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tv   CNN Newsroom With Poppy Harlow  CNN  March 29, 2015 11:00am-4:01pm PDT

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at 85 i don't think i reached my father's 94. >> he was right. lee kuan yew died on march 23 at the age of 91. that is our show today, thanks to all of you for being part of it i will see you next week. hello, everyone and thank you for joining us. we begin with breaking news. stunning new details today about the last minutes of the germanwings flight that crashed in the alps last weekend killing all on board. the german magazine is reporting that the co-pilot encouraged the plane's pilot to take a bathroom break. and when the pilot left investigators say it was at that point that the co-pilot locked himself in the pock kit and
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intentionally began its decent into the mountain side. the paper is reporting that he suffered from generalized anxiety disorder. it also says that in 2009 lubitz also suffered from severe depression symptoms and in 2010 he even received injections of and an tie sky cottic medication. and two sick notes from doctors were funding in his apartment. they apparently were meant to excuse lubitz from work on the day of the crash. and as i mentioned, the german tabloid magazine is reporting more details of the timeline of what happened in the last minutes of the germanwings flight. will ripley has been following the story for us and he's joining us from cologne, germany, what else is in this timeline will? >> reporter: if the newspaper's
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account is accurate in this cockpit voice recording, in an hour and a half of audio, this was a deliberate act that results in the deaths of 150 people and 149 of them were helpless on this plane, aware that something was wrong for a full eight minutes before the flight hit the french alps. horrifying to think about. some key things in the reporting, first of all, before the plane even took off, the pilot cold his co-pilot that he hadn't gone to the bathroom in barcelona. this was a two-hour flight from barcelona to dusseldorf. because had the pilot used the restroom before hand perhaps he would have stayed in the cockpit the spare time and the co-pilot would not have had the opportunity to do what happened in the subsequent minutes. at 2:27 a.m. the plane reached it's cruising altitude of 3,800
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feet. lubitz told his pilot, you can go now, you can go to the bathroom. you can hear pilot's seat pulling back. at 10:29 p.m. this is when lubitz locked the can beockpit. what would have had to happen was a manual input in the controls in the cockpit for the plane to start moving down towards the french alps. at 10:32, you hear air traffic controllers trying to contact the plane, they're getting no answer from the cockpit, then there's an alarm going on. it's telling the person at the controls that the plane is descending too rapidly, that's when you also start to hear a loud banging on the door that is the captain who's screaming for god's sake open the door and that's also when you can start to hear passengers screaming in the background. that's 10:32 a.m., and the plane
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didn't crash for another eight minutes. it just gets more horrifying. at 10:25 a.m. you start to hear loud metallic bangs, this is thought to be the pilot trying to break the door down. the plane detects that the ter terrain is getting closer. you can hear the captain saying open the damned door. all of this while passengers are in the back looking out the window they're seeing the ground coming up closer you current to hear those screams, the plane only about 13,000 feat elevation, two minutes later, 10:40 a.m. a sound that they believe was the plane's right wing scraping the mountain top and then more screaming and then the recording goes silent. and it just goes to show a deliberate act. it is horrifying. >> so will given this kind of information now, what's next for the investigation is the issue
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focusing on the co-pilot and what drove him to this point or is there another direction or something else giving this kind of info? >> reporter: keep in mind that this investigation had been a manslaughter investigation so far, so the key question is going to be was this manslaughter, was it premeditated murder. because lubitz would have had no way of knowing on a two-hour flight that the captain was going to get up and leave the cockpit, so that was his motive of opportunity. when you look at all the factors that led up to this day, and led up to taking this action did he just seize the moment that he realized that there was going to be a moment that he was going to be alone in the cockpit that he was going to do this. that's why you have investigators looking so closely at all the documents, everything that was hid from lufthanza, all of these things and they'll
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have to figure out how to move in regard from there. >> alarming material there. there are even more troubling questions today that are being raised as a result of what's being reported we're going to bring in our panel. alastair rosen -- and aviation attorney and jacqueline brunetti is a cba medical examiner. this is all troubling information, whether it be the transcripts or what other newspapers across the globe are reporting. the french newspaper says it has information about the long history of mental issues of this co-pilot including one time when he was given anti psychotic medication so alastair to you first, because i remember hearing you when you were talking to wolf blitzer the other day, and your prediction seems to have some true in a
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sense, that it was as if he had a bomb in his brain, so if all of this medical information showing a history of very severe kind of medication it sounds like it may have indeed been just that. how do you sort through this kind of info. >> it's extraordinarily that the airline, or more importantly the regulatory authorities in germany didn't know about his mental and his physical condition. i mean it's vital that the airlines and the regulator know when a pilot's unfit to fly. clearly this chap was in the very high risk category and it also seems from other people's reports that he had been planning this for some time there are some indications of that. it's quite worrying only on the positive side it's very rare, and there can't be many people flying in this sort of -- with
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this sort of mental disorder. but it's very important that all medical authorities are aware, if one of their patients is a pilot and take the precaution to go and notify the authorities. >> so jacqueline as an aviation medical examiner how does this information be sorted through and what is it investigators want to know and how much will it show that the airline knew or perhaps was indeed kept in the dark? because to alastair's point it seems ss if the illness was so severe, there had sobto be some symptoms that something was awry in this eyesgentleman? >> as the story unfolds, if he actually indeed had a psychotic episode in 2010 it's hard to
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believe that it was not known by at least the people that were close to him. whether or not his employer knew we can't say, and certainly lufthanza says they were unaware, it was probably -- unless again, if he self-declared, otherwise, those records would not be available to the airline. >> so, on the investigative end, and there's going to be a lot of questions on the part of the survivors of these passengers and there's going to be a host of questions that will say, how complicit, how responsible is the airline? did it know? how far back might it have known about his mental health why didn't it intervene? what are some of the questions that you expect that they will have to answer very soon? >> well we hope and expect that they will answer those questions. i'm sure as the days and weeks unfold there will be more
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information about his mental state that was known to at least some people co-workers. in terms of the lawsuit, the airline is absolutely responsible and on the hook has no defenses and will pay full damages. >> even though the airline would be able to say, we didn't know he was going to take this opportunity at this moment. >> under the 1999 convention the airline is responsible unless it can show it did absolutely nothing wrong, or a third party was solely responsible. and an airline acts through it's pilot, this is the airline's pilot that did something wrong, so the airline has no defense at all under the convention and knows it's going to pay full damages. the problem is the vast majority of the people can cannot sue the airline in the united states. and this is the only country where you get meaningful
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recoveries. >> and alastair do you see that the airline will try to say, we didn't know and that's our best defense, that we didn't know his ability, we realize that there is this privacy between a patient and doctor, we weren't are privy to the all of this information and so because of that we're just as stunned as everybody else? >> no clearly, they can't use that defense. i mean there is corporate liability, they mowknow full well that peoples are subject to all the various illnesses, psych lodge come and physical they have frequent medical. every airline has it's own medical department they will know whether or not their crews are fit and if they're not doing the proper checks then clearly they're responsible for it. no question about it. >> i know we're running out of time. but isn't there some responsibility on the med come community, these doctors that were another administering any
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kind of injection or giving him any sort of treatment, writing the note they know why would there not be an obligation maybe jacqueline to you, why would there not be an obligation to those doctors to say something knowing that many lives are in this pilot's hands? >> fredericka you're right, in the united states although we have hipaa laws which cover patient confidentiality, there are times when there is danger to the greater public when those laws are suspended and you can report without the patient's consent. but you would have to be very careful when doing that. and do it under the appropriate circumstances. but there are provisions for such reporting. >> okay and then we're going to talk more to all of you. thanks so much jacqueline jim and alastair. thanks so much. all right, so they are sticking around to answer some
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of your questions, and if you're sending us questions via twitter. but first, more horrifying moments in another plane when it skidded off the run way. >> when the plane hit initially, it bounced back up into the air. >> the airline says it's a hard landing, but passengers well they do not agree. the details straight ahead. if you don't think seize the trip when you think aarp then you don't know "aarp". get inspired with aarp travel. plan and book your trip online and get hot travel tips from the pros.
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look at this one. it's got a great view of the lake. it's really nice mom. ♪ your dad would've loved this place. you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. zillow all right, some pretty terrifying moments for 130 passengers on an air canada flight early this morning. the airbus skidded off the run way in nova scotia. there's a lot of damage on that plane, part of the nose missing and according to air canada 25 people suffered nonlife-threatening injuries. nick was there weather that was, you know made an impact
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here? >> yeah fredericka, that was a snowstorm at the time of the incident that this weather was appropriate for landing. >> reporter: early sunday morning on final approach from toronto into a snowy halifax, air canada flight 624 came down hard. >> we were coming in to land and we heard a very big bump and very hard. then i hit my head and we had another big bang and then we just -- everyone just started to say get out, get out, get out. >> reporter: airline and parent r airport officials called it a hard landing. >> what's the difference between a crash and a hard landing? >> a crash is when the aircraft doesn't make it to the gate. >> why is this not caused a crash? >> that will be determined. >> passengers say they know what
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they felt. >> it's not a hard landing, it's a crash. all the landing inging gears are off the run way, the engines are off of it. >> that's all we know it's just a hard landing. >> we heard that on landing on face book the aircraft had a hard landing. >> reporter: these photos taken after the crash shows severe damage to the plane's wing and nose. of the 138 on board, 35 were hospitalized. >> would you tell us who you have arm your neck? >> that's for neck injuries and back injuries. >> halifax international airport temporarily suspended takeoffs and landings right after to the
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incident. but the airline would not give specifics about the damage. >> we heard it completely lost a wing can you confirm that? >> no i can't. >> reporter: passengers still processing the experience say things could have been much worse. >> we're lucky and glada we all made it. nobody was like badly injured. >> reporter: canada's transportation safety board is investigating the incident. air canada has released a statement that we are greatly relieved that no one was critically injured. we are focused on caring for all of those affected we will also fully cooperate with the transportation safety board as it begins to determine what happened. >> that's pretty startling stuff, just seeing the images there, and the passengers they're calling it as they see it and as they felt it. >> they're calling it semantics, it's not a hard landing, it was a crash. >> unbelievable that they were
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able to walk away. still ahead, negotiations are under way, they are trying to beat that tuesday deadline to come up with a nuclear deal with iran. with a look at where the negotiations stand. approximate . >> reporter: those nuclear negotiations are in the end game but will there be a deal? we're live from luzan after the break.
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. nothing is certain innerian's -- the iranian foreign minister and his counter parts from france china, russia britain and generation are all in lausanne switzer land. cn's global correspondent is there covering the talks. good to see both of you. at least to you first, are the sides any closer? >> well fred all of those ministers are now here and the discussions have really intensified over the last 24 hours and diplomats the see the
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congress contours of a deal taking shape but it's possible it won't come until the end of tuesday's deadline. these negotiations are very hard the discussion is very focused, very intense and very tough. and the iranians are known as master negotiators, but there are still key things that have not been revolved. iran wants the security council sanctions wanted them lifted on day one. the international community wants to phase them out as iran shows compliance with the deal and there's also how much research and -- the international community wants to keep very tight limits on that but iran is really looking as the deal progresses to be able to keep up with it's nuclear technology so tomorrow is
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supposed to be a very tense day of negotiations negotiators say all sides want to debt to a deal. really at this point, it's unclear, fred but as we reach the 11th hour that's when everybody says the real bargaining begins. >> so all of those who are part of these negotiations they want to some way cut off this pathway to a nuclear bomb and at the same time they want to have some kind of oversight, they want to be able to watch, pay attention to what iran does over the course of time. but you have written that this really is quite simple it's about war versus peace and you're saying that combe tuesday, if there is no deal that iran and israel could potentially be at war and it would be a war and a mess unlike anything that ning knows. >> extraordinary mess in the middle east but if we take the question of iran's nuclear program in isolation, then it is a question of war or peace
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because iran is not going to give up all of its nuclear rights as it sees it it is still going to maintain the possibility that it could at some point develop a nuclear weapon israel is going to continue to feel threatened by that, but this deal again, taken in isolation, is probably going to be the best deal that can be had. it will stop or stall iran's development of the weapon for some considerable amount of time give the world a little bit of breathing room on this question and avert the likelihood that israel would take matters into its own hands and start a war that the united states would probably have to try to finish. but it's not happening in isolation. it's happening in the midst of a moment of huge chaos in the middle east where iran has become a very aggressive player. and really the problem here is we're dealing with two different irans, one is the president rohani foreign ministers, the
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people who are are laussiane right now, we can reach a deal we can reach negotiation. and then there's the revolutionary guards offer iran and it's expanding all of its powers around the region. so all of that is in play right now. it's a very difficult and danger situation. >> so is elease is there a feeling amongst those that are at the table there france, china, generationrmany, russia and the u.s. is there a feeling that iran could potentially take matters into its own hands, if there is in fact a deal reached, imperfect as it may be is there an expressed worry among all of these ally that israel will ignore this deal if there is a deal and go on about its own business and make the next move toward iran in an aggressive
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way? >> well that's always in the back of everyone's mind and you saw today prime minister netanyahu say his fears are worse than anybody else's fears and it goes into play wherer rang is backing the houthis there, and prime minister netanyahu said they're trying to take over the midwestdle east. but there is pressure 20 get a deal can, because israel can't take action on its own, it would need the united states and i don't think there would be a deal if they were willing to do that. and as the prime minister said, all options are on the table. >> all right, thanks to both of you, i'm going to see you again, both of you later in the next hour thanks so much. all right, also still to come new developments from the crash site of the germanwings plane and progress in the
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hello again and thank you for joining us. surprising new details in the crash of that germanwings plane crash. there's a timeline based on the cockpit viz recorder. the flight captain told the co-pilot lewubitz that he had not been able to go to the bathroom. and as -- followed by loud metallic bangs on the door as the captain again demands to be let in builds reports, alarm sounds in the cockpit passengers can be heard screaming and that
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is followed by what sounds like a wing hitting the mountain and more screams and then silence. we have also learned that the french defense ministry sends a fighter jet to the site of the crash of the airliner. co-pilot suffered from generalized an anxiety disorder and from severe depression in the past the paper also reports that lubitz received injections of anti psychotic meditation in 2010. and police found antidepressants in lieuubitz's apartment. you spoke to family members today, of at least one of the
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crash victims and what was said? >> reporter: yeah absolutely fredericka as you can imagine, a lot of the grieving families are trying to seek solace and privacy from the madeedia at this time and it's a tragedy that transcends generaltions and it was the insistence of a -- tell us about her brother's life. she had been in barcelona and this is what she said about big brother. >> he was my everything he was the only one in my childhood, you know you have the big brother, you always have some security with him, you can rely on him. he was so good we had a good
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relationship friendship. >> reporter: now the family members, including lubitz' sister are ---they can only get about 2 1/2 miles away, i described the scene because i i hiked up there just a couple of days ago. i'm told there's an area where wild flowers are growing right now and the melting snow is filling crystal screams and at the end of that interview, she turned away and she looked at the mountains and pointed up and said you know my brother now, he's king of the alps. >> so sad. already, thank you so much. appreciate it. all right now to the fierce battle under way for control of
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yemen, some major developments today at the arab summit in egypt. leaders have agreed to a unified military force in the region and are demanding that those iranian backed houthi rebels drop their weapons and leave the capital city. and in saudi arabia last night trucks were seen hauling tanks on a highway headed south toward yemen about 20 miles from the border. cnn's becky anderson is in egypt and joins us live now. with the tanks on the move it appears this is more than just talk about a ground invasion but it looks like it might be im imminent imminent? >> reporter: that's right. i spoke to the foreign minister here in the wee hours of the morning, they have been thrashing out this communique here the arab leaders and he told me we could see boots on the ground within days, and he stuck to that.
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as a saudi-led offensive from the air, continues to build against houthi rebels there is now a really good chance that thousands of arab boots on the ground could be deployed to further degrade what is this iran backed militia. why do we scare about this? what we goes on in yemen doesn't stay in yemen. and what anybody will agree with this or not in the region you've pretty much got the sense that there is a proxy war going on here between iran and saudi, and so as you see iran back these houthi rebels, as you see iran so you see saudi encourage encouraging it's arab allies
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encouraging the declaration on arab military force going forward, you see saudi flexing its muscles. and don't forget there's a new leadership in saudi, a new young defense minister making his mark. not everything we heard here at the arab league summit and they did sign off on this agreement to deploy more forces if necessary, but there were dissenting voices and one of those was iraq and what iraq said is they believe that riyadh has simply been too hasty in that saudi-led invasion and they also said they the don't want to see military intervention as a whole across the region and what iraq wants to see is more political dialogue and that was also voiced by the international community here and that includes ban ki-moon, don't give up on this discussion, we haven't exhausted that, you may
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see further discussions in riyadh and also in other places. but be aware that we could see, within days as the foreign minister of yemen points out to me boots on the ground. and that would be a real ratcheting up of this endeavor. all right, indiana governor mike pence under fire for a new law in his state that lets businesses turn away gay, lesbian and transgender customers, and that's the interpretation of many about new law, but now the government is taking the chance to defend the law. shasta darlingston joins me from new york. >> reporter: that's right we have new comments from the govz for of indiana trying to put out that fire but he may be fueling for controversy, the details after this. the fun in that?
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maria sharpova spent much of her life living and training in florida. but there's one tight that eluded her, the university of florida.
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>> with all the palm trees around and with the -- sharpova moved to the sunshine state from russia when she was just 7 years old. >> i have loved this court ever since i was a young girl and you grow up going through all kinds of different experiences. >> she has yet to taste victory at the unofficial sixth grand slam. >> i've gotten really far in the toufrlt, but not able to win it. >> sharpova has been the runner up five times and came up short this year but she's far from giving up or giving in. >> we all want to hold the trophy and i really want to as well. indiana governor mike pence is defending his state's controversial new religious freedom law, some interpret it as saying it lets businesses use religion as a legal defense in turning away gay, lesbian and trans
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transgender customers. and today he addressed the media. shasta darlington joins me more on this did he make a convincing argument defending ingthis law? >> reporter: the governor said he would pen new legislation that would clairify the law, today we didn't get any new information about what that new election would be. really the governor considers this controversy a misunderstanding. >> was it a mistake to sign this law? >> absolutely not. >> reporter: indiana governor mike pence on the defense, under the new religious freedom law, that opponents say it will allow businesses to turn away gay and lesbian customers on religious grounds. pence blames the media. >> there's been a tremendous amount of misinformation and misunderstanding around this bill and i'm just determine, and i appreciate the time on your program, i'm just determined to clarify this. >> the firestorm comes amid
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criticism from business. ceos from apple to yelp lashing out. the ncaa preparing to host it's college basketball final four in indianapolis next weekend, saying we are especially concerned about how this legislation could aflgt our athletes and employees, charm barkley piling on the pressure as long as anti-gay legislation exists in any state, i strongly believe big events such as the final four and super bowl should not be held in those states' cities. >> i will not push for that. that's not on my agenda. this is not about discrimination this is about protecting the religious liberty of every hoosier of every faith. >> reporter: but deflecting repeated questions about its
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impact. >> yes or mo should it be legal to discriminate against gays and lesbians? >> george you're following the mantra of the last week online. >> reporter: the white house quick to react. >> and when you have a law like this one that's legitimizing discrimination it's important for everyone to stand up and speak out. >> reporter: there are 20 states with some sort of religious freedom law on the books, but the blow back in indiana could diskurj others from pursuing such laws. as far as damage control goes it's really not clear what impact these latest comments will have. he refused to answer at least six questions about whether the law legalizes discrimination against gays. like now indiana can florists refuse to provide flowers for gay weddings. the controversy could go on for a while. we're going to talk more about that in the next hour with
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our political panel. actually two hours from now. straight ahead, our aviation experts answer your questions on the germanwings plane crash. if you take multiple medications, a dry mouth can be a common side effect. that's why there's biotene. it comes in oral rinse spray or gel so there's moisturizing relief for everyone. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth.
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alastair jolley tweeted this i suggest the introduction of panic buttons for all flight crews to be used during emergencies. is this a good idea? >> i'm not sure what he means i by panic button what would be the outcome of having a panic button. if you look at this particular incident incident whether it would be the captain pressing the panic button or the flight attendants i'm not sure what good that would do. >> and cony wants to know would anti-aggression drugs show at
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the random required drug tests of fly crews after trips? >> drug testing is usually for knowledge prescription drugs and cocaine, anything that would be cocaine based, alcohol, marijuana, and nonprescription drugs. routine anti-depressant may not show depending on the chemistry of the drug. >> and most of public transportation has cctv cameras, so why not in the cockpit? >> i think cameras in the cockpit are a good idea it helps the investigation. of course here it would not have prevented this tragedy. what might have prevented it is if the airline followed what american air carriers are doing
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in requiring a second person in the cockpit who may have been able to unlock the door and let the captain in. >> and jim and dr. burnetti when do you draw the line between hipaa type laws and the public's right to know conditions of who's fly ing. to me it's reasonable for carriers to say, if you want 2 fly for us we want you to consent to spot checks of your medical records. i think that's an appropriate response without sacrificing privacy. >> and dr. burnetti? >> i would have to agree with that when something is so crucial that it's going to affect public safety, you have to act on that. >> yeah it would seem. alastair rosenshine dr.
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jacqueline burnetti and adam clinesman thank you very much. we are so much more in the newsroom and it all starts right after this. p. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ if you want a paint with no harsh fumes. if you want a paint without harmful chemicals. if you want a paint that's safer for your family, and the environment...
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and thank you for joining us. i'm fredericka whitfield. this is cnn breaking news. >> we begin with breaking news on the last minutes of the germanwings flight that killed all on board. the german magazine reporting that co-pilot andreas lubitz encouraged the pilot to take a break. it was at that point that the can co-pilot locked the door to the cockpit and began the descend into is mountain side. the paper is reporting that he suffered from quote, generalized anxiety disorder it also says that in 2009 lubitz also suffered from severe depression symptoms and in 2010 he even received injections of an anti-psychotic medication. as i mentioned, the german tabloid magazine build is
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reporting more details of the timeline about what happened in the last minutes of the germanwings flight. will ripley has been following the story for us and he's joining us from cologne germany, what is being said about the details of this timeline? >> reporter: [ no audio ] >> looks like we're having some audio problems we'll try to reconnect with will ripley. let's talk more then with my panel about today's new details. because they're raising even more equestions about how this co-pilot was allowed to continue to fly given what we have been reading in the newspaper about his bout with medical illness and the medications he may have been treated with. i want to bring in our panel, dr. mitchell garner is a senior management consultant. alastair rosenshine ask a former pilot and aviation consultant
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and jacqueline burnetti is a senior aviation medical examiner. we now have reports coming from a french newspaper and from a german tabloid, but it spells out that there is a fairly long history of mental issues including one time when he was given and an anti psychotic medication. when we talk about this anti psychotic medication and inswrekationinswrek ation injections related to that and the medication that he was taking. what is the severity of any mental illness. >> if you're going to be giving anybody an injectable anti psychotics, that's a medical breakdown. >> meaning it would be on full display? >> that's a situation, where you think you need to emergently need to treat this individual and those conditions would never
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be compatible with flight. if an employer became aware of that it seems very unlikely that they would have allowed that individual at any point in time to continue flying. >> here we're talking 2015 but there's documentation reaching back as par as 2009. and to hear that if you're in need of this kind of treatment you shouldn't be flying that means a lot of people paid attention, noticed what kind of medication he needed, there was somebody who had no know that he was coming from taking this kind of medication to flying in the cockpit. >> and to what extent that information was shared or shareable because there are protections on the a lot of information that can go to people. >> then it goes to the responsibility of wait a minute this is information that should be shared. >> that's exactly right. not even exactly the employer.
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the employer may not need to know that, but the regulator does have to have that information. >> i do want to get dr. burnetti and alastair's take on this as well. but we have reconnected to will ripley there in cologne about the timeline. will what more is being learned about this timeline and the events leading up to it? >> reporter: fred as you know this is being determined by the german tabloid build, and we're going on the newspaper's account of this. because this reporting has not been officially released it won't be officially released because frankly the content of it is so horrific. but if this is accurate fred this indicates that people on the plane, the passengers the pilot certainly, they knew for a full eight minutes before the plane crashed that something was seriously wrong and you can only imagine the terror that these
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people went through we hope in fact this account is not as it seems. so let me take you through it. 10:27 a.m., the plane reaches it's cruising altitude of 38,000 feet and at 10:27, the pilot was mentioning that he hadn't been able to go to the bathroom but his co-pilot andreas lubitz told him to go ahead and go to the restroom. you hear the captain leaving the cockpit and telling lew bitsz you can fake over. then at 10:28, the flight is starting to descend. at 10:32, air traffic control noticed something was wrong, they tried to get a hold of the plain, but didn't get an answer. nen there's the sink raid alarm, these are alampls that the passengers would have been able to hear.
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and at this point the pilot is banging on the door screaming for god's sake open the door. two minutes later at 10:35 a.m. the horror continues as the pilot tries to break his way into the cockpit. you can hear loud metallic bangs at 965 feet. there's 90 seconds of these continued alarms going off. actually saying that the for rain is getting dangerously close, telling the pilot to pull-up. lubitz isbreathing normally, but he's nolts ees's not responding to the captain who's saying open the damned door. and the pilot breathing normally in this recording. >> all right, heart stopping moments from will ripley. and the weather is very bad there in comelognecologne.
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the timeline is equally disturbing after these reports of the medical condition of this co-pilot andreas lubitz. dr. garber was just talking about this kind of treatment, very serious treatment for a very serious condition, so i wonder from you dr. bruneti, is it possible that when we hear that there's treatment from twine that it was made clear that there was severe depression symptoms being exhibited and in 2010 lubitz received injections of an anti psychotic medication so could he have gotten better we have a ripped up doctor's note that investigators found that perhaps he didn't exhibit any severe signs of mental depression and that may have
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helped justify why the army felt that he was fit to fly? >> those diagnoses are absolutesluabsolute denials of -- it's difficult to comprehend that this was unknown, but on the other hand not being a psychiatrist that severe a psychiatric illnesses, appropriate treatments i think, would be difficult to overcome. >> alastair i'm no medical professional. but just hearing this isn't this just outrageous? >> absolutely i mean i'm just stunned that all of this has been kept away from the regulatory authorities. of course they may have known this and made a decision that he was capable to fly, we don't know all the facts, but i'm sure
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all of this will be dug up at some point or another. speak as a retired pilot, when i was flying i would very much like to know if my colleague had some sort of psych yachtict psych yachtic -- psychiatric disorder. we're all judgmental about people we meet and work with. and occasionally i have flown with someone who has not been acting normally. and i have to say here that most pilots don't regularly fly with their same colleague on the flight deck. you may have met just before the flight but you notice very quickly if somebody's not acting normally, and you tellshould delve a little bit deeper but there are only two colleagues i have reported for acting strangely, one strangely enough was on my very first flight i suspected he had been drinking. another one was going through a
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marriage breakup and he was a bit tearful. clearly neither of those shoumtdld have been on the flight deck. >> when you talk about these injections in 2010 of an tie psychotic medication and it's a very severe treatment. it would seem you as a patient wouldn't have the wherewithal to know you're in trouble and you're going to take yourself to a doctor when you now need injections but somebody around you may have been witness to your behavior? >> amount of times we don't know where this is coming from. so we have to be careful about how we interpret it. but if in fact it is accurate we know that this individual did have a psychotic break, the police may have been involved. the authorities may have been involved and it's entirely possible is that this is an individual that was really incapable of taking care of
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themselves even if they were injected with an anti psychotic medication. >> it seems hard to believe, this that person would have been able to mask and we have some tabloid reporting, and even some "new york times" reporting, but it would seem hard to believe that a person could mask any kinds of symptoms that are associated with this kind of treatment. >> we have to be very careful here. but the fact is dying mow sis of psychosis and actually the definition of psychosis is a disconnection what realty, so i would think that would be very difficult to hide from the people around you. >> thanks to all of you, appreciate it. also straight ahead, u.s. secretary of state john kerry in switzerland trying to reach a nuclear deal with iran can the obama administration beat a dead lightning that is just now two days away. >> reporter: fred republicans are still threatening to stand
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in the way of the potential deal i'll have that story after the break. ♪ [upbeat music] ♪ defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. easily absorbed calcium plus d. now in a new look.
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right now u.s. secretary john kerry is meeting with four ministers who are trying to reach a deal on iran's nuclear program. meanwhile israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is trying to slam the nuclear talks. he says that iran is tries to take over the whole middle east. and john boehner had harsh words for president obama's relationship with netanyahu, he said it on cnn's "state of the union" this morning. >> i think the animosity exhibited by our administration toward the prime minister of israel is represented. and i think the pressure that they have put on him over the last four or five years have frankly pushed him to the point where he had to speak up.
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>> cnn's aaron pike is at the white house for us. >> reporter: he is skeptical of the iranians and does not think they are negotiating in good faith. >> i have serious doubts i have had serious doubts over the last year whether there could be an agreement and i still have serious doubts. we have a regime that has never quite kept their word about anything. i don't understand why the senator with a group of people who in my opinion have no intention of keeping their word. >> reporter: one option republicans are floating is to put steeper sanctions on iran in place, another one they're talking about is to move back the dead line. but white house press secretary john earnest addressed that. >> it's time for the
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international community to live up to their rhetoric that they're not trying to acquire a nuclear weapon. if they can make those commitments, they should be able to do that by the end of march. >> we should point out of course that they just need to come up with a frame work for a deal by advertise. the full deal doesn't have to be flushed out until the end of june fred. >> so if no real deal struck in two days then what are the options for congress what might it do? >> again, what republicans are talking about is simply putting steeper sanctions in place on iran. >> all right, erin mcpike at the white house. ahead the head of the council on foreign relations and a nuclear expert told fareed zakaria is -- >> people talk cavalierly about these strikes, it's appalling to eme that this kind of-this would be weeks of hundreds of u.s.
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sortes this would make the wars in afghanistan and iraq luke like warmup acts and they would have regional consequences. if you think iran has influence everywhere. they are going to use that influence everywhere. this is not a war that anyone in the united states wants to fight. >> want to fight? of course not. but we also cannot live in a world where iran has nuclear weapons and where several other countries in the region follow suit. it's not perfect, it's not an option. but again, it's simply good enough and better than the alternatives because the alternatives are not attractive. >> so is that the feeling of people that you have spoken to particularly to people of the middle east an imperfect deal is better than no deal? >> i think absolutely that's the case i think that they are
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exactly right when they stay people are not looking carefully at what a war with iran would look like. it's not just a question of going in there and bombing for a couple of days it's a massive war with a major regional power, that has a lot of resources, a lot of strategic depths and i think if there is a way to negotiate with iran that addresses the specific problem of its nuclear program -- what did leaders like netanyahu truly wary about in a deal. if we know that there are three things that they're looking at in a deal. they have cut off a pathway to a bomb they want to have eyes everywhere on iran to make sure that they're not up to no good. they have to display some sort of rapid response if iran is up to no good. so what is the matter with that
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kind of frame work? why is it netanyahu, for example, just doesn't believe that that is achievable or even worth the sweat in trying to work out a deal like that? >> well i think first of all, i was listening to speaker boehner on your program a few minutes ago, and it's clear, he has a very very slim knowledge of the way things work in the middle east and almost no knowledge of what's been going on in israel. netanyahu has a lot of support in congress particularly among the republicans, but he has almost no support from his own defense establishment, which sees this pathway toward negotiations in close cooperation with the united states, as the way to go. so you know, netanyahu can take an absolutist position he can say what he wants is let's get rid of all the centrifuges, let's make sure iran has no capabilities at all to eventually build a nuclear weapon. but at the end of the day, he's
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not going to get that. because you also have to remember that this diplomatic initiative is not just the u.s. and iran. it's the five permanent members of the security council plus germany talking to iran and those five members include china and russia. that the united states has been able to get them on board in these negotiations is a huge step. once congress starts to meddle with this which it probably will start doing in two weeks, all that is going to go to hell. and there will be no negotiated position and at the end of the day, you will be put in a position where there probably will have to be military action to try and prevent iran from building nuclear weapons and you open up the door to in fact an open ended war. it won't be israel -- it may be israel that starts it but it won't be israel that has to finish it it will be the united states. >> christopher dickey very fascinating information there appreciate those details. good to see you from paris.
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all right, passengers are still shaken up after an air canada jet skidded off the run way early this morning. >> when the plane hit initially, it bounced back up into the air. >> the airline says it is a hard landing, but passengers that's not the way they saw it nor felt it, the details next.
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early this morning an a airbus -- you can see the plane appears to have a pretty smashed up wing there, and part of the nose is missing and according to air canada 25 people actually suffered some nonlife-threatening injuries. nick valueencia kind of in conflict how do you interpret this. is this a crash landing or was it a hard landing? >> the transportation safety board will look into that passengers saying that this experience was one of the worst of their lives. >> reporter: early sunday morning on final approach from toronto into a snowy halifax, air canada flight 624 comes down hard. >> we were coming in to land and
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we heard a really big bump and very hard. then i hit my head and we had another big bang and then we just -- everyone just started to say get out, get out, get out. >> reporter: airline and airport officials called it a hard landing. >> what's the difference between a hard landing and a crash landing? >> a crash landing is when an aircraft didn't make to it the gate lake this incident. >> why is this not being called a crash? >> the faa will determine. >> reporter: passengers say they know what they felt. >> it's not a hard landing, it's a crash. all the landing gear is off the run way, the engines are off of it. this isn't just a hard landing. >> we read that on face booek, they said oh, they had a little bump in halifax, no they crash landed. air canada 624 crashed in
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halifax. >> tsb investigator will look into whether weather conditions had a role. there were no major injuries. >> can you talk about what they have around your neck there, the tags they gave you. >> well that's neck injuries and back injuries. >> reporter: halifax international airport briefly suspended takeoffs and landings shortly after the landing. >> we have heard it completely lost a wing can you confirm that? >> no, i'm afraid i can't. >> passengers still processing the experience say things certainly could have been much worse. >> we're lucky and glad that we all made it and nobody was badly injured. >> reporter: no doubt. the canadian air traffic safety board are looking into to the
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landing. we fully appreciate this has been a very unsettling experiencing for our customers and their families as well as our employees and we are focused now on caring for those affected we will also cooperate with the american transportation safety board. still to come, a woman who lost her brother in the germanwings crash is speaking out, we'll hear from her next. you show up. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here.
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surprising new details in that germanwings crashed airliner. according to build, the german
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tabloid, the flight captain told the co-pilot andreas lubitz that he had not been able to use the bathroom before the flight. as the plane descends the captain is heard screaming, for god's sake open the door that's followed by loud metallic bangs on the door as the captain demands to be let in build reports as alarms sound in the cockpit, passengers can then be heard screaming and that is followed by what sounds like a wing hitting the mountain more screams and then silence. we have also learned that the french defense ministry, sends a fighter jet and a helicopter to the area to the site after losing contact with the airliner. today sources close to the investigation say that the co-pilot suffered from generalized anxiety disorder and from severe depression in the
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past and the paper also reports that lubitz received injections of anti psychotic medications in 2010. a french prosecutor says at least 70 bodies from that ill fated germanwings aircraft have now been identified. it's been a pain staking process because many of those investigators have had to go on foot or even dropped into the site either by foot or by helicopter to finding any remnants of those bodies is 50 people on the flight or finding any kind of pieces of the plane. and of course they're still looking for one of the black boxes. this is one of the conversations that our carl penhall had with the sister of one of the iranian soccer players who was on board that flight. >> he was my everything he was
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the only one in my childhood i, you know even you have the big brother, you always have some secret between you, you can reeli on him. he was so good we had a good relationship, friendship. and i lost him. >> painstaking and horrible situation, investigators say reemains of only half of the 150 passengers have since been identified. still ahead, arab leaders taking a stand against yemen as troops roll toward to the yemeni border. we spoke to a former ambassador to yemen, next. awwwwwww!!!!! they have all those warnings on them. might as well say, "you're going to die, jeff".
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checking our top story, seven people were shot and wounded in spring break celebrations last night. some of the victims were from alabama state university. some of the wounded are still hospitalized. three of them in critical condition. authorities arrested 22-year-old david jermichael mcdaniels they say he was not one of the ones on spring brack. they have not revealed a possible motive. and a commuter train
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collided with a car in los angeles. ten people were hospitalized. an investigation is under way. and today, christians around the world are attending palm sunday services. pope francis led has at st. peter's square ushering in holy week. during the service he said a prayer for the victims of the germanwings plane crash. and a french prosecutor said that seven bodies from that germanwings aircraft have been identified. joining us from a site near the crash site carl penhall is on the phone with us i understand carl that many relatives of those on board that flight have made their way there and they want to get to the that crash site. so what kind of arrangements are being made for them.
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>> reporter: the issue right now is the closest any grieving relatives can get is a spot about 2 1/2 miles away as the crow flies from the actual crash site that is because the terrain is so rugged and so dangerous, trying to get there on foot or even closer evening the investigation teams have to be flown in by helicopter. ordered a backhoe into action to try and carve out a track into the hillside so that it will hold a twofold purpose. is so that recovery teams can recover plane fragments and human remains that much quicker and so that family members can get very much closer to the crash site. he said it's as if to the families every yard matters, they want to know what crash site looks like they want to know what is around that crash site and we hiked up there a
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cull of days ago, we know what's around that crash site and rest assured that families when they do get there, will be able to find a little bit of peace, it's an area just beyond the crash site where wild flowers are growing, the snow's melting right now, and that's filling crystal streams and i think that families will be able to find some peace as eventually that track is built and the mayor says that hopefully it can be built within a week fredericka. >> carl penhall, keep us posted. thank you so much. now a fierce battle under way in yemen. leaders have agreed to a unified military force in the region and are demanding that those iranian backed houthi rebels put down their arms and leave. and trucks were seen hauling
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tanks about 20 miles from the border. joining me now is the former u.s. ambassador to yemen. what are you hearing about saudi tanks that may be on their way, troops that are trying to weed out these hoiuthi rebels. >> a lot of saber rattling and -- i would be very surprised and very concerned if they were to actually seriously try to mount a ground operation in yemen, it's very difficult inhospitable ter train, and they have a comit of a scuffle with the houthis at the end of 2009
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that didn't go well. how much civilian damage and destruction in these areas is being done and how long we can tolerate this to continue is really the question for the community of nations to begin to contemplate very seriously. >> so if at that arab summit there is agreement by these arab neighbors that something needs to be done to stabilize yemen and saudi arabia continues to get the green light to lead this you know coalition of forces if the air strikes didn't work or are not working fast enough i should say, then is there any other option but the ground forces? i know you said you don't believe it would likely go in that direction, but what other direction would it go in to try to stabilize and now destabilize a very destabilized country? >> it's not going to be the easiest route and i think there's greater action to try to
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do something militarily and say we can turn the course around really quickly and we can pound the houthis into submission but i didn't think they're going to be pacified. but we need to get them back into a negotiation frame of mind. to the u.n. has been trying to do that. the houthis have shown no distribution. i do hope they will be at some point a recognition that it's not going to work it's going to create more of a human toll inside yemen and cost and to get away from that we're going to do this strictly at the point of a gun or dropping bombs on these areas where these rebels are located. >> is it not only about yemen, but is it also about the u.n. too because the u.s. had a lot at stake from the government that has now been pushed out of yemen and now it's iran who is
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backing these rebels. but at the same time the u.s. and iran are at a table talking about nuclear negotiations. so do you see these two issues conflicting when you're involving these two common party. >> reporter: you're absolutely right, there's a message being sent here, both to us and to the iranian government that the arab world is very unhappy, unsettled and uncertain about the way the negotiations are going in switzerland and we're going to introduce iran back into the region allow it to have unfettered influence in the middle east and the arabs already see that happening they see it in iraq in syria, they believe it's in bahrain and certainly in yemen, so all they see is the iranian hand moving imdeterminantly into their sphere of influence. and they're -- we're not going to let this go on without some
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sort of a response. we will protect our interests as we determine them to be threatened by iran and this is a message to both us and the iranians and i think it's ill advised. the talks if they succeeds it's a good solution to the nuke clear problem, it can be a real boost to the region and it will not be a destabilizer. >> steven thank you so much for your time, appreciate it. >> all right,in' governor mike pence, under fire for a new law in his state that opponents say lets businesses turn away gay, lesbian and transgender coast customers, but now the governor has had a chance to defend the law, what did he say? next. what the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers. it used to take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome; with the microsoft cloud we can analyze 100 per day.
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♪ indiana governor mike pence is defends the state's controversial new religious freedom law. pence signed the bill thursday. today he faced the national media. cnn a shasta darlington will -- >> fred it was interesting, because yesterday the governor said he would support new legislation if it helped clarify this law, and yet today we didn't hear any details about that supposed new legislation.
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it really seems for the governor this controversy all comes down to a misunderstanding. >> was it a mistake to sign this law? >> absolutely not. >> reporter: indiana governor mike pence on the defensive over the new religious freedom law sparking protests and boycotts. opponents say it would allow businesses to turn away customers on religious grounds. >> there's been a tremendous amount of misinformation and misunderstanding around this bill. i'm just determined and i appreciate the time on your program, i'm just determined to clarify this. >> the firestorms comes amid cry ziism. ceos from apple to yelp lashing out and angie's list cancelling a planned expansion there. the ncaa preparing to host the final four in indianapolis next weekend saying we are especially
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concerned about how this legislation could affect our student athletes and employees. former nba star charles barkley piling on the pressure -- as long as antigay legislation exists in any state, i strong believe that any big events should not be held in those states' cities but pence made it clear he's not going to consider a bill making gays and lesbians a protected class, like in many other states. >> i will not push for that. that's not on my agenda. this is not about discrimination this is about protecting the religious liberty of every hoosier of every faith. >> did you deflecting questions. >> yes or no should it be -- >> george you're following the mantra of the last week online. >> the white house quick to react. >> when you have a law like this one in indiana that seems to legitimize discrimination it's important for everybody to stand
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up and speak on you. >> reporter: there are now 20 states with some form of religion on you freedom law on the books, but the blowback in indiana could detier others from pursuing such laws. >> it's really not clear if it woman just fuel more controversy. for example, he refused to answer at least six yes-or-no questions about whether this law legalizes discrimination, can florists in indiana refuse to provide flowers for a gay wedding? without these answers or clarification, i expect the controversy will just grow fred. >> it seems like it would. shasta darlington. thank you so much. would remotely flown planes prevent another germanwings-like disaster? next the technology involved in planes piloted from the ground and the impact it could have on air travel.
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co-pilot andreas lubitz was alone behind the cockpit door. crew was powerless to stop him. many are wondering could someone have taken control of the plane from the ground? we have this report on pilotless
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planes. >> watch closely. this plane over england has a crew at the controls passengers in the back but something extraordinary is about to happen. a pilot on the ground is taking over. >> ready to take control. >> proceed. >> i have control. >> you have control. >> this is the $94 million astria product but b.a.e. one of several efforts around the world to develop planes that can be flown remotely. and it's exactly the same as the pilots would be having if they were in charge of the steering of the aircraft. >> military success with drones has driven much of the interest. some efforts are focused in airplanes in hazardous conditions such as hurricane research and -- analysts say it would be a $400 billion a year global business so why not passenger flights? first, the airlines industry has
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a remarkable safety record despite high-profile disasters. many believe on-board pilots remain the most reliable way to handle problems and retrofitting planes coulds cost billions. second passenger may not be ready. rob guyer is with "flying" magazine. >> i start by asking myself that question how would i field getting to into an airliner? i wouldn't do it. >> one of the reasons is there's still questions about reliability in these systems, and there are unanswered questions. for example, if you want to make this plane safe by having a ground station control so terrorists can't take up over here what if a terrorist taxi over down here now the plane is in control and they don't have to be on board. one possible solution is you have more than one ground station, they have to work in tandem. that defeats that problem, but doesn't ants another question -- what if you have a hacker that interrupts the data stream and takes over the plane anyway?
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that's why this is more complicated than it seems. that was tom foreman reporting. thanks so much. much more straight ahead in "newsroom" because it all starts right now. hello again, everyone. thanks so much for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield. we begin with new develops on the last minutes. the german tabloid is reporting that lubitz encouraged the plane's pilot to take a bathroom break. when the pilot left investigators say it was at that point that the co-pilot locked himself in the cockpit and then intentionally began the plane's descent into the mountainside. le parisien has reports that he suffered from generalized anxiety disorder and in 2009 he
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suffered from deceiver depression symptoms. in 2010 he even received injections of an anti-psychotic medication. as i mentioned the german tabloid magazine is reporting more details of the timeline of what happened in the last minutes of the flight. will ripley joins us from cologne cologne germany. >> reporter: if this reporting is accurate, fred you can only imagine, and frankly we can't imagine the pain that the families of everybody on board must be going through, to learn these details to know for perhaps eight minutes they knew something was horribly wrong. they looked out the windows and watch the ground come closer. it's horrific but these are details that investigators are looking at closely. before the flight even took off
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from barcelona on to dusseldorf jenny, the pilot patrick sonnen hyper had mentioned that he hadn't gotten to the bathroom. that's a key point, because this was only a two-hour flight. a lot of times both pilots would stay in the cockpit during that time a piled wouldn't get up and leave, as happened in this case. we take you to 10:27 a.m. and the captain essentially asked the co-pilot to prepare for landing, this is all standard procedure. lubitz told the captain, okay you can go now, you can leaved cockpit. that's exactly what happened. you hear the seat moving backward and the captain telling lubitz you can take over. at 10:29, the flight radars show the plane started to descend. it's a rapid descent just three
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minutes later at 10:32, air traffic controllers, they tried to contact the plane, and the sink rate cockpit alarm went off. it would have been audible even outside the cockpit to some of the passengers in front of the aircraft. that's when you start to hear this loud bang the captain screaming, for god's sake open the door. that's when passengers can be heard screaming in the background. that was 10:32, the plane would be in the air for another eight minutes, 10:35 a.m. loud metallic bangs can be heard. this is what investigators think was the pilot trying to break his way into the cockpit, really a value-and-effort by sondenhyper. now down to another 90 seconds, the alarms continue. if you've ever been inside a cockpit, these are very loud. the steering controls will start to shake. people can hear this well outside of the cockpit, as the
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captain continuing to screen "open the damned door." the plane continues descending the co-pilot breathing normally the plane goes down to 13,000 feet and two minutes later. they believe the plane's wing scraped a mountaintop. and then the recording goes silent fred. it's just awful. >> it is as riveted and just absolutely horrifying. totally puts us all on the plane, just your description. we believe this reporting is coming from the voice recorder. still the flight data recorder has not been recovered, right? >> reporter: that's correct. so that's a key piece, because they need to look at the data recorder to see what exactly is happening. they flights are automated nearly the entire flight only a few seconds does the pilot
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actually assume control. lubitz would have had to mannelly entered into the autopilot to have such a rapid sdeent descent. there may be a press conference tomorrow but there's been so many leaks. this is a german tabloid reporting these details. at some point investigators may decide it's time to come forward to either confirm some of this information or say, no this is not the case. certainly the families hope it was not a full eight minutes of horror as this newspaper account indicates. >> all right. will ripley thank you so much. that transcription account of that underscores the intention of the demise of that flight because of the what the co-pilot had in mind. today's new details about the mental health of that co-pilot raising even more questions about how he was allowed to continue to fly. i want to bring in our panel. dr. mitchell garber and senior
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management consult been for esi, alastair rosinshine is and dr. jake we lynn brunetti is a medical examiner. to all of you again, we have these reports, particularly from "le parisien" that this young man appears to have had a fairly long history of mental issues including one time when he was given antipsychotic medication. alastair how is it? it's a real basic question that everyone is wondering, how is it that he would be allowed to still fly a plane if he had received this kind of very severe and very intricate treatment for mental illnesses? >> well, there are certain requirements to pass an aeromedical. it's clear that no one with these alleged illnesses could possibly have been allowed to fly. certainly as a pilot, i would
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feel very much let down if i was flying with somebody with this sort of mental disorder and mental history. one expect the aeromedical authorities to manage this situation properly and make sure that pilots are fit to fly. what we are hearing here is an individual -- i don't know for sure this is the case in this pilot, but if this was -- if this is true then i don't think he should have been flying. >> and so we know especially in the states you have hipaa laws that reveal doctors from revealing information, but you wonder if a case like this dr. garber someone who is responsible for hundreds of people as lives on the plane, if there is sort of a minimum and a maximum, a threshold in which a certain medical diagnoses or treatment suddenly becomes information that an airline needs to know or perhaps the
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aviation medical authority needs to know. that didn't apply here, it seems. . >> in many ways we're asking if an individual who is mentally ill, that they're being evaluated. the medical community does have a responsibility to get that information when it becomes critically known to the authorities who can take action of it. there are requirements and regulations, even allowances for that reporting to take place. i think there will be a lot of questions as to why that didn't happen here. >> everybody wants to blame somebody. number one you blame the co-pilot lubitz. he was at the controls he made this decision to crash it but then outside of that there is this feeling of placing blame on
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someone or entity people who had knowledge of his condition there's a feeling of who else bears responsibility. >> i think it's a difficult one to an. i don't think we have all the facts. we have small pieces of information that keep coming out. i don't think we know they see dates with respect to his psychiatric diagnosis in comparison to his flight history. i think certainly if what we're being given is accurate those diagnoses are reasons for denial in the united states. in the united states we can only certify pilots diagnosed with only mild depression and on acceptable single therapy treatments.
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alastair when we hearing every from general iced anxiety disorder he then received injections of an antipsychotic medication in 2010 i think people feel from you traited, but as a pilot yourself does this scream this kind of example scream reform? >> this hippocratic oath also -- this is a safety a safety-related industry aviation. any doctor who knows their patient it a pilot and suffers from these illnesses there's a medical department of of aviation authority in every condition.
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so you know, it's quite wrong. the doctors should be asking themselves if it's true. alastair rosinshine, doctors, thank you very much. we appreciate it. we're going to have much more straight ahead in the newsroom. the deadline is alternates more than 4r8 hours away from the nuclear deal with iran. some are saying it can get done but others not so sure. we'll go live to switzerland. a rough ride in canada. what happens and why the airline is calling it a hard landon.
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russia britain and germany, along with the u.s. secretary of state john
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kerry of all in l. zuismt anne, switzerland. elise, what exactly is holding up this deal? >> reporter: it's rainy and gloomy here in luzanne, but iranian journalists here say that's a sign of good luck. this is thorny issues of sanctions. in varianced nuclear technology that iran could till while the deal is in effect. iran wants the security council sanctions lifted on day 1. world powers here say iran could see economic benefits right away there's in united states sanctions, european sanctions, but the u.n. sanctions are much
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more complicated an will take some time. iran also wants to continue to develop advanced nuclear technology and research those programs while the deal is in effect. the international community wants to put tighter curbs and wait until this deal is about 10 or 15 years. all the foreign ministers are here now, and i think that negotiation will go well into tonight, even into tomorrow night. >> thanks so much. straight ahead, more that 20 passengers and crew were injured after a rough landing early this morning. >> when the plane hit initially, it bounced back up into the air. >> next what investigators say happened to this air canada jet. vo: 85 percent of people who travel will go someplace they've already
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terrifying moments for more than 130 passengers on an air canada flight. early this morning the airbus 320 skidded off the runway as it was landing in halifax november
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november we have. >> we're waiting to hear from the transportation board. they have a press conference at 5:30. officially the airline reluctant to say this is a crash. early sunday morning on final aapproach, air canada flight 624 comes down hard. >> we were coming in for land we heard a very big bump very hard. i hit my head another big bang and then we just everyone started to say get out, get out. >> airline and airport officials called it a hard landon. >> reporter: what was the difference between a crash and hard landing? >> a crash is when an air draft didn't make it to the gate like in this incident. >> then why isn't it a crash?
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>> the ntsb will determine. >> passengers know what they felt. >> that plain -- no no we crash landed air canada 624 crash landed from toronto. >> reporter: they dramatic photos show significant damage to the wing engine and nose. >> investigators will look into the conditions. 25 were hospitalized including the two pilots who were later released. there were no major injuries. >> can you talk about what they have around your neck? >> just neck injuries and back injuries. hall fanned-stanfield briefly spanneded takeoffs and landings
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an airport official would not give specifics. >> we heard it completely lost a wing. can you confirm that? >> no i can't. >> reporter: passengers say things certainly could having much worse. >> lucky and glad we all made. nobody was badly injured. more details expected from the canada article traffic safety board. >> that was a pretty scary close call. wow. all right. thanks so much nick. >> thanks fred. governor pence under fire for a new law in his state that opponents say lets businesses turn away gay and transgender customers. our political panel is weighing in on this, next.
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and the co-pilot encouraging him to go. minutes later the pilot is screaming at the co-pilot to let the door open. "bild" also reporting that the copeet even received injections of antipsychotic medications in 2010. and at least 70 bodies have not been identified nearly half of the 150 people on board that flight. joining us from a french town near that crash site karl penhaul. you spoke with family members who say they have to be there near the site of that crash. >> reporter: yeah absolutely fredricka. hour by hour families turn up to a small marble plaque that's been set up in a field about 2 1/2 miles away as the crow flies from the crash site but
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the problem is that they can't go any further than that because the terrain is so rugged it's so dangerous, that even the recovery teams have to fly in by helicopter and get dropped down on a cable and on a winch. but the village mayor has been there, and he's been trying to console them help the families through the first steps on the way to finding some kind of peace. he says that every family has pushed and stressed to him the need to get right up to the crash site so they can understand what is there. they ask him to describe the scene for them. so that's why he's ordered to digger into action to carve a track out, and he hopes that should be ready in about a week. we had a chance as we were standing there today to talk to the sister of an iranian sports journalist who died in the crash. this is what she had to say about her big brother, milad
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dismtd islami. >> he was my everything. he was the only one in my childhood. you have a big brother you always have some security you can rely on him. he was he was so good. we had a good relationship friendship, and i lost everything. >> reporter: she ended that interview by turning away looking up at the snow-capped peaks and saying the only way i can comfort myself is thinking now that my brother is king of the alps. fredricka. >> oh, that's so sad. karl thank you so much. keep tweeting us your questions, our aviation expert is standing by to answer them.
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send your questions to to #germanwingsqs. negotiators are intensifying as tuesday 'deadline draws near. diplomats who have been negotiating for four days are still at odds over two core issues -- limits on nuclear research and developments in the deal's final years. and the pace of lifting sanctions. if no deal is reached, iran could face even steeper sanctions. speaker john boehner spoke to cnn earlier this morning. >> how quickly will you move to further sanctions to iran in the house. >> very. >> days? minutes? >> very quickly. >> the sanctioning were working. el frankly we should have kept the sanctions in place so that we could have gotten to a real agreement. the sanctions are going to come and come quick.
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>> joining me right now, larry sabadeau. good to see you, and ron brownstein. good to see you as well. gentlemen, if the protalks fail but if it were to fail what would be the impact on obama administration ron? >> i think they would see immediately, as you heard in the interview with the speaker, enormous pressure in congress to impose further sanctions on iran. it's hard to be overly optimistic but you would have to say that both sides have so much invested in this process that i would still put the needlepointing towards getting a deal off not getting a deal but there's no question if a deal is not r50e67d, the administration will be facing immediate pressure from congress for harsh sanctions. >> so larry, at the same time this administration has really
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stuck out its neck being one of the few administrations that were willing to have face-to-face talks with. they're thinking optimistically but with just two days to go if it doesn't go through, how much is lost by this administration, in your view? >> well potentially quite a bit. like ron, i'm a little most optimistic than pessimistic. most everybody thought it would come down to the time days or hours. that's the way negotiations are often done. that's especially true with the iranians. i wouldn't close the door at all on this being a success, at least in the terms the administration had hoped for. now, regardless of what is agreed to or whether it's agreed to at all, you can can be guaranteed there's a partisan food fight. it's already set up. with the letter being set by the
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48 leaders, with concerns about what the administration may agree to. we're far from finished with the controversy, even if there is some kind of agreement or framework for an agreement. it's not necessarily an end point, even if an agreement that's not made. it may still by a starting point. let's turn if we could to indiana, where state politics are making national headlines. governor mike pence has signed that law that critics say lets businesses discrimination gets gay, lesbian and transgender customers. there's a lot of criticism from jason collins, to charles barkley, now to a company called angie's list which is head quartered in indiana, saying it won't go through expansion plans with this law in place. larry, you first. is this a protection of religion on you freedom issue? or is this an issue of license to discriminate? >> well actually it's both. there's a conflict of rights here but we'll leave that to
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the courts to adjudicate eventually, which they will probably have to. you have to say this fred the governor of indiana it a disastrous interview on another network this morning on a morning show in which he could not answer a series of yes or no questions about this law. >> stop right there. i think you are teeing up what we need to hear. i lost too how many times tie george stephanopoulos asked the question and this is the kind of answer we got 23r9 governor. let's listen. >> so this is a yes or no question is advance america right when they say a florist in indiana can now refuse to serve a gay couple without fear of punishment? >> let me explain to you, the purpose of this bill is to empower and has been for more than 20 years, george this is not speculative. this is not about discrimination discrimination. >> let me try to pin you down on it because your supporters say
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it wouldn't. yet or no. if a florist refuses to serve a gay couple at their wedding, is that legal now in indiana? >> george this is -- this is where this debate has gone with misinformation and -- >> it's just a question sir, yes or no. >> there's been shame his rhetoric about my state and about this law and about its intention all over the internet. >> okay so larry, finish your thought. the governor says he wants to clarify what the law means, and he never did that. >> that's because the correct answer was yes, and he didn't want to say it. look indiana is headed for a disaster. it's a disaster that they can learn from arizona about, because arizona had a major boycott attached to it because of some of its positions on immigration. unless it's cleared up quickly, it's going to rupt in
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corporations moving out f. conventions being canceled. >> talk of the final four not -- >> or maybe it will be the last they see for a long time. >> ron, is there a way to reverse this? how can this governor clean it up or state legislature? what's next? >> first i would completely agree. i thought governor pence set the all-time land speed record for not answering a yes or no question. if he could have said no he would have but he did not want to. look in arizona, of course the legislature passed, in addition to all the immigration issues the governor vetoed it until enorms on pressure from the business community. i think there will be a lot of push back. it doesn't end in indiana. jeb bush was asked about this statute the other day in georgia, and though he's talked in other context about showing respect for all americans, he
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expressed sympathy for this kind of law. there's a lot of pressure from the republican base who is unhappy about the consolidate real changes that are associated with the recognition of same-sex marriage. that's not going to go away it will likely extend into the 2016 presidential race regardless of whether indiana ultimately backs down. >> an interesting road ahead to 2016. larry sabato ron brownstein good to see you both. thank you very much. saudi tanking roll toward the yemen ty border. we'll get the latest after a break.
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one of the leaders of the pack the reinventing sculpture while still adhering to his local background and to his own tradition of modernity. >> i'm not a traditional sculptor. i use my own hair i use shoes, plants roots, potatoes everything for make sculpt terr. >> even a simple glass bottle has artistic potential. it made its way from a scrap heap to the gallery floor because of an idea formed some years ago. >> i took some of mice own experience for making some works that i call out of construction. they're related to how people -- what we call outer construction in mexico is called [ speaking foreign language ] in other countries or shanty town an ongoing process where
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people do things as they can, with whatever they find at hand. that's the way my parents constructed the house i grew up. >> sculpture is challenging, an amazing history, and it's very different from painting to challenge that very history, because sculpture was made of wood. it was made of bronze but it was never made of for instance dirt or rejects. all right. the battle for control of yemen is escalating at the arab summit in egypt. leaders have agreed to form a unified force in the region and demand houthi rebels to disarm. tanks were on a highway south toward yemen about to miles from the border. cnn's becky anderson is in sharm
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el sheikh covering the summit for us. becky? >> reporter: as the saudi-led offensive continues to grind down the houthi it is there is a very real chance that tens of thousands of arab boots on the ground could be deplied to further degrade the iran-backed militia. negotiations have thrashed out plans for a military force ostensibly to counter threats of insurgency across the region going forward, concentrating in the first instance on yemen. the so-called sharm el sheikh declaration urges houthis to immediately withdraw from the capital sanaa, from government institutions, and to surrender their weapons to quote, legitimate authorities. now, i guess the implicit understanding then being if they don't, there's a mechanism in place to ratchet up these arab allied efforts.
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the president, as we know las week turned up here to rally support for this operation decisive storm. in his opening speech he didn't mince his words, denouncing hugher rebels warning that they will be responsible for what happens next in the country. when he flew back to riyadh late last night, i sat down though with the yemeni foreign minister in the wee hours of this morning. i asked him what he believed the addition of ground troops would be and when. >> i think we would need the ground troops as soon as possible to keep things to hold it together. >> reporter: you are talking days? >> uh, could be. >> reporter: well this is by no means unanimously supported, dissenting voices from lebanon, iraq baghdad for example going so far as to say the decision to
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launch on yemen was hasty. they made it clear they are against military intervention. they called for political dialogue that includes all stakeholders. my sense is the international community is also eager to promote further discussions, possibly hosted by longtime mediator o mediator oman. the consequences of a possible all-out fight in for what for many years has a proxy war between saudi and the regional rival iran is what we should be watching out for. becky anderson cnn, sharm el sheikh. >> many of you you are tweeting us questions. our expert answers them next.
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wow. sweet new subaru, huh mitch? yep. you're selling the mitchmobile!? man, we had a lot of good times in this baby.
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what's your dad want for it? ..like a hundred and fifty grand, two hundred if they want that tape deck. you're not going to tell your dad about the time my hamster had babies in the backseat, are you?! that's just normal wear and tear, dude. (vo) subaru has the highest resale value of any brand... ...according to kelley blue book ...and mitch. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. i've been riding since age 4. i will not forget when my father let go of my seat and i was there on my own. that was 70 years ago. a lot of kids have never really
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left the city. to them everything is concrete. is everybody excited? i decided to take kids who had never had my kind of experience on thinks mountain bike rides. >> okay you guys. let's hit the road. >> i wasn't trying at school. i was getting straight fs. i got expelled when we go on bike rides, i feeling like it clears my mind. >> looking good. i've been doing this for almost 30 years. you bring them where there are no buildings. it is like wow, i didn't know this exists. and then we have our earn a bike program, where kids in the community come after school. what's wrong with it? >> a chain. >> so the chain is loose? >> yes. >> they learn how to work on bikes and earn points towards bikes of their own. >> that looks great. >> they earn good job skills.
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>> this bike is getting quite an overhaul. >> now they're a-- i have a. and bs. they're a guide to my future. >> it's an opportunity. it is not just biking. we are imparting life lessons. all right. let's talk more now about the germanwings crash. you've been tweeting us questions, and we're going to answer some of them right now. former commercial pilot and aviation consulting alastair rosenshein. new cars with stop themselves why isn't there technology to stop a plane from landing anywhere but a runway? >> there are warning sounds which are announced on the flight deck from gpws.
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that will notify the pilots in short order they're about to impact with the ground. so they can then take action to avoid it. there is no automatic system to prevent them from hitting the ground. when it comes to automatic landing. we can do that at certain airports with certain aircraft in certain conditions but generally speaking it's not -- there isn't the automatic system to take over an aircraft in the event of an accident. it still hassing to done by the human on the plane. it should be possible to override the door from the ground if a situation like this. >> it's an interesting one. i assume it would have to be done through some sort of satellite lirk. there are ways of dealing with this. one is on some aircraft they never have to leave the area
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the bunk areas is in the flight deck as is the bathroom. some shorter-haul aircraft there are no barthelmes on the flight deck. by moves the cockpit door back a bit, many of these aircraft could encompass one on the flight deck again negating the need for pilots to leave the flight deck. >> then kristin asks -- why don't planes send a distress signal if they go into descend in the middle of a flight path? >> there are many reasons why, a medical emergency, where you have to divert. some technical problem on the airplane. so air traffic controls nose the flight plan. if the airport departs from the flight path either by turning off-course that sets up alarm bells ringing in the head of the controller and they start to take action. by contacting the aircraft and
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finally the rescue authorities. there's nothing that can be done on the ground to -- >> and it sounds like listening to these questions, that's what people want. alastair thank you for being with me. i appreciate it. i'm fredricka whitfield. next hour of noirm norm"newsroom" noirm starts ought this short break. 't have the money to travel right now. i usually just go back home to see my parents so i can't exactly go globe-trotting. if i had friends to go with i'd go but i don't want to travel by myself. someday. male vo: there are no more excuses. find the hotel you want, and the flight you want, and we'll find the savings to get you there. your mom's got your back. your friends have your back. your dog's definitely got your back. but who's got your back when you need legal help? we do. we're legalzoom, and over the last
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. this is cnn breaking news. 5:00 eastern. i'm poppy harlow in new york. we begin this hour with breaking news. we are getting more of a picture of what happened that horrid rink day when germanwings flight 9565 was crashed. it appears an unidentified person has leaked the audio from the cockpit's voice recorder. i want to be clear. we at cnn have not heard it about you the state of of a german newspaper has. today that newspaper published what it says a is summary of that transcript. the words and sounds illuminate the final minutes of that flight. they're also critically important to investigators who are still trying to wrap their minds around the nothing that a german airline co-pilot intentionally flew the plane right into the mountains killing 150 people on board. the co-pilot andreas lubitz had
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symptoms of depression and once got injection of antipsychotic medication according to a french journalist who researched his medical history. >> police found prescription drugs in his home and doctor's notes torn up saying he was unfit to fly this week. the airline he works for says it had no idea that lubitz was under mental health care or that he was unfit to fly. it is exceedingly rare for audio recording from the cockpit to ever be leaked to ever be heard by the public. french accident officials say the public has no need to know that information at this stage of the investigation, and they are dismayed. french officials insisting they do not know where that leak came from. this reported transcript summary, according to that german newspaper, paints the picture of a seemingly typical cockpit routine suddenly turning into an in-flight emergency. will ripley joins me from
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cologne, germany. you have read think what "bild" has published. take us through it. >> reporter: if the reporting is accurate it paints a horrifying pictures for these families whose loved ones apparently knew what was going on for eight minutes. it also shows this was clearly a deliberate act in the cockpit that resulted in the death of 150 people. we'll start when the plane is in the air at 10:27 a.m. with the copilots and the pilot in the cockpit. soddenmire had mentioned that he needed to use the rest room. after they got everything checked out lubitz told the captain, okay you can go. he tells the co-pilot to take over. that's when investigators believe the door was locked not allowing the pilot to get back
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in. at 10:29, the flight -- it was a rapid descent. certainly the captain had noticed by 10:32 when air traffic control was trying to contact the plane, alarmts started going off that the rate of descent was too quick. the pilot is screaming, for god's sake open the door. you can also hear passengers in the background screaming, but the plane would still be in the air for another eight minutes. 10:35, more alarms and metallic bangs, as the pilot was apparently trying to break his way in. he wasn't successful, as the plane kept going lower and lower loud alarms say there's terrain, pull up. these are things that passengers would have been able to hear. the pilot is screaming "open the damn door." the plane keeps going down.
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at this point passengers could be looking at their windows, see the ground getting closer and closer two minutes later at 10:40, the right wing scrapes a mountaintop, then the recording stop poppy. family members can only hope perhaps there are details that are not accurate and people were not aware for eight minutes that something was wrong. an eternity for those on board, just a sad and tragic situation s one individual in the cockpit and 149 others with absolutely no control as the plane moved towards the french alps. >> putting all their trust in that copeet to bring them safely to their destination. will ripley thank you very much. please stay with me. i want to bring in a commercial airline pilots. les, i want to run through this with you, as someone who sits in
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a jumbo jet and has all these lives in your hands. the captain telling lubitz that he didn't go to the bathroom before they left lubitz sets says you can go anytime. >> i would suppose to. i would think you would have an opportunity to go to the bathroom but yeah i would call it a routine conversation. >> at 38,000 feet the captain tells the co-pilot to make some preparation, he says all right, you can leave, you know you can go to the bathroom now. normal still, right? >> he would have said like we do in our airplanes, you've got the airplane and i'm going to do a bathroom break. >> you trust one another to fly it alone. >> absolutely. >> the radar begin to show the plane descending air traffic control gets no problem to contact the plane. there's an announcement a sink rate warning. what is that?
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>> apparently the warning system indicated that the airplane was descending too quick for the motor of flight. it sounds to me as though he was hand flying the airplane by virtue of that. to the best of my knowledge, the autopilot wouldn't allow even though he dialed in 100 feet which we've talked about now, i don't -- i don't think the autopilot would have allowed him to do that sink rate, which might indicate that i'm flying an warpt for the last time. >> there's a loud banging on the door the captain's voice screaming to open the door. passengers heard obviously frightened screaming in the background. what's your takeaway from this? is there anything that the captain can use to get that door broken down? >> you know i put myself in that captain's position doing the assessment of my own crew members not letting me back in
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the door that starts and i'm almost thinking it was such a short period of time i'm thinking three minutes for me to go to the warm whatsh my hands, come out and it was about five minutes apparently when he realized he couldn't get in the door that's a pretty quick assessment you know to realize there's a possibility that he knew it right away and, um had an idea by virtue of the fact that manual latch might have gone as and what he was banging on the door with could have been an -- >> a loud metallic bang. >> a fire extinguisher perhaps, or a serving tray card. >> after a minute and a half this alarmt goes off, terrain, pull up. that is still a moment right, where if the capitaling were able to get in there, that many -- >> that's called a ground proximity warning system. what it says depending on the
quote
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closure rate and your eight attitude above terrain, it's not barometer pressure it's measuring, but measuring distance above terrain. it can also see there's a that the database that -- yes, you have a period of time that -- if he could have got in there, he could have tried to rescue. >> he tried to desperate lid. 13,000 feet the audio cockpit recording, we know this also from investigators, this part of it that it picks up the co-pilot's breathing. they say it's normal breathing. how can they hear that and determine that through the chaos that's being picked up? >> that's a great question. that's something that was confusing in my mind. there's a lot air noise, a lot of white noise in that cockpit just on a regular base that cockpit air microphone in the airbus i believe is toward the over head panel. it's tough to pick up normal
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breathing. i'm thinkic he was on his oxygen mask because it's a requirement at the altitude they were at to have that mask on and what you're hearing is a normal breathing, a analysisaly sound if you transmit and also a funny sound picked up by the cockpit area. so me i think it was the volume -- there's no way normal breathing could be picked up. i think he had the oxygen mask on which is a strange -- a strange scenario. >> i want to bring in will ripley babb in cologne, german,. i understand you have a question for les on exactly this? >> reporter: yeah les, on the ground here this is being treated as a marsh slaughter investigation. i'm curious, this was a two-hour flight. i would imagine it's not necessarily routine for the pilot to need to leave and get up and use the rest room during a two-hour flight. is that going to be a key
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question? was he seizing the opportunity, or had it been planned out further in advance? >> you know will that's a good question. you and i are the best guesses on that one. it seemed he was pushing the captain, a two-hour flight if you go prior to departure,sh be okay, but it is -- it is a little funny in that regard. >> read it as sort of the co-pilot urging? >> i suppose in a way, yeah. >> but again, we have not been able to hear these. we may never. these are not recordings that are publicly released nor should they be? >> no. it's very disturbing to me -- in the state we had a cockpit voice recording released even after the investigation was -- and
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it's such a concern for the families. i have done a debriefing with somebody who had to listen to a recorder by virtue of the fact he knew the crew member. it is horrific worse than going to the crash site. having released this is awful. >> the b.e.a. the lead french investigators say they're dismayed. they insist it's none of their own and they say this is unnecessary voyeurism. >> united flight 93 after 9/11 that transcript was not released. it took the captain' wife a long time before she was given permission to listen to that transmission. part of it had to do with the investigation being criminal and the fbi's hands, but it's a tough thing to listen to. >> will to you in cologne
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germany, have you heard anything recently responding to this leak from the airline? >> well not specifically the airline, but investigators here are mortified. as you point out, this is more than a cockpit voice recording. this is an audio recording of a dwlibt absent that resulted in the deaths of 150 people. people might call it premedicated murder. there will be a lot of discussions, but this is detailing the final minutes of these people's lives. at least eight of thoughts minutes were in panic and terror. people on the ground didn't want the families to hear about this. we're harrick there may be a press conference tomorrow to confirm or saying hay, this isn't entirely accurate. we can only hope that for this eight minutes, this wasn't the
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case. because it is -- there are really no words to describe how awful that is. absolutely. will ripley thank you. les, thank you as well. the captain locked out of the cockpit tried as you just hearty heroically to break down the door save the flight save all 150 souls on board. the family of captain patrick sondenheimer along with -- a small stone memorial has been set up with the site with inskrings it is in french german and spanish. the captain's grandmother said -- my grandson was a loving father and heavo. it leaves my whole family in shock. he was only 34 years old. 34-year-old and a father.
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come been up next. stunning information about the medical conditions that the copeet reportedly hid from the airline, from all of his bosses and everyone else. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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they are indeed true they're coming from numerous papers reporting this why would the co-pilot have been prescribed both an antipsychotic and antidepressants. >> someone who has a significant depressive episode, depressive disorder will oftentimes get an antidepressant alone, and many times will have good resolution of those symptoms. people who have lee lapse or develop more of what is called a psychotic depression on in addition they may have symptoms of psychosis, what does that mean? maybe they could be having delusionses or hallucinations but this idea of having breaks with reality. that's what you think of. so the mental illnesses can occur in ice place, but one can
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sort of compound or exacerbate the other as well. so the depression could have come first, anyone the psychosis. >> so what stood out to me was the report of injections back in 2010. i wonder what you read from that and whether that could have an impact five years later? >> this medication that we're talking about, and as you mentioned, we haven't confirmed that but elanzopine is a powerful medication. it's injected by the doctor. so i guess more than anything speaks to the severity perhaps of the illness. there are other things besides psychosis for which it may be given, but that's sort of the most common thing. it can be effective. could he have received they injectionses five years ago and had significant benefit?
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yes, but i think more than anything if this is true it sort of reads into the severity of just how bad the psychosis was, at least at one point in his life. that brings everyone to the question is if if that's the case how could he have been operating in such a seemingly normal way, by all accounts, and then have this happen ? could he have had a psychotic break at that moment? >> it's hard to know for sure obviously. you also have this cockpit recording, where he's not saying anything. he doesn't appear to be actively hallucinating in terms of what he's expressing. he's not in a manic sort of phase. he's just breathing in a controlled fashion, but you can have a situation where essentially your mind is racing you're having all these different things going on some of them in a psychotic sort of
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frame of mind but not expressing it outwardly. that is quite possible. it is a break with reality. i think what surprised me the most and surprised a lot of experts we have spoken to is just there was no expression nothing. nothing that he said outwardly. he could have been having conversations with people all day and not had -- they may not have picked up on any clues because of that. but that's not a reflection perhaps of what was going on inside hi mind. >> i just want to be clear here millions of americans, millions of people around the world suffer from depression seek treatment, and do not murder 149 other people. i mean. it's just very important here right, sanjay to point this out. >> absolutely 100%. i've been saying this this is unlikely depression alone. people who are depressed don't engage in this sort of behavior typically, and not violent. if they are violent, it's
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typically just towards themselves. so the idea -- it makes the case -- again we have not independently confirmed this but if it was depression plus something else plus something that caused a break in reality, that would make more sense. it's senseless regardless, poppy, but you're absolutely right. people can be treated for depression very successfully and live productive lives. >> absolutely. sanjay thank you very much. sanjay will join us next hour. but next the ex-girlfriend has spoken out. the revelations and potential red flags that apparently were missed. that's ahead.
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we're learning disturbing details believed to be the ex-girlfriend of the co-pilot that crashed flight 9525. she said he had would wake up from night mares and vowed to do something that would make everyone remember his name. "bild" is reporting this that the ex-girlfriend was interviewed and he talked to our victor blackwell about that. >> the relationship lasted for five months. we are talking about a time one
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year ago. actually she works with flight attendants and they got to know on a flight and it ended up in -- it came to a relationship but they kept this relationship secret because she was a little bit worried about this relationship might -- could affect on her career you know? and actually she told me that this relationship lasted for five months and in the end it was her decision to break up because she felt after those months with him a little bit scared a little frightened because of his spontaneous reaction. she told me about a -- he tends to be aggressive in terms of -- and they were discussing especially about their job situation. maria told me that he was, during their relationship quite
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unhappy with the job situation. he told her, like you mentioned before one night he suddenly jumped up from suffering from a nightmare and screamed the plane goes down we're going down. there was another moment when he locked himself into a toilet according to her, and at least one hour she told me and she didn't know why he did that. >> john did he ever according to this ex-girlfriend share any diagnoses with her? or are they just all observations she made. >> there was one talk she mentioned when he actually admitted he had medical treatment because of the psychological troubles. but he didn't give more details. it was obvious that it seems to be -- and she told me that she
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was also kind of therapy -- because she observed two sides of him. when he was among people he was nice really smart, open-minded to other people but then they were on their own, and especially when they were discussing about the jock situation, and about the dream, you know he turned to another person to a different person being more quiet, more sensitive and unsure. she was the one who gave him, let's say power, support. >> wow, that coming from a journalist who interviewed a woman who said his was the ex-girlfriend of the co-pilot. next we'll talk about, were there warning signs to stop the tragedy? who should have known? that's next.
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. before the break, we heard from the journalist who interviewed the e.-girlfriend of germanwings co-pilot andreas lubitz. she pointed a picture of a man tormented that he did not like to talk about. jeff guardier and les alben is here. what do you make of this description we just heard from the ex-girlfriend of the co-pilot about night mares that he would have once waking up saying he had a fear the plane with us going down also being unhappy about his time and not wasn'ting to talk about the treatment? >> one of the things he allegedly was experiencing was
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burnout. in many ways he was veg nervous breakdowns not really able to work any longer subjectively couldn't deal with the stress. to me this is a person who -- and again, you know crystal balling here but someone who was extremely anxious, had a lot of issues with ainge tithe, as well possibly with depression and a depression that could have let to some delusional thinking. so when you have this kind of a description of a person who can be angry, who can be anxious, very nervous, this tells me this is a person who is struggling with his sanity to hold on to his sanity and why he was so afraid he might lose his job. not just for the psychological issues but this issue of sight. but we now think that perhaps the issue with the sight might have been a psychosomatic issue. we don't know for sure but it would by ironic that he created
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a problem from his own issues. >> "new york times" reporting that he did have vision issues but we know that he did pass a comprehensive physical evaluate which would have done a vision test test. >> les, the statistics bear out that a plane crash is extremely rare when you look at all the numbers. what does it tell you that he had dreams of crashing? >> you know i go right with what jeff is saying. this 3457b shouldn't have been in the cockpit. that's the bottom line. most of us have dreams of getting on with the airline, becoming a pilot. i mean this is -- this was the epitome the day i got hired. it's a concept that's inconceivable for many of us. >> let's be aware this burnout is in some ways akin to -- that's what they call it in
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europe. but what we see it as is a post-traumatic stress. we don't know what the trauma may have been. maybe he created his own trauma but nightmare is a part of that ptsd. >> gentlemen, i want you to listen to this the father of paul bramly one of the people killed and he's urging airlines -- he said i don't care about the motive. what i want to know is things will change. take a listen. >> what happened on the morning of the 24th of march was the acts of a person that is very least was ill. if there was a motive or reason we do not want to hear it it's not relevant. what is relevant is that it should never happen again. my son and everybody on the plane should not want to be forgotten. the airlines should be more transparent and that these pilots are looked after properly. we put our lives and our children's lives, you said the
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cloud lifted and the natural beauty to be restored and not to be remembered by the action of a single person. thank you, my son, paul. >> 28-year-old son, one of the victims there. les, what should change? >> well what should change is we should educate and promote more of the programs the mechanisms that all the airlines have and present it both to us as pilots and to the public that they're there. i've talked about this before. my airline has a program that works both with you know the company and the union work together. you basically look at each other. granted, you know there's no way that i would profess to be able to analyze, you know my fellow pilot, my colleague, but at least i can tell something is going on and be concerned about
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it. we're not all trained in that regard but those mechanisms already exist. do we go ahead and move into the medical exam and maybe promote or have you're ames ask us more specific questions relative to our lives over the last six months? perhaps we should go in that direction, but that's going to take education and promotion on that part. >> and a lot of people are saying is self-reporting the way to go? thank you both. coming up next we'll talk about what was key here the cockpit door the thickness, all made more secure after 9/11. were these safety precautions something that ultimately did not work in this case? my next gerst formerly with the department of homeland security says it may by time to rethink these measures. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ if you want a paint
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it is a tragedy and stunningly it was apparently a deliberate act, according to prosecutors, to bring down german did not wings flight 9525 down. could the very safety precaution put in place to protect the
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flight crew and passengers have contributed to this tragedy? let me bridge in former assistant secretary juliet kayem, and les abend joining me in new york. you wrote appear op-said this week saying it's the ultimate tragic irony that this protect did exactly the opposite of its intention on this instance. but this is such a rarity. do you think the security measures need to change on the cockpit door? >> i think security measures should never remain static. risks change threats change we have to constantly be assessing what the security measures of. this was an instant with a single point of failure, the inable to get into a cockpit when they needed to. there might be without ways of offense there's at least an opportunity to get in while they
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need -- i fele the same way about black boxes, we're are we like archaeologists looking to black boxes. the technology exists to transmit it in real time. we're sort of stuck in a 1970s or 2001 security world. it's now 2015 and like everything else we need to modify and adapt. it seems to me these are relatively easy fixes. >> les? >> well, i agree with juliet from the standpoint that the dynamics of changing a security system. however, it's a pretty simple system. keep the bad guys out of the airplane. i think that's where most of the threat will be coming from the other side of the door this anomaly of a mentally ill patient which seems to be the picture we are paintic, it just
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doesn't seem to change the philosophy and design just for this circumstance that's unbelievable is necessary. i think we need to attack the problem at its source as opposed to putting a band-aid on it by changing what we have now. >> what do you think, juliet? he has a point, right? >> he does and i agree with les. i made it clear, you don't change an entire global security system based on this anomaly, but if the fix -- and it could be some sort of access to the coke.by ground control. whether it's a sociopathic co-pilot or heart attack or something, that seems to me to be a fix that you can do in light of where technology -- how technology has changed. technology makes it relatively easy to do a lot of these security changes without throwing money at it. but i want to make clear, i totally agree with le seismt we
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can't have blinders now the threat is the pilot. clearly the bigger threat is going to be passengers. >> someone asked us on twitter this -- if onstar can open my car door remotely why can't ground crews open the cockpit door if a flight is distressed? >> well i'll answer that with a question. how are you going to give the security to have that onstar aviation program know that the individual that's asking to open that cockpit door is the one that has that secure code? now you develop a whole program to make that happen. besides -- >> how do you make that foolproof? >> plus how do you get the communication from the cabin, and to who? that's the other part. now you're solving a problem by making another problem. sometimes keeping it simple is
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the easiest way. >> thank you very much. go to cnn.com to real julia's op-said. thank you so much. coming up we're going to switch gears and tack about a major law signed in the state of indiana, signed by the governor. some are applauding it some are in the streets protesting, charles barkley weighing in the ceo of apple weighing in. we'll talk about it next. it's more than a network. it's how you stay connected. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner you get an industry leading broadband
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is not backing down amid criticism and protests over his state's new religious freedom
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law. some argue that this law will allow private businesses to refuse to serve gay and lesbian customers in the name of religious freedom. the governor vehemently defended the law and said it is designed to protect people's rights not to take them away. >> is tolerance a two-way street or not? i mean you know there's a lot of talk about tolerance in this country today having to do with people on the left and, but here in indiana steps forward to protect the freedom of religion for people of faith and families of faith in our state and this avalanche of intolerance has been poured on our state. it's just outrageous. >> along with some of the outrage there is backlash from some companies trying to get this law changed or pulled. they're posting signs and saying their business serves everyone. asked by abc's george stephanopoulos if this law would allow, for example, a florist in
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indiana to refuse to serve a gay couple at their wedding the governor did not answer yes or no but he said there's been shameless rhetoric about the law in the media and online. we invited the governor of indiana on this program and he declined our request. let's talk about it with cnn commentator l.c. and thank you both for being here. >> the republican mayor of india upon an liss split with his republican governor his own party saying this law will hurt his city's economy. we've seen businesses like sales force.com, angie's list scrapping their multibillion expansion plans in the state. apple ceo tim cook tweeting this week saying quote, apple is open for everyone and we are deeply disappointed in indiana's new law. ben, let me go to you first. what's your reaction to this law? >> i think this is the biggest amount of phony outrage i've seen from the left in a long time.
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you have a federal law that states exactly what their law says in indiana. you have 20 other states including illinois and it was supported by barack obama. he voted for the same exact law in his state. you have a democrat in chuck schumer that introduced this law in 1993 and it passed unanimously in the house. it was signed by bill clinton. so you had a democrat who thought of it and a democrat who signed it into law and you have a current sitting president that also supported this law and if these people that are outraged over this i'm waiting for them to go into other state, 20 plus and start picketing those governors and those legislator but not one of them will go to the white house and demand the president take back his vote or change the federal law. this is nothing more than bullying from the lbgt activist community to rip on a state and try to them for something all over the state all over the
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country. >> l.c. before i get to you i want to clarify one thing. i read the law. it's very, very broad and also some legal experts telling cnn that it is not identical to the laws you just mentioned, ben. it is very broad and frankly, we have to see how it is applied and how this plays out and if businesses do bring -- let me finish. >> and you took the verbiage from illinois. >> okay but they took the verbiage a lot of it from illinois. >> i want to get to l.c. i'm just stating that the legal experts we talked to say it is not the exact same law and it is very broad and you have to see how it is applied. in indiana sexual orientation is not a protected class and the governor of indiana was asked by george stephanopoulos if he would push for it to be added as a protective class and he said he is not planning to do that. would making it a protective class solve this issue? >> well this really isn't about indiana, to tell you the truth. this is about mike pence and his hopeful goals for 2016.
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remember toward the end of last year his name was among those governors who were whispered as a possible 2016 candidate. what this law does for him and not for the state of indiana and for him is elevated profile and allow him to become more attractive to those very conservative members of the right wing who want a very conservative candidate for president. that's what this is really about. if he really cared about his state as soon as his state's commerce said this is a bad idea as soon as his own party members in indianapolis said this is a bad idea he should have started rethinking that and what this does is elevate his positioning so he is now being talked about scott walker with a lot of brass. that's what this does for him. >> l.z. i agree with him on one point, though. >> his state lawmakers and those state legislature are the ones that passed this both houses and brought it up for him. >> l.z. made a brilliant point. he said this is about politics
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and he nailed it. this is not about the law or concern truly over the law. this is a hit job by those on the left who want to go after republican governors -- >> no it's not a hit job. >> let me finish. every democrat that has supported every same type of legislation including barack obama in illinois and bill clinton who signed it you were nowhere to be found ripping on them. the 20-plus states that have this law, no one is ripping on the liberal governors in some of those states and no one at the federal level is trying to overturn the federal law that does the same thing. >> l.z. >> this is nothing but politics. >> ben -- ben, first of all, clearly your perspective of the lgbt movement is very limited because for you to run off no one and nobody means you don't know really what's going on behind closed doors. >> why aren't they yelling at the white house to change the law? >> why don't you ask jan brewer whether or not there's been
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conversations about this law being legal or not? >> why don't they go to the federal government to change the law? >> first of all, the lgbt community has been aggressive and attacking the laws that bill clinton has signed that has restricted us from don't ask don't tell to defense of marriage act and you can be very well sure that there are many members of the lgbt community that is not pleased with this youed owe compromise in terms of this particular law that we're talking about, but the fact is that this law that you're talking about federally is not the law that was signed in indiana. i don't know why you are trying to equate two. they are not. >> gentlemen -- gentlemen, i have to leave it there. i have to get a break and i have to leave it there. come back with me on this program next weekend when the ncaa final four will be held in the city of indianapolis and we'll continue the discussion then. thank you, gentlemen. i appreciate it. coming up next we'll talk about the latest in the deadly horrific crash of flight 9525. back in a moment. you show up. you stay up. you listen. you laugh.
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6:00 eastern. you're in the cnn "newsroom." i'm poppy harlow in new york. today what may be the final words spoken by captain of the commercial flight that crashed in the french alps. a german tabloid newspaper publishing a summary of the cockpit voice recording retrieved from the wreckage of germanwings flight 9525. who leaked that recording is still unknown and french officials are dismayed that it has been released. the microphone in the cockpit that picks up the captain locked outside of his own cockpit banging on the door shouting shouting for his co-pilot to open it. passengers can also be heard in the background screaming. the co-pilot andreas lubitz did not open that door. by all accounts he intentionally steered that plane into the mountains. police searching his home found
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drugs and wriped up notes from doctors saying he was unfit to fly this week. executives at the airline said he had no idea that he was under mental healthcare or that he was in any way unfit to fly that aircraft. 150 people were onboard the airbus 320. today pope francis took time during his palm sunday mass to pray for those who died in the crash. will ripley joins me this evening from cologne, germany where parent company lufthansa is headquartered. i want to be very clear here. none of us here at cnn have heard this cockpit audio recording and we have only seen a summary of it from this german newspaper. take us through what they are reporting. >> reporter: a german newspaper that is a tabloid, we should point out that does get a lot of things right, but at times poppy has been accused of embellishing. in this case we certainly hope they've been accurately reporting what was on this on
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the other hand the contents of this transcript and for the families of the people onboard is mortifying and something they never needed to hear frankly because it would indicate that they had, the people on the plane for eight minutes knew something was horribly wrong as the plane was going down closer to the french alps. you hear andreas lubitz speaking before takeoff to his pilot, patrick sonden enheimer who had mentioned he didn't have a chance to use the restroom before they took off. and the co-pilot and pilot would stay together during the entire time. once they reached their cruising altitude of 28,000 feet he made it clear he needed to leave the cockpit to use the restroom and you can hear lubitz telling his captain, okay. you can go. you can go now and you hear the captain leaving the cockpit telling lub toits take over and that's when investigators believe he locked the pilot out and then started that descent. at 10:29 a.m. the flight radar
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monitors noticed the plane started to go down and it was a rapid descent and it was noticeable to people in the back because by 10:32 air traffic control were trying to contact the plane and the alarms saying the descent was happening too quickly and according to the newspaper there is a loud bang on the door and the captain is heard screaming for god's sake open the door and all of this playing out in very frightened passengers and some of them could be heard screaming at 10:32, but the plane would stay in the air descending for another eight minutes. at 10:35, loud metallic bangs are heard and the captain heroically trying to break in and trying to stop this disaster an he wasn't able to get into the cockpit. no word no response from the co-pilot just the sound of his breathing which is chilling in itself as he sat there and piloted the plane for 90 seconds, more alarms going off, telling that the terrain was approaching and he's disregarding and the plane keeps
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going lower. 16,000 feet the captain screaming open the damn door and 10:38 a.m. and the plane keeps descending into the french alps and you hear the co-pilot breathing normally and the plane now at 13,000 feet. two minutes later with passengers looking out their windows and seeing the mountains getting closer and closer the plane's right wing scrapes the mountaintop and you hear more screaming from the back. 149 people defenseless as all of this is happening and lubitz flies that plane into the mountain and the recording goes silent. the question now, poppy, was this a spur of the moment decision or was this something that had been planned out, premeditated for a while? that's the question that investigators are trying to piece together. they certainly didn't want this audio released at this point in the investigation where they still haven't looked at the data recorders and they still don't have all of the facts, but what they do have now are very very upset families who now know just how long it took for the plane to go down and people knowing that whole time for eight minutes that something was
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horribley wrong. poppy? >> it is unconscionable. will ripley thank you for the reporting live from cologne, germany. we have cnn aviation correspondent richard quest in tokyo, and a pilot himself, miles o'brien. you are appalled that this has been released? >> absolutely. absolutely. this not an issue of freedom of information. this is not about revealing something that we don't know. we have known the salient facts since thursday morning. we have known that he was locked out. we have known that he banged on the door. we have known that there was screaming. we have known that there was the sound of breathing. we've even known the timeframe of it because the prosecutor told us all of this on thursday morning. >> right. >> all this does is to use a phrase tittle tattle
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titillating, and he summed it up voyeuristic. if -- if poppy, we had not known any of this i would be the first person who said we need to know or someone hiding something, i would say yep, we needed to know but we knew. >> miles o'brien, to you as a pilot and aviation analyst and expert in this what do you make of a, what we've learned and much of what we knew as richard says but also the fact that this was leaked by someone? >> well as a journalist poppy, you will not get me on the record saying it's a bad idea to report a scoop. build whatever you may say about their credibility, they've got a good story here so i'm not going to go out against that and i would offer up this and i know in the face of it it would seem like an affront to the families and it's an awful tragedy, but i will tell you that every second of pain and suffering that their
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attorneys can document a cruise to the bottom line and buttresses their legal case and so having this information out there actually helps the families in the long run. the other thing i will tell you is the flight data recorder has not been discovered and the internet is alive with all kind of conspiracy theory so to the extent that this helps alay a lot of that i think it's of value to get this information out. knowledge, information, needs to be free and this is a perfect example of that. >> i'm sorry, poppy. please miles. this does -- bearing in mind the prosecutor gave us the same information from the same source miles. there's nothing in this that had to be gotten and as you know in the annex 13 final report and in the discovery process every word of this would come out in a more contextall fashion, miles. >> it's going to come out eventually it's just a matter of timing. why not now? >> not at this point because the
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investigation isn't complete miles and this is a sacred part of accident investigation, the transcripts and the privacy to all the families. it's not necessarily -- if you have an opportunity to listen to a cockpit voice recorder that you know the endgame it's a frightening, awful, terrible experience and the public doesn't need to consume this kind of information at this point in time. >> let me be clear. i'm not saying release the recordings. we're not talking about releasing the recordings. >> transcripts. >> substantive transcripts. that's a different story. >> sorry, poppy. >> i want to talk to les about, as a pilot, what we have learned from this bild report that ticked through the timeline there. is there anything significant about that that stands out to you the most. >> most of it sounds routine, yeah maybe he urged the captain to go to the bathroom and now his plan is now coming together maybe it started at the gate who knows? the end result is the tragedy that we've all been witnessing
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but the bottom line is him leaving the cockpit, more than likely he said you have the airplane and that was all very routine up until the point that you heard the warning system say that the descent rate was too high. that to me means he disconnected the autopilot and was going to fly the airplane for the last time in his life. the terrain warning, the machine did what it was supposed to do and it warned any pilot that he's getting close to terrain and he's got to pull up. other than that most of it was routine. i cannot as a captain conceive and make that assessment the co-pilot for not locking me out of the door. this is impossible. and then his final realization that was happening and doing everything he could to get back in. that captain should be held as a total hero. >> because he absolutely is and we learned from his grandmother who said he is a true hero a father only 34 years old and patrick sondheimer richard to you, from what bild is report,
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what stands out to you the most? >> nothing. obviously, i associate myself with les' comments than what the captain did, but it was a quixotic attempt in the sense that he was never going to break that door down but god bless him for trying. we have been given -- look when you ask people when viewers are listening and watching the first thing everybody is saying is what was it like? and we now know what it was like but we have not advanced the question of why and this idea of telling them now you can go. the captain said that to him before he took off. you haven't had a chance to go if the bathroom before they took off? is that a chance? who knows? >> to you as a pilot, the father of one of the victims, a 28-year-old spoke out at the crash site today and said i don't care to know what the motive was or why this happened
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but i care to know that things will change that airlines will protect their people that they will keep a closer eye on their pilots. do you think anything in the system needs to change? >> lots needs to change and starting right off with the fact that this was an extremely green pilot, so inexperienced. he would not be sitting in that seat in a u.s. carrier. you'd have more than twice as much time logged. he'd have an airline transport pilot certificate, a ph.d of flying. neither of those things in the case. this cadet program that lufthansa uses i think is fundamentally not as safe. among other thing, first of all, he didn't have the capability really to fly that plane and frankly, my insurance wouldn't have allowed him to fly my single-engine airplane and there he was at the controls of an a-320 and taken aside his psychological condition, but the other thing is that period of
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time that 1500 hours and the atp that puts him in cockpits with all kinds of pilots over a much longer period and things that were awry might have come to light and that's how the system has worked for years and years and those low-cost carriers trying to rush people into seats and trying to fill the pilot shortage and not paying them enough money and trying to get them in there soon this is what happens. >> miles o'brien and les, richard quest, thank you very much. stay with me gentlemen. coming up next we'll talk about new details about how doctors were treating the co-pilot what medication he was reportedly given. we'll talk about it with our dr. sanjay gupta next.
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gupta and there are reports out of le parisiene, the french newspaper, what they're calling a general anxiety disorder and that andreas lubitz received injections of anti-psychotic drugs in 2010. what do you make of that? >> the medication they're talking about is the lan zapene is a medication that's given orally or as an injection and often times it's given because someone has significant agitation, if you will associated with psychosis or even just bipolar depression and significant bipolar depression but i think the thing that you really take away from it is that this is a pretty powerful medication it and it speaks to the severity of the illness and people can have depressive disorders and they can get treatment and they can be very productive if you're having psychosis with schizophrenia, for example, that's a lifelong
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illness and you want to know how severe this is going to be and this speaks to how significant it was at least at one time five years ago. >> but if he was treated, sanjay if these reports are accurate with this injection in 2010 and this is 2015 i wonder would it have any impact now? >> if it's sort of depression that became more of a depression associated with psychosis you can have very effective treatment for that. if this was more of a schizophrenia, you can have effective treatment, but it is a lifelong illness. was he continuing to get treatment? was it different forms of treatment that he was getting for psychosis, that's not a detail we have right now, but that would be a very important detail and that medication alone and that injection from 2010 wouldn't have lasting effects from that five years later. >> right. >> but the real question is if he had that diagnosis, was he continuing to get treated? how functional was he? >> and we know that he according to investigators ripped up
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doctors notes saying he was unfit to fly this very week. finally, sanjay you noted one of the side effects of some of this can be blurred vision and the new york times had reported he had some vision issues. >> again, it's one of those you don't want to start speculating too much on all these things back and forth and the idea that you have a medication that could be providing benefit. you're a pilot and it's causing blurred vision and it may make you not want to continue to take that medication obviously, so you know who knows? if he was prescribed this medication and you have the injectable form five years ago and now taking an oral antipsychotic and not taking it because it was causing these detrimental side effects and that could be very concerning as well and also the idea that in a psychotic state versus a manic state with bipolar, your mind can be racing fully and yet outwardly you may not have many
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indicators and it may not be enough to ask of anybody to pick up on side effects of these medications and it's quite possible there wasn't much to pick up on in terms of clues here. >> that's what everyone is saying they had no idea. dr. sanjay gupta, thank you. we appreciate it. >> we'll keep talking about thissa ever a quick break. should pilots have to sacrifice their privacy if they want to fly passengers? we're going to talk about that issue of where the line is on medical privacy for pilots next.
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more now on the crash of germanwings flight 9525. a key question should doctors have to report the co-pilot andreas lubitz's mental health state to the airline? let me bring in doctor and columnist he just wrote a column about exactly this and also criminal defense attorney brian claypool who spent part of his career defending french airbus. thank you, gentlemen, for being here. >> doctor in the column you just wrote, you write the relationship between mental illness or mass murder whether by guns terrorism or airplane is indisputable and the time to take measures to prevent deaths caused by that relationship is long past due.
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so this brings up the key question right now it is up to the pilots to self-report any mental illness, bout with depression and any medications they may be taking to treat it with the airline and is self-reporting enough doctor? >> it's not enough poppy and this raises a whole new issue between physicians other professionals and the patient in a whole new domain of health privacy that's going to raise a lot of questions and concerns. of course as a doctor we can only tell the patient what they're supposed to do or not to do and then as you said it's going to be up to the patient in terms of making the determination whether they tell their employer. the doctor cannot tell the employer under privacy laws and the employer is not allowed to reach out or understand at an individual level and it's still up to the patient in terms of reporting that. >> let me ask you this doctor and i don't want to interrupt, but i do want it to be clear for the viewers, and i was reading
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through the hipaa laws and deep into them it says that covered entities which are doctors may disclose protected health information that they believe is necessary to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to a person or to the public. >> yeah. that's a great point because a covered entity and there is a very fine line. an employer is technically a covered entity but typically what employers do when they want to reach out directly to an employee an employer can never know that an individual has a given illness and they're not allowed to use that information under hipaa to reach out to them directly but what they can do and they do is to hire third parties, usually through the insurance companies who are contracted to reach directly out to the individual. they know who the individual is and they can engage in a conversation and a program to
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ensure that that patient is getting what they're supposed to in a direct follow up and that could be a condition like diabetes or it could be a mental health issue. >> to you, brian, does this when you look at hipaa laws and this covered entity does that include doctors meaning are doctors completely prohibited from telling an employer look i wrote this note saying this co-pilot was unfit to fly or does this sort of part of the hipaa laws allow the doctors when they think they could be a risk to the public allow the doctors to tell the employer? >> poppy, the key in the law that you just read is the word may. you said the doctors may report it. we need a change in the hipaa laws and worldwide we need changes that say that doctors must report the key word must and make them a mandated reporter that if they suspect especially with the pilot, if they suspect a pilot has a medical condition that impairs his or her ability to fly a
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plane or a mental health disorder that compromises his or her ability to fly a plane, then they must report that to the employer and if need be law enforcement, and if they don't there are consequences which means criminal prosecution for failing to report. the only way to stop this from happening again is if everybody has skin in the game. the medical health personnel have skin in the game therapists have skin in the game and that there are consequences. public safety trumps privacy. >> doctor? >> i complete -- >> would you be onboard with a change like that? >> i completely agree. i think that physicians have a new responsibility but it's a fine line because you'll ask many physicians today and they'll tell you as a practicing physician most people don't often put into context what it is and the patient situation outside of taking care of the condition and it doesn't matter
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whether you're a bus driver an uber taxi driver or whether you're a pilot. every sickle day every one of us puts our lives in the hands of somebody who we take it for granted has the wherewithal in terms of maintaining the sanctity of that relationship and not putting our lives at risk and we just take that for granted, but there are any number of things that we don't necessarily assess as physicians to know whether the functional status of that individual in that medical condition are adept enough and satisfactory enough for them to perform that you mentioned the blurred vision and i'm an ophthalmologist and it's a good point, but even if you were to measure that his vision is not adequate i think the attorney raises a good point that how are you going to enforce it because it's still left to an individual whose functional state is still a question. >> i want to get brian in here final word.
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>> sure poppy, look the reality is this. lubitz was unfit to be a co-pilot based on the ejection he got that dr. gupta got in 2010. he should have never been a pilot. so if we have new laws in place that mandate that that medical doctor that gave him that shot immediately reports that to lufthansa, then i guarantee you he would not have been flying that plane. >> we do have to wrap it up but i have to wrap it up here is the fear that if you do that right? many of these pilots it is believed people would not go get the treatment they need for fear of losing their job. i'm not sure gentlemen, we've got to go. >> they shouldn't be a pilot. >> thank you for being with me i appreciate it very much. >> thanks poppy. >> up next we will talk about the search that continues for recovering the victims' remains. it is a very grim task that is going on in the alps while the families mourn loved ones who they will never see again.
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our coverage continues next.
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the german tabloid newspaper bild has published what is described as a summary transcript of voice recordings made in the cockpit of the airline that crashed into the french alps. cnn has translated that summary and we cannot independently verify that it is indeed a correct transcript of what actually was captured on that cockpit audio recording. the voices paint a picture of what started out to be a normal routine on the flight deck turning suddenly desperate when the co-pilot refuses, refuses to open the door for the captain
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whom he has locked out. according to the transcript 13 minutes passed between when the pilot starts banging on the cockpit door killing all 150 people onboard. on the rugged hillsides of the french alps a grim task continues day by day, hour by hour the recovery of the remains of those 150 people onboard flight 9525. teams on the ground now say they have identified between 70 and 80 of the victims. let me bring in cnn international correspondent karl penhaul. you have been talking to families of the passengers. i cannot imagine what it is like for them. >> reporter: absolutely poppy. of course we've been doing a lot of reporting about transcripts, about laws and states of mind and about the whole psychological thing. i want to take this right back to you, the real basic human level. today i spent most of the day at
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the memorial site about two and a half miles from the actual crash site and from what i've seen is a reminder that there are people of all nations on that flight. there were people of all ages and the people i've seen shuffling up to a marble plaque have been elderly moms and dads and they could be your and mine mom and dad, i've seen brothers and sisters hunched and broken. i've seen husbands and wives looking into those mountains and looking for inspiration, looking for some kind of comfort, and i want to show you this report. a father grieves. a mother and a sister wonder why. milad islami i was a sports journalist from iran. it was his big brother. >> he said to one of his friends that if someone killed and the flight crashed it would be okay
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because it's for one minute and it's gone and you are in the sky and your soul will go and he had spent eight minutes. >> eight minutes for the co-pilot to crash an airliner into the french alps. but milad's uncle prefers to focus on his life not death. >> he was a fantastic journalist and he is still one of the best we have in iran and because he worked not only as a journalist. he worked with his heart. >> milad had been in spain with friend and fellow journalist jose angevidi. they'd taken the photos. they'd been covering the soccer game barcelona versus real madrid. he was a lifelong barcelona fan. his hero? >> absolutely messi. >> local village mayor francois
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balick is here to help console all of the grieving families and on sunday he sent this digger to carve a track to the crash site that's around four kilometers and two and a half miles away as the crow flies and until now accessible only by helicopter. >> translator: i felt the families wanted this and they asked me to get them as close as possible as if every meter mattered to them he says. relatives ask them to describe the area closest to the crash. >> reporter: this was a corner of paradise but now there is the before and after the accident he says. 0 i tell mashid and dawood about the alpine scenery and while flowers grow and melted snow runs in crystal streams. >> everything is great for him, but for us we just -- we just
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can't calm down with this picture that he is now -- >> milad and all those who flew with him, the kings of the alps. now that of course is just one story. on that plane, there were 150 stories. 150 life stories, and that's what we've also got to do. we've got to remember the manner in which those people lived, at the same time when we analyze the nature of their deaths poppy. >> karl penhaul with absolutely beautiful reporting for us this evening about what really matter the people. thank you, karl. we'll be right back. it's happening. today, more and more people with type 2 diabetes are learning about long-acting levemir® an injectable insulin that can give you blood sugar control for up to 24 hours. and levemir® helps lower your a1c.
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if a pilot steps out of a cockpit a flight attendant must step in. that is a rule in the united states and it is being adopted by an increasing number of airlines including lufthansa, they implemented that just days after that horrific crash. so is this just the beginning of protocol changes when it comes to the cockpit in particular. i am joined now by cnn aviation correspondent richard quest, and les avit joins me as well and in tokyo, a pilot and cnn analyst
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miles o'brien. richard, to you first. >> yes. >> what is the number one thing, if anything should change across the board in the u.s. and overseas? >> i can't say at this point. what we've seen in this example is the very instrument which was used to solve one problem created another problem and it was a complicated piece of equipment with the time delays and it wasn't just something thrown together. a lot of people thought it would be used against the aircraft itself and they're foolish and --? it wasn't the rule here. >> sorry? >> it wasn't the rule. >> it's now come in and it will become universal, and of course it's still not entirely certain it would have done anything, but i'll accept for the purposes of your question there will be more psychological testing on cockpit etiquette and doors and mechanisms. >> miles, you believe, look
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this pilot, co-pilot did not have the hours, did not have the training, did not have the experience to even be piloting this plane. >> i think that's true poppy. and you have an industry that is very cost conscious and really ever since going back to the days of deregulation in 1979 management at airlines has really put pilots under the gun as far as giving back wages and on it goes. they treat their pilots like data points. there is a terrible adversary relationship that has developed over the years with the labor strive and in that environment is any surprise that people are reluctant to come forward and say hey, i've got a problem here? >> les, you're a commercial pilot. we've seen the fights that go on and on between airline pilot, their union and the airline that leads to strikes and that is not what causes something like this. this is a person clearly disturbed with a mental illness,
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but does miles has a point? >> miles has a good point, and i agree with miles on that aspect of it but i think we have to differentiate between experience and flight time. in other words, this individual was trained specifically for that job. somebody as miles has talked about in that segment here in the united states would be 1500 hours which is the point that he can sit in the right seat of commercial airlines. so that's going to give you more experience and the idea that i'm not going to go through that thunderstorm and more aviation type experience and that doesn't mean he's less qualified and can't fly the airplane and we took people in world war ii with no aviation experience and sent them over to fight a war and so there is an aspect of that but miles does have a good point with reference. >> one of the things that everyone hopes will not come out of this is stigmatizing people that are battling depression because of these reports that lubitz was battling depression psychosis, et cetera and we were talking about this in the break.
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i would like you both and miles to jump in and address this. if someone is a pilot battling depression les, you say you would still fly with them. >> yeah. because i understand that aspect that this individual was monitored before he got -- throughout the time that he began that medication and in addition richard and i were talking just before we went on air, pilots have an incredible ability to compartmentalize. that's a safe place, a cockpit for them. they get away from all their family problems and things that are causing that depression and that's not saying that that's necessarily a great thing, but if they're being medically treated for it i'm still comfortable with that because he's still the same colleague that's qualified and experienced in that seat. >> you said the pilot battling depression and that's different from the pilot that's being treated or under treatment. >> and the faa rules make that very clear. >> once the pilot is treated for
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it as in any business, we can't stag mattize people. you have to monitor, look and do all of the right procedures and i don't have a problem with it. >> miles, do you as a pilot? >> well, i mean it's an evolving thing. it was only a few years ago that taking antidepressants was disqualifying for pilots and it wasn't a problem if you were taking heart medication if you were flying an airplane or any number of medications and for whatever reason, antidepressants were part of a much wider, societal bias with people against mental illness and until we as a society see a disease of the brain just like it's a disease of the heart this is going to be a problem and i think we're moving in that direction as a society. >> miles, les, richard, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> coming up next we'll hit on some of the other key headlines right now especially air striking looking like it will be the first step in fighting rebels in yemen and what other middle eastern nations are doing
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right now in yemen and also talking about ground troops that may be in yemen within a matter of days and we'll have the latest on that next. ...and the wolf was huffing and puffing... kind of like you sometimes, grandpa. well, when you have copd it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out, which can make it hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor. she said... doctor: symbicort could help you breathe better, starting within 5 minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. symbicort helps provide significant improvement
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an update to the chaos unfolding. there are ominous signs in yemen new evidence that saudi arabian military forces are poised to invade and take on iranian-backed shiite rebels. this video showing saudi tanks on their way to the border in yemen. the houthi rebels in yemen have driven out the president of the country leaving the government in absolute shambles. a journalist there on the ground yesterday telling us they have no idea who is in control. protesters taking to the streets for the chances of a diplomatic settlement are fading as arab nations mobilizing their forces for action possibley in just the next few days. cnn's becky anderson has more.
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>> reporter: as the saudi-led offensive from the air continues to grind down the capabilities of houthi rebels on the ground against yemen there is a very real chance that tens of thousands of arab boots on the ground could be deployed within days to further degrade the iran-backed militia. arab leaders and their delegations have thrashed out plans for an arab military force ostensibly to counter threats of insurgency across the region going forward, concentrating in the first instance in yemen. the so-called sharm el-sheikh declaration called for military action led by the saudis and urged houthis to immediately withdraw from sanaa, government institutions and to surrender their weapons to quote, legitimate authorities. now i guess the implicit understanding being that if they don't there is a mechanism in - place to ratchet up these arab-allied efforts. the president of yemen as we
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know last week he turned up here at the arab league summit over the weekend to rally support for this operation decisive storm and in his opening speech he didn't mince his words denouncing houthi rebels as iran's puppets and warning them that they will be responsible for what happens next in the country. when he flew back to riyadh late last night i sat down with the yemeni foreign minister in the wee hours of this morning, and i asked him about what he believed the addition of ground troops will be and when. >> i think we need ground troops as soon as possible to keep things to hold it together. >> you are talking days? >> could be. >> reporter: this is by no means unanimously supported, dissenting voices from lebanon and iraq baghdad, for example going so far as to say that riad's decision to launch their operation on yemen was hasty. they made it clear that they are
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against military intervention and they called for political dialogue that includes all stakeholders. my sense is that the international community is also eager to promote further discussions possibly hosted by longtime mediator oman. so i guess what happens from now on in will inform the future for yemen and the consequences of a possible all-out fight in what has for many years been a proxy war between saudi and the regional rival iran is what we should be watching out for. becky anderson cnn, sharmel shaikh. el shake. >> and nuclear fekeclear negotiations with iran. will a deal be reached? elise labott has that. >> reporter: poppy, these nuclear talks have intensified over the last 24 hours as the negotiations reached the endgame.
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all of the foreign ministers have arrived and diplomats here tell us that they could see the contours of a deal taking shape. they're trying to find compromises, but those two thorny issues we've been talking about, sanctions and iran's nuclear research and development program remain sticking points and could prevent a deal ahead of tuesday's deadline. iran is demanding all united nations sanctions be lifted immediately and iran could see economic sanctions lifted right away but those u.n. measures will take some time and there's still a big gap on how much research iran can do on nuclear technology while a deal is in effect and iran wants to do much more than the international community is comfortable with. israeli prime minister netanyahu isn't comfortable with any of this. he's saying on sunday that the deal shaping up is worse than israel's deepest fears. it is unclear that this will all come together before tuesday's
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deadline but all sides here say there is a real desire to try to find agreement. everyone very cognizant of the fact that like it or not, if there is no deal congress could impose additional sanks on s impose additional sanks on sanctions on iran as early as next month and that would scuttle any chance of a deal with iran. poppy? >> elise, we'll be watching very closely and elise labott for us in switzerland. quick break. we're back with more headlines after this. they are. the microsoft cloud gives our team the power to instantly deliver critical information to people, whenever they need it. here at accuweather we get up to 10 billion data requests every day. the cloud allows us to scale up so we can handle that volume. we can help keep people safe and to us that feels really good.
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a look at your top stories this hour. an air canada jet touching down short of the runway today as it
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landed in halifax, nova scotia. an airport spokesman calling it a hard landing. it was heavily damaged and the 25 passengers and crew onboard were treated for minor injuries. tunisians marching and they're angered about the terrorist attack in tuneis where 22 people were murdered. they joined italy's prime minister and ambassador under tight security. the bardo museum reopened for the first time today since that horrific attack. >> protests continue in indiana after the governor of indiana signed a controversial religious freemed on law and critics say it dis krim nates, and that was not the intent or the case. major businesses including angie's list and sales force have scrapped their expansion plans in the state in response to this law. we have a lot lined up for you tonight on cnn. a marathon of "finding jesus," episodes coming up including the
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premiere of "finding jesus," the true cross. that sat 9:00 eastern right here on cnn. could pieces of the cross jesus was crouseucified still exist today? the dead sea in israel drying up. tonight's episode of "the wonder list" with bill weir takes you there with cnn. thanks so much for being here. have a great week. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com judas eescariot, the man who betrays jesus in the most infamous act of treachery ever. >> judas is the embody iment of all wickedness the most villainous person in human history. >> evil demonic, the lowest of the low.

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