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country out here with the real blacksmiths. and the foraging. thank you very much. >> you're welcome. >> and good bye. >> we have to rethink these. [ bleep] >> we have some redesigning to do. this is "cnn tonight" and i'm brooke baldwin. you heard what the jurors said. >> anybody who can pick up a gurngs point it to anybody and shoot them is cruelty. >> and it didn't have to be him. >> right, it didn't. >> tonight, how the jurors reached that guilty verdict and where the defense went wrong. and the man who tlunz jail where
hernandez incident last year and a half. and you have seen black fish. we have the next story about sea wrld. can sea world save itself? >> let's start with the interview with anderson cooper and anderson is here tonight. interesting seeing the different observations they had and what really struck you? >> how together they are as a jury. often you'll hear from one or two jurors i didn't get the sense about these jurors. they took this very very seriously, as jurors usually do and they really -- i think they gave two interviews total. we were the only national one and there was a local news
interview as well. but they are talking obecause they want people to know how serious they were. and to prove the first degree murder in massachusetts, the prosecution had to either show premedtation which the jury said they weren't able to show that or extreme cruelty or atrocity atrocity. >> they have to show premeditation or extreme cruelty. >> extreme atrocity or cruelty. >> so it wasn't premeditation? >> no. i can't say with 100% certainty that he premeditated that while i was sitting in the jury room. >> but you did see extreme atrocity and cruelty? >> i do. >> was it with the number of
shots? >> it was his indifference. and that was part of what i had to look at. and it was even if there was no premeditation, he could have made choices there. when he was there. he was there they admilted that and they could have made different choices and he chose not to. >> i think one thing in that regard that surprised us was the indifference. and we watched the footage from his home after the incident occurred and he was just lounging around by the pool and playing with a baby and just going about his regular life. for us to have knowledge that he was there at the time his close friend was murdered personally there's no way i could just carry on hours later like nothing happened. that's indifference. >> so there were videotapes and
particularly his videotapes. >> we weren't able to use that after the murder to weigh our decision to leave your friend on the ground. going that knowing that he's not there anymore, that he's either dead or going to die. he didn't need to pull the trigger. he could have made different choices. >> do you feel like he did pull the trigger? >> i don't know. there's no evidence to support that he did pull the trigger but he was there. i was instructed to look at that moment. >> he played played a role in that murder and that is what he was charged with. >> and that's the thing in massachusetts that you can be convicted of murder 1 and not
pull the trigger. >> but they definitely felt that aaron hernandez was the ring leader. >> and here they are staring at the man and at times trying to look him right in the eye. >> i thing a lot of them found themselves looking at him in the eye, although i think they got startled by him. and i said, court rooms are very intimate the guy is right there. and i asked them what that was like day after day and week after week. >> i noticed a couple of you have called him aaron and i think people who haven't been on a jury don't understand the intimacy of being in the courtroom where someone is sitting right there. did he look at you?
>> he even nodded to me at one time and it's hard. you come in that room every day and see this person and it's hard to come to that decision at the end because three months with them it's almost like they're part of you and then all of a sudden you have to make that decision to either put them away or let them ge. it's very hard. >> we learned yesterday that he said to his guard, i didn't do it that you all were wrong. when you hear that what do you think? >> my first thought was if we were wrong and if he had something teels sayelse to say, that he should have testified at some point so we could have heard his side of the story. >> and they didn't expect him to testify and they were instructed not to hold that against him, that's the right of every defendant. >> great interview.
thank you so much and you can see more of that interview tomorrow night on "360." >> i definitely want to have you react to some of the juror statements. but you didn't have the murder weapon, you couldn't use the texts from that evening with aaron hernandez. i'm just wondering how much you felt that the deck was stacked against you especially as the deliberations went into day, 5, 6, 7. >> i didn't feel that deck was stacked against us. i felt that we had a strong case and there were a number of pieces of evidence that all fit in the end to warrant a conviction. and i thought we felt the jury was taking their time going through the evidence and
exercising due diligence, which you would want jury to do, especially in a case this serious. there were no questions, i felt that was a good sign and they returned the verdict early wednesday morning. i felt confident throughout trial and deliberations, ultimately some apprehension and i felt we present adstrong case and in the end, the jury agreed. >> we saw how emotional and understandably so those victim impact statements. and i wonder how much their loss weighed on you in terms o ss of seeking justice? >> i think you saw odin's mother ursula very impressive
woman. she was patient, was the leader of the family, at every court appearance. very classy a lot of grace and when she made that impact statement forgiving the people who murdered her son, it spoke volumes about who she was and that's what want to hear but quite an impressive woman. >> it was quite powerful hearing that from that mother there. and also hearing from the jurors one thing struck me is they used the word indifference indifference on aaron hernandez and indifference after the fact when you see him walking around in his surveillance video around the pool with his child and also they talked about having to
prove cruelty and one shot would be cruel enough but six shots. i mean, what do you think those key moments were for them? >> it's fascinating to hear them speak. i haven't heard all of their comments. the jury deliberations, obviously seekcret and to hear them speak, and it's reasonable for them to conclude that it was atrocious. he left the scene, went to his house, seemed casual and then the next day, he's out by the pool as was emphasized in the closing argument it drinking smoothies and holding the baby like number happened. so certainly the facts proved the extreme atrocity or cruelty.
>> and you also didn't prove who pulled the trigger and when you hear from some of these jurors that didn't matter to them. why do you think that is? >> there was strong evidence that he pulled the trigger but what i think and what others think doesn't matter. it's what the jury feels. he had to essentially either pull the trigger or be a direct participant with an intent to kill odin lloyd, which obviously the jury found. so he was liable criminally under either theory. and he clearly -- there clearly was evidence that he was the ring leader, that he made it happen and it was clear he had a grievance with odin lloyd and he knew something and set about the
acts for his murder. >> thank you so much for your time. i really appreciate it. and there's so much more to this aaron hernandez story. when we come back i'll too talk with someone who knows all about his life behind bars. he runs the jail where the expatriots star was. and seaworld says their whales are happy and healthy. but critics say they're unhappy and
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tonight airaron hernandez is at the massachusetts state correctional facility. he will eventually be transferred to a prison outside of boston where he will spend the rest of his life. joining he now, sheriff, who over sees the jail where aaron stayed for a year and 1/2 he was under your supervision for a little over a year and 1/2.
and he lost his father when he was just 16 and you say at times you almost played that father figure role with him. how so? >> i had a lots of conversations with him about his background and i think in a lot of ways he took that as someone to talk to and i took opportunities to present some guidance to him that i thought would be useful. and perhaps going back to his cell and talking to his father and he really only visit his grave site one time and put up a wall to hide the pain. >> do you think he took any of your guidance to heart? >> he did. he eventually not right away, did acquire a picture of his father. and whenever i would ask him, he said i didn't talk to him but i have a picture of him and his father was a very principaled
guy and he was aaron's anchor until he unexpectedly passed away in i think it was a gall bladder operation. and when the father walked in the room he demanded respect, even though others in there really weren't acting very respectful and his hot button around that issue is that when he's disrespected i think he sort of took on that characteristic and when you disrespected aaron, in his mind you were disrespecting his father. >> that's interesting. i know when he left the court house, he was saying to your staff and we corroborated with our correspondent that he was essentially saying they got it wrong, i didn't doit and still had that aaron hernandez swager.
>> well for him to admit it would be for him to pull down that shield that he puts round him. i ran a criminal devision when i was a police officer and he's the best i've ever seen. he's a master manipulator. he pays attention to everything going on and knows how to use his charm get better than anyone i know to get what he wants. and he's good at compartmentalizing. it doesn't feel like he did it the way he carries himself but that's what is interesting about him. he can compartmentalize something to the point where he doesn't make it reality and he pushes it away. when he was at our facility he
talked about how he didn't see it as jail he thought of it as training camp. so in his own mind he pushed those things away. for him to accept responsibility for it would be to break that down and i think if he did that he'd have a very different sort of lifestyle and probably become very very vulnerable which he's afraid to do. >> it's one thing for him to see county jail as a finite time as training camp but for him to go to maximum security prison for the rest of his life. this is a guy who dropped thousands of dollars in strip clubs and partying. how will he be able to take that into that kind of situation? to me it sounds like a living hel. >> for most people it would.
you have to remember he ran into a stadium every sunday and thousands of people were cheering for him, he entered our facility and got new uniform with a lot more numbers and a lot less freedoms obviously, going from a 7,000 square foot home to a 7 by 10 foot home. for most people that would be such a fall from a really incredible place to a desolate very sad life. but for him, he kept his demeanor he compartmentalized it and every day, he'd smile and be as natural as anybody you ever met and if you sat down with him for the first time you'd want to take him home and have coffee with him because he's so warm and out going in his personality. he knows how to use his charm. he's very very good at it. >> don't know if i'd want to take him home and have coffee with him, given everything i
have heard in this trial and that he's been found guilty of murder in the first degree. do you think he'll ever be able to say out loud i did it? >> not until he breaks down that wall he has put up and i don't think, frankly, he wants to do and that if he does do that he'll see himself as vulnerable and reality will hit him smack in the face in a way that he's never been hit before. >> bristol county sheriff, thank you. >> thanks for having me, brooke. >> when we come back tonight, where the defense went so wrong.
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let's get right to it. and joel first to you. to hear anderson's observations when he's talking to all these jurors and they're all referring to aaron hernandez by his first name "aaron" to me is an intimacy they say they all felt while silting in this court room for three months. has this become a home away from home? >> absolutely. a courtroom in any situation, becomes a home away from home. they watch them and know stories or makeup stories about them. and obviously, the defendant, clearly the defense attorneys called him aaron and they pick up on that and move forward with that. they watch the body language and the body language is the jurors were talk of it with aaron
hernandez. what i think is really important is the body language between all of these jurors. >> what do you mean? >> if you watch, there are only four of them that speak out at all. maybe in follow up others speak but not many of them were shaking their heads in agreement with the jurors that were speaking out and while we certainly want to protect the sank sanktity of that jury room, i suggest it wasn't necessarily showing -- >> you're being nice but maybe you're saying there were fighting. and i assume it was a microcosm of what went on but it's interesting your observation about their body language.
and this is what one juror told anderson bute hollywood's version of the courtroom versus reality. >> was it a lot different than you thought? >> yes. >> in what way? >> well you see, you know law and order and all these different tv shows and it's nothing like that at all. it's just very serious. it can be very tedious at times. >> more intense than you thought? >> yes. >> absolutely. >> draining at times. >> i mean people love their law and order and csi. how do you prepare a jury for reality? >> i have to say that this jury was very intelligent. you can tell from their answers that a they really took what they did seriously. i was intrigued by the fact of how they looked and read through
the jury instructions but the questions that they had about motive and circumstantial evidence. all of those issues that lawyers focus on and do as a living, they really got in sort of the three dimensional view of what it's like to be a jury. and they really lived it and lived the emotion of it and that's what we ask of a jury. >> they talked about the victim's family members. i mean how powerful was that to hear from odin lloyd's mother talking about forgiveness. and then you have the fiance and it seems like her credibility with them was lackluster. >> she said she didn't look in the box and doesn't know where she put it. did you find her credible? >> no. >> selective memory? >> yes. >> so you didn't find her
credible? >> not at all. >> why put her on the stand? >> remember something, you're taurk talking to jurors after they can came to a decision. the follow up question anderson asked was do you think the gun was in the box and they said no there wasn't any proof of that and that's what was her answer. they decide their decision was the right one and then when you review the process, it's through the prism of the guilty proou view. and you notice there's only four people driving the voice and in my experience that's always the case with jurors. there's always three or four drivers, who drive the case and
the others are sheep and they may put up a fight but they roll at the end of the day. so it's more important when pike picking a jury to nick three or four drivers. >> and what else jumped out at you? your observations? >> one of the things that jumped out at me was their commentary about the defense in closing arguments making the statementadmitting. >> -- that he was there. to me that's lawyering 101. you don't wait until closing to say, oh, gee, we guess he was there. it's ridiculous. i've never seen anything like that and you think jurors are stupid and don't remember what
the lawyers said. >> you want to jump in. >> it's a little bit more nuance than that. and you have to maintain your personal credibility with the jury. they knew that the jury would find that hernandez was there but they should have done that at the beginning. and then craft the explanation round that. and it's ease to criticize one maneuver out of context. but doing that at the end without having a foundation laid it left it orphaned and the jury what the rest of us did and it made no since. >> we heard about indifference and everything they saw, it sounds like on that
surveillance video really played factors. fascinateing discussion with each of you. thank you all very much. seaworld now, been under fire ever since the documentary "blackfish" accusing them of mistreating killer whales. and how so,as my personal financial psychic, i'm sure you know what this meeting is about. yes, a raise. i'm letting you go. i knew that. you see, this is my amerivest managed... balances. no. portfolio. and if doesn't perform well for two consecutive gold. quarters. quarters...yup. then amerivest gives me back their advisory... stocks. fees. fees. fees for those quarters. yeah. so, i'm confident i'm in good hands.
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people ship all kinds of things. but what if that thing is a few hundred thousand doses of flu vaccine. that need to be kept at 41 degrees. while being shipped to a country where it's 90 degrees. in the shade. sound hard? yeah. does that mean people in laos shouldn't get their vaccine? we didn't think so. from figuring it out to getting it done, we're here to help.
and seaworld is now fighting to survive. >> they're just in this dark metal 20 foot by 30 foot pool for 2/3 of their life. >> ever since the documentary, their stock price has dropped 30% in the last year and now the company is fighting back. with a new add campaign. >> don't believe what peta and "blackfish" are saying. >> this one located here in san antonio texas, it would essentially double the water volume of their habitats. but seaworld's critics also have
new ammunition. they keep killer whales captive purely for entertainment. >> i don't think they should be dancing around to jennifer lopez songs and it's just a circus. >> incidently the circus delivered their own blow. they said by 2018 they will no longer have elephants under the big top due to changing attitudes. j seaworld has defended its programs saying their whales receive world class care. critics would like them to obe put into water sanctuaries. >> this is a bay with a net, so
that killer whales could be on one side protected and cared for and all around them they'd be in a living ocean. but they say "blackfish" isn't there biggest problem, but "blackfish." which explains why seaworld has a new ceo. he has over places like dolly wood and acts like the globe trotters. but it may not be a pr problem. they places like universal studios are seeing growing attractions and they say that should be the focus of seaworld is to focus on the sea life and not a captive
ll unfair criticism. and we have the author of the true story of free willy's return to the wild. and thank you both for coming in pp in. let me begin with you. you talk about it being a glorified circus and yet you were part of it. this was your home. why did you leave? >> it was so hard to leave. for years i was 100% seaworld loyalist and i left ultimately because you see the damaging
psychological effects of being in captivity and they are truly hurting being in captivity. >> i know that seaworld says this that you quit quote, for being disciplined for safety violation involving the killer whales. >> it is factual that i quit after this event happened but it was another trainer's fault and their issue with me reporting it was that i waited to tell management the next day but i still came forward the manager's mistake and i protested formally but i left on medical disability because of years of swimming with the whale injuries. >> you were in "blackfish" and now you say the documentary goes too far. why? >> i was interviewed by gabrielleau for three hours and
she used one minute of what i talked about, which was con congrewant with the film. i brought tillcome to seaworld. i had more situation than all the trainers put together and i explained what happened and it didn't fit with the agenda of the film and so it wasn't use said. and that's my beef is that this isn't a true representation. and we're talking about a while that was not a seaworld whale. >> and why participate in the film? >> i didn't want to originally. it took two days to convince me to participate in the film. i didn't trust the agenda of the film maker but i felt it was better to at least have a voice
than sit by and do nothing. >> part of the news here three lawsuits have been filed against seaworld and they were misled that these killer whales were happy and healthy. and seaworld says this appears to be an attempt -- and seaworld a a it intends to defend themselves against unfair. >> and it's important to say that anybody who is an out spoken critic as seaworld is now labelled as an animal rights extremists and i'm not but that's the way they label anyone who criticizes their practices. >> and we have to talk about this video of you using the "n"
word multiple times. here's a part of it. >> didn't you think that was risky to rip round and say those. [ bleep] things? didn't you say that was risky? >> and then seaworld otold us that we are offended by john's language and behavior. it's reprehenceable since he's wearing a seaworld shirt. we would have terminated his employment immediately and john we showed part of the video it goes on and you continue your use of the "n" word multiple times. can you defend yourself? >> i agree with seaworld's
statements. and you know that saying that word hurts people. i was trying to get them to relay a story and in the story are these racial slurs and we were heavily intoxicated, not in our right mind. i'm all take full responsability of your as and apologize and i did right away but that five minute snap shot of me completely intoxicated, using horrible judgment frrmom five years ago doesn't take away from my experience and when i'm trying to educate people with what really happens with these whales. >> and we saw in martin's piece that they are planning on increasing their facilityies to increase the space but i have to imagine it's a direct resfunsponse to all of this.
>> it has to be. we've been talking about bigger pools since i before i left in 1996. and it's hard not to see that but it's still a good thing. i disagree with this entire -- this is a perversion of reality what we're talking about here. >> what's the perversion? >> i have lived this life. this has been my life as well. i met my wife at seaworld and she had fran14 years there. i was thousands upon thousands of in water interactions. and one single incident between our collective 26 years between the two of us this is not the life that i led or that i saw and these animals are not beasts they have learning histories, there's keith in san diego who's a goof ball.
and this gets lost in the mix but this is not the life -- i can't reconcile with this. this is not what happeneds there. >> we have to leave the there but thank you for coming in and sharing your differing opinions p. and now to a pair of visionaries doing what it takes to and here is a preview of them in "high profits". >> they're parasites. they're praying on our community and our kids and it's going to end badly. it's $100,000 of cash in the back of this car. i bet there's guys in that prison who have done exactly what we did. >> he's going after every resort
town in colorado, his plan is brilliant. >> this is a big boy operation now. >> we were not the amsterdam of breckenridge breckenridge. >> that's when the town erupted. >> i think we have an image to protect. >> the powerful elite has definitely put the pressure on. >> we'll have a target on backs and that is a threat. >> i plan to take my fair share. >> "high profits." on cnn. new york and connecticut. so i just came by to say "thanks." #1, huh? that's great. here you go. a little token of appreciation. oh, that's... that's... that's great... now i'd say you probably need a large. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.
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it's like one more level of stress. being a single parent having cancer you don't know where to turn. >> but that wasn't on the list. >> disability it's 60% of your salary but your bills are still 100%. it's hard. my friend michelle was a single mother of four when she was diing adiag diagnosed and she struggled with day to day. >> when she passed away we knew that there were other mothers who needed help. >> it helps single parents battling cancer. >> you have people you don't know and you're going to help me clean my house? we help them pay a couple of bills and then provide day to day needs for their house. it's about being that support.
it's a lot of help. >> they go out of their way to make sure you're taken care of and for the whole family. neighbors helping neighbors, family helping family. this is what we should be doing for one another. >> they definitely help me with this fight. i have all the motivation in the world looking at my daughter's eyes. >> to nominate a hero go to cnn heroes.com. good evening. thanks for joining us tonight. we know that aaron hernandez has been convicted of murder and today, they speak out. i sat down with the jurors. >> madam forperson -- 9-3-a,