tv CNN Tonight CNN May 1, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
lemon. it's 11:00 p.m. in baltimore, maryland and you're looking at live pictures right now. police moved in swiftly as a mandatory curfew went into effect. and moments after it took effect, they moved in and arrested protesters those who refused to leave and were breaking curfew. first to cnn's brian todd who's out in the field. what do you have for us? >> reporter: don, we're at the police line here just adjacent to city hall that was formed shortly after they started to apprehend people and get them into these vans. i just spoke to one of the public information officers officer jackson, i asked him about the account that we got just a short time ago that claimed they saw police beating protesters with batons. i said would you be able to tell
us if that happened? would you have any response and he said he couldn't comment on it and asked if we had video on it and i said i have not had a chance to review our video. i do know don, that we saw a very aggressive and frunetic may lay that was started by one of the officers not in riot gear, grabbed a protester and grabbed him. and that's what we can tell you about the allegations of beating with baton. >> let's take a look pp.
so brian, you're looking at that video there again, that was unedited raw video. you witnessed that right at the top of the last hour. >> reporter: that's right, don. and it was frightening. there were a crowd already being pushed back and they were yelling things at them and i heard them yelling that police officers were kourds. well that led to a swarm of people and as you may have seen in the video and. but we just witnessed that scene
and that led to a swarm of people and then the police of course got very aggressive and pinned peep thool ground. we almost got pushed over and almost as quickly it got cleared out. and very quickly. but again, i can't say that i personally saw any police beating anyone with a baton and i don't know if it's on the video. i do know that two of the protesters claimed that. i told that to one of the police officers and he asked if we had video. if we have it maybe we can retrieve that for him. and i did ask why they were so aggressive and he did not say. this was a marked difference from yesterday, when they moved in to the crowd, just walking in between them and having community leaders to talk them
out of that intersection, pa pennsylvania avenue and north avenue, a tactic that seemed to work because community leaders came back and talked these people off that intersection and it broke up very peaceably. the police never had to move in. tonight, for whatever reason they did see a circle of protesters indicating they didn't want to move after curfew. so that may have been a reason the police decided to move in. >> if you see any of the people who were detained ask them where they're from and if they're actually from baltimore. miguel was out in the crowd. miguel, go ahead. >> reporter: yeah the young woman that i spoke to a while ago is a waitress here and said that she thought they were not going to enforce the curfew. there wasn't any plan for civil
disobedience tonight but they felt they should have the right to be in their city hall park and after this festive, the day that the day was, they thought they would have that right, so the police is all but done. i say maybe a dozen, two dozen arrestees tonight. and they had them back in this area. so you can see the debris in that area there. and they pushed them all the way back to this wall here and this is where the trouble began once the protesters got to this little wall there's a flower bed there and this is where it became very difficult for protesters and police to move and where i think even police officers got injured because it was too small a space and they had all that heavy gear and we
had the results that we had. several arrestees were taken on that side and passing by your camera at one point and i've seen a half dozen or more on this side that were brought into this place where the police are now and taken away in vans. don. >> i want to ask you something, miguel. you heard people being interviewed saying police were really aggressive and people being beaten. from our vantage point, i didn't see people being beaten but it could have happened. >> reporter: i think i saw the young man that the woman was talking to and he had a black smudge but it wasn't a bruise. i didn't see anyone being beaten, in fact they were being
quite kind to people they were arresting. they frisked them and put them down on the ground and slowly worked on them. there was one woman, i believe her name was dawn african american in her 20s and i saw her later with a band nl aroundage around her head. that was the one person who seemed to have an injury. they did have her flat on her belly at one point and she could have banged her head then but i didn't see any obvious scars or cuts on her head when i had talked to her. >> miguel marquez out in the crowd doing a great job reporting here. and i want to bring in our experts here. a professor of crimnology.
and mill franklin is a retired police major and sunny, and a former new york police director and charles or chad a criminal defense attorney. i've got everything legal, law enforcement i've got all of it. so, heres the thing, i don't want anybody to get beaten up. i believe in civil disobedience when it's warranted but why would someone think there was no curfew when it had not been announced? and if everyone had been saying it was still in effect and we had been saying it was happening all night, where is the disconnect here? >> i think it's pretty clear at least from what people are saying that they don't believe the curfew is necessary any longer and again, while that nay be the case and right behind us
we see -- >> sorry sunny. so you can see those are some of the officers either they're going to another spot or going back to headquarters or what have you but there they are. so sorry about that sunny. go ahead. >> i think that the issue seems to be people don't think curfew should be in place any longer and while that may be the case you don't get to decide what the law is and you don't get to decide which laws you want to follow and which ones you don't. i'm, of course as an attorney a proponent of civil disobedience. but was because of what happened earlier in the week with the rioting and looting, i think in
terms of public safety, they need to go home at 10:00. >> and i don't want my beer to be 10 bucks that bar but it is. and the initial thing was at least seven days. it would be in place at least seven days. >> so we still have days ahead of us. i know in prior evenings we've had some of our leaders come out and usher people along and police have been very willing to let that happen. i don't know to what extent that was afforded tonight. but if you have a law in place, you have to enforce it because if you don't, there becomes disrespect for the law and disresfrektdisre disrespect for people enforcing the law. so the police are going to have to make an effort. >> are you an attorney here in baltimore? >> i am. >> so what happens tonight for the people arrested?
>> they will get reviewed or if it's a noikt to be arrested friday night isn't your best choice, because you'll wait until monday for arraignment. >> hopefully, you're going to get a quick and easy bond because certainly the violation of curfew particularly tonight is a fairly minor infraction. i think what's happening with this curfew and sunny touched on it, there have been a degrading of resfrekt the law, particularly how it's effecting the african american community, so there's a release of sorts today when the charges are filed and i think people felt that their disresfrektpect for the law was appropriate before and tonight
they're saying we've been vindicated, the curfew is no longer necessary, and we're a bit emboldened by the fact that our concerns of being treated have been vindicated and they sat in a public place and said we're not leaving and we'll get arrested because of it. hopefully the commissioner will let them go home tonight and we'll be able to move forkwrdward and focus on what needs to be focussed on. and the folkcus is what happened to freddy gray and how can we make this positive? >> i don't disagree with mark at all, i think if you want to defy it and you don't think there should be a curfew then you are welcome to sit in the park as long as you want but don't be surprised if you get arrested. >> and as i said civil
disobedience has a noble history but it's to the point where you say i am willing to be arrested. but one person said it's not civil disobedience but don't arrest us anyway i don't get that. and the retired major said this hasn't happened in a vacuum and that's something sunny j some of your other guests talked about. so the people on the grund having to handle tonight and it's not just tonight, it's tonight in the context of how it happened tonight and in the future. so, we do know that crowd violence is very emotionally based. so if we can move in and short circuit that and keep it from build nothinging into the creshen dough,
so to get them to show that resfrekt the law and show them once again that it's operative, that's a very necessary thing to keep everything calm. >> i can just hear all of the young people at home those old folks, don't know what they're taurk talking about. it's time for change. but what happens tomorrow? because now you have the system of probably a bit clogged up with people taken into custody, there are big protests tomorrow. so what does law enforcement do? how are they planning for tomorrow? >> i think law enforcement is going to air on the side of caution until they feel things have really calmed down across the board. they're going to treat it as david had mentioned, treat this continually as it has the
potential to erupt. i'm sure they're hoping it doesn't happen but they're going to be on alert and expect people to behave lawfully. listen, civil disobedience, it is what it is. it's fine. police don't have a problem with it. and while they may be blocking an intersection or sidewalk it's not violent. so, once it reaches to the level of violence and you're burning down stores and overturning cars and what have you, that riotess type of behavior as the potential of people becoming injured and we obviously had a number of officers injured the other night and it prevents people from receiving a minor injury or a major injury causing death and we don't want to it to get to that point so they're going to do everything to avoid
that happening tomorrow night. >> i was going to say, do we still think there is a need for curfew tomorrow night? because from the outside, it appears things are really calming down and maybe we don't need a curfew tomorrow night. i'm interested in what the law enforcement people feel about that. >> i'm mixed about that. i feel that it might let off a bit of steam but it's the weekend and it will be a nice weekend weatherwise and multiple demmen stragds nmen nonstrations planned for tomorrow. so maybe you want to keep it into effect for tomorrow if tomorrow goes on without a hitch and then maybe -- >> david. >> i mean to piggy back with
what he just said this is a situation where the tactical commanders and the mayor and governor should be making this call together in terms of all the intell flow and their lugistics training and everything taken into account. >> absolutely. >> they're assessing a number of things. the mayor, police commissioner and the staff, they're assessing a number of things information that we don't have and they have intell that they're looking at and they're going to make the call. >> there's a delay and iall zaz to get to break and people at home always say why do you cut them off, i got to do it. i have to pay the bills. well, sir. after some serious consideration i'd like to put in my 15-year notice. you're quitting!? technically retiring, sir. with a little help from my state farm agent i plan to retire in 15 years. wow! you're totally blindsiding me here. who's gonna manage your accounts? this is a devastating blow i was not prepared for. well, i'm gonna finish packing my things. 15 years will really sneak up on you.
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all right. we're back now with our breaking news in baltimore, maryland. there was a curfew that went into effect at 10:00 p.m. eastern. there were people who defied it and people arrested. what are you seeing now, brian? >> reporter: don, in just the last few minutes, a significant clear out by police.
they have pulled out around this entire plaza area. this place was packed with police officers and mounted police along here just a short time ago and now you see it's empty. they've all pulled out. and our photo journalist is coming over here as we go where they were staged from. they moved in over here from the plaza. and one thing we have to talk about. we have talked about thue aggressive tactics of police here. and the crowd was different than the crowd at northern pennsylvania. about 60 stayed and they made a ring and sat down over there. they were intent on defying that curfew. it was a pretty clear what they showed. and the crowd at pennsylvania did not seem intent and that may be why the police moved in more
aggressively. we takedlked about policed tactics, we have to talk about the protesters' tactics as well. >> i want to bring in a producer and he marched yesterday with carmelo anthony. say what you want about the police, ain't nobody out here right now. >> i think they did a great job. when you a curfew it's a curfew. and at 10:00, they wanted to make sure people were safe at home. >> and you've been very supportive with the protesters and you were out marching with carmelo anthony. but when you have unrest like on monday, the rules are the rules are the rules. don't you think? >> yes. and you guys are doing an amazing job covering it and the
city from the governor on down to the state's attorney, they have done a great job. but when you talk about the civil unrest like on monday, my heart hurt. i had to get on a plane in chicago because i love peaceful protests, i don't like tearing our city down when we should be bringing it up. >> it was sad news because we had heard from some of the witnesses, the person who was in the van with freddy gray and just how sad that was and then the prosecutor came out and announced the charges people were very excited and happy about that. and then the officers arrested and then we have this tonight where people are being unruly. what a day. >> i think it's a day where you had a lot of ups and downs and a lot of emotion. but the process of justice has started and i think you have a young state's attorney who said
i hear you young people. you don't have to tear our city down. >> talk to those people. what do you say to the young folks? >> listen i had the opportunity to go a lot of places i haven't seen and i say we hear you, there needs change. there's a systemic problem in our education system. one in three people are from baltimore. and what about putting a development skill programs and investing in education. i'm just working hard and i'm here for you and baltimore, i love you. i'm your very own. >> and i won't joke with you. you know i was joke with you yesterday. >> god bless you, good night. >> thank you, kevin. you're such a good sport and i love the work you do. you're a good man.
you know today i spoke with baltimore city state's attorney journal marilyn mosby after she surprised the city and the nation with charges against all it six officers in the death of freddy gray. >> you said you addressed the family during the press conference and you're very aware of everyone in this particular situation, how each side feels. >> absolutely and i can relate. i've been impacted by crime and losing a loved one is really a hard thing to do and so what i've promised do is be as transparent with this family as possible and i brought them in sat them down spoke with their attorney and explained the process to them. >> that's what you ran on is fairness and accountability and you don't want to go into the
details which is understandable. there have been some leaks, which i'm sure is concern to you. what do you say about the leaks? >> i think i was very candid and i think that is completely unacceptable and it muddies the waters. we have to make sure that this process is fair and impartial and by leaking information, it does a disserves to the process. >> you were so emfattic in your press conference and everyone around the country is commending you -- >> not everybody. >> but it would appear from your demeanor, that in many ways it seemed egregious, there were so many things fell through the cracks protocol, not seatbelted, not calling for medical help an illegal arrest
and on and on and on. >> i think facts speak for themselves. >> the sop is asking that a special prosecutor be appointed and handle this case. >> i think that's absurd. where's the accountability? you will have somebody that apoints somebody else. the people of baltimore city voted for me to go against violent offenders and police officers. i'm accountable to the people who have elected me. so this is about justice and applying it fairly and equally. >> do you feel any type of pressure to get this quickly? what type of pressure do you feel handling this case?
>> i don't feel any pressure. we have been investigating this from the very beginning and we needed confirmation from the medical examiner's report and we got that. i can't get into the specifics of the case but as a prosecutor you should not bring charges if you don't believe you have probable cause that these individuals are responsible for the charges. >> do you think that police officers organizations across the country, not speaking to the good officers, the departments that do things right, should they be paying attention to this and i'm sure they are and they're concerned with this. >> i'm sure they are and it's about accountability. i welcome the justice department investigation. why wouldn't i? it's a parallel investigation and they want to come in and make sure things are right and
they should. >> very candid interview there. and i'm joined by a forensic pathologist. you've said this is an open and shut case. why? >> rets >> let's set aside emotions and conjecture. you start out with someone pushed to the ground and placed in a prone position and he then says he can't breathe. briefly say sit him up and put him back into a prone position and an officer puts a knee into his back. this is called compressional asphyxiation and it's something well known not to be done. think of the johnny damage case i had here in pittsburgh and many others and then we see him placed into the van and he's already not capable of walking as far as i can see and again
placed in a prone position and now his ankles are tied and now his wrists are tied behind his back. this is essentially, the hog tied position which every metropolitan police agency in america, the international association of police chiefs, all condemned 30 years ago. you don't do that. and then they move that van, he's crying for help no medical attention is brought to him, he's an inert object just moving around in any way that the van goes whether that was deliberate, malevolent or just in the normal course of driving, what difference does it make? you have that body back there moving in that fashion. i believe there was a strong likelihood he had a vertebral fraction to begin with and it
was aggravated and extended when his body moved around in that van. in order to get three veteeberal factures, you have to have significant force. so, one way or another, that significant force was applied and this man then died. they brought him back shortly, operated on him, but essentially he was dead because of the damage to the spinal cord and the nerved that go up to the lungs and heart. so i don't understand what all of this difficulty ein comprehending what transpired here and the question about how they can they prove when the injuries occurred. he already had a broken spine, well, you know what that doesn't happen.
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. back now with our breaking news coverage in baltimore, maryland. moments after the curfew went into effect at 10:00, police went swiftly to arrest protesters who were at city hall park. and they took them away and we want to know exactly what happened with freddy gray in the back of the van. we spoke to a young man who said he was in the back of that van on that day and here's what he tell me he saw and heard. so, then you get in the van. how long do you wait there? >> about two minutes. >> do they put a seatbelt on you? >> if they put seatbelts on anybody, i don't know who that person is. if they put a seatbelt on somebody, then they're treating them better than anyone in
baltimore city. >> so they put you in the van and you said just about two minutes and they don't put a seatbelt on you. are you moving around in there? >> no not moving. they wasn't trying to hurt me back there or nothing. they weren't trying to intentionally hurt me back there or nothing. >> could you see the person driving the van? >> it's like a polka dot gate where you can see them. >> but you can't see the other side? >> no it's completely solid. >> and you said that he was intentionally screaming, according to the post. >> untrue. very very very untrue. very untrue. i never talked to no investigators, nobody i got my
own personal lawyer, who i haven't talked to all day because of the madness going on. the only person i talked to was homicide and the same story i'm telling you now i told them. >> >> i'm not sure if you were back there but they said there was someone back there trying to hurt himself. >> untrue. the only thing i heard was i thought someone was banging their head but now i know that he was hurting before he got in the van. he wasn't hurt while in the van. nobody did never come in the back of that van touch me or nobody on the other side. we didn't make no stops. we went straight to the police station. i know for a fact that he did
not hurt himself. a man cannot hurt himself with three fractured bones and a voice box broken and you can not do that in a paddy wagon. maybe you can hurt your head and have a head ache but not to the point where you're dead and brutalized like that. >> and officers can't get in? >> they can probably stand that entrance and punch you in your face but what is that going to do. he was definitely injured before he got in the van. >> so, do you hear any conversations -- >> i'm aware of my surroundings. so, as i'm going in i'm listening but as i'm going in i do hear someone say, well you know we did give hame run for his money. he's not breathing.
>> that's what they said? >> i don't know who. but i heard police saying that. >> as you were going into the police van. >> >> as i was going into the police station. >> and what did they say? >> we gave him a run for his money. but they weren't saying it like guys we really have a problem here. that's how he said it. >> charges tonight against six officers in the death of freddy gray. so that's just the first step. what happens next? we'll get into that after the break. moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo.
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we're back now with our breaking news coverage in baltimore. i'm joined by a cnn commentator and as well as sunny and neal. i have to ask you because initially we heard the report from the washington post saying there was another passenger on the side of the van saying he heard freddy gray intentionally trying to hurt himself and then there was dante allen saying he didn't hear anything and it was a smooth ride. do you think someone is leaking false information? >> it certainly sounds like it. the interview you did was fascinating fascinating. and some things seemed to side with what the police were arguing which is that there was
no rough ride and when he said it, i was a little astonished because two of the charges against the driver have to do particularly with manslaughter related to driving a vehicle. and so if you've got somebody in the back of the van saying it was quote, a smooth ride that makes it difficult to prove that case but again, him giving an interview to you, they're going to take his testimony and line it up against the time line. so, very interesting interview, don. >> yeah. it was. the thing is though, we don't know what happened before -- at least when dante is in there, i don't know if there's a gps on the truck that will figure out. but he was the last person -- the last stop. and so they picked him up and went to another stop that wasn't recorded and then went to
dante's top. who knows what happened before then. >> that's true and also he was at the stop where it's alleged that the sergeant found him unresponsive and continued to not call for medical attention. so he's going to be a key witness in this entire thing, don. >> so the police officers union said that their officers did nothing wrong but the officers repeatedly failed to seatbelt gray at the very least, because initially and then at the other stop they didn't seatbelt him at the very least. that was a grave mistake, wasn't it. >> and i hate to see these unions do that. we saw that in the eric garner case where they come out at all costs to make statements to protect their officers. when their officers are wrong, i just wish they would have the
curnl to stand curage to stand up and say they're wrong. one person saying he had a switch blade and another person saying, no, he had a legal knife. and there's a laundry list of things done wrong. so for the police union to try to stand up to those actions by their officers causes the further distrust that we see demonstrated by the protesters and talked about so often when we talk about those cases involving african american men. >> i don't think that's fair. they're representing their clients, for crying out loud. >> well you can represent your clients but you don't have to make statement -- >> i apologize for the delay. i ownnly have so much time now. the driver doesn't really have
that much interaction with the person in the back of the van. so, if this person was injured before hand and he's eye balling and not a medic, then what's his exposure here? why would he be charge would murder or second degree murder? >> there were multiple times that he got out and checked the welfare of mr. gray in the back of the van. ultimately, that cargo, mr. gray is his responsibility. and he had requested -- she said that there was evidence that he had requested -- mr. gray had requested -- >> but what if the other officers never told him that they had, may have roughed him up. so the guy doesn't know that he's been rufredoughed up or injured. so manslaughter by vehicle, that would indicate a rough ride
-- >> it would. >> -- or that the driver knew beforhand. >> well not necessarily the manslaughter but certainly the depraved heart murder charge you would have to prove that he intentionally drove that way to cause the death. so i would think by just your interview, if that's what he said to investigators, that certainly would make a case against this driver much more difficult. >> and the thing is the state's attorney said they had repositioned him at one time back on the seat, now, any officer who's driving one of those vans would know if someone is seatbelted and shackled, it doesn't have to be a rough ride there's a chance of that person coming off of the street and what happens if they have no way
to protect themselves with their arms -- >> i have to cut you off. i wanted to spend more time with you guys but i can't. >> we splent day together. >> i'm sorry. it's late. stay with us for more of our breaking news coverage after this. and the samsung galaxy s6 edge is breaking the rules of design. can't get your hands on it because you're locked down by a carrier? break free t-mobile will pay every penny of your switching fees. get ahead of the curve and get your hands on the galaxy s6 edge for $0 down at t-mobile today. let's take a look at your credit. >>i know i have a 786 fico score, thanks to all the tools and help on experian.com. so how are we going to sweeten this deal? floor mats... clear coats... >>you're getting warmer... leather seats...
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i am back now with my expert to talk about this. you and mel, had a little contingeant debate. listen, it's hard to get an arrest, let alone a conviction. this is quite different. so people are concerned now, like hey, an indictment. so people are concerned now, maybe this will go to court and nothing will happen. >> well i think they should be concerned because we know statistically, the probability of a police officer, or in this case six officers being convicted are not that great. history tells us that they are often exonerated even when they're tried. so i think the proesttesters have a right to be concerned. but today was a game changer and
speaks to accountability that will happen with respect to officers who break the law. it sends a message, they're not above the law. >> look these officers deserve due process. it's extraordinarily important that we got this into the justice system now let it work. and if the evidence warrants it they will be convicted and if it doesn't, they won't. but at least now, we will have a day in court and they will be held accountability. but i think it's superpremature to worry about whether they're going to be convicted when we should be focussed on the fact that they were arrested and will be served by the justice system. >> you don't get a chance to talk but you guys look great. all right. cnn's breaking news coverage
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