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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  April 30, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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>> police decided they r that they don't want to go that far. >> we are watching this live go down in philly where you can see this big pushing and shoving. coverage of this continues with anderson cooper 360. anderson? >> thank you very muffch. protesters once again out of the streets in baltimore and out in a big way. and one big surprise. the video you're seeing right now is from the middle of a large and at times heated confrontation. there have also been a number of clashes. police have finished their investigation in how freddie gray was injured. the report is in. they are not making it public.
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they are not making it public that gray was transported. they revealed that gray's van made an extra stop. i want to focus on what's happening in philadelphia. poppy is there. we're looking at this overhead view of this kind of ebb and flow between protesters and police. police clearly trying to push protesters back. explain how long how big this crowd is how long it's been going on for. what you're seeing. >> we have been marching reporting alongside the protesters who have been marching for the last two hours. it has been completely peaceful until the last 15 minutes. that is when the group marched down to the entrance of interstate 95. the police had told our producer that they can march peacefully as long as they want but if they try to get on or block the
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highway they will not be allowed on. that is exactly what you are seeing here. the philadelphia police have formed a line on foot and they are bhoking the protesters from getting on to i-95 east. i had a conversation with the chief of police here and he told me this is going to be a loud large, but lawful protest. these are people that need to be heard and he said to me the protesters are citizens not suspects. our job is to keep them safe while they express their first amendment right. there has been pushing, there has been screaming. cannot say if there have been any arrests yet. we have not seen it. >> i want to bring in harry formerly with the police department. it actually doesn't look like a huge numbers of officers there given the size of the crowd.
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what do you make of the police lines that you're seeing? >> i know. that is exactly what i was thinking, anderson. it looks like several hundred or more than that there. maybe more than 50 to 60 police officers. i'm hoping that they have police officers in the background in the event that they need backup. looks like there is us totussling dpoing on. it will be interesting to see what happens. >> poppy, i don't know if you can see it from your vantage point but it looks like there have been a few bottles, plastic bottles, water bottles being thrown. r i have seen two or tree r
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three. >> i saw an important bottle and a big bucket being thrown. >> that's important to know that she doesn't know who it's coming from. there have been a few objects. you're probably seeing from your vantage point about a third of the crowd has their hands up and that's what we have been seeing. many of them put their hands up after that initial scuffle with police after they saw that they're not going to be allowed on the interstate. i said why is it important for you to be right here specifically? she said because we want to march.
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i was told by the chief inspect inspector there was no curfew here tonight that they can go as long as they want to go as long as it is not violent. >> harry it's interesting. you see a number of the citizens who are next to the police have their hands up and sometimes we have seen them talking to police as if to say i'm not pushing and not doing anything but it seems like given the type of confines of the space, even to the people in the front lines are not pushing, people in the back if they are pushing or surging, the people with their hands up end up in confrontation with police. >> there is not much area for them to move. the police officers are, you know having to think of the people in the front row actually trying to start an al interest occasion but it's not.
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as you can see here, you see the movement to the left maybe the police officers have opened an area for them to be able to escape from. >> that's -- >> poppy it looks like they have provided -- looks like they have provided an escape valve to allow the group to continue to move on. do you know where they're now heading? >> i don't. but absolutely they were stuck for the last 20 minutes. part of the line of police has cleared and let them through. where we're walking beside them is basically a frontage road right next to the highway. they have not yet entered the highway. let me ask someone with me. do you know where you're marching right now. i know you are marching and you
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were being held back. what's the goal? where to go now? he doesn't want to say where they're going now. do you know where you're marching right now? >> no. >> did you see some of the confrontations? do you no r -- know? >> it don't make no sense. i don't want cameras in my face. >> understood. and anderson i do want to be respectful. some of the people don't want to be on camera and we will pull away. i will tell you i was very encouraged all afternoon seeing how peaceful these protests were. and then the last 20 min knits it escalated. from what i can see, they are
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continuing on what has been a largely peaceful march. >> the highway that you said they were trying to get on they are not getting on that highway. >> where i am right now is with the majority of them and they are not trying to get on the highway right now as far as i can tell no. >> i want to appreciate your efforts while continuing to follow this if philadelphia.
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hoped that it might be a place of renewal. people don't want to go home and they are waiting for the curfew to start. probably eventually clear this area. and i will tell you that the information that has been leaked out there today, people in this march are not too happy with what they have heard with regards to mr. gray and whether or not the juries are self-inflict self-inflicted. they don't believe that is the case. i think it will be very difficult for individuals to believe that. they said they will keep up the marches. clearly much more organized edd edd than what we have seen in days past. saturday should be a very big rally with lots of activities as well downtown at city hall. all of this putting a lot of pressure on the government to have that report and come up
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with some charges. >> freddie didn't kill his self. >> that's the sense that we get. that mr. gray could not have done that to himself and that is the anger. that is the skonconclusion, it's going to be a problem. >> that information which people thought some information might come out tomorrow clearly the police let out a little bit of information today. i don't know what the intention was. but in theory it could take some of the pressure off tomorrow correct? >> i think that is the police on the side of the government. i think people here there is a great expectation. no matter how many times we say it's not going to happen tomorrow.
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tomorrow. if they don't have justice tomorrow there will be concerns. >> thank you. we are on for two hours tonight. i want to go back to poppy harlow tonight in philadelphia. it clearly seems that the crowd continues to be on the move. what's the scene? d of the workday. some of the drivers are supporting them and some are supporting them. it continues to be a largely peaceful protest. there was a clash back there. it lasted for about 20 minutes. i have not heard if there have
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been any arrests but what has continued is a largely peaceful protest. and that is what police wanted. and it is continuing into the night. there is no curfew. police said they will let it go as long as it is peaceful. there is no specific end goal of where they want to end up tonight. they are just continuing to march together. on social media. about 2,000 people were expected to come. i can't tell you if that many
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people are here. but it was absolutely organized on social media. in terms of why people are here that is important to talk about on a night like tonight. a woman, a white woman, middle middle-aged middle-aged, told me she is here because she loves this city and she feels like there are two cities. there is such an economic inequality and disparity and believes that inopportunity is here and that is what has been echoed here in this march. >> poppy, appreciate your reporting. i will check back in with you to see how this march progresses. we will take a quick break and check in with everyone else. coming up next the facts of the case there's a lot of facts that we do not know. there's a lot that is simply not known. the police gave out more information today.
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police in philadelphia are turning a crowd away.
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protesters are still out in the streets. many of them reacting to one particular report suggesting that freddie gray may have fatally injured himself. the question of how, when and where he sustained his fatal injury remains murky tonight to say the least. what's the latest reporting that you have that you have been monitoring on exactly what happened? there's so much we don't know. >> we do -- the police only added to the mystery with this new information. >> so explain what the police released today. >> the police provided their investigative report to the state attorney's office a day earlier than they said they would. but additionally they said there was an additional stop. they previously said there were three stops between the time it left picked him up and dropped
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him off in jail. they said now there's a second stop which had not been reported. >> and they didn't specify why? >> there is no information about why that stop occurred. that video did not come from police. the driver of the van is supposed to radio in and register every stop. >> so the driver of the van, the police officer who is driving the wagon did not call in and say i'm making a second stop. >> he did not. and so now, you know we're left with incomplete information. and frankly it adds to the distress that already surrounds this investigation because people want answers and now we're getting new questions instead. >> the second stop it could be he wanted to get a drink. it could be there was a problem
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with mr. gray or any number of reasons. >> from what the police have said it shows that the video is not conclusive. it does not explain everything. >> wjla has additional reporting that is getting additional attention. >> they are reporting that the medical examiner provided some preliminary information to the police. we know that police are in the presence of the medical examiner as they are doing the autopsy. it appears to be an injure from a dead bolt. there is a lot left there. we don't know exactly how we get there. could he have gotten the injure
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from thrashing about? we don't know? >> there is a rough ride idea that he was jostling around. but a head injury is not the same as a vert bray injuryvert bray injury. it does perhaps explain breaking his neck. but it does not -- it does not really fully explain everything. >> and the fact that again, pieces of information are coming out some through leaks, some like the police coming forward and saying there is a second stop. >> we have done these so many times and they are often later discredited. >> it's important to point out what we know and what we don't know.
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it certainly raises continued suspicions. people talk for specific reasons and that's really raising a lot of worries. >> especially the report last night from the washington post which appears to be self-serving for the case that freddie gray would have killed himself. on the account of some other prisoner who is separated by a metal barrier that he is reading into this. that is hard to understand how anyone could make that conclusion. >> in my reading of the washington post report whoever that person who allegedly made this report to police the second prisoner in the van, he was imagining what was in the intent of freddie gray which you can't imagine intent based on whatever you may have heard a prisoner banging or whatever.
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>> it reminds me a lot of how we were dealing with ferguson and the drips and drabs of information. >> and we know how so much of the initial reports from there later were not proven in grand jury testimony. forensic scientist of the john jay college of criminal justice. i want to start with you. let's talk about this notion of a head injury that was the factor that caused his death
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according to this report from wjla that something happened inside the van, a head injury that seems to be consistent with a bolt that's inside the vehicle. what do you make of it. we had been believing that there was a vert bray receivered and a voicebox injury. that's not a head injury. you need impact that is forced and concentrated on those bones. i don't believe that a person who is in the back of a police van shackled handcuffed not seat belted in could propel himself against a wall or a
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floor and break those vertebrae. one possibility is he was thrown into the back of the van. he hit this bolt with his head someplace on his head. we don't know where. but the force could have been generated. his weight plus the force. that's one possibility. the other is that the vert bray had been broken earlier before he got into the van. there is still a lot of questions. we have to deal with possibilities and probabilities and so we are also back to the fact that he wasn't strapped in. he asked for medical help and didn't get it. there are a lot of questions here that the police really still have to explain.
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>> there was a second stop that wasn't known previously the driver of the wagon didn't radio it in. where it happened to be stopped. what explains the second stop to you? does anything? >> maybe a store for a soda or something like that. if he was all by himself and the prisoners were locked in the back of the a prisoner van, i don't see him getting out. that is something that we will have to do to make a
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determination. it's really interesting that nobody mentioned this. that's why i'm thinking that the driver is the one officer that didn't make any statement at all. the other five officers may not know about this stop. so it might not be in this statement at all. >> and, i think it's just vital to keep reiterating we don't have the facts. all the facts are not pubically known. the report has been handed over to the state's attorney. that investigation continues. there's a desire on the part of everybody to know all the facts and to try to come with conclusions but that's from a reporting standpoint we cannot make some conclusion. >> we really can't. especially with not having some of the reports to look at. and i think it underscores how difficult it is for this prosecutor. even though the police
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department has provided that office with their recommendations, with the evidence that they have gathered it is very clear to me with the bit of information that we have that there seems to be a lot of conflicting evidence. this prosecutor has to conduct her own evaluation of the evidence and has to conduct her own investigation and it's going to be consider consider difficult. this is far from what we call a slam dunk case. >> what do you make of all of this? it was obviously a criminal act or an accident. the standards are very different. >> the standards are very different and you know at this point when you're dealing with very piecemeal information that is often being put out there by people who have an interest in how this information is perceived and we are still
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without the single most important piece of evidence at all which is the full autopsy report which we will say how freddie gray died. i think it's worth pointing out that the prosecutor doesn't have to simply take the police investigation and make up her mind about whether this case will be filed. she will do her own investigation. she can use the police. she the hire independent scientific experts. yes it's frustrating but it's the beginning of the next step. >> and this could go on for a very long time. but the family attorney has been saying its important that all the eyes are dotded and ts are crossed. >> absolutely.
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if you want to hire a new expert to analyze the expert autopsy, that could be weeks or months. there are experts who could do nothing but analyze powerful experts on people. those expers take their time and there is a lotd. there is more that we don't know than that we do do know. >> what are you saying? >> anderson at the corner of pennsylvania and north, this has been a very nas nating scene.
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you can consider it an argument no pushing, no shoving, no violence. these people justice system. you have got this on one side. people in their 20s and teens venting their anger. now a photo journalist will come here. look at what you have got here. these are five young kids all from the same family between the ages of 6 and 10 showing their side of civil disobedience here. they were walking with the marchers here. now they are here as we head into the curfew. >> we are the future. >> all kids from the same family. tom, come over here. this is a minister. ministries here in baltimore. we see all of these generations. you are leading the march.
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how king was assassinated malcolm x. it comes down to education. you are not saying this because of profanity. it's not the answer. we have educate our people. the church has got to get involved in the community. it has got to get out of the four walls.
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>> these people are very passionate about this silt of this. there you have other sides of it. >> we have seen signs of this throughout the nights and since that violence has drastically reduced we have seen a lot of conversations and there are people out in conversations around us right now. people come and listen and break off and go off with another group and you see that on street corners and streets and communities throughout the communities. we have seen that day after day after day. there is a lot to talk about and a lot to try to figure out how to figure out and resolve. we're going to check back in after the next 90 minutes until
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the curfew begins. we will make out with the family attorney and the drip drip drip of information. we will be right back. constipated? .yea dulcolax tablets can cause cramps but not phillips. it has magnesium and works more naturally than stimulant laxatives. for gentle cramp free relief of occasional constipation that works! mmm mmm live the regular life. e financial noise financial noise financial noise
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>> the demonstration has been overwhelmingly peaceful and the protesters stated theme is philly is baltimore. protesters still out in the streets here as well. emotions still raw. the truth of what happened to freddie gray still unclear. i want to talk about it all.
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there had been a new stop. >> yeah. >> so now there's foir stops. what do you make of that? them coming forward saying that? it's very strange. why where there any stops? >> that was not radioed in. >> very irregular. >> we're also getting drips and drabs of leaks and people leak for specific reasons. people leak with an agenda. what do you make of the leaks that have started to come out? the local wjla reporting about a head injury that mr. gray.
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are you concerned about the drip and drip of information? >> yes. it says that the investigation doesn't have the proper integrity. and it happened before maryland got the information. >> what do you make of -- do you have much confidence? do you have much -- >> i got sick from this. >> i'm sure. do you have much confidence in the attorney who is taking this other? >> i have no reason to. we thought she was going be better and we standby that. >> do you think it was good that the police said look we want it to be transparent. that's why we're telling you
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about this new stop that we previously had not mentioned about. you and i have talked days ago about concerns tamping down expectations chl to you think it was wise? o yo? >> no and i'm not willing to
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speculate. i haven't seen the autopsy report. major. >> i'm not going to say anything about that. >> full disclosure applies to everybody but us. >> that's right. itd seems like a lot of people got that word out there's not going to be a charge. >> people should lower their expectations and not be upset if the full picture doesn't come out tomorrow or if any new part doesn't come out i haven't seen it and i don't know. there is a statutory provision
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that gives us the right to see it first. >> up next we will go back to philadelphia. still marching at this hour. stick with us. we will be back. burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. i'm caridee. i've had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life. but that hasn't stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses... ...stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths.
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some clash with police. a few bottles were thrown. that's the scene that occurred at the top of the hour. let's check in with poppy. where are they now and is it still the same group that you're with? >> reporter: it's still the same group absolutely. a very different scene than an hour ago. that confrontation when some of the protesters were trying to enter. they moved enfrom.
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that i want to emphasize how overall this has been a very peaceful protest. the chief police inspector telling me this would be a very large, very loud but very lawful protest. for the most part it has absolutely been that. you have people from all races and backgrounds telg ss telling me they are here because they want answers from freddie gray. a mother telling me this is her city and they align with baltimore and this is about changing the system and having more of a discussion about economic opportunity and equality for all people. this is coming from a white mother an african-american young woman attorney telling me this is about opportunity. it's the conversation that is
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happening around ball moore but not just focused on the case of freddie gray. >> this has sparked a wide range of discussions as we have been talking about. i want to bring in cnn chris cuomo. describe what you're seeing. >> there aren't as many sifk leaders. they are starting to redirect traffic. they are angry about talking to them earlier about what they see as laying the ground work for a cover up. it is coming out early. the level of information is high at least in this group of young people here but still tomorrow matters to them even though the report came out today. they feel like this may be going the wrong way. the police are also here.
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they are staging. they are in big numbers. you will see the lights up there creating a new station for themselveses to get ready. but in talking to them i asked about the situation as they are starting to redirect traffic and the officers were saying this is a sensitive situation. we understand the frustration because of the information that came out. t. there are not as many people talking to people about what should happen.
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t community leaders are hearing from young people. you just heard chris talking about the group that is out on the street where he is. how community leaders are trying to bring people together and bring people together with information and together in peace. ise financial noise financial noise financial noise
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>> welcome back. we are live here in baltimore. community leaders are organizing peaceful protest. let's take this press conference. >> there's a small crowd after pennsylvania avenue and north avenue that we're watching. there's also a small crowd at mountain pressbury and a small crowd at city hall. so far everything has remained peaceful and we hope that it rae mains that way through the curfew. the northwest district is on impactful alert. the rest of the city is responding to calls normally. if that should change we encourage people to please use the website where you can file alerts with telephone reporting units to ease the burden on the 911 system. we continue to keep resources
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stages across the city. we want to address concerns and take steps to be sure we have resources deployed in the right place. we will be bull horning the curfew tonight. you will hear cars making the curfew announcements. we will enforce the curfew tonight. we are asking everyone by 10:00 tonight to be in your homes and off of the streets. the a.t.f. is offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to the person -- >> announcements being made by the baltimore police. i want to bring in some community leaders. with me is pastors.
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crystal, let me start with you. how are the kids in your school responding to all that they have been seeing? what do they want to talk about? >> the kids want to know why their city is burning. they have questions and kearns and they want to know that the city is going to rally around them and rebuild our community. it's our job to show them that they can uplift our community. kids are standing up now. >> so my younger kids my sixth graders are asking questions around just why.
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oice and really, they feel like a sense of hopelessness. and they are reaching out for help so it's our job to come together. >> how concerned are you about this drip of information? i just talked to the gray family attorney about this? police releasing a little bit of information today. now there are leaks starting out. >> the house of the african-american community has been leaking a long time. we almost feel like we are looking like a raft with no paddle. >> it makes you distrust all the
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more. >> all the more. the whole system seems shoddy when the police commissioner said he would give us a full report may first. rsh is that what you're hearing? >> yeah and more importantly you're hearing that people are frustrated. i have been talking to young people we just want to see positive change and people explain to them that they will not see immediate answers.
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they need adults to help them explain. they do great things every day. we only see them and hear them. >> we see them as multimy mentional people or a character that they have seen. . >> they are hearing this and say brilliant things. they are athletes and scholars. some of them are bred winners in thinker home. they go to school and start taking care of families and more. we have to upleft them. men have to uplift the young men. all of us have to do that. >> yeah. >> do you find -- do you think there's optimism out there that not only optimism but that there will be more change.
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>> it's a growing momentum of optimism. that's why it's now in philly and boston and ferguson. a real movement has come together. it is really a is senator. they are finding out about the system. and they are thinking about bha is the system 67 so young girls are look at harass and say that is what i can do. that's why it's very dangerous for them to be called thugs when in a yoor from now they will have voting capacity. >> councilman thank you. appreciate it very much. if you are just joining us