fully reveal any of the details. this morning fear that up to 22 air force personnel may have been exposed to anthrax at an air base in south korea. an investigation now under way as officials at osan air base say an army lab in utah inadvertently shipped live anthrax samples to them and facilities in nine states over the past few days. 22 people now being monitored in south korea join four workers in the u.s. who have received preventive post-exposure treatment. a lab in maryland was the first to report receiving the live bacteria last friday after handling the samples. the question now, how could this have happened? >> it's a great question. that's exactly why we brought in the center for disease control. and their investigators.
>> the centers for disease control now investigating as officials reveal samples were shipped under less rigorous conditions since it was believed the bacteria was dead. nbc news reporting fed ex transported the samples. fed ex tells cnn they're working with officials to gather information. >> no known risk to the general public and no suspected or confirmed cases of anthrax infection. >> this comes less than a year after a similar mishap at the centers for disease control. they shipped what they thought was dead agent so several locations and it was not. it was live anthrax. alisyn. >> all right. they have got to figure that one out. barbara, thanks so much for that update. we have some breaking news this morning. the new york city police department and other law enforcement agencies across the country ramping up surveillance on suspected isis sympathizers in the u.s. cnn's justice reporter evan perez is here with all the developing details. what do we know evan? >> good morning, alisyn.
there are hundreds of suspected isis supporters in america. and the fbi says it can't keep an eye on all of them. now police departments including here in new york are stepping in to increase their surveillance of people who are potential isis terrorists. law enforcement officials tell cnn the fbi surveillance squads are tapped out, not enough of them to track people using social media and talking to isis members overseas. the fear is that those people could be plotting an attack here. we asked the fbi director james comey about this yesterday. >> it is an incredibly difficult task that we are enlisting all of our state and local and federal partners in. and we're working on it every single day. but i can't stand here with any high confidence when i confront a world that'sin creasingly dark to me and tell you i've got it all covered. >> now, the change in strategy is part of the fallout from the foiled terrorist attack a few weeks ago in garland, texas. two gunmen inspired by isis tried to attack a prophet muhammad cartoon contest. now, they were killed by police but law enforcement officials
tell me that one of the gunmen elton simpson, was under fbi surveillance. but it wasn't 24/7. fbi agents lost track of him for a few days. but the fbi had no idea that he was on his way to texas to carry out his attack chris. >> and then evan, they got really close on the timing. they wound up alerting local authorities but not in time. now we see this change. is this going to be what bridges the gap? let's bring in a cnn national security analyst who worked in the department of homeland security. let's give the plus/minus on this. why is this good news. >> well because the fbi is acknowledging what it has sort of what's obvious in this world in the post 9/11 world and what isis looks like. which is membership in isis now is anyone who says they're a member. it's too many people. so they need to work with local and state officials to figure out what's going on. the bad news is of course there's too many people. and this notion of membership in terrorist organizations, a
notion we used to think of being quite formal and we could figure out who these guys are now is just a movement. it's very hard to track a movement. and every person that's online figuring out whether they want to be a member of isis or not. so it's good news/bad news at this stage. >> the proof of the bad news is what we saw in garland texas. the fbi got information to local authorities but not quickly enough chlgt you wound up having those two fools trying to do something terrible and they got stopped. but we were probably lucky there. does that prove this isn't the fix? >> i don't think so. garland is such a weird example in so many ways because it was sort of a bullseye. in fact i sort of look at garland as bad news. how would we not have seen this coming given that this organization was sort of you know -- we all knew that the garland event was going to be a target. so the fact they couldn't stop it even beforehand i think suggests how limited resources are for preventing attacks like this. and we don't normally get instances like garland.
most instances are sort of random day and potential isis member will attack. so we've got to engage local and state officials, community members and of course communities of interest who might see radicalization in their own communities. that's the only way you're really going to be able to target this. the government resources are limited and maybe not the most effective for the kind of recruitment isis is doing. >> two other quick takes on security strategies. first, something else we saw in garland, texas. allowing not to show the picture or image of muhammad the media doesn't do it we don't encourage it here. is that caving in or being cautious? >> no i don't think it's either. i mean in some ways chris, i just think it's sort of respect for any religion in the same way that you don't sort of just randomly show pictures of desecrations of jesus christ. i think it's just a responsible journalism. and to do otherwise i think is
just playing into the hands of i don't want to say extremists on the other side but those who sort of hate islam or are very afraid of islam and want to sort of generate a lot of unease. so i sort of agree with cnn in this regard. it's no point. it's just not news. >> and then we get to the biggest issue on the table which is at the same time you had the head of the fbi saying there are too many people. i need help. i got to go to local law enforcement. you've got the reconsideration of the nsa laws and you're going to take away a tool that many in your line of work say they really need which is bulk collection of data. is this the right time to balance privacy and the ability to probe the way they're planning to do it? >> no. and this is no way to figure out what sort of resources are available to the fbi after suntd when it expires. the bulk issue we're going to have to come to a compromise. there has to be better oversight of it. i think the obama administration
has come to that conclusion. the thing people have to remember is that there are other provisions that are going to expire that are less controversial than the bulk provision including the basic fact that we want our fbi agents to be able to survey phone lines and phone numbers of a specific terrorist. the law's written in a way that the fbi has to get new survey surveillance rules for each different phone number. we want it the fbi can follow the guy any number he uses. there are other parts of the provision getting lost in the news story that we have definitely got to expand or continue on past sunday. so there has to be a resolution otherwise it's no way to run national security. >> so don't get caught up just in bulk collection of data when there's so much else in the patriot act that needs to be reassessed and maybe reactivated. juliette kayyem thank you. now to the battle to retake parts of iraq seized by isis. iraqi forces not only fighting
to retake ramadi they are also locked in intense battle for a key oil refinery which has potential to turn into an environmental catastrophe. cnn international correspondent granted rare access to the front lines in baiji and joins us live. nick. >> reporter: baiji is so vital for the attack potentially in the future against mosul that's nearby. but also in cutting off a supply route. the first target that iraq mentioned would be on its list when trying to clean out anbar where ramadi is. and we got access ourselves to iraqi special forces on the front line there. this is just a taste of how pock liptic it could get. oil refinery already choking on smoke. part of this huge complex is still held by isis. shia fighters filmed this tuesday. the months long fight here slowed by fears of the ecological chaos isis could wreak if they scorch and burn here as they retreat.
iraqi special forces took us to their front line defending the ruins of a house that a coalition air strike pushed isis out of. they are from the elite golden division. their ramadi colleagues part of the troops the u.s. said lacked the will to fight. that line of buildings over there is isis' closest position. and during a thick sandstorm here they used the cover of it to advance within 20 meters of here. when the sandstorm subsided suddenly a fire fight began. [ gunfire ] we don't know why they start shooting what they may have seen. isis a few in number here they say but willing to die and have a sniper nearby. or maybe they more want to show us and even washington they very much do want to fight.
it's not logical and wrong, he says of the american criticism because anywhere in ramadi mosul or baiji, anywhere duty calls we fight. [ gunfire ] their gunfire grows. and usually it's mortars that isis fire back. so we pull out. more ammunition some american is arriving at their base but the fight will be a slow encirclement we're told. the reason we want to surround them is we must clean up the area properly with specialist engineers because it has fuel but also booby-traps. isis part of bag datd's new plan for ramadi but a slow grind, mindful that iraq needs something to live off if isis ever leaves. now, when we were there we had reports of six iraqi police being killed by simply taking
the wrong road. it's clearly an active front line but there are two issues really facing all operations now in iraq. the first is how fast do they move. in baiji they have a key issue about trying to stop the knee listic people of isis causing a disaster in their wake. iraqi forces trained adequately with the mission they need with the people they need to do the job, but they also have shia fighters alongside of them. that complicated significantly more around ramadi where all those groups have to be on the same page to launch a successful offensive against groups like isis so well-equipped and day by day better dug into ramadi. alisyn. >> nick so important for us to be able to see what's going on on the ground there. thank you for your reporting. back here at home flood-ravaged texas could be in for more rain this weekend. with the colorado and brassos river still rising, officials
urging anyone who lives anywhere near them to evacuate now. rescue crews still searching for the missing. let's go to hard-hit wimberley texas with cnn's jennifer gray. tell us what the scene is this morning. >> reporter: we're standing in front of the blanco river. and the sound of the water a scary reminder of what happened here over the weekend. you see these trees behind me. they were completely submerged in water during the worst part of the flood. of course searchers will be out once again today still searching for those nine missing as the stories are still coming out of what happened during the flood. >> oh no! >> reporter: new dramatic video revealing the power of the deadlydead li deadly flash floods in texas. the water from the blanco river swelled by the storms on saturday fills the entire ground floor of this vacation home in seconds. authorities recovering the body of a child near its banks wednesday as the death toll rises across texas and oklahoma.
>> it's very thick and wooded in some parts making the search much more difficult. >> reporter: just south of houston the body of 73-year-old alice tovar found by her brother-in-law after she was separated from her car swept away by the ravaging flood waters. >> i'm glad we found her. didn't have to leave her out there. it's a relief. >> reporter: this as the frantic search for the missing continues. but the severe weather danger isn't over. a tornado hit an oil rig in northwestern texas wednesday resulting in several serious injuries. >> take the heed and the warning. get out now. >> reporter: residents just south of houston now leaving on a voluntary evacuation as flash flood watches continue to span central and northern texas up through kansas until sunday. and the rivers all across this region are filled to capacity. some of them still overflowing their banks. and so the last thing you want
to hear is more rain. of course more rain is in the forecast though. this region expected to get about an inch or less. areas to our north though could possibly get higher amounts. and then we always know chris, that you could get caught in one of those isolated downpours where we could see isolated amounts even higher. so people really need to be on guard this weekend and pay attention, know if those flood warnings pop up seek higher ground immediately, chris. >> we will stay on it. thank you, jennifer. we have breaking news this morning, a leader of the north african terror group al shabaab has reportedly died in somalia. he was wanted in connection with united states terror attacks in the 1998 embassy bombings. now he had transitioned from being a leading military figure into a spiritual figure head after suffering a sickness. russian president vladimir putin says the emerging fifa scandal will have no impact on
his country's plans to host the 2018 world cup despite accusations fifa officials were paid off to host certain countries. officials say the investigation has only just begun. 14 people stand accused for million -- all eyes on this man, sepp blatter who is not facing charges at this time but is set for re-election perhaps tomorrow. >> we will hear more about this story in the coming days i'm quite certain. >> his big defense right now is he says i welcome this. we started this investigation. but evan perez gave you guys a good hint yesterday that the person they put in charge a former federal prosecutor they didn't like what he found. so there's going to be a thread of that story that continues. >> we'll follow that. meanwhile a new poll to tell you about of presidential hopefuls. it will surprise you. wait until you see who is tied with whom. and a provocative question, is the flooding in texas and record rainfall there just mother nature or are we to blame? could it be climate change?
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if you look at what i had to do when i left the race i have seven kids. i had to go to work. i had to provide food for my family. and i wasn't in front of your tv very often over the last three years. i just couldn't be. >> that was rick santorum moments after getting into the race telling cnn why his poll numbers are underwhelming at the moment. but let's look at this new quinnipiac poll that shows jeb bush ben carson mike huckabee marco rubio and scott walker all tied. here to weigh in on this cnn political analyst and editor and chief of the daily beast john avlon and sirius xm host margaret hoover. hi guys. >> good morning. >> let's pull up that quinnipiac poll again. margaret it's interesting that jeb bush, the presumptive leader for a long time is tied with somebody like ben carson who is new to politics. >> what this shows is who has been front and center on republican primary voters minds -- hearts and minds in the last six months.
ben carson wrote a book he's been doing the book tour going to all the early states. jeb bush has name recognition. mike huckabee has been on fox news and in front of all those conservative voters. marco rubio is a really a conservative star on the republican side. and so is scott walker by the way who had three elections in four years and has been actually getting a lot of support from the national republican donor base in order to beat off the unions. so these are all people who are front and center of the conservative primary. >> margaret says front and center is this an awareness poll more than a whom do you want to vote for poll? >> all polls at this stage i think it's fair to say are awareness polls. what's significant isn't just the depth of the fragmentation on the republican side and the people you don't see in this poll like ted cruz who certainly have awareness benefits. but how low that threshold is and how the people actually who have a real built-in advantage like a jeb bush from a name id haven't really been able to outpace, you know relatively no-name candidates.
the other big takeaway from this poll is versus hillary clinton, which is the ultimate general election gut check, the people who are closest to her within striking distance are rubio and rand paul. that's significant to me because that's a whole different consideration set. that's about electability in a general. >> just remind people at home who actually is in the race let's do that right now. look at the candidates who have thus far thrown their hats in the ring. so as of yesterday it was rick santorum mike huckabee ben carson carly fiorina, this is the gop side marco rubio, rand paul ted cruz. now, here's who's coming up. george pataki today. he will be announcing in new hampshire. lindsey graham expected on june 1st in south carolina. and then rick perry is expected june 4th in texas. will any of these sort of mix it up and change the equation? >> i think each of them contributes something significant to the race. i think lindsey graham is going to come in and just be all foreign policy all the time in a way to counteract what he sees as rand paul's contribution or what he disagrees with so
vehemently about what rand paul stands for in terms of foreign policy stance on the republican side. george pataki i think is going to add a different version of the republican to the dynamic which frankly is needed on the republican side. in so many ways you have republicans all saying the same thing when it comes to fiscal policy and social policy. it will be great to have a pro-choice same-sex marriage supporter in the race just for diversity sake if for no other reason. >> do you have like two different flavors of inadequate going on here? on the republican side you've got like 100 people really should put up a list who isn't in the race probably be shorter. and then on the democrat side you really have them putting all their chips on hillary. it's great to hear bernie sanders out there making the case for what he thinks is important. starting to get a little bit of other voices there maybe. but it's like you have a really big difference on each side of strategies. >> it is a stunningly contrast because also parties have reversed roles. traditionally republicans all lined behind conventional front
runner and one or two other candidates to provide alternative. and the democrats have this wide open field because it's going to go to the hot hand. totally reverse character transplant for the two parties in this race. and there are deep deficiencies with both choices. >> but the reason for that is that democrats have been in power for the last eight years. democrats want to hold onto power, they're picking their safest bet to do that. republicans want to win so they want to examine everybody thoroughly to figure out who is the best person to take back the white house. >> let's talk about carly fiorina. she's sort of putting it out to voters that i'm the other woman in the race. you doept have to choose hillary clinton if that's what you're voting on. so supporters surrounded her yesterday. and they suggested that she was following mrs. clinton around because hillary clinton was also in south carolina. and carly fiorina got a little testy about that. so here's her response. >> i planned this trip many many many weeks ago. so perhaps she's following me. i have never been following mrs.
clinton. >> perhaps she's following me. >> yeah that's weird. >> the candidates are going to crisscross paths across the country all the time. she very likely had her trip to south carolina already planned. maybe they didn't realize. when the greenville paper said hillary clinton's going to be at this place, she clearly went in front of that hotel to do a press conference. and by the way, how smart. there she is taking questions that hillary clinton won't take. that is carly -- if that is carly fiorina's only contribution to this race that she's going to take questions and put a spotlight on the questions hillary clinton is not answering, why did you support the russian reset, why did you call assad a positive reformer why won't you talk about human rights when you're in china? you have a record as secretary of state to defend why aren't you talking about it? that is a contribution. >> so that is a contribution to take questions and those are all great points my bride just made. but here's the thing, what carly fiorina really is doing with her campaign as she e-mailed reporters is she is trying to criticize hillary clinton and in
sort of a agreed upon role with the rnc because the men in the race are reluctant to do so for fear of being called sexist. so what you have is somebody following hillary clinton around in this case and it is a trolling strategy. >> that's not true. >> let's be real. it is a trolling inging strategy. >> you're sexist for saying that. >> is this a real agreement that men are not going to go after hillary clinton? >> i think there's deep discomfort because it's very obvious to see how that could backfire. but carly fiorina's role as the only woman in the race so far has been the self-appointed hillary hitter. and following her around has a creepy quality. but strategy can't be to attack hillary, attack hillary. >> the other guys have attacked hillary. >> not with a single minded sense of person designed to get attention. >> she knows full well that's her contribution. >> yes, that's what i just said. >> she knows the guys in the race shouldn't be attacking her because they're going to be called sexist.
you're saying it's as those a pa jortive. that is a positive contribution to america. >> why only the white guys? ben carson allowed to attack hillary -- >> i'm sorry. [ overlapping speakers ] >> wow. okay. on fire. margaret john take care. >> i think it's interesting the one thing we didn't discuss which we'll wind up discussing more and more is money. at the end of the day this is going to be about money. >> i totally disagree. >> that's because you're working for a pac. >> no no what four states is jeb bush going to win in the first four? >> i don't know which? >> he's not even in the race yet. >> zero and he's going to have more money than everyone else. >> follow the money. cuomo's right. >> that will be our future. i smell a future segment. meanwhile, back to the story we are following and it's developing. there is epic flooding in the state of texas. homes and freeways are submerged and people are still missing. we'll tell you the latest.
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of reasons to snack on it. the rivers keep rising in texas and areas already damaged by raging flood waters face the threat of more rain. let's get right to meteorologist chad myers for what they're looking at. chad. >> couple things going on. the ground is saturated. there's no place for it to soak in. and there's not that much ground in the first place. talk to the people in austin texas about how their basement is. they don't have one. at least not very many because they're right on bedrock, right on limestone. when you get rain it just runs right off. oklahoma city same story. i lived in ed mond no basement
there. i'd love to have one, tornado alley, but you don't get it. there's showers in oklahoma city right now. more rain across dallas today. and i'm concerned that a small little frontal system right through, little outflow boundary as we call it could set up over dallas and make more rainfall and more flooding just like benbrook had last night. flooding about 10:00 last night rain showers just wouldn't stop raining. wouldn't move. the storm stayed in the same exact spot. and it could do the same thing today. wichita falls all the way down to i would say almost del rio texas you're going to see rain showers. back to the west you're going to see heavier rain and that's why we have the flash flood warnings and potential for severe weather. there may be a couple of tornadoes like there were yesterday. there's wichita falls, very heavy rainfall. everything's saturated. it's not going anywhere. it's just going to run off. it's going to be another couple of days before this stops. >> chad thanks so much for all of that. >> thank you for that key insight about how shallow the ground bed is there because of the lime rock. >> i never knew that. >> helpful to understand the
situation. so the defense department is in damage control this morning after a military lab in utah accidentally shipped live anthrax samples to nine states and a military base in south korea. reportedly via fed ex. 26 people are now getting treated for possible exposure. officials do not know if any other live samples are out there, but they say there's no risk to the public at this time. no word yet on how this happened. the fbi's struggling to keep track of all the isis sympathizers here in the united states. and they are asking for help from law enforcement agencies across the country. the request comes after agents lost track of a suspect who tried to attack a prophet muhammad cartoon contest in texas. meanwhile, an fbi bulletin warns the u.s. military, law enforcement and government offices are at increased risk of an attack by isis. nebraska overriding its governor's veto to become the first conservative state in more than 40 years to abolish the death penalty. the narrow win for death penalty opponents followed more than two
hours of emotional speeches at the state capitol. governor pete ricket immediately blasted the vote saying the state lost a critical tool to protect law enforcement and nebraska families. on the good news side it's been 40 years since the golden state warriors tasted the nba finals. but how sweet that taste was. the warriors closed out the houston rockets in five games winning 104-90 last night. up next though bum, bum, bum, the king. lebron and the cleveland cavaliers. game one one week tonight in oakland. he's big and strong and fast. but what do you think happens? so let's get into it. >> so interesting i was reflecting on the fact i spent all that time in california. and i don't ever remember a time when -- >> they were good. >> -- they were good. both the clippers and warriors. it was always about the lakers right? and to see this happening now is like really incredible. >> back in the day hay had hard aiway, richmond and mullen remember that? >> yeah. >> that means nothing.
who do you think wins based on the uniforms? does the burgundy and gold bother you? >> no, i like the burgundy and gold. my high school colors. i'm going with them. who is that? >> lebron james' team. >> i got to go with that. >> i got to go for the west. steph curry hard not to root for. dominant mvp. >> i don't know about the size thing. back to our top story rivers still rising to record levels in texas. cities and towns are submerged. a whole lot more rain is on the way. so is this global warming? we're going to put that to a scientist to talk about it. i want a great shape. who doesn't? so i work out. i'm good. i juice. and then there's that other thing. this... i can do easily. new benefiber healthy shape. just a couple of spoonfuls every day means fewer cravings. plus, it's all natural, clear, taste-free and dissolves completely. it's clinically proven to keep me fuller longer and helps keep me healthy inside and
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talk about other issues. i think the focus now is on caring for those who have lost their lives and lost their homes. >> senator ted cruz dodging questions about the possible connection between climate change and the deadly flooding in texas and oklahoma. this morning communities are trying to pick up the pieces. some now questioning what role climate change may have played in that disaster. joining us to weigh in is columbia university scientist radially horton. i'm curious your reaction to what senator cruz said there. is this politicizing what's happening in texas and oklahoma? >> clearly we need to start by focusing on the suffering of people. >> of course. nobody argues that. >> but it is an urgent issue climate change. as we look around the country, around the world, we are seeing an increase in heavy rain events associated with increasing greenhouse gases. we don't have much time. this is an urgent issue. we need to reduce our emissions of fossil fuels. and as we plan for where people are going to live along our
coast, energy and infrastructure decisions we make right now matter. they have implications on future decades as the sea levels are rising as we get more heavy rain events. >> so there's no direct evidence linking the climate is changing to what is happening there. but you say there is a big connection as you were just pointing out. >> absolutely. i like the way you started with that. any individual event you can't say climate change. but when we start to put the pieces together as more and more americans are doing, when we look at trends over the last 50 years for the entire u.s. and for the globe, we have seen more of these very heavy rain events. in the northeast for example we've seen about a 70% increase in the amount of rainfall in these heavy rain events. every part of the u.s. has seen an increase in these events. it also matches what we expect from theory. we know greenhouse gases are going to warm the atmosphere. we've understood that since the 19th century. that warmer atmosphere can hold more moisture it tends to fall out in these kinds of heavy rain events that we're observing. >> but we're also seeing extreme of everything.
we're seeing extreme drought. in fact this area that's flooding here in texas only a few years ago was declared a state of emergency, i think 2011 because there was a major drought there. we're seeing that in california. we're seeing these extreme events. we also know more and more meteorologists and respected ones including bill nye, in fact i think we have his tweet, are saying there is a link. why is there such debate still even though more in the science community are saying there is a link? >> well i think again a lot of us are inclined to focus on what we're observing in our local spot. and it's counterintuitive you can have drought risk increase and heavy rain risk increase as well. more americans i think are connecting these dots. as we're seeing changes, we're seeing the jet stream for example seemingly getting a little more wavier getting stuck into some of these patterns. we can't say for sure this is entirely due to climate change some of it could be variability, but it's looking more and more as we think about that
persistence. it's not that we get that very heavy rain event, it's seemingly locking into these weather patterns. we had so many consecutive cold days in the northeast. we've had such a long stretch of not just drought but extremely high temperatures in much of the west. intuitively it seems we're getting locked into some of these patterns. research is still emerging on whether these patterns are getting more persistent. seems like it when we've had a month long stretch of heavy rain. but we are for sure seeing heavier rain events getting stronger heat waves getting more intense when they happen. >> it houston particularly more vulnerable? we've seen highways turned into rivers. is it particularly because the way social securityit's situated or built? >> i think houston has more unique but if we talk specifically about houston there has been a lot of development. we've removed what used to be some catchment areas that could hold moisture now we have pavement where that water tends to run off. we have that risk of that heavy rain.
we're also seeing as we get more sea level rise we could see combined effect of surge of ocean water with heavy rain events. the water just has to sit there. >> super quick. we were just in albany talking about this. are leaders getting it? are they paying attention? >> we're absolutely seeing emerging leadership on climate change issues. we can see that in many places. there are till politicians who haven't taken it on the business community, the military more and more saying to protect public safety and the economy we need to think about climate change and make it more difficult for politicians to not put that in their long-term plan. >> radley always great to have you here on "new day." thanks for joining us. of course you can get in on the conversation you can get onto twitter, use the newday cnn hash tag or post comments on facebook. chris. so the etan patz jury deliberated for more than 100 hours. you remember this case it kind of set off the nation's fears about child abduction. 11 people wound up saying pedro
hernandez is guilty one did not. and he would not relent. why he has been the focus of much controversy. you will hear from him himself in an exclusive coming up. headache? motrin helps you be an unstoppable, let's-rock-this-concert- like-it's-1999 kind of mom. back pain? motrin helps you be the side-planking keeping-up-with- your-girlfriend- even-though-you'll-feel-it- later kind of woman you are. body pain? motrin helps you be an unstoppable, i-can-totally-do-this- all-in-one-trip kind of woman. when pain tries to stop you, there's motrin. motrin works fast to stop pain where it starts. make it happen with new motrin liquid gels. the question i get the most is probably do you feel fear? what's the closest you've ever come to death? they're boring. i have a website because i need a way to put myself forward in my own way. this is my story
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so as you probably know a jury deadlocked in the etan patz murder trial. the suspect, pedro hernandez, confessed to killing the 6-year-old some 36 years ago. and he did it many times. so the question is what happened. well in this trial there was a single hold out juror. he said he simply could not vote to convict. speaking out on television for the first time that juror, adam surwa joins us now. adam thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> so this has been unusual because usually when a jury deadlocks they say we couldn't decide we fought we tried. and it's left at that. not this time. this time it wound up being you against them. why do you think that was? >> i mean essentially it boils down to the evidence. the evidence was just not there in this case. and unfortunately my fellow
jurors felt the story presented by the prosecution was a story that made the most sense. and in my opinion you don't go with the story that makes the most sense, you go with the evidence. so it was very difficult, but it was the decision i felt very comfortable with. >> why were you in such a different place than the rest of them? i know it was 10-2 for a while you say. there was you and another man who was holding out. so it's not just you. but it wound up being just you. why wouldn't you go where they went? >> again, it's based on reasonable doubt. and my understanding of reasonable doubt, which is a very high threshold for voting guilty in our country, i just feel that the other jurors had a much lower threshold for getting to that point of being willing to vote guilty in this case. >> they say pedro hernandez admitted it he admitted it several times, he still admits it now. why isn't that good enough? >> we were told by the judge you cannot convict, you cannot vote
guilty on someone based only on their words they use against themselves. a confession is not evidence of guilt. you have to prove first that the crime was committed and second that the crime was committed by the person being charged with that crime. >> you need to corroborate the confession. >> yes. >> it hurts you when you say you did something else you can show it was a compelled confession a false confession or coerced confession but it certainly counts. but seems like you were very willing to discount it. why were you so willing to discount a man saying i did it i told my wife i told friends, i told people i told a church group. why wasn't it enough for you? >> there are lots of reasons why. i probably don't have time to tell all of them but essentially most of the testimony, most of the eyewitness testimony against mr. hernandez was based on things people said from 35 years ago. and people heard 35 years ago. in the courtroom -- in the jury room we couldn't remember what was said ten minutes ago in court sometimes which is why we asked for read back. so it made me nervous to judge a
man based on words from 35 years ago that someone might have heard at a church group meeting. that was one thing. the other thing was the fact that the police had him in custody for seven hours questioning with no video recording being done. which i felt was an issue, was something to think about. >> now, this is something that raised eyebrows about your disposition is you were reported to say that and you can verify it or shoot it downright now, that, hey, these are the police we're talking about. that made people think you were just anti-cop is that true? are you anti police? are you suspicious of police? >> not at all. i have huge respect for the nypd for the prosecutors office and in general i think they do a great job. i think it was unfortunate they didn't videotape the first seven hours of this interview, which would have really helped. everyone in that jury room wished it would have happened because it would have helped us to see how the interview was conducted. i'm not alleging anything was
wrong. i think the police used a lot of tactics that were very good to illicit this confession. but when someone has a mental health condition like mr. hernandez, low intelligence can a person like that succumb to a confession more easily? i think so. >> but he said the same thing before and to other people. >> allegedly. >> how did you square with that? >> allegedly. >> you think that each of these different groups were making it up? >> well one is his ex-wife who obviously had a very bad relationship with him. and the other were three older gentlemen from puerto rico who were in a church group who say they heard something 35 years ago but none of their stories were the same. and they changed over time. >> now, you grew up with this. etan patz is a name that you know i may not have pronounced correctly every time it was a tricky name but this was the story that changed everything. people were so hungry for satisfaction. and now you have this guy who says he did it and 11 of your
colleagues say, no this is it beyond a reasonable doubt has to be him. >> sure. >> what was it like for you to hold out? >> you know people have said you know that it was must have been hard or something like that. but to be honest i felt very confident in my position. and i was really hoping that i wouldn't be here alone today, that i would be here with at least nine or ten other people. there are a few people that were never going to vote not guilty. i could see that from the beginning. but there was a lot of wavering in that room for a while. it even got 6-6 at one point. but, yeah, i wish i wasn't alone right now but that's how the system works. >> any doubts who did it? somebody did this. somebody made this kid disappear. >> yeah. >> who did it if not pedro hernandez? >> i'm not going to pretend i know the answer but there were other suspects presented in the trial. jose ramos is a very good candidate for that -- >> and the prosecutor's saying in so many different ways we don't think it's ramos, we think it's this guy, we know it's this
guy. if you trust them what was it that if you had to point out just one thing where you couldn't get past it what was that thing? >> about? >> why you wouldn't believe what the prosecutors were saying? why you wouldn't believe after a hundred hours what your 11 colleagues were saying. what made you hold out? >> i mean honestly the weakness of the evidence. there was no corroboration of the confessions. the confessions are difficult. i grant that. i mean they're difficult for me. but there was no clear evidence that corroborated his confessions. >> the thumbnail means motive and opportunity. >> uh-huh. >> he worked right there. he had the ability to do this. he had access to that basement. he had the opportunity because the kid came by all the time right? >> uh-huh. >> and motive he's a disturbed guy who had a problem with kids by his own admission. >> problem with kids i don't agree with. and he was only 18 at the time. his mental health issues you know emerged after that. >> that's what they say. that's what they suggested on his side. >> right. >> but that wasn't enough for you. >> no. no. >> and you're good with it today?
>> i'm fine, yeah. >> what would you say to his parents? they've been big advocates for this. >> of course. my heart goes out to the patz family. it's a horrible thing and i'm so sorry for the loss of etan but that doesn't mean you convict the wrong person in the case. >> clear conscience you move on with your life. >> absolutely. >> you wrote on cnn.com a very thoughtful piece about why you feel the way you do. people can read that. adam thank you very much for explaining it to us. >> thank you. >> there have been a lot of questions. a lot of people will be watching. cnn.com, log on check out his whole version. this is one big story for you today. there's a lot of news. let's get right to it. stopped. >> a new warning about the growing threat posed by isis
sympathizers. >> nuclear talks with iran have resumed in vienna. >> this iran deal i believe is an historic mistake. >> still searching for those nine missing. this is "new day" with chris cuomo, alisyn camerota and michaela pereira. welcome back to your "new day." how did the u.s. military accidentally allow live anthrax to be shipped around the world by fed ex? the dangerous substance reportedly shipped to nine states and a military base in south korea. >> 26 people including four in the u.s. are now getting emergency treatment for possible exposure. and we still don't know why this happened and if it can be prevented from happening again. cnn's pentagon correspondent barbara starr is live for us this morning. i know we're trying to figure out on their end, at least the defense department how much exposure are there any samples, how far along are they barbara, in understanding why this
happened in the first place? >> i have to tell you, chris, right now there are still more questions than answers at osahn air base in south korea at nine states across the country. the pentagon trying to figure out what happened. it is a mistake, it is a crisis they've now only acknowledged after knowing about it for several days. this morning fear up to 22 air force personnel may have been exposed to anthrax at an air base in south korea. an investigation now under way as officials at osan air base say an army lab in utah inadvertently shipped live anthrax samples to them and facilities in nine states over the past few days. 22 people now being monoitored in south korea join four workers in the u.s. who have received preventive post exposure treatment. a lab in maryland was the first to report receiving the live
bacteria last friday after handling the samples. the question now, how could this have happened. >> it's a great question. that's exactly why we brought in the center for disease control. and their investigators. >> the centers for disease control now investigating as officials reveal the samples were shipped under less rigorous conditions since it was plooefed ed -- believed the bacteria was dead. nbc news reporting fed ex transported the samples. fed ex tells cnn they're working with officials to gather information. >> no known risk to the general public and no suspected or confirmed cases of anthrax in infection. >> the army thought when it shipped the samples they thought it was rendered dead. they treated them the way they always do thought they were dead they were not. something went wrong there. and all of this comes less than a year after the centers for disease control had a similar problem. it shipped anthrax under a
program to several locations. it thought it was dead anthrax, it was not. it was live. chris. >> thank you very much barbara. another story for you this morning, the fbi's having so much trouble keeping track of all the isis sympathizers in the u.s. that they're now asking other law enforcement agencies for help. this comes after the feds lost track of a suspect who went onto attack a prophet muhammad cartoon contest in texas. we have cnn's justice reporter evan perez ferreting out the details. >> the fbi says there are hundreds of suspects isis supporters in america. and it says it can't keep an eye on all of them. now police departments including here in new york are stepping in to increase their surveillance of people who are potential isis terrorists. law enforcement officials tell me the fbi surveillance squads are tapped out. not enough of them to track people who are using social media and talking to isis members overseas. the fear is those people could plot an attack here.
now, we asked fbi director jim comey about this yesterday. >> it is an incredibly difficult task that we are enlisting all of our state and local and federal partners in. and we're working around it every single day. but i can't stand here with any high confidence when i confront a world that's increasingly dark to me and tell you i've got it all covered. >> now, this change in strategy is part of the fallout from the foiled terrorist attack a few weeks ago in garland, texas. two gunmen inspired by isis tried to attack a prophet muhammad cartoon contest. now, they were killed by police but law enforcement officials say one of the gunmen elton simpson, was under fbi surveillance. but it wasn't 24/7. fbi agents lost track of him for a few days. the fbi had no idea that he was on his way to texas to carry out his attack. now, i just heard from the lapd. and they're also doing the same increase in surveillance. alisyn. >> okay evan thanks so much for that breaking news and developing story. we want to bring in now our cnn counterterrorism analyst and
former cia counterterrorism official philip mudd to talk more about this. hi phil. >> good morning. >> this is a troubling story. in the general public we tend to think of the fbi as this sort of big omnipresent operation that has eyeballs on everything at all times. so to hear them say, you know we actually can't get the job done. it's unsettling. what's the problem? >> look let's do two points in time. let's do 2005 and 2015. if you're sitting at the fbi in 2005 as i was, think of the al qaeda threat at that point, not isis but al qaeda. as a few sort of dots of ink on the map. we're watching al qaeda central in places like pakistan a small secret organization that might be trying to insert people from overseas into a few american cities. you can cover that. the word we use in the bureau is coverage. you can cover that if you're a federal security service like the fbi. and then you're going to walk into the local police department in a place like los angeles or new york and say we've got a threat here we might need a
little help but we think we can handle it. isolated directed from overseas. fast forward to 2015 and think of those spots of ink now as a spread of ink across the united states with different characteristics. the threat isn't coming from overseas. you can't collect on an organization overseas and determine who they're sending in to america. the threat is coming from kids hundreds maybe thousands in american cities who are self-recruiting. so you have two problems. how do you collect against that number of kids? and how do you collect when the threat isn't a point target for collection overseas it's a bunch of kids just self-recruiting in american cities? it's the spread of a stain across the carpet. so you've got to go into police departments and say we need your help not only to identify where these kids are recruiting but to cover the target because we can't surveil all these people as evan perez said. >> so phil is all this a result of what happened in garland, texas where basically the fbi, this guy, one of the suspects was on their radar. they knew that he had this
potential. but they lost track of him. and then we saw him attempt to open fire at the garland, texas contest. so is that why they're sending up this flag now to local p.d.? >> that's the trigger i think that led people to say how do we look at this problem more broadly and bring in police departments. but the broader issue, alisyn is the revolution in the way terrorists think. back when we were following al qaeda after 9/11 al qaeda would never have considered sort of crowd sourcing which is what isis does. al qaeda would have said we got to keep every recruitment secret. we can't afford to lose a recruit going into the united states because there are so few of them. isis flipped this entirely on its head. they said we're going to be out entirely in the open. we're going to be out on twitter. we're going to be out on facebook. if we have 2,000 people who self-recruit and 98% of them either get disinterested or picked up by the feds that means 2% are successful. that's a huge success rate for isis. so this is more a fundamental change in the way terrorist groups think about presenting
their image to potential recruits in the united states. >> so interesting timing today, right? because just as the fbi makes this announcement these key provisions of the patriot act are set to expire on monday including the bulk phone data collection. are you one of these people who believes that that bulk collection of phone records really did stop terror attacks? >> sure. this is misunderstood. people look at that bulk collection of data and do studies that say it did not identify terrorists in a lot of cases. i would completely agree with that. but let me give you this scenario somebody walks in the room the fbi morning briefings are typically 7:00 7:15 7:30. somebody walks in the room and says we just identified a new subject in new york city. that subject is talking to an isis recruiter in syria. the first question you're going to have is who is this person who does he talk to what has he bought off the internet for example beauty supplies he might use to build a bomb. the way you identify those kind
of connections immediately going back to what that person was doing last month six months ago. in 2015 you don't put people on the street. you get all that data from phone companies, e-mail providers and say, hey, within 24 hours i have a pretty good understanding of what the spider web is around that spider. if you tell me tomorrow that we don't have that data going back a year going back six months going back a month, you tell me how when somebody walks in the room and says we have a new subject in new york city how are you going to build a spider web of understanding around that person in 24 hours? it's not going to happen. >> so phil now that the fbi has admitted that they actually don't have the manpower to surveil everybody, how many people do you think we're talking about that requires surveillance here in the u.s. and our local pds up to it? >> there are very few police departments that can hands l this threat. not because they don't have tremendous capability but i think people misunderstand the resources you need to follow somebody around.
remember when you talk about surveillance there are layers of surveillance. for example, i can check up periodically to see what you're doing on the internet. that's a lot different than saying i want to be outside your house. that's three rolling teams, you want to rotate them every let's say eight hours, move off after a couple days because you're going to say why do i keep seeing that guy on the corner so you have to move different cities to rotate your teams in. that's a heck of a lot of people. you'd be surprised how true surveillance targets you can have at any one time. the police department needs to help with that. the police departments when you're talking about hundreds of targets across america. but even with the police department help you cannot surveil in classic sense that is people on the street watching somebody hundreds of people at a time i don't care how many people you have. you can't do it. >> phillip mudd thanks so much. great to talk to you. over to michaela. now to the high stakes battle against isis in iraq. iraqi forces are locked in a furious battle to retake ramadi. but they're also squaring off
over a key oil refinery. cnn's senior international correspondent nick paton walsh was granted rare access to the front lines in baiji and joins us live from baghdad. nick. >> reporter: michaela a troubling and very complex fight certainly in baiji, the oil refinery the up point is they need that area cleared if they're going to move towards mosul. and it's part of the strategy to attack anbar and get isis out of that where ramadi is located. they need to secure the route that runs from that oil refinery down to anbar. but the downside is they can't use heavy weapons or just take the fight to isis in there because that neolistic group could well just torch the place and leave an ecological disaster behind. we saw some degree the black smoke on the horizon just a little bit of that place being on fire at the moment. and there are now iraqi special forces there. they say they have the numbers. they say they have the ammunition. they wanted to show us their will to fight to take the fight
to isis. a lot of rounds during the period of time we were there, but we also saw this is still an active area. we had reports of iraqi police being killed simply taking the wrong road. i saw myself a body pulled out of the back of an ambulance. it's deeply complicated and vital and reflects the issues faced around ramadi too. complex territory to retake and also many different sides on the government of iraq trying to take that fight. up by baiji there were shia fighters alongside iraqi forces. it's going to take time. >> you've been making that clear for a while, nick. you're seeing it now firsthand. this will not be easy. stay safe. back here at home dozens have lost their lives and more are in jeopardy because more rain is in the forecast for parts of texas. nine people are still missing in areas that are just under water and almost impossible to access. with the rivers still rising officials are urging everyone who lives anywhere near those areas to evacuate. we have cnn meteorologist
jennifer gray in wimberley, texas. there's just been no relief for the people there. it's not coming any time soon. so what is it like on the ground? >> reporter: well you know folks are really taking it seriously. when you have those flood warnings you've got to seek higher ground. we talked to people yesterday who, you know during the flood they evacuated. and so everyone was okay. but unfortunately nine people still missing in this area. there's the blanco river. just a couple of days ago it was completely over these trees. it's hard to believe now that they were completely under water. now the water has gone down considerably but still very fast moving. and it's going to be hard for those searchers to get out with the current still very very strong. but stories are still coming out of what happened over the weekend. and it was very scary. >> oh no! >> reporter: new dramatic video revealing the power of the deadly flash floods in texas. the water from the blanco river
swelled by the storms on saturday fills the entire ground floor of this vacation home in seconds. authorities recovering the body of a child near its banks wednesday as the death toll rises across texas and oklahoma. >> it's very thick and wooded in some parts making the search much more difficult. >> reporter: just south of houston the body of 73-year-old alice tovar found by her brother-in-law after she was separated from her car swept away by the ravaging flood waters. >> i'm glad we found her. have to leave her out there it's a relief. >> reporter: this as the frantic search for the missing continues. but the severe weather danger isn't over. a tornado hit an oil rig in northwestern texas wednesday resulting in several serious injuries. >> take the heed and the warning. get out now. >> reporter: residents just south of houston now leaving on a voluntary evacuation as flash flood watches continue to span
central and northern texas, up through kansas until sunday. the rivers are filled to capacity. the soil is already saturated. rain is not what residents want to hear unfsht fortunately, chris, we are expecting more rain throughout the rest of the week and weekend. this area about an inch or less but areas to the north could see amounts even higher michaela. >> all right. i will take it here. thanks so much jennifer. stay here with cnn. we'll get you through all of that you need to know for texas and oklahoma and beyond. the irs believes a cyber data breach that exposed the records of more than 100,000 taxpayers originated in russia. officials say organized crime syndicates were able to access personal data and claim $50 million in fraudulent refunds. in a 2014 report an independent watchdog called cyber security the agency's number one problem. the irs commissioner will testify at a senate hearing next week. well hillary clinton looking to pick up momentum in an early primary state with a
visit to south carolina. there was a gop candidate, carly fiorina, she was there also trying to steal some of the spotlight. how'd that go? cnn senior washington correspondent jeff zellny here with more. >> the republican field is so crowded. the best way to break out of the pack is to try and distinguish yourself from hillary clinton. so that's exactly what carly fiorina was trying to do. i'm not sure she stole the show but she perhaps borrowed a bit of the spotlight. but hillary clinton did not pay much attention to carly fiorina. she was there for the first time since 2008 after that punishing defeat against barack obama. she wanted to reintroduce herself to south carolina voters. and we heard a line we haven't heard from her before. let's take a listen. >> all our presidents come into office looking so vigorous. by the time they leave they're as white as the building they live in. now, let me tell you, i'm aware i may not be the youngest candidate in this race.
but i have one big advantage, i've been coloring my hair for years. [ applause ] so you're not going to see me turn white in the white house. >> if you think you heard a bit of a southern accent you're right. sometimes secretary clinton as other politicians in the south sometimes lapse into that but she was making a point that she is going to bring up her age and her gender and her experience. she'll be 69 if she wins the white house. and she says that is an asset, guys. >> interesting. >> and true. the true about the white hair. she will not have that in all likelihood. >> right. but the southern accent is also an interesting twist to this. thanks jeff. well nuclear negotiators from iran and six world powers are back at the table in vienna. the deadline for a deal is just
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joining us aaron david miller a former middle east negotiator and vice president of the woodrow wilson international center. always a pleasure. so we just heard in the latest an iranian official says i caution my friends at the table against making excess demands. i caution them not to ask for renegotiation. and you have the ayatollah saying i will not allow any outsiders to look in our military installations. these are all bad signs, are they not? >> yeah they are. but standard operating procedure in a negotiation i suspect. i mean i've been around arab-israeli negotiations for a long time. and there's an ebb and flow here. and a rhythm. my own assessment is this thing's coming good bad, somewhere in between there's going to be a deal. whether by june 30 or several weeks after. >> why? why does there have to be a deal? i don't like what you're doing with the houthis in yemen, i don't like what you're doing with the journalist i don't like what you're doing in iraq i don't like you have your military guys making fun of my president, why would i give you
a deal? >> there doesn't have to be a deal. i'm only arguing there will be. because you have a willful determined american president who's persuaded himself that the alternatives to no deal either is the end of the sanctions regime if we're blamed for sabotaging it or war. now, whether that's an accurate assessment or not, that is the administration's assessment. >> but what do you think? is that really the way it shapes up? if you don't do a deal with iran what do you think happens? >> i think there are bound to be more confrontation, i think iranians will try to accelerate their program. whether they'll try to break out and weaponize probably not. but it's more than that chris. we're into legacy time. administration has 20 months left. this president confronts a disorderly to say the least middle east. and i think he argues although i don't think he's naive entirely. i think he argues that iran offers a measure of order. look, you sign a deal, the prospects of war with the israelis gone we don't have to use our military option to
strike. the iranians will probably be quiet for a while. >> israel says don't do the deal. >> and the israelis have a compelling case to make. in the end -- let's assume there is a deal. the reality is a decade from now, that's a long time and there are no guarantees what's going to happen but a decade from now i suspect you're going to be left with an iran whose power in the region has increased, an iran that's richer because of sanctions relief and iran that's now open for business. iran that's left with a residual nuclear infrastructure. and an iran that still will maintain a discretion to weaponize should they choose to do so. >> that's all with a deal. >> that's all with a deal. so there are no good deals here. there are no good deals to eliminate risks. there are no deals to eliminate iran as some point could choose to weaponize. and that's the concern among those who are not wild-eyed critics but those who argue that iran is a rising power in a middle east that is melting down
and that ultimately down the road what we're doing is kicking the can down the road. ultimately we're going to confront an iran that's more dangerous, bigger stronger with more influence in iraq presumably in syria, maybe in yemen. that's the argument against. and to that the administration says well fine. that's one outcome. but consider the alternative. maybe -- and that's the problem here chris. a lot of maybes. maybe the iranians now with an incentive to become part of the international community, maybe the iranian public will grow used to sanctions relief, they'll put more pressure but i don't buy that because authoritarian powers former soviet union, china, they don't give up their authoritarian control even though they may open up economically. iran is less a country and more a cause. and it is still an ideological, repressive state. look at jason rezian the three other americans who are there. the iranians may execute more
people every year than the chinese. all of these things are true. and it makes this deal one that's highly fraught. >> it does seem to the outside viewer that the only thing you have on them is the sanctions. that squeezing them -- i know the other side will say they've done all this with the sanctions. say that's even more reason, john mccain and others will say that's even more reason to turn the screws tighter on sanctions. and that absent that they do whatever they want and it's almost always against u.s. interests. if you abandon those sanctions are you worried about what happens? >> yeah. because i think you are going to find an iran that has more money, even if it puts a fair percentage of that into economic reconstruction and doing things that actually benefit the quality of life for the iranian public. they're still going to finance their adventures abroad in yemen, iraq and syria. there's a reality, again, we have a rising iran an iran that fashions itself a great power,
it is relatively speaking along with turkey and israel the three most important powers in this region today are the three nonarabs. israel turkey and iran. >> it is all too common that the problems are obvious, the solutions are very mysterious. and we don't seem to have the best one here yet. but we do have you, aaron david miller and i wouldn't trade you for anyone. >> too kind. appreciate it. >> love our conversations with him. george pataki is the next presidential candidate to declare in a crowded field of republicans. we're going to take a look at a surprising new quinnipiac poll handicapping the gop race inside politics. listen up... i'm reworking the menu. veggies you're cool... mayo, corn dogs... you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein... and
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all right. time for inside politics with john king. boy, that gop field is getting awfully crowded, my friend. >> it's getting crowded, michaela. you can say there are five leaders or you can say there are no leaders. take a closer look. back to you in a few minutes. inside politics this morning share reporting associated press, ron fornier of national journal. top ten in the poll. brand new quinnipiac poll this morning. bush carson huckabee walker
at 10% each across the board. then you've got senator paul senator cruz, donald trump, chris christie carly fiorina. drop to the bottom six, governor kasich governor jindal governor perry and governor pataki and senator santorum at the moment getting blips there up. when they make debate decisions it will maybe be the top ten. but forget about that for a minute. just look at this race. you could say there are five leaders, but i think the point is there are no leaders. >> i think it's going to stay this way for a while too. when you talk to voters in new hampshire, in iowa you don't get the sense people are actually ready to make a decision right now. they like this field. they think there are more qualified candidates in this field than perhaps in previous years. and they want to take time and hear these candidates out. the problem for someone like a jeb bush is that he is seen as a front runner regardless of what the polls say. so at a certain point he's going to need to back that up with a bump in the polls before donors and some supporters that might be on the edge start getting
really nervous. >> are they happy with the field -- let alone who you want you have to decide who you are as a parody before you decide who's going to lead you. if you're jeb bush going into a meeting you're raising more money than anybody else. but going into where they could raise maybe millions of dollars and you're at 10 and donald trump's at 5? >> can you imagine donald trump on the debate stage? i know you don't wapt to g there but that's a scary thing for republicans. the party is kind of in a search for what its soul is. there are a lot of republicans who hate the establishment. tired of washington. there are a lot of folks in that field, mainly jeb bush who represents that. you have rand paul doing his thing, the governors doing their thing. it's going to take a long time for this to sort out. you and i are old enough to remember when this was reversed when democrats had this kind of field and republicans had somebody they're about to anoint. >> used to be your turn. your bob dole ronald reagan
mitt romney, john mccain, you've run before. it's your turn. let's look at that point. let's switch to the democrats in this place. if you're hillary clinton you're not nervous, gone from 60 to 57. i think it's interesting bernie sanders has nearly doubled his numbers. he just officially got in the race next month, had his big rally this past week. i'm not worried if i'm hillary clinton, but i'm going to watch that a little bit. he is moving. >> the thing about bernie sanders is he has a very loyal following and he does fill a space in the democratic party that has been looking for a candidate. they have been pushing for warren. he's not exactly a warren but he can appeal to that group. the challenge for hillary clinton will be how does she fight against it. does she just ignore it if his numbers continue to go up? does she push hard against it? i think that's risky for her as well. and if you're a martin o'malley where is your space? will he pull from hillary's numbers or stay in the bottom and pull from bernie? i think clinton is safe. but you have to watch the people below her. >> when he gets in on saturday
former governor of maryland, former mayor of baltimore, does he have to be more aggressive that bernie sanders has emerged again 57 to 15 there's no sweat in camp clinton. but at the moment he's the quote/unquote alternative, bernie sanders is. >> yeah. martin o'malley has to decide whether he wants to be in the cabinet or possibly be president. if he wants to have a shot of taking on hillary clinton, he's got to take her on. he can't play this game he's playing now. she is sweating or at least she should be sweating. you look inside that poll 53% of americans don't trust her. now, with that kind of number either you're not going to get elected, or even if you do get elected you're not going to be able to lead and then of course all these scandals. >> that's a compilation of bill clinton legacy private e-mail server other issues. >> she hasn't been answering the american public. >> right. we'll come back to the republican race because there are one of the reasons they don't have a leader a number of issues on which the party isn't quite sure where it is. used to be the republicans were the hawkish party. muscular on defense, john mccain, george w. bush dick
cheney. but rand paul was talking yesterday on msnbc and he said the reason isis is so strong is because the hawks in the republican party sent so many weapons haphazardly into iraq and then isis snatched them up. that provoked a pretty strong reaction. bobby jindal governor of louisiana, said this is a perfect example of why senator paul is unsuited to be commander in chief. we have men and women in the military in the field trying to fight isis right now and senator- paul is taking the weakest most liberal democrat position. rick santorum he ran in 2012, he officially announced yesterday, echoed the same theme. >> well i would expect to hear that from maybe bernie sanders. i don't expect to hear that from someone running for the republican nomination. >> if you're rand paul does this mean you're losing steam? or does this mean in a crowded field you want to be the guy who's different? everyone else says you're weak but in an odd way does it help him? >> i think there's a big question about rand paul right now. if you look at this comment in isolation it does look like a
very rand paul comment. this is where he's been on foreign policy. he tends to be more of an isolationist. he tends to be just separate from the rest of the pack. but if you look at other things he's said about foreign policy other things he's said looks like he's joining more the rest of the crowd. i think he is still wrestling with this question. duh he need to separate himself from the field or appeal to the republican base? >> as you come into the conversation let's bring in chris christie who didn't make the specific point about didn't same liberal, he said i'm a former prosecutor rand paul leading a fight against the nsa surveillance program saying the government has too much power. christie says again, senator, you're wrong. >> misguided means they're wrong. and there's nobody engaging in this national conversation other than me who's used these tools. i've used them for seven years as a prosecutor. and what they talk about is theoretical. what i talk about is actual. >> so again, you know there are some others who aren't
necessarily completely with rand paul on this subject who have sympathetic to him including ted cruz. >> first of all on the policy rand paul is right. the hawks do own this. he's wrong in the sense that hawks aren't the only ones who own this. a lot of people bear responsibility for what's happened in isis on the left and the right. politically i think it's interesting what he's doing. this is part of a bigger play rand paul is trying to make to first of all take on the establishment wing of the republican party. there's a lot of need for that. there's a lot of hunger for that on all these issues. and to show some distinction as you said from the rest of the field. and in particular this really appeals to younger voters and younger republicans these kind of issues. and i give them credit for nothing else at least he's having a conversation about something as important as foreign policy and not just talking points out of hillary clinton and the rest of the republican field. he's trying to shake things up. i give him credit for that. >> if he wants to expand his base he's going to a lot of meetings with donors. you're right about young people and changing the conversation. he's going to meetings with
donor who is have supported in the past people like mitt romney and saying i'm not sure about this. >> yeah. and he's going to face the same question that people who are on the other side of this issue is which is what is your specific plan then. and donors want to hear that. eventually voters will want to hear that. and he may say that the hawks in the republican party own isis but the next president is probably going to own isis. and it's going to have to figure out what their strategy is. >> we'll continue. alisyn as we get back to new york governor pataki getting into the race today. when the top guns are at 10%, why would that discourage anybody from getting in? it's wide open. have some fun. >> absolutely. we'll see what the polls say tomorrow. could be completely different. thanks john. well remember those three british teenagers who were caught on camera back in february believed to have been heading to syria via turkey to join isis? we have an update on what's happened to them. that's next. oh, i love game night. ooh, it's a house and a car! so far, you're horrible at this, flo. yeah, no talent for drawing, flo. house! car! oh, raise the roof! no one? remember when we used to raise the roof, diane?
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tracked footprint to see what was so appealing about the terror group. new research suggests women are not looking for marriage or glory, they're looking for sisterhood. >> reporter: the tweets of 15-year-old amira abassi read like any typical london teenager shoes to buy, tweets on her favorite football club. but by january a steady trickle of posts on syria. >> a very rapid radicalization process. >> reporter: melonie smith of the institute of strategic dialogue mapped how she turned to isis. >> we can actually see the process of her becoming more politically engaged, becoming more concerned with syria and finally making that decision to leave. >> reporter: smith says the trigger may have come in december last year when a classmate left for syria. >> so this is when we see her become more engaged with syria. >> reporter: shortly after the concern for syrian refugees increased with frequent mentions
of her close friends. then in february she posted this picture with them sisters. four days after posting her sisters picture the girls were caught on camera at airport security leaving for istanbul according to authorities. and then video of them meeting what police describe as a people smuggler to take them into syria. >> baby please come home. >> reporter: the families made tearful appeals for their return no response. >> you're a baby. >> reporter: then in april one photo appeared on twitter with the caption, take away in the state of isis. the families say they're too distraught to comment but authorized their lawyer to speak on their behalf. >> they were obviously rather upset because it appeared that amira's phone and account had been used to tweet something of a normalized picture where she hadn't been in contact with the family. so she seemed to be happy to
tweet meals to the world but no phone call home really. >> reporter: all three are believed to be in the isis stronghold of raqqa though none have been in direct contact with their families. but could the girls have been stopped? and what is the responsibility of the parents? her father came under scrutiny for attending a 2012 protest with islamist preacher an jam chaudhry. he acknowledges the need for more scrutiny by parents and cooperation with the police and muslim community. >> i think the lesson to be learned there really is that we need to be able to as parents monitor what our influences effect our children on a much more urgent base than maybe in the past. and the problem we have is that if government looks at an entire community and says this is a community that we are going to investigate, they're an enemy community, well it's going to be very difficult, very impossible to get that
community's help in terms of solving the problem. >> reporter: the girls are all minors just 15 and 16. and that may be the critical factor. at the time they left the uk british police had indicated the girls may not be prosecuted if they choose to and are able to return home. atika shubert, cnn, london. >> fascinating. thanks atika. check out this video. this was supposed to be a safety demonstration. oh geez. so what went wrong? and why didn't these guys get out of the way? i'm caridee. i've had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life. but that hasn't stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer.
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(vo) change your sleep. change your life. change to tempur-pedic. a new study out and a surprising finding for keeping a healthy weight. we turn to christine romans. >> a new study says the order of major life events is important, and if you get your college degree before getting married, you have a significantly lower chance of becoming obese, and the same is true for becoming a parent if you wait to have kids until you already have your college diploma, your weight is likely to remain at a healthy
level, and maybe they have more resources to pursue a healthy lifestyle, and you have to use the degree before taking on major responsibilities to reap the benefits of this. that's what happens if you listen to this and listen to the incredible study this morning, guys. >> thanks christine. here is the video we have been talking about. it's terrible to look at. we have to understand it. it's a volvo hitting onlookers, and the question is when the features installed in the first place? >> this is now not to train your car dealership staff about a safety system meant to protect pedestrians. it's okay nobody was badly hurt, and nobody even went to the hospital. staff at this volvo dealership
in the dominican republicic. mowing down people on purpose. volvo is still look into it and the dealership thought the car was equipped with a radar that scans for pedestrians. >> if the driver fails to respond in time. >> so what happened with the driver behind the wheel at the dealership? the good news is according to volvo the system did not malfunction, and the bad news is the car was not equipped with a pedestrian protection system and for thinking it was when it wasn't and letting staff stand there, volvo blames the mishap
on human error, and once during a demonstration a brake system failed. many have tested the system for laughs and even using humans dressed as dummies, but that was nothing compared to the crash course these guys got. jeanne moos cnn. >> i can't barely watch that. >> you hearing is crunching like bone. >> you don't want to be this guy. >> the guy in the pink. >> the guy standing behind him, he was waiting something, and he
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u.s. military mistakenly shipped live an-- >> the growing threat by isis sympathizers right here inside the united states. >> calling for attacks in the west. >> pamela geller announcing she has submitted the winning cartoon in the contest. >> we need to wake up and take a firm stand for freedom of speech. more troubles for the dugger family. >> in the end, they are responsible for the death of
their own brand. live anthrax shipped to nine states all handled by commercial carrier, and now the questions swirling about how the defense department allowed it to happen. >> now than two dozen people getting emergency medical treatment as officials scramble to see if any other live samples were shipped elsewhere. barbara, what do we know? >> good morning, alisyn. from the air base in south korea where it's nighttime to nine states across the country, a lot of questions about how they got potentially live anthrax agent and why it took the pentagon days to reveal the problem.
this morning fear that up to 22 air force personnel may have been exposed to anthrax at an air base in south korea, and an investigation now underway as officials at owe shawn air basin advertently shipped live samples to them. 22 people now being monitored in south korea join four workers in the u.s. who received post pre pretreatment. the question is how could this have happened? >> that's exactly why we brought in the center for disease control and their investigators. >> the centers for disease control now investigating as officials reveal the samples were revealed under less
rigorous conditions since it was believed the bacteria was dead and fedex tells cnn they are working with officials to gather information. >> no known risk to the general problem and there is no suspected or confirmed cases of anthrax infection. >> and a lot of questions of how this could ever have been repeated. >> thank you for the update. apparently there are so many isis sympathizers in the united states the fbi is having trouble keeping track of all of them. so the agent is now asking for help. cnn's justice reporter is here. >> here is the problem. fbi says there are hundreds of suspected isis supporters in
america and they can't keep an eye on all of them and police departments including here in new york are stepping in to increase their surveillance of people who are potential isis followers. the fear is that these people could plot an attack here. we asked the fbi director jim comey comey, about this yesterday. >> we are enlisting all of the state and federal partners in, and i can't stand here with any high confidence when we confront this problem and tell you we have it all covered. >> two gunmen inspired by isis tried to attack a prophet mohammed cartoon contest, and one of the gunmen was under fbi
surveillance. fbi agents lost track of him for a few days and the fbi had no idea he was on his way to carry out his attack in texas. chris? >> thank you for tracking that down. appreciate it. right now the clock is ticking on the patriot act with key provisions set to expire and the obama administration is urging the senate to renew big portions of the bill, and if lawmakers fail to do so they are playing russian roulette with national security. jim acosta following developments live at the white house. and section 215 and met adata collection overshadowed things. >> this is a surveillance cliff the country is approaching. coming up this weekend the obama administration is accusing congress of playing national security russian roulette of
looking at a shutdown of the bulk collection of data from every phone call in the u.s. is scheduled to expire on sunday unless lawmakers come up with a solution and that data is used encounter terrorism investigation and the program outraged privacy advocates. here is how something goes down on sunday. on sunday at 4:00 p.m. the federal government will instruct phone companies to stop collecting the data, and then the collection can resume 24 hours after congress renews the program, so that is still a potential -- a possibility in all of this and the attorney general, loretta lynch, she is urging lawmakers they better hurry up. >> some of the tools we use to combat terrorism and crime are scheduled to shut down on sunday. without action from the senate we will experience a serious lapse in our ability to protect the american people.
>> the big old up is in the senate right now where the majority leader wants to keep the patriot act in place, and the senate better get moving before the programs quote, go dark. alisyn it doesn't happen very often where you hear about the house republicans prouding the senate republicans. >> the one that allows the bulk data collection and wiretaps and even if suspects change their phone numbers and the laws at curbing lone wolf terrorists. what happens if these go away? >> what they have told us is these are programs that provided
valuable information in the past and these are critical tools used to keep the american people safe, and there are concerns the president himself raised about the bulk collection program and that's why the president directed his national security team to work with members of congress to reform the programs and put in place greater protections to our privacy, and that means the government is no longer in the business of holding the bulk data and that should give confidence to libertarians and those concerned with civil liberties, and this includes important reforms for privacy and at the same time giving our law enforcement and national security professionals the tools they need the noncontroversial tools they need to keep the country safe. >> and these provisions in the patriot act say not only are they constitutional and they do affect america's privacy, but
they are not effective, and what terror plot can you cite that was thwarted by this collection? >> what the security professionals would tell you they have gathered information because of these tools they had not otherwise been able to find and that information was used to put together investigations that have brought to justice individuals who are considering out acts of terror. >> can you name one? such as? which one? >> i encourage you to talk to our national security professionals about this and that's classified information, and what they can say publicly is they use these tools to collect information that has not been otherwise available to them and was used to prevent individuals from carrying out acts of violence and round up people that wish harm on the united states and this is an important part of the investigation, and it was used to identify other subjects.
what our law enforcement and national security professionals are doing are trying to point a picture of those acting in secret, and under the supervision of a national security judge, they are using the abilities here to keep us safe. >> josh when pressed it's very hard for people at the nsa to cite exactly how the metadata collection has broken up anything and the subway terror plot it was an e-mail that was intercepted, and when the nsa director then had to admit it was not the metadata collection and when people like rand paul say it has done more harm than good in the country, how can you counter that? >> what they have said including senator paul they believe the government should no longer be in the business of holding the bulk data, and the
president agrees, and he worked with democrats and republicans in the congress and we have legislation that passed the house of representatives with the support of 338 democrats and republicans, and this is legislation that would put the government out of the business of collecting that bulk data so if that's their legitimate concern they should be supportive of the usa freedom act and it would put the government out of that business and it would make sure the government has the ability to use the lone wolf provision, and it also would give national security professionals access to data that our law enforcement professionals already use to track down criminals, and this is access to hotel records and other business records upon -- with a judge's approval. that's all our national security professionals are asking for. it has been reauthorized by congress on many occasions, and they say it's important to our
national security so the fact is we see a lot of people playing politics but when you look at the facts at the legislation of the usa freedom act, it gives the professionals the tools they need to keep the country safe and this is getting held up by the senate it does a great disservice to the american people. >> thank you so much for explaining your perspective on this and we shall see what happens sunday at midnight. >> thank you, alisyn. and to the battle to retake parts of iraq. iraqi forces fighting to overtake ramadi they are locked in a fight to protect a key oil field. we are joined from baghdad now. nick? >> reporter: that fight is so
complex and the footage you are about to see you have an idea just how awful it could be for the environment in iraq and, of course we drove up a road that was littered with the remains ft fight against isis and that town of tikrit so heavily destroyed, and we are facing a very complex challenge ahead. >> this is just a taste of how apocalyptic it could get, the oil refinery already choking on smoke. part of the complex held by isis fighters and the month's long fight here slowed by fears of the chaos isis could wreak if they scorch and burn here as they retreat. iraqi special forces took us to their front line defending the ruins of a house of a coalition air strike.
from the elite golden division the ramadi colleagues that the u.s. said lacked the will to fight. it's the closest possession there, and during a thick sand storm here they used the cover of it to advance within 20 meters of here, and when the sand storm subsided suddenly a firefight began. we don't know why they start shooting this day, what they may have seen. isis a few in number here they say, but willing to die and have a sniper nearby. or maybe they more want to show us and even washington they very much do want to fight. it's not logical and wrong, he says, of the american criticism, because anywhere in ramadi,
phoesil, anywhere we fight. it's usually morters that isis fires back. the reason we want to surround them he says is because we must clean up the area properly with specialists engineers because it has fuel but also pwaouby traps. they are mindful iraq needs something to live off of if isis ever leaves. you know chris, even where there are forces that want to fight you have the ammunition and people and it's complex and you have the rest of the anbar province where they need to have different groups fighting and the sunnis maybe even to be on the same place to have a chance
of success, and south of where that happened there was a massacre months ago of a number of shia recruits and 499 bodies have been taken out of mass graves nearby there, horrifying and shows you how brutal the war could be. >> thank you for giving us perspective of why we have to manage how long it's taking. back here with the rivers still on the rise officials are urging anybody that lives near them to evacuate if you can. our coverage begins in wimberley, texas. we have cnn meteorologist, jennifer gray there. what is the latest? >> reporter: they are searching for the nine people missing, and the crews will be out again in the blanco river just behind me and just looking at it is haunting because thinking about how high the water rose these huge trees behind me and in
fact they were completely submerged over the weekend and we are still getting new stories from the weekend that are just terrifying. new dramatic video revealing the power of the deadly flash floods in texas. the water from the blanco river swelled by the storms on saturday fills the entire ground floor of the vacation home in seconds. authorities recovering the body of a child near its banks on wednesday as the death toll rises against texas and oklahoma. >> it's very thick and wooded in some parts making the search more difficult. >> south of houston the body of 73-year-old alice tovar was found after her car was swept away by the floodwaters. >> glad we found her. tonight have to leave her out there. it's a relief. >> this, as a frantic search for the missing continues, but the
severe weather danger is not over a tornado hit a oil rig in northwestern texas. residents south of houston leaving on a voluntary evacuation as flood watches span texas through kansas until sunday. most of the rivers and creeks all across the region are filled to capacity. the ground is so saturated. rain is the last word that people want to hear but it looks like we are going to see more rain across texas, oklahoma arkansas through the weekend. >> that's terrible. we hope people heed those evacuation warnings. more than a year after the flight vanished the search is
said to be using the wrong technology, and the search vessel with the world's best equipment is pulling out and that reason is still unclear. i like to bring you the occasional warm story about canada and adoption. i put them together. stormy the lamb was born on a small farm -- abandoned by mom. to the rescue? yes, tami a year old golden retriever has taken the lamb under her wing and they have been joined at the hip every since, playing together and cuddling when they sleep, and a lot of times you see this relationship and they guarantee these two will be friends for life. >> look at the color of that lamb. >> yeah doesn't look like mom.
>> just like my family. >> that was a nice fix. i am ignoring what you just said. enjoy the digital hate coming your way right now. >> embrace it. >> that's at alisyn camerota. pamela geller, you know the name. she held the mohammed cartoon contest in texas, and two guys got killed instead, and now she wants to take the winning cartoon and put it all over the nation's capital. why? why does she think it's a helpful thing to do? a lot of people agree with her. she is here to explain and you decide.
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winning cartoon put on buses and subway stations in washington, d.c. and elsewhere. now, the reason we remember the contest is because we remember what happened. there was an attack by the would-be jihadist and they were taken out and the danger is real. and you saw how horrible it could be and thank god you are okay and nobody got hurt except the bad guys in that situation, and now to carry it forward and take the cartoon you know is offensive by the extremist, and make it public why is it good to do? >> the political and elites are sensoring the cartoon, and we think the american people should see, under the sharia you cannot depict mohammed.
the fact is it's an ainnocuous cartoon, and after the "charlie hebdo" slaughter, all of the media there ran the cartoons and they were obscene, and no media will run this cartoon. we did not elect the media to relinquish our freedom or freedom of speech and i think the american people need to ght to draw a picture of mohammed mohammed. some people are saying you are chilling her first amendment rights? nobody is saying you can't do it. >> i believe in freedom of
speech but -- once you say but, you are nullifying the freedom of speech. >> who is saying but? >> the organization organized an event in the venue where muslim groups was supporting the free speech and that's why we were there in texas. >> the criticism is what you did you knew would be provocative, and your keynote speaker is an outspoken and provocative person who is obviously an islam aphobe. >> anybody that opposed jihad terror and sharia is an ahrauplislam aphobe? >> no he is one. >> we were targeted for
slaughter. hundreds of people were targeted for slaughter and every since that time the media has been attack me? why aren't you doing on special on the jihadi on the holy war not just here in america. i am not responsible for the violence. >> we cover it very extensively here but that's not your point. >> is that my point. >> you were criticized and i wouldn't say victimized because without dispute what was done is wrong and terrible -- >> there are no pwutsbuts. >> now we get into why did it happen. they bought into an ideology that is sick and wrong, and that's fact. but what you did is calculated in a way that would be provocative. we are not afraid it's about whether it's right or not. the "n" word gets treated the
same way. >> you are adhering to the islamic law. since when you are sensitive to be offensive? calling tea party racist is offensive. since when do you care about being offensive? >> it's when something you know is being offensive. let's stick with the "n" word analogy? >> no it's a cartoon. the cartoon is political opinion. >> it's offensive to a group of people. >> it violates islamic law. >> it is not explicit sharia law, and it's real -- >> i encourage all of your viewers to go to pamelageller.com and you will see what chris is comparing to the "n" word. i am not going to debate -- >> why do people come and attack
you? why do they say it's offensive? they say -- >> they are trying to impose a sharia. >> that's not it. >> i am not a muslim and i don't see it as being offensive. >> that's why you have the right to do it but don't say just because you have the right to do it that means it's going to be inoffensive to all who see it and there is no price along with saying it. >> the first amendment protects ideas we don't like. >> nobody says you don't have the right. >> it's not ideas that we like because that's easy it's ideas we don't like. >> nobody says you can't do it. >> who would decide what is good and forbidden? i didn't make the cartoons a flash point. >> that's debatable. >> i will not submit. submission is slavery and i will not live as a slave and that's what you are asking me to do. >> no, no no.
it's about understanding the price of what you do. you want to put the cartoon up because i should be able to be whatever i want to be free and you don't extend that to islam, and you were very active in having a place to worship in ground zero. how is that not a complete hypocrisy. >> very shallow journalism. what you are saying is not so. hundreds of mosques in america and thousands in the country, i never protested them but a 15-story mega mosque in a building that was destroyed by the landing gear on 9/11 is deeply offensive, and they had been praying there since 2009 and they had been praying in that spot and i wrote about it in november of 2009 and we started protesting when they they had they were going to build a mosque which is where
christian and jews were forced to live -- >> that's not how it was explained by the group that wanted it. they wanted to do it to show tolerance and acceptance of all people by the people being blamed in mass on 9/11. >> you don't see that as a being offensive? >> no. >> there's a picture saying you can't draw me and it was drawn by a former muslim. you don't even see that you have saw saw comed to this. >> no it's not out of fear. >> free speech is very positive and progressive. >> again, we will end this part of the discussion here. >> i know you will draw the line chris. >> i understand that.
you definitely have the right to do it. >> you are not going to eat during ramadan, where are you going to draw the line? you are saying no cartoons and that could me it's free speech it's a cartoon, chris. snap out of it. >> i understand where you are coming from but there are two schools are thought on this and i appreciate you coming in to discuss it. >> thank you for having me. the republican frontrunner for the white house is very much unclear at this point, a five-way tie at the top of the new poll, and a new candidate jumps in the race, and we have 7 ahead. flonase is the 24 hour relief that outperforms a leading allergy pill. when we breathe in allergens our bodies react by over-producing six key inflammatory substances that cause our symptoms. most allergy pills only control one substance,
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spirit the sense that we are one people, and we will stop empowering the politicians -- >> that was former new york governor george pataki announcing his plans to join the presidential race this morning. he is joining a very crowded gop field as a new poll shows it's all tied up. jeb bush and carson and huckabee and rubio and walker
all getting 10%. >> i think pataki announced here with us. >> i do too. >> republican strategist ana navarro, and mrs. brazil. ana? >> chris, what can i tell you? there is no frontrunner or established candidate in the republican party. there's only one established candidate running in 2016 and her name is hillary clinton. i think it's going to be a very tough primary, a vigorous debate and a tough competition, and it's going to take a lot of smarts and money and resources, and frankly, a lot of political retailing by these candidates to step ahead. i think the debates are going to be a good chance for them to distinguish themselves and our field is big and it's going to keep getting bigger. you know it's all about how do
we distinguish one from the other, and i think that's the case they have to make in the next few months. >> it is a challenge. donna, are you surprised with jeb bush is polling in the same place as ben carson who is new to the name? >> no i am not surprised. the republicans have an open race and we have an open race on the democratic side, and yes, hillary clinton is the leader, and the republicans are going to continue this shopping spree probably throughout the summer and into the early fall until the winning out that occurs sometime during the debate, and these republicans are going to have to get down in all of those 99 counties and meet the voters and meet them and see if they can break away from the pack. >> donna, i hear what you are saying and you cannot look at the republican field and democratic field and saying you
are both having open fields right now. there is a contrast going on isn't there? >> it is open. i understand everybody already core tphaeutd the democratic nominee, but we have not had one vote. it takes a long time to accumulate delegates both on the republican side and the democratic side. this is not about popularity in polls and it's about being able to go out there and identify and recruit people to run as delegates and get them on the ballot so you can win the nomination so it's an open race in many ways. >> i want to ask you about carly fiorina, she tries to distinguish herself from hillary clinton and present the other alternative, if you want to vote for a woman there is another one in the upcoming presidential race. she keeps being asked about hillary clinton. let's listen to this moment. >> it's also true last year we did not know what we know now
about the hillary clinton. >> knowing what you know now -- >> well that's a hypothetical and my thought is they won't eup invite me again. >> the point is is she always in hillary's shadow? >> i am not sure she is always in hillary's shadow but she is always trying to step into hillary's spotlight, but that's a smart thing for carly could be doing. she never has been in elected office and she has very little name id so instead of you know mohammed going to the mountain the mountain goes to mohamud. she is piggy backing, and we are
talking about her, which -- >> that's true. at the end of the day, it has to be working, and she is a big part of the segment and probably would not have been otherwise. >> exactly. >> hillary is holding all these events and the people are going, the media, especially and she is not answering questions and we have been talking about it and people got tired of it but isn't it like she is too good to talk to us and that's the spin? >> what kind of withdrawal symptoms are you having this morning? all we have been doing since obama was re-elected in 2012 is talking about hillary. >> about her, and not to her. aren't you supposed to take questions when they are asked? >> you know what last time she received over 18 million votes and came up short on delegates, and i think she is doing the
right thing right now and that is making sure she is touching people where they live and work and play and pray so she can win the delegates. there will come a time when she will hold interviews and come on shows like this when she will speak about her values. i applied car leafyhrae carly fiorina. there is no reason why mitt romney and all the other republicans who attended the foundation meetings they should go back because some of the problems we are facing in the world, we need all hands on deck. >> thank you so much ladies. nice to see you. episodes have been pulled and advertisers are fleeing, so what is going to happen to the program?
the controversy surrounding "19 kids and counting," not officially canceling the show after a son admitted he molested underaged girls. so many things to talk about. i think right off the bat, do you buy the idea that tlc or discovery did not know about the molestation? >> people at "oprah" new it and called state services and i
imagine there was vetting going on the show years later and they made the decision that it took place as a teenager if they knew and decided to press ahead. and we are talking about the people at tlc are out there on the terrace holding on to the railing. >> this is bad, and it leaves a bad taste in lives, and the advertisers are pulling out, and we have seen that. they get 3.3 million in ratings that the viewership is very high for this network. >> and we will wait to see if another shoe drops. i don't want to give into the details of what happened, and it was a long time ago, he was 14 and somebody looked at it and decided to move on and i think they will wait to see if another shoe drops, and this will not be decided on debates on various web sites on people that don't watch the show anyway and they have 3.3 viewers, and they will
see what the parents did, and they will move on and watch the show. >> you have done a lot of writing about this and obviously you have written a piece about the belief structure behind what the dugger's believe, and it's called quiver fall. how do you think it plays out in what we are seeing happen? >> there's an important point mean to be made about indoctrination and they were home schooled. we have an interesting opportunity to talk about the belief system that was in place, and why the family handled it the way they did and why the public might be okay with that and really why they shouldn't be. >> you go into your article about their belief structure creating an environment that
fost fost khured child sex abuse. >> yeah on a smaller scale they had a home school curriculum -- this specific home school program that the dugger family was using and they promoted heavily on the blog and show had this victim-blaming mentality that stated that there are instances in which the abused to be at fault for sexual assault and it opened up the opportunities for men to believe they could get away with acts of violence and they could act with impunity and that victim should be the one shouldering the blame. >> you think it's going to take the focus away on what josh dugger did and focus on the religious beliefs. >> the show started because 19 kids are unusual. the idea that there are people that admire them and want to watch them and there are people that don't and think it's
freakish and camps from both of the sides will watch the show. i think the issues you raise are interesting, and maybe they should take the show off, and there is something like we don't like the idea so take the show off, and i don't know if that's the situation. >> a spinoff involving the sisters may be in the works, and do you think that's on the back burner now? >> no the family is popular. if they decide josh is a nonstarter and should not be on the show and take him off and have a spinoff with his sisters. that seems to make sense. i don't mean to sound cynical about it. >> thank you so much. we should point people to your article, and if they have more questions and thoughts they can look it up there. so are you ready for a little bit of the good stuff? what would the high school class give up their senior trip that
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not just someone. someone from angie's list. but we're not members. we don't have to be to use their new snapfix feature. angie's list helped me find a highly rated service provider to do the work at a fair price. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. a high school class in new hampshire just did an ordinary classy thing. four years they have been saving for the class trip 8 grand they put together and everybody looking forward to it. but then their beloved principal
diagnosed with a cancer and what did the kids do about it? >> we decided not to go on the senior class trip this year and donate all of our class funds to your cause. she is just very caring and selfless and we wanted to be selfless too. >> just as you are about to condemn the generation about being all about themselves the principal says she works hard teaching compassion and service and their act of kindness is proof they are listening, and i disagree i think they love her and she is somebody special in their lives. >> they will never forget this moment. neither will she. >> a great life lesson beyond the academics. let's hand it off to carol costello in the news room. >> now we all don't feel worthy
right? thanks have a great day. "newsroom" starts now. happening now in the "newsroom," title waive of water. >> we're live from the storm zone as rivers rise. also the army accidentally sends out live anthrax. how could this have happened? >> that's why we brought in the center for disease control. >> plus the fbi needs help tracking isis, and the bureau says it can't keep track of all the would-be jihadis in america, and so it's asking the police to help. let's talk live in the cnn "newsroom." good morning. i am