tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN April 21, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
note, don will beack with much more. 10:00 p.m. cnn tonight. you can also follow us on twitter. tweet me @wolfblitzer. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. "outfront" tonight, breaking news. protests erupting right now over the mysterious death of a black man who died days after his arrest. his spine broken. was it police brutality? this is not the first time the baltimore police department has been under fire. more than 100 alleged cases of police brutality in three years, an "outfront" investigation tonight, and more breaking news with america's showdown with iran. american war ships on the move tonight. will it clear the nuclear deal? let's go "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, the breaking news. by the thousands, protesters at
this hour are taking to the streets. they're calling for justice for freddie gray. that's a 25-year-old black man who died days after being arrested by white police officers. he had been in a coma. gray's family says police severed his spine. we're showing you right now live pictures of the protests in baltimore at 7:00 eastern. these protesters as we said thousands at this hour calling for an end to police brutality. they're also holding signs that read "black lives matter." the crowds at this moment making their way to the site where gray was originally taken into custody. at that time police dragged him into a van. he was screaming in pain. let me play that for you. >> ah. [ bleep ]. ah! >> the outrage has been building ever since this video of gray's arrest was made public and tonight, we can report that the justice department has now
launched a civil rights investigation into gray's death. miguel marquez begins our coverage in baltimore. he's with the protesters tonight. miguel what are you seeing right now? >> very much with the protesters. these young men are incredibly angry about everything happening here. literally. [ bleep ] him. >> as you can see, there's a lot of emotion running through the streets here. we are now moving on to north street which is a very big avenue here in baltimore. thousands, perhaps 2,000 people they marched first to the western district police station, and then they marched over to the area where mr. gray was taken into custody. the last time he was seen standing basically, he fell into a coma shortly after and died seven days later. there's one small group of
protesters here. there are several hundred more coming up behind us on other streets. and as you can see, they have shut down traffic in this area of baltimore. so far, police showing great restraint. what they're asking for is for all six of those -- all six of those police officers who were named today to be charged with first degree murder. they say they are going to march on the city hall on thursday. and that at that point -- a little impossible here. at that point, they will take over city hall until they get the individuals arrested. >> now, i don't know how well you can hear me. >> extraordinarily unhappy. >> you have them talking about him being murdered. they're walking by you. look they're yelling the f-bomb left right and center to your cameras. what's the tone? the anger is very palpable. right? this is not as calm as people might have expected.
>> this is gilmore homes section of west baltimore. it's a very tough neighborhood. you see burned out houses everywhere. you see a lot of poverty everywhere. you see food security people can't afford to eat in this neighborhood. there is great, great anger and frustration, and they feel that the police force in this neighborhood doesn't stand up for their rights only knows how to arrest them. in the case of freddie gray for instance the police say he made eye contact with police and then fled and that's what caused them to go after him. in any other city in any other town not probable cause, but in this neighborhood of baltimore, it is and the people in this neighborhood. hello, i met you last night. the people in this neighborhood are sick and tired of it and they want it to stop. this episode, for all the terrible awful things that have happened in this area freddie has lit a fuse has been a lightning rod for this neighborhood. erin. >> miguel marquez, and miguel is out with the protesters we'll
be checking with him throughout the hour. obviously, a very depressed area of baltimore. protesters gathering by the thousands, and as you could hear with miguel they are extremely angry. i want to bring in jason downs out front, an attorney for freddie gray's family. miguel is on the streets right now with protesters. they're angry. they're talking about freddi gray being murdered being killed. they're yelling f-you, they're extremely angry. all right? when you hear that happening, does that concern you? is that a kind of thing you want to hear right now? or is that not a kind of thing you want to hear right now? >> well it's the kind of thing that shows just how frustrated and fed up this community is with interactions between the police and the citizens of this community. they are frustrated. they are also fearful of the police. so the fact that they are carrying these signs, the fact that they are chanting it's a sign of just how frustrated they really are. >> are you concerned, though
about the tone? are you worried? i would imagine you want this to remain peaceful? very much so right? >>ual, my concern lines the the family of freddie gray. there's a mother concerned about the concern of burying her son. there's a fiancee right now that wanted to superintend the rest of her life with freddie gray and she has to bury her future husband. my concern landsies with the family of freddie gray. >> we were going to be joined with the public information officer from the baltimore police department. he cancelled at the last moment. they're dealing with the protests. that could be part of the reason why. i was going to talk to them about why they say no force was used. he's obviously not here to make this case. his point of view the commissioner of the baltimore police department's view is that police didn't use lethal force on freddie gray.
are you going to be able to come up with the proof they did, that they did this they severed his spine and caused him to die? >> well there's no question that there was force used. if you look at the police report they have the audacity to say there was no force used in the arrest of freddie gray he was arrested without force or incident. if you look at the video footage, it squarely contradicts that. there's a man screaming in pain after he was arrested. there was clearly some force used. he wasn't screaming for no reason. he was screaming because there was force used at least by that point where he's screaming on the video footage. >> let me show you the video footage because there's one specific thing they refer to that i think is important for our viewers to see especially as it's getting national attention. the country is watching. you look at the video of mr. gray being placed into the video, police point to this specific frame right here. this is him standing on the back
of the van. right? so they had to drag him, it looked like his legs were not functioning. then he's standing on the back of the van. they say this video frame that we're lookingclearly shows gray using his legs to get in the van? do you agree with that? is it possible gray was refusing to cooperate with police before? that's why it looked like they had to drag him with legs that were not working? >> i have seen all of the video footage, so i'm aware of what you're referring to and it is no question that mr. gray is screaming in agony and screaming in pain. we don't know exactly what happened to mr. gray's legs. the only people that know exactly what happened to his legs are the officers that were handling mr. gray and those officers need to answer the questions as to what exactly happened to his legs. how did he get taken down? how was he actually placed to the ground? why was he screaming in such pain on the video footage? the only people who know the answers to the question are the
police officers involved. >> and that's my question to you. eyewitness testimony, some saying gray was tased. another eyewitness said an officer had a knee in gray's back he was put in a position like a pretzel that they're saying would contribute to the severing of his spine. as we have all seen in ferguson proven in court, oftentimes eyewitness testimony is not accurate. no one is intending to li. it's just sometimes what we saw is not what we think we saw. do you acknowledge some of the eyewitness accounts may not be correct, jason? >> what's really important here is we don't have to only rely on eyewitness testimony. we are able to also rely on what we can clearly see and cleary hear in the video footage. we can clearly see a man whose legs appear not to be functional. we can clearly see a man that is in pain so we don't have to solely rely on eyewitness testimony. we can rely on the video footage and also the fact that the video footage contradicts the police
report that says there was no force used in the arrest of mr. gray and that is squarely contradicted by the fact he's screaming in agony at the point where he's placed in the van. >> and jason, in terms of what happened in that police van, we know that the driver of that van said that they needed an additional unit for him. then they said that around 8:59 on the clock. that they needed an additional unit. it wasn't until 9:54 that a call was made for a medic. do you have any sense of what happened in that 25-minute timeframe? i have a screen up for our viewers to see. 8:59 additional unit was called. medic was not called until 9:24. does that gap concern you or is that something that can be explained? >> the gap is tremendously disturbing. mr. gray was unlawfully districted just a few blocks away at four or five blocks away at best a six-minute walk.
in a police van, it's a two-minute drive or less. there should have been no reason he wasn't at least transported to the western district and the fact it took so long for the police to call for medical help that is of great concern. >> gray's family i know will be at the protest tonight. that's our understanding, jason, unless you tell me otherwise. as you know our reporter you just heard him being yelled f-you, repeatedly that's a few people in one area. possibly just a few bad actors. but nonetheless, that just happened to happen live on television for the entire country to see. what is the family's message to the thousands of people gathering tonight in baltimore to protest? >> the family is grief stricken right now. they are concerned with burying mr. gray. at this point, what their concern is how they're going to bury their son, how they're going to bury their brother. and are these officers going to be brought to justice. that's their primary concern at this juncture. >> thank you very much. i really appreciate your time sir, tonight. thank you. "outfront" next our
coverage continues of the protests in baltimore live tonight. thousands gathering. this is not the first time the police department in baltimore has been under fire. a tense standoff and we have a report "outfront" tonight. plus breaking international news. american war ships in a showdown with iran. could it escalate? people ship all kinds of things. but what if that thing is a few hundred thousand doses of flu vaccine. that need to be kept at 41 degrees. while being shipped to a country where it's 90 degrees. in the shade. sound hard? yeah. does that mean people in laos shouldn't get their vaccine? we didn't think so. from figuring it out to getting it done, we're here to help.
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protests erupting in baltimore over the death of freddie gray the young black man who suffered a severe spinal cord injury in police custody. he went into a coma. he died days later. we have thousands of people gathering in baltimore. right now, they're marching by the thousands to the exact site where gray was originally taken into custody in a police van. i'll show you this key cell phone video again. this is gray. he's screaming here as he's dragged by police. suzanne malveaux is outside, "outfront," out front of the police department. we just saw miguel obviously in a very tough neighborhood. there were people yelling expletives some pushing going on perhaps of his cameraman. what are you seeing? >> well, what we were seeing earlier today is they started where miguel was and headed down
the street just two and a half three blocks from where we are, the western police district. this is where the crowd gathered. there was an incredible amount of emotion over the course of several hours because you had the mother and the father of freddie gray here and the pastor who was expressing a lot of emotion. what i saw here was a lot of people who were chanting together raising their hands, saying this is not a sign of weakness or surrender but a sign of strength. they wanted a moment of silence for freddie gray. i asked many people who were here why are you here? i saw mothers with their babies in strollers. young boys on bicycles. it's like the whole community came out together to make a statement. one person said it is because i'm black. simply because i am black, and this should not happen to someone like this to freddie gray. that everybody matters here. there's a different story for different folks. a lot of people saying hey, maybe there is a racial component to it. there are other people saying we have had problems with
african-american police as well. this is a police brutality case. either way, what you're seeing here and saw earl yewas a lot of frustration, anger, and passion about the relationship that this community has with its police department. and i had a chance erin to talk to the attorney of the family and he says one of the most frustrating things today, if you can imagine, is really talking to the mother and talking to the father. thinking that they're going to have an autopsy report delivered to them to get information about how it is that their son died and to think that perhaps they would, too, get the body of freddie gray. that has not happened. this is something that they feel is even more hurtful to the community. now, we are learning that it's going to be on thursday. they're going tomake their presence known at city hall. once again, the parents and the pastor and the community coming together to try to convey this message that they want this investigation speeded up. they're also going to be doing their own investigation. but this is something that is
really boiling. it's hard to be patient, and this community expressed that today. >> all right, thank you very much. "outfront" now, retired nypd detective harry hawken mark lamont hill host for b.e.t. news and huff most life. suzanne used the word boiling over. we saw that when you looked at miguel marquez on the street. we saw that. you and i were both looking at each other. could this turn into something else inthaz else? they were incredkredcredibly angry. >> we don't want to see violence not just against cnn cameramen, but against anybody. but wree have to understand these men and women are profoundly frustrated. they're angry. this is not an isolated occurrence. if you talk to young men in baltimore or d.c. or harlem you hear these stories constantly. the rare occasion that you ged a videotaped incident is where you can get some legitimacy to a claim you have been making for a long time. >> harry, i spoke to one of the
attorneys for freddie gray's family yesterday. i asked him the question about race. he said, yes, race played a role in this. when you look at the images you have a young black men and white police in the shot. that's the picture you're looking at. that doesn't in and of itself say race is involved but to a lot of people they feel it viscerally that it is. >> that's because attorneys like him are putting that information out there. there is no indication that race is involved at all. it's a black neighborhood. high-crime neighborhood. we're not going to go around looking for white guys to stop when there's none there. it appears the officers had reasonable suspicion to make the stop. when they made the stop last night when i was on another show last night, they were talking about, we had a forensic pathologist who was there. i asked him specifically if an officer put his knee on that man's neck would that cause the injury that the man sustained? he said no it would have to be some kind of blunt force trauma
to sustain an injury to his neck. as you can see in that video where the officers had him down. there's a small wall behind that. okay maybe when the officers took him down the back of his head hit that wall. >> accidentally? >> it might have been accidentally. i don't know. >> well we don't know that. >> i'm asking if it's plausible? >> i don't know. it's definitely plausible. >> right, if they did -- to the point mark is getting at. >> it would take that kind of blow. >> i hear your point. i also hear mark's. if they were to have done that slammed his head into the wall to get him to shut up or whatever they were trying doto do would that classify as police brutality? >> yes, if he was handcuffed. >> even if you weren't handcuffed -- >> i think what's happened is they're involved in the struggle. this is just all speculation on my part here because none of us know the facts that happened in the case. although it is disturbing, you have a 20-minute gap when the vehicle was stopped before they made it to the station house.
i'm wondering what's going on. when they picked him up off the ground he could not walk. then when he was on the van, he was standing by himself. >> that's what the frame are pointing to. they're saying when he's dragged down the street he couldn't use his legs at all, but then when he's on the edge of the van, he's standing up. >> that's my point. there are a lot of -- >> it could be the injury happened in the van with the cops right? >> absolutely. we don't know what's in the officers' heads. you don't know what's in the officers' heads or anybody else's. unless they're saying i'm doing this because your black. but police never grab your head and slam it into a wall and say i'm doing this because you're black. >> you cant make an assumption it's because he's black. he's stopped in a black neighborhood. who else are you going to stop? it's a high crime area. >> that presumes somebody that to get beaten or abused in a high-crime neighborhood. even if everybody is black, you
can still not abuse people. >> i agree with you 100%. i don't think he should be abused. >> but this is suggesting he may have been. >> we don't know that. >> youthening he just had a rare spinal meltdown in the middle -- >> apparently not, but it might have happened in the takedown. it's a possibility this happened in the takedown. i am concerned about the 20 minutes -- >> 25 minutes where they said they needed help. >> had it been a blow with something like a night stick or some kind of instrument to sustain the injuries he did. >> you don't find it curious that even ihigh-crime white neighborhoods it doesn't happen. >> of course it does we don't hear about it. >> every measurable statistic says otherwise. >> when you're looking at high crime areas, black like new york who commits most of the crimes in new york city. -- >> the question -- >> thank you very much. >> that doesn't identifyjustify against
them right? >> you're mixing apples with oranges. >> i'm not justifying any violence. >> the number of people who commit the crime has nothing to do with the number of people who die at the hands of law enforcement. they shouldn't be murraymurdered in handcuffs. that's a red herring. the question here is what -- >> it's just a talking point for your view. that's all it really is. there's no real statistics that actually tell you that white police officers are racist against black men. >> that's not the argument i'm making. >> it sort of is the argument you're making. >> i'm fully capable of making the argument i'm making. black people die at the hands of law enforcement at a disproportionately high rate. this isn't about white officers versus black people. it's about a police force that tends to overcriminalize and overly use brutality against black bodies. that's the concern.
>> there are far more instances where white officers are involved with black criminals. that's why the number is so high. that is why. these officers aren't out there murdering people like you say. >> i didn't say that at we've had one murder -- >> this month. >> in north charleston. >> this month. >> what i'm saying out of the millions and millions of instances of police officers -- >> part of that is because we're actually now getting stuff caught on video. three years ago, we didn't have tat. >> he's suggesting the only person who died at the hands of law enforcement is the one that we happened to catch on tape. i'm not willing to accept that. >> that's your answer not mine. >> you said one. >> we had one. >> on tape. >> we've got to go -- >> let me ask you, do you think that's the only time that happened? >> i cannot look at other cases right now. we're sitting here and i'm
talking about this carbse. i don't have statistics in front of me. >> you can't make claims. >> you don't have them either. >> i do have them. >> where are they? >> this is all verifiable. >> can i see them please? >> i'll pull thel out of my pocket. >> thank you very much. do you think the case in charleston is the only incident of that sort? >> the only one i have seen. >> i'm asking your opinion, do you think it's only one of that sort? >> i don't know. i don't know. you're making it -- no you're making an assumption on your part. >> i'm looking at the trail of dead black people at the hands of law enforcement. >> show me case by case please. i can't say it. >> we have one right now. >> i don't want to go by assumptions. right now, we do not -- >> does it bother you, harry. i see both of your points, but does it bother you just in the past few months, we haveen seen eric garner mike brown, the chase in charleston freddy gai. >> in eric garner they acted
incorrectly. no criminal charges. it's out of the window. >> it's not out of the window. >> it is out. >> the fact is we keep dying. we keep dying of things that are preventable. you think eric garner was not preventable. >> what was the catalyst for all these? >> police officers who use -- police who use excessive force. >> resisting arrest. >> that's absurd. >> that right there is the key of this. how do you see it? is this resisting arrest or is this excessive force. that's the key we have to figure out, the big debate out there. we're going to pause. you're both going to be staying with me as the live coverage continues. you're looking at live pictures of baltimore where thousands are gathering to protest the death of freddie gray. an eyewitness to what happened to freddie gray says the baltimore man looked like a pretzel when the police arrested him. we'll be speaking to him and speak to his spokesman for the police department. he's trying to get on for us despite the protests to answer
the questions about excessive force directly on the program tonight, as the crowds grow. we're live. we'll be right back. i am totally blind. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com.
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we're following the breaking news. protests and anger in baltimore over the death of freddie gray. this is what you're seeing live in baltimore. the 25-year-old black man, freddie gray died after being arrested by white police officers. gray's family said police severed his spine. we have been showing you the protests throughout this hour live. they're passionate. they're incredibly angry. as you saw with our miguel marquez, they say this is a history of police brutality. you saw earlier, though some very angry men, here much calmer mixed crowd. young children. the justice department today said they're launching a civil rights investigation. after this video was released. >> ah! >> that is freddie gray. you can see him here. his legs appear to not fully be working. maybe his left leg there, a little bit, but they're dragging him up. you can hear him screaming in
pain. then he gets put in a police van. miguel marquez is back with us "outfront." he's with the protesters live. where you were just a few moments ago was very tense. there was shoving of you and your cameraman. a lot of swearing. now, what are you seeing? >> it was very intense. look it was very intense. they're marching now back to the blees police station, to the western district where mr. gray was meant to be taken immediately after arrest but it took time to get there. you can hear the motorcycles in the distance. that's one thing that is happening here where they have motorcycles popping wheelies through the crowd, which really motivates them. the crowd has fallen to about 200 people but all of this all of this anger we saw earlier was not directed at me. it was directed at the police and the story they say about how mr. gray died it doesn't add up. >> it becomes illegal to walk while you're black. >> tonight, anger grows. questions about the city of baltimore's version of events in the arrest and death of
25-year-old freddie gray. >> mr. gray was put in the van. you know he was dragged a bit, but then you see him using his legs to get into the van, so we know that he was able bodied when he was in the van. >> it is this video the mayor is referring to but calling freddie gray able bodied? >> that boy's leg look broke. his leg broke. you're dragging him like that. >> as gray is loaded into the van, he appears to be moving on his own. the man who shot this video does not want to be identified says before he started recording, police were physically aggressive with freddie gray. >> they had freddie gray bent up into what i would like to call a pretzel type of move where they had the heels of his feet to his back and then he was still in handcuffs, and then the knee in the back of his neck. >> harold parry lives across the street. he heard gray's initial encounter with police. >> i heard the young man
screaming, get off my neck. get off my neck. you're hurting my neck. then two cars pulled up shortly after that. one car door slammed and then another. and they must have went to him, and he started hollering and screaming a little louder. and the police said shut the f up. >> police say its officers were not rough with gray before he went into the van, just over 40 minutes later though an ambulance was called gray having trouble speaking and breathing. the man who shot this video says gray may have been moving before being placed in the van, but he was anything but okay. >> you could see he was in obvious pain. and then as the video shows, you know you can see that his legs were inoperable, he couldn't use them. >> this is the sort of stuff we're seeing on the street. i'm going to pan off here. motorcycles that are going down the center of the protesters here. popping wheelies for much of that time as well. rather dangerous, but the baltimore police aren't doing
anything to stop it at this point. they're letting the protesters get this out of their systems. we're about a block now from the western district police station where i suspect they're going to plant themselves and stay for some time. erin. >> all right, miguel thank you very much. we're going to go back to miguel as more develops in baltimore. right now, i want to go to a man at the center of this captain erin kawalczk. you were going to be with us at the top of the program. i appreciate you being on the show. they're gathering tonight outside the police department. what do you have to say to these protesters now gathering? at least we understand 1,000 or more. >> we hear you. the frustration in the crowd is palpable. we understand why people are concerned and why people are upset. the police commissioner said it yesterday, the deputy commissioner said it yesterday. we expect people to be upset and have the ability to voice their frustration. the city has a history of
peaceful protests. we expect that these protests will be peaceful as well. we're asking people to stay peaceful and we're going to let people voice their frustrations. we have an obligation as an organization to make sure that we conduct a thorough fair and transparent investigation. >> so -- >> but the people are concerned and we get that and we're going to let them voice that concern. >> all right. so let me get to some of the concerns that they say that they're angry about. this video that we have shown that you hear freddie gray you hear him crying out in pain, is what is appears clear he's crying out in. his legs don't appear to be moving. you have heard this many times now, eric. then he's put into the van. your colleague, the deputy commissioner says there's no evidence force was used against gray. can you say that for a fact? it certainly seems at some point there was force used. >> so we're going to follow the facts of this investigation wherever they go. we have promised to be open and
transparent. we have that obligation to the gray family to get to the truth of what happened here and we're not going to be dissuaded by emotion. we're going to follow the facts where they go. the deputy commissioner said no force was used. all the evidence we have at this time indicates there was no force used no bruising no indication of broken bones. however, that investigation is still ongoing. so if there are winlzs out there that have witness that we haven't had a chance to talk to yet, if there are people who have video we haven't had a chance to talk to yet, we're encouraging them to come forward. we want to follow the truth wherever it takes us. >> so let me try to understand though because obviously, when he was running down the street he was an able bodied 25-year-old man. sure he had a rap sheet, he had drug arrests, his issues but he was able bodied. he ends up in a coma with a severed spine and he died. something clearly happened. so i'm just trying to understand -- i know you're doing a full investigation. >> that's what wi want to get to. >> i get it. i'm not saying you're not doing the investigation.
i want to understand why you seem to be so sure at this point there's no evidence of force, because clearly, something horrific happened to this young man. >> and that's exactly what we want to find out. look the previous history in all of that aside, this is a family that has lost a member of their family. and we have an obligation to them. we have an obligation to our city to get to the truth, to find out exactly what happened here. we have preliminary examinations that show that there was no use of force. we have done investigations -- >> is that an autopsy that we haven't seen yet in the media that you're referring to? >> the deputy police commissioner talked yesterday about the preliminary results from the autopsy that was done that showed there was no bruising no broken bones. but i don't want to get away from the fact that there's a family that is in pain. there's a community that is in pain that we're listening to that we're absolutely committed to allow to protest peacefully to voice their frustration, and we need to let that community know that we hear their
concerns and that we're working as diligently to find out what happened here. and that at the end of our investigation, independent of anything else that's happening, we have asked an independent review board to come in to look at the facts of the case to look at what happened prior to our contact with mr. gray to find out all the facts and circumstances, and while we're in this process, and can think this is important, we're not waiting for the investigation to be complete and we're not waiting for an independent review board to come in as we identify policies and procedures that we're concerned about. we're working to change them. the police commissioner started that yesterday in the press conference when he announced we're changing the way in which we handle people who are injured and people who are transported by our investigation. >> let me get to the issue of transport. there's a laults of questions here on the use of force that haven't been answeredering but on the transport issue. 8:59 a.m. the driver of that van says they need to call an additional unit. according to the timeline that we have at least at this point,
that we have eric we understand that a call for a medic was not made until 9:24. you have a 25-minute period of time go by in which the call was not made. what do you say to that? >> absolutely. as the police commissioner said yesterday, that's a concern for us. that's something that we're looking at. obviously, there is an investigation and i want to be careful about hout we move forward, but that's clearly a concern. that's cleary something that the police commissioner spoke to yesterday. it's part of the reason why we're examining our policies and the procedures we have. we want to see where mistakes were made and how we can address them to insure they don't happen again. that's part of the retraining that the police commissioner ordered to happen across the agency yesterday. >> thank you very much. the baltimore police spokesman answering some of our questions. many many questions we still need answers to tonight. "outfront" next our breaking news in baltimore continues. tensions rising between protesters and police. we'll be back live in a moment. financial noise
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getting bigger in baltimore over the death of freddie gray. this is sapicture, live television. our camera getting its focus. this is right outside of the police department in baltimore. they have a bear.arrier. our reporters have saying the police have been standing back. protesters in some part of town it has been rough, but they have been standing back and letting them protest. you heard the police on our show say they're going to let them have their say. freddie gray is the 25-year-old man who was taken into police custody, severed spinal cord at some point. and this is the unclear thing as to how it happened but he did die in a coma after a few days. tonight, the justice department has said it's investigating gray's death. gray of course screaming as he was dragged by police in that video that we have shown you. this is what is causing those crowds to be so angry, the young men you saw earlier this hour with our miguel marquez on the streets, who were so extremely angry. joining me now is barbara lee, currently a member of the
congressional black caucus the former chair of the caucus. thank you very much for taking the time to be with us tonight. >> my pleasure. >> our miguel marquez was on the street amidst some of the protesters protesterses some of the young men who were very angry just a few moments ago. they were pushing his cameraman, they were yelling so many f-yous we can't actually replay it. this was happening in one area. i know that is the last thing you want to see. how concerning is that though at this hour? >> well first, let me just say my thoughts and my prayers go out to freddie gray's family and the entire city and community of baltimore. this is a tragedy that is beyond even being able to convey my sympathy to freddie's family and friends. you know rk black lives do matter. it looks like in many instances black lives don't matter. i think it's very important to
recognize that the federal government issued data very recently showing that african-american men were shot 21 more times than white men. that's a shame and disgrace. i'm glad that the federal government will be conducting a federal investigation. that needs to happen. protests are extremely important now. it's important that they remain peaceful but i have to tell you, i come from oakland, california where oscar grant, a brilliant young man, was gunned down several years ago. you may have seen the film fruitvale station. the other young african-american men around the country are gunned down unarmed young men. it's time to really come to grips with the fact that in this country, we have to really have criminal justice reform, police reform and allow the peaceful protests to move forward because that's the only way change will occur. 50 years ago, it was young people who were protesting in
selma. my colleague john lewis was one of those. it's the police and dogs and the, you know the state troopers who tried to prevent the marches. so we're 50 years later. there's a lot of work to be done. black lives do matter and it's about time the entire country understands this and young people need to realize that they are going to be part of this change. the street heat is absolutely necessary. it's got to be peaceful and once again, this is such another sad day. >> congressman lee, i appreciate your time very much. congress congresswoman lee referring to the street heat as she called it in baltimore. we're seeing the heat get hotter more and more people gathering. "outfront" next more of our breaking news coverage as protesters and police in baltimore are facing off. more tense situations. we'll be there live in a moment. we'll be right back.
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and raucous than others. moments ago they were chanting "hell no we won't go. and joining me now, mark the baltimore police department just came on the show and they said we're doing a full investigation, we're going to let the people protest tonight and not interfere but every piece of evidence we have so far, including the -- the preliminary autopsy, shows there was no force. >> it is the most absurd analysis. first to say we have to do an investigation and we don't have the facts yet and say to force was used and is a contradiction. the evidence is this young man was dead and he was able to run from them a few minutes ago and a few minutes later he can't walk. there is evidence of force. we don't know where the force came from or how it occurred but there is evidence of force. >> and you would agree with that? he was running and they caught him? >> exactly. somehow this man sustained an
injury that eventually killed him. the problem is we're all going on assumptions now. let's not go on assumptions. we don't want to be convicted on assumptions. let's wait until the evidence comes out and once we know the facts -- personally i want to see the autopsy report. >> right. we all do. now there are a lot of people out there chanting. black lives matter. every single person out there is african-american. >> most of them. >> and that is pretty much what you are seeing. just the point blank question to both of you, would this happen mark if that young man were white and not black? >> i'm going to field the statistics as a social scientist, it is twice as times less likely that would have happened that is an empirical fact. >> harry? >> because the crime in certain areas why it is so high.
i don't think there is evidence to bear that out at all. >> there is. >> and that is from the justice point. [ overlapping speakers ] >> look at the statistics. >> i agree with that. >> i'm not going on a stanford study. a bunch of legals sitting around. but is that really evidence here? i'm a man that goes by the facts and the evidence. we have to look at each and individual case and the fakes and then make our statements from that. >> thanks very much to both of you and we'll be right back. s the time to send in the scotts turf builder weed and feed, man! it kills weeds while it feeds and strengthens your grass. feed your lawn. feed it!
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thank you for joining us. our breaking news. protests erupting tonight in baltimore continues with anderson. >> less than a day after the police chief and mayor tried to get in front of the protests protests offer a man's death in police custody seems to have grown. marches who were driven away last evening by rainy weather came out today in force demanding answers to how freddie gray ended up with fatal spinal cord injuries after being arrested on the morning of the 12th. his mother overcome with emotion collapsed during the march and could not go on