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tv   New Day  CNN  April 3, 2015 3:00am-6:01am PDT

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iran now in place. but a final agreement is still months away. and not a done deal. negotiators have until the end of june to iron out the details. but there is a lot that can happen between now and then. >> president obama wasting no time selling the agreement, calling it a good deal. yet the landmark pact doing little to ease the standoff between the president and some in congress. the question will congress have the ability to approve or reject it. >> we're covering this story the way only cnn can, glynn ginning with global affairs correspondent elise labott live from switzerland. elise? >> well michaela it was a marathon week of sessions and then after an all-nighter, the negotiators finally came to a broad political framework that puts a lot of limits on iran's nuclear program. but also leaves a lot of it intact. let's talk the key points of the deal. it reduces iran's centrifuges, which enriched uranium by about
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two-thirds they'll have 6,000 left after they had 19,500. it reduces their enriched uranium stockpile. meaning it extends the breakout time that iran won't have enough fissile material to build a bomb for about a year. and then it also lifts sanctions against iran in phases. think the deal has a lot more than me and my colleagues thought it was going to be in it when we were following this all week. but as we say, the devil is in the details. now negotiators have to hammer out a deal before june. i sat down with secretary of state john kerry yesterday and i asked him what happens, because iran's name is not on this actual deal. it's a fact sheet that the u.s. put out. what happenes if iran tries to back-pedal and open up the negotiations again and say they didn't agree to any of that? let's take a listen. >> then they don't get an agreement. look. we're very clear about where we are. >> if they try it renegotiate, you'll end? you won't give them an
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agreement? >> we're not -- we've agreed and we're not going to renegotiate things we've been very clear about that. >> now john kerry and energy secretary monese who was also in the negotiations have to make the hard sell to congress now, that they can make this a good deal for the united states for israel for all parties involved. that's going to be a hard sell. congress is looking for a say in this deal. it looks like they have a veto-proof majority to make that happen. chris? >> all right. it's going to be a question of whether or not did they just agree or did they agree to agree. there's no question president obama is facing an uphill battle to sell this iran framework to a very skeptical and as elise said divided congress. so let's bring in cnn national correspondent sunlen serfaty joining us from the white house with that part of the story. the president doesn't have to go to congress to get a deal like
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this done it could be done by the executive. but with sanctions hanging in the balance. practically he must yes? >> that's what the white house believes. but congress is going to challenge the president on this. there's already a series of defiant bills ready and lined up on capitol hill for him. republicans are saying that this bill this deal has too many concessions to iran. and republicans saying that. but democrats meanwhile, they're saying, they're giving tepid responses at best. now congress is back from recess in two weeks. it is then when senate foreign relations chair, republican bob corker says he will move forward with his bill. this is a bill that has already elicited a veto threat from the white house. it's a bill that ultimately if they're able to get a veto-proof majority it would give congress the ability to approve or reject any final bill. now key here will of course be senate democrats, will they defy the president on this? some have already signed on to the bill. the white house has said that
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will undercut their negotiating ability at the table. and president obama gave a stern warning to congress. >> if congress kills this deal not based on expert analysis and without offering any reasonable alternative, then it's the united states that will be blamed for the failure of diplomacy. international unity will collapse. and the path to conflict will widen. >> and the white house has promised that there will be briefings to congress. they promise high-level engagement to congress. but congress does want more than that. they want a final and formal say in the deal. michaela? >> despite the hard sell from the white house, israel still isn't buying. prime minister benjamin netanyahu has been against the iran nuclear deal from the start. using his strongest language yet to condemn it. i want to turn to oren lieberman, live in jerusalem with reaction there. >> netanyahu has been critical of the deal since the beginning
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and his language has only gotten stronger. in conversation with president obama in which the president tried to reassure netanyahu that israel security was very much in this deal netanyahu said that this deal increases the risk of a quote horrific war. horrific war, some very powerful language coming from netanyahu. he criticized what's in the deal and not in the deal. netanyahu wanted to make sure the deal didn't limit or change iran's nuclear facilities but dismantle them take them apart. netanyahu says the deal doesn't do that. he said he wanted to see the deal tied to lifting of restrictions to iran pulling back its aggression in the region. there again, netanyahu's government says the deal doesn't do that. so what will netanyahu do now? we expect a statement from him shortly. he called an emergency cabinet meeting this afternoon. to we expect a statement coming out of that shortly. remember house speaker boehner was here senator mitch mcconnell is here working closely with congressional republicans to lobby against the deal. we'll see more from that
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perhaps. chris, certainly worth noting that intelligence minister has not ruled out the military option here. >> look everybody is keeping their options on the table. the question becomes is the deal better than no deal? thank you for the reporting. let's get perspective from someone who understands the situation, the phone right now, former secretary of state madeline yaleeine albright an ambassador to the united nations. she's the chairman of the albright stone bridge group. good to have you on the phone. is this an acceptable framework, madam secretary? >> i've been looking through it and following this very closely. -day think it's even more than an acceptable framework. it has done a lot of what people were demanding. in terms of the two-thirds of the installed centrifuges have to be reduced. there is a way that iran has agreed not to enrich uranium over a low level for at least 15
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years. it's agreed to reduce its current stockpile. i won't go through all the details of this. but it really has done an awful lot. the key part here that i think is so important, is the inspection system that is set up for iaea. everything has to be verified. and the sanctions, are dependant or the removal of them on that verification and i think that what it has done is in fact increase the breakout time for iran to go forward, if they did feel that they wanted to produce a weapon. so i think it has done what was promised. now we are going to be looking at the details as the framework is not enlarged but followed out in terms of the details of it. >> now a framework is not a deal itself. everybody should understand that. and there's a big chance that not iran but the u.s. congress may upset this process. how important is it to you, that a deal gets done? how strong a message do you want to send about that?
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>> i think it's absolutely essential. because this is one of the issues that has troubled everybody in terms of nuclear power here. in that particular area. the capability to do a bomb. i do think that this is an essential deal it is a good deal as we see it now. and i do think, i obviously have always believed that congress should have a voice in talking about foreign policy. but i think people have to be very careful not to undo something that has been worked on so carefully by experts. who are going to be very willing to come up and explain this to members of congress. and i think that one has to be careful not to unravel something that has been so carefully designed. and as secretary kerry said and the president has said basically nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. so the next months are going to be very important. >> madam secretary quickly what do you make of the paranoia or suspicion that iran is just playing the p5+1 and using this
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nuclear negotiation to garner some softness in the other areas that matter to them. like what they're doing in yemen. what they're doing in syria, what they're doing in iraq. and that they don't really have to agree to anything here they're just buying time. >> i don't agree with that. i think obviously negotiations take time. but there are so much issues that involve our having a relationship with iran we haven't had one since 1979. and developing that and then working on the other issues. there's no question that what iran is doing in the region is very serious. and has to be dealt with. but i think that having this framework agreement in place will make that more possible. and that we obviously can't forget about the other parts, but we also i think have to be really careful in terms of having the option of force on the table. but not threatening it to such a point. that things could get even worse in the middle east. >> secretary of state madeleine albright thank you very much for the help as always.
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let's turn now to hilary mann leverett the author of "going to iran." she's a former clinton and bush national security council adviser and a state department middle east expert. she's directly negotiated with iran over the pursuit of al qaeda. so always good to have you on the show. you understand the dynamic there very well. the major push-back that we'll start hearing starting this morning is -- you don't do a deal with the devil. >> yeah. we're certainly going to hear that. and i think that these talks are fragile. this interim agreement, this understanding is fragile. it's going to be an extremely tough road ahead. but i have negotiated with iranian officials, including the current foreign minister zarif, over afghanistan and al qaeda. and those were incredibly productive constructive negotiations and discussions. we worked very well with them in afghanistan. the iranians are one ally in the region that see eye to eye with
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us against al qaeda and the islamic state. we're working with them essentially hand in hand in iraq against the islamic state. as we did in afghanistan against al qaeda. so there are areas where we have worked with them productively constructively in the past and i think this nuclear deal shows that we can also work with them constructively on proliferation, nonproliferation issues. >> you used the word ally in iran, you don't hear that very often around here. >> that's right. >> another point of push p-back will be moment you let up on the sanctions, they are going to go to town and get everything that they wanted. they're going do show that they're stronger than the u.s. and the p5+1. and you'll never get the inspections right. >> you know what's so fascinating about the islamic republic of iran, they've built an economy, a country, a system over the past 35 years that is really in a lots of ways self-sufficient. when they had the revolution in 1979 they were completely dependant on the u.s. military. they couldn't produce a single
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bullet. but what they've done under sanctions, on their own, is build up military industrial complex, which can protect their country. so the idea that sanctions somehow dissuades them just defies the record. when i first started arguing within the bush administration that we needed to deal with iranians on the nuclear issue back in 2003, the iranians had 164 centrifuges. as we imposed more and more sanctions, they were able to acquire more and more centrifuges. today they have nearly 20,000 that's up from 164 to 20,000. they did that under sanctions. the idea that lifting sanctions is going to let them do x or y or z just defies the record. >> or that extra sanctions will be what puts a foot on their throat so to speak. you're saying it may not have the teeth that people expect. the last point that i want you to make here on this deal in the early stage is that congress is going to say, no way, we're not giving it to you, mr. president, we're going to use these sanctions effectively to
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frustrate your efforts in this deal unless we're brought on board. as a policy expert in dealing with congress do you think that congress has a right to approve this deal? what-day do you think the proper legal dynamic is here? >> the constitution sets up that diplomacy is entirely within the realm of the executive. but congress does an oversight role. especially because so many of the sanctions were legislated. so they're entirely within congress's role. but the critical problem here is for president obama to make the strategic sell. if he focuses on it just as an arms control agreement, my concern is that it will die on the vine just like president carter's salt ii treaty with the soviets over their strategic arsenal. we've seen failure before. we could see failure again if it's a narrow arms control issue. if there's a broader strategic case like nixon and kissinger vis-a-vis china, i think that will sell. but president obama has been extremely reluctant to make that
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strategic case. and instead, he seems to be going down the path potentially of president carter where he's dependant on a congress to okay an arms control agreement which they may, there may not be any arms control agreement with iran that would be good enough for them. >> well if the president is dependant on congress, history of his presidency shows the prospects are not good, we'll keep a close eye on it hilary mann leverett thank you as always. in kenya, a massive search is on for a key suspect in thursday's horrifying massacre. at a university in kenya. al shabab terrorists raiding the campus targeting nonmuslims and executing them. 147 students are dead. we're told there are still bodies on the school ground. we're going to have more for you coming up on that. we have a live reporter on the ground. we'll talk to him about the scene today. we understand the university has been closed indefinitely. we'll talk to him. we're going to take a short break. >> this morning it's been just
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over 24 hours. since al shabab gun men terrorized this university in kenya. now with at least 147 dead and nearly 600 evacuated, the community of garissa in complete agony. the massacre beginning just before dawn on thursday. the terrorists descending on early-morning prayers reportedly separating muslims from christians. and killing the christians or taking them hostage. >> they started jumping up and down running for their lives, it's unfortunate where they are going to is where the gunshots were coming from. >> the gunmen then going dormitory to dormitory. before kenyan forces eventually corner them. a standoff lasting for hours, finally at around 9:00 p.m. officials announce the end of the operation. >> garissa kenya. >> we're going to be giving you the latest information as we get
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it. what's going on in kenya as michaela was telling you, there's still bodies on the ground it's a very fluid situation. we still don't know exactly what the numbers were involved. either for the victims or on the attackers. as soon as we get our communications up there and get better reporting, we'll be back to it. we have breaking news for you in the investigation into the crash of germanwings flight 9525. the second black box has been found. and has been downloaded and it does seem to confirm that the co-pilot purposely accelerated the plane's descent, slamming it into a mountain in the french alps. as investigators make a disturbing find as well on andreas lubitz' tablet device cnn's will ripley zwroinsjoins us live from dusseldorf germany. it's intriguing understanding the planning that went into this horrible situation, will. >> the information on the tablet crucial for investigators. because european official is telling us it essentially proves the theory that this is pre
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premeditated murder. premeditated murder of 149 innocent people. breaking just within the last hour the insights from the flight data recorder recovered in the french alps. it was buried in eight inches of debris because of the force of the impact. and now the data recorder shows that andreas lubitz changed the auto pilot settings bringing the plane down he set it for 100 feet a collision course with the mountain range. and at the same time he was manually increasing the speed to make sure that that plane hit the mountain completely obliterating it. very disturbing and the evidence that was seized from his apartment reveals more insight about what he was planning. appalling new insights into the disturbed mind of germanwings co-pilot andreas lubitz. a tablet seized from lubitz' home contained chilling internet searches he allegedly made the week leading up to the crash. prosecutors found search terms relating to methods to commit suicide. cockpit doors, and their
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security measures. all which investigators say amounts to premeditated murder. >> lot of pilots don't know exactly how to turn that lock off, so it may have been that he was looking it up to make sure he understood how to keep the pilot out. >> new details continue to emerge about lubitz' rapidly deteriorating psychological health. law enforcement source close to the investigation said lubitz suffered severe depression and stress late last year. he was doctor-shopping, seeing as many as six for ongoing sleep and vision problems. lubitz was even prescribed heavy depression medication. the source believes he was not taking the day of the crash. >> medications that are treating depression sometimes they can make someone sleepy. they can be a sedating but they can also have nearly the opposite effect. it can sort of make them become more on the sort of manic side of things. >> he apparently told some doctors he was fearful of losing his pilot license because of his medical issues. a potentially key motive for the
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deadly crash. and this morning, michaela as information continues to come in it becomes more and more clear that this was a deliberate act on the part of andreas lubitz. the one key question remains unanswered and that is why did he do this. michaela? >> something we may never fully understand. all right, will thank you so much for that reporting. we turn back here in america, two women in new york charged with planning an isis-inspired bomb plot. authorities say one woman had repeated contact with members of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. we're told they planned to target police military or government sites. in the meantime an american citizen accused of supporting al qaeda detained in pakistan and secretly flown back to new york to face a judge. that 29-year-old allegedly plotted to attack americans abroad. lawmakers in indiana and arkansas swiftly approving fixes that aim to remove the risk of using religious freedom laws to
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defend discrimination. neither state gave lgbt advocates what they want which is protection as a class. under state law. now indiana added to its existing bill and arkansas passed a narrower version of its original bill which now is virtually identical to the religious freedom law that the federal government has. >> this is a story that almost defies understanding. and emotional reunion for a family who feared it may never happen. 37-year-old louis jordan left a virginia hospital a day after his remarkable rescue at sea. when asked if he ever lost hope jordan said he couldn't think like that. because of his family. >> most valuable thing we have are our relationships and those we love. and how we treat other people. that's what makes us precious. that's what makes people precious and valuable. is that we care for each other and we love each other and we live our love. >> so the back story for those of you that may have missed it jordan had been missing for 66
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days spotted in his disabled sailboat by a passing cargo ship about 200 miles off the coast of north carolina he was medivac'd by the coast guard to the hospital. what's remarkable chris, is that he only had a shoulder injury but otherwise was okay. he apparently rationed his food. he said then he ate raw fish and drank rainwater in order to survive. >> it sounds like a movie. like part of the "unbroken" movie that came out about zamperini. i can't believe, imagine what goes through your mind for two months. >> survive. more than that. incredible. >> we're going to take a break. when we come back more on the bloody terror attack that has kenya and the world reeling. al shabab terrorists singling out christian students for slaughter. what do these smalian extremists want? and we are going to take a look at some of the revamped religious freedom laws in two states.
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a manhunt is under way for the alleged mastermind behind the bloody rampage at a university in kenya. officials are offering as $215,000 reward for information about muhammed muhammed. thursday's attack by al shabab terrorists left 147 people dead most of them students. joining me is the chief africa correspondent for the african news channel inca. robin creel who covered thursday's terror attack. i want you to bring us the latest on the manhunt for the alleged mastermind. we understand the four attackers were killed in the siege yesterday. what do we know about this individual? >> well we know that he's from that area. he is from garissa town. he's well known to have led certain factions of al shabab al qaeda-linked militant group. al shabab especially in the
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juba region that's the border really between kenya and somalia. he has been wanted for a long time in connection with a number of other bloody murders in especially in the case of a quarry massacre as it were where about 30 miners were shot dead in their sleep. he has been wanted by kenyan authorities for a long time. they've now upped the price on his head. >> i understand there was a gret against this university by al shabab in december. was it your sense, was it from the same subsect at al shabab. was there anyone doing at the university to make it safer for the students in the time before the attack? >> there's been a number of threats throughout nairobi, mum bassa bassa and focusing on tertiary indications which would be essentially soft targets, it's not like they're going to be hitting an embassy that would be heavily fortified. it would just be a few unarmed
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security guards we haven't known if they did up their security back in december. but it certainly sounds like there wasn't much security definitely not one that any that could withstand the well-armed militaryic group that ambushed the university yesterday morning. >> you wrote an article last week about fears that al shabab may be on the verge of joining up with isis. tell us more about that. you've talked about the threats that are there in the country and around the region. >> well on the top levels the leadership levels that's really been refuted as it were. al shabab leadership we're told from the highest levels is not interested in joining the islamic state. however, we understand that the lower levels of al shabab. the younger sort of young lions as they call themselves enjoy the way the islamic state portrays itself. it's flashy flashy videos
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extremely brutal. the way that it's able to attract foreigners online. those sorts of things are quite interesting to the younger, the younger erer factions of al shabab. there's been a number of skirmishes between certain groups some who believe they should join isis others who believe they should remain loyal to al qaeda. we understand that the elders will make the final call. and the final call at the moment to remain affiliated with al qaeda. >> african union and kenyan forces were said to have felt confident that they were close to eradicating al shabab within kenya. this has to be seen as a major setback. did they underestimate the group's power? >> all of these attacks i believe are underestimating the power of al shabab to strike. almost at will. both at home in somalia and next door here in kenya and in 2010. we saw they struck in campala as
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well. these attacks, extremely militarily precise, they come very well armed. and they're attacking targets where a policeman may have only seven bullets or an unarmed security guards places like malls, people that cannot shoot back. they're aiming for civilians and don't care if they die in the process. this is an incredibly difficult enemy for a military or intelligence service to fight. al shabab has been on the back foot. they've been chased all around somalia. key ports being seized loss of revenue, loss of there are ways to getting foreign fighters, to get in their weapons, but they're regrouping and still launching the cross-border attacks. >> robyn criel. thank you very much. indiana and arkansas acknowledging their laws could have been used to discriminate
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president obama is warning congress don't sabotage what could be an historic nuclear agreement with iran. negotiators have three months to finalize a deal. during that time a lot could happen including congress imposing more sanctions on its own. iran says it would agree to a slew of reductions in output of dangerous materials and equipment a and a lot of supervision in exchange for an easing of economic sanctions. those at the table seem satisfied for now. but prime minister netanyahu blasting the agreement. calling it a threat to the survival of israel. new developments in the wake of the bloody university rampage in kenya. al shabab terrorists singling out and opening fire on christians. the death toll stands at a staggering 147, most of them students. this desperate search now continues for a key suspect. in fact a reward of more than
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$200,000 being issued for information leading to mohammed mohammed's arrest. >> u.s. navy warship standing guard in the waters off yemen. they're keeping an eye out for suspicious activity in the region. including weapon shipments from iran to the houthi rebels they're backing those guys in that region. this as the militants storm the presidential palace in aden thursday, following heavy fighting. yemen's president fled to saudi arabia last month after rebel forces advanced on the city. warmer temperatures finally. however, also the potential for severe storms today in the south and central states. so much for rebirth and renewal. mr. chad myers on this easter weekend. i wore flip flops today. what are you trying to tell me? >> me too. >> really? did you get a pedicure chris? >> he did not, let me tell you that for the record. >> it's been a long winter, chad. >> i understand that even down here. we did have tornadoes on the ground yesterday, we'll have more today. we also have flash flooding going on now in louisville.
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back out to lexington, frankfurt. some spots up to five inches of rain overnight. louisville had three inches of rain in the past three hours, we saw the potential for severe weather. southern missouri northern arkansas. right now things will cool down in the. we have severe weather down to jackson, mississippi, some of those areas could see heavy rainfall as well. louisville had three inches in three hours, lexington, six inches in three hours. more rain where that came from. there will be significant flooding across west virginia kentucky and parts of southern ohio. the water soefr the roadways you don't know how deep it is be careful as you drive, turn around don't drown. the best weather service advice that they can give you. don't drive in flooded waters. >> chad thanks so much. a blessed good friday to you, my friend. we'll see you soon. the big question is did they go far enough.
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arkansas and indiana, the lawmakers revising the religious freedom laws after critics claim they sanctioned discrimination against gays and lesbians. what changed? will critics be satisfied? and why the fight is far from over. ♪ where do you get this kind of confidence? at your ford dealer... that's where! our expert trained technicians... state of the art technology and warranty parts keep your vehicle running right. it's no wonder we sold more than 3.5 million tires last year and durning the big tire event get a $120 mail in rebate on 4 select tires. ♪ apples fall, but the apples of your cheeks don't have to. defy gravity. juvéderm voluma® is the only fda-approved injectable gel
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two new religious freedom laws are now in effect in indiana and arkansas. they're a lot closer now to what they were originally promised to be. the original measures showed potential to discriminate against gays. it took an overwhelming backlash to move lawmakers to revamp them. that said the situation is far from over. we have someone uniquely suited to tell us why. his name? russell moore. president of the southern baptist ethics and religious liberty commission. i wish you a blessed good friday and thank you for joining us on the show. happy good friday to you, chris, thanks for having me.
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>> do you understand why the consensus became that these laws needed to be fixed? >> well i can hardly hear the debate over the sound of thomas jefferson rolling in his grave. because the very fact that religious freedom would be this sort of divisive culture war issue this week is really troubling. it ought to be troubling for all americans, not just for people like me a conservative evangelical. the laws as they were initially articulated in indiana and in arkansas were not discriminatory. and the language that was being used against them was simply a false narrative. now, arkansas i think got it right. the arkansas bill is good. and it protects religious exercise in a helpful way. indiana, on the other hand is a train wreck. the indiana bill is i think even worse than what the situation was without any rfra protection. >> how could it be worse, when under federal law, as it is and under state law as it is in just about every state, actually i
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believe every state, if you go after an exercise of someone's religion you're going to lose in court. it is one of the most protected freedoms that we have. >> that's simply not true. >> how so? >> people lose in court over the exercise of their religion all the time. this happened with a photographer in new mexico who had conscientious objections to photographing a same-sex marriage. lost in court. >> because it wasn't deemed a legitimate exercise of religion. it was deemed she doesn't like gays. >> well no that's not what was happening. what was happening the court said that in balancing these things they felt there was a compelling interest to compel her to do this. >> which was? >> all of that these religious freedom bill does is say we have to balance religious conviction over against government interests. and the government has to prove why they have a reason to pave over someone's conscience in the sake of the public good. >> right, but it's always been
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that way. it's always been put to strict scrutiny. >> no it's not. the reason why we have a religious freedom restoration act at the national level, is because the supreme court eviscerated that balancing test. that's why we needed it and that's why we had a broad consensus from the far left to the far right to say we need to respect religious conviction in this country. >> no the reason we have the federal law from 1993 is because of what we saw in supreme court precedent required by the court, for a law to be passed to protect discreet religious minority practices. like the use of peyote ritually by native americans, even though it would be captured as a narcotic otherwise. that's not what these laws were motivated by or -- >> of course it is. >> if you're right, then why did they change them? >> the laws are motivated to say, the religious conviction isn't up for majority vote and that everybody ought to have a hearing and a day in court. religious freedom laws don't
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give anyone a card in order to win in court. it's simply says that the government has to have a certain standard. >> but that is exactly the criticism that wound up changing the indiana law. the proof is not in the pudding in this case, it's in the humble pie. because the indiana lawmakers had to change the law. why were did they change it? >> the criticism of the indiana law was based upon a willful misrepresentation of the indiana law. >> by? >> in a way that's unprecedented in the american history. it ought to bother progressives as well as conservatives. several years ago when it was really popular for someone on the right to say that we ought to zone mosques out of existence or deport muslims from this country, there were many of us who said -- no. that is we need to stand up and protect the religious consciences, even of muslims with whom i would disagree religiously. now we have the same thing -- >> that wasn't about religious conscience that may have been religious conscious to you in
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rejecting it. that was about a zenophobia. >> that wasn't about -- >> of course it is that's what i'm saying is the state should not come in and use its power to zone mosques out of existence. nor should the state come in and say, we're not going to take into consideration your religious convictions at all when we force you and compel you into commerce. in some way or other. >> mr. moore, my question to you is this -- why hide from the obvious motivations that were behind this law. is it a coincidence, that i'm talking to you, a christian conservative? is it a coincidence that the supporters of these bills, that the signing and thereafter were christian conservatives who have well-known agendas to try to stop and frustrate the lgbt movement? why do you ignore that aspect of this? and say, well it's about muslims and it's about protecting nuns from buying insurance. >> because it is. look at all the cases we've been dealing with. it is about nuns being forced to buy insurance. it is about people who are being
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forced not to wear hijabs in their workplaces, it's about 1,000 situations of unpopular decisions in christians and jews and muslims and others and saying that the government shouldn't force religious conviction out of the way at the point of a sword. that's what this is all about. the reason why you have conservatives standing here without progressives is because progressives who used to be part of this coalition have suddenly disappeared and have become frightened away for standing up for religious freedom. because they believe in they believe in things that they think matter more. >> like equal protection of people under the constitution. >> untrammelled sexual freedom that trumping every other -- >> up trampled sexual freedom? >> yes. >> lgbt people that's who they are, this is not about sexual freedom. this is an identity. >> and people who have religious convictions that could say, i
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don't want to be forced to participate in something that would violate my conscience that's who we are, too. >> you can have your religion but you can't make it will rule for everybody else. that's where you get -- >> my muslim friend may not want may not want to provide pork barbeque for my church potluck as a caterer. i shouldn't have the power of the government to force him to do that. >> you wouldn't have it in that case and you know it. it's about whether or not you want to recognize a gay marriage. you think it's a sin. you don't want to do it. >> that's exactly right. >> but if it's the law of the land you have to. >> that's a decision that he and i ought to make. >> it's no the a pork sandwich when you're trying to deny the fairness under law to an entire class of people. it's not about a pork sandwich. >> nobody is trying to deny fairness under the law. >> we've heard from several sources on this who want to be honest which is rare commodity these days that when and if indiana passes this state law, that allows for same-sex marriage this law would be a way to give you a defense against participating in what certain christians see as a sin.
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that this law would have allowed them to do that. first of all, that's just true legally. if you don't think that's what this law would have allowed people to do you don't understand the law. >> then you don't understand the law, chris. >> how so? >> we've had a religious freedom restoration act in this country for over 20 years. >> it was drafted, intended and materially different than what was in indiana's law. >> it's not materially different from indiana. >> it said people and you extend it to businesses. >> the differences in indiana were substantively exactly the same. >> you moved it to private actions. >> then why would they change it. >> supported by the court. that's why we've had the hobby lobby decision. >> hobby lobby was different, it's a real decision and it's something that should be taken into consideration going forward. nobody says otherwise. if you look at the federal law in this one, it is materially different. >> it is not materially different. >> then you tell me why this isn't materially different? the federal law is about discrete religious minorities. this is empowering a religious minority. that is about people this is about businesses.
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>> the federal law is not singling out particular religious minorities. if the federal law did that, it would be a violation of the first amendment. >> i didn't say it did i said any discrete religious minority. >> talking about religious conscience generally and that the government has to show a reason, a compelling reason and a least-restrictive means for thousand they're achieving their objective over and against genuine religious convictions. >>. those standards would have been in place otherwise. why won't you own something that's not wrong? >> there's not on the basis of the supreme court decision. >> all the supreme court did was, it said that the federal rfra doesn't apply to the states, they said it in 2007. they said you need your own laws. this law in indiana was not a dupe of the federal law. if you don't want to accept that. i'm not here to convince you. but there's very little disagreement on that. that's why they changed the law. why not own the intellectual honesty of saying i don't believe in gay marriage and i don't believe the state should
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have to to tell me i have to participate in it because i'm against it. i have every right to lobby for it. >> i don't think the state ought to force me to participate. >> that's what it's about. it's not about hijabs and pork sandwiches. >> nor do i think the government ought to coerce anyone to participate in something against their conscience. unless the government can show a compelling interest to do so. all that these laws do is to say that the government has a burden to prove that and to show that. and we've had rfra at the federal level for 20 years, it has never gotten anyone out of any discrimination case. >> because it wouldn't apply to what you want it to apply to. that's why indiana drafted the law differently. that's why arkansas drafted it differently. that's why there was this huge backlash. what do you think, everybody just has it wrong? all of these businesses that usually want to not get involved with this a lot of businesses that have conservative sympathies, they want to get into this? sports organizations that have
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enough problems of their own? they want to get into this? you think this is what they wanted? >> i think what we have is a situation in american culture, where the very idea of religious liberty is toxic. >> who says that? >> there is a total misunderstanding of what it takes to be motivated by a religious conscience. >> please tell me where this comes from mr. moore, especially you, because your distinguish yourself and your environment and one, i think very important way -- many christian conservatives believe that not only is gay is a choice but it's like a virus. and you can be degay-fied through therapy. you took a big stand and you said i don't believe in these therapy programs. we shouldn't do this. we misunderstand what homosexuality is about. that was very progressive for you, it was dangerous for you in certain circles. why don't you see the same through-logic in this situation? >> because what we're saying here is that we have legitimate disagreements in american society about sexual morality. those disagreements should not
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be decided at the point of a government mandate. >> yes. the disagreement shouldn't be decided. of course not. this is about dedebate robust always alive in america. >> what you're saying is we can believe secretly in our heart what we believe. but we have to be forced to participate in things that we believe are violations of our conscience. >> when you talk about potential risk. theyed that anybody would want you to participate in their marriage when they know that you hate them for wanting to get married that way. i think is fairly remote. we'll see how the -- >> it happens all the time. >> you believe it openly. >> we have -- >> we have people now who are losing their businesses. >> that's not true. >> because they're saying we don't want to participate in gay marriage. >> as we see more evolution of the law at the state level. as we see what happens with the supreme court in june on this issue. this was a preemptive action to give a back-stop of legal protection in case that happens. think it's as clear as day to people it's as clear to the lawmakers as it is to me, because they changed the laws in
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exactly the way that comports with our understanding of it. that i'm presenting to you right now. and no one says you have to believe it just in your heart. be loud be outspoken, be compelling. say why you think it's wrong. >> as long as the government forces me to participate in things that i believe are immoral. >> the government says it is equal protection for same-sex people to have marriages, same-sex marriage then that's it. this is america. it's always worked like that. these same arguments were used against blacks in the '50s. >> that is ridiculous chris. >> what's redickous? >> these arguments were not used against blacks. >> of course it was. people believed as a matter of conscious. >> the civil rights movement triumphed because it was a moral cause that said that the united states government is not living up to its founding documents and the civil rights movement was right. what's happening right now with a government that is not recognizing genuine pluralism is a government that is moving away from mr. jefferson's america. not towards it. >> you know --
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>> this word "pluralism" is getting used a lot. i think it's important that you bring it up. pluralism means that everybody has a seat at the table, okay? >> that's right. >> it doesn't mean that when the consensus at the table is that some of the seats don't get what they want they get to bow out. and that is not pluralism, okay? that is pejoratianism. i'm asking for fairness under law, under the constitution of the united states and the 14th amendment of equal protection. if the supreme court finds that same-sex marriage is equally protected. >> states against protecting religious liberty in order to say that the majority view wins. >> your religion cannot be the rule for everyone in america. >> and the dissenters ought to be protected. i'm a christian, i believe to rendering unto caesar that which belongs to caesar but caesar does not own our consciences. >> jesus was talking about taxes when he said that not respecting humanity. >> you think that jesus is not
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talking about what it means to be created in the image of god and the conscious that is answerable to god? >> look you're the theologian but here's yesterday, maundy thursday the maunda means command, love one another like i have loved you. he did not qualify it he did not provide an exception to that. he's going to today be commemorated for sacrificing himself on a cross for the forgiveness of all sins of all people. certainly at this time in the religious calendar for you not to be as a preacher embracing everyone and sending that message, is -- very very unusual to even my simple christian mind. and i don't understand how you separate the two messages. i really don't. >> the idea that what jesus meant is that we ought to have a government that forces mennonite pacifists to participate in military celebrations is very far from anyone's understanding of what's happening on maundy thursday or good friday.
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>> it's good to have robust debate on this and i appreciate you being here. there will be more need for this going forward. i look forward to having you back on the show and a good easter to you, sir. >> happy easter to you, chris, thanks. we're engaging in this issue because it matters to the cultural development in this country. you see the sides laying out in this debate. mr. moore's position i tested it? what do you think. tweet me or go to there's a lot of news today, so let's get to it. framework for a history-making nuclear pact with iran now in place. >> if iran cheats the world will know it. >> i'm very concerned about what is not in this agreement. >> some of our senators in congress will need to step back take a deep breath. >> they're regrouping and of course still launching the cross-border attacks. >> i take this opportunity to urge kenyans to stay calm. as we resolve this matter. two women in new york charged with planning an isis-inspired bomb plot. >> sthees a very friendly woman. they're very lovely people.
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rescued after 66 days stranded at sea in a disabled boat. >> crying and sad that dead and i wasn't dead. >> announcer: this is "new day," with chris cuomo, alisyn camerota and michaela pereira. >> good morning, and welcome back to your "new day." alisyn camerota has the day off. but chris and i are here handling the news for you today on this good friday. the framework for a landmark nuclear deal with iranians is now in place. president obama hailing it as historic but it is only a blueprint. three more months of challenging negotiations lie ahead to finalize it. >> now comes the big sell right? the president says this is a good deal. there's safe guards in place to catch the iranianes if they cheat. he's warning members of congress not to mess with it there are other ideas afoot in this discussion. we'll cover it from every angle. start with cnn global affairs correspondent elise labott live
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in switzerland. it's a little bit of a surprise the detail presented in this framework. a lot of us didn't see it coming. >> that's right, chris, we've been talking all week we thought it was going to be a general statement, a broad political framework that had some curbs on iran nuclear program, but left all the hard issues to later. so my colleagues and i following this stuff very closely, very surprised, let's talk about some of the key elements of the deal. it reduces iran's centrifuges, which enrich uranium by about two-thirds they had about 19,500. now they're going to have about 6,000. it's going to reduce its enriched uranium stockpile which is significant. those things will extend what they call the breakout time that iran would have enough fissile material to build a nuclear weapon from two-thirds two months that it is now to about a year. which is the goal that the administration had. and that in exchange iran gets to lift sanctions in phases.
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it will get a lot of economic benefit. but first then the u.n. security council phases sanctions will be lifted out in phases. i sat down with secretary of state john kerry yesterday. because you know the elephant in the room in these talks was really congress. they've been threatening sanctions. now there's legislation pending in congress which has almost a veto-proof majority which would give them a vote a say on whether the deal could go through. i asked him whether congress could kill this deal. take a listen. >> that would be very irresponsible to make politics trump facts and science. and the realities of what is possible here. it would be particularly irresponsible to do it when you have six nations, actually iran too, but the p5+1 permanent members of the security council, plus germany. you know china, and russia which don't have always everyday common interests with us in
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everything. but they are absolutely dedicated to the enforcement of this. >> the hard work begins negotiators will take a little bit of rest possibly for the holiday. and then come back to renegotiate the fuller comprehensive agreement. due at the end of june. that's going to be very difficult to put all of those technical details on the broad strokes they agreed to yesterday. michaela? >> elise, live in jerusalem. let's turn to here in the united states on the challenge for president obama, selling that agreement to congress. and getting it across the finish line. let's bring in cnn national correspondent sunlen serfaty live at the white house. this may be the heavy lifting for the president. >> absolutely. it is going to be a heavy lift for the white house, michaela. congress is going to challenge president obama on this. there's already a series of defiant bills lined up ready and waiting on capitol hill for the president. republicans have said that this deal has made too many concessions to iran.
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and democrats have their responses basically tepid at best here. congress is back in two weeks from easter recess. it is then when republican senator bob corker he has said he will move that week on a bill this is a bill that has already elicited a veto threat from the white house. and it would basically in essence, if it gets a veto-proof majority give congress the ability to approve or reject this deal. now the white house has argued that this bill would undercut their ability at the negotiating table, key is looking for senate democrats here will they defy the house white house on this. president obama had a stern warning for congress. >> if congress kills this deal not based on expert analysis and without offering any reasonable alternative, then it's the united states that will be blamed for the failure of diplomacy. international unity will collapse. and the path to conflict will
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widen. >> the wlous is going to be very -- white house is going to be very aggressive on this. reaching out to key senate democrats who have not said one way or the other where they will come down on the bill. the white house notes they need these senate democrats to remain on their side in this. chris, they have a lot of convincing to do. >> absolutely. not just at home abroad as well. u.s. major ally in the region israel they say they do not share president obama's assertion that this is a good deal. prime minister netanyahu says the framework agreement threatens his country's very survival. cnn's oren lieberman is live in jerusalem. what's the stronger reaction today? >> well we expect another statement from benjamin netanyahu shortly if that continues with what we've heard from him lately it will be some very very strong words against this deal. in fact i think his latest statement was perhaps the strongest rhetoric we heard so far. after the deal came out, netanyahu's government released a statement, netanyahu himself released a statement saying that this deal increases the risk of quote a horrific war.
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horrific war, some very very strong rhetoric coming from netanyahu. he sees this deal as a bad deal for a number of reasons. both for what's in the deal and not in the deal. netanyahu hat criticized the fact that the deal doesn't take apart iran's nuclear infrastructure. it limits it changes it but that's not what netanyahu wanted to see. his other big criticism was that the lifting of sanctions is not tied to iran pulling back its aggression in the region. that is what netanyahu has seen as the biggest threat to the security of israel and the security of the stability of the region. those are netanyahu's big criticisms here he's in a cabinet meeting right now. he called this emergency cabinet meeting this morning or late last night. we expect him to put out a statement shortly. so we'll have the statement for you. i think we have a good sense of what he's going to say. he's going to criticize the deal. the question is does his language get even stronger and perhaps this week we got a hint of his strategy moving forward. he met with house speaker john bain anywhere israel. he met with senator mitch mcconnell in israel. congressional republicans who have criticized this deal.
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if they work with netanyahu. they could pose a big stumbling block to president obama moving forward. chris certainly also worth noting that the intelligence minister said the military option is still on the table here. >> all right. the threat is very real. thank you for the download. oren. no question the prime minister has sway in congress. what is the reaction in congress? what is the likely outcome here in terms of their action? joining us now, senator angus king an independent from maine. thank you for the "new day" dedication joining us on your way home and a blessed good friday to you, sir. >> thank you, chris, nice to be with you. >> so the big concern is, at least for the president, that congress will go its own way here. and put out sanctions against iran. in lieu of the details that we now have for the framework. what do you think the likely outcome is from congress? >> i think bob corker as you mentioned, is going to be moving forward probably right after the recess. there are a number of people from the democratic caucus including myself who have
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signed on to that bill. but i think our support is conditional upon a demonstration that this decision can be handled responsibly and without becoming simply another exercise to try to partisan exercise to try to embarrass the president. this is just too important for that. but the bill the corker bill wouldn't apply, it would only apply to the u.s. sanctions, and it wouldn't apply obviously until there was a final deal. as you pointed out this morning. nothing signed. what we have is a detailed framework. a lot more detail than i think anybody expected. but the idea would be it would require 60 votes. there are some safeguards built in. but the underlying question is the one that you're going to be examining today. and in future days. that is whether the republicans in congress can approach this on the facts and the merits weighing the alternatives and not just saying -- if it's obama's idea we're against it.
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it turns out if it's moving in that direction, chris, i'm out. i'm not going to support something that's simply going to be a partisan cudgel. >> you do have objective basis for pushback on this framework. the "washington post" has an op-ed out saying that the parameters fall well short of the goals originally set by the administration. is this framework even if achieves all that it sets out, not enough? >> well the heart of it to me is verification. and that's really whether or not we can verify what's going on in there. there are, think a lot of people were surprise. i was surprised yesterday at the length to which for example, reducing 10,000 down to 10,000 kilograms down to 300, shipping spent fuel out of the country, two two-thirds reduction in centrifuge. all of those things are meaningless unless there's powerful strong intrusive
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investigation and verification. if that's the case and that's where the details are going to come you know obviously that's going to be the real discussion. that takes place over the next several months both here in this country, around the world, and iran and particularly between the negotiators. but if if look chris, you got to look at the alternatives. if as you're interviewing people today and they're telling you why it's such a bad deal. ask them what their alternative is. a lot of people think this is just us and iran. it isn't. it's china, it's russia they're involved in these discussions, the entire security council of the united nations. and we don't have the unilateral power to keep the sanctions going if those countries decided we blew up the negotiations unnecessarily. that's option one is we could lose all international support for the sanctions which means, they're ineffective. or the other alternative, is
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war, is bombing, and most people estimate that a thorough bombing campaign would set their project, their nuclear weapons project back between two and three years. so where are we then where they've you know they're back two or three years from now where they are and you think they're going do negotiate then if we bomb them? this is pretty serious stuff. the question is, not is this a great deal. but is this a better deal than what the alternatives are. and so far, i'm impressed that the deal is more detailed more intrusive, has more limitations, longer limitations, than i anticipated. i'm not ready to sign on and say it's terrific. but i think it's a really positive step forward. and i sure don't want to see it derailed just because you know people want to embarrass the president or make some kind of partisan points. that would be that would be
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tragic. >> just a quick final thought. you know the apolitical criticism would be yes, all these goals and aims that you lay out are probably beneficial and better than the alternative, if it's war. but what do you give to get them? and in what you give do you wind up giving up too much that doesn't give you the leverage going forward to enforce the deal? >> well of course that's a really good point. but as i read the facts, and the briefing i got yesterday from the white house, the sanctions don't go away until iran complies. and then there's, there are provisions for what's called snap-back. which means there's a violation, the sanctions come right back in. and i think that's very important. one other point that was made in the prior report. the israelis are now moving the goal posts and saying we've got to get iran to quit misbehaving in the region. that wasn't the focus of these negotiations. and frankly, that's a very unrealistic goal. it would be a nice goal it would be terrific if we could achieve that. but let's deal with one issue at
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a time. and the real issue is a nuclear armed iran. they're still going to be troublesome in the region. they're still going to be a threat. they're still going to be an enemy of ours. but if we can get the nuclear arms off the table. that's a big deal. >> senator king thank you very much. enjoy your vacation have a good easter. >> thank you, chris. all right. this morning the search intensifying for a key suspect behind the bloody university rampage at university in kenya. the death toll stands now at a staggering 147 people. mostly students. we're also learning that al shabab terrorist the singled out christians during that massacre. cnn's christian purefoy has the latest at garissa university college in kenya with the latest. >> michaela at 5:00 a.m. yesterday morning, al shabab terrorists drove down this road killed two policemen standing guard at that gate and went into the university with over 800 students waking up thinking it's
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just another normal day. now michaela we're standing here just on the other side of the fence of that university which is now in lockdown. we've seen military trucks ambulances all sorts of security forces coming by. but to be honest it really is even here a sense of detachment about the mass murder and horror that must have gone on behind those gates. here's what we know so far. this morning, it's been just over 24 hours. [ screaming ] >> since al shabab gunmen terrorized this university in kenya. now with at least 147 dead and nearly 600 evacuated, the community of garissa in complete agony. the mag kerr beginning just before dawn on thursday. the terrorists descending on early morning prayers, reportedly separating muslims from christians. and killing the christians or
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taking them hostage. >> they started jumping up and down running foyer their lives. but it's unfortunate that where they are going to is where the gunshots were coming from. >> the gunmen then going dormitory to dormitory. before kenyan forces eventually corner them. the standoff lasting for hours, finally, at around 9:00 p.m. official the announced the end of the operation. garissa university college, some 90 miles west of the somali border. a region caught up in the ongoing battle with the somali-based terror group al shabab. >> kenya has been the primary driving force behind operations against al shabab in the region. >> the very same islamist extremists responsible for the 2013 westgate mall massacre in nairobi, kenya. according to reports, students had heard warning of an impending attack on their campus just this past week.
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the kenyan government now issuing a bounty of more than $200,000 for this man, muhammed muhammed, wanted in connection with the campus attack. though officials say kenyan forces killed the four terrorists responsible, nearly 17-hour siege, still too fresh. now al shabab's stronghold somalia, is about four hours' drive over a bad road at 190 kilometers that way. it really is the badlands of northern kenya, a long porous border with somalia. very difficult to stop al shabab hitting soft targets like this. today, it's about kenya now beginning to come to terms with what happened behind those gates. back to you. >> all right, thank you very much for the reporting. we're still going to get information out of that. we'll check back with him in a little bit. breaking news as well in the flight 9525 investigation. investigators have a first look at what was on the plane's data recorder. that data they say proves
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co-pilot andreas lubitz put the plane into a dive and even accelerated on the way down. meanwhile, his tablet device was loaded with searches for suicide methods, cockpit doors and cockpit door security. lawmakers in indiana and in arkansas swiftly approving fixes that aim to remove the risk of religious freedom laws to avoid discrimination. protection as a class under state law. indiana added to its existing bill arkansas passed a narrower version of it its original bill which is now virtually identical to the federal religious freedom and restoration act. a good friday miracle to tell you about. this sailor adrift at sea for wait for it 66 days. now alive and well. cnn's martin savidge is live in norfolk, virginia with details. martin you want to shake your head and say, i don't buy it he looks too good. but what's the facts on the ground? >> louis jordan has an amazing
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story to tell. and he begins it by saying that back at the end of january, he went out from south carolina just to catch a couple of fish. he said. thought he would be gone a couple of hours. two months later he's rescued at sea. and his father admitted to us last night that he had thought his son was dead. >> an emotional reunion. father and son together for the first time in months. 37-year-old louis jordan was lost at sea for 66 days. his sailboat capsized leaving him drifting far from shore. >> there comes a time when you wonder if they could still be out there. surviving. >> louis speaking out for the first time reerks counting how he managed to survive. catching fish with his bare hands and eating it raw. and trapping rainwater. >> i was running out of water. drinking a pint a day for very long time. rationing that water, almost out.
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almost out. finally god answered my prayer. before i ran out of water. >> reported missing on january 29th jordan set out for a fishing trip. when the coast guard says his sailboat's mast broke and the electronics gear was damaged during rough weather. but on thursday after more than two months at sea, with a broken shoulder his fortunes changed. a german-flagged vessel rescued jordan about 200 miles east of north carolina's cape hatteras. he was medivaced to a virginia hospital. walked inside on his own two feet. here he's the first phone call with his father. >> how are you feeling? >> i'm doing great now. i couldn't -- i couldn't fix it i couldn't sail back with my boat i'm so sorry, such a big loss. >> hey, louis, you're fine son, i'm so glad that you're alive. we prayed and prayed and we hoped that you were still alive. >> i was praying for you, i was afraid that you guys were crying
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and sad that i was dead and i wasn't dead. >> i was utterly grateful and thankful to the people who rescued me. and i was grateful to god that my parents were not going to be worried about me. >> an agonizing ordeal for jordan's family coming to a close. >> let's have a hug. i love this man. love him with all my heart. >> and chris, to your point, he does look to be in incredible medical condition, given the 66 days. that he was at sea. the story is still being investigated by authorities. there's no question that he was reported missing by his family. so how long he was gone is really not a doubt here. it is the conditions under which he actually had to survive. but no doubt he's also very lucky, because of the crew that spotted him at sea, the coast guard that brought him to shore and maybe the vessel he was on
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himself. which appropriately was named -- "angel." chris and michaela. >> 66 days would put him back into some of the throes of winter. >> hard to believe. but until we know otherwise, we got to go with what he says. >> what a story, martin thank you for bringing it to us. all right the arrest of two new york women in an isis-inspired bomb plot sparking all sorts of new concern about home-grown terror is enough being done to kpat it? proemg says the iran deal is good. israel says no it isn't. it could compromise their very survival. is there a middle ground here? israel's chief government spokesman joins us awe head with his concerns. [car engine] [car engine] ♪ introducing the first-ever 306-horsepower
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isis propaganda. and another u.s. citizen is charged with supporting terrorists who wanted to kill americans abroad. let's bring in cnn counterterrorism analyst and former c.i.a. counterterrorism analyst official phillip mudd and center for the american democracies daveed gartenstein-ross. in brooklyn the two women under arrest. noelle velentzas and asia siddiqui. does this present a new surge in home-grown terror we need to be concerned about? >> it does in the sense we can see a spike of about 30 cases in the past 18 months it's unprecedented. if you go back to the 2009-2011 period you also had a similar surge in home-grown terrorism in the united states which subsequently subsided. what they've concerned about is i think social immediate yantd way that isis has come to master social media is changing radicalization patterns in a worse way.
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in the terrorism tends to be a group thing. but when you, the reason why is it takes a group to form terrorist beliefs. that's one over-arching trend. in terms of home-grown terrorism there's a surge. it won't last forever but we can see it at the moment. >> let's hope it doesn't. >> phillip, interesting to see here in this particular plot they weren't targeting civilians, large groups of civilians gathered. they were specifically it sounds like plotting to target police military outposts et cetera does that surprise you? >> it does. this is a shift we've sceneriesly. police army military these are seen as legitimate targets more than civilians. people entering this sort of level of extremism. when people decide do commit an act of violence civilians are harder pitch for al qaeda. remember we had a hatchet-bearing man in new york city trying to go after police. in ottawa we had an attack on the parliament building not on what al qaeda would refer to as innocent civilians.
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so this is an effort to get a target set, that's a little bit from their perspective, a little bit more legitimate than just a an innocent civilian. >> where do they stand as far as you're concerned, in terms of a threat within the organization these two? >> chump change. >> chump change. >> chump change. there's two sides to this coin. there's the good side of this. if you look at the criminal complaint and i've read it these are no-talent clowns they made every mistake you could make. i feel like i should run a seminar for terrorists on how not to get into the claws of american security service. the problem with this and the reason people like me cringe is this is a volume business as daveed said there's so many of these people they can be low-talent but if you get hundreds of them and you miss two of them you got to do 100%. these are not serious players, but you got to worry when you get hundreds of them. >> when this goes to press later, his words not mine on the
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clown phenomenon. we go from bit players, daveed let's talk about the situation in texas it sounds like they netted a top al qaeda operative. a texas native he is going to be a valuable resource for intelligence will he not? >> that's something which i'm a little bit more skeptical of unfortunately. the reason being that look he's in criminal court. and once someone gets mirandaized, everyone knows you stop talking. this is one situation where once you get someone into criminal court, they stop being a valuable resource unless a plea deal can be struck whereby he gives up valuable information for a lighter sentence. >> boy this is a lottery ticket for the intelligence folks, i would die to hear this guy talk. the problem is as soon as he lawyers up you know what that lawyer is going to say. stop talking. there's another psychological piece to this. he's been gone since 2007 in the midst of al qaeda. when you become ideologically turned for that long a period of
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time the likelihood that you're going to come back and say wow, i made a huge mistake, is lower. that's chance he's just sitting there saying i joined the right group. don't talk to me, i believe in what i joined. >> he's not a viable source there for information. but daveed,ky sleep better at night knowing he's off the streets. >> absolutely. i mean i think we can be glad about that. there's an interesting series of events with him being basically sent back to texas after, being apprehended in pakistan. there's some cooperation that was taking place there. he has valuable intelligence. and one other thing i would point out is that the u.s. has gotten quite a bit of valuable intelligence within the past few months. net it's helped to loop in other big fish in the al qaeda chain. >> gentlemen, we appreciate you joining us on this good friday thank you for your intelligence and your colorful language as always. chris, i'll send it over to you. >> as an easter gift to mudd. he does not want to start a program for terrorists to figure
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out how to avoid the authorities. he was just using that as a demonstration of their own inept ineptitude. >> i think that's a safe bet. if i offered that impression i'm not taking money from terrorist groups that's a federal violation. >> mr. mudd has a book coming out, we'll tell you about it next week. an easter tease. when we come back israel's prime minister says a nuclear deal with iran isn't just a bad deal. it threatens his nation's very existence. so what is he going to do about it? his spokesman joins us next. your lifestyle in retirement? i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last. i try not to worry but you worry. what happens when your paychecks stop? because everyone has retirement questions. ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. to get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today.
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president obama has achieved what some consider an historic framework for a nuclear deal with iran. but many don't see it that way. few more important than israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. he says the deal threatens israel's very survival.
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so what is israel going to do about it? israeli government spokesman mark regev joins us now. thank you for joining us as always. why is this a bad deal? >> my pleasure. it's a bad deal because did allows iran to retain an expansive nuclear infrastructure it allows iran to continue with thousands of centrifuges. to continue to enrich to continue with research and development on a new generation of more efficient centrifuges. the deal proposed doesn't even call on the iranians to take apart even one of their nuclear installations, so you have this massive iranian nuclear infrastructure and this in the hands of a regime that almost on a daily basis says my country should be destroyed. >> when you look -- >> this is a problem. >> when you look from a scale perspective, i'll give you the high points of what the nuclear
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program would look like with and without the deal. you have 19,000 some say even more centrifuges. down to 6,000, no inspections right now. you'd have inspections. you'd still have sanctions in place. and you'd have what they're calling the break-out time. which without a deal would be time to two to three months without a deal that would be their breakout time. with the deal you have one year. and obviously, the give is no sanctions with a deal and you'd have sanctions without a deal. so you are reducing things why isn't that of any value? >> we believe it's possible to get a much better deal. we see what's on the table now as a step in the wrong direction. as very dangerous. because you're giving international legitimacy to ultimately an iranian nuclear program whose goal is sole goal is to have a nuclear weapon. and there shouldn't be that legitimacy. on the contrary. we believe the international community should hold out until
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you get a better deal that actually substantially dismantles the iranian nuclear program and commits iran to a new set of behavior. if iran wants to be treated as a normal country, it has to be to start acting like a normal country. they shouldn't be exporting their aggression throughout the region. you know what they're doing in iraq and in syria and in lebanon and now today in yemen as well. you know what -- >> say you you have to separate the nukes and the outlining foreign activity. you have to start somewhere and the question becomes how do you get a better deal than right now? what could you do to iran that you haven't already done at least for the united states 35 years, having them as an off the sized entity. >> the truth is in the only in the last two or three years that the united states have ratcheted up sanctions and the iranians have been feeling the pressure. here we have to give a word of thanks to the administration in congress for putting those very tough sanctions in place.
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now we think those sanctions should stay in place. until the iranians actually take substantive steps to dismantle their nuclear program. ultimately if you take that away what motivation do the iranians have for making real concessions? >> if this deal goes forward as it is there is a whisper that israel might consider a unilateral attack against iran because of its own properties of self-defense. is there a real chance of that? >> let's be clear. just this week once again the iranian leadership this time a top general, reiterated that he actually said that israel's destruction is nonnegotiable. in other words, it's something the iranians are willing to talk about anything but destroying israel they can't discuss that. that's part of their very being. so obviously nuclear weapons, nuclear potential in the hands
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of such a regime, is for us a scenario that we don't, we don't want to go there. you have to know chris, it's not just israel's problem. our arab neighbors, those large sunni moderate countries in the region they support our position on this issue. and i'd urge you to remember when arabs and israelis agree, as we do on iran it doesn't happen every day of the week. when we agree, i would urge people to pay attention. i would urge you to remember chris, that iran is building intercontinental ballistic missiles. those missiles are not for us they've got missiles that can hit tel aviv and jerusalem. those missiles are to hit targets well beyond the horizon and that includes north america. >> so the idea of military action in response to this deal isn't just saber-rattling. in a quick statement you're saying that's a real option on the table? >> we would of course like to see a deal that actually significantly dismantles the iranian nuclear program.
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we'd like to see that done diplomatically. >> okay. >> but of course israel is here under direct threat. it's the responsibility of every democratic government in my prime minister was just re-elected with a mandate. we have to protect ourself. >> mr. regev, thank you for giving us the perspective of israel. pleasure having you on the show. new evidence from the germanwings flight data recorder that's been found confirms that the crash was indeed deliberate. we may never know why, but journalists from a german publication who spoke with the pilot's friend may give us some insight, next.
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new this morning, investigators say that data from flight 9525's data recorder confirms that the co-pilot deliberately crashed the plane. this as investigators are calling the crash premeditated murder. after discovering the co-pilot andreas lubitz had done internet searches about suicide and about cockpit doors. jillian reich eld is editor in
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chief of "bild." this is a big development. the flight data recorder now showing that this was deliberate. the internet searches proving this was premeditated murder. this is a big, big development. >> yes, good morning, michaela. what we're learning this very moment coming out of the investigation in france is the second black box seems to confirm that andreas lubitz deliberately started the descent of the plane. initiated it and increased the speed of the plane to crash it into the mountain. that is coming out of the investigation from the prosecutor in france right now. what we are learning. and you know yesterday we were told by the german investigator that he had been looking for ways of suicide on the internet. in the past days and weeks. that was taken from his tablet computer. to us that kind of indicates that maybe his plan to crash the
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plane evolved, that he was looking for more so to say traditional ways of suicide in the beginning. and then went on you know moved on to that plan and started looking up ways to block the cockpit door. looking up the locking mechanism. the security mechanisms of the cockpit door. so it seems like a plan that evolved out of a a so to say normal suicide plan into what it then became. >> it evolved. let's talk about this conversation you had with a friend of the co-pilot. what did this person tell you about this man? >> it was actually our reporters speaking to several friends of his. one of them pretty close to him. and what is interesting there is that as of now, pretty much everyone knew about his mental condition. knew that he was seeking
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treatment. very much seems that his family knew that he was on heavy medication. and you know the question coming out of that is to us did he conceal to friends and family that he was still you know on active duty? that he was still in the cockpit? or did he you know did everyone know that he was flying? although he was in a very bad mental place and receiving heavy medication? we have learned from the investigation, from documents that are part of the investigation, that he was on a combination of heavy antidepressant that increases the risk of suicide. has been on that for weeks. and that at the same time on a sleeping medication that is also used to treat panic attacks. doctors that we have consulted tell us this combination of medication wouldn't even allow you to drive a car, not talking about flying a plane. >> let me ask you, if they had these concerns the people that knew this man, did they ever
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make them aware, the airline aware? did they ever speak of their concern leading up to or right after? why are we only hearing about this now? well that isle big question everyone is asking right now. we know from records that andreas lubitz was concealing to the doctors just days before he crashed the plane, that he was on active duty. he was telling them the doctors, he consulted, that he was on sick leave, he was not flying, but he wants to get back in the cockpit. possibly because he was afraid that someone would report him. he was seeking treatment while concealing that he was still flying. you know we're very certain that his friends and family knew about his condition. but as of now, it seems more likely that he tried as much as possible to conceal also from them that he was flying. because it's very hard to imagine that they knew about the condition, you know his family
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was actively taking him to doctors. you know it's very hard to imagine that they were taking him to doctors and at the same time allowing him to fly commercial airliner. >> it is shocking shocking developments that you, "bild" online is reporting. this is not cnn's coverage. julian richeichelt, thank you so much. tomorrow is the final vote can wisconsin end kentucky's historic season? what about michigan state versus the dukies? we've got a preview.
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♪ ♪ >> get your hoops on. >> right. >> this week is as big as college basketball gets. it was almost kind of -- almost wasn't. >> that's true. >> because of the controversial indiana religious freedom law. it's now xs and o boys. >> cats cats cats. >> giving away the bias. >> andy scholes, this morning's
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bleachers report. this may be the best pairings we've seen in recent history. true or true? >> very true chris. absolutely. i can't wait for this these match-ups tomorrow night. it's looking like it's going to be one of the best final fours we've seen in a long time. 's been kind of over shadowed this week by the religious freedom law. everyone was waiting to see how the teams in the ncaa would react to what's been going on here in indiana. the ncaa their headquarters are right down the street from where i'm standing here in downtown indianapolis. they were the first to speak out against the religious freedom law. he says they aren't happy that this whole debate has been overshadowing this week's festivities. he said the bill is more important than a basketball tournament. >> so we came out fairly early in this process and we were hopeful that that could instigate some change and while we don't want to you know,
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overplay the roam that werole that we had in it we were happy that they decided to respond i think appropriately. >> now all the head coaches in the final four released a joint statement earlier this week about the religious freedom law. rachel nichols sat down with all of them to discuss the role sports has played in this controversy. you can catch that on all access. that's going to be tomorrow 2:30 eastern right here on cnn. of course the final four game tipoff tomorrow night at 6:00 eastern on our sister network, tbs. michigan state taking on duke. that should be an amazing game. that will be followed by undefeated kentucky taking on wisconsin in a rematch in last year's final four. everyone's waiting to see if kentucky can do this. go 40-0.
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no one wants to hear it. they will be getting it tomorrow night. >> my goodness. thank you very much. we'll be watching. >> we know many many many details still need to be ironed out. we have a framework for an iran nuke deal. what's in it what happens if iran does not comply. it tastes better when you grow it. it tastes even better when you share it. it's not hard, it's doable. it's growable. get going with gro-ables. miracle-gro. life starts here. shopping online... as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers carpenters and even piano tuners... were just as simple?
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if congress kills this deal it will be the united states that will be blamed for the failure of diplomacy. >> we say this deal is a move in the wrong direction. >> a massive search is on for a key suspect in thursday's horrifying massacre. >> slaughter on a university campus that apparently targeted christians. >> the data recorder shows andreas lubitz changed the auto pilot settings. >> he searched the internet for cockpit door security. >> this is premeditated murder. >> it's just a different kind of sin to me and i just don't believe in it. >> the very idea of religious liberty is toxic. >> protecting religious freedom doesn't mean protecting
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discrimination. this is "new day" with chris cuomo, alisyn camerota and michaela pereira. good morning. welcome back to "new day." it's friday april 3rd. 8:00 in the east. alisyn camerota but mich and i are here. there is history for a history making pack. world leaders have until the end of june to make these final arrangements stick. >> president obama wasted no time selling the agreement calling it a good deal but he still has congress to contend with warning them not to do anything to compromise what he deems a historic deal in the making. cnn is covering this from every angle starting with global affairs correspondent elise elise labott. she's joining us from switzerland. elise. >> reporter: well michaela. it's been a marathon a real roller coaster this past week. they do have this broad framework deal which in essence puts a lot of curves on the deal.
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let's talk about some of the key points of this deal. it reduces iran's centrifuges by about 2/3 to 6,000. it has about 19,500 right now. it also reduces its enriched uranium stockpile. two of those together are significant because that extends what they call the breakout time by which iran has enough fissile material to produce a nuclear weapon. right now it's about two months. they want that to last a year. in exchange iran gets all of its sanctions lifted in phases. it will start with those economic sanctions and then it will go to u.n. security sanctions as iran complies with the deal. as you said that full comprehensive deal is due at the end of june. now negotiators have to start putting the details on those broad strokes. i asked secretary kerry -- secretary of state john kerry yesterday what would happen if iran tried to renegotiate some of those terms of the deal.
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take a listen. >> then they don't get an agreement. i mean look we're very clear about where we are. >> if they try to renegotiate, you'll end? you won't give them an agreement? >> we've agreed and we're not going to renegotiate things. we've been very clear about that. >> and we also talked about the ups and downs of the negotiations. it's been an 18-month ride. he spent more time with any foreign minister. the iranian foreign minister than any foreign minister. certainly more than any u.s. official in 30 years has spent with an official from iran. it was contentious at times, it was emotional at times but he's very happy with the deal at hand. michaela. >> very much our thanks to you, elise. once a framework has been reached with iran president obama came out with warnings to congress. don't do anything to sabotage this. let's turn to sunday landlan serfaty.
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>> there's a series of defiant bills lined up to go on capitol hill. republicans say there are too many concessions for iran on the hill. there are many democrats on the hill that are very skeptical. congress comes back from a two-week recess in the middle of april. it is then when republican senator bob corker he says he will move forward with his bill. this is a bill that has already elicited a white house veto threat from the administration. the bill would basically if they get a veto proof majority give congress the approval the ability to approve or reject a deal in the end. now the white house has said that this will be disruptive to negotiations and they're really targeting senate democrats who might be skeptical but might be able to be convinced to stay on their side of this. here's president obama's warning to congress.
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>> if congress kills this deal not based on expert analysis and without offering any reasonable alternative, then it's the united states that will be blamed for the failure of diplomacy. international unity will collapse and the path to conflict will widen. >> the white house is going to be have i very aggressive on this reaching out to congress. they have promised briefings. they've promised high level engagement from members of the administration. they are targeting this specific group of skeptical senate democrats. they need to remain on their side but it is certainly going to be a large convincing job the white house has. >> sunlen thanks. let's bring in tony blinken. he's the deputy secretary of state and have him make the case. thank you for taking the opportunity. i am the disgruntled republicans, some democrats and your ally israel and i want you to -- i want to test your perspective on what their take is here. the first main one is you guys
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should have come to us sooner in congress about this because you went your own path we don't like the path. you went too far down that path and now we're going to put in our own sanctions because sanctions are the key. what is your punch back. >> so chris, first of all, this deal if it is finalized, pushes far into the future iran's pathways to a bomb. it cuts them off far into the future. it's the most effective thing we can do. to date we've almost had 250 briefings, meetings hearings phone calls with members of congress and now we have the details. the president has instructed us to move out aggressively to work with congress in the weeks ahead to show them all of the details, to give them a chance to digest the details and then to move forward with congress. >> i believe my friend israel who says we cannot accept a deal that is not an if deal it's a when deal. you're just pulling out how long it will take them to get a weapon. they don't have to dismantle any of their nuclear facilities. they'll still have plenty.
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and we know that all they want to do is find a way to come up with a weapon and you're going to allow them to do that. >> actually chris, it's just the opposite. all of the critical pathways to a bomb are blocked and put off far, far into the future and, indeed many of the restrictions will last 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, some of them in perpetuity indefinitely. and the other thing that's so critical is this. if you don't like this deal and it's a very strong and good deal but if you don't like it that's fine but you have an obligation to say what is the alternative and how would you achieve it. this is the best achievable deal that we can get to deal with the iranian nuclear problem. >> my better deal is squeeze them. more sanctions. we've only been doing real sanctions for a few years. let's get the p5 plus 1 and really squeeze them and allow them to dismantle the whole thing. they don't need nuclear power. they're an oil rich reserve country. >> so our partners, the
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international community, they all have a say in this. the deal we have with them is we would put the sanctions on get iran to the table and get a good deal. that's exactly wa we havehat we've done. if we try to sanction iran into total capitulations. our partners will walk away iran will get all of the benefits of having trade and money from the international community and it will bear none of the burden of having to actually stop its program. that's the choice. >> leaders lead. the u.s. has to go first. the others will follow and you can't do a deal when they won't even discuss their feelings about the existence of israel. they say that's nonnegotiable. how can you do a deal with them when your biggest ally in the region israel is the target of their greatest hatred. >> actually this makes more israel more secure. it makes us more secure. it makes our partners in the region more secure. if there's no deal tomorrow iran could rush to a nuclear weapon. all of the centrifuges it was spinning will start spinning again. they are stay in place.
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this is a deal that makes us more secure israel more secure. >> they are duping you because they're using this nuclear negotiation as a distraction allowing them to run rough shod over the rest of the world. look at yemen, look at iraq look at what they're doing in syria and obviously their plans for israel. you're not addressing that. you're telling them it's okay as long as they do this kind of deal with you about nukes. >> absolutely not. we're addressing all of those problems very very vigorously. all of the sanctions that go to their destabilizing activities their support for terrorism, their human rights problems those remain in place. we'll be working very closely with our partners in the gulf. you heard the president say he's going to bring all of the leaders to washington to camp david for a summit to look at how we can increase the efforts we're making to stop iran's malicious activities. even as we do this deal we are standing strong and we are standing firm against everything
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else that they're doing. >> senator -- >> imagine this if they had a bomb imagine how much more embolden they would be and how much more difficult it would be to deal with them in these areas. this will make us more effective in dealing with the problems they pose. >> senator corker says he'll move forward with the bill. what do you think your chances are of convincing him and some democrats, mostly republican coalition that they put together of resistance on this? >> i had a great conversation with senator corker yesterday. he put out a very thoughtful statement. we'll be going over it with members in congress. what we need is time and space to bring this to conclusion to put in place the final details. it's a complicated process dotting all the is and crossing the ts between now and june 30th. if we have the time and space we'll be working with congress to play the oversight role they need to play. >> we know there's an iffy proposition.
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thank you for coming on allowing us to test your position. >> thanks a lot, chris. we want to take you to breaking news in kentucky. look at this industrial fire that's going on. we understand four companies -- fire companies are on the scene of a four alarm fire there at louisville's massive general election appliance park in louisville. that building engulfed is building number 6. it has been evacuated. we believe that it is being considered a total loss. we don't know what caused this fire but just last month a fire in the very same facility was caused by a dryer. we understand the smoke you can see thick, black smoke which means there's a whole lot of fuel in there still burning. all of this is going on while louisville is also dealing with widespread flooding after heavy rainfall overnight. you can imagine emergency crews there are stretched to the limit with the flooding and then this massive industrial fire that's going on. we'll continue to update this when we can. >> we'll see, we'll learn if there's a connection between the two, if there's some strain on the electrical something going
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on with the electrical. that's a developing story. we'll tell you what we know as we learn. we're learning more about the bloody ram pain at the university college in kenya as the search intensifies. al shabaab terrorists were literally singling out christians and opening fire. 147 people lost their lives, most of them students. we have cnn's christian purefoy with the latest in kenya. >> reporter: at 5:00 a.m. yesterday morning al shabaab terrorists drove up this dirt track, killed two policemen standing guard at that gate and then drove into the university where over 800 students were waking up to what they thought was just another day. now we have seen security trucks and ambulances going up and down this road but the military have locked down that university. even here on this side of the gate there is a sense of detachment about what happened the mass murder and horror that must have gone on yesterday. here's what we know so far.
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>> this morning it's been over 24 hours since al shabaab gunmen terrorized this university in kenya. now with at least 147 dead and nearly 600 evacuated, the community in complete agony. >> the massacre beginning before dawn. >> it's unfortunate that where they were going to is where the gunshots were coming from. >> the gunmen going dormitory to dormitory before kenyan forces eventually corner them. the standoff lasting for hours finally at around 9:00 p.m. officials announce the end of the operation.
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garissa university college, some 19 miles west of the somali border. a region caught up in the ongoing battle with a somali based terror group, al shabaab. >> kenya has been the primary driving force behind operations against al shabaab in the region. >> the very same islamist extremists responsible for the 2013 west gate mall massacre in nairobi, kenya. according to reports, students had heard warning of an impending attack on the campus. just this past week entering a bounty for this man, muhammad muhammad wanted in connection with the campus attack. the officials say kenyan forces killed the four terrorists responsible in the nearly 17 hour siege. still too fresh. >> somalia, al shabaab's strong hold is about a four hour drive in that direction. 190 kilometers down the track. now it's a long porous border.
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it's very difficult to stop these terrorists coming across and hitting soft targets like this. but for now, today, it's about kenya trying to come to terms with what happened behind those gates. back to you. >> all right. thank you very much. as the updates come in we'll continue to tell you about that story on cnn throughout the morning. >> a live report from anycoming up kenya upcoming. a price is right model giving priceless responses on twitter after she, how do i put this accidentally gave away a car, a brand-new car on a show. it happened during a game where the contestant had three tries to guess the car's price. check out what happened next. >> 19,849. go ahead. no. oh! >> oopsy. the model clearly embarrassed. oh no.
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>> but guess what they gave her the car, which was really solid of the price is right. she's so happy but apparently the model took to twitter afterwards to say that she's not in any trouble. she also had kind of a funny shout out to oprah saying hey, oprah, now i know what it feels like to be you. whenever you feel like giving cars away on the show let me know which i just think is fantastic. >> well played and great for the show. the price is right did the right thing giving that woman the car. oh, i love that sound. do you remember that? you know what it was the right sound. it was perfect. we don't want you to feel that bad. we're not going to mock you. >> exactly. you want one of those skinny microphones. >> i do. he was great. >> pretty cool. i'll never forget. remember spay or neuter your pets. >> talking like him the rest of the show. give it back now. all right. we're going to head back to our news after a short break here. we're going to turn back to kenya, the site of that brazen and bloody university attack and the search today for answers.
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we are going to speak with a reporter who was there as all of that terror unfolded. make no mistake, indiana and arkansas have fixed their religious freedom laws. this story is far from over. we're going to tell you what is happening now. [rob] so we've had a tempur-pedic for awhile, but now that we have the adjustable base, it's even better. [evie] i go up...heeeeyyy... [alex] when i put my feet up on this bed my stress just goes away. [announcer] visit your local retailer and discover how tempur-pedic can move you. in small business you have to work hard, know your numbers, and stay focused. i was determined to create new york city's first self-serve frozen yogurt franchise. and now you have 42 locations. the more i put into my business the more i get out of it. like 5x your rewards when you make select business purchases with your ink plus card from chase.
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a manhunt is underway this morning for the alleged master mind behind that bloody rampage at a university in kenya. officials are offering a $215,000 reward for information about this man, muhammad muhammad. thursday's deadly terror attack by al shabaab terrorists killed 147 people. joining me now is the chief african correspondent for the african news channel who covered thursday's terror attack. maybe you can bring us up to date on the latest details we know. 147 people have died mostly students. there were literally dozens and dozens of people injured. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: well, yes. dozens and dozens injured with gunshot wounds michaela which means that that death toll could
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rise significantly. in fact we're hearing, it's not confirmed, but we are hearing that the death toll is quite a lot higher than initially described by the minister of interior yesterday evening. 147 is what it's at right now. we believe that number could rise and it could rise significantly. just some of the things that we're hearing here in nairobi. every now and again you get message alerts coming from the local news services which state that bodies are being flown in from garissa to a local airport here in nairobi and taken to the mortuary. there are families that will have to go and identify their loved ones that were killed in yesterday's attack. the last message that we had was that 48 bodies had been flown in from garissa. you can imagine how horrifying it must be for these family members believing that their loved ones are going to come
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back for a long weekend. today is good friday. it's a long weekend. most students would have traveled home yesterday for the long weekend. instead they're being greeted by caskets. >> these families so much heart break for that community. to that point, it is easter weekend. we know we're learning this chilling detail, that the gunmen separated the nonmuslims from the muslims killing the christians. what a horrifying attack. >> yes. it's not the first time we've seen this. there seems to be a pattern in these shabab -- at least recent shabab attacks. the first time we saw it was in -- and heard of it was in the west gate attack in 2013 when we were told that people inside the mall were killing each other. they had to recite a special
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verse on their korans. they were typing it so they could pretend they were muslims. those who were muslims could recite it by heart. nonmuslims were executed very similarly to yesterday's attack or kept aside. in some cases if they were children they were however, let go. we also saw this in a small village that was all but exterminated by al shabaab late last year. i went there. al shabaab were using rocket propelled grenades. they were lighting things on fire. they behaved very much like a small militia rather than a group of thugs. they blocked -- they were separating muslims from nonmuslims and oftentimes killing the nonmuslims. >> such horror. this is being considered the deadliest attack in kenya since the 1998 bombing of the embassy in nairobi. the west gate mall horrifying siege in 2013. this is all going on we
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understand while the kenyan president is saying there is a shortage of police. what is being done to sort of support the police services and maybe even find more willing and able police officers? >> reporter: unfortunately police don't get paid very much here in kenya, michaela. i mean unbelievably low amounts. i can't say offhand, but it is very very low. so sometimes officers are driven to corrupt measures to make up money in which to simply feed their families. it's not the kind of career that people try to go into unless they're absolutely desperate. so there is a shortage of police officers. in a time of war. in a time of terror. this is asymmetrical insurgent warfare, it's not conventional warfare that they can fight with tanks and planes. they can assimilate into the local population. they do have a lack of police. the president is saying that 10,000 young recruits will be released onto the streets very
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soon. you will remember that president barack obama is due to visit in july. these sorts of things will need to be sorted out. >> they very much will. we know that will be front of mind for the white house as they prepare for that visit. robyn kriel letting us know that the death toll is expected to rise. thanks for your reporting, we appreciate it. >> chris. >> mich we'll stay on that. the end of the battle with the religious freedom laws or just beginning? indiana approving historic legislation protecting gays and lesbians. that's not the way it started out. nearly every 2016 hopeful weighing in on this issue. what will it mean for the upcoming presidential race? digging deeper. stay with us.
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and natural gas is a big part of that commitment. and then i saw him slowly coming down the aisle. one of those guys who just can't stop talking. i was downloading a movie. i was trying to download a movie. i have verizon. i don't. i get that little spinning wheel. download didn't finish. i finished the download. headphones on. and i'm safe. i didn't finish in time. so. many. stories. vo: join us and save without settling. verizon.
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want to take you back to this breaking news. we have now a massive fire. let's get to the pictures we have in louisville. we know the area is dealing with droughts. >> yes. >> now this. this is a ge appliance factory. it's on fire. mich you were saying it's a four alarm fire. >> at this point the latest information we have from our affiliate on the ground is it's a four alarm fire. it's said to have started in building 6.
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they believe building 6 is a total loss at this point. you can imagine they're having to pump a whole lot of water in there. all the weight of that water is going to cause the -- >> you're seeing that. >> it looks as though it's collapsing. >> pictures telling the story. louisville dealing with flooding. the good news is that building was said to be evacuated. it is a massive place. we can't confirm that everyone got out of there. that's the latest reporting. four alarm fire is big. it's also an area that's going to need the resources and obviously they're behind on this one. >> here's the challenge as you mentioned. all of that flame that's going on is already taxing local first responders. the fact that they have a four alarm fire means a whole lot of engine companies will be there on scene battling this blaze. you can tell by the thickness and blackness of this smoke there's a lot of fuel in there. this is not anywhere close to being knocked down. they have a lot of work to do. building 6 was evacuated. the rest of the plant, i don't know but i can imagine the evacuations would have happened
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in short order given the fact that you can see the smoke from miles and miles away. >> the plume is very impressive. they're very dramatic pictures. what started the fire what is the accelerant. what is that fuel. they make appliances. that's part of the big task. as we get more information we'll bring it in to you. we wanted to pick you up on that right now. as it says on your screen louisville dealing with a huge fire at a ge plant there. we'll give you more information as we get it. all right. we have other breaking news for you as well. the labor department releasing the march jobs report. let's get right to "cnn money" correspondent alisin kosik. >> good morning. we found a huge hiccup in the jobs numbers for march. only 126,000 jobs were added. this is a huge miss. what was expected 244,000 jobs. so you're seeing a trend actually head lower. to add incompetent sultsult to injury
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we saw january's numbers fall and february's numbers fall. they were adjusted lower. that's not good news. unemployment rate bull's eye. 5.5%. here the same thing as what we saw in february. another good indicator that i'd like to look at about the health of the u.s. economy, i'd like to look at the labor force participation rate. what that is the percentage of americans who are actually working or looking for work. here's what concerns me the most about the labor force participation rate. it's at levels we haven't seen since the late 1970s. so we want to see more people in the work force. right now we're seeing 30% of americans not actively looking for work or working. what you see, chris and michaela that portion of the population on the sidelines or some saying just vanishing. that's concerning. once again i give it a miss and a sad face for the jobs report simply because 126,000 jobs
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added to this economy in march. >> very indicative symbol that you give us there for it. obviously that's the concern. you hear the unemployment number it sounds good but there are a number of people that quit looking. >> that's more concerning. alisin thank you for that. presidential hopefuls are sounding off. will this be a big issue in the upcoming election? we've got someone we can ask that question to coming up.
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>> there are more than 80 similar measures being considered around the country, rfra laws. religious freedom restoration acts. if you're running for president, you have to weigh in. some are actually not just weighing in they're doubling down. let's discuss. here to weigh in cnn political commentator, smerconish michael smerconish. >> what did you see in this situation? >> i saw disaster for the gop long term. this is how you win a nomination. this is how you placate the evangelical base in iowa. this is not how you win independents and moderates who live in the backyard in philadelphia and are truly swing
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voters. >> i was thinking about the fact that they have to be very very careful in crafting the message. if you say the wrong thing you're talking about intolerance. >> someone like governor bush they are prepared to lose the primary in order to win the general. well he had a perfect example here of where i think he could have distinguished himself from the pack. he didn't. instead, he very hurriedly gave an interview and towed the party line with governor pence and then two days later, pence had a reversal. where does it leave jeb? >> or does this con flaflagration strengthen the resolve and embolden them to come out in a way that maybe they hadn't? >> chris, that's true. that's great for primary season but there aren't enough of them in the nation to sway a general election. >> you don't think this issue plays not just to the fringe? you don't think it tries to get you into the mainstream of
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christianity? >> i think that all of the trend lines of the country are on the side of recognition of increased rights of gays and lesbians. for every day they're talking about this or other cultural matters like abortion it's a day they are not talking about the economy, they are not talking about the iranian deal. they are not talking about things that could bring out people that could decide the election. >> talk about a conflagration. you talk about the economy and what's going on business getting involved. we saw angie's list we saw the ncaa we saw all sorts of businesses voicing their concern and downright dismay with what was going on in indiana. although recently let's pull up this reaction from angie's list ceo sort of saying they're not happy with the fix. they say the position is the fix is insufficient. there is no repeal of rfra and no end to discrimination of homosexuals in indiana. do you think that is an indication business isn't
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warming to the fix. >> michaela you've really put your finger on it. i don't think what triggered this was the evangelical reaction or the blow back i think it was this natural constituency for the gop. the chambers of commerce were on the flip side of this issue. if the final four were not in indy this weekend and into next week i don't think there would have been resolution of this issue. but the republican party in arkansas to be at odds with walmart or to be at odds with angie's list or any number of major corporations including apple over what went on in india, that's not where they need to be. >> money talks, there's no question about it. but, you know i have to tell you, one of the things that stood out to me i don't think we've seen something happen this fast and furious on a social issue in a long time. >> that's right. >> a coalition had states sports big business coming out and driving a change to a social issue. >> well you saw republicans, you saw governor pence and you saw governor hutchinson both trying to wrap themselves in bill clinton from the early
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'90ed. i . i think the problem is we've undergone a change. in the early 1990s. remember what i do i answer telephones from people across the country. in answering telephones in the early '90s people would have been lock step on the side of the baker. those days i think are largely over. >> since you're taking calls and i feel that you've had it -- >> michaela from new york city. >> michaela has this question. a big week of news that you'll be sort of recapping, looking at digging through. iran. i mean a big, big, big historic story, but it's not done yet. obviously just a framework at this point. but also the fact that the president now has to come home and make the case to congress. >> and i think he's got a tough sale on his hands given, and you've already been discussing this i saw the interview from the last half hour israel really holds a lot of cards with regard to what the gop controlled house will do. to the extent that prime minister netanyahu has already dug in on this and i saw the interview with mark regev, i
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think they clearly have it puts the gop leadership in a very tight spot. i'd be very hard-pressed to see boehner and company take a position different from that of the israelis. >> do you think that there is anything they won't use as a political football or do you think that this is not a political football this is a legitimate earnest difference of opinion about how to deal with a potentially dangerous subject? >> i think there are legitimate concerns to be expressed against this deal. i don't want to say this is part and parcel of obama's for it we're against it although there's a heck of a lot of that that takes place in the country. what we've seen recently is that the partisan divide on domestic issues has leapt into the foreign policy realm. now today everything is subject to that red state/blue state divide. >> michael, thank you very much. >> great to see you. >> this is just a taste. check out smerconish saturdays on 9:00 a.m. eastern. and you hear him weekdays at 9:00 a.m. eastern. we are continuing to monitor the massive industrial blaze
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going on in louisville kentucky. part of the ge appliance park if you will. we're showing you live pictures of that blaze. we're told it's a four alarm fire right now. the building it appears that parts of it the roof of it is collapsing. we're going to continue to monitor this and bring you more updates after the break. i don't understand... your grass, man! it's a living, breathing thing. it's hungry, and you've got to feed it with scotts turf builder. that a boy, mikey! two feedings now in the springtime strengthens and helps protect your lawn from future problems. get scotts turf builder lawn food. it's guaranteed. feed your lawn. feed it! and to keep crabgrass away all season long, get scotts turf builder with halts crabgrass preventer.
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there are many unanswered questions about one of the most prominent women in the bible.
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mary mag doe len.magdalene. the final episode of cnn's "finding jesus" explore's mary magdalene's true role. >> it would have been incompetent credibly likely that jesus would have been married during his lifetime. >> this is high stakes stuff. so if jesus, the son of god, was married, maybe he had children. if he had that kind of an intimate relationship people want to know. and if he had children that means there might be people wandering around today with sort of holy blood in them. >> let's bring in one of the biblical scholars featured in "finding jesus." nikola. she's at brown university. married? i don't remember that from my bible classes when i was in sunday school. >> they didn't teach you that? >> they didn't teach me that. how mind blowing is that? how much of a revelation is
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that? >> i think it's a big revelation for people but it's also a kind of nice alternative to a story that sometimes you might hear in bible class in sunday school. that was that mary magdalene was a prostitute repentant sinner. this other aspect that she might have been jesus's wife is a tanlt at thatlizing thing we want to know about. >> tantalizing is not always the same as being actual though. what do you see as you start to lay out the two different roads of who this woman was? we do believe she existed. >> yeah. >> so what do you think? >> we definitely think that she existed. there's no question about that. she's mentioned in the new testament 12 times but really very ee luce civilly. there's very little that's said about her. i think this kind of adds to the mystery about her. and one thing that we know is that it was a common thing for people to be
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also would have been associated with a man. so for these two figures to show up somehow associated with one another but are not explicitly said to be married, again, makes you wonder what's going on there. >> we know that mary was present when jesus was crucified and was there, among the first to discover he was missing from the tomb. that's not changed but that speaks to her importance in this story of jesus. >> yeah. absolutely. and i'll take this as two kind of separate things. her presence at the crucifixion is a little weird, little strange. she is not named as a family member. he has his mother there and not named as a disciple and a little dialogue about how jesus there says to his mother please kind of take over taking care of john my disciple as your son. but mary magdalene doesn't get factored in but mentioned. why is he mentioned and there at
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that moment? now, in terms of the resurrection that's hugely important because it says in all four gospels she is a witness to the resurrection. and that's tremendously, tremendously important for the christian tradition. >> how do you factor in the rules of the time with what you're able to find and document? you know like none of the disciples were women. it was san fized because it was such a male dominance theory and looking at it it was equally likely that he was patronized by women, older women and couples and may have had a lot of couples and didn't go with the narrative of the church they wanted drafting the different versions of the bible. >> i think the writings that are now in the new testament, i don't think they were necessarily being exclusionary and talking about particular characters and name the people as disciples but i don't think that they necessarily thought, oh by not calling mary magdalene a disciple, she
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shouldn't be considered as one. paul in the writings doesn't talk about mary magdalene and talks about women apostles, actually. so they're there in the tradition. we see them. but garageally as the church kind of masculinizes they have to do something about women with equals or disciples or followers so they're there early on. we see them but they start to fade out. >> hopefully this is planted a seed for you in the finale the sixth and final episode in "finding jesus" and airs per suspect for your sunday traditions this easter sunday at 9:00 p.m. thanks so much for joining us and giving us a little food for thought today. >> so welcome. >> little bit more food for thought. do you think you could live on $11 a day? >> not in new york. >> right? that's what some miami, florida, residents have to do. not cheap either. it's far from scenic south beach. children living in communities
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surrounded by high crime and very deep abject poverty but this week cnn hero is using music to inspire them to choose guitars over guns. meet chad bernstein. >> guitar over guns will be meeting today. please be on time and ready to rock. >> as a professional musician the disappearance of music in schools concerns me because i would be lost without music. our program offers free after school programming to at-risk middle schoolers. music is most important tool we have in reaching these kids. >> guys if you could go to the instruments. we split the program up in 30-minute chunks. mentoring, instrument instruction and ensemble experience. our mentors are professional musicians who build relationships. how's everything? >> we get to know what their lives are like at home. a lot of times these kids only see to the end of their block.
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we like to give them exposure to the rest of the world. >> vocals over there. >> watching the kids really transform is the best part. >> before the program, i wouldn't think that i would be in a studio. >> little bit off timing. >> but now, i probably could be like a teacher. >> you want to punch in the ending? >> without this program, i would be in jail or dead. ♪ >> when i see a kid have their moment it makes you realize we're doing work that matters. >> choose your sound! ♪ ♪ ♪
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pink floyd singing just about this. >> real sfli. >> today's good stuff out of a fantasy or a movie. here's the deal. this brinks truck, okay is in utah. hits a bump. they left a door unlocked in the back. and it's -- >> you're making this up! >> a sack of money falls out. >> get out. >> right in front of driver dan kennedy. it was so big he pulled over and didn't know what it was. he wanted to pull it out of the
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highway thinking it would cause an accident. he checked inside. saw it was money and took it and nobody's heard from him and not his wife or kids. no. he returned it. not right away. >> i had to show a couple of people at work. you won't believe this. check this out! >> i would have done the same thing. >> after that he called the utah highway patrol. they praised him for his honesty. >> obviously, someone was presented with a situation and he made the right choice. >> you'd do it. you'd do it. i mean wouldn't you? everybody would. >> nah! the bag of money weighed 75 pounds! >> how much money is that? >> who knows? he doesn't. >> a lot of money. >> he didn't take any of it. he didn't touch a dime. say those who give us the story. so how about that? >> that is really incredible. that's incredible. i do love his honesty. took some pictures showed some friends at work. i would have done the same thing. i want to know what he would do don lemon in for carol costello.
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tell me the truth. >> he wouldn't know who don lemon is if that happened to him. >> look. one of my favorite people. how are you doing? >> hi baby. >> too easy. too easy don. >> i would always do the right thing. hey, great job this morning. chris, great job with what's going on in indiana. watching you a lot. both of you. happy easter to you both. >> to you, as well don. >> "newsroom" starts right now. happening right now in the cnn newsroom premeditated murder. the black box of germanwings confirming that the co-pilot sped up the plane before it smashed into the alps. then part mad scientist, part isis worshippers.


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