tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN May 27, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
testing here. >> others have challenging the pedestrian system for laughs. even using humans dresses as dummies. but that was nothing compared to the crash course these guys got. jeanne moos cnn, new york. >> i test drove one of those things and i prefer the brake. thanks for joining us. ac360 starts now. >> good evening. thanks for joining us. how crooks are using your identity to steal those who lost their jobs. the government could stop it. and tonight the cdc and the pentagon are scrambling to contain the fallout of a potentially deadly error. the u.s. military mistakingly shipping anthrax to nine states and a air base in south korea.
and it is considered highly lethal and not ever supposed to happen and safeguards are supposed to be in place. and jim sciutto joins me with the latest. what do we know about the mistake. >> it is an almost inexplicable failure. four workers have put under post exposure theemt to anthrax. this does show the level of concern it. was a site in maryland that tested the sample and found out it was live and raised at letter for the eight other states. but a foreign base in korea and stated the remaining samples in utah and they were live to all of the samples were live and it is a breach in regard to danger samples like this are. >> so is there any risk to the general public because of this?
>> there is a protocol for live samples and these were believed not to be live and the protocol they were shipped under that there is no risk to be a risk to the public but this is raising questions at the highest levels of the pentagon and there is an investigation under way to see how this happened. >> thanks. and from bad bacteria to big bucks, a new kind of identity theft that you need to know about on top of a similar crime in the headlines. cyber crooks stealing tax returns and sources telling us that the breach other nailed -- originated in russia. and the scam happening in every country to the tune of $5.4 billion and could you be a victim and not know about it.
from drew griffin. >> it is a routine traffic stop in south florida. >> driver step on out. this suspect kayy -- carrying a counterfeit credit card. >> you are under possession for a krounter fit -- counter fit credit card. >> it is a identity fraud tsunami targeting a bigger pile of money, unemployment benefits swindled using your stolen identity and government agencies that seem powerless to stop it. the north miami beach police department said gangs are turning there cocaine and marijuana to fraud, and thieves use atms and stolen identity to cash in on unemployment benefits sent on debit cards like these. >> fraud is better than drugs on the street no doubt about it. >> because? >> easy money and less work. >> unemployment benefit theft is a multi-billion dollar illegal
industry stolen under the nose of the very government handing it out, and yes, anyone can be a victim even detectives on a police force. >> someone scammed my identity and filed for unemployment. >> detective cora man investigated crimes for police but for three months a crime stolen her identity and filed for unemployment and receiving $3,000 worth of unemployment benefits in her name. >> were you shocked at how easy that took place, considering that you were working the whole time? >> i was astonished how easy that took place and i'm here every day working 60 hours a week and i'm getting unemployment claims filed in my name. >> it is all in the 15-25-year-old street gang members. and they are using the stolen identity to get unemployment
funds. >> and soon police raided there south florida home and confiscating information for more than 1,000 people and three people were arrested including a juvenile. two adult brothers have pled no contest and await sentencing. no one wanted to talk to us when we showed up including this man wrapped in a bed sheet who tried to block us from shooting the address and mailbox. >> get out of here. i don't want to answer your questions. >> it is happening in every state. unemployment benefit fraud, including identity theft, is costing the nation an estimated $5.6 billion a year. the u.s. labor department called the program at risk for sending out improper payments and the number one reason they get away from it no one in government seems to check if the person filing for unemployment is
really unemployed. wilfredo fer air is the u.s. attorney for southern florida. >> that seems to be a simple basic step, and why isn't it happening? >> because the state and federal programs were designed based on trust. a lot of the programs did not anticipate we would face a tsunami of fraud around the country and in south florida. >> his office tested the florida system and found the state makes it easy. a name, date of birth and social security and a driver's license number and a series of questions establishing identity is all that is needed and the money is flowing on to a state issued debit card or a bank account. how is that possible? we asked jesse, who oversees the state unemployment benefits. >> one of the things in modern society we want is the claimants to have a society that is fast
and efficient for them. >> states are under a mandate to get unemployment checks out within two weeks and that has left the state of florida to unable to claim whether the claims are real. >> and does that stop fraud? >> there is a balance. making sure you are efficient and getting all of the checks. >> in a 15-month span, they caught or stopped 97,000 false claims for benefits preventing $400 million in fraud but he has no idea how many fraudulent claims his office didn't catch. he raised this letter to tom perez warning that organized criminal elements have begun attacking public benefit systems on a daily basis. cnn reached out to the u.s. labor secretary who first agreed to an interview and then his office abruptly canceled the
only explanation from a staffer, saying something about our story didn't quote, pass the smell test. instead of answering tough questions we were sent a statement saying the department of labor is fighting fraud with $625 million to modernize and update computer systems, new technology to improve prevention and detection of improper payments and creating a web based processing system that allowed verification of a claimant's eligibility. saying there is no place for fraud and abuse in the ui program. >> and the police detective, while she was working, someone was basically stealing her unemployment benefits? >> it is a system designed to push the money out first, ask questions later and in that instance it took the state three months is this detective really
unemployed and by then the crooks had $3,000 of unemployment benefits. >> and the labor secretary doesn't want to talk to you about how to stop the fraud. i don't get that. >> i don't get it either. this money comes out of our paychecks. this is taxed money. we want to know what is going on with this money. this cabinet secretary and others at the v.a. will not sit down to face tough questions. they hide behind public affairs office that sent out statements but no tough questions. and this is a tough question. where is this money goes and why aren't they stopping it. >> it is amazing when public servants refuse to answer questions. if they have nothing to hide and know the answers why not sit down. it is not as if -- i don't get it. we'll keep after them. drew griffin. thank you very much. up next. more breaking news. right now new weather warnings in texas and oklahoma to tell you about. the rivers running high again
and more heart acas more miss robert griffin iii located. and later. ten years after natalee holloway disappears in aruba and a private investigator about a possible new clue that might provide answers they've been waiting a decade for. you probably know xerox as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you're ready for real business. let's take a look at your credit.
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county and in the city of warden on the colorado river. and in dallas the trinity river is running 7 feet above flood stage and is expected to remain there into tomorrow morning. and in houston, the number of damages buildings is raised from 1400 to 4,000. and the number of missing people was raised because more bodies are being found. and anna joins us along the blanco river in wimberley. >> nine cabins were found mutilated, twisted metal and toppled furniture. this family has had the property for years and never seen anything like this. normally the river stays way down there but some people couldn't escape and of the 12 people still missing tonight, nine are from this area. >> oh, my god. >> reporter: it has been four
days since the floodwaters rose in texas. and for the families of those still missing, four days of agony mixed with hope. >> we're optimistic they may show up. >> we're hoping and praying that miracles will happen and we're very optimistic but at the same time very realistic in this situation. >> reporter: joe mccomb's family were thrown in the blanco river after their house was ripped off the foundation. >> and john said as they were floating down the river the house ran into a bridge and the house just shattered and the floodwaters and the volume and the speed it was coming it just started to wash all of them in all different directions. >> jonathan was listed as missing but miraculously was found. according to his father 12 miles away from where his house once stood with a collapsed lung
and broken sternum. his wife and children are still missing. five more listed as missing were in the same ill-fated house. friends of the macomb. ralph, michelle and their 6-year-old son also named william. >> there were nine in the house and he is the only one that made it out and accounted for. so that is taking a toll on him emotionally and psychologically. >> authorities reported late today that the body of michelle has been found. the rest of her family are still missing. one ray of home the mccomb family dog maggie was found in a tree near the river and nowing with treat -- and now being treated by vetd nairans. and kenneth riceig was last seen here. about ten miles way, 74-year-old dayton harry thomas was last seen in his home. >> he will be missed. it is very tragic to know how he
died too. we think he died. he is missing now. >> reporter: and yesterday in the suburb of houston, the car of alex tovar was sub meshlged with the driver nowhere to be found. and tonight the driver and others continue to search for missing. >> she's cold and she's wet, she belongs at home and that's where we're trying to get her. >> i feel for the others going through the same situation and may god be on their shoulder. >> it is so sad. what is the biggest threat right now? >> well the problem anderson is the isolated thunderstorms that could pop up anywhere at any time and they dump a tremendous amount of water that creates problems because the ground is already so saturated and the community here in wimberley is concerned that the river behind me could rise again. even though this one has receded
for,000, other rivers are continuing to rise. you mentioned wharton texas, southeast of here the colorado river is expected to reach above flood stage tonight. that is before they get additional rainfall and could peak sometime on friday or even into the weekend. so the flood threat remains across much of texas for the next several days anderson. >> anna cabrera. thank you. and last night, gary tuchman steps into the floodwaters and you could sense the floodwaters and if it could pick up a home and carry it downstream and break it into pieces and today larry got a rescue from the best we spoke to him yesterday, the man doing a very difficult and very danger job. >> respecting the power of the water. that is what anybody training to save lives on the river has to accept as a bedrock principal. the man in the water is captain jay horton one of the nation's
top swift water rescue efforts. >> you have to have the training and the equipment. if you don't have the training and you don't have the equipment, don't go in. >> captain horton is about to put me through the initial training he gives to firefighters. >> i bet your firefighters don't get that kind of attention. >> other life saving supplies attached attached. first, the entrance into the water. >> we're going in with a lifeguard entry. and it is an ugly looking dive because you are hitting like a duck coming in for a landing. you keep your head up so you can keep eye visual contact with your victim. >> so i do the duck dive. >> once in the water with the currents rescuers go knee what is call -- go into what is called the survival mode. >> i'm going into trees and rocks and i want to catch it with the more powerful legs. >> so we head over the water
fall. >> here i go. >> the idea to keep your head above water and try not to spin around. maintain control, keep your legs forward. >> this is probably the number one rescue device that we use most often to save people. >> this is the throw bag. >> this is the throw bag. >> inside 65 feet of rope. i play the victim. i went over the waterfall and the bag is thrown. it is a complete pass. >> the currents are dangerous. around branches and garbage in the bottom of the water and you tire quickly and then can you be in trouble and in good weather, it is good to stay away from bodies of water with these kind of currents. >> you hook this up and lock it
in and then get out here on this perch. are we ready? >> i'm the victim. there will be two rescuers. and it is called a live bait technique. >> captain horton is tethered to a rope being held on shore by another firefighter. he is swimming out to get me before i head over the next waterfall. the rescue and today's lesson both successful. >> we're trying to get the victim out of there but we can't allow them to kill our rescue. so we have to go in there with the knowledge and with the training and with the experience so that everybody goes home at the end of the day. >> and i remember one of the things he was saying last night, if you don't have the gear firefighters go into the water and with the firefighter helmet if it gets under the current it can break somebody's neck if the water is moving fast enough. the water looks rough even after the river is receding how do
they do this at night when the visibility is so low? >> at night it is absolutely much more treacherous but you have to stick to the same principals face out of the water, lyon your back feet forward to act as a shield. and behind me the river's currents are still sfrong even though -- strong even though it is below flood stage now. but one thing that investigators and authority and people who work in the water say you can't think to do a crawl, the fastest way on the stomach, your face will go under water and your head can get hurt. >> incredible the power of the water. just ahead, ten years after the disappearance of the possible leads, a live update from aruba and i'll speak with natalee holloway's father.
and the quadruple murder in washington, d.c. and who beyond the main suspect that authorities think might have been involved. you probably know xerox as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done
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this weekend marks ten years since natalee holloway disappears and there have been fall hopes and leads and the last person she was a -- she was seen with was arrested and released and arrested and released again. and her father has beenhired a private investors and now the latest information in the investigation. martin savidge reports. >> in the ten years since natalee holloway has vanished in aruba, her faerk has -- her father has never stopped looking for her. it has been dead ends. >> i've searched ponds -- settlement -- cemeteries. i probably know the terrain
better than the locals. >> she was seen with two, a dutch nationals, and the son of a judge, van der sloot. and then the story changes. the brothers said she was dropped off at a different hotel. and then he said that is where he left her, on this beach, alive and well. >> hundreds of tourists and locals search for her. authorities detain a number of people and then let them go. dutch fighter jets are flown overhead scanning with sensors. nothing is found. many including her father, believe natalee is the victim of foul play. van der sloot is never charged and then three years later he gets a call from a mysterious man saying i know where her body
is hidden and my thought is this is another crazy. >> you have had a lot of those in the story? >> quite a few. >> holloway dismisses the lead and the years drag on. in 2010, van der sloot is convicted of the murder of 21-year-old stephany flores ramirez in peru. five years to the day natalee holloway vanished. to holloway it is more proof that van der sloot is responsible for his daughter's disappearance but no closer to finding her. in 2012, a judge legally declared natalee dead. then in march he gets a phone call from a dutch journalist who tells him of an amazing lead. an eyewitness to his daughter's death. >> did you know who he was referring to? >> i did not. i said who are you referring to and he brought me up to date and i said that sounds like the same guy who contacted me back in
2008. >> and just as in 2008, they say she is buried on land. after years of disappointment holloway is afraid to believe it. >> i thoughtive can't go here because i've gone through so many of these where they had details and facts and it turned out to be nothing. >> so he asked a private investigator to check it out and he calls back. >> he said hey, dave the guy passed the voice analysis test and i thought oh, my gosh. >> now, for the first time in nearly a decade the dad who never gave up dares to hope he may finally bring his daughter back home. >> and martin savidge joins me from aruba. what do we know about this witness? how credible is he? >> amazing story. we are standing in front of the hotel where natalee holloway stayed ten years ago. young is his name and he lives
in amsterdam and he is dutch and was here in 2005 and he has a criminal past but he has come back time and time again to the holloway family and the authorities trying to convince him what he saw is really what happened. but the problem is a lot of people and believe she ended up in the ocean and no one wants to hear otherwise. and when we heard this we flew to amsterdam and we sit down and question him and grill him and you decide whether what he said you think is really true. anderson. >> we look forward to that tomorrow. and joining me now are natalee's father and the lee investigator tj ward working with the family since her disappearance. does it seem like its been ten years for you, dave? it has to be hard for you to come prehence that dave?
>> we went through that. in 2005-2008 was toughest because it just happened and you start to go through an emotional type of closure. >> is such say thing possible. i think closure is sort of a word people use in tv a lot. but you never move on from it fully? >> you try to get close. basically what we did is we tried to come up with a theory of what we thought happened and then went through some legal processes where we had her der laired -- declared deceased and after he was put in prison for the murder of another girl that put closure on things for our family. >> when you found out he killed another girl and going to serve so much time what went through your mind? >> well i knew based on his personality and what we've seen so far, that he's going to do it again to some innocent girl. and then here we have it -- it
did happen. >> does it feel like a little bit of justice? >> you try to satisfy yourself in your own mind that he is in jail it is not for natalee but he has to think about it. >> this trip that you just took down there with tj i want to talk about that. first of all, there is a witness who i guess had contacted you back in 2008. tj do you believe this witness is credible? >> i had an opportunity to speak to this witness several times and i was able to take his transmission from a 40-minute conversation and from the conversation from doing an analysis on it i determined he is being truthful from what he saw and he knows. >> and so you went down just recently. what were you able to see and what were you able to do? >> we wanted to see what the marriott hotel looked like and just kind of see if we could believe his story. >> because he said that she was very -- buried under a staircase
where the marriott is now. >> the foundation. and i wanted to see what the area looked like and we did take a surface cadaver dog in hopes of getting lucky but we were not allowed to see the area in question. >> do you think about giving up? >> no. sometimes i have to do a self-check and think am going more on what most people would do and i have to look in the mirror and say i couldn't pass it up and hi to go and i think that is what most every parent would do as well. you just can't let it go. >> what do you want people to remember about natalee when they think about her and a lot of people obviously still pray for her and pray for your family and think about her, people know her name around the world. what do you want people to remember when they think of her name. >> i just want everyone to know
you have kids in a house hold and you can preach to them and preach to them and preach to them about safety and bad things do happen. and this is one of them. but natalee is one of those kids that was a model student and had her life planned out. >> she wanted to be a doctor. >> she wanted to be a doctor and she knew where she was going in life. and you look at situations like ours and they study so hard and graduate expect them to go to college and boom missing. boom i feel for her because of the hard work as well. >> do you believe one day you will have an answer. >> i do. i always thought it would be around the corner and here we are ten years later. and one of these days we finally will. this could be one of them in this situation here or it may not be. >> i hope you get an answer. thank you so much for talk to us. and tj as well. >> as martin savidge said
you'll meet the alleged witness on the program tomorrow. new details tbts about the man accused of killing a wealthy washington couple their young son and housekeeper after holding them hostage. he once worked at the family's company but he was far from a model employee. you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather. well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. bring us your aching and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again with aleve pm. ♪ no artificial flavors, colors sweeteners preservatives, and no artificial smiles. because clean dressings, taste better. ♪
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tonight we're getting new details about the man dharnled -- the man charged with murdering a wealthy family after holding them hostage inside of their washington mansion. police say this is not a random crime. the alleged killer worked at the business the family once owned. and now we're learning what kind of family he was. pamela brown has the latest. >> and tonight we're learning about the connection wint had to
american iron works. he worked as a welder and a source said he has not a good employee and had a bad attitude. constantly changing positions within the company. it is uncleared whether he was fired or left on his own in 2005. his cousin also worked for the company around the same time. tonight we learned police are looking at one of his cousins with him during his arrest last thursday. it is unclear if it is the same cousin who worked at aiw. d.c. police continue to investigate two of the women who were also there. according to police documents, one of the women admitted to purchasing money orders after the murders. they were released from police custody after less than 24 hours have have not -- have not been charged with the crime. >> it does not mean that the released persons are no longer of interest to the police. i won't say they are completely off the hook yet. >> still of mystery, in this surveillance video seen fleeing
the family porsche. someone with well groomed hair a complete different description of wint. and in "the washington post" on tuesday, the savopoulos the 10-year-old son, was known as flip and the husband, loved the arts and amy was an active volunteer at the schools and the two daughters were away at boarding schools. >> that is the tragedy, the focus for the family after they get the questions out, the survivors, the two daughters and without patients and-- parents and a brother. that is hard to imagine. >> and it certainly is. pamela join us. what do you know about the construction vest in the family
gather and -- garage and believed to be worn. >> they believe american iron works, save app loss does not have a knee on lime green construction vest as part of the uniform, similar to that found in the garage and the driver had the short, well groomed hair. and we learned from talking to neighbors, there was paving taking place around the family home leading up to the murders and we don't know if that is connected but police were watching activity around the home and no forced rentry so -- entry so it stands to reason that perhaps the suspects wore the vests into the home. >> and i want to bring in analyst harry houck. so these vests are not the
company vests, that were found and the driver of the stolen porch had short hair. eyewitness testimony is notoriously flawed so i guess police have to go on that the idea that they had short hair. >> exactly. the fact is the car was recovered. and i don't know if the vest was recovered inside of the car so they can match if it was destroyed in the fire. the match to what was found in the garage. that is an important factor. and they might have saw the construction workers out on the street wearing that same color and used that as a ruse to get into the house. >> and investigators are looking at the cousin of daron wint who also had been an employee at the construction company and with him at the time he was apprehended. >> and i remember when they released the people with daron wint very quickly, less than 24 hours. >> and i was shocked about that.
the only thing i can think is they turned. they are cooperating with the police and therefore they let them go. because the female who bought the money orders she knew the money was from the murder. they've been looking for this guy for a week and why wasn't she held. she's helping him money launder and why wasn't she arrested. all i can think is maybe they are all cooperating with the police. that is all i can think of. >> there is so much we don't know and so many unanswered questions. and the man under the surveillance video, police do not believe it is daron wint but how do they know that for sure. >> they don't know for sure because he did have a hoodie on. but we have the fire at about 1:30 in the afternoon and the vehicle was found in flames around 5:30 where did the car go for four hours? it is interesting.
and why would anyone wear a vest and drive like a maniac in a porsche porsche, driving attention to them for four hours. clearly strange. >> and they'll be looking for where that video went for four hours. i appreciate you being on. and a scare mid-flight. a jet dropped 13,000 feet with both engines failed. details ahead. i'm louis, and i quit smoking with chantix. i told myself for so long that i needed to quit smoking. i would quit then i'd go right back to it. chantix absolutely helped me quit smoking. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix helped reduce my urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some people had seizures while taking chantix.
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sad news out of texas. the search for a woman whose car foud submerged. alice tovar, ktrk reporting her car has been recovered. she was 73 years old. half-way around the world, a harrowing flight aboard a singapore air boss when there was no power from either engine. >> singapore airlines flight was flying with 194 on board when both engines went out. the sudden loss of power at 39,000 feet as the jetliner passed through bad weather. the aircraft dropped 13,000 feet within seconds. >> the pilot has to put the plane in a dive and that wind going through the engines spins the turbines and gets a rehive-light
and getting the fuel burning you have to sustain the engines so it is a tricky maneuver. >> the singapore airlines said one engine regained power while pilots worked on the second. >> it is something they are trained to do and in all cases on all plane trz is a -- there is a point at which you don't try any more diving restarts just look for a place to set it down. >> this is the latest of several incidents involving asian airlines. flight 235 crashed into a river in thigh won. in december flight 8501 an airbus crashed into the java sea minutes after the pilot asked for clearance to climb in altitude to avoid bad weather.
and malaysia flight 370 from beijing disappeared without a trace more than a year ago. but the safety record is one to brag about for singapore, this year rated one of the top ten safest airlines. >> this was a brand new plane, not even a year old. the airline found no anomaly, but bad weather could cause engines to flame out. it is not clear if that happened here. a full investigation is now underway. but nevertheless the aircraft was put back into service a few hours later. >> that must be terrifying. renee, appreciate the reporting. is more happening now. amber walker has a ac360 bulletin. >> fifa is under fire. nine officials have been indicted by the u.s. justice department. five corporate executives are also charged. they face racketeering and
corruption and charges involving an alleged $150 million in bribes and kickbacks. comedian tracy morgon has settled with wal-mart over a deadly accident that left him seriously injured. nearly a year ago a speeding wal-mart truck slammed into his limo bus on the new jersey turnpike killing his friend. and a demonstration of a driver assistance feature on a volvo suv didn't go as planned when the vehicle crashed into the journalist gathered to watch. the video was billed on you tube as a self-parking accident but volvo believed it was a test of the suv's pedestrian detection system which wasn't installed on the suv in question and that is why the men were hit but they are okay. >> and coming up something to make you smile and this one might also make you -- i don't know -- queasy. i think you'll like it.
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time now for the ridiculist. and with the start of summer upon us meem with cooking out and enjoying the out doors with not a care in the world which is the back drop for tonight's story for a town not far from trenton, new jersey. there they gathered to celebrate a party. and they were playing horseshoes and good old-fashioned fun when this happened. >> out of nowhere from the sky comes a bunch of feces and lands on here very hard. >> this was a young lady's 16th birthday party. i hesitate to call it sweet 16 since feces rains down on the pool and the canopy in the backyard the sweetness tends to dissipate. this is not all bad news.
there is one stroke of good luck. >> we took the cake back in because something fell from the sky. it was brown and it was everywhere. it got on everything. >> we get it. we know what it looks like. it is like one of those unfortunately story. the weather was great. but human waste fell from the sky. take your pick. fortunately the cake was back inside but that doesn't mean people were done eating. >> i was eating cake and i heard a big splat and it was gross. >> it looks like if 100 birds flew over and went to the bathroom simultaneously that is what it looked like. >> we got the image. nothing turned happy birthday into you than ---y birthday to you doo doo. and so they discovered on an app several planes were flying over. they are not supposed to empty
their facilities like thatba it is more plausible than a massive flying bird dump. the faa is investigating. i don't know how. so we'll keep you posted on that on the ridiculist. do you think they are examining said droplets? we'll see you again at 1:00 p.m. for dna maybe? 1:00 p.m. eastern either edition of ac360. anthony bourdain parts unknown starts right now. ♪