tv At This Hour With Berman and Bolduan CNN May 7, 2015 8:00am-9:01am PDT
brady fights back. terribly disappointed. his agent blasted deflategate report. oh, my, what happens now? >> will a nun take the stand in the boston trial. inspiration for "dead man walking" why legal teams in boston at odds over this. >> is there a campaign to discredit the prosecutor in baltimore. new links that prosecution against the six officers just doesn't add up. hello, everybody.
i'm kate bolduan. >> i'm john berman. the report all but calls him a cheater, says he lied to investigators, suggested he traded shirts for softness. now tom brady is fighting back against the envelope report on deflategate, a display, perhaps, meant to show he has a big set of gripes. >> oh, gosh. >> just a few minutes ago brady's agent released a statement that, frankly, i find startling. >> a long statement, too. here is part of it. in it he writes this, "the wells report, with all due respect, is a significant and terrible disappointment. its omission of key facts and lines of inquiry suggest investigators reach a conclusion first and then determine so-called fact later." he also says this, "suggests in his va they cooperated in perpetuating and perpetrating a sting operation." let's bring in tim green, former
nfl defensive end for atlanta falcons, also an attorney and "new york times" best selling author of "football genius." rachel, are you surprised, they came out swinging on this? >> this was not a moodest, hey, we disagree with the report. this was punching big holes, bringing up the conflict of interest issue, which, of course, we know we've been talking about that on this show and all over cnn for months. richard sherman from seattle seahawks brought this up as well. then they are saying basically there are huge parts of tom brady's testimony they didn't include in this report. so this is a big contrast or at least some contrast to the statement from robert kraft of new england patriots yesterday. the owner also disputed the report. that part is similar. he said at the end, we will take whatever punishment the league hands out. we understand that is part of this investigation. what tom brady's agent is saying here, they want to fight this, at least in the court of public opinion if not all the way up to
appealing, and they have a right to. >> i don't think the commissioner likes people who talk about. this doesn't just disagree with the report but does it in a cheeky way. more probable than not the league cooperated in a sting operation. could brady and his agent be making things worse before goodell decides what punishment to mete out? >> well, i think so. the corroboration between the investigator and the league doesn't make sense because the league has no interest in finding tom brady guilty, finding employees of the new england patriots guilty. that just doesn't make sense to me. if you read the report, and ted wells is a criminal lawyer, so his standard of evidence is always innocent until proven guilty and guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. it's interesting to me that as an attorney, he uses evidentiary
standard for a civil case in this preponderance of the evidence, more likely than not. i think ted wells seems pretty even handed and fair. he's still leaving some room for doubt, some room for tom brady and his agent to dispute and say, hey, look, i agree with the agent in that we don't see the full picture. there are things that tom brady, probably reasons and rational he has that aren't included in the report, where if it was a criminal case and on trial, you would have that opportunity, you would see both sides of the issue certainly going all the way back to robert kraft. he's disappointed, standing by his quarterback. in the end he's saying, look, we're one of 32 teams and i understand the importance of us just sitting down now, being quiet and taking whatever punishment the league hands out. i think most important is this, excuse me, is that robert kraft and bill belichick were found to
not have any involvement in it at all. >> tim, real quick. a lot of fans are really wondering as they read through this, how many page in the report? >> 200 plus. >> 236. you're a former player, you know the culture of the league, does this go far enough to establish tom brady is a cheater? >> well, i guess, look, you think a reasonable person is going to say yeah. tom brady, at least he knew, probably knew or probably maybe even had some involvement. but if you read the text, i felt like i was in law school again, that 240-page report, there's a lot of things where they were talking about tom was upset because the balls were overinflated. they were talking about having to bring the pressure down. you could really build a cogent argument about how tom brady was not talking about deflating them beyond the rules but make sure they are not overinflated.
>> this is not a court of law. it's the commissioner's office, the standard is more probable than not. rachel nichols, when you have terms that are frankly not too subtle like deflator, when somebody calls them selves the deflator, doesn't leave much to the imagination. >> that's your nickname around here. >> let's focus on that. >> what does roger goodell do now in now that he has the report, angry response from brady and his agent, what and when are we going to hear from the commissioner. >> one thing that's important, he's sort of pushing off the sentencing for this, the executive vice president. part of that is because roger goodell has come under a lot of criticism for his own dealing of punishment over the past year or so and the idea of having somebody else in the office do it is a way of distancing himself a little bit especially since he is so close to robert kraft, the patriots owner. this has been a big question mark. by troy vincent being the one that decided the punishment, in
roger goodell, troy vincent is the decider here, to bring up one of our political terms, he's trying to wade through this conflict of interest issue. we should say preponderance of the evidence, civil suit standard, that is in the integrity clause in nfl rooms. that is set out all they have to prove, more criminal version of beyond a reasonable doubt. that's not something they were told to go find. >> get ready to learn jimmy garoppolo. he's the patriots quarterback that could be playing. >> tom brady will be sitting on the sidelines or maybe not. >> thank you so much. great to see you both. turn to baltimore now, new developments in the case of the death of freddie gray. cnn sources say major discrepancies are emerging between police investigation and the prosecutor's investigation. >> so what we are told, police findings could undercut make of the most serious charges brought by state's attorney marilyn
moseby against six officers charged in the death of freddie gray. it needs to be said the leaking of this information could very well be designed to undercut marilyn moseby. >> good morning. it really isn't surprising you have these kinds of leaks coming from either the attorneys and some of the officers or other officials who have actually been able to see police investigation they did as well as the prosecutor's case that was laid out, the base for the charges against the six officers. there's a couple of things. these sources say they believe that the autopsy report does not support homicide. they also believe that the evidence the police have lay out a case for manslaughter, not second degree murder, and that two attorneys, for two of the officers, say they actually wan to see the knife that freddie gray had on his possession when he was apprehended, when he was tackled by the police initially because they believe that that
knife is illegal for him to have. if they can show that knife is, in fact, the type of knife that is illegal, it gives them probable cause for that arrest. therefore when you have the false imprisonment charge against those two officers, they are hoping that will dismiss the charge. those are the things behind the the scenes. do want to tell you as well this morning what we did see on the corner of pennsylvania and north avenue, that was the scene just more than a week ago where cvs was burning down. it is now boarded up. we saw the mayor as well as community leaders stress agnew initiative from the city. they are calling it one baltimore. the mayor saying the recovery effort is so critical at this time that the cameras, media, many people will go away in the months to come but that the community needs to come together. that is what she is trying to accomplish. that is what we saw in the corner just moments ago as they wrapped up that press conference. as we move forward later today we're going to see a
presidential hopeful republican ben carson meeting with religious leaders. there are a lot of activists, politicians, even musicians getting involved in this. monday prince is going to be giving his own concert in support of some of these community organizations. >> suzanne malveaux, thanks so much. russell brand not exactly breaking records at the box office nim: why is he a factor in a crucial election? voters are making their selection right now. plus sex, blackjack, escorts, this is not some bachelor party. pentagon employees, charges on their credit cards. so how are they explaining themselves? >> explaining themselves back home. and will one of america's most famous nuns testify on behalf of the boston bomber. right now a showdown over the inspiration for the movie "dead man walking." i don't want to live with the uncertainties of hep c.
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death of freddie gray does not support some of the most serious charges brought by states attorney marilyn moseby. her office with a separate investigation into how freddie gray suffered a spinal injury. the discrepancies pointed out to us between these two, suggestion is under these officials could uchbd cut the case in the six officers charged in the death of the 25-year-old. >> attorneys for those officers are already filing motions and digging for ways, really, to attack weaknesses they see in moseby's case against the
officers. less discuss -- let's discuss this, tom mesirow, formerly michael jackson's attorney. a couple of key points with discrepancies. obviously when you talk about the most serious charge second degree murder, that's the biggest charge they are trying to dig holes into, raising discrepancies between one investigation and the next. the police investigation, it was leaked out they were looking towards at most manslaughter, not second degree murder. do you think second degree murder and everything put out there so far goes too far? >> well, it may. remember, there was enormous political and social pressure to charge these police officers. once they were charged, the city calmed down, curfew was lifted, everything changed. the standard to charge someone is probable cause. probable cause is a very minimal standard. now they are in the criminal
justice system. now they are going to have to prove each and every police officer guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. when i say beyond a reasonable doubt, every element of the charged crime has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt including criminal intention. criminal intent is critical to every charge. it's a whole new ball game now. the defense lawyers are doing what they should do, attacking these charges, held substantial the evidence is, playing to the jury poll when they file these motions. it's a new game now. it's not that easy to convict all these people beyond a reasonable doubt i don't think. >> i think the last point that you're making about this being a new game, a game now where defense attorneys are actively involved here, police and interested parties, police unions and interested party. without substance of the leagues, the fact they are happening says a lot about the atmosphere under which this case will now be tried.
>> sure. as i said before, the city was in flames. the city could have been in far worse condition if there had been no charges. now the charges are brought, the city calmed down. can you prove them against each individual officer. the behavior of each officer and mind-set of each officer put under a microscope. i can imagine each officer if they choose to testify, look, this is what i knew. this is what nobody told me. i had no idea this person was in the kind of condition he was in. maybe they got calls to go somewhere else and they thought there was an emergency. i don't know what the evidence is going to be. i think a civil suit against the police department is going to be a lot easier than proving a criminal case against each individual officer. it's not going to be easy. second degree murder against a police officer is going to require a lot of proof, a lot of very damaging evidence. you're going to have to get into this person's mind as to what they were thinking and why. it's not going to be simple.
>> one thing you don't have to get into someone's mind about, the issue of the knife. they say they did find on freddie gray at the time. there is this discrepancy between was the knife illegal or was it legal. that obviously gets to the probable cause, should they have been able to arrest him at all. this is a physical item. it shouldn't be easy to clear up in my mind. why the confusion do you think? >> well, there's different standards, state law, local law as to what kind of knife is legal or illegal. is it manufactured, spring-loaded. there are a number of technicalities that go into this issue. overriding all of this, police officers have to operate with limited information, have to do their duty in a split second. they are going to get up and say this is what i thought, this is what i knew, this is what i was trained to do. the question is, is a jury going to give them the benefit of the
doubt or say they are criminals? >> tom mesereau, this is an important discussion we're going to keep on having. thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> ahead for us at this hour, the full show the queen is seeing but do we know for sure. prime minister cameron's job might not be safe. an important election happening in the uk. we'll give you the latest updates next. they're custom made trains.
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accent. voters are at the polls at this moment, a race that will determine the next prime minister there. it is a nailbiter of an election that seems tighter than milk jagger's slacks. >> seeking a second term as prime minister, opposition labor and party leader, big opponent. the outcome of this could determine if britain's vote on leaving european union very important indeed. senior international correspondent nic robertson also important. he's in london for us joining a game we have about questions about your elections, nic. how are you? >> wearing the jacket. i guess he would be running. >> milk jagger with one endorsement. here is one question. explain to us, whoever wins the most votes might not win in the
end. nic robertson with a fabulous british accent, why is this? >> we have the process here which means let's say this constituency right here, under the circumstances the votes. you get in here. across the country your party -- across the country your party gets the largest percentage of votes but you don't manage to win that many seats. it's the seats in parliament, each constituency that determine who gets to be in power here. right now it's expected david cameron, his party will get the most seats in the house. but that doesn't mean going to get to form the government. terribly complicated. lots of small parties. it's never quite been this way before. >> why, then, is russell brand
involved. russell brand, i don't think he's been in a hit movie for a long time. on the other hand, he made a real point of meeting with russell brand. what's going on here? >> russell brand is supposed to be cool and friendly. russell brand sitting on his bed, who does that? we don't know. that's the idea. the idea is that he wanted to connect with the younger audience. one of the thing he later said, the reason we want to do this, russell brand is telling people, young people, don't vote, it's not important. you know what, a couple days before today, russell brand said actually to all his young fans, supposedly, it is important to vote. >> scotland also plays a big part in this. obviously a very important question, was it going to succeed. now going to play a big part in this election. why?
>> sure. last year referendum in scotland, they didn't quite get it. there are more people in the scholarship army than in the british army. more people in the scholarship national party than there are in all the political parties across the uk. why? because they got some popularity, some momentum. they have got a lot more people to buy into the idea of independence and to the very essence of they believe the s&p can do a better job. had six mps or it did until a few days ago. it's expected out of 59 seats in scotland to get well over 50. massive landslide. that means they could end up having a significant voice in the houses of parliament in london. this is unheard of for them to have such a big voice. >> could mean labor would need them to form a coalition government, tacit government, so people who want to leave the european all together may does who is the next prime minister.
nic robertson. >> we can all say the messy american system is starting to look a little less messy after all that. >> come talk to us in a couple days. come talk to us in a couple of days when it's really messy and really in the weeds with this. >> i love it. we'll be there. with bells on. nic robertson, thanks so much. ahead for us at this hour, flowers, $10, wine, $30. adult entertainment, gambling and escorts, john, how much does that cost? >> priceless. >> unless you get caught charging it on pentagon credit card. what happens in vegas ends up. telling how, when, why they would attack with nuclear weapons. an eye-opening exclusive report. my constipation and belly pain
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dan danny savalo. why is she at the trial? what does the defense want with her? >> the prosecutor doesn't want her to testify because she could create sympathy for tsarnaev. they believe she could have an impact and convince jury dzhokhar tsarnaev's life is worth saving. we're hearing a long conversation about supermax prison he'd likely be sent to. an eighth wing, terrorist house. prosecution are splitting hairs about the difference between being in solitary confinement and general population. really, the difference is you do get some additional sort of consideration. for example, you can have visitors a few times a month. it's really you're still locked in a cell 23 hours a day. any time you leave, your hands are shackled, your feet are in leg irons. have very little interaction with anybody outside. so it's interesting to be
watching dzhokhar tsarnaev sitting in the courtroom listening to what his future is going to be, if he does get life in prison and if he is sentenced to that. also, look, think about what's going through his head. you can't possibly imagine, but he really seems to have almost checked out. he's listened to this. he knows what his future is and neither option is particularly interesting. >> laid out, the reason the defense wants to bring in this nun, would create sympathy for dzhokhar tsarnaev. i'm confused. isn't that what they are trying to do all along. they called some 40 witnesses, called in relatives from russia, classmates testifying he's impressionable and this was kind of brainwashing from his older brother trying to create sympathy. why do you think there's so much being made about this one witness? >> because admitting her testimony would be a very close call under the rules. the federal rules of evidence do not apply in federal death
penalty proceedings like this. instead the judge is required to accept virtually any mitigating evidence. that has limitations. it must relate to the character, circumstances or the facts about this particular offense. so the prosecution. >> would have to know him or know something about him or be connected to him in some way rainfall right. the prosecution will argue even under the relaxed rules in these proceedings, this should not be -- it has nothing at all to do with the defendant himself. she's just, i believe, going to talk about how bad the death penalty is, how she crusaded against it and not a particularly good thing in society. those things are all interesting. but under the federal death penalty act do they relate to this particular defendant's character or the offense itself. >> is deb still with us? do you know when they are going to wrap this up? when they are going to have this
decision? >> initially we thought that the defense was going to wrap today. now it appears they may need some extra time. we don't know whether sister prejean is going to be called to testify. right now we're hearing about restrictive measures. unclear. the defense is doing everything they possibly can to spare dzhokhar tsarnaev's life, to convince a jury that, in fact, you can sentence him to death. it will be over. sentence him to life. given what we just heard in that courtroom, it's certainly not going to be a much better choice. >> debra fay rec, danny cevellas. how many americans radicalized by isis online. we have a number and it is startling. plus blackjack, escorts, hey, it's a pentagon business trip. spending money on your credit card. there's a hearing right now trying to explain how this happened.
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a defense department audit found government employees found gambling activities. yes, adult entertainment to credit cards. >> the good news, if there's good news here, appears a lot of charges reimbursed. at least we have what's called fiscally responsible employees. but there is something wrong obviously going on here, all fun aside. that raises a lot of concerns and a whole lot of questions. let's get into it. pentagon correspondent barbara starr, chuck grassley of iowa. he's the man behind the law that gets to the heart of this issue called the government charge
part abuse prevention act. senator, we want to get your reaction. first, barbara lay out for us more about what this audit, what's in this report. >> here is how it's supposed to work. you go on a trip, pentagon employee person. you use your government credit card. you're supposed to file for reimbursement for legitimate government expenses, not supposed to use it for personal expenses. just like cnn when employees travel. they have had this problem before. i'm sure the senator will address it. has more aggressive oversight. this time this audit showing a very small percentage but still some people still putting those personal charges on their government credit card. what needs to be found out is how many of them tried to get government reimbursement for it. many of them we've learned have already paid back the charges or paid for it themselves. why do people do this sort of
thing? one of the theories is when they have these expenses, if they put it on their government card, the bill doesn't come to the house. their spouses don't see these questionable charges, and they go ahead and reimburse the government. it's not supposed to happen this way. a short time ago pentagon spokesman told me we are going back through all of this, getting the money back from people and that there have been some disciplinary actions. but still after all these years, people still trying to hide those charges. >> barbara, thanks so much. senator barbara starr calls them personal charges. i guess there are personal charges and personal charges here. it pains me you had to write a law to stop this. what's the cost, senator, to u.s. taxpayers here in how are we paying for this sort of embarrassing accounting? >> well, first of all, the charge card is a government document. whether it's paid back or not,
they are using government official, let's say, kidy card to get it done. it says official business only at the bottom of the card. everybody knows you don't use prostitutes or gambling for it. we used to get this information from whistleblowers. hopefully a lot less abuse now than there was 10 years ago when we first brought it up. the purpose was inspector general and official ride herd on this. he's going to issue the report. we're going to have to read the report to know whether further action has to be taken. this sort of shenanigan should stop because every federal employee knows common sense you don't use a government credit card to pay for prostitution. >> every government employee should at least know what common sense is if they are going to abide by it. that's clearly a whole other question. senator, from your experience,
you've looked at how bad this problem is. you've been looking into this, dealing with it for 10 years. you get this law passed. are you confident or has it been guaranteed to you that taxpayers are not on the hook for any of these charges yet? >> well, i can tell you in the past sometimes they have been on the hook and people haven't been fired and sometimes people haven't even been charged for the fraudulent use of taxpayers' money. in some instances there has been some prosecution. i can't give you a figure on it. but it lacks oversight by the department of defense. listen, we've run into other departments, too, that have done the same thing. the purpose now is to make sure we got official oversight, rather than just relying on whistleblowers to tell us what the information is, whether it's being abused or not. that's what this report is all about. now, whether something else needs to be done, we'll wait
until we go all the way through this report. >> what should happen to these employees in light of this, that will come out obviously in light of the report comes out. thank goodness for your work in getting the law passed. these audits happening on periodic basis. senator grassley, thank you so much. we know you jumped out of a hearing to come speak with us. we really appreciate it, senator. >> seems a safe standard for employees, every employee should know you don't use your government credit card for prostitution. >> that's what he was getting at, they were using their card to get their stuff done and i think they should not be doing that. >> quarter to the hour, ahead, isis trying to radicalize kids online. newest target, teens. >> top ranking interview, threats to the united states involving nuclear weapons. that's next.
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as investigators look into the two gunmen who tried to attack a cartoon contest in texas, breaking this morning, dozens of americans, 62 to be exact, in nearly 22 states have tried to join isis and other terror groups. they are young, active on social media and a surprising number of them are women. >> cnn's national security
analyst peter bergen testifying in a hearing on terror right now about really this exact topic, how isis is using social media to recruit americans. let's bring in david, he and bergen researched all this at the new american foundation and came up with this really striking research. david, thank you so much for joining us. what i was really struck by, the fact that the people that have been recruited come from really diverse backgrounds. have you seen a profile in your research, though, emerging of who is drawn or susceptible to being drawn to this type of radicalism. >> thanks for having me on. our key finding, or one of them, is there does not appear to be a single profile. they're americans, as american as anyone else. they're from across the country. we found cases in 19 different states. a variety of ethnic communities.
that they come from. they're mostly men, which isn't surprising, but an unprecedented number of women. large age range. but a quarter of them are teenagers. so this wide diversity makes it very difficult to find who to communicate with and engage in a single strategy. >> you know, we keep hearing that so many of these young people that recruit online, on social media, that phrase is tossed around so casually, it makes it seem as if something is easy and you would think that it might be possible to stop it. why is it so difficult for counterterrorism people to get in the way of that communication, the social media recruitment? >> well, to begin with, i think we should definitely recognize that law enforcement has been doing a pretty good job of this. there has been only one attack by a returning foreign fighter in the entire west -- or one
successful attack four years into the syrian conflict. the real challenge is these inspired cases like what appears to have occurred in texas, which skirts the line of the level of information or activity that can trigger government investigation. >> well, david, thank you so much for your time. really impressive. you can read more about it, he and david bergen, they wrote a piece for us on cnn.com. next for us, an exclusive interview with cnn. a nren official, a high-ranking member of the inner circle there, lays out that country's nuclear plan and perhaps ambitions against the united states, amazing detail. first, a 21st century onesie. a new way for parents to keep an eye and an ear on their newborns while they sleep.
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to north korea now. >> the headline, north korea plans to pursue its nuclear weapons program. and this inner circle guy says north korea would do so if needed. i want to bring in cnn's chief national security correspondent jim sciutto. jim, listening to this interview will had this official seemed to indicate there was a trigger with which north korea would use its nuclear weapons here. what is that? do we have any indication? >> any time you hear a threat
like this, it's alarming. first all, there are questions whether north korea has the technology to successfully miniaturize a warhead, put it on top a missile and get that missile successfully across the ocean to the u.s. coastline. there's questions there. two, although they have certainly made advances, two, would they actually do so, knowing the likely u.s. response, which would in effect be suicidal, right. that said, there is still strategic concerns here because what does this give north korea cover for. this is a country that sank a south korean navy ship a couple of years ago, killed 40-some odd sailors. so by having that threat of the nuclear option, literally and figuratively, does it give them cover to carry out other threatening military steps in the region and it is truly destabilizing. this is something that china, for all of our disagreements with them, have come around on much closer to the u.s. view on nr north korea now. it is unsettling. as you look at the iran nuclear
deal, it's a model going forward there. because a lot have concerns about iran's nuclear potential. they look to north korea and say, listen, you've made deals in the past before and look what happened under cover. so, you know, it's alarming whether it's something that they would follow through on, that's more in the category of bluster, but it does change the calculus on the ground in that region in a threatening way. >> of course, as has to be said a lot with north korea, is this more saber rattling and when does it reach that level. the question now is, is the administration responding to what this north korea, what this guy is really kind of laying out there? >> i doubt that they'll respond specifically to that comment, they'll put it more in the category of bluster. in terms of the threat from north korea, it's something they take seriously. >> will has amazing access in north korea. the north koreans are letting him in for some reason. any sense of why? >> this is clearly a message they want to get out there on
this nuclear threat. they want to respond to the charges for instance of the assassinations or the executions, rather, of senior officials. they want to get a message out, that's what they'll do. >> all right, jim sciutto, thank you for joining us and thank you, all, for joining us. >> "legal view" with ashleigh banfield starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com hello, everyone, i'm ashleigh banfield. welcome to "legal view." the life and death face for dzhokhar tsarnaev. the defense may rest its case as early as today. the vote from the jury has to be unanimous. even if one juror decides against the death penalty, we're going to show you where he'd spend the rest of his life. it is the super max in florence, colorado, known as alcatraz of the rockies. make no