according to the investigate guy fors. it was you have to going. we did get there. let's take a look at what we found. swinging on a wire they recover the remains. hundreds of feet below emergency crews cling to the mountainside just so they don't fall. investigators say the speed of the crash pulverized the plane and passengers. the recovery operation they say is bit by bit, bag by bag.
you can just pick out the small red flags rescuers dig into the earth when they discover new fragments. and that looks like a scorch march. the french prosecutor said the plane hit the mountain bounced off, and then disintegrated. it's a tough hike through rugged mountains and steve valleys. still a little while before dawn but we're going toward a trail head. in order to understand why some rescuers describe this as their biggest ever challenge, we try to get closer to the crash zone. there was a little frost this morning. now the sun is coming down certainly no sign of snow just yet. few people accept except shepherds live up here. conditions are too inhospitable. >> get getting up here is literally hanging onto tree roots and grass. you can see why they're going to
have to fly anything out of that crash site by helicopter. the whir of rotor blades helps us pinpoint the site. we see forensic teams working with expert mountain yearseers to keep them safe. high winds make flying treacherous. saying farewell is never easy but perhaps those grieving could find a little consolation amid these crags, peace of the running water, peace of snow-capped peaks, peace to loved ones lost. i can understand that relatives may feel that as this recovery operation drags on that they could get a little frustrated at the pace of it but having seen that work yesterday, if it is any consolation to them the rescue workers are doing their damnedest to get the human
remains outs and get them ready for burial. it almost appears at some stages the forensic investigators are clinging on with their fingertips to that mountainside so they don't fall off. the helicopter pilots as well. my colleague nic robertson had been talking to one this morning, and he said when his helicopter was getting buffeted by winds so hard yesterday as he overflew those gullies and ravines ravines, he looked away from his control panel and looked at the birds there and a piece of string he had hanging in the cockpit really to get his bearings and judge the winds by his natural surroundings. they really are trying hard to do what is right, fredricka. >> my goodness, it's a her couleeian couleeian task. straight ahead, more on the crash in the alps and this coming up. >> you saved my life. >> new reaction from amanda knox as she is cleared in the murder of her college roommate. we'll show you more next.
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being held just north of geneva. let's go live to cnn global affairs correspondent elise labott who is at the talks in switzerland. it's crunch time but what are the hangups? >> reporter: well, fred there was a lot of optimism coming into these talks when they started on thursday but it's getting down to the wire ahead of that tuesday deadline for a political framework and i'm being told by diplomats here at the talks that iran is really playing hardball particularly on some key issues such as the pace of sanctions that would be lift ed lifted against iran once the deal is in effect and also the amount of advanced technology research iran would be able to do on nuclear technology for the duration of the deal. iran wants the sanctions lifted right away day one. international community saying listen you need to comply with parts of the deal and the sanctions will be lifted as they comply and on the research iran wants to continue to be able to do advanced nuclear research
while this deal is in effect. again, the international community is saying you need to comply with your international obligations and then we'll talk about that research fred. >> and is tuesday still the deadline or is there some wiggle room here? >> reporter: i think there's a little bit of wiggle room, there could be a day or two but the march 31st deadline is important really to the united states and iran. for iran the iranian foreign minister wants to go back to the iranian people and say there's a path ahead for lifting sanctions which is really why they're in the talks. and for the united states the administration wants to fend off congress. lawmakers are threatening to impose new sanctions against iran in april which could really scuttle chances for a full accord at the end of june. so i think both sides really see this as a critical milestone. if if there's a day or two they need but they need to show the chance for a full deal to make sure the hardliners at home and
in iran are put in their box a little bit, fred. >> elise labott thank you so much. appreciate it. amanda knox says she's glad to have her life back now now that her eight-year legal battle is over. italy's supreme court overturned her murder conviction clearing her in the death of her college roommate. in 2007 knox was studying abroad in italy when police found her roommate meredith kercher slashed at the throat. knox and her boyfriend, rafael sollecito initially spent four years in italian prison. they were acquitted and knox returned home to seattle. they were retried and found guilty again in 2013. knox was sentenced to 28 1/2 years in absentia. she said she would never willingly go back to italy and now she's expressing her gratitude at this latest court decision. >> well i'd prefer not to answer questions. i just wanted to say that i'm
incredibly grateful for what has happened for the justice i have received for the support that i have had from everyone from my family from my friends, to strangers, to people like you. you saved my life and i'm so grateful and i'm so grateful to have my life back. thank you. and that's all i can say. right now i'm still absorbing what all of this means, and what comes to mind is my gratitude for the life that's been given to me. >> what does the future hold for you now? >> i don't know. i'm still absorbing the present moment which is full of joy. thank you. >> thank you so much.
>> you know other than again we're so grateful. i mean i know you're all here but we really just need time as a family to kind of digest and, again, so thankful that everything is finally right. [ inaudible question ] >> meredith was my friend and it's -- she deserved so much in this life. i'm the lucky one. so thank you. >> we really can't do that now. thank you so much. >> knox's former boyfriend was also cleared friday night. as flight 9525 plummeted toward the ground it appears co-pilot andreas lubitz sat
quietly at the controls. the cockpit door fortified for security kept the pilot from getting back in the captain. cnn's kyung lah is inside a flight simulator with a look at how the final moments might have played out. >> reporter: fredricka, we are inside a flight simulator with pilot buck rodgers who is taking us through maneuvers. we're talking safety. that's coming up in a live report. in just this one moment, your baby is getting even more than clean. the scent, the lather, even the tiny bubbles of a johnson's® bath are helping to enhance the experience. the touch of your hands is stimulating her senses. nurturing her mind. and helping her development. so why just clean your baby when you can give her... so much more™? johnson's®. so much more™.
good morning again, everyone. thanks so much for joining me. a major new development in the crash of germanwings flight 9525. we're now learning the name of the plane's captain. a relative confirms his identity as patrick sondenheimer the pilot who officials say can be heard on the voice recorder trying to bang down the locked cockpit door. investigators are trying to
determine what may have driven the co-pilot andreas lubitz to crash the plane into the french alps. officials say they found a ripped up doctor's note in lubitz's apartment declaring him unfit to work. "the wall street journal" and "new york times" claim lubitz had a mental illness he kept secret in the airline. "the new york times" reporting he sought treatment for vision problems before the crash. crews rushing to recover the remains of the victims say they are making some progress and the weather at the crash site is now improving. so as the jet plummeted towards the ground the only person capable of reversing course was the same man who apparently programmed the deadly descent co-pilot andreas lubitz. prosecutors say he was alone in the cockpit. european regulators are now recommending that at least two crew members be in the cockpit at all times. cnn's kyung lah is live inside a flight simulator. what is the feeling among pilots
about how crew members can help each other avert disasters? >> reporter: well you touched on it fredricka. you're talking about two-person rule. we've been talking about it with pilot buck rodger. we were in an a-320 simulator this morning. how critical is that two-person rule? >> well the two-person rule really went into effect after 9/11 in the u.s. so we -- tsa has mandated all u.s. carriers to have a two-person rule and what that means is when somebody leaves the cockpit, another crew member comes in so there's always two people in the cockpit. it's for safety. if the pilot were to become incapacitated, the flight attendant would be there to open the door to allow the other crew member back into the cockpit. it's also there to verify who is coming back into the cockpit to make sure that it's the right person. >> reporter: but being alone, this co-pilot was cruising at 38,000. this is what we are at right now. >> we're right now at 38,000 feet. autopilots are all engaged, and this would be a normal cruise
scenario right now. >> reporter: and the belief the working theory is he may have set it to the lowest possible altitude. can you do that for us? >> sure. there's many ways to descend the airplane. what's been reported is that he set in a lower altitude which i'm doing right now. spinning it all the way down and then initiating that by pulling this knob out. that commands the engines to go to idle which they're going to right now and then it will start our descent. now, this is a very benign descent. the passengers wouldn't feel it. >> reporter: it's very slow. >> very slow. it's a normal type of descent. of course what's abnormal here is we have 100 feet in the altitude window. >> reporter: tell me how deliberate that is to put in 100 over the alps? >> that would be a very deliberate act. you would never do that unless you wanted the airplane to have a terminal descent and never recover. now, he could stop this descent at any time by dialling in another altitude. i could stop it at 37,000 feet. there is another way he could have descended the airplane and
that would be by doing it manually and what he would do is disconnect the autopilot, pushing in button and just gently pushing the stick down. nothing -- again, the passengers would not feel this. it would be a normal descent and the airplane he would just leave it. it trims itself. this is a very sophisticated airplane. that's an auto trend situation. it will protect itself from speed, and he would never have to touch another button. >> reporter: thank you buck rodger with us showing us how an a-320 works. very simple moves but very very frightening. >> thank you so much. we've been asking for your questions about flight 9725 that is and we'll be answering them straight ahead. plus while arab leaders meet in egypt on the future of yemen, the battle for control of that country is escalating and getting even more deadly. my advice for healthy looking radiant skin. a good night's sleep... and aveeno®. [ female announcer ] only aveeno® positively radiant has
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now to the fierce battle under way right now for control of yemen. a source tells cnn a coalition led by saudi arabia has taken out key military targets in yemen controlled by the shiite rebels. cnn's becky anderson is at the arab league summit in egypt. so becky, one big bone of contention is the control of yemen while at that summit and
we understand the president who left yemen a month ago was in attendance at that summit. what has he been asking for or what is he counting on? >> reporter: well it's interesting. as the conflict rages on the ground in his country, the almost, and i emphasize almost inquif unequivocal message is the failed party is due to the sustained interference by foreign parties. this is the will of the yemeni people said the new saudi king in his speech a couple hours ago. he didn't mention by name his regional rival iran but yemen's president did laying the blame squarely at tehran's door. he said you bear the possibility for what happened and what is going to happen he said. well what happens next of course, is the big question. talk here of a long drawn out
conflict with the possibility, fredricka, of ground troops involved which could be very messy. there are dissenting voices though amongst arab leaders, not the least of which is iraq saying that accusations that iran is involved are nonsense and that the saudi-led operation was a hasty decision and i have heard this behind closed doors from others across the region concerned about the potential for what could be a very messy sectarian conflict and of course this just as the u.s. is at a crucial stage in these nuclear talks to bring iran in from the cold so what goes on in yemen seriously does not stay in yemen at this point. watch this space, fredricka. >> all right. becky anderson thank you so much. so let's talk more about this though it has no seat at the table, there is a lot at stake for the u.s. in this weekend's summit in egypt there
and on the battlefield in yemen. joining me is retired lieutenant army colonel tony schaefer. good to see you. >> good to see you, too. >> you heard from becky there. >> right. >> many of these arab nations are saying iran you are in large part to blame because the rebels in yemen are being backed by iran but then there's some -- i guess there's some debate iranians are saying we can't be to blame on this. so who is telling the truth or how do these arab leaders get to the bottom of this and why is this important for the u.s.? >> well they have been attempting for years now to regain control or expand control of their area in yemen. this ising in new-- is nothing new. they were forced into a negotiated settle amment the last time and the big issue is ungoverned space. a large part of the country is now under al qaeda control. they are a natural enemy of the
alexander because the fact they're led by the shia elements and funded by iran. the al qaeda is sunni, and they are completely opposite the other side of the islamic faith. with that said though often said the idea of the enemy of my enemy is my friend you may see the houthi come together. they're threatening suicide bombings in saudi arabia as well as al qaeda. so what you see here are two natural enemies coming together to attack a potentially third enemy, saudi arabia. so i think that's why you have seen a concerted evident by the saudis to get ahead of this with the egyptians moving in to put together an arab coalition to go after this and i think it's a very serious situation, and i do believe the iranians are behind fund. funding the houthi and encouraging them to do what they're doing. >> it's very complex. >> it's very complex. >> it's about yemen, but it's also about iran showing a face in very different ways. here we are approaching a deadline of the u.s. and iran
trying to work together to work out some sort of deal and then you've got the iranians who are backing the houthis which undermine the government that the u.s. has been backing in hadi and then you have iran who is also been an advocate to assist iraq similar to how the u.s. is assisting iraq so there is some stability. so help us understand the role of the u.s. to what extent is this a diplomatic role. will there be any military commitment that the u.s. would commit to as it pertains to yemen in particular. i know 125 embassy personnel left recently and there are no u.s. troops in yemen, but why is this still important this nation would be stabilized in terms of u.s. interests? >> we've committed publicly the white house has said publicly they will support saudis through intelligence and logistical support. we actually rescued downed saudi
aviators within the last 24 hours who went down. i think we're going to be helping them. we will not have an active role in military operations. we have spoken about my think tank's idea to put together an arab nato to deal with this kind of things to conduct military operations without the u.s. being involved directly. i think that's where this is going, which is not a bad thing. the iranians behind the houthi the problem with what's going on with the houthi is we have the potential of seeing what happened in libya, what's happened in ssyria, what happened in iraq being what happened in yemen. isis recently within the last week attacked two mosques and wherever there's ungoverned space, isis moves into. so this may backfire on the iranians much like in iraq where you leave these ungoverned spaces the potential and likelihood is you will have isis come in to fill it and that's what's probably going to happen here if we can't find a
diplomatic agreement to bring the houthi and president hadi back together in some form. >> oh boy. lieutenant colonel schaefer thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. we know our viewers have a whole lot of questions about that germanwings plane that went down. we'll answer your questions next. moms know their family's mouths often need a helping hand. after brushing listerine® total care helps prevent cavities strengthens teeth
the germanwings crash investigation is raising so many questions. we've been asking you to submit yours on twitter. let's bring in our panel in new york jonathan gillian, former air marshal and fbi agent from washington. mary o'toole, senior profiler and special agent. and in new york a aviation analyst and contributing editor for "flying" magazine. welcome to all of you. les, to you first. eric asks this. should air traffic controllers be able to override a plane if the plane seems to be hijacked? >> it's kind of implausible for that technology to exist unless we get to a drone operation. but what in this particular circumstance what would anybody have done at this point, to take over the airplane. it was unfortunately written in the cards for this particular co pilot. >> and mary ellen, macro muse asking this going forward, how does a passenger know that the
person piloting the plane is certified, fit and proper for the flight? >> they wouldn't know. they put their trust in the airline, and assume that best practices have been used to vet that individual to make sure they're suitable. so the passengers on the plane would not be able to know. again, because these overt signs of serious mental pathology are not -- are not obvious, and the person knows they have a for mental pathology. >> twanna wants to know are there air marshals on european airlines something similar? >> well i'm not particularly sure about this airliner and the germanwings plane, but we do have federal air marshals in the u.s. that fly with u.s. flight
carriers overseas in certain circumstances. but i really don't know any particular about this airline. i know israel does for sure. >> yeah. >> and a lot of people actually are asking on twitter -- asking this. if on star can remotely unlock doors, why can't faa aircraft controllers do the same? >> well it's not a bad question. but remember we have this door situation set up to solve another problem, which was a terrorism act. and we reinforced kevlar made the latches secure we set up a system to open the door. so now we're going to in a way have to reengineer this technology. so it's -- it isn't practical. nor was this whole situation ever conceivable.
it certainly wasn't conceivable by me. >> and then because this is rare this is a rare occurrence i have to wonder you know les, if it does seem that airlines will put into place some sort of mechanisms to address something that is such an anomaly as opposed to this being a new frequency. >> well day with.
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♪ oh. so you're protesting? ♪ ♪ okay. [ male announcer ] introducing xfinity my account. available on any device. checking our top stories, a new twist in the e-mail scandal surrounding former secretary of state, hillary clinton. a republican lawmaker who suspended the e-mails who clinton deliberately deleted. trey gowdy of south carolina wants the messages as part of an investigation into the attacks at the u.s. consulate in benghazi. clinton's lawyer says she did keep copies of all work-related e-mails from that personal server. a sickening attack on a
commuter train in st. louis is captured on cell phone and surveillance video. police say an african-american man started throwing punches at a white man when he refused to talk about the michael brown shooting in ferguson. they say two more african-american men joined in on the attack. police are asking for help identifying the suspects. the victim walked away with bruises on his face. we've got so much more straight ahead in the "newsroom," and it all starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com the crash of the germanwings flight has taken a toll on the families of the victims. relatives and friends of the deceased gathered today in an area near the site where their loved ones died. they held prayers near the alps. that is the village serving as a staging post for the recovery operations. loved ones brought flowers and pictures as they mourned the
lives lost. cnn's karl penhaul -- actually fred pleitgen first on the latest of what is being reported. we know fred -- sorry about that. we know that in a german newspaper there are reports about a conversation with a former girl friend as it relates to the co pilot. and then of course we know prosecutor have said there have been doctors' notes located that said he was unfit to work. so to you now, fred. what is the latest on the investigation of what investigators are trying to piece together? all right, fred hopefully you can hear me now. i think we're having some audio problems and a few other technical problems. so fred if you can hear this in atlanta, what's the latest on the investigation involving the co pilot in particular? all right. well we did lose that shot.
so sorry about that. we'll try to revise that report as soon as we can. all right. so let's try and piece together some of the information that we are learning with the help of our panel now. let's bring in diane dameos a psychologist involved in pilot selection for the u.s. military for more than 40 years. she also is a pilot and has worked with commercial airlines. and mary ellen o'toole is a former senior fbi profiler and special agent, and david souzy, former inspector for the faa. and les abend is a caa aviation analyst and contributing editor for "flying" magazine. thanks for all of you joining us now. there is also a "new york times" report that is indicating that the co pilot, lubitz also had some kind of visual problems. that together with the initial reports coming from german prosecutors who say that they
found a doctor's note when going through his personal belongings at his apartment and the doctor's note that was torn up and apparently never given to the airline he worked for, said he was unfit to work. so diane, to you first. what is the obligation that anyone in the medical community would have to reveal to an employer particularly when you're talking about a job, like being a pilot, and there are many lives in your hands, what's the obligation that a doctor might have to reveal that not count on self-reporting but to reveal that to an airline? >> in our country, the doctor really can't reveal that because of the hppa laws and in germany, they have stricter laws of personal data. and i would also like to point out that it said unfit to work. it's never been clear to me that the doctor understood this person was a pilot. >> wouldn't that -- that would seem pretty natural that a
doctor would know what someone's employment is though. in most circumstances. wouldn't you think? >> i would. but, you know i wouldn't assume that. he may not have told the doctor or may have given the doctor false information. >> hmmm. okay mary ellen, to you. what is peculiar about these reports we're hearing? again, cnn is not able to authenticate verify a lot of information being reported by other outlets. but this is the kind of information that is floating around about what they're trying. what investigators are trying to better understand about this individual. in your view especially when you're talking about a pilot, would it seem as though there is a greater obligation for anyone around that working pilot to help reveal any kind of medical information that would keep them from being a fit person to work? >> certainly there could be. both here in the united states as well as in germany.
and we don't know at this point, since the co pilot had been seen by doctors over a period of at least a couple weeks, based on what his condition or conditions were the doctor may have said to him, the day that he was flying or the day before look i'm going to -- i have to find you unfit because of a, b, c and d. and if you don't tell your employer i'm obligated to tell them. we don't know if that could have happened which certainly would have been a precipitating stressor but i think, you know the thing that's really important is no matter what his medical condition was, psychiatrically or physically his response to that information was so completely disproportionate to his medical condition, to go in and to do what he did. that really goes to the kind of personality that he has. it's just completely disproportionate to any bad news medically or psychiatrically. >> okay. and david and les, i want to get to you momentarily. but i also understand our signal
with fred pleitgen is now strong again enough to talk with him. let's get the latest on what fred pleitgen has been able to uncover there as investigators try to pore over details with fred and then we'll continue our panel conversation. so to you, fred. >> reporter: hi fredricka. certainly, in this investigation, of course keep moving forward. we know there are french investigators who are here in the cologne and dusseldorf area now,ly acing with investigators, which is important because the investigation is being headed from france, where the plane went down. of course the german investigators are very important, as well. because this is a place where lubitz lived. this is where the apartments are where he stayed at. one, of course in germany, where he was with his parents, as well as his brother. of and then the one in deuce he will dorff. and we know that medical records have been retrieved from at least one of those sites. we know that they show he was in a long-standing medical treatment that had been going on. and we also know that's the
place where multiple sick notes had been found that apparently -- at least some of them he destroyed in an effort -- the public prosecutor says to hide his illness from his employer. the "new york times" is reporting that he was apparently seeking treatment for some sort of vision issue. they got that from they say two sources close to the investigation. there are other media outlets reporting he apparently had psychological issues as well. we have not been able to confirm that just yet. but we do know he had been seeking medical treatment for quite a while, and that of course they say he was hiding that from his employer. and one of the things that germanwings has said they say they never got a sick note from him, especially on the day that that flight happened. when of course he was not supposed to fly as well. so a lot of new information is coming out. we do expect to hear more from the public prosecutor over the weekend to shed more light as to why possibly andreas lubitz did what he did. >> all right.
fred pleitgen thank you so much. giving us more to chat with our panel now. so let's bring them back. david souzy and les abend, haven't had a chance to get back to you. i wonder dave just listening to what fred was saying, if the airline is saying look we didn't know anything about his condition, we hadn't received any notes as of recent. what is the obligation of the medical community in which to report this kind of information, particularly -- we know in the u.s. you've got hppa laws and that prevents that kind of interaction from happening. your medical information is to remain private. but europe and perhaps in a circumstance like this if he this co pilot, was going to a doctor that was not necessarily recommended by the airlines would there still be an obligation for that doctor or the medical community to reach out to the airline, to share that information, especially if someone is of a mental or physical state in that they are
volatile? you can't necessarily trust they are going to self report. >> well back to the medical community directly fredricka. the faa and the safety systems we have in place, whether it's the united states or worldwide, is what we consider a safety umbrella. within that safety umbrella, are certificates that grant you the authority to operate within the air space. so that's what a pilot certificate does. it says you will operate within the air space. the medical community that maintains the authenticity or the certification of those licenses rely on designees. they're medical examiners, doctors, just like a gp general practitioner. but those doctors are specifically trained and authorized to do these inspections or to do these medicals that we do every six months or year depending on the requirement. now, if you talk about a medical community, another doctor he goes outside of that umbrella and he goes through these doctors and tries to shop for
different diagnoses. mostly -- he's obviously been very good at hiding things within himself. so i don't -- i doubt there was any kind of external communication outside of this safety umbrella to that doctor on the outside that said yeah he's diagnosed with this or that. and there's no legal responsibility that i'm aware of unless there is something he's going to commit suicide or hurt other people that would obligate that doctor to say, hey, he had to get glasses or had slight depression. i don't see that -- there is a disconnect between that safety system. >> so les, if it wasn't the aviation medical authority, where, you know this co pilot received his medical attention or even a recommendation and the airline just simply didn't even know would the airline still be in some way held responsible or culpable? would there be any way in which to monitor someone's fitness on a regular basis for this particular airline so that there
may have been some observations made or if it's the case of everything was overlooked? >> well dave souzy addressed some of that with reference to the medical examiner. that's the only way, going through that examination myself personally every six months and my colleagues the same way. >> we don't know if that is the standard there. >> correct. i believe it is because these folks do fly in the states and they want to keep the same standards as the states. but let me just take it from a personal level. the bottom line is if i have a cold i'm not going to work. because it's detrimental to the people behind me. this is something that's very simple. we're obviously -- talking something more tragic than a cold at this point in time. but we're all extremely good about that. and why should i subject other -- my other colleagues to my cold for instance. so it has worked very well over
the last several years. this man, unfortunately, tragically fell through the cracks and yes, let's address the issue. and that's why it seems like the self reporting doesn't make any sense to me. i mean if you're talking about a line of work in which you are responsible for hundreds of lives, why would it -- would the onus be put on you know the pilot, the person whose responsibility it is to take care of these people when flying abroad or lolley why would the onus be put on that person to self report to reveal they may be potentially unfit, and know they could lose their work, they're going to lose pay? i mean it just seems pretty ridiculous quite frankly. anyone could answer that one. diane, mary or david or les. >> fredricka, if you don't mind -- and i appreciate that what you're saying there. and it's certainly a very valid concern. however, we were hired to be that responsible individual.
and this -- like i've mentioned before this individual was a total anomaly. the system has worked well. i'm not saying it's a perfect system and just because it's worked we should do answer -- it indeed worked to such a degree because these are the people that airlines hire. >> right. okay go ahead, david. >> i was just going to say -- i agree with you 100% about that responsibility by the pilot. what i have a difficult time with is that, you know you diagnosed your own cold so you wouldn't go to work today. what's the capability of an average person even though it's a highly trained pilot, of being able to diagnose his own mental illness? you know i say that's a stretch. so thereby -- >> it sounds like that came after, you know the medical community did at least weigh in already on this co pilot, if, indeed investigators found the notes from doctors. as they say they did.
>> yeah. exactly. so what my point is there is a really good system in place to recognize and identify and report any kind of abnormal behavior with pilots. because you're sitting in the cockpit forever. and i know many cases in which the pilots discuss things and then the other pilot comes back ask says hey, this guy ain't right, and will report it to the chief pilot and the chief pilot puts this other person -- discusses with him and brings in professionals to assess that. that happens all of the time in the airlines. whenever it arises as a behavioral issue. >> all right. we still have so much to talk about, ladies and gentlemen. we'll all be back again and talk some more. for now, we take a short break. diane, mary ellen, and les, thank you so much. so after the break, a memorial service bringing so many families close at that site of that tragic crash. and later we'll answer more of your questions, perhaps about the crash. you can submit them on twitter at #germanwingsqs at cnn.
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the families of the victims are trying to come to terms with the germanwings crash. relatives and friends of the deceased gather today in an area near the site where they're loved ones died. they held prayers near the alps. that is a village where crews have set up recovery operations. and loved ones brought flowers and pictures to the service, as they mourned the lives lost. and as karl penhaul joins us from near that site karl you made your way, got to see firsthand how difficult it is for those searchers. what is the latest on their search? >> >> reporter: well once again today, up there in the mountains around 40 rescue workers continuing this very arduous task of both collecting the human remains and also important fragments of the plane, trying
to bring those back for analysis to shed more light on this crash. but very difficult work they're doing. and that is why yesterday we decided to hike up into the mountains. it was tough going. but we thought it would help us better understand why this recovery operation could take many more days and possibly several more weeks. this is what we found. swinging on a wire they recover the remains. hundreds of feet below, emergency crews cling to the mountainside just so they don't fall. investigators say the speed of the crash pulverized plane and passengers. the recovery operation, they say, is bit by bit, bag by bag. you can just pick out the small red flags rescuers dig into the earth when they discover new fragments. and that looks like a scorch mark. the french prosecutors said the
plane hit the mountain bounced off, and then disintegrated. it's a tough hike through rugged mountains and steep valleys. just a little while before dawn but we're going toward a trail head. in order to understand why some rescuers described this as their biggest-ever challenge, we try to get closer to the crash zone. is there a little bit of frost this morning, now the sun is coming down certainly no sign of snow just yet. few people except shepherds live up here. conditions are too inhospitable. getting up here is literally hanging on to trees and grass. you can see why they're going to have to fly anything out of the crash site by helicopter. the whir of rotor blades helps us pinpoint. from high above, we see forensic
teams working with expert mountaineers to keep them safe. high winds make flying treacherous. saying farewell is never easy. but perhaps those grieving could find a little consolation amid these krags. peace by the running water. peace of snow-capped peaks. peace to loved ones lost. now this is an incredibly difficult recovery operation, but it is a determined one of emergency workers, doing this task. in fact cnn was talking to one of the helicopter pilots this morning, and he was saying yesterday wind gusts were just so tough, making it very treacherous to fly into those valley ravines. and at one point decided to fly on instincts. he took his eye off the control panel and literally looked at
the birds around him and little bit of string dangling outside his cockpit to get a sense and feeling of what the wind was doing that would enable him to better fly his helicopter get out his colleagues off the ground and bring out the body bags as well fredricka. >> oh my goodness. karl penhaul, thank you so much. we're going to have much more on the crash straight ahead.
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thank you. >> knox's former boy friend was also cleared friday night. officials believe germanwings co pilot, andreas lubitz was alone in the cockpit as he reprogrammed the plane to crash into the french alps. after the disaster some are asking if cockpit cameras would improve security and safety. that's next. my goal was to finally get in shape. not to be focusing again, on my moderate to severe chronic plaque psoriasis. so i finally made a decision to talk to my dermatologist about humira. humira works inside my body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to my symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis saw 75% skin clearance on humira. and the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes
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hello again and thank you for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield. major developments in the deadly germanwings crash. we now know the name of the plane's captain. a relative confirms his identity as patrick sondenheimer, can be heard trying to bang down the cockpit door as the "new york times" reports that the co pilot, andreas lubitz sought
treatment for vision problems before the crash. another piece of the puzzle as investigators try to determine what may have driven lubitz to crash the plane intentionally. officials found a ripped up doctor's note in his apartment declaring him unfit to work. and that he had a mental illness which he kept secret from the airline. this as crews rush to recover the remains of the victims. they say they are making some progress and the weather at the crash site is now improving. the crash has reignited the debate over cameras inside the airplane cockpit. some say it's a good idea. others consider it a violation of private policy. >> reporter: andreas lubitz had locked himself alone in the cockpit as the captain pounded on the door. now safety experts are calling for a bold move to avoid another disaster. cameras in the cockpit. >> the cameras would not be on
the face of either of the pilot or the co pilot. they would focus on the instrument and on the manipulations of -- that are made. >> reporter: former ntsb chairman jim hall says cameras would be a deterrent to bad behavior or careless piloting and would be a key investigative tool. what could cameras detect? >> you can see the instruments, you can see what they're seeing on their instrument panels on their screens. you can see what they're doing with their hands. >> reporter: cameras on the instruments wouldn't necessarily give investigators much help in the germanwings crash probe. they already know how that plane went down technically. but former commercial pilot, lynn spencer, says cameras trained on pilots' faces could carved certain moments that cockpit voice and flight data recorders might miss. >> was the pilot choking, is the pilot having a seizure. >> reporter: the technology is already on the market but one manufacturer told us no airlines have bought their cameras. cameras are already used to monitor key missions like friday's launch to the
international space station. they're used to watch some train operators, taxi drivers, and bus drivers, including this one, caught looking at his phone, then crashing. cockpit video could even be live streamed back to controllers on the ground in real-time. although the expense of installing and streaming thousands of live cameras could be prohibitive. spencer says cockpit cameras could have provided key evidence in some of the most infamous disasters in aviation including 9/11. >> if we had had cameras in the cockpits 9/11 we would have been able to see how the hijackers took over the cockpit, how they killed the pilots how they tried to manipulate the controls. >> reporter: the top pilots union in america is staunchly against the idea. in a statement to cnn, it says cockpit video, quote, is subject to misinterpretation and may, in fact lead investigators away from accurate conclusions. pilot union officials also say they're worried about a video leaking. they say voice data recorder clips have been made public in
company, lufthansa, in court. and the legal battle with the families of the victims could be long and expensive. the big question here should the co pilot have been allowed to fly at all? a torn-up note found in his apartment indicated he was unfit to work. there are a number of legal issues here. to short them all out, let's bring in our legal guys avery freeman, civil rights attorney and law professor in cleveland. and -- good to see you. and richard herman new york criminal defense attorney and law professor from -- i feel so sorry for you -- hawaii. aloha. >> life is tough. >> it is tough, isn't it? you put your surfing, you know plans on hold for this segment, i hope? >> i hope so too. >> okay. all right. so gentlemen, lots to delve in here. so we know in the u.s. you've got hppa rules. so your doctor should not reveal anything about your health. that's something you would need to volunteer. we don't necessarily know if
that's the case here though right, avery? if indeed these were doctors' notes uncovered by prosecutors and they said unfit to work and maybe revealed something more about his medical condition, is the onus strictly up to that pilot to report it to the airline, or should the doctor have involved him or herself in reporting it to the airline? does that change the culpability, responsibility even of the airline at this point? >> it does not. every year pilots generally certify they have gone back and had a checkup and done what they have had to do. other than the initial one. and that's where the hole is here. because in this case what's so terribly significant, is that andreas lubitz is as far as everyone was concerned, was completely healthy. he hid this information. and that triggers the question of liability and the primary focus of that fredricka, is the 1999 montreal convention the
treaty that will assign liability to lufthansa, a base amount of money, and because lubitz was an employee the sky is going to be the limit when it comes to the obligation of the carrier to these 149 families. >> gosh. but richard, clearly, lufthansa you know germanwings, will try to lay the case out that they are not negligent. what would they have to say or do to remove themselves from responsibility here? >> how about this fred. even if they are found to be negligent, under german law, cases like this bring about 20 to $40,000 per family. that's it. it's not like lotto in the united states. that's under the german system. so when avery references the montreal convention that's going to give each family about $150,000 per person. the family then has the right to either accept that sign a release, and it's over. or reject that claim, and sue
for negligence and they have the option to sue in germany, because most of the people -- passengers were german. there is some french law, and because it happened in france criminally speaking that's the sole jurisdiction. but from everything we've seen t does not appear there is going to be any criminal prosecution. but civilly, they would have to prove that the airline was negligent and as a result of the airline's negligence people died. when there is crumpled up and ripped up notes in the pilot's house, how did the airline know about this? what procedures did they incorporate to protect the pilots to make sure they're suitable for flying and the big thing, should they have had the two-person regulation in the cockpit. they did not. germany did not have that. of that's a big issue. >> so avery, here we are talking about the culpability, responsibility of the airline, germanwings or lufthansa. what about the doctors?
would the victims say, wait a minute the doctors knew about his situation, potentially they knew what kind of job he had, that they didn't report or share that if they're able to substantiate or prove that. does that mean the doctors, the medical community, those who saw this co pilot, would also be subject to potential lawsuit? >> no. i don't think so. as professionals, there's a confidentiality that attaches to the patient/doctor relationship. there is absolutely no legal duty. but i need to say, fredricka, i'm not in agreement with richard. i think negligence is an element, but the reason that the montreal convention was created was if you have evidence of behavior by the carrier -- and lubitz was an employee. there is strict liability. so i'm not convinced at all that there is going to be a restriction on the -- on damages for these 149 families. i think it is going to be sky high.
and i think the consequences are going to be literally in the hundreds of millions of dollars. >> wow. all right. >> absolutely -- fred that's wrong. it's not. it's going to be -- >> that's not wrong. >> you sign a release, and it's over fred. it's over. once you sign that release. >> german law does not trump an international treaty richard. >> all right. we shall see. >> i disagree. >> well surprise there. all right. richard, avery, thank you so much. mahalo. appreciate it. enjoy honolulu. and cleveland. all right. still ahead, our viewers have still a lot of questions about the crash of the germanwings plane, and we'll be able to answer them for you, right after this.
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. all right. we know you have lots of questions about the germanwings plane crash, and we have asked to you submit your questions on twitter. now we have some answers. let's bring in our panel. from chicago, aviation psychologist diane damos. in washington mary ellen o'toole, senior fbi profiler and special agent. and from new york we have cnn david souzy, and les abend, aviation analyst and contributing editor to "flying" magazine. welcome back to all of you. diana, jim writes this. why can't the airlines eghp or your employer group health plan
notify them when a pilot is receiving mental health treatment? >> it's because of our hppa laws concerning the release of private medical information. and that's the main restricter of the diffusion of this information. >> all right. and to you, mary ellen, sherry asking this. is there a radio in the cabin, not in the cockpit, that crew can use to notify ground control there is a problem on board? >> oh i would have to say that's well beyond my expertise. as a profiler i would not know that. you may want to ask one of the other gentlemen. >> i'm sorry about that. okay. so david, how about to you? what is the answer to that? is there some sort of, you know way in which the crew can contact ground control, you know without having to be in the cockpit? >> in this aircraft there was not. and in many and most aircraft there is. but it's through a maintenance
communication thing, where if you have something go wrong in the cockpit, you can put that information in. but you can also contact from the back now. but in this aircraft that wasn't available. >> okay. and then les, this question to you. do you think this accident will affect or change the process of pilot hiring within the airlines? >> it's certainly possible. it's going to be a consideration, i think. they'll reevaluate the application process. it's already been reevaluated by virtue of september 11. and all the background checks that have to be done. but, you know this process is probably like i said going to be reevaluated. >> and then mary ellen, i imagine, you know every pilot who now is getting in the cockpit and, you know sizing up their co pilot or vice versa, that is happening, do you suppose at this point airlines are now trying to comfort or talk to pilots about maybe these are some of the things you need
to think about or look for or you know raise a red flag on if you observe something? >> well, that really is a good point, because there is an area of research and work called threat assessment. and people all over the world are involved and get training in there. and there are red flags that precede these kinds of incidents. and there's absolutely no reason that that kind of training can't also be provided to pilots and flight attendants and other people in the airline industry. >> all right. >> fredricka could i address that also? do we have time? >> yes. >> within my airline, we do have that. it works with the union. it's a program that either unanimously or publicly will allow the pilot to report somebody that might have some problems and do it you saidunder the radar. and it's been working very well with our program. >> les abend, diane damos, he
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they said all files had been turned over to authorities. the authorities in france and germany are cooperating on this matter. the germans for their part at this point in time are only saying he had an illness, he had been treated for an illness for quite a while. and had several sick notes because of this illness that he had torn up and was trying to hide this from his employer. they don't say exactly what that is. there are publications who are saying he had had mental problems in the past. so we are still trying to get to the bottom of what exactly he was being treated for at the time that this crash happened fredricka. >> and what more if anything are we learning about this captain, patrick son deny heimer? son sondenheimer? >> that's the big question now. and authorities are trying to piece together the mosaic about what kind of man this was.
what might have driven him to do what he apparently did. and certainly, of course the media is doing the same thing. the newspaper here in germany, the biggest newspaper in germany, claims to have an interview with an ex girlfriend of andreas lubitz. and in that interview, she says that he was a man who was very sensitive, someone who needed a lot of attention, someone who could also be quite nice and flattering apparently very often bought her flowers and did similar things. but also someone who had a very dark side to him. someone who would get very erratic, very angry whenever they had fight. someone who she said she was quite frankly afraid of at times. someone who would wake up in the middle of the night with nightmares. and she apparently said one of the reasons why they split up in the end was because she felt he had psychological problems. so that's one of the things where we're -- authorities are trying to piece together who this person exactly can is. of course they're also at this point speaking to his relatives, speaking to his parents. he lived with them in part, as
well in that house with his brother, as well. people who knew him. people at this airline. they're trying to piece together exactly what might have been missed also in the many medical evaluations that he had to go through to be a pilot, and to remain a pilot, fredricka. >> all right, fred pleitgen thank you so much. appreciate that. let's take a closer look now at some of the latest information that we're hearing. mitchell garber is a former ntsb medical officer, and senior managing consultant for engineering consulting firm esi. mary ellen o'toole is a former senior fbi profiler and special agent. david suze is a cnn safety analyst and former inspector for the faa and les abend, contributing editor for "flying" magazine. good to see you. dr. garber we begin with you, because we're hearing from fred pleitgen about these notes that may have indicated there may have been an indicator from a doctor he was unfit for work.
at the same time there is that confidentiality between a patient and, you know his or her doctor. so is there much onus on anyone in the medical community to report to the airline knowing what kind of work he likely did? we don't even know if they did know. but it seems like we all recall a doctor asking us when you're in your visit, what do you do for a living. so they are prescribing to you the right kind of treatment conducive to your work environment. so should the medical community -- should his doctors have reported even if he didn't? >> well and the requirements are going to be different in different nations. everybody has got it a little bit differently. here in the united states there is no such requirement. in australia and new zealand, doctors who are aware a commercial pilot does have a condition that may be interfering with safety are required to report that condition. so it depends on the location as to whether that's actually a requirement for it or not. the onus is mostly on the pilot to report and to allow people to understand when they've got a condition that may be
interfering with their ability to fly. but there are obviously reasons where that might not work. and in certain nations, it is a required for the doctors to make those reports. >> david, we did talk earlier it is self-reporting that is usually the standard in the u.s. but as a result of a tragedy like this do you see any potential reform to that policy whether it be in the u.s. or even abroad? >> well i think self reporting has to be there, but i think there also needs to be something to supplement that. because to self-report is one thing when you're aware of what's going on. but we're talking about psychological issues and problems here that you just may not be aware of what's going on in the first place. so right now, we rely on observations by other pilots other people they work with to be able to see their behavior and report that behavior. and they do that well and there is a great system for doing that even anonymously. but there needs to be some work in this area. there is no doubt about it now. >> and then les you know apparently -- and this has been widely reported already, that lubitz took off work for, you know six months during training
for a medical condition and had also been treated at least once for a quote, unquote, serious depressive episode. that being reported by various media outlets. so what is a way to determine whether this person can return back to work generally? >> well most airlines have a medical department that makes that evaluation. but what disturbs me is that this was information that was probably available to some form of lufthansa, the training department and they -- i mean this is a top notch airline, with top notch training. and top notch pilots. why this didn't go back to them and -- you know -- >> yeah because they would seem -- it would seem if you have a medical reason why you can't carry out the training that has to be a red flag for the airline to know a lot more about what's the situation, and why is it now
your -- you know, you're fit again or able to return to this training. >> and this gentleman went through a process that's a little different here in the u.s. he was basically hired by lufthansa to begin his training and go through the pipeline. here in the u.s. we gain experience at different levels of aviation. so this -- this gentleman went through, and he had very, very limited experience. but his training was very specific to airline type flying. >> and mary ellen, doesn't that kind of information equip the airline to now start really paying attention, looking for some signs, i don't know better evaluating this co pilot? is that something that you think would be customary or even expected? >> well i think it would be very helpful, and you certainly want people that were evaluating the information to be trained to understand how to look at self-reported information or information provided by a
co-worker that they have that background that they can, you know delve deeper into it. but also you know maintain a sense of you know compassion and empathy, because regardless of how this ultimately ends up being handled, people are very concerned about losing their jobs and if somebody reports to their headquarters they have this condition, that has to be handled in a very compassionate way, and people if they notice that someone has reported information about mary ellen, it was minor, but mary ellen lost her job as a result of that that's certainly going to shut down that pipeline. >> yeah. and doctor it seems that's in large part why you have hipaa laws right, because you don't want to create an environment, you know, this country, that recognizes hipaa laws that your medical condition or your employer finding out about your medical condition will be held against you. and so that's why it also kind of seems -- doesn't seem to coincide with the whole self reporting thing.
why would you report that you have a medical condition if it means that you're going to lose your job? >> right. and there's not necessarily an advantage to a pilot in reporting that condition, if they suspect that that may be used in a way that may lose them their ability to make a living. in fact with depression in this country, only just recently allowed pilots who were being treated effectively with antidepressants to resume working into the cockpit. so it's actually a step forward being able to do that. because now we have pilots who can be monitored and evaluated appropriately, as opposed to going out on their own and hiding that information. >> and david you know so we don't really know what kind of -- what the mental or his physical you know diagnoses were. but is there i guess threshold or is there at a minimum certain mental or physical ailments or conditions that are acceptable for a pilot, or is there, you know a cutoff point that is very clear that most airlines would not allow you to continue
doing your job as a pilot? >> well regulating operations is a challenge in itself because it varies so much. and now we're talking about regulating a psychological issue. so what we refer to in the industry as the red box, which is the brain, as opposed to the black boxes, is something that we just -- unfortunately, there's no real way to come up with a litmus test to see this person is a pilot and that person is not. >> and les, while in the states i think i heard you earlier talk about every six months there might be an evaluation conducted concerning pilots here in the u.s. but if it doesn't happen you know with other carriers whether lufthansa or others it's incumbent upon the pilot to just simply give their checkups when they see fit? >> no. no it's an faa requirement here in the states and i would assume that it's the same over in germany. you -- every six months myself as a captain, i have to get an
examination by a certified medical examiner. and that medical examiner is required or at least is expected to ask certain questions, you know how is your family life. most of it pertains to perhaps alcohol usage. but a lot of times, we do see the same medical examiner. and he's able to maybe make some points about perhaps behavioral changes. but it's cursory, i have to admit. it is cursory. >> all right. david, mary ellen o'toole, les abend and dr. mitch garber thank you so much to all of you. i appreciate it. >> thanks. next we take you inside the cockpit to show you how pilots generally handle this kind of plane. we'll be right back.
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cnn's kyung lah goes inside a flight simulator to get some answers. >> reporter: well fredricka, i'm inside an a-320 simulator. i'm with pilot buzz roger, taking us today. and we're talking safety. let's first off talk about the two-person rule. can you explain that? >> sure the two-person rule kyung, is when someone leaves the cockpit. and before that person leaves another crew member comes in. so there is always two people inside this cockpit. and there's several good reasons for that. basically, safety is the first one. if something were to happen to the pilot, let's say he was incapacitated, that other crew member would be there to open the door to allow the other pilot inside the cockpit. so that's really a big reason. the other reason is so when the other crew member wants to come in he or she can go to the door look through the peephole and open the door. there has been a lot of discussion about this particular switch the cockpit door. would the flight attendant ever touch this. >> no this is a pilot-only
switch. this switch will unlock or lock out that door. so if i didn't want the person on the other side of the door to come into the cockpit, i would take this switch to lock and that would completely lock out the electronic function of the door. there is also a mechanical lock just like you would have on your door at home that if i dead bolted that door it would be completely impenetrable. >> we're cruising at 38,000 feet. now, the significance of that when we talk about the flight is what? >> this was the altitude the germanwings levelled off at before starting its descent into the alps. >> and the theory is then he set it to approximately -- >> so what we're hearing is and what's been reported is that the co pilot set an altitude below the altitude of the terrain, 100 feet here. and initiated a decent. now, we're not sure how he did that. but one way is the normal way, would be by pulling the button there on the mode control panel and then the airplane would start descending. we can see the engines starting
to come back to idle our descent has started down here. and this is a normal descent. >> it's very gradual and easy as a pilot to do this. of . >> you know in normal situations we always verify the altitude between the pilot before we touch -- this is a very critical knob for us. any time we change altitudes, we have to make sure we're doing the right altitude because we don't want to hit other airplanes, we verify that with the other pilot before we hit this knob. >> how deliberate an act is that to put it to 100 above the alps? >> that would be a very deliberate act. right now if i didn't change anything this airplane would just descend right into the mountains, which germanwings did. so -- if he did set it this way, again, i said there was several ways to descend the airplane. another way would be just to disconnect the autopilot. [ beeping ] and push down on the stick. as i'm doing now. and we'll get a descent.
i'm off autopilot. there are no alarms or buzzers because i have an altitude set below my cruising altitude. >> and this is as for you as a pilot, unthinkable? >> completely. we're here to save the day, so to speak. we're here to protect our passengers our crew members, the airplane. and we would never consider something like this. >> pilot buzz roger, currently a commercial airline pilot, thank you for your time. back to you, fredricka. >> all right. kyung lah thank you so much. more demonstrations are set for today in indianapolis. protesters speaking out against a religious freedom bill signed into law this week. many say the law's true purpose is to make it easier to discriminate against gay, lesbian and transgender people. overnight, basketball legend charles barkley weighed in saying quote, discrimination in any form is unacceptable to me. as long as anti gay legislation exists in any state, i strongly believe big events such as the final four and super bowl should
not be held in those states' cities. end quote. shasta darlington joins me now with more on this. that's a pretty strong statement from charles barkley. criticism is coming from who else? >> we're hearing criticism from all sides, from businesses from politicians. from movie stars. this bill was passed on thursday but because of its divisiveness and the national implications the controversy is just growing. opponents shout out their frustration. supporters applaud. as indiana governor mike pence signs into law a measure that critics say will allow businesses to turn away gay and lesbian customers. and the governor says will uphold religious freedom. >> this bill is not about discrimination. and if i thought it legalized discrimination in any way, i would have vetoed it. >> the new law says in part a state or local government action
may not substantially burden a person's right to the exercise of religion. other states have similar legislation, but legal experts say the indiana law is one of the most sweeping and has such broad language that private businesses could use it to turn away clients on religious grounds. the backlash fast and furious. the ncaa which is holding its men's basketball final four in indianapolis next weekend saying it's concerned about the impact on players and employees. and warns it's going to rethink future events. openly gay nba player jason collins tweeted, is it going to be legal for someone to discriminate against me and others when we come to the final four? ceos from apple to yelp denounce the bill and say it could affect business. opponents of the law point to famous cases of bakeries that refused to make wedding cakes for gay couples, and were found guilty of discrimination. saying now indiana businesses could turn away gay customers on religious grounds.
but the governor insists, it couldn't be used that way. >> this legislation restricts government action. it doesn't apply to disputes between private parties, unless government action is involved. >> last year arizona republican governor jan brewer vetoed a similar bill amid threats to boycott the super bowl being held there. now reaction to the indiana law could impact whether other states pass similar measures. in fact arkansas also just passed a similar bill so there are now 20 states with some form of religious freedom law on the books. and the backlash is growing. so as i mentioned, there are obviously athletes out there that we have been mentioning businesses politicians. and just now, angie's list which is based in indianapolis has come out saying they're going to cancel an expansion in indianapolis as a result of this law. so i do think we're going to see other states backing down and rethinking whether or not they're going to go forward with
their own legislation. fred. >> already the ripple effect. thanks so much. shasta darlington. still ahead, more on the crash of that germanwings flight. and next as arab leaders meet in egypt on the future of yemen, the battle for control over that country is escalating and getting even more deadly. bring us your baffling. bring us your audacious. we want your daydreams your ah-has, your easier-said-than-dones. we want your sticky notes, sketchbooks, and scribbles.
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all right. >> checking our top stories. a new twist in the e-mail scandal surrounding former secretary of state, hillary clinton. a republican lawmaker who subpoenaed the e-mail says clinton permanently deleted all the e-mails on the personal server she used while in office. congressman trey gowdy of south carolina wants the message as part of an investigation into the attacks at the u.s. consulate in benghazi. clinton's lawyer says she did keep copies of all work-related e-mails from that personal server. and nasa astronaut scott kelly is now at the international space station, which will be his home for the next 342 days. that would be the longest stretch of time in space for any u.s. astronaut. his stay will allow scientists to study how the human body responds to long duration space flights. back on earth, they'll also perform parallel studies on his twin brother, retired astronaut, mark kelly. in egypt, arab leaders are
meeting to discuss the crisis in yemen. yemen's president is also there rallying for support. meanwhile, a saudi arabia-led campaign is bombarding houthi rebelled controlled parts of yemen. and that saudi-led mission could turn into more than just air strikes. the yemen foreign minter says it's very possible ground forces will be needed. cnn's becky anderson is at the arab league summit in egypt and joins us now with details. and so those yemeni leaders who were there, do they like the idea of possible ground troop involvement? >> reporter: well i think the point is for the yes, ma'ammenisyemenis, just to get the country sorted out, which is at present effectively a failed state. the president hadi has just now in the past hour or so left the red sea resort where we are, where this meeting, this arab league summit has been held and he's gone back to rea to
ring fencing for security. when he was here president hadi not mincing his words when he spoke earlier, accusing iran of pulling the strings to what he called their puppets in yemen, saying that tehran bears the responsibility for what happened and what happens next in yemen. and the new saudi king was here and said that sustained intervention by what he called foreigners on its country's southern border had left the arab allies no choice but to intervene militaryily. and he went on to say this is the will of the yemeni people. many people counter that with arguments this isn't necessarily the will of the yemeni people it's the will of those who support hadi. what happens next really is the big question. as you rightly point out, a long, drawn-out conflict with the possibility of ground troops involved which could be very messy. we have heard voices of dissent here as well. have to be said iraq saying
accusations that iran is influencing things behind the scenes across the region is nonsense. and iraq also saying that these saudi-led operation in yemen was a hasty decision and has to be said i've heard this behind closed doors from others here concerned about what one person described to me as an impatient riyadh with their decision to act, some people believing opening the doors for a potentially messy sectarian conflict. and begin what's going on in luzon with john kerry trying to bring iran back in from the cold at the moment, i think, you know what guess on in yemen at the moment doesn't stay in yemen. and really watch for development at this point. fredricka? >> becky anderson thank you so much. still to come could be some time before the remains of the germanwings crash victims are recovered. cnn's karl penhaul will show how
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recovery crews face a daunting task as they try to recover the victims of the crash. the terrain is steep and treacherous. there are no roads to access the area. and there are two ways to get to the crash site by helicopter or by foot. cnn's karl penhaul shows us how difficult it is. >> reporter: swinging on a wire they recover the remains. hundreds of feet below, emergency crews cling to the mountainside just so they don't fall. investigators say the speed of the crash pulverized plane and passengers. the recovery operation, they say, is bit by bit, bag by bag.
you can just pick out the small red flags rescuers dig into the earth when they discover new fragments. and that looks like a scorch mark. the french prosecutor said the plane hit the mountain bounced off, and then disintegrated. it's a tough hike through rugged mountains and steep valleys. just a little while before dawn but we're going toward a trail head. in order to understand why some rescuers describe this as their biggest ever challenge, we try to get closer to the crash zone. there is a little bit of frost this morning. now the sun is coming down. certainly no sign of snow just yet. few people except shepherds live up here. the conditions are too inhospitable. >> getting up here isliterally hanging on to tree roots and
grass. you can see why they're going to have to fly anything out from the crash site by helicopter. the whir of rotor blades helps us pinpoint the site from our vantage point hi above, we see forensic teams working with mountain engineers to keep them safe. high winds make flying treacherous. saying farewell is never easy. but perhaps those grieving could find a little consolation amid these krags. peace of running water. peace of snow-capped peaks. peace to loved ones lost. karl penhaul, cnn, the french alps. >> that's karl penhaul reporting. let's take a closer look at the recovery of that other black box. with me again is dr. mitchell garber former ntsb medical officer and senior managing consultant for engineering
consulting firm esi. so we know that the voice recorder that black box, was already recovered. that's how we were able to hear about the captain who was banging on you know the door and that the co pilot, there was silence with the descent of the plane. now we're talking with about the flight data recorder. when we talk about and we've had you here talking about the malaysian air flight and we talk about how there is a pinger that searchers will rely on when that black box hits water, we don't have that in this case no pinger. it is orange. but how will they go about trying to find this flight data recorder? >> so it really is going to be a matter of examining the wreckage. they've got a pretty good idea of the wreckage the debris trail, where it goes where it's going to be. but this is very difficult terrain. there are all sorts of nooks, crannies areas very difficult to get to. it may take them some time to find that. >> so mostly sight then. >> it will be. and i suspect they will find it. but i suspect it's going to be a chore. they're going to have to do a lot of work in there. as they're going through,
obviously, recovering remains, that's one of the things they're going to be looking for. and they're going to have a lot of work to do over the next days weeks, possibly even months before they can be sure remove that. >> once they locate it what is the information they need on there to help better piece together what happened here? is there anything? >> well i think again, we're -- from what we're hearing, at least thus far, they've got a pretty good idea of what the issues are. in fact they've already declared this a criminal investigation. so they're looking at details that may help them perhaps prevent this in the future. in other words, what kinds of things were being used in the cockpit, what were the positions of the switches, are there things that can be done to make those switches a little bit harder to operate under these types of circumstances, or even recover the plane itself under these type of circumstances. >> so even though investigators are saying very definitively that this was a deliberate act by this co pilot, and it wasn't a mechanical failure it wasn't a lack of experience or, you know poor use of this jet, will
there still be a concern about piecing together this fuselage like you always see in most you know crashes, just to at least rule out -- cancel out definitively there was nothing wrong with this plane, and let's go back to you know what we believe the cause to be. that this is a deliberate act and the intent of this co pilot. >> i honestly think there won't be as much concentration on the wreckage here. i think the flight data recorder certainly will want to take a look at the cockpit voice recorder obviously giving critical information. the wreckage itself there will be an attempt to certainly get the remains of the victims and return those to their families to the extent possible. but i think that this will not -- >> what will they do with the debris then when they collect it? >> at least in the united states it goes back to the own e which would be the airline. i don't know exactly how that's happened in other states. in other nations. but again, typically it would return back to whoever owned the actual fuselage in the first place. >> wow. all right. thanks so much. mitch garber appreciate it.
>> thank you. coming up in the "newsroom," at the negotiation table over iran's nuclear program. they are reaching a critical point now, and time is running out to reach a deal. we'll go live to switzerland. in my world, wall isn't a street. return on investment isn't the only return i'm looking forward to.
for some every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage. which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college. our commitment to current and former military members and their families is without equal. start investing with as little as fifty dollars. across america, people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza. he said victoza works differently than pills and comes in a pen. victoza is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once a day, any time. and the needle is thin. victoza is not for weight loss but it may help you lose some weight. victoza is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise.
it is not recommended as the first medication to treat diabetes and should not be used in people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. victoza has not been studied with mealtime insulin. victoza is not insulin. do not take victoza if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza or any of its ingredients. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction may include swelling of face lips, tongue or throat fainting or dizziness, very rapid heartbeat problems breathing or swallowing, severe rash or itching. tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. serious side effects may happen in people who take victoza including inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis) which may be fatal. stop taking victoza and call your doctor right away if you have signs of pancreatitis, such as severe pain that will not go away in your abdomen or from your abdomen to your back with or without vomiting. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take
and if you have any medical conditions. taking victoza with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, and headache. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. if your pill isn't giving you the control you need... ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza. it's covered by most health plans. nuclear talks with iran are reaching a critical point, just three days now before the deadline. the negotiations are being held just north of gentlemen novembera. let's go to global affairs correspondent, lisa lab ots.
any indicators of any progress? >> well fred there was a lot of optimism when the talks started on thursday that they could reach a kind of outline or framework deal by the deadlines on tuesday. but the talks have hit a snag. i understand from diplomats here that iran is really playing hardball about two specific key items. namely the sanctions. iran wants to get them lifted day one as soon as this agreement goes into effect. and the international community is like wait a minute you know you need to make -- we need to make sure you're complying with the deal. and then they would start to phase those sanctions out. i also understand the other holdup sticking point, is about the research and development program that iran wants to maintain continuing to research and produce dangerous and advanced nuclear technology while this deal is in effect. and the international community wants to put more curbs on that. so those are the two sticking points. iranian foreign minister says
they have made a decision they want an agreement, but they are holding firm on these two issues. >> and are they holding firm on tuesday being the deadline? >> reporter: well, i think if it they want -- if the parties need to go a couple you know day or two, if they think that an agreement is at hand that wouldn't be a problem. but, you know both in iran and united states have seen march 31st social security a critical deadline. iran wants to show its people that there is a path forward to get those sanctions lifted. and for the obama administration the u.s. they want to prevent congress from imposing anymore sanctions in april. so they see that as a critical milestone. i think there is really a desire to get an agreement on all sides. but what diplomats are saying is iran really has to make some very tough decisions about whether it wants an agreement at all, fred. >> lisa labott thank you so much. appreciate it. an italian court finally ends the legal drama for amanda
knox. >> i -- you saved my life. and i'm so grateful. >> more of knox's tearful reaction to the final ruling in her murder case. everyone wants to switch to t-mobile. but your carrier has you locked up paying off a phone. not anymore. now t-mobile will pay off your phone. stuck in a contract? we've got you covered there too. anyone can tease you with a lower price for a limited time. only t-mobile guarantees your price will never go up. that's right, never. ditch your carrier. and switch to the un-carrier today.
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emperor and prince hellen arrive in jerusalem. >> she's arguably one of the most revered women of antiquity and of all time. >> she's come to lead a dramatic excavation on the site of christ's crucifixinon. >> she's called an ark yoelgs and known to have identified the true cross on which jesus was crucified. >> all right. watch our series "finding jesus" tomorrow night 9:00 p.m. eastern here on cnn. the touch stories now, the weather improved but treacherous terrain impacts
recovery efforts, and they are helicoptered in and connected by rope as they search. recover vi could take weeks. indiana lawmakers setting to allow business owners to discriminate turn away gay, lesbian, and transgender customers. governor mike pence insists the law is not discriminatory. and a school bus carrying middle school students explodes in orange county california friday. no one was seriously injured, and the bus driver is hailed as a hero for helping all 35 students get out safely. the cause of the explosion is still under investigation. amanda knox says she's glad to have her life back now that the eight year legal battle is over.
the supreme court overturned her murder conviction clearing her in the death of her college roommate roommate. initially knox and her boyfriend were convicted of murdering the student in 2007. they served four years in italian prisons before an appeals court overturned convictions for the lack of evidence and set them free and she returned home to seattle. two years later, they were retried and found guilty. she was facing 28.5 years behind bars. she says she is relieved the italian high court overturned that conviction. >> i just wanted to say that i'm incredibly grateful for what happened for the justice i've received for the support that i've had from everyone from my family, from my friends, to strangers, to people like you, i -- it -- you saved my life
and i'm so grateful and i -- i'm so grateful to have my life back. thank you. >> her former boyfriend was also cleared friday night. a commuter on a st. louis train takes a beating for refusing to answer another passenger's question. >> [ bleep ]. why things got heated. >> a white man on the way home in st. louis attacked over mike brown. we'll have the details in the investigation and that case right after the break. you're watching the cnn "news room."
a shocking video surfaces from st. louis revealing an attack on a commuter train. >> [ bleep ] >> police say an african-american man threw punches at a white man when he refused to talk about the michael brown shooting in ferguson. what do we know? >> this started when a suspect asked to borrow the victim's phone, and the conversation turned to mike brown and escalated into violence. adding insult to injury the train was full and no one stepped in to help. >> reporter: ambushed on the metro, cell phone video catches
this assault on a 43-year-old white man. >> i was punched in the face and the glasses came down here to split the skin on the bridge of my nose. >> the victim asked his name not be used says what hurts him the most is of all the people who witnessed the attack no one stopped to help. according to the police report, the assault began at 10:00 p.m. monday night when a suspect asked to use the victim's phone. when victim refused -- >> asked my opinion on the mike brown thing, and i said i was too tired to think about it right now, and then he punches me in my face. >> reporter: at least a dozen times before exiting the train with two others. police are looking for the three men described to be in their early 20s. metro link sells kmov they send $10,000 a year on security.
>> what we're doing in response is talking to our partner in the city about how they can increase their patrols and protection of the system. >> it's disgusting that people were just laughing and smiling about it. no one offered to help. >> those three suspects are on the lose. the victim suffered only superficial injuries and was not hospitalized saying, though, out of fear for his safety he's going to stop riding the train. >> sad situation. thank you so much. appreciate it. so much more straight ahead and it starts right now. happening right now in the news room details emerge about the germanwings co-pilot and claims he was suffering from vision problems. this as his exgirlfriend tells a german tabloid he was paranoid
about losing his job. time is ticking closer for the iranian nuclear talks, and now one said progress is being made. "news room" starts now. hello, again, everyone. thank you for joining me. we begin with the latest development in the germanwings crash citing two sources close to investigation, the new york times reported co-pilot had sought treatment for vision problems. his girlfriend shed light on his personality personality, telling a german tabloid she was fearful of him, and he would be agitated talking about work and we can now confirm that patrick, a respected 34-year veteran pilot was the captain. he had 6,000 hours of flight experience and had flown for germanwings for more than ten years. meanwhile, authorities begin
their effort to determine why andreas chose to crash the plane, killing all innocent 149 victims. there was torn up notes found from a doctor declaring the pilot unfit for work on the day of the crash, and the "wall street journal" and new york times report he was treated for depression, all this as searchers are on the mountain side searching for remains, and as they are, they are looking for the critical second black box containing the flight's data recorder. let's talk about all of this. perhaps even the history of the plane's co-pilot. let's bring in our panel dr. mitchell garber senior managing consultant for esi, and diane damos, a psychologist involved in pilot selection for the u.s. military for more than 40 years,
and is a pilot and worked with commercial airlines and john is a former air marshal and fbi agent, and, all right, so to all of you, everything that we have learned so far that dabbles a little bit in his physical condition and maybe his mental health but nothing is definitive definitive and they have not verified reporting from the "new york times and "wall street journal", but, doctor, to you first. what is most concerning about some of the reports that there may have been -- there may have been a situation in which the exgirlfriend observed something about his behavior or that there was some pair know ya but it appears that the airline is maintaining its position or at least not revealing much about knowing about his medical or physical state. >> yeah there have been some
reports that suggest that maybe there was some issues during his training or during his early career that may have come to the attention of the airlines and i think there's going to be a lot of attention paid to what they knew what things were available to them and what they did as far as evaluation treatment, and monitoring of this pilot. did -- did what nay do was that enough. >> so i wonder would that be an issue when if the airline knew he had to remove himself from training for six months, how much information has to be revealed by patient pilot he's ready to resume training? >> well here in the states if it's an outside medical doctor as we've been discussing before there's no requirement for that medical doctor outside the faa medical doctor to reveal any information, but, to me that's disturbing. if he brought up a red flag in the training process for
whatever reason, performance or some sort of issue, personal issue, albeit a mental issue, i certainly, as the airline, would have taken him aside, talked about it at the minimum and possibly discuss his future. >> and, diane, what is peculiar about the details we're hearing from these publications in your view? >> well from everything i can determine, andreas passed the lufthansa pilot cadet process. this is a very extensive process taking several days to administer. it's one of the best civilian pilot selection systems in the world, and he would have been seen both interviewed and observed by several clinical psychologists, so either he did not have these problems at the time, or he managed to present
very very well. >> and, john since most of the information we understand has to be self-reported, and it was not self-reported by this you know pilot pilot pilot patient, wouldn't you expect his colleagues to observe something or customary for, you know your fellow pilots or flight attendants to report or say, i noticed something strange about him, he was disturbed, because of these things being reported? seems like there was some public behavior or he emoted in a way publicly he may have been frustrated with the exgirlfriend says is correct, and this note from a doctor is correct. >> well i think you have a couple issues going on there. one, all of these different things like self-reporting the different pilots going to different doctors, none of this stuff is really structured in a way, particularly to look for these types of things.
i know in the military we have pure evaluations, pure evaluations are great because if one person flies with him and another person flies with him, they evaluate especially with someone with just over 600 hours, there's a pattern of behavior. i think the real problem here is that he was -- it did not sound like someone depressed, retreating inward seeing a change of behavior. you know pilots you know just by nature are go-getters and somebody who has anger issues a lot of the times, that can be confused for somebody who just has a very type a personality, which a lot of pilots do and if a person wants to hide that behavior or may not think he has a problem as far as suicide goes you may not see it. >> and, you know it's hard to know whether we'll get any answers about his medical condition or his physical condition, but i wonder doctor there are certain medications that would not be allowed for a pilot to take and from what i
read medication for adhd add is medication that cancels out your ability or an airline does not want to take a risk on you if you are taking that medicine. are there other common medications or conditions that would rule out the fitness of a pilot? >> certainly. the regulators have extensive regulations about what can and cannot be considered consistent with safe flight so there's vision issues cardiovascular issues mental issues other health issues any of which could end a pilot's career medications not consistent with flight not allowed in flight and this comes out through self-reporting making it difficult for the regulateors to know what's going on with the pilot, who may not have the motivation to report these things. >> if most information comes from self-reporting now this
co-pilot is dead, along with 150 other people will we have to rely on his doctors to now reveal you know what his situation was, diane? i mean would you know the answer to that? i mean how will we ever know if the airline was already counting on self-reporting and he's no longer here how do we get to the bottom of what his condition might have been? >> well i think most of the information is going to have to come from the doctors. they can go back and look at his scores and the comments that occurred during the initial selection process, but, again, since he passed through that the clinical psychologists did not see anything at the time. >> what's the best guess on how that happens? how will we ever really know? >> it's a good point, but i mean i would think that not my area of expertise, of course but i mean, this is a criminal investigation in this point in time and so i think that
information probably is going to have to be divulged privately to families and so and and so forth. i have to brespond. there was an interesting point with reference to pure evaluation. we have something similar with faa regulation. we go down for recurrent training and there's a lot of aspects to that training that goes beyond ground school and simulator performance, so there is some of that during that process. >> and jonathan what do you think will be revealed in the investigation, what is feasible? what is possible? >> well you know fred i'm not really as concerned about his mental mental capacity as i am seeing policies change that forward
think these things. as a specialist i can think like a bad guy. structures catch bad people with nefarious thoughts in mind. however, if it's continuous structure, and that's not periodically evaluated, bad guys learn to get around that structure. you need good policy and then you need that policy to be revaluated before something happens, an i think that is something that really kind of helped this actually happen was that policies were not reevaluated. >> doctor do you see anything on that notion? >> well, i think, some places have requirements for physicians to report conditions. i think that's probably a good start for a lot of places that do not already have that and for those places that do not require reporting of interval conditions as positions change between exams. that's also a good way to go. >> thank you to all of you, i appreciate it. of course you at home tweet us your questions at
at #germanwingsqs @cnn. our expermits will answer those ahead. iranian experts hit a snag and one side says there is progress. we go there next for the latest. if you're running a business legalzoom has your back. over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here. everyone wants to switch to t-mobile. but your carrier has you locked up paying off a phone. not anymore. now t-mobile will pay off your phone. stuck in a contract? we've got you covered there too. anyone can tease you with a lower price for a limited time. only t-mobile guarantees your price will never go up.
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days before the deadline. negotiations are held north of gee knee that. let's go live now to our correspondent at the talks in lausanne switzerland. what's the latest? >> reporter: well fred it seems the iranians are holding out. we are told the iranians are playing hardball on a few key issues namely the amount of research and development they can do on advanced nuclear technology while the deal's in effect. obviously, international community trying to limit that and put tight curves on that, and also the pace and scope of lifting sanctions against iran. iransians irans wants them lifted day one, and the u.s. says they need to be phased out and certain legal restrictions where they cannot do that. listen to iran make a decision now. do you want to deal or not? they feel that this is the best deal iran is going to get,
iranian foreign minister says they want a deal but remaining firm on key issues fred? >> all right. tuesday is the deadline. will this be a case for they are working morning, noon and night? >> well, they are working around the clock, a lot of meetings some with the iranian foreign minister and now the german and french foreign minister came meeting with them and john kerry, a lot of configurations a lot of desire for a deal issue and everyone says they want a deal, but the question is as sides reach a red line someone has to compromise international community says it needs to be iran and iran says the rest of the party needs to compromise. they went sfazas far as they can, fred. >> thank you so much. coming up will we will know what was on hillary clinton's e-mails on her personal server? we are live in washington. erin? >> reporter: the congressman
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care that never quits. appointments available now. jamie grace grew up dreaming of being a singer/song writer but before she could begin pursuing music, she got news that put her dreams on hold. at 12 she was diagnosed with tourettes syndrome. >> i wanted to be a singer. i had noed idea what it was. i just found clips from movies of these actors yelling and cursing, and i saw that and cried my eyes out. >> instead of letting her
condition silence her, she turned to youtube. she posted videos of herself singing two years after her diagnosis. she got the attention of record labels and an online add jens. >> i didn't blow up but hi a cool response. >> now she's using her stage and her story to inspire others. ♪ i love the way you hold me ♪ >> starting a foundation i'm a fighter. >> it's daily stories of fighters a little kid with cancer or a hard working father. i really hope that my songs connect with people and i really want to bring them them encouragement. >> cnn reporting. amanda knox says she's glad to have her life back after her eight year conviction is over. initially, her and her boyfriend were convicted of murdering a
british student in 2007. they served four years before an appeals court overturned convictions for lack of evidence and set them free. she returned home to seattle. two years later, retried and found guilty again. she was facing 28 and a half years behind bars. she says she's relieved the italian high court overturned that conviction. >> i prefer not to answer questions. i just -- i just wanted to say that i'm incredibly grateful for way has happened for the justice i've received for the support that i've had from everyone from my family from my friends, to strangers, to people like you. i -- it -- you saved my life and i'm so grateful and i am so grateful to have my life
backing. thank you. that's all i can say. i'm -- right now, i'm still absorbing what all of this means, and what -- what comes to mind is my gratitude for the life that's been given to me. >> what does the future hold for you now? >> i don't know. i'm still absorbing the present moment which is full of joy. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> you know other than again, we're so grateful i mean, i know you're here but we really just need time as a family to digest and, again, so thankful that everything's finally right. >> i'm, she was my friend and
it's -- she deserved so much in this life. i'm the lucky one. thank you. thank you. >> we can't do that now. thank you so much. >> her former boyfriend was also cleared friday night. and there's a new development in the hillary clinton e-mail saga. the gop lawmaker who subpoenaed her e-mail messages says clinton deleted them all from her private server. they requested e-mails as part of the probe in the attack in benghazi libya, but how is the deletion of this material on the server in conflict with what traditionally happens at the state department on government servers? >> reporter: fred remember there's new policies in place. we learned hillary clinton
deleted those e-mails in december of last year. now, we did just get a letter that clinton's lawyer, david kendal sent to tray a nine page letter explaining she was really following the law. i'll read part of the letter to you saying she was following from the state department and record agency the policies that make clear that reliance on individual officials to make decisions as to what e-mails are preserved adds federal record is not an arrangement, precedented, or unique, but the normal procedure carried out by tens of thousands of agency officials and employees in the ordinary course. in other words, what he is saying she should be turning over the server so an independent arbiter can look at the e-mails. her lawyer sayings no the state department looks at them first to determine what is sensitive information, but as far as an arbiter, the government employee is the person who makes the determination about what is a personal e-mail and what is an
e-mail that is in any way related to the government official's job, and that clinton has the ability to look through her e-mails and determine that for herself, and she did that. >> is there a response from republicans after the attorney spelled that out in. >> reporter: absolutely. chairman reince preibus said even knickson didn't destroy the tapes, and said hillary clinton went through extreme lengths to delete the e-mails and went above and beyond what she should have done. they are making this look as bad as they can for clinton. >> thank you so much. recovery effort at the site of the germanwings crash facing challenges in the terrain and the weather. he claimed the mountain in the area to see what kind of challenges the crews are facing. that's next. progressive insurance here and i'm a box who thrives on the unexpected.
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hello, again, everyone thank you for joining me. we have significant new developments in the germanwings crash citing two sources close to the investigation. the new york times is reporting the co-pilot was treated for vision problems and lubitz's girlfriend told a tabloid she feared him, and we learned the identity of the plane's captain. the captain had 6,000 hours of flight experience flown for more than ten years, and meanwhile, authoritying continue the effort to discover why lubitz chose to take down the plane. they found up torn up doctor's notes declaring the co-pilot unfit for work on the day of the crash. all this as recovery teams continue the treacherous hunt for crash victims.
the search could take weeks. they are also looking for the second black box containing the data recorder. the families of the victims are trying to come to terms with the germanwings crash. relatives and friends of the deceased gathered today in an area near the site where their loved ones died holding prayers where near the crews set up recovery operations. loved ones brought flowers and pictures to the service as they mourned lives lost. meanwhile, recovery crews face a daunting task as they try to find remains of the victims. there are only two ways to get to the crash site by helicopter or by foot. we are shown how difficult that task is. >> swinging on a wire they recover the remains, hundreds of feet below emergency crews cling to the mountain side just so they don't fall.
investigators say the speed of the crash pull verized plane and passengers. recovery operation, they say, is bit by bit, bag by bag. you can just pick out small red flags rescuer dig in the earth when they discover new fragments. and that looks like a scorch mark. the french prosecutor says the plane hit the mountain bounced off, and then disintegrated. it's a tough hike in rugged mountains and steep valleys. in order to understand why some rescuers describe this as their biggest ever challenge, we tried to get closer to the crash zone. >> there was a little frost this morning, and now the sun's coming down no sign of snow just yet. conditions up here are two
inhospitable. >> getting up here is literally hanging on to tree roots, and we can see the crash site by helicopter. the blades help us pinpoint the site from our vantage point, there's teams working with expert mountaineers to keep them safe. high winds make flying treacherous. saying farewell is never easy. perhaps those grieving could find a little consolation amid these cracks peace of the running water, peace of snow capped peaks, peace to loved ones lost cnn, the french alps. >> the co-pilot was alone behind
the door when he sent the plane on a fatal dissent. passengers and crews were powerless to stop him. many now wonder could someone on the ground have taken control of the plane remotely and guided it to a safe landing? here's cnn's tom foreman. >> it was just enough time to shut it all down. >> reporter: watch closely. this plane in england has a crew at the controls passengers in the back but something extraordinary is going to happen. a pilot on the ground is taking over. >> ready to control. >> proceed. >> i have control. >> you have control. >> this is the 94 million project by the british aerospace company, bae, one of several efforts around the world to develop planes to be flown remotely. >> what you hear at the moment is the discussion with that traffic that's exactly the same discussion the pilots would have if they are in charge of the steering of the aircraft. military success with drones has
driven much of the interest. some efforts are focused on airplanes in hazardous conditions like hurricane research and fighting wildfires. pilotless planes could be a $400 billion a year global business so why not pmg flights? first the airline industry has a remarkable safety record despite high profile disasters, and many believe on board pilots remain the most reliable way to handle problems and retrofitting planes costs millions of dollars, and, second, passengers may not be ready. >> i'll start by asking myself that question how do i feel about getting in there without pilots and i wouldn't do it. >> there's questions about reliability, and there are unanswered questions, for example, if you want to make the plane safe by having a ground station control so a terrorist cannot take over up here what
if they take over down here? now the plane is in their control, and they are not on board. one possible solution is you have more than one ground station. they have to work in tandem. that sort of defeats that problem, but does not answer another question. what if you have a hacker who interrupts the data stream and takes over the plane anyway? that's why this is a little more complicated than it seems. >> that was cnn reporting, and keep tweeting questions at #german wings, and our experts will answer them in minutes. still ahead, a horrifying attack on a commuter train all because of a cell phone and a question about michael brown? plus arab heads of state meeting to stop yemen dissent into chaos. this as saudi arabia takes out the country's rebel targets. we are live at the summit in egypt next. y credit score...again. you should check out credit karma...they're like free.
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now to the fierce battle underway for control of yemen. a source says the saudi arabia led air strikes have taken out key military targets controlled by the shia rebels and earlier today in egypt, yemen's president addressed the arab league summit and foreign ministers suggested ground troops might be needed to defeat the rebels. we are at the summit and joining us now from the red sea resort
and so let's talk about what are the options that are being discussed there for taking control of yemen? >> >>. >> caller: a very long drawn out conflict is what people are saying here. as long as as six months. the country last week, perhaps not surprisingly with because he addressed the arab leaders here at the summit earlier on today, not mincing words saying it would be iran who effectively created chaos in his country, and saying he blames around for what happens and what happens going forward, and that is really the big question here. what does happen next? king solomon saying that they have no choice that they are exhausted all options, and that he and the arab allies were left
only with military intervention as their option. there have. dissenting voices here among the arab leaders gathered at the red sea resort not least iraq who said that it is nonsense to suggest that iran is behind the regional turmoil here and also suggesting that saudi have been hasty in the intervention in yemen. the secretary general ban ki moon here insisting that political dialogue is the only way forward to solve this crisis but, clearly, what we are seeing here is a lot of efforts on behalf of the yemenese the saudis and others here. the sense is one of concern amongst people behind closed doors, opening the idea of sectarian conflict going forward with an iran-saudi proxy war, and the context to this to
remember that we have these talks going on in iran between -- in switzerland, sorry, between iran and the u.s. desperately trying to negotiate some sort of conclusion before the deadline to the talks on the nuclear negotiations and i think that you know there's been concern here and perhaps in washington as well this could really throw this into the works, but certainly the sense is spector of an all-out sectarian war here in the region very much concerning those who are on the fringes of this conference today. >> beck si anderson thank you so much from egypt. straight ahead, experts answer your questions on the germanwings plane crash. keep them coming tweet tweet #germanwingqs @cnn. what the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers.
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we know you have questions about the germanwings plane crash, and we asked ewe to submit them on twitter. now we have the answers. let's bring in our panel from a crash nn analyst, and contributing editor to flying magazine and here in atlanta, dr. mitchell garber a medical officer and senior managing
consultant for esi. gentleman, you first on a question coming to us via twitter from lilac, why does the system allow reprogramming altitude from 38,000 to 100 feet? what circumstance would require that drastic change? >> there was only one circumstance and it's not reprogramming, but setting a mode control panel, but there's only one drastic circumstance and that's an explosive depressurization to get the airplane down immediately for breathing purposes but what happened here was just a simple matter of operating the machine knowing it well enough if he entered a hundred feet, the plane descends depending what mode of dissent he selected. >> okay and, mitch, lynn wants to know this why don't airlines adopt requirement like cdl medical ser tiff cants? the doctor does not sign off if you're unfit and not break hipa
laws. that to you, mitch. >> well part of the problem is that the cdl is a government requirement, commercial driver's licenses and doctors who do that may not be the person's private position. that program modelled now after the faa's program will be a requirement to have that independent physicians actually giving that information to the government. you can't always get the information that you want from the individual though and that's the -- that's the crux of this matter is that all of these, commercial driver's licenses faa pilot certificates and all of this requires the individual to give to the system. >> all self-reporting. >> and, here's another question. couldn't airlines move to drone technology if something happens like this someone on the ground comes online and takes over? >> well let me put the question
back to the person that asked it. are you comfortable with not having anybody in the cockpit or just one person in the cockpit? i think the answer is not so much. >> i wonder if they mean more in overriding strg strange is happening, and someone on the ground takes over? >> if that's the case it's still begs to question on how are they going to stop a situation like this in other words, they would -- it seems a little difficult if a pilot has control of the aircraft how they can remotely take it away from them. that's my only answer to that one. >> okay. and, mitch this next question from buzzy, is the doctor who cited lubitz unfit accountable in any way? >> well that's going to be a very interesting question. we've got a criminal investigation going on right now, and, of course one of the things they are looking at is who knew what when? did this physician have an
obligation to report? did this physician know this pilot was going to be flying a plane that day? are there other physicians who may have been treating them with the same awareness. to what extent do they have this to report? that's a mayor focus going forward. >> and that's how impactful it could be with changes and policy. >> that's correct. i think what's going to have to happen is how are we going to actually get to that and then do we necessarily want to be putting ourselves in between patients and treatment to what extent is that going to be reasonable and necessary for this tripe type of safety issues? >> to you, les, is it possible for any drastic changes to a normal flight plan require the input of two pilots? >> well just in a normal preflight duties it requires input of two pilots.
we work in harmony together. when we do a course change just has a for instance we verify if that course change is correct no matter who is entering it the other pilot who is entering in puts it in and the other pilot responds if it's a correct situation. if i could just respond to some of what was said. >> sure. >> with reference to self-disclosure aspect there's a disadvantage to it that we brought to light here but the doctors that are not familiar with aero medicines could potentially suspend or end the career of the pilot without understanding fully what he's dealing with so i mean, that i just want to explain that's a fear of airline pilots to some extent. they sometimes we don't disclose that that's our employment. >> all right. thank you to both of you gentleman. appreciate it. thanks for your probing questions at home.
appreciate it. straight ahead, a horrifying attack on a commuter train all because of a cell phone and question about? michael brown. people ship all kinds of things. but what if that thing is a few hundred thousand doses of flu vaccine. that need to be kept at 41 degrees. while being shipped to a country where it's 90 degrees. in the shade. sound hard? yeah. does that mean people in laos shouldn't get their vaccine? we didn't think so. from figuring it out to getting it done, we're here to help. i forgot a map. so i got out my phone. i have verizon. i don't.
so i found us on the trail map and took the only easy way down. it wouldn't load. so i made a left turn, into a double black diamond. i have never felt closer to them. i'd never felt more terrified. my son said thank you. my daughter fell into a creek. i'm not popular. vo: join us and save without settling. verizon. you can call me shallow... but, i have a wandering eye. i mean, come on.
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>> reporter: ambushed on the metro, cell phone video catches this assault on a 43-year-old white man. >> when i was punched in the face my glasses split the skin here between the bridge of my nose. >> reporter: the victim asked his name not be used for safety reasons, said what hurts him the most is out of the all the people who witnessed the attack no one stopped to help. according to the police report the assault began at 10:00 p.m. monday night when one of the suspects asked to use the victim's phone, and when the victim refused -- >> he asked my opinion on the michael brown thing, and i responded, i'm too tired to think about it right now, and he stood up and next thing i know he sucker punches me in the middle of my face. >> reporter: the attacker punched him at least a dozen times before exiting the train with two others. police are looking inging for the three men described to be in their early 20s.
kmox says they spend $10 million a eurofor off duty officers and security. >> what we're doing in response is talking to st. louis city our partner in the city about how they can increase their patrols and increase their protection of our system. >> i think it was discussing that no one, people were sort of laughing and smiling about it and no one offered to help. >> reporter: three suspects on the run. as far as the victim is concerned, suffered only superficial injuries and not hospitalized but he says he's not going to take the train now for fear of his own safety. >> close call. all right, thank you so much, nick appreciate that. that's all for us here in the "news room", and thank you for being with us this afternoon. more "news room" straight ahead with poppy harlow.