tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 14, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
have to say, if he does run for anything that video will be sure to help out. and people layoff people with the pacifier criticism. get a life. be sure to join us to watch "outfront." ac360 starts now. >> graphic video, a shot fired and then this. a police department involved see what you see here saved the gunman's life. a police car saving a man's life. we'll show you more of the video. and also more the educators behind a massive school-cheating scandal and the judge today who threw the book at them. >> everybody in the education system at aps knew that cheating was going on and your client promoted it. >> we'll have more on what the judge said. we begin with the dash cam
video. police in the tucson suburb of more anna released it today. a suspect allegedly armed with a stolen rifle and police said he threatened to use it on himself and then as you see and hear a shot is fired by the suspect and the police car comes screaming right at the guy. again, it is graphic and you'll see it at two angles and including the dash cam on the cruiser that hit the man. >> oh! jesus christ man down! he's down he's down! >> unit standoff. standoff. the gun is loaded. unit loaded. stay off!
. >> christ! man down man down. >> well with the stories out there lately with all of the details just behind this video. what do we know about this. >> the one critical we don't see in the video. the one gunshot. this is a 36-year-old of valencia fired off as police were telling him to put down the gun. he fired it into the air, not at police. but there were other police cruisers comes -- coming at him. his crime spree started at 6:45 robbing a 7-eleven at 6:45 and set fire to a church after that went to a home and broke in and then stole that homeowner's car and drove that car to marana north of the city and went to a walmart and stole a 30-30 rifle
and broke a lock off the rifle while an officer from the store was in pursuit and was walking down what police say was a business park toward a business where 3-to 400 people were working and that is when they had to take action. >> and the police chief spoke out about the incident. what did he say, particularly about hitting the suspect. >> he is taking an aggressive stance. he said we're not going to monday morning quarterback this. he said this is a guy with clear mental issues and failed to follow any of the police officer's directions. and here is a little more of what the police chief had to say. >> if we're going to choose between -- maybe we'll let him go farther and see what happens and take him out now and eliminate any opportunity that he has to hurt somebody you're going to error on the side in favor of the innocent people.
>> the officer who ran him down was -- who had been on the force there for one year and also served on the police force in tucson and new york city. that point there are no charges pending against that officer. and the suspect survived and where he is now? >> he did survive. he's facing 15 different charges. he was in the hospital for a time. he is now out. he's been seen by a judge already. his next court appearance is in may. may 18th. and a slew of charges, being held on 25,$000 bail. his lawyer said there is no reason for police to do this and he didn't take into account his mental state and this is just as bad as shooting somebody in the back. anderson. >> miguel marquez, appreciate it. >> and i want to bring in our both former members of the new york police department and criminal police attorney. this is a guy who shot off into the air and a record the police
knew about and a crime spree in the words of the police of chief. was this justified to hit the guy with the police cruiser. >> let me tell you what is going on in the mind of the police officer. we went through what he -- had occurred. he put the gun to his head threatening to kill himself. so the guy doesn't care much about his life. and we have a man walking down the street with a weapon. he could have dropped the weapon at any time and he did not. what if that man walks into somebody and maybe taking a potential hostage or shooting somebody and fighting the gun in the air. now the officers are thinking what do i have to do. are we going to surround him with radio cars and who else can get killed by bullets flying around and the our decided -- the officer decided to take him out was with the car and i'm 100% behind him with the car. >> and the chief said this saved
his life. does this make sense? is this justified if you save their life doing it? >> it is easy for me to money morning quarterback it in the chair. i have to question the tactic. i think setting up a secure perimeter and making some attempt to negotiate may have been far more efficient. here is another angle to this. the officer who hits the suspect there also looks -- hits what looks to be like a cinder block wall so he is creating a danger for himself too. so on balance, it would be better to set a perimeter. >> so you risk him turning around and taking -- firing on an officer and they are not behind bulletproof glass sand they are in range behind that pistol what do you make of it? >> i can't believe what i'm hearing. you see what this officer did. you see this windshield crash.
you see him drive straight into a wall which under any other circumstance would look like a fast and furious 8. this is not a police tactic. this is no tactic. in fact, you hear what the other policeman said in the first camera which is don't go there. don't go there. he's got a gun. just as easily the suspect could have turned around and started firing because he sees the car approach. this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. you have no idea -- the officer who is coming in and hitting the brick wall he doesn't know if there is kids playing on the other side of that wall or anything else. this is insanity. >> this saved lives. he could have walked into anybody on the street. somebody could have came out of the house and shot them. forget about the guy's mental capacity. forget about it. he is putting lives in danger. >> but to mark's point. he could have heard the car screeching toward him and turned around and fired. just as he could have taken a
hostage, he could have hurt the officer. >> the cop could have killed himself driving into a block wall. >> and the police officer could have killed himself -- could have been killed by shooting it out with this guy. so you don't know. so the officer thought this was the best thing he could do at the time. i'm 100% behind what this offer did. >> dan, the fact that the police officer didn't announce over the radio to the other police officers what he was going to do to mark's point, you hear the officer on the first recording clearly surprised that this police car -- this cruiser behind him suddenly swerved around and went right for this guy, i mean aren't you supposed to inform other officers again, this is all monday morning quarterbacking aren't you supposed to inform other officers what you are about to do. >> it seems strange. the initial individual void -- video that the one officer is exercising tactical control over his radio and then clearly frustrated that the other
officer who who is -- who he is asking to stand down is bypassing any order or command and can you hear the frustration in the initial over's voice who says something like "jesus christ man down." so i don't think this is something you would teach in a police academy. >> is there any difference between if the police shot this guy, as he was walking down the street after i discharged the weapon or hitting him with a police cruiser in your opinion? >> it is a good question. i'm strictly arguing the tactic not the fact that the suspect had to be engaged. there is zero question from a reasonable point of view that this suspect risks serious personal injury he to be stopped but i don't think the tactic of hitting him with the vehicle was appropriate in this -- given the circumstances.
>> but, harry, is this a tactic they teach in the police academy? >> no it is not a tactic they teach in the police academy. >> of course. >> but the tactics that you use out there -- in the academy, they teach you for specific situations. all situations are different. they can't teach you for every type of situation. >> so mark we know the guy that was hit is facing multiple charges, serious charges. do you think he has cause to now file a lawsuit? i mean anybody can file a lawsuit, but against the police department? >> he's obviously going to file a lawsuit against the police department. whether he prevails on that is a completely different matter. but back to this idea of this being a tactic, not only would they never teach this in a police academy anywhere or in any kind of a police setting, but actually what they would tell you is that the first officer who is narrating what is going on was doing the appropriate thing. he was the one approaching with caution. he was the one announcing that the shot has been fired.
he didn't fire the shot. and to approach with caution. the second officer who does the ramming, they talk about the first guy, the suspect or the defendant doing suicide by cop, it is almost as if the second cop was trying to commit suicide. the idea of driving straight into a brick wall is insanity. >> but dan, haven't police active shootings -- we talked about this with harry last week it used to be you set up a perimeter and now it is first officers who respond, you try and you engage with the shooter and deal with the shooter because you don't want more lives to be lost or the potential for lives to be lost. >> yes. bingo. you hit the nail on the head right there. after columbine, that changed everything. the tragic school shooting. the idea before columbine -- precolumbine was stop and set up a perimeter, and allow for the
special weapons teams, the s.w.a.t. and special teams come in and handle the problem. after columbine that changes. you have to bypass people who were injured to stop an active shooter right away. i'm wondering if in this case that wasn't in the back of this officer's head. again, trying to get in his head is tough. but i'm having a hard time wondering why he ran his car over a curb and into a brick wall. it doesn't make sense. >> final thought, harry. >> had this guy when he was dilly dallying walking down the street and not taking any action had he shot and killed somebody we'd be talking about how could he have not taken any action earlier. >> larry houck, stick around. and the deposit who killed someone, i want to talk about that. and his defender saying why he fired his revolver instead of his taser. one called it junk science and another expert says it is a winning argument in court.
and we'll talk about it ahead. and sentencing in the biggest school cheating scandals. we're not talking about schools cheating we're talking about school administrators to pass students along not getting the education they deserved. we're talking with the man who led the investigation next. the promise of the cloud is that every organization has unlimited access to information, no matter where they
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the big race... or a healthy start before the big meeting there's a choice hotel that's waiting for you. this spring, choose choice twice, get a night at no price at 1,500 hotels. book now at choicehotels.com a volunteer deputy in tulsa who shot and killed a suspect by mistake turned himself in. robert baits is his name and he sur rended this morning and then immediately made bail and left. he's charged with second degree murder. and someone is heard shouting taser taser when the suspect is down and he fires his revolver
once and it is not clear if bates indicates ep was about to use his taser. his likely defense is when he grabbed the gun, his muscle memory theory. >> 22-year-old oscar grant get news a scuffle with bart transit police. officer mezzerly and another officer try to subdue grant. at some point the officer announces i'm going to taze him and then fires. trouble is he didn't use his taser. he mistakenly grabbed his semi automatic handgun fired one shot into his back killing him. protested erupted. how could a police have made such a fatal error. perhaps because of something called slips in capture.
a psychological stress phenomenon causes a person to slip from their intended path to be captured by a stronger response to takes them in a different direction. this man responded in the trial. >> he's mentally trying to draw his tazer in a cross draw position in front of his belt but his hand is on his side arm. he raises himself up and then fires the one shot and then immediately reacts -- oh, my god. >> the officer was convicted of in voluntarily manslaughter. the jury finded he acted recklessly but not intentionally. >> slips in capture can happen when officers rely on old habits and when training is limited. in the bart case myers said the officer had only drawn his taser ten times during training but had drawn his firearm 50 teams
even week. and without enough tasers to go around the officer was using a different holster configuration every night. >> slips in capture have come into play before. in 2002 in madera, california a suspect was shot with a gun after trying to kick out the window of a employ car. the chief said the officer meant to grab her taser. the suspect died and the officer was never charged. in 2008, in kentucky someone was shot when a officer pulled his firearm instead. the man survived. a grand jury chose not to indict the officer. in all, myers knows of ten cases in the u.s. and canada which he said involved slip in capture and all of them involve the strong hand. >> the hand they normally use for their handgun is the same hand they also use for the taser because of the way the holster configurations were.
>> meyer sees that as a recipe for disaster and working to get police departments to change the holster configuration, separating the taser from the handgun. randy kay, cnn, new york. >> and not everyone buys into the theory. joining us is phil stenson, a professor of criminal justice, and bill lewinski who testified at the bart trial and retained as a consultant with the attorney in this case and tulsa county sheriff's office and lou gehrig os with us. and you explain this as junk science. explain. >> it is junk science. it is not expert testimony. there is no -- there is no testable theory and not subject to peer review. we don't know the error rate and it is not accepted by the giantivic community.
that being said i think there is a place for this type of psychology and that is if it helps us to learn what happened then it would be appropriate for that purpose. anderson the national institute of justice which is the research arm at the department of justice is funding research into events in the criminal justice systems, which are systematic errors and by studying the errors we can reduce mistakes whether in wrongful conviction or improper police shootings so for that purpose i do think that slips and capture might be appropriate psychology but it is not scientific evidence. >> bill you disagree clearly. to those who say this is junk science, what do you say? >> well we can go back to literature sources like shakespeare who includes verbal slicks and capture and we can look at froyd with everyday life who refers to slips and there is a fair amount of science on
freudian psychology or the last 60 years of research that specifically looks at slips in the medical world and aviation history. i have a journal article that we are dealing with tax on imy of medical errors and using it as a model of errors in the police world. there is 45 citations only dealing with how we categorize these type of errors dating back to the 1960s. so professor might not be aware of the literature source which is extremely vast and literally covers thousands of journal articles -- in fact -- >> let me ask phil about that. are mistakes that are made, or slips in the medical world, are they relevant and can you apply that to the policing world? >> well from a standpoint of industrial psychology absolutely. but the problem here is that
slips and capture in terms of it being add missable in courts of law as expert testimony is a different problem. and the doctor said his research in this area has been published in law enforcement publications and websites that doesn't cut it. it has not been subject to peer review. >> and mark let me bring you into this. and even if there is not enough science on the police side to back it up. and in phil's opinion, a judge can still allow slips and capture in a trial it. was allowed in the oscar grant shooting. >> well phil is right in this perfectly legal sense. you have to get over a hurdle. you have to get over what is called the dal bert hurdle. and he's using the right term which is junk science and judge's are the gatekeepers. do you allow in this or not. and you have pretrial hearings on this and the judge will decide is this accept add in
the scientific community. that is one area. will the judge allow this in as scientific evidence. the other aspect of this is are you still going to get this in. somehow i made a mistake and thought i was reaching for the taser and got the gun in. well yes, you can get that in. through the defendant testifying and that is generally why these cases end up with no conviction or an involuntary manslaughter because generally, especially if there is one shot generally juries find for the cop in that case. but as a purely practical matter slipt and capture is not -- slip and capture is not a generally accepted form of science or accepted in the courts on any general basis. >> bill let me ask you, because just the other day i was practicing taking a gun out of a police holster with the police department and i didn't realize there are safety mechanisms put
in. you can't pull it out. different safety mechanisms some you have to pull it out and twist and pull down. is the same safety mechanisms built into a taser holster, do you know and are they the same mechanism used for a gun holster, so that would be one way to try, in the future to avoid, if slips and capture is legitimate to have one more obstacle for a police officer to realize, wait a minute i'm pulling this out in a different way than i would pull out my taser? >> anderson whether we look at errors -- and i'll get to your question in a second. whether we look at errors in the medical community which have been very well researched and peer reviewed in the atomic energy in the aircraft industry in fact national transportation and safety board uses this very concept as a fundamental foundation for research in crash investigations
involving airplane crashes and it is used internationally. >> so you are saying it is legit. do you know on the holster situation, is it the same mechanism, do you know? >> the issue comes to this. if the behavior has a common original starting point and is similar, you can get these roirps where there -- areas where there is inattention. if you have a different holster configuration, then you get a directed attention toward the process and minimize the chance of an error. however, it is much better as greg meyer was talking about, to use an entirely different limb which then makes you less susceptible to use -- to the slip and error. >> it is great to have you on. bill and mark as well. and coming up one of the nation's biggest school cheating scandals. and we're not talking about students we're talking about administrators. the massive conspiracy. a judge who sented some of the
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. the next story hits a hot button because it hits home. inflates scores of students to protect their own jobs and paychecks. eight atlanta public school educators charges with racketeering and associated with mob bosses in a massive cheating scheme. three of the eight, top administrators in the atlanta public school system drew the harshest punishment. 0 years, seven years in prison and the rest on probation. whose hot button this hit, including including superior court judge jerry baxtor. >> i'm giving my sentence based on your client williamss and mr. pitts were at the very top
of this scandal, at the very top. and everybody in the education system at aps knew that cheating was going on and your client promoted it. there were thousands of children that were harmed in this thing. this is not a victimless crime that occurred in this city. from 2001, there was whole-scale cheating going on in the atlanta public schools and these kids were passed on and passed on and had no chance because of where they lived and who they parents were and just their situation. and the only chance that they had was the school. >> judge i -- >> to get an education, what. >> what a day in court. martin savidge joins us next.
how exactly did the administrators and the teachers orchestrate this widespread cheating. >> this goes back to -- to like 2001 is when it began. and the educators, principals and top people in the education administrator, conspired, not everyone in the system but a number of them to change the test results. these were standardized tests, my kids took these tests and they were going back and correcting the wrong answers to make the results look better and make the students look better and thereby make the educators look better and the bonus and the raises they got. so it was a group of teachers and administrators that corrected or gave the students the right answers but regardless it is cheating. >> and the judge offered them one last chance to take a plea deal. how many took it and accepted responsibility. how many took it? >> there had been a number of
times that the plea deals had been offered to these people. and over and over it was rejected. and finally, yesterday when the sentencing was supposed to begin. i'm going to give you one more try at it here. one more chance to accept this plea deal. there were two that finally came forward and yes, they took responsibility. they took the plea deal. they get lenient serve sentences -- sentences. they served six months in jail on the weekends and one is confined and only at night. and the judge was furious. listen to him. >> i was trying to give everybody one more chance and probably going to have -- to have tomatoes thrown at me. but nobody took it. nobody took it. so things change. and all i want from any of these people is just to take some
responsibility. but they refuse. they refuse. and -- >> may i say something dish. >> i am convinced that your client recruited those two retired teachers and cheated on that test. >> the top three administrators got seven years each, 13 years and others got one to two years in prison for cheating. >> and joining us tonight michaelbaer, the former attorney joenl who lead -- attorney general who led the investigation. you've known the judge, and what did you think about the saengsing today -- sentencing today? >> i was not surprised as all. >> because? >> because i'd known him for a while and he gave fair warning to the defendants of what was likely to them if they did not take the deal offered to them by the district attorney.
>> what is incredible about this whole conspiracy is that the kids who needed help the most the ones who were most vulnerable didn't have other alternatives -- education alternatives and they were the ones that got hurt. as the judge said this was not a victimless crime. >> that is absolutely correct. in fact this whole mess and i think it is fair to call it a true mess is about the children. and these are the most vulnerable children in the state of georgia. and it truly is heartbreaking when you consider that these children were robbed of an education. i'm a grandfather and i feel for them. and my heart just cries out for those children. >> and i mean the damage that was done it is not simply the years that these kids were in school they got hurt because they were allowed through the cracks like that, without an
education, just kind of passed on [ inaudible ]. >> there is no question about that. and it reverberates in the prison system and unwed -- children of unwed mothers, and it goes on and on and on for god knows how long and it is a tragedy beyond description. >> but you have no doubt there are some people who were push the along and ended up being pushed through the school system without learning as they should have who have now ended up in the prison system in the jail system and part of -- part of that is because of what happened to them early on. i mean had they at least had a chance at an education, there would have been a greater chance they wouldn't have ended up incarcerated? >> mr. anderson there is no doubt in my mind there are a lot of people in the prison system who didn't get the right kind of education and as a
result resorted to crime at very early ages because they simply weren't able to read and write. >> it also -- i have to say and the judge really hammered this home. it seems like there are a bunch of administrators at the top of all of this who just have not accepted responsibility. one of the attorneys i heard saying well my client didn't directly engage in any cheating -- that is not the point. if you are overseeing this stuff and forcing others to cheat, you are just as culpable if not more so. >> absolutely. it is just like a military commander. military commanders don't necessarily always directly observe what their troops do but they are nonetheless responsible and the same sort of responsibility exists here. >> well mike it's just an extraordinary sentencing and extraordinary series of crimes and conspiracy. thank you so much for being with us. >> my honor.
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we want to drill down on a story we first reported last night. the seattle airport worker who fell asleep in the cargo hold of an alaska airlines jet. imagine his terror when he woke up and realized the jet had taken off. everything turned out find. the flute crew and passengers heard him banging for help.
you can hear it in this video shot by a passenger. >> now after hearing that the crew made an emergency landing. plane was in the air for 14 minutes with the man in the hold. it is a bizarre story for sure and it got us wondering about a lot of things including how it was possible for the banging to be heard in the cabin and cockpit of the boeing 737 and what does it look like inside of the cargo hold. we sent our gary tuck man to see what it looked like and he went to see where airlines all over the world store jets where they arnt being used. >> we can't say where it is but we've been access to the boeing 737 and we'll show what you the cargo hold of the boeing 737 looks like. usually there is a ramp but we don't have a ramp but they throw in the bags try to take
good care of your bags because of your valuables, which i suppose. and i'll show what you it looks like inside of the cargo hold. there are two compartments. this is the one in the front near the cockpit. first class right above me and another one in the aft, in the back. where all of your bags go. it is about 30 feet long and eight feet wide. and if a luggage worker is working after a long day, he could sit right here and have a soft bag as a pillow and doze off. and we've conducted a experiment to see how likely it would be to be heard. and now we have dave snell. when you heard this story, did it shock you? >> no. being human after a long day, we could find a cozy spot and fall asleep. >> so it is not stunning to you? >> no. it is not supposed to happen but it does.
>> it can happen. okay. what we want to do. these planes don't have fuel to operate the engines so we want to replicate this noise. eric turn on the tug and give us some noise. so that is some noise to try to replicate the situation when the plane was flying. dave i'll go back inside. and to show you how dark it is because it is pitch dark can you close the door when i get inside? >> by all means. >> okay. give it a close. so now you can see it is pitch dark inside of here. and it is a flashlight. and you can see, but not very much else. so amid the noise, we're putting dave in the cockpit to see if he can hear me. this is the flight deck. so here i am stuck. the plane is rolling down the runway. we're in the air. and i want to get the heck out of here. can you guys hear me?
hey, get me out of here! get me out of here! you hear me? >> can i hear banging. >> so dave did hear me from up top. but if he didn't if my life depended on it i could have kicked harder. it is pressurized in here but it is very tight and very dark. if you are claustrophobic this would be a frightening place to be particularly if you were in-flight. >> and gary joins me now. and passengers heard screams coming from the cargo area. do you know if the passenger could have heard you, if they would have been able to? >> the answer is yes. and we know that firsthand, anderson because we relegated our producer isha and he heard me louder and clearer in the main cockpit because i was directly under first class.
but in a real flight you have pilots busy so it would be more likely that a passenger in the front of the plane would be hearing knocking. so if you hear knocking and screaming, you should tell somebody about it. >> it would be strange for those passengers to hear knocking. just ahead, hillary clinton kicking off her campaign. and could women kick her campaign off. and an investigation on a cnn special report blowout, the gulf oil disaster. an investigation you want to see. natural mulch that holds water so you can grow grass anywhere! seed your lawn. seed it!
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this spring, choose choice twice, get a night at no price at 1,500 hotels. book now at choicehotels.com in iowa hillary clinton hit the campaign trail. her first shop a coffee stop. she bought a few drinks and said hi to locals. and a round table, outside secret service and staff. just 22 people there. here is what she told them. >> i'm running for president because i think that americans and their families need a champion. and i want to be that champion. i want to stand up and fight for people so that they cannot just get by but get ahead and stay ahead. >> well mrs. clinton was vague on policy her campaign aides say more specifics will come later. right now she will crisscross the country at places like
today. we have more from des moines with brianna. >> the only specific policy proposals hillary clinton outlined today was one, to refer to unaccountable money, which was the superpacs and the donors but didn't square with the super- super- super-pac sha these blessed with. but otherwise it was broad strokes to middle class and women. >> it is a question voters might be hearing from voters in the next year and a half. >> don't you some day want to see a woman as president of united states of america. >> shedown played her gender and focused on her experience. >> i believe i can bring a lifetime of experience to this job. >> this time around expect a different message, one she hinted at as she left in 2008.
>> even though we weren't able to shatter the highest, hardest glass this time thanks to you it has 18 million cracks in it. >> and today in a kirkwood community college in monticello she cracked up being a grandmother. >> i don't know how many babies were born on september 26th last year but i want to make sure they all have the same advantage that charlotte does. >> and she supported obama over mitt romney and jaen and clinton could fair even better. in hypothetical match-ups against seven top republican contenders clinton beats each of them by women, more than 20 points. and one of clinton's supporters
webber a junior plans to cast her first vote in 2016. >> i want to hear her talk about views for women and smaller towns and helping america's youth. >> clinton holds a high favorable rating among independent women with 64% having a high view of her according to last month's poll but that doesn't extend to republican women with only 19% seeing her in a favorable light. >> do we know when we'll hear policy proposals and what specifically she's running on? >> it seems like we'll have to wait anderson. i was talking to her top aid and i was told it will be four to five weeks before she starts to put the meat on the bones. this phase that she's in now is very much the listening phase. so i was told by this aid she wants -- hillary clinton wants to hear the ideas and the concerns of a lot of people before she starts addressing them. we do know that her bolsy staff
send the final nuclear deal to congress. the white house supports the bill as it stands now but could reject it if anything changes. and days after president obama shook hands with raul castro the white house recommends that congress remove the island nation from state sponsors of terrorism. the move would be a key step in normalized relations with havana? in nigeria capital, girls and young women marching to protest the mass kidnapping of 300 school girls by boko haram one year ago today. about 50 managed to escape soon saefrp but it is feared the rest have been raped and enslaved and forced to conserve to islam. rita wilson has confessed to having a double mastectomy and reconstructive surgery. she expected to make a full recovery in part because she caught it early and got a second opinion. >> a great lady and talented
singer. thank you very much. up next on the five year anniversary of the bp disaster and the impact it has had on the people and the environment. "blowout: the gulf oil distaster" starts right now. >> the following is a cnn special report. >> massive oil rig explosion off the coast of louisiana. >> a deadly disaster. >> i've never been so scared in my whole entire life. >> families devastated. >> they don't have to miss him the way i do. >> the worst environmental catastrophe in american history. >> the sheen, it went on for miles. >> a nation watches in horror. a tide of oil