tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN May 1, 2015 5:00pm-7:01pm PDT
police officers have been charged with the crime they committed. >> my friend. now they'll all want to see whether or not the charges lead to convictions. that is the one big thing they are waiting for. erin. >> the big thing we are waiting for, miguel as we waited for, something that almost never happens in this country. a major question in this country. our breaking news coverage continues with anderson. >> a week after anger boils over in baltimore, people marches as they -- marching as they have all week and marching but in a different spirit than we've seen before savoring a victory as they see it. as you might imagine, others see what happened today with a different mix of thoughts and feelings now that six members of the baltimore police department as you see them there, have been charged with felonies three with manslaughter and one with manslaughter and second-degree murder in the death of freddie gray. the 35-year-old state's attorney who brought the charges herself, the daughter of two police
officers is in the spotlight and on the spot accused by police supporters and surrogates of rushing to justice and have -- having a conflict of interest and she disagreed and something people out here have been demanding, some suspect of accountability. when asked how she believed she will deliver accountability she answered you are getting it. tonight we'll keep an eye on the courtroom and the facts of the case and another on the bigger picture in baltimore and beyond. i want to begin with our jason carroll on the streets of baltimore tonight. jason, a very different scene on the streets of baltimore all throughout the day since the announcement was made today. >> reporter: anderson i have to tell you, several days ago it what a -- it was a much different experience than what we are experiencing here. right now thousands of people
are weaving their way -- watch your back -- watch your back -- weaving through mlk boulevard, weaving through mlk and chanting and honking in solidarity. and they marched past the intersection through peninsula and north. and then they peached past the point where freddie gray was initially stopped by the six officers. then to point where he was arrested. then on to the police station and now it appears they may be marching back towards city hall. i imagine a number of people here in the crowd are going to be very happy to see the booking photos of the six officers released. it is a feeling offee legislation and skepticism as some people are saying this is just one step in the justice process. anderson. >> jason, one step indeed and a
step taken much quicker than many people imagined it would. few people predicted that today charges would be announced. now going to miguel marquez also on the move with protesters. and i was out by the cvs today in baltimore. there was a heavy police presence as well as national guard presence there. while people were beginning to celebrate, i'm beginning to wondering, are there a lot of people on the streets following the protesters but because of the change in mood not quite so monitored? >> reporter: we've seen no police today. we saw some yesterday for the first time and this -- this protest is absolutely amazing. look at this anderson. the truck there that you see in front of you, is going the wrong way down mlk boulevard here. there are thousands of protesters in this crowd. the three different protests descended on penn and north.
hello, hello. three different protests all to pen and north and now snaking toward downtown. literally taking over streets of the city. and everywhere you go -- this. the honking. and everybody showing support there this. it is a sight to see. one thing that everybody i have spoken to has said though just like jason has heard, that today is one day and it is a day for excitement but they are waiting for the possibility of that trial, and what happens to those six officers whether or not they actually serve any time. anderson? >> and the state's attorney pointing out the investigation will continue. evidence still to be gathered. we'll check in with you through the next two hours we're on the air, through the 10:00 hour. richard shipley spoke to reports saying the family is satisfied with the charges today. >> whoever comes to our city a city that we love a city that
we live in come in peace. and if you are not coming in peace, please don't come at all. because this city needs to get back to work. >> reaction from the family tonight. a quick look at how we got here. our correspondent pamela brown has that. >> we have probable cause to file criminal charges. >> reporter: baltimore state's attorney marilyn mosby not mincing words, saying before freddie gray was placed inside of the police van, he never should have been arrested. >> no crime had been committed by mr. gray. >> he was found krarying a knife but the prosecutor said it was legal. >> mr. gray was placed in a prone position with his arms handcuffed behind his back. at this time he indicated he could not breathe and requested an inhaler to no avail. >> reporter: mosby said not only
did the officers not fail to get him help but they made a grave mistake of putting him into the police van. >> at no point was he secured while in the wagon, contrary to a bpd order. >> and while the exact route was unknown, it made the first stop here where officers took him out of the van to put shackles on his legs and flex cuffs on his wrists. >> the officers loaded him back into the wagon, placing him on his stomach head first on the to the floor of the wagon. once again he was not secured by his seat belt into the wagon. >> reporter: the officer driving the van made another stop here. >> despite stopping for the purpose of checking on mr. gray's condition, at no point did he seek nor did he render any medical assistance for mr. gray. >> reporter: several blocks later he stopped for a third time and three other officers arrived to check on mr. gray. >> mr. gray asked for help and
indicated he could not breathe. the officer porter asked mr. gray if he needed a medic and mr. gray indicated at least twice that he was in need of a medic. >> reporter: mosby said they did not call a medic and failed to seat belt gray. the van's driver decided to move on. at the fourth stop they picked up donte allen who was put on the other side of the metal partition. >> the only thing i heard was banging. i tho was banging his head or something. >> mosby said he was again neglected. >> porter and white observed him unresponsive on the floor of the wagon. >> but 25 minutes later when they received the police station that a medic was called. at that point he was in cardiac arrest and not breathing. the medical skaum inner decided
it was a homicide. >> he was handcuffed and shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside of the bpd wagon. >> all six officers are facing criminal charges including assault and misconduct and the van driver is carrying a charge that could carry a sentence of up to 30 years. and some of the officers say this was a rush to judgment and will fight. >> >> and all six officers have posted bond. and there is a lot to talk about. sunny hostin and a former prosecutor and friend of the mayor, stephanie raulins blake. and harry houck. >> and jeffrey toobin.
you did not expect these charges today. what do you make of them and the severity. >> these are serious charges. she better be right. she better have the back-up to win the cases. and it will be a challenge. buzz you have a lot of -- because you have a lot of defendants and you'll have to assign individual responsibility and describe the role of each one. so far it appears none of them are cooperating but that is something to keep an eye on them whether any of them cuts a deal and testifies against the other. >> is it possible that some of the charges were brought in order to coerce somebody -- one of them or several of them to cooperate against others. because we've already seen the person who -- who is deeply connected to one of the officers who i interviewed, that officer was already pointing the fingers at arresting officers as having caused this injury and that officer believed -- and it is
not as if there is a united friend. >> and officers will try to exploit that. and when there are divisions, there can be a race to the prosecutors' office to cut the first deal. because the person who comes in first gets the best deal from prosecutors. but that is getting ahead. i'm particularly surprised by the murder charge. >> for the driver of the wag -- wagon. >> yes. because that is intentional harm inflicted on someone and i think it is a real challenge in the absence of some sort of admission, where he said something to someone to make a charge like that stick. but when you think about what it was like for freddie gray to be trussed up like that and to be bouncing around with his head exposed, it is a horrific horrific thing. and if it was done in a criminal way, these charges are going to
be very tough. >> and sunny, because the state's attorney would not go into detail into the evidence of the ongoing evidence and because of the upcoming trial, we don't know the full detail or the medical examiner's report which would give a better sense of what happened to mr. gray inside of the van? >> i think that is right. we don't know everything. although i will say i was surprised that the state's prosecutor was comfortable enough with giving so much information. because investigations are basically ongoing, even when you've already charged someone. so the fact that she is now tied to the narrative she gave to the world that, was a bit surprising to me. it must mean she is very -- very convinced of the probable cause here. it must mean she has an exceptional trust in her investigators and perhaps that is why she came forward so early
with these charges. because we now know she was conducting this independent investigation with investigators in her office as she explained, from day one. and so perhaps that is why she did this so quickly. >> harry, the police you called this an egregious rush to judgment. >> without a doubt. it is really interesting, but thursday -- or the other day when the officers turned over the investigation to the state's attorney's office everybody was talking about how nothing will come out on friday even the state as attorney's office was talking about it and then on friday it comes and then we have the charges and they are arrested. now the friday deadline was a big thing in baltimore because everybody was scared to death of riots so what might have happened and i'm not sure 100%, but maybe they figured, well let's charge them any way. let's charge the officers -- >> to bring peace to the
streets. >> right. and then we'll see if we get an indictment. >> do you believe that? >> if that is true that is hugely irresponsible. you don't file criminal charges for any other purpose than -- that you think that you have a race you can make. and harry, have i to say -- i have to say, unless you have evidence of that -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> sunny, there were people that i talked to in baltimore today, many were elated but some believe it was influenced by the violence in the street and the speed with which this came about and it was a desire to kind of calm things down? >> i don't think this is a fair criticism. agree with jeff. prosecutors don't do that. a prosecutor has a duty under the law to only bring cases you believe you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. and let's be clear f. she has been conducting this independent investigation on her own, i don't think it is fair to say there i was rush to judgment
because this was never a who-done-it case it was about what happened. >> i want to bring in professor kobilinsky. the medical examiner part we have not heard it based on the charges, you have learned anything more based on the severity or the nature of the charges? >> first of all, we have a murder two charge. and i agree with sunny, it is highly unedge wal to charge if you don't have enough evidence to convict. but what we do know and if you don't have an autopsy report we do know that miss mosby said the cause -- or the manner of death is homicide. and that means death at the hands of another person. it doesn't mean that it is murder. you can have justified homicide for example a police officer shooting in self-defense. this is what medical examiners
do, they make a decision based upon the autopsy and police investigation and based upon all kinds of information that comes together deciding whether it is an accident whether it is a homicide or cause unknown. >> sunny, it was interesting to have the state's attorney go through point by point, officer by officer, not only describing the charges against the officer but basically what she believes was their failing during this arrest. not only what she called an illegal arrest because he didn't have a switchblade which the police early on reported but she detailed failures by each police officer all along the way. >> that is highly unusual. and not only just because we typically don't see it because prosecutors don't want to be tied to that kind of native when you have an ongoing investigation and it is unusual because under maryland law, our code of ethics maryland attorneys, you are prohibited to
give that sort of pretile pub -- pretrial publicity and as a chief prosecutor it is chiefly not done. so i suspect you'll have some challenging her and asking her to recuse herself to being so vocal and provocative about what she thought the evidence was in this case. >> we'll continue the conversation through the next two hours. but coming up next more on who the six officers are and what they are facing and at the end of a week in baltimore and throughout the country. more from the streets ahead. three cylinders, 50 horsepower. go bold. go powerful. go gator. (music) boys?
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we are here with marches on prat street. jason, what are you seeing? >> anderson basically, when you see everything happening here thousands of people who are now passing charles street and prat downtown you are hearing from voices who feel for generations who haven't had a voice, people who felt disenfranchised not listened to abused by police departments grandmothers and grandfathers telling their children feeling this way. i spoke to one person who said i finally feel like people are listening. we marched now for five miles and how much mar can we go. and she said i've waited for a night like this all of my life. and if you look up prat they
are still a thousand strong. and i put my photographer on the truck in front of me. i know we're coming up on a curfew at 10:00. still remaining a question in terms of whether or not people are feeling so much elation will decide to go home at 10:00. in the meantime anderson we'll keep marching right along with them. >> and we'll keep checking in with you. we wand to expand on the six officers and what they are facing. the four charged with manslaughter and murder have a lengthy procedural road ahead of them. none of them have it easy. all vix is now posted bond. for more on what we know about them drew griffin joins us now. drew what do we know? >> collectively this is so serious, they are collectively facing up to 173 years in prison. as we've been reporting, up until the time of the booking we didn't know the races. now we know three of the officers are white and three are african-american including the driver of the van, anderson who faces the most serious of
charges, cesar goodson, jr., 45 years. been with the department since 1999. only six charges, including the sirg murder and manslaughter. that is a possible 63 years in prison for this officer. also facing six charges, the most senior officer involved with the arrest lieutenant brian rice. 41 sand white with the baltimore police department since 97 and been involved in a nasty domestic situation with another baltimore police officer, a couple fighting over custody. and the mother calling police and they removed weapons
including his service weapons and was driven to a hospital. and now rice facing involuntary manslaughter and another possible sentence for him. and then the bike cops originally arrested freddie gray much younger. edward nero 29 years old and white on the force three years. five charges, the most serious assault, in the first-degree. garrett miller 26 years old and also white. it was miller and nero frisking freddie gray. they claim this is when they confiscated a switchblade. they claim this gave them reason for arrest. there is no reason freddie gray should have been arrested at all said the prosecutor. for that reason miller nero and rice are charged with false imprisonment. porter 25 years old, black, and
hired in 2012 three charges, including involuntary manslaughter and sirg -- second-degree assault. and including alicia white, the sergeant three charges. and none of them have been charged with any failure of duties in their past. anderson back to you. >> and joining us mark gehrigo and david clinger, mark earlier, i think sunny said it would be unethical for the state's attorney to bring charges she couldn't prove and i heard your house in the back of my head saying that is absurd prosecutors lob on charges in order to get somebody to roll on to somebody else. do you think that would go on. >> i wish sunny was here so it wouldn't sound like i was piling
on her and so it wouldn't be her naivete. and ideally they have looking for the driver or the younger gentleman who you just talked about. >> and you believe the driver has the most serious charges? >> i do. i think they are looking to get him to rog -- to roll on the other officers and to blame him. that is what you want to see if you are a prosecutor. and that press conference with the prosecutor was unethical. it violates the ada rules and the state rules. >> because of the level of detail. >> right. you can't give that level of detail. if that were a defense lawyer that is a prima facie violation of the rules. and how quickly the prosecutor made a decision in this case this is not quick.
imagine if this were a civilian who kidnapped somebody off the street and threw them in the van and gave them a rough ride and they died the police would take that to the prosecutor and say they died and it was a kidnapping and i'm going to file charged and this is in essence a kidnapping. >> and david, a more experienced officer, a caucasian, it is difficult to paint them with a broad brush, do you think there is likely a division between the officers. and the officer that i interviewed, he was pointing the finger at other officers he said it wasn't in the van, it was probably in the arrest. so do you agree with mark they are trying to get one or more of the officers to start to roll on the others? >> absolutely. and it is not just something that goes on in prosecutors in terms of criminal charges against police officers it is something internal affairs do
when there are internal affairs investigations. and when there are multiple charges, and it is clear that mark is correct, there is a prosecutorial strategy. and the notion of the false imprisonment they didn't have probable cause to arrest we are going to charge them with a crime. so every time a police officer in balt makes an a -- baltimore makes an arrest and they go to a sergeant, do the narco band test and do the test to see if it is marijuana, now we are going to take it to the prosecutor attorney and you're going to be charged with a crime. this is going overboard on the issue of unlawful imprisonment in my opinion. >> and it is interesting. and mark and david, those of you, it is interesting to see both sides. you are saying there should be an independent prosecutor and
because of the compromising issue of the state's attorney and that is the same position that those who supported mike brown in furg were saying about the prosecutor there. >> that is exactly right. and one of the things you will see is more due process given to the officer defendants than you will ever see to civilians. you'll see just unbelievable difference in how the criminal justice system works. down to right now the fact that they are in and out and bailed immediately. this call for an independent prosecutor the only way you solve the problem and it is not me who come up with this the writers have done it you can't have the same departments that are working with these -- or the prosecutors working with the departments making the decisions. it is just -- there is a tension that you just can't get around. so there has to be a solution that involves somebody other than the department that they normally will take the criminal fielting to -- the filing to
the prosecutor and -- >> in furg you had mcculloch and he had a connection with police family connections and also here the family connection with freddie gray. >> and so we'll take you inside of the van where freddie gray sustained his injuries. difference for yourself. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating
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people celebrating on the streets of baltimore. right now we've seen the baltimore police waggan where freddie gray allegedly received his injures from looked like. and now we'll see it from the inside. and we'll look at it from the watch commander at dekalb county. and can you just show us the back of the van, how that may have been possible if it was, in fact possible. >> here is what we know for sure.
if you are handcuffed and your legs are shackled and not seat belted you are very vulnerable. this is a dekalb county georgia, van. and the normal protocol,ize handcuff someone. and we are playing the prisoner. you go in and you sit here and put on the belt. i you -- you put sont belt. >> always. >> in this case we know the seat belt wasn't put on. and what we know from the statement is after the first stop they re-handcuffed him, they put him in front -- not behind his back and they threw him on his stomach face first. i won't go face first so i can show you, but he's smaller than me and if you are lying on your stomach and with your legs
stackled is there any way to get -- shackled can you get up? >> it is almost impossible. >> and so this is theoretically what happened. he could try to get up and if it is bouncing up and down your head hits the metal. and that doesn't hurt but i'm trying to show you. and there is a possibility that he could have hit a bolt. and this is theoretical. and there is an indication there was somebody on the other side. and even if you are shackled you could yell. and go inside of here for a second. lieutenant can you hear me? >> yes. >> and if you are up front, can you hear me? >> i can.
>> and are you listening for people back here? >> yes, we are. >> so we don't know exactly what happened but with you do know that he was lying on his stomach and it is very narrow and there would be no way for him to get up and if it was a rough ride he could bounce back and forth. >> lieutenant i've heard from somebody who is close to a baltimore police officer, one of the six, say it was common practice not to seat belt because if there was concern about getting spit on or bitten is that -- i mean in that van, there is not a lot of room for a police officer to maneuver if one is concerned about somebody being arrested lashing out at you, right? >> that is correct? >> so when you are -- i mean you said it is policy to buckle somebody up but there is a potential of getting head-butted or spat on or something like that? does that happen? >> that is possible. hufr if you have more --
however if you have more than one person trying to negotiate with the person or if the person is possibly violent or whatever the case may be we'll use whatever amount of officers it takes to get the person handcuffed -- i'm sorry get the person seat belted properly or if there is a situation, where the person has to lie down on the floor, there is a supervisor that rides with the person to make sure that the person doesn't receive any injuries or that person can be monitored. >> so you would actually put somebody in the vehicle to monitor them. i appreciate you being with us. gary tuchman as well. we're just getting word and live word of demonstrations outside of city hall. as we watch that. let's go back to professor kobilinsky and dr. biden from the john hopkins university and our neurologists. and dr. kobilinsky they said
the injuries occurred inside of the van but how do they rule out it could have happened outside? >> that is a good question. and i think she has locked herself in. i think it is possible if not probable there was an in ishl injury that took place upon the struggle -- the struggle and the arrest that could very well have fraktdured the vertebrae and what damage took place in the van, that could have been the severance of the spinal cord so i think she has locked herself in and this may come back to haunt her. >> and freddie gray was in cardiac arrest by the time he received medical attention. could he have survived if he received medical attention sooner? can one say that? >> i'm not sure within a hangman's noose, where the spinal cord is severed,
sometimes the attending physician has to wait several minutes for the heart to stop so yes, there is a point in time when that can occur. with christopher reef he had someone there right away able to breathe for him, even though he had the severance of the spinal cord. >> and dr. biden, the fact he was not wearing a seat belt handcuffed and legs shackled is it possible to think of a scenario where he could have received the same kind of injuries had he been placed in a seat belt? >> the thing that is very difficult for me to answer this is is because i don't know the facts of the case and if you would excuse me in general, if you think of spinal cord injuries they are caused by motor vehicle accidents, by falls, by trauma or by violence. we only have one report of a
self-inflicted spinal cord injury and that is out of japan. but most of the time the spinal cord injury is a result of a trauma that can happen and seat belt do save lives. >> and dr. by don he asked for an in hailer during the van ride could that be related to the spinal cord injury? >> again, mr. cooper i won't comment on the case but i can tell you, as dr. newman said the spinal cord injury can manifest itself or cause respiratory problems because the respiratory drive is in the brain. however the respiratory nerves that takes the respiratory muscles are around c-3, c-4, c-5 and it can lead with difficulty with not the drive to respire,
but the respiring and the muscle to respire and it can cause spinal cord injuries. >> if there was a head injury and a head was banged into a wall or banged forward if the vehicle stopped short, you would assume there would be bruising and something that would show up in the medical examiner report. >> would you think that would be -- i would think it would be correct but it would be far fached that by hanging one's head against the wall it would fracture a vertebrae. you would need force to do that. >> and the space around a neck, it is very small and you are nor susceptible than the back can you explain that? >> yes. inside of the bones of the neck as a whole, much like a donut, and the spinal cord which is very large at the top of the spine as it comes out of the brain, has very little spain
maneuver out of the our yeah as opposed to the lower back where the hole is larger and the spinal cord is very small. so anything that causes compression of the spinal cord much like stepping on say hose it stops the flow it is much easier to do at the neck than in the lower back. >> dr. biden, thank you, and dr. kobilinsky. i'll talk to those activists trying to keep peace in baltimore this past week.
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demonstrations there at city hall. let's let's check in with brian todd that is there. brian? >> reporter: anderson this march has just stopped here at city hall. we're not sure if this is the end of it. some of the march leaders are up there on the elevated portion here and speaking to the crude. the crowd is starting to fill in. our photo journalist is panning around to show you the crowd. this crowd has set an endurance
record for the marchers after freddie gray's death. it is the longest haul and went the further. started at the inner harbor and up past the central booking facility and then past pennsylvania and booking and we thought it would stop there but they kept on going and went past where freddie gray was arrested and booked and now much are not -- many are not satisfied and they are waiting to see what happened next. >> and now joining me malleck morris it is good to have you on the broadcast again tonight. and these officers facing criminal charges, what is your reaction and to those who you are spoken to today.
>> thank you for having me today. i think it is similar to having ordered something off the menu and it is between the time that you ordered something off the menu and it arrives. i believe we are still waiting on a conviction not just an indictment. >> it is interesting malic, when i was by the cvs today or after the indictments has been read out, there did seem to be a festive atmosphere on a sense of relief on the part of people i've talked to is that something you are hearing and feeling on the streets today? >> definitely. when you have hundreds of young black men who have been victims of the rough rides that police departments call them and nobody has been convicted or nobody has been charged rather since then the fact that we have a courageous state's attorney in marilyn mosby able to press charges is a reason to celebrity
but not to celebrity too much because we still have work to do. >> today the congressman elijah cummings has sent a message that she treasurers every -- treasures every life. do you believe that is a step in the right direction. >> i believe that is a step in the right direction. i would like to see that on a more mock -- macro level. not just in baltimore and one courageous prosecutor. i would like to see more care about the health and the welfare of african-americans. >> are you talking about african-american males in particular or in the criminal justice field or in a larger sense? >> no no no. anderson. i applaud all that you do and you are a common sense guy.
i'm talking about macro level on african-american level, since we were captured and since we got here and captured since we got here and since jim crow and everything else and current jay and freddie gray and freddie gray and mike browns and everything else and massive incarceration and on and on and on african-american people have beeno pressed in america and it will -- oppressed in america and it will take all of american citizens to take this common sense rally point, we want freedom and we want to end oppression for african-americans today. >> in terms of this just being just freddie gray and i'm not saying just freddie gray as if what happened to freddie gray is not just focus enough but so many of the people i've talked to in baltimore said this goes beyond the tragedy and horror of
what happened to freddie gray what would you like to see moving forward. jay talked about his vision. what would you like to see? >> i would like to see a lot more transparency when we have relations between the community and the government. because oftentimes a will the of -- a lot of what we call justice is just us and that is behind closed doors. and we see a tremendous loss of justice. we're not talking about just white elected officials, just because you are black doesn't mean you're exonerated from accountability so we're asking for more transparency and more like nick and marilyn mosby who know the community and are not just legislating something abstract and know something
about us. >> thank you for your comments as well. >> just ahead, more reaction to the six police officers being charge in the death of freddie gray. [meow mix jingle slowly and quietly plucks] right on cue. [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow...♪ it's more than just a meal it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. thank you for being a sailor, and my daddy. thank you mom, for protecting my future. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are thankful for many things. the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. our world-class service earned usaa the top spot in a study of the most recommended large companies in america. if you're current or former military or their family, see if you're eligible to get an auto insurance quote. constipated? .yea dulcolax tablets can cause cramps but not phillips. it has magnesium and works more naturally than stimulant
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looking at a lot of live people listening to speeches and holding signs saying justice for all and wearing t-shirts saying do better. and they are here and hoping going forward there will be one step toward justice and they will keep marching peacefully. one of the protesters getting up here and saying this is proof baltimore can come together and have their voices heard. anderson. >> jason, we'll check in with you through the next hour. we are live through the next hour. we'll be right back. a short break. ob] so we've had a tempur-pedic for awhile, but now that we have the adjustable base, it's even better. [evie] i go up...heeeeyyy... [alex] when i put my feet up on this bed my stress just goes away. [announcer] visit your local retailer and discover how tempur-pedic can move you.
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good evening. 9:00 p.m. in baltimore. the city hall thousands of people marching there. the curfew just an hour away. people still throughout the city. a different kind of outpouring than we've seen. in the mood different, because six police officers have no but charged in the death of freddie gray. including the driver charged with murder. all six out on bond. those out on the streets, happy with the decision of mosby sand some questioning her. and we'll go live first with miguel marquez outside of hoyte
hall. >> reporter: when that state's attorney spoke today and brought the charges, i think you could hear the collective jaws across baltimore dropping and hitting the ground. right now going on very touching you're hearing person after person taking the microphone take -- and telling their story. you are hearing about how they were abused by the police or their father or mother or brother or cousin tonight. this is the biggest march i've seen and it is the most diverse as well. whites, black, old, young, people from all over the country as well i met today. and three different marches came together at the epicenter, penn and north, marching here to city hall which is a great symbol for this protest and now sort of a celebration. the one thing you hear across this city though is that despite
the charges and how happy they are today, they are not altogether certain that the court process, the legal proceedings will treat them the same that anybody would be treated if they were in the same situation. >> miguel we'll check in with you in the next hour. the latest on the investigation. because it is still on going and everything going into the charges. and can you tell us into what into the investigation, miguel? >> in the case of the medical examiner's office that turned in their results today, they said they put resources into this investigation, more than anything else simply because they knew the public was watching. in the case of the state's attorney they brought in outside experts, they didn't depend on what the police were doing. it was quite a surprise when the state attorney this morning said that all along she had been
doing her own investigation. she brought in the baltimore city sheriff's office to help her. in fact they are the ones that served the warrants to the arrest of the officers. so it is quite extraordinary circumstances for this investigation. >> and evan the six officers involved that posted bond what do the next few days hold for them? >> well they are home now. or on the way home. they can spend the weekend with their families. the mayor today said they will be suspended and now they are getting ready for trial. and they are hiring lawyers and getting ready for their own defenses now. what will be interesting, anderson is how the legal process starts from here. whether they -- you have officers who flip and decide they will turn on each other because obviously there are some that are charges with serious crimes murder that could get
them 30 years in prison and others that have much lighter charges. and those people have more incentive to turn against the others. >> evan. appreciate your perspective. >> and joining me professor kobilinsky and jeff toobin and sunny hostin. and sunny a friend of the mayor. and these guys are not of the same unit and ride around together and have allegiance and one shows up because they drive the wagon but the likelihood of one of the officers at least turning on the others that is very real. >> that is very real. and a good point for the prosecution. but one is to establish motive. why do they want to do this to the guy. the driver charged with the most
serious crime, what was his relationship. had he even had any contact with freddie gray because he is on the other side of a divider. why would he engage in this sort of conduct? that is -- maybe it is just that the baltimore police -- this is how they treat black suspects and that is the motive. but the prosecutors are going to have to establish a story for why this story unfolded the way it did. >> and jeff's story is important. because the driver of the wagon in the video doesn't seem to have any real interaction with mr. gray as he's being put in the wagon and it is left up to -- i believe he opens the door and then i think he goes back to the front. wagon. i think it is the other officers who choose not to buckle the seat belt. it is not clear that the driver had any actual interaction or physical contact with mr. gray
and so if that is in fact the case and given the charges against him, it would seem to be the idea of a rough ride is the way the state's attorneys believe the injuries occurred? >> i think that makes sense, this prosecutor will have to prove this wreckless disregard for human life and it was an in tengal -- intentional disregard and so depraved so i suspect we'll have a lot of the rough rides and if you are the prosecutor you have to talk about the history of the rough rides and what that means and it will prove the driver knew about the rough rides and perhaps if the driver knew that this -- that freddie gray was not belted in. it is not the easiest case quite frankly to prove but given the fact that i'm hearing around baltimore from people that i've
spoken to they've received rough rides and this is something that was done within the baltimore police department i suspect that is where this prosecution is going. >> and jeff and drew griffin looked at this report and if we haven't found anything yet and if there is no history of this driver having done this before and unless there is video evidence or some gps evidence or surveillance camera evidence of wide turns around corners or erratic driving, it could be a tough case. >> and i think sunny previews a legal fight that might take place at the court. i think she is wright that the prosecutors want to introduce evidence about rough rides, about patterns of behavior in the baltimore police and the defense will say, you can't introduce that into evidence, there is no proof that my client the driver had ever done this before. you can't establish a pattern without showing that my client the defendant, is even aware or
has done this before. so those are the kind of fights that are likely to have in a trial. >> and the prosecutor today is asserting that freddie gray received or suffered a fatal spinal injury while being transported but that doesn't mean he didn't sustain injuries while being arrested. >> i think that is right. it sounds like the prosecutor has ruled out that any injury occurred during the arrest and can't understand what the basis for that is. perhaps when we see the autopsy report and we hear about x-rays or mri's or cat scans and see evidence of damage to the vertebrae, then maybe a case can be built, it depends on a compression of the vertebrae or -- i mean we are trying to find out what happened to mr. gray. was his head pushed back during
the ride pushed laterally or a hyperextension. >> and the medical examiner could identify that. >> by looking at the vertebrae and the fracture pattern, they should be able to determine exactly what happened to the head relative to the neck yes. >> and we've seen the video many times of -- of mr. gray being put into the wagon. he does appear injured in that way. now whether he's actually very seriously injured, that is something that we don't know. but you could see the defense saying look he was injured earlier. you can't blame us for what went on in the van? >> sonny, mark geragos said he believes prosecutors overcharge in order to force some sort of a deal force somebody to roll over on other defendants and he believes that is the case here even in the case of the driver maybe why the driver has the most aggressive charges in the hopes that he might roll over.
do you believe that? >> well of course mark geragos said that. i don't believe that. i don't think that is a fair criticism. when you look at the evidence or the allegation that this prosecutor put forth, i think actually there is support for every single charge. i mean we're talking about manslaughter by vehicle. these charged the driver with this and there is support for that. and she's charged him with second-degree murder and charged him with that. and misuse of office and support for that. and while certainly there is a breath and depth of that but i don't think it is fair to prosecutors that there is overcharging here. and that is a criticism that prosecutors get all of the time and that is just not a fair criticism. >> i think the prosecution might be somewhat different. i think they might be looking
for the lesser culpability, for those officers to flip. the ones who may have only seen things and weren't as seriously injured -- involved in the injures -- injuries they are the one that will flip. >> thank you, we have to take a quick book. when we come back as the curfew approaches the ride in the van and how this may play out in court. and with the curfew still out there and hundreds still out, how that may play out. why do we do it? why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's
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again a large gathering tonight at baltimore city hall. a large of maefrps throughout the -- marchers throughout the day having crisscrossed the city and a focal point, brian todd there tonight. people are speaking out about their experiences and run-ins with police. what are you hearing now? >> reporter: anderson they are still doing the same things here but breaking into strong and chanting and it has become a festive atmosphere here. festive but yet still here and on message. people are still hearing, we won't be completely satisfied unless they get convictions in this case. we are winding back into the crowd here as people are carrying the banner in the
shadows of city hall. what is telling is in -- in about half an hour or so when the curfew hits and what will happen and the curfew is not popular but it is respective and what people will say is what they want the legacy to leave on this case is this of civil disobedience and not the ram path and the looting and the burning. this is the legacy they want to leave with the american people as we wind down this week of protests. this rally here in the shadows of city hall this culminating of what has to have been the longest march, about six miles through the city. >> brian todd thank you. and miguel marquez in city hall at another location within the crowd. and joins us would more on the
prosecutor -- the prosecution's opinion of the death of freddie gray and some thinking she went too far and the amount of information she released but can you take us through what we learned from miss mosby's press conference today. >> it was fascinating to hear those charges and baltimore police was saying the officers had done nothing wrong to cause the injuries. but the celebration here is the charges but we're hearing a heck of a lot more how freddie gray dried. >> this is where it all started on sunday april 12th when he dropped out of this shop with a cup of coffee and saw officers and ran. he zag zagged to try to get away from police. >> that is where the arrest was made and he was moved to this
location to put him in a leg lace hold. and in reality it was like this perfectly legal here. and the state's attorney saying there was no reason for the arrest. lieutenant rice and officer miller and nero illegally arrested mr. gray. >> it was here gray said he was having trouble breathing and asked for an in hailer and his request denied. >> he was placed in the transport van and not buckled in. >> this is baker street the first place the transport vehicle stopped, and in the little video we have we can see him laying half in and half out of the van and that is where he was stackled by the legs and arms behind his back and placed head first on his stomach and that street that was said led to his death. >> following transport from baker street mr. gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury. >> that was the second stop for
mr. gray captured there. despite it being a condition check for mr. gray the driver of the truck checked him out and did nothing for him and then drove on for a third time without buckling him in. this was the third stop for mr. gray in the transport vehicle. two times said the state's attorney he asked for assistance and two times he was denied. the only thing they did was pick him up off the floor and put him on the seat and still not buckled in. this is the fourth stop for mr. gray. and the only female officer, alicia white, checked on him and speaking to the back of his head and he was unresponsive and for the fifth time they failed to bucking him in. and this is the final spot the western district police station and under heavy guard, despite
only a few blocks from where he was arrested it took an hour to get him here. and once here they turned his attention to the other prisoner and then mr. gray. by then he had stopped breathing breathing. >> and miguel from the protesters you've been talking to you've been talking to people for two weeks now, but the tenure you've been hearing from today, what are they telling you about the charges? >> they aren krid ebolaly -- they are in credibly grateful someone was charged but everybody feels they have wronged by the police in some ways. and i've said this several times, the neighborhood feels there is an in visible wall around it between them and the police. that dynamic has to change. hopefully this is a start. but people telling me he was treated like an animal and that has got to end. anderson. >> miguel marquez, thanks.
and i want to bring in mark geragos and harry houck. it is interesting, mark the details about the maneuvers of the place van and what happened to freddie gray. there is still so much we don't know and of all of the information, that hasn't been released as an torn what do you -- as an attorney what do you want to know? what details do you want to know? >> if i'm representing the driver i'm going to make the argument he was already injured and it was pre-existing and anything that happened in the car or the van had nothing to do with his death, it was a pre-existing condition. if i'm the guys doing the arrest it is on sit. it will be they charged the driver and he did the rough ride and we arrested and there is no probable cause and so what. >> the theories they have charged here are almost designed
specifically to put them at odds with one another. >> and herry, you used to work internal affairs, nypd and is that also a technique used in internal affairs. >> oh, yes, withouta doubt. just because they are cops doesn't mean you don't use it on them. >> get somebody else to turn. >> especially if your case isn't good. you can get someone to scare, you're going to jail for 30 years. we'll give you a break, but we want to know what the other guys did. >> it is interesting. but you would think the person with the least amount of charges to hopefully flip with the american against the most amount of charges. >> i don't think the arresting officers have that much to fear depending on who their jury is. the guy with a lot to fear is the driver in this case. >> but for the driver unless
there is evidence and we don't know but unless there is evidence the driver had physical contact with mr. gray the only way that the driver could have injured mr. gray is by driving erratically. >> right. and doing the stop-sandand-go. and based on what we've seen he will use the defense he doesn't know what is going on in the back. i'm sure he'll say i assume they had him cuffed in and i'm looking out and doing what i'm supposed to be doing. and everybody will have their unique defense position and it is not a slam-dunk by any means in this case. >> that offer driving that vehicle knows that he did not give him one of those rough rides. he's not going to turn because of that. he knows himself what he did in that van. >> and that is the driver of the vehicle that we're showing you right now. >> right. so if he's been charged with
second-degree murder his lawyer is going to say to them, listen, did you give this guy a rough ride yes or no. and he said no, and i know i didn't do it and they will say they won't get a conviction on second-degree. >> and there is an interesting dynamic here but you are talking about the police and the community and three african-americans and three white officers. and so that dynamic, i think, we're going to kid ourselves if we don't think that will come to play. i think at some point there will be a lot of pressure from the community on the african-american officers here to do something. >> it was also interesting to have the attorney for the police -- for the police union early on -- this was, i don't know a week ago when i interviewed him, he was pointing and saying whatever happened happened inside of that van, did not occur during the arrest. you could -- there is a
conspiracy theory that he is trying to pib it on -- pin it on one police officers versus another but that is just a conspiracy theory. >> it sounds like that but i had that reaction too. why are they saying it had to happen in the van as opposed to before because as you said with professor kobilinsky it looks like on the tape of this young man, that he was severely injured before they put him into the van. >> but harry, a lot of police officers i've talked to that said when i made an arrest dragged their feet and screamed out. >> including me. i've experienced that a dozen times. that happened almost all of the time. you throw them in the back of the radio car and they go crazy and start screaming and kicking and now you pull over and shackle the guy and that is why when they pulled him out of the van, because he might have been kicking and going crazy in the
back of the van and so they had to stop and shackle him but they didn't buckle him up like they should have. >> and the interesting thing that i came out as a leak from the police department saying he had injured himself. i can't tell you the number of cases where that is the defact yo default position -- defacto default position of the police. we have a resisting arrest and i'm saying why are you beat up and they say he threw himself face first into the pavement and that is a default position of the cops when they injure somebody saying he was trying to injure himself. >> again, there is a lot we don't know and we can keep stressing that. mark geragos and harry houck. >> and marilyn mosby coming out swinging and she comes from a long line of law enforcement and how that might help shape the
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>> it is starting to thin out, anderson. many of the people here are deciding to move on but you still have a dedicated bunch left here wanting to stay beyond the curfew. still listening to speakers up here anderson chanting slogans such as peace, but also it is important to be powerful. you've been hearing this all night. so many people out here, especially marching through the street of west baltimore feel so disenfranchised, feeling tonight is the first night in many years that they have a voice. and so many people coming out. grand mothers coming out, and one woman coming out to shake their hands and people in the windows, coming to the windows to cheer the crowd on. could you sense a feeling that final people feel that they haven't had a voice for so long having one. >> you've heard that for so
long jason, we appreciate it. >> and prosecutor moseley in the spotlight and that gives a microphone to her harshest critics a spotlight also. >> we believe that the actions taken by the state's attorney are an egregious action. >> the baltimore fraternal officers asking for action and she is clear she won't go anywhere. she in baltimore is new to the job. the youngest top prosecutor to any city. and randi kaye looks at the path they took to get there. >> after sher 17-year-old cousin was gunned down on her door st. patrick, marilyn mosby had her first step in interaction with
the court. >> after cooperating with the police to testify in court and the way in which the district attorney's office dealt with my family is something that inspired me. >> that was back in 1994 when the office in baltimore city hall wasn't on her radar. she grew up in boston where her mother and father were police officers and her grandfather was one of the first african-american police officers in massachusetts. she talked about how that impacts her view with cnn's don lemon. >> i think it gives me a well rounded perspective. i come from five generations of law enforcement and it is instilled. i understand the commitment and the sacrifice that the police officers make. >> in 2002 mosby game a first generation college graduate, grudding -- graduating magnum
cum laude and joined the office as an assistant d.a. >> she was an insurance agent before making this statement. >> i'm running for state's foreign for baltimore city. >> she won. and vowing to be more aggressive on police misconduct. [ cheering and applause ] >> our time is now. >> 35-year-old marilyn mosby just took office in january. now she's at the center of the freddie gray case with her decision to charge the six officers involved in his fatal arrest without directing her comments to the gray case she told don lemon officers must be accountable. >> those officers that you usurp their authority, you have to hold them accountable because it does a disservice to the hard-working police officers and so for me it is about applying
justice fairly and equally to those with or without a badge. >> even so, that hasn't stopped the police un yun -- union for calling her to recuse herself even though her husband is say city council mab. >> i uphold the law and he makes the law. >> and this isn't just any case and for a d.a. who has never tried a murder case before there is no room for error. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> and back with us sunny hostin who is friends with the mayor in baltimore and joining us mark o'mara who represented george zimmerman in the trayvon martin case. and you listen to her history and she comes from a long line of police officers and i can't
help but be reminded of mccollock who came from a long line of policemen and this time is the prosecutor like mike brown calling for a special prosecutor. >> that is true. i think mccollock had a different relationship with the community. he was known or people felt in the community he was unfairly slanted toward law enforcement and had a history of backing police officers and not charging them. i think in this instant, marilyn mosby's lack of experience quite frankly, is helpful to her in terms of the perception of the community because they feel although she has this law enforcement background they can trust her. she's doesn't have that kind of track record so while i see people -- >> you're talking about the
african-american community but in the police community what we're hearing is that because of her husband's connections with -- with the neighborhood -- the freddie gray that he believed in i think where he lived and also the support -- the family attorney gave her in order to get elected, i think he donated 5,000 dollars to her campaign they feel that is an undue influence. >> and i have to say, i think that is a fair criticism and i've heard that from all people in baltimore. they are supporting her and that she is a fresh face and because she is so young she brings the exuberance and she is not tainted what people have told me but many people have told me she is inexperienced and quite frankly this is not the kind of case that she should be handling
because they believe she does have a conflict of interest because her husband is the city councilman. quite frankly whose district is in the district that this occurred. and they also have pointed out the fact that billy murphy the gray family attorney was sort of the architect behind her campaign. so there is criticism that i think is fair. >> mark what about that? marilyn mosby's husband is a councilman and in the district where the incident occurred not necessarily where he lived and the donations to the campaign. but the fraternal order of the police also donated to her campaign. is there a conflict here? >> she's young. i think one, she's increased her capital as a national spokesperson for inequalities of the criminal justice. i think she'll rise up to the task of handling this case
appropriately but there will be pressures. i'm not sure how she'll run the tight rope of being a spokesperson for equality and with her family background it. will be tough for her. but if she handles herself the way she did at the press conference today and how she handled the press, i think we'll see great for her during difficult times. >> were you surprised today at the speed of it. >> i was very surprised at the speed of it ten or 11 days and i was surprised at the way she charged everybody. because in effect she said six out of six cops are criminals, probable cause that they committed crimes. a very unique position to take. i do think that she -- the way she structured her charging that she anticipates working with a couple of the lesser included probably and i also
think that the most significant charge against the driver she has to be -- know something that we don't know about the way the van was driven. because the only thing that separated the driver from the other five is the fact that he was driving. so whether it was the stop and go or erratic driving, and we'll know that from the gps driving and that separated him out and why she's focusing on him. >> because of right now there is no evidence of physical contact between the driver and the physical contact. we'll have to leave it there. and what today's news means and what happens next.
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about 15 minutes to go until the curfew in baltimore. the week ending calmly a different from monday night when a senior center went up to flames. i spoke with the pastor this weekend and he said he would rebuild. he joins me with the councilman scott. when we spoke the other day, you said you spoke to a lot of people who don't see hope. what is the message sent to the young people today? >> i think the message of hope was resoundingly clear today in a world that we have experienced
so much injustice, we finally got a process to start justice that hasn't happened in so many places in america and it is a great day for baltimore. >> ansz councilmon you spent a lot of the past days in schools talking to young people and i'm wondering what you heard from them and from others? >> i was actually in school when i talked to leaders and today, the message returns hope to the city of baltimore and to young people but it is critically important to the city as young people that we cap callize on the hope and that we change that opinion in the city moving forward. >> and the fact that three of the people involved are african-american does that change the narrative at all? >> i don't think it changes the narrative but we have to be careful and see what the facts are that every person is going
forward. and some need to see it as a blue and white issue and not a black and white issue. and that is an issue we have to tackle not just in baltimore but in the united states of america. >> and councilman i heard that it is not on whether the officer is black or white, it is the shield and the badge and the power it gives an officer in the community. >> i'm glad that we are evolving as a society and everything is not black and white. there are some shades of gray as it relates to justice and i'm glad when the state as attorney made -- the state's attorney made the decision today that she did so without vilifying or condemning good cops but pressing for justice for those not as good as they should be. >> as pastor so many people saw the senior center that you worked so hard for get burned
down and are there any plans for the rebuild or fund raising? >> on monday night we had faith and it is materializing and in reality when we spoke to the principals of the project, the water group capital barks, hark harkins builders and everybody assured us it would be back on the project and it would be eight months delayed but we should have the project up and running, we're so supported by that project, we'll be thor than just that one block, we'll have more blocks that is a model for that city and more across america. >> and we'll look forward though that. thank you. pastor and councilman we look forward to having you on.
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significant amount of evidence she will present to the grand jury. >> and interesting the use of the national guard in this case. in ferguson there was a lot of concern about them being visible. and here they were very visible in the streets of baltimore, even today, very visible and yet it seemped to go as good as it possibly could have. >> i mean the whole thing here is after the first night of rioting when the national guard came out, i think people pretty much knew even the bad guys look we're not going to mess with the national guard and all of a sudden it's been really quiet -- >> you have so many community leaders -- >> -- i would probably venture to say that the national guard might leave tomorrow. >> again, influence community leaders and women in the community policing themselves is
huge. >> that was very important. i would like to see this even after this is done. sorry, we're out of time sunny. the curfew in boston is minutes away. plenty still out there. we're going to put the night and week in perspective next. my lenses have a sunset mode. and a partly sunny mode. and an outside to inside mode. transitions® lenses automatically filter just the right amount of light. ask for transitions xtractive lenses. extra protection from light... outdoors indoors and in the car.
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go before curfew. i want to go to don lemon who is outside of city hall. have they started making announcements about going home? >> i haven't seen heard any announcements. but there are cops lined up in the interswekz their shields and we're hoepingping that people will comply and if they're still out here with one minute away it doesn't apire that they're going to be in their homes by 10:00. >> and a lot of these people have walked a long distance to get here so they're going to have to walk home. a lot of questions to how police are going to handle this. thank you very much for watching everybody. i'm turning it over to my friend, don lemon. don. >> you know this is cnn
tonight i'm don lemon. it's exactly 10:00, just before 10:00 here in baltimore. you can hear the police helicopter and this is the fourth night in a row for a city wide mandatory curfew that is now in effect. baltimore city is different tonight. there is jubilation in the air after the stunning turn of events that nobody expected at least not this soon the six officers are now charged in connection with his death. and now that it is 10:00 p.m. eastern time people are wondering what is going to happen now because people are still out on the streetsz. they have been told there is a curfew that has to happen every night. and they have been saying that this curfew should no