tv CNN Newsroom With Poppy Harlow CNN May 30, 2015 12:00pm-3:01pm PDT
3:00 eastern, i'm poppy harlow joining you from new york. ahead this hour the democratic field for president just got larger. former maryland governor marlin o'malley makes his bid official. his complicated history with rival hillary clinton, we'll talk about that and a lot more. also, top of mind, the clock is ticking. come midnight tomorrow the united states may find itself with fewer tools when it comes to fighting terrorism. key parts of the patriot act are set to expire unless senators can come to an agreement on sunday. i will talk live with one of those senators pushing for what he calls a compromise in just a moment. but we begin with the race
for the white house. eight years ago martin o'malley was endorsing stumping for hillary clinton when she was running for president. today he is challenging her for that job saying this to supporters in baltimore. >> recently the ceo of goldman sachs let his employees know that he'd be just fine with either bush or clinton. i bet he would. well i've got news for the bullies of wall street. the presidency is not a crown to be passed back and forth by you between two royal families. it is a sacred trust to be earned from the american people an exercise on behalf of the people of these united states. >> cnn's senior washington correspondent joins me now from baltimore where the former maryland governor launched his presidential bid this morning. what is your take on how he
approached this given his long history, jeff with the clintons? we're talking about someone who has -- the clintons have raised money for throughout his career. what do you think? >> reporter: no question poppy. i mean there is a relationship between them but every democrat in the country has a relationship with the clintons so martin o'malley is certainly not alone in that. it is a little awkward, no question about it. we heard him talk right there, one of the biggest applauses of his announcement speech by talking about hillary clinton in the same sentence as jeb bush. so it is going to be awkward going forward, but martin o'malley believes that it is time for a new generation of leadership. in his slogans, in his signs that were hanging up throughout this rally, it says new leadership. of course that is a not-so-subtle implication that hillary clinton is old leadership. so we'll see how voters and democrats accept this. but the real question is how aggressively he goes after her yet. we're not quite sure about that. >> he certainly did pretty aggressively there in his first
remarks as a candidate. when you look at his record not only as the governor of maryland but as the former mayor of baltimore, he touted a 42% decline in crime during his seven years as mayor in baltimore. i'm just wondering if you think he can claim any credit in baltimore given what we've seen erupt on the streets there in the past few months? >> well his record has mayor of baltimore certainly is going to be inspected once again. for the last year or so he's been talking about that record and how it's one of his attributes. the reality is it shows that the economy in the u.s. in major urban areas, it's a complicating factor. poppy, he embraced it today. he did not run away from his record. he said it's one of the reasons that politicians need to improve the economy. so his zero tolerance policy, was that a good idea? that is going to be debated. i was a little surprised how much he embraced that record as mayor here today. >> i think he had to bring it up. it would have been the elephant in the room if you don't talk
about what exploded on the streets of baltimore and he certainly did. at the same time it's stunning. the most recent quinnipiac polling shows hillary clinton with a huge lead among democratic voters. 57% compared to a 1% for martin o'malley. what is the strategy if you're sitting in martin o'malley's seat right now? how do you get that support up? how do you get that name recognition up? >> reporter: poppy, in one respect it's a plan b strategy. if something would happen to secretary clinton, if he would get sick for some reason or something would come up that would hurt her candidacy, he could be waiting in the wings. but the o'malley advisers they believe that there is an appetite for an alternative to her, at least to drive the debate. at least to raise some e.r. issues so there is no doubt that he has an uphill climb here. but a freshman senator named barack obama had an uphill climb
as well so things like that give governor o'malley hope. >> before you go we do have the tweet from hillary clinton sort of welcoming o'malley to the race saying welcome to the race governor o'malley. looking forward to discussing strong families and communities. it's certainly going to be interesting to watch. we've got three official democratic candidates now, o'malley clinton and bernie sanders. thanks jeff appreciate it. >> reporter: thanks poppy. we've gotten used to congress waiting until the last minute to get things done. this time they are doing it as you well know with the patriot act. yesterday president obama said the stakes are too high to wait any longer. >> i don't want us to be in a situation in which for a certain period of time those authorities go away and suddenly we're dark and and, heaven forbid we've got a problem where we could have prevented a terrorist attack or apprehended someone who was
engaged in dangerous activity but woee didn't do so simply because of inaction in the senate. >> reporter: well the senate is going to be back in session. tomorrow they're returning to washington in the afternoon with only a few hours left to renew portions of the patriot act before those segments expire at midnight. senator rand paul a republican tweeted this just a short time ago. there has to be another way, we must find it together, so tomorrow i will force the expiration of the nsa illegal spy program. now, if the provisions expire president obama, attorney general loretta lynch and some republicans like senator john mccain say americans will be vulnerable to new terror attacks. critics say it's time to stop violating americans' privacy in the name of security. here's how he described the concerns about the how the law stands currently. >> i know firsthand the power that big data holds.
i also know the great risks that arise when this power is abused. there is a clear and a direct threat to american civil liberties that comes from the mass collection of our personal information and our phone records. >> that was about a week ago and the senator joins me now live in washington. thank you for being here sir, i appreciate it. >> glad to be here poppy. >> as you just said you know there's a lot of power in data and you know there's a lot of risk when that power is abused. explain for our viewers how the usa freedom act ensures that the power is not abused because rand paul and others do not think that it's the answer. >> prior to serving in congress i spent 28 years in the private sector the last 12 years working for a cloud computing company. i've seen firsthand the power of meta data. the usa freedom act ends the bulk collection of meta data. it ends the nsa collecting
millions of phone records of innocent american people. and so first of all, it's important we protect national security that we keep the homeland safe from terror attack but we also must protect the personal liberties and freedoms of american people. and the usa freedom act strikes that right balance. we were just three votes away from passing it a week ago. >> and rand paul saying he's not going to help you get that through. here's what it doesn't end, though it doesn't end the phone companies and internet companies gathering that data. it can't then just stream directly to the nsa, you have to go to a court to get approval to access that data. some people say the companies shouldn't be collecting it either. >> what's important there, though is it ensures that we comply with the fourth amendment, and that is due process. when there's a need to get records on a terrorist, on a criminal there's a process to go through with judges to ensure we get that information to either prevent an attack or prosecute a terrorist or a criminal. that's the balance we want to
strike here. we want to allow our law enforcement the ability to get the information they need but end the bulk collection of data on innocent american people. >> you are close to senator rand paul republican presidential candidate now. today he issued this statement as i just read saying he's going to force the expiration of this program. do you believe that he is putting the nation at risk by doing so? >> well i think it's important that we allow the senate to debate this important act. let the senators come to the floor. let us debate amendments. there's move forward here put the usa freedom act on the floor of the senate and have an open debate. >> if he won't support it sir, do you believe he's putting the nation at risk? because if you can't get that through, this expires and so you have nothing. >> well the senate need to have acted a week ago. a week ago today we were three votes short and fighting hard on the senate floor. it failed by three votes to move forward. we would not be in this position today. but going forward now, we must put the usa freedom act on the
floor. it passed overwhelmingly in the house. a second circuit court in new york ruled it is illegal. so it's time for the senate to act. we'll have the bill on the floor tomorrow and move forward as quickly to get it passed. >> go ahead and finish sir. >> to get it passed and ensure again, i think the usa freedom act strikes that right balance, protecting the homeland from terror attacks while at the same time protecting the personal freedom and liberty of the american people. >> one of the things that a lot of us find interesting is the fact that we did hear from the president about it yesterday. loretta lynch did one interview about it last week with cbs. but we haven't really seen sort of a huge rush to the media from lawmakers on either side other than we've heard a lot from rand paul about this. do you think perhaps the president, his administration maybe some republicans, john mccain and others should have been out even more this week? >> well, i'm not speaking about that today. i think it's very important that we get the additional three votes that we need.
i think we'll get it passed on sunday night. now, by the rules of the senate with objections and so forth, it may -- the patriot account may very well expire sunday night. but we've got to start moving forward here. we could have done this a week ago. this is the nature of washington, d.c. always managing by crisis which is very unfortunate. but the next step is to put the usa freedom act on the floor of the senate tomorrow night. let's pass it and start the debate and then we should get the vote through by the middle or end of this coming week. >> it sounds like you do think you have the votes, though? >> i think we'll have the votes. if it is put pack on the floor of the senate tomorrow night, i think we'll have the votes to proceed. >> we'll be watching. senator steve daines thank you very much. why should you care if these provisions expire? what do they mean to you personally? we'll talk about an internet security expert who knows a lot about this david kennedy, coming up. the man seen in this video is an isis commander. so how is it that he honed his skills right here in america? that's next.
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america's point man on krournting isis is pledging more support to iraq. general john allen met with iraqi leaders in baghdad today after a week of losses in anbar province that he calls frustrating. he offered to send 2,000 anti-tank grenade launchers in addition to continuing the coalition air strikes. his visit follows a bombshell in washington. get this a man who spent years in this country training to fight terrorists has now defected to isis. even more frightening, he's calling for a jihad on american soil. our brian todd has his story.
>> reporter: we've got new information about an isis fighter. he's a former colonel with the counterterror police. we have learned that this man was trusted enough to be allowed inside the united states for extensive counterterror training. donned in isis black, he confidently carries a long sniper rifle. he picks off a tomato to show his skill. this is an isis video, and cnn has just learned this man trained on american soil. the fighter says he's a former commander in a special police counterterror unit in a key u.s. ally. >> translator: from 2003 to 2008 i received specialized training in america on the military base of blackwater. >> reporter: blackwater a controversial u.s. contracting company which sent private security personnel to iraq and trained other countries' fighters at this compound in
north carolina. contacted by cnn, academy, the company that purchased the training facility was unable to confirm that he was there. the state department tells cnn he participated in five counterterrorism courses in the u.s. between 2003 and last year. we spoke with former army sniper paul shari about what he might have learned. >> what skills that he would have learned do you think might hurt allied forces on the battlefield? >> the trieps of trainypes of training would have been basic tack texas and maneuvers, the ability to move through a building move through an area in a tactical way. basic marksmanship. >> reporter: u.s. contractors wouldn't have trained him to be -- >> the real problem is he knows how to plan counterterrorism operations. he knows how the people who protect a high-value target will be thinking. how people who protect an
embassy would be thinking. that gives him the ability to think about how to disrupt those plans. >> reporter: another ominous signal his threat against what he called american pigs. >> translator: god willing, we will come to your cities to your homes, and we will kill you. >> the state department says all appropriate vetting was done for him before he came to the united states. officials have so far not commented on this man or the video. he has a skill, a very dangerous one, that goes beyond what he can do with a sniper rifle. in the video he speaks russian. analysts say that's a marketing decision by isis to use him as a tool to recruit other fighters from central asia. >> wow, it is stunning. great reporting there from our brian todd. just ahead we'll talk more about this. are there more fighters trained here in america like this and then taking all of that knowledge over to join isis. we'll discuss, next. when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert. that would be my daughter
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it is stunning because this commander spent years training strategizing with u.s. forces. now he's threatening to kill americans. how damaging is this? how seriously do you take this threat? >> well i've got to say it's a big blow in terms of pr and isis knows it. that's why they put him out there. but this is also what u.s. officials have been warning against when they say here's exactly why we're moving slowly to build a force to fight isis. this is how hard it is to vet someone and their loyalty before you bring them into the camp and train them with some of these key skills. you can't get inside someone's head and heart and mind. you can give them a polygraph, but polygraphs can be beaten and people can also change their minds. who knows if that's what happened with this guy. he might have been loyal in the beginning, but something he saw overseas or didn't see in terms of u.s. participation changed his mind and he went to the other side. >> and he actually said that
what he saw here among members of the u.s. military he said that they were out to kill muslims and out against islam and that that is what turned him, what he saw while he was training here. it sounds like you're saying no more vetting could have been done. so does that call this kind of training entirely into question? >> reporter: you know it does. and yet this kind of training has risks and everyone involved with it knows that. now did this man when he was training in the states possibly with some of the veterans who felt very bitter about what they saw overseas did he see certain strains of anti-muslim sentiment? he probably did, and so the people training these would be loyalists to the anti-isis effort have to think about that. they are ambassadors who are then sending these people back to the war zone as ambassadors for the american military and the american public. >> is there any way to know if
someone like this who defects after this u.s. training and strategizing, is an anomaly or if there are more like them out there? i mean is there -- what does your expertise tell you? >> reporter: you can bet right now what u.s. intelligence is doing is going back over every single person who's ever had training as best they can and trying to determine where are they now. but there's really no way to know in that until someone like this chooses to make themself public the isis battlefield is getting thousands of new recruits every month, and it's very hard to track. that's part of the problem here. >> yeah. and as the head of the fbi has said they have these open cases in every single u.s. state right now looking at potential isis sympathizers and people recruited to go fight with them. kimberly dozier thank you, appreciate it. coming up parts of texas getting more rain after a week of flooding. the state now declared a major disaster area by president
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saturated. it cannot absorb any more water. president obama has declared a major disaster for texas. that means federal aid is on the way, but at least 22 people have already died in texas as a result of the severe weather there this spring. flooded highways left hundreds of drivers stranded yesterday in dallas with nowhere to go. dan simon joins me now from highlands, texas, near houston. you are standing in it. it was absolutely pouring yesterday. and i guess they could get more rain tonight? >> reporter: the forecast is calling for more rain tonight. we just don't know how much. we've seen varying degrees in terms of what the forecast is calling for. some have said 1 to 3 inches. we've seen as much as 5 inches. i have to tell you, you know we're seeing something that we haven't seen for a while in this part of texas and that's the sun. that means that streets like this are seeing the water go back into the river. that's the san jacinto river and that's where the water spilled from and that's telling the story throughout this area.
the water is going back into the rivers so that means we're really drying up here in texas. the question is what's going to happen tonight. again, the forecast is calling for rain. you talked about it the grounds are just soaked. if we see those 5 inches that may occur, then you might see more flooding. but if you get 1 to 2 inches then it looks like we'll be okay. poppy. >> and i know that this federal aid is on the way now because it's been officially sort of declared a disaster area by the president. do we know what kind of aid is coming and when it might get there? >> reporter: that's a good question. usually takes some time to sort out, but you have 1400 homes in the houston area that received some type of damage. of course you always have a certain amount of people who don't have flood insurance and that's really going to come in handy for some of those folks. it just kind of takes some time. i should tell you that one thing that the mayor here in houston wanted folks to know she wanted people to call 311, the nonemergency hotline, to report their damage. not everybody does that. and based upon the number of
people who report their damage there's a corresponding effect in terms of the federal dollars that come here so she wanted everybody to know to make sure and call that number and tell -- you know report your damage. >> yeah that's a good point. they need as much help as they can get. what a disaster it's been there for weeks on end now. dan, thank you. natalee holloway disappeared in aruba ten years ago today. now a new lead in the case. we'll take you live to aruba with a report next. get the complete balanced nutrition of ensure. with nine grams of protein...
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something the natalee holloway case has never had, an eyewitness. >> you were the last person to see natalee holloway alive? >> yes. >> so where have you been because it's been ten years. >> reporter: actually de jong isn't new, he's been speaking out for years. he called natalee's father and said -- >> she's on land and i know where her body is hidden. my initial thought is this is another crazy. >> reporter: he's gone to the police numerous times, even given a sworn statement. >> what happened? >> nothing. >> reporter: here's his version. on the night natalee holloway vanished de jong said he was doing something illegal at a construction site. he won't say what. around 2:00 a.m. he sees a young man who later he identifies as joran van der sloot, chasing a young woman into the site. >> i thought first in a playful way like i'm going to get you. >> reporter: he said the couple disappeared into a small section of construction. >> after five minutes, he came out with her in his arms.
>> reporter: and it was what he saw the man do that told de jong the woman was dead. >> he really slammed her. and then you don't start hiding this person in the crawl space. >> reporter: joran van der sloot is serving 28 years in prison for the murder of a young woman in peru. he's never been charged in the natalieee holloway case. now de jong's testimony seems to practically solve the mystery of what happened to natalee, and nearly ten years after she disappeared, authorities have finally got around to investigating it. >> i don't know if he's lying. i can only say that his statement can't be true. >> reporter: that construction site in 2005 is now a 12-story vacation report owned by marriott. and the prosecutor says marriott informed him at the time natalee vanished there was no construction. >> because when there's no
construction construction natalee holloway can't be buried in the crawl space under the foundation. >> reporter: that certainly seems true. but dave holloway believes marriott may be possibly wrong about those construction dates. holloway led a number of searches for his daughter on aruba, and he remembers the place. >> i was there on june 1st and there was definitely construction in that area. june 1st 2005. >> reporter: and this google earth view from june 2005 a short time after natalee vanished appears to show a construction site and the fuzzy shapes of structures. we asked marriott for clarification, but in a statement the company made no mention of the building saying only as we have done all along, we cooperate fully with authorities whenever they are conducting an official investigation. >> what he's describing in his story matches what's physically there at the time so i'm thinking man, this could be -- this could be something,
something that really needs to be looked at closely. >> reporter: holloway wants a search but authorities say that's not going to happen. >> it's useless to search there with a cadaver dog or drilling or whatever. one thing will be sure she's not lying there. she can't be lying there. >> joining me now, cnn's martin savidge, who is live in aruba. also with us cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes. he previously served as the fbi's national office's lead on this case. first, marty, to you. you heard natalee holloway's father there seemingly hopeful that he might finally get some answers, finally get closure. how frustrated is he that the authorities will not allow a search? >> reporter: he's very frustrated. he calls me every day and asks you know what is the latest what are you hearing from them. you know he's learned over the years that you get these leads, many of them don't pan out.
but as time has worn on and his daughter of course has not been found, any new lead becomes really important to him. he guards his emotions against it but you can sense it that he feels strongly on this and he wants it looked at. >> the prosecutors, though seem skeptical about this man and his tip. i wonder why? >> reporter: they are. they don't share, of course everything they know to us despite the questions we ask. they primarily point out that information that they received from marriott that said the construction or what he described as construction didn't exist at that time. we've already seen that there are some who refute that. they just don't buy it. they have looked at the case file. this is a new prosecutor. he's gone through thousands of pages and he says it doesn't add up. still, it's a lead. i don't see why he has to have proof positive to go forward. but it seems he does. >> well it's a great question for tom fuentes, right? you were at the fbi, sort of
overseeing the international offices, trying to work with the aruban authorities at the time. you say it was unbelievably frustrating the lack of cooperation you guys got. >> no that's right, poppy. everything seemed to be in slow motion on their part. and they didn't really want to admit that she was murdered. now, by statutory authority, the fbi has the lead anywhere in the world if a u.s. citizen is murdered and in this case we didn't know for sure that she was, but the indications were that she probably met with foul play and time is of the essence in a case like that. so we just ran into this difficulty. i sent the legal attache from our office in bridgetown barbados. went to aruba. we offered all -- just extensive resources to assist the arubans forensic investigators as well as regular investigators, and they really weren't interested in it in the beginning, didn't want it. didn't want us to come down there in the beginning. they thought they could get all the help they needed from their own mothership the netherlands.
and we just found it so difficult. just as a difference you know in the u.s. when we have a case like this not just the fbi, our police agencies as well you would do everything possible as soon as possible with as many resources as you can to get every camera on that island every restaurant every casino talk to every bartender, every waitress all the hotel managers all the concierges try to identify where she was. she had partied the previous night with joran and two other friends of his so this was not a new encounter for her to be with him that evening. when the chaperone said we're going back to the hotel, why don't you come with us she said no i'm with friends, i'm fine. that was the last they saw of her. but the constant frustration on our part was do more do it faster. we know you don't have the resources, we do we'll bring them immediately, and they weren't interested in it. i think it was about six weeks
after a meeting at fbi headquarters where they finally allowed us to send somebody down to do a forensic search of joran's vehicle, which his father had already scrubbed clean by the time we got down there. >> so marty, what does -- obviously you've been in touch with natalee holloway's father throughout you covered the story when it broke. what does he say knowing things like what the fbi was allowed and not allowed to do? >> reporter: well they have always felt that the arubans here did not handle the case properly. they have been deeply angered by that, and they believe that that is continuing to this day. to tom's point here we should say just how rudimentary their investigative efforts can be here. you need let's say a cadaver dog, if you want to check this theory out, and they don't have any on the island. they would have to be brought in. so they have very basic investigative ability. they need help. >> and her family deserves answers. tom fuentes martin savidge, thank you guys both. coming up the nation's spy program, the one we use to track
would be terrorists in this country, the key parts of it may expire tomorrow night if congress cannot agree and pass what some are calling a compromise. what does it mean for you, next. art has a power to let children discover who they are. every child needs to have space for them to create. when i moved to new york city i noticed that access to art education was lacking. i decided that we need to be the ones to put paintbrushes in the hands of kids. we opened art classes in public libraries that are near the schools that need us most. >> you're on a roll here what's going on? >> reporter: . >> our goal is not to create artists. our goal is to let kids discover
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there are no ease is si answers here. we all naturally want perfect prif si and perfect safety. but those who things cannot coexist. you can't have a pet falcon and pet volume vowel. either you have to lose one of them or accept some reasonable restrictions on both of them. >> that was john oliver, whose episode on the patriot act has been viewed almost 7 million time times on youtube. as we reported, senators are return to capitol hill tomorrow afternoon. it gives them just a few hours to renew key portions of the
patriot act. if they don't act, they will expire tomorrow night at midnight. one of the biggest hurdles is is the way this law has been applied. even a congressman who wrote much of the act was never supposed to justify the bulk collection of americans' phone records. >> i was the principle author of the patriot act signed by president bush in 2011. and i ls was the principle author of the two rer authorizations in 2006 and in 2011. let me say that the revelations about section 215 were a shock and that if the bulk collection program was debated by the congress in each of these three instances, it never would have been approved. >> let's talk about it with someone who can break down what it really means for you and me and every other citizen of this country, david kennedy, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> we hear lawmakers, democrats and republicans, talk about
section 215, which has allowed the bulk collection of data by the nsa. they keep saying they are collecting metadata. they don't have anything private about you. is that the case? is that what metadata really is? >> no, it's to gain intelligence and understand what's happening out there so they can hopefully prevent attacks or see what other kouncountries are doing. when you collect a large amount of data around united states citizens, that becomes problematic because you're giving the government data on what everybody is doing on a day-to-day basis. that's scary because you have a large amount of data that the government now holds and starts to get invasive on united states citizens. >> are they really hearing if i make a call to my friend are they really hearing what i'm saying? break this down for the average person. the phone company has my records of all of the people that i have called of phone numbers. they have that already.
>> absolutely. it comes down to a privacy concern. do you trust the government with a large amount of information around every united states citizen? if you look at the traditional programs they were very targeted at going after individual terrorists or people they identified as being potentially a cell or folks that had been known to be talking to radicalized terrorists. so those are programs that we accept as the united states. but when you look at what edward snowden released and the information out there, they can collect any information on large percentages of the american population there's a lot of room where things can happen. there were known documented instances within the nsa where they would have calls and conversation as part of a direct violation, but they had the capabilities of doing that. it comes down the fact of do you want the government holding that large amount of data. the answer is definitely not. >> in all of technology that exists today s there a more
effective way to do this? a more effective way to collect data so if someone went rogue at the nsa, is there some other more full proof way to do this but keep us safe? that's the concern we have heard in recent weeks from the president, attorney general loretta lynch last week. >> i think that's the question we all need to be asking. when i was -- i worked for the nsa when i was in the military intelligence piece. our collections were mostly single intelligence things flying through the air. we went into technology so fast so there hasn't been a lot of checks and balances put into place to ensure we're protecting other types of information that would be sensitive to americans and could be potentially used against the government. i think it's going to be a a progressist discussion that we have to protect our information. they are not targeting individuals that don't deserve to be targeted that are perfectly law-abiding citizens and focus on that as a part of a discussion and build that technology. i don't feel we have done enough. >> do you think there's been
enough coordination between the tech companies, phone companies and government on this? there's sort of this push and pull and divide if there was more collaboration, we could get what we need while protecting those liberties. >> i think a lot of the tech companies, a lot of them have different motives. microsoft and apple have come towards the privacy route in removing hooks that the government would have. whereas google and facebook are large amount of business comes from personal information. so it's going to require a lot of drive from the tech companies, a lot of drive from individual citizens as well to take privacy seriously. >> we'll watch what happens, we'll know by midnight tomorrow night. thank you, david. looking ahead to next hour, what to do with the taliban five the terrorists freed from guantanamo in exchange for american soldier bowe bergdahl.
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he has traveled the world but for anthony bourdain there's no place like new jersey. from fried hot dogs to ta taffy, it's a new episode of "parts unknown" tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. only here on cnn. here's a preview. >> people drive up the turnpike. they don't turn off and go up into the area. >> i think it's beautiful. >> northern new jersey is the
embroidery capital of the world. >> will people come across the bridge and the tunnel in the other direction? >> no. i did not have to think about that. >> let's go out to a club in jersey. >> it's all relative. a 25-year-old girl is saying i'm not going to jersey. >> there's your answer. >> we're hitting this stop at what age. >> hipness is overrated. 4:00 eastern here in the cnn newsroom, i'm poppy harlow in new york. crucial talks are underway to decide whether the taliban five should be set free or moved. these are the five terrorists and former detainees of
guantanamo bay. they were exchanged for the freedom of former prisoner of war bowe bergdahl. qatar agreed to hold and monitor the taliban five for one year. we'll tell you about what options are on the table as the u.s. negotiate this is right now. also fighters in iraq are desperately trying to shove militants away from a crucial highway. the problem is isis is planted dangerous traps all over that area. cnn got rare access to the front lines. we'll bring you that. as well as president obama sending his point man on the war in isis to iraq. general alan meeting with iraq's prime minister today. are changes in the works for the strategy to defeat isis? finally a college student is being called a hero. he gave up his life to stop an isis suicide bomber from reaching his target. tomorrow marks one year since this moment when sar jackpot bowe bergdahl finally climbed aboard that u.s. chopper
released from five years of captivity in afghanistan in exchange the united states transferred five guantanamo inmates to qatar for one year. that deal expires on monday. u.s. and qatar officials are meeting to decide what to do with the men now. let's talk about it with tom fuentes, kimberly dozer and bob baer. when you look at this, you have the u.s. that has a say. you have qatar that has more of a say because they are holding these guys. and afghanistan, the taliban in afghanistan has somewhat of a say as to what happens. what's the safest thing for the world to happen to these guys? >> well poppy, let me put it this way. what's going to happen is they are going to send these guys to pakistan who will promise to watch them and they'll get back into the taliban one way or another. i don't think it's particularly catastrophic for us in the sense that five loose guys back in
afghanistan aren't going to change the fortunes in the battlefield. >> why not? >> these guys are important. they are middle age, they are not young fighters. they have been at it a long time. i wouldn't call them foot soldiers but they are not key to that war. there are other key people. if we could close that network down, you could do something about afghanistan. i just don't look at these guys as that dangerous. >> we do know that at least one of them has tried to make contact or made contact with terrorists after being released. they are not young fighters but couldn't they be very powerful in terms of the ideology saying i was held in guantanamo bay, here's what it was like here's what happens to me sort of helping spread that message to encourage those that want to do harm to the united states? >> i think you're absolutely right that this would be a boost of confidence for the taliban and for its followers inside
afghanistan. that they would have its former leadership held in guantanamo now celebrating freedom inside afghanistan. but to bob's point, they haven't been part of the campaign for a very long time. also we're now moving to a stage where the afghan government is trying to engage in serious talks with the taliban leadership and make them part of the political process. so releasing prisoners, including the leaders, that's always been part of the process of ultimately making peace. >> tom, what do you think? it's interesting that their families are also with them in qatar so you're actually talking about a group of about 70 all in. do you think they end up in pakistan? >> i think, yes, i agree that i don't think they are really terribly dangerous. one or two might end up trying to get back on the battlefield, some feeble attempt at it, but i
don't know they will be successful at it. it's more of a propaganda win for them to join the taliban and say we survived guantanamo and defeated the americans, here we are alive and well. it's more political ability they would have as opposed to real war fighting capability. >> bob how much say does the u.s. have in all of this? >> i think this was all done with a wink and a nod. hold them a year don't make it look too bad for us. the administration treat ded this as a prisoner of war exchange rather than trading terrorists. like the administration often does is hope people forget what it was all about. plus bowe bergdahl has been indicted for deserting his post. i think the administration just wants this all to go away and this is sort of a way out. >> but if you're looking at it from a political lens do you
think that it does just all go away? you saw republicans seize on the administration for even making this deal without alerting congress without getting their approval talking about what a risk they are. >> it doesn't help autoall. you look at the obama administration and frankly it's do nothing pollicy in the middle east from libya to iraq syria, yemen, hands off is not working. so for the 2016 elections, it's not going to help the democrats. the democrats whatever they do right now are in trouble and this it will be part of their problem. >> kimberly? >> i was just going to add that i think the political lens is exactly why you see negotiations right now. it would be much more convenient for the obama administration if these five remain in qatar and watched for at least one more year to get them through the end of this administration. >> thank you all very much i appreciate it.
also this story that we want to bring you. an american college student killed in an isis attack. he's being remembered as a hero. 22 years old, an electrical engineering student, he died when he tried to stop a suicide bomber from blowing himself up yesterday. he returned to saudi arabia to get married. . friends say he made the ultimate sacrifice. >> because of his bravery and heroism, he saved a lot of people. >> he's like a brother for everybody. if you can see him right now you're going to see a smile on his face. >> and now to the battle against isis in iraq. fighters there are trying to dodge booby traps and mines from a crucial highway near baghdad. nick paton walsh got rare access
to the front lines. >> reporter: shia fighters say they have just taken the town ahead of us. but look just to the right of the black smoke here. it's not that simple. mines are at the road side past the tree line. the blasts being cleared away by engineers or taking more lives. we have now heard two thuds. we're told there's a a controlled explosion of mines in the area that have just cleared and they seem quite calm here but it could also be that one of their cars have hit one of the mines laid for us. this is what they videoed of the fight for this town close to a vital highway north. isis just pushed out to its edges. as we move closer it gets messier. we think of lands nearby that
stay in the car. we have been waiting on the road there have been three or four substantial explosions which may well be their fighters coming across traps lain in the area. it shows you how incredibly hard it's going to be to retake land here for people to come back to live. as we move out, shia fighters pour north up the road. this is what victory against isis looks like. little to saver. the improsecution you get from seeing that is how chaotic the front lines could be. different militia groups working alongside each other. they say advancing substantially along along the main highway roots and pushing back in the area you just saw there that isis were encircled nearby. but those explosions consistent a sense of volatility on the highway as well. i think you see in areas like that how long this conflict could go on for.
you may change hands, but for years many when the americans had a presence here in iraq, a warfare and sending bombs into areas that don't have a cone of presence is very hard to stop and very hard to e see how peace really and a sense of society getting back to normal can rain here in the years ahead in iraq. nick paton walsh, cnn, baghdad. >> nick thank you. gridlock on capitol hill. this time it involves national security. is a patriot act essential for fighting terror? former assistant directors give their take.
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come midnight tomorrow the united states may find itself with fewer tools when it comes to fighting terrorism. if lawmakers can't come to an agreement, e key parts of the patriot act will expire. president obama is warning of serious consequences if something is not passed. critics say fears over security should never trump privacy. let's talk about it with tom fuentes and bob baer. i want to begin with oun one of the provisions. the three key things will expire if nothing is passed. one of them is the u.s. government would lose the ability to track and monitor every movement of the suspected lone wovllves unless they are directly connected toistst or another terrorist group. however, the government admits they never even used that authority. so why does it matter if something like that lapses? >> well, poppy, i worked for two
years on an international assassination investigation for the united nations. the entire investigation depended on the same sort of metadata you use to track potential terrorists. if someone gets on twitter and it looks like a jihadist and that's as far as you go you're not going to know for sure, but if you get to the point where they are making phone calls to make reservations to go to turkey to buy weapons, any number of databases, the fbi can predict it may not have saved lives until this point, but certainly at some point it will be crucial to breaking a terrorist attack. i realize the possible abuses in all of this, you have to take care of those. but the patriot act should be renewed if not renewed and revised. >> do you think it should be revised, tom? >> the best example is in the case prior to 9/11.
in order to get fisa authority to do surveillance under a national security case, you to had prove what either agent of a foreign power this person was. and what authorities were trying to say was if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck that's what they were trying to say, we don't know if he's card carrying al qaeda and would it be boko haram, you almost have to list where the membership of this person is. with all these internet wanna bees. if you can't link them you can't use the wiretap authority on them for national security. that was a critical lapse. at the time i remember the fbi taking a beating like you should have been up on this guy and they said we couldn't. we didn't the authority. that was one of the fixes of the
patriot act. >> i want you guys to listen to the former chair of the house intelligence committee and what he said on the situation room with wolf blitzer thursday. >> one of the reasons we have this program is because they missed, the intelligence and law enforcement missed the phone call from yemen from a safe house into the united states after the event of 9/11 we found out that was one of the calls to the 9/11 hijackers. wouldn't it have been great for that to kick off an investigation to determine who did they call and why did they call. you'll lose that part. >> so bob, he says you'll lose that part. but this is the question of where the line is between privacy and important intelligence like that. isn't that a debate the american public should have? >> it's a debate we should have we should build safeguards that's why i talk about the revision of the patriot act. once you draw those in and can
watch this and make sure there's no political abuses of the system to a certain extent we have to give up our privacy. that's simply what we have to do at this point. and i understand the concerns of americans, but it does keep us safe. 9/11 could have been solved if all those databases had been combined and the fbi had been allowed to open an investigation, we could have arrested most of those guys before they acted. >> tom, even the republican lawmaker who wrote most of the patriot act, the congressman from wisconsin said it wasn't meant to be use edd in this way as section 215 has used it to year after year bulk collect this data. >> i'm not sure what he's talking about frankly, but one other provision is roving wiretap authority. when i ran the organized crime program years ago, we had that authority.
so when gangsters started cloning phones, you had to have the authority on that individual device or individual pay phone they were using. under the roving authority, you have authority to say this person is a gangster and all these devices we'd like authority that no matter which device he picks up today if he's having criminal conversations, we can maintain coverage. we had had it for organized crime figures. it was a gap in the legislation. that's another one that will go by the boards if this act isn't renewed or provision isn't e renewed. the ability to do roving authority on the bad guy, not on the bad phone. >> they'd have to go to the courts, a judge for each and every device. it's an important debate and it is top of mind in washington certainly. we'll see what's tomorrow night. thank you both very much. coming up he was two
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hillary clinton. >> we are allowing our land of opportunity to become a land of inequality main street struggles while wall street soars. tell me how it is. tell me how it is that not a single wall street ceo was convicted of a crime related to the 2008 economic beltmeltdown. not a single one. >> well o'malley endorsed hillary clinton for president in the 2008 race. on friday he called her to let her know he'd be running against her. the call was short and cordial. in response clinton tweeted welcome to the race looking forward to discussing strong families and communities. stunning scandal involving dennis hastert, under indictment for lying to the fbi about huge sums of cash he withdraw as hush money to cover up sexual abuse with one of his former students.
this dates back to his early years as a teacher and coach and long before his political career started. so far he's not said a word about it. we are more from washington. it's interesting that he or his lawyer has not come out and said one thing. is he going to have to face reporters a the some point soon? >> reporter: absolute i, i would imagine so poply. he's been quiet, his lawyers have been quiet. this is as so many questions still remain over this. here's what we know. according to sources, hastert was paying a former male student to keep quiet about allegations of sexual abuse. that was from the time he was a teacher and wrestling coach in illinois well before e he came to washington and start z his career in politics. he was indicted thursday by the department of justice for lying to the fbi about a $3.5 million he agreed o to pay to the undies close closed recipient. he only paid $1.7 million of
that before this indictment came from the department of justice. hastert is known here in washington for being squeaky clean, so this did come as a surprise and a shock to so many here. here's a response from the white house press secretary. >> i think i can speak pretty faithfully for everybody here at the white house that even though speaker hastert served as a speaker of the house in the other party, there's nobody here who draws new pleasure from reading about the former speaker's legal troubles. >> reporter: a friend of hastert, who has known him since the '70s, said he spoke with him yesterday about all of these allegations. he tells cnn, quote, he perceives himself as the one being wrong, but this friend did not speak about the allegations. >> makes you wonder if we'll see him in court any sign soon. will he have to make an appearance in front of a judge?
>> reporter: we expect him to as early as next week but no date has been set. he was not arrested by the department of justice. they believe he wasn't a flight risk wasn't a danger to the community. >> thank you, appreciate it. coming up we're going to talk about policing in communities, minority communities, my interview with the milwaukee district attorney who tells me about an experiment he put his own department through to see if there was bias and what he found out, next.
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i have great credit. how do you know? duh. try credit karma. it's free and you can see what your score is right now . i just got my free credit score! credit karma. really free. over the past few months protests in cities like madison,walk baltimore, brooklyn and ferguson, missouri have shaped a national debate about how police do their jobs in communities made up largely of minorities. it's reignited the debate over
the criminal justice system. hillary clinton said this on the campaign trail. >> it should extend throughout our system to prosecutors and parole officers to judges and lawmakers. e we all share a responsibility to help restitch the fabric of our neighborhoods and communities. >> it's time to end the era of mass incarceration. >> is the justice system bias in this country? how likely is it that a prosecutor will charge, try and imprison a black person for a crime where a white person might be given a second chance. let's take a look at wisconsin. african-americans make up 6% of the 5.7 million people who live in the state. but in wisconsin state prison system, 37% of the population is african-american. and in milwaukee county one study from 2010 shows that more than half of black men in their 30s had already at some point
served some jail time. the district attorney for milwaukee county joins me now. he's long been concerned about the racial imbalances in america's prisons. so much so that he allowed his office to participate in an experiment which is the focus of a new yorker magazine story recently written by cnn's jeffrey toobin. thank you for being here i appreciate it. >> i'm glad to be here. >> you had your staff take part in this study in which your teams' decision a about whether or not to charge a suspect or not were reviewed for racial fairness. how many times was a white person charged for a drug offense compared to a black person with the same offense? or how many times did black women suspected of being prostitutes face charges over suspected white women who were suspected of being prostitutes. why did you decide to put your staff as a part of this study? >> our fundamental obligation as
criminal justice professionals is to serve our community and do so in a way that's fair and that addresses the concerns in the community in an effective way that really makes a difference and minimizes the harmful effects and often unintended contact with the justice system. >> what did you find? what were some of the most startling things that you found? >> it was fascinating. overall, we found we did a fair and balanced job when you look at all of our charging decisions across the board, but we saw troubling trends particularly in the lower offense categories and particularly in the drug offense categories where we saw a wide disparity. >> you're saying your office was charging african-americans more than whites for the same crimes. did you get to the bottom of why that was happening? >> sure it's a tremendously complex undertaking. what it required us to do is just go step by step from the process from when a person is
arrested to when we review the charging decision and when they are sentenced by the court, when they go back into the department of corrections, they go back into the community, why do they come back into the system we examined all those issues and we found certain things that we decided immediately we could change that process and develop other alternatives besides charging in some cases or developing other alternatives that actually got to the heart of why the person was coming into the system in the first place. >> you want you to respond to one of your hashest critics, sheriff david clark, he's a frequent guest on this program. he told the new yorker, my soft on crime opponents emerged from candy land to propose second chances, third chances and
fourth chances in the process of endangering our homes, our neighborhoods and our schools. what's your reaction to him? >> it's a false narrative. it is a completely false narrative. that is that we have an obligation to address the serious issues that occur in our community and we always address violent crime as our number one priority. the issues that we're looking at is the lower level offenders that come into our system again and again and again, so we spend each and every day addressing violent crime and taking it very seriously. >> some of your critics would point to the fact that homicides are up in milwaukee if you look at the numbers this year versus last year they are about double. they'd say this method isn't working. it's not reducing crime. what do you say to them? >> then i ask them to look at the actual data because once we started this process we actually achieved the lowest homicide rate and lowest violent crime rate in every 20 years. there's no question that some of those numbers have been creeping up but it is a separate issue. what the research tells us and we have to really commit ourselves to objectively looking at what works and what doesn't work and what the research has
shown us is for the low risk offenders that our disproportionately detained in your jail systems and house of corrections and the prison system you can often times create greater problems than you're solving. if you're overcommitting your resources, that's taken away from the resources that you can dedicate to those violent offenders, whether that's domestic violence or the people that use guns to commit crimes the sexual offenders. we only have limited resources and we should focus the full system response on the feem that are dangerous and that need to be removed from the community. we have to come up with alternatives for those lower risk offenders that solve their problems in the community and with the community. >> it is fascinating what you guys have embarked on and continue to do in your department. thank you for sharing a little bit about it with us.
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police say she was resisting arrest. she says she was treated like an animal animal because of her race. cnn has her story. >> what are you doing? >> how did dropping off children at school suddenly escalate to this? police body cam video captures the entire incident. the first contact the police officer has is with this blond woman who says she called the police to the school. no damage to the woman's car, the police officer then clearly says this. >> i don't see a crime that has been committed. if there was damage i would give you the opportunity to place her under citizens arrest. >> reporter: the officer walks over to the other woman who had just dropped off her daughter at
school. she's upset after the confrontation with the other woman. >> he was honking and honking. she was like you can't drive right here. this is a one lane. >> reporter: the officer then asks for cook's name. >> what's your name ma'am? >> i'm not giving you my name. >> reporter: she gets on the phone to call her boyfriend. >> i'm going to give you two minutes. >> he gives her about 20 seconds. >> don't touch me. do not touch me. i'm pregnant. >> she's 8 months pregnant and never stops screaming. >> what are you doing? stop. >>. >> reporter: she is arrested. >> how did the officers treat you? >> like an animal like a monster. >> this is michelle cooks today. she says police charged her with resisting arrest but a a judge dismissed the charges. she gave birth to her daughter. she was healthy at birth.
her mother remains traumatized. >> he just looked at me and says she must be this way. you make me feel a way that i'm not. i work so hard to provide for my family. this is not an issue that i wanted. >> is this a window into the national discourse of police conduct conduct? >> i think so. this is how it is every day for some of us in the black community. this is how it is and the only difference is the technology that records it and the internet that projects it. >> reporter: cnn reached out to the police department. the spokesman saying that once the department became aware of the incident they initiated an internal investigation. the city also released a statement saying quote, it's apparent that ms. cook's actively resisted arrest. the police department continues to be proactive in training
officers in handling officers with emotional individuals. this incident is in no way racially motivated. cnn, los angeles. >> thank you for that. the big question was there any basis, any ground to arrest her in the first place? did she do anything wrong? cnn legal analyst mel robbins joins me next.
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before the break e we told you about two police officers in california now under fire accused of excessive force. the officers were dealing with a school parking lot dispute between two women. one of them african-american and a mother who refused to give police her name. she did tell them she was eight months pregnant. that didn't stop the police from wrestling her to the ground forcing her on to her stomach and arresting her. let's talk more about it with
mel robbins. when you watch this piece, you see one woman tell the officer she punched my car. the officer looks at the car and says, sorry, i don't see anything here. if i did, maybe there could be a citizens arrest but i don't see anything here. he goes up to the other woman and asks for her name. she won't give him her name and he arrests her. is there any crime, any ground for even arresting her? >> absolutely not, poppy. one of the other things that the officer said when he was talking to the white woman who works at the school is he said there has been no crime here. so when you take this in full context, you have an officer arriving at an elementary school not a drug deal an elementary school it's in the morning, it's in the middle of drop off, millions of us know this experience every single morning. you have a small dispute between who women that got a little
emotional. there's no crime and it's with that information that he walks over and approaches michelle cook. so at that moment, he has zero grounds to question her, zero grounds to detain her. he starts talking to her. she does give him her name. she tells him my name is michelle. then he goes further and asks for her full name and i.d. and that's when she asked to make a phone call. >> and in the state of california mel, you don't have to give police your name right? >> correct, now here's the thing. i think a lot of us grew up, i know i certainly did and give our kids the same advice if you're dealing with the police you're not going to gain anything by being argumentative. but what is so egregious in this situation is he says to her, yeah, you can make a a phone call. i'm going to give you two minutes and then she starts on the phone call. now look, she doesn't run, there's no crime that's been committed. she's not mouthing at the
officer. she's upset about the verbal altercation that happened with the woman in the parking lot. police walk into these situations every single day. their job is deescalate the situation and move on. instead, he reaches out and grabs her. what justification does he have and she's making a phone call to grab her? she then says let go of me which she has every right to do. he ultimately pushes her on the ground, a pregnant woman should be cuffed in front of her stomach, she shouldn't be pushed to the ground. we're all sitting here wondering, why the hell is e he arresting her in the first place. >> i just want to bring up that she's considering filing a lawsuit. you're an attorney. does she have a good case here? what could she sue this officer, the department for? >> she could sue them for violation of her constitutional rights. she could sue them also for pain
and suffering for the humiliation. thankfully her pregnancy went forward without any complications. she had a healthy baby girl. but one of the things that's very important as everybody watch this is videotape is that on one hand this is not a racial situation in terms of overt racism. this police officer did not pull into the parking lot, see a white woman a black woman and say to himself there's a black lady, i'm going to go harass her and arrest her. however, this is absolutely an example of what we call implicit bias. this officer probably doesn't even realize that he engaged in it. and here's how you know it happened. he treats the white woman, who is completely upset just like the black woman, totally differently than he treats the black woman. he doesn't ask the white woman for her name or i.d., but the second he approaches the black woman, he wants to know her
name her i.d. this all with the verbal acknowledgment that no crime has been committed. by doing that he is treating them with implicit bias and this is why training is so absolutely important. >> yeah and you said this video would be good training for officers talking about implicit bias. we wouldn't know anything if it weren't for those body cameras. mel robbins, thank you. coming up he played the russian ambassador in the latest season of "house of cards" but you won't believe what he does for a day job. his story, next. my name's louis, and i quit smoking with chantix. i had tried to do it in the past. i hadn't been successful. quitting smoking this time was different because i got a prescription for chantix. along with support chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. the fact that it reduced the urge to smoke helped me get that confidence that i could do it. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some people had seizures while taking
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a "house of cards" star is moonlights as a taxi driver. by day he's a fierce russian ambassador to the united nations on the hit show. a crucial part of his role is trading with devious first lady. but this actor is not exactly giving up his other gig. richard roth went for a a spin with the new york cab by who scored a key role on "house of cards." >> reporter: from the backseat he stars in the hit show "house of cards" as the russian u.n. ambassador. >> his mind is made up. >> reporter: but to survive,
alexander must star in the front seat driving a new york taxi. >> what is someone on a hit tv show doing driving a cab? >> i think this job is much better for actors than waiting on tables honestly. >> how many people have recognized you when they get in your cab from "house of cards". >> nobody has recognized. meso far. >> do you watch "house of cards"? >> i do. this cab driver is an actor on the show. >> did you watch season three. >> the russian thing, that was me. >> he's the ambassador. >> you were on "house of cards"? >> he has a famous scene in the bathroom playing the first lady of the united states. >> are you naked? >> no she's naked.
>> you're completely dressed. >> yes. >> it was the most challenging scene. >> in what way? >> as a gentleman, you would just walk out. >> this is april 13th, 2015. >> reporter: this being his first major role he takes diction lessons to expand his hiring possibilities. >> tip of the tongue. not that russian sound. >> reporter: i decided to see what happens when i introduce the ambassador actor to the real russian ambassador. >> i'd like to introduce you to the ambassador from russia. alex plays the russian ambassador to the u.n. on the show "house of cards." >> i'll tell you how the show perceives you. >> solid as a rock. >> fantastic. >> reporter: has your experiences as an ambassador taught you to be more diplomatic in the hectic streets of new york in your cab? >> it's easy for me to lose a temper when i see an idiot behind the wheel on the road.
it happens less and less. >> what is it you want the public to know about you? >> i'd like for everybody to know that i'm a solid and professional actor, whether i'm talented or a genius, let them decide. 5:00 eastern, i'm poppy harlow in new york. president obama's point man on the war on isis is holding meetings in iraq. he flew to baghdad for a sit down. are changes in the works in the strategy to try to defeat isis? this comes as clashes inside anbar province are nearing crucial stages. our senior international correspondent nick pai ton walton
walsh got rare access to the front lines, look. >> reporter: fighters say they have just taken the town ahead of us. but look just to the right of the black smoke here. it's not that simple. mines are at the road side past the tree line. the blasts could be them being cleared away by engineers or taking more lives. now heard in the distance two thuds, one very substantial. we're told there's a controlled explosion of mines in the area. they seem quite calm here. but it could also be one of the cars has hit one of the mines laid by isis. this is what they videoed of the fight close to a vital highway north. isis would just pushed out to its edges as we move closer it gets messier. we think a mortar lands nearby and stay in the car.
since we have been waiting on the road there have been three or four substantial explosions, which may well be their fighters still coming across booby traps laid in the area. it just shows you how incredibly hard it's going to be to retake land here for people to come back to live in. as we move out, shia fighters pour north up the road. this is what victory against isis looks like, little to saver. the impression you get from seeing that is we have chaotic sometimes the front lines can be. different militia groups working alongside each other, potentially disagreeing on territory. they say advancing substantially along the main highway routes here and pushing isis back claimed in the area you just saw that isis were encircled nearby but those are a sense of volatility as well. and i think you see in areas like that how long this conflict could go on for.
territory may change hands, but still isis for years many when the americans had a presence here in iraq, a warfare and sending bombs into areas they don't have a permanent presence it's hard to stop and very hard to see how peace and a sense of society getting back to normal can rain in the years ahead in iraq. nick paton walsh, cnn, baghdad. >> let's talk more about the u.s. strategy to fight isis with former operative bob baer. when we look at what general alan is doing ordering these grenade launchers, it seems like a lot of incremental steps. i wonder what you see in had this strategy? >> it's incremental. we really haven't quite gotten to the sunnis who live in anbar province. they don't go to baghdad. we can't visit there. the sunnis we do talk to have to be run through the shia government. i wouldn't call them exactly.
they don't have credibility with the other sunnis. and what best we can do now is give weapons to the government and hope and really we can't count on them using them properly but isis has a tactic where they take a truck and fill it with explosives and drive toward an iraqi position and rather than drive forward, they back it up and the cabin is armored. and they blow it up. the only way to stop these are with rockets and that's what we're doing now. and we'd have to give the army the weapons because right now, the army is being outmaneuvered on the field. isis is being run by former saddam hussein officers. they have been in combat well trained and great understanding of explosives.
>> in order to really defeat isis in anbar province you have to -- we saw them talking about the u.s. directing arming the sunnis directly distribute arms to them. i wonder if you think it's a good idea and how much risk you think there is in terms of them staying with the sunnis and not ending up in isis's hands. >> that's exactly it. the past the sunnis have turned around and sold the weapons to the islamic state or just abandoned them in place. the tribes that are fighting outside of the government aren't particularly capable. they are not large. they have been taking losses but they are not going to turn the battle. a lot of smart people on iraq say you need to set up a political framework in iraq which would be a very attractive to the sunnis. they need to see some sort of gain at the end of this. you can't give weapons and say
get rid of the islamic state. they want to be taken care of politically now. so if we could convince this government in baghdad to really force through an agreement and then turn on the islamic state with weapons is more likely to succeed. >> that's exactly what we'll talk about in the next segment. bob, thank you. i appreciate it. also tomorrow marks one year since this moment, do you remember this moment? when sergeant bowe bergdahl climbed aboard the american helicopter. he was released from five years of taliban captivity in afghanistan. in exchange the u.s. transferred five guantanamo inmates to qatar for a year. that deal expires on monday. u.s. and kutqatar officials are meeting today to try to decide what do they do with the taliban five now. >> under the agreement, the detainees have been monitored by the qatar government for one year and banned from traveling outside the country.
now the state department is leading separate negotiations with both the governments of qatar and afghanistan about what happens next. u.s. official says there are few options in play. the u.s. prefers they stay in qatar where they will be monitored. now total amount 70 among them. the other options could see them running to afghanistan either be released or monitored by the government. now the qatarys say they will not expand the restrictions on the five nor will they send them home to afghanistan if they don't want to leave qatar. so none of these are great options. these are five pretty high ranking taliban officials. one is trying to communicate with militants back home since arriving in qatar, raising questions about whether the lives of afghans and u.s. soldiers in afghanistan would be at risk. republican lawmakers were upset with the deal in the first place. now they are calling on the obama administration to make
sure these five are not set free. poppy? >> turning to the flood ravaged state of texas. flash floods are in effect until 7:00 local time tonight in north central texas. this is video from dallas. enough rain has fallen in texas this month alone to cover the entire state with 8 inches of water water. federal aid is on its way. 22 people have died in texas so far this spring as a result of the severe weather there. it's a poignant day, a sad day for the family of natalie holloway. ten years to the day since she vanished on vacation in aruba. a man is coming forward saying he's the last person to have seen her alive and he knows where she is buried. what he told cnn, next.
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today marks ten years since natalie holloway disappeared during a high school trip to aruba. ed questions over what happened to her are once again back in the headlines. that's because a man now says he saw her right before she died. he claims to know where her body is buried. martin savage spoke extensively with him and he joins us live from aruba. what did he tell you? i know he's been saying this to investigators for a long time. they just haven't been doing anything. >> reporter: right, they haven't really followed up on it until now, ten years later. and the keyword is what you used there in the introduction which is buried. for the most part investigators and the family have believed that whatever happened she ended up in the ocean, her body did.
this person is saying no it didn't happen that way at all. he knows this because he was doing something illegal at a construction site in 2005, may 30th when he saw two people. the young man and young woman later identified the man as vanter sloot.vant der sloot. a few minutes later he saw the young man emerge holding the young lady and she appeared to be dead. this is what he told us. >> the foundation he pulled her by the ankles inside the crawl space. stayed inside for a minute or something and came out and closed the gap. >> reporter: keep in mind this was a construction site in 2005. fast forward to now and you have a 12-story marriott vacation property there and this is where this witness is now saying deep
down in the foundation is where natalie holloway's body was buried. the authorities, though, they still don't buy it. >> and they are still not doing any sort of excavation to try to find out if that's true or not. i understand that this man who says he's a witness actually called holloway's father directly at one point? >> reporter: he did. that was back in 2008. he had left aruba at that point. he thought that he wasn't having any luck with the authorities, so he thought one father would go to another father. that's what he did. the problem is he was so invested emotionally and mentally that the idea his daughter was in the water when a man says you know what, she's burry buried i know where she is. he wasn't in a mind set to accept that is a and admits he blew the witness off. he put him down as a cook. >> he still wants answers and
wanted authorities to do everything they can ten years ago today that natalie holloway disappeared. martin savage, thank you so much. instead of fighting for iraq should we stand aside and let iraq break apart? we're going to talk about what some experts say is the answer to ending a brutal war there that is still rage ago cross the country. we'll take a look at both scenarios, next. headache? motrin helps you be an unstoppable, let's-rock-this-concert- like-it's-1999 kind of mom. back pain? motrin helps you be the side-planking keeping-up-with- your-girlfriend- even-though-you'll-feel-it- later kind of woman you are. body pain? motrin helps you be an unstoppable, i-can-totally-do-this- all-in-one-trip kind of woman. when pain tries to
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america's point man on countering isis is pledging more support to iraq. general john alan met with leaders today after a tough week of losses in anbar province that he calls frustrating. he offered to send 2,000 antitank degree maid launchers snigs to continuing those airstrikes. one aspect that's not helping iraq at all is the political fighting within iraq between the different factions. it's led some experts to wonder if breaking up iraq might be the answer to preserving it. >> iraqi is a little bit bigger than the state of california. many experts believe it's split up amongst three distinct factions. first you have the kurds, they make up 17% of the country. arab sunni, 20%. >> it looks like we lost our
feed there. cnn security analysts bob baer just pinned an article on this. we were talking earlier about the issue with iraq. it's not just about defeating isis. it's not just about getting ramadi back. it's about bringing the country politically together and the hope of this administration is that having the new president in iraq having new leadership there is part of the solution. but other experts say you've got to break it up because they are not going to come together. what's your take? >> i think the country has broken up. you've got the sunni, the kurds have their own state. they have their own oil income. the head of the kurdish area was in washington saying if we don't get paid more money from baghdad, we're breaking off completely and then you have the
shia south and most of baghdad. the hard part would be drawing up the map. the sunnis have showed me they would like to divide the oil income, whatever that is they would make baghdad an open city and on and on. they are quite determined they are not coming back. they are willing to lose ramadi. they are willing to lose mosul, but they want to be a separate state. not to confuse anyone the syrians are heading that way too. >> so bob, when you talk about drawing lines and breaking up the country, who ultimately would even decide that, sign off on that? how does that work politically? >> you'd have to get an international body. we don't have the credibility to go in and do it. the iranians don't. you have to get the u.n., you have to get u.n. mandate to divide it up and take a look at this. it would be enormously
complicated, there's mixed populations that would have to be divided. people could choose. but the alternative is this continuous because the sunnis look at the government in baghdad, even the moderate sunnis are illegitimate. least looked as a clone. and that's why we're at this impass. it may serve our interests to push this fiction of iraq until 2016 but it doesn't serve the iraqis interest. >> that's what's most important the people living there and the citizens caught in the middle of all of this. it's important to talk about what precedent this would set for syria. what would it mean? >> you divide up syria as well. you look at the sunni east
these are shia muslims would be in the mownuntains along the coast. a lot of christians would move there too. last weekend i talked to someone close to bashar al assad and he said the unthinkable is they are going to divide that country up. a year ago they wouldn't consider it but now even they say their best defense is simply to e see the eastern part of the country to the sunnis. i should add that i'm hearing more rationality out of these other fundamentalists groups saying we can't use syria as a platform to attack the west. let's establish a sunni islamic state and that's all we want. you can't trust them, but in a sense it's encouraging. >> bob baer fascinating discussion to have thank you so much. for all of you watching you can read bob's column about this. that's right at cnn.com. the senate is running out of
time to extend key parts of the patriot act. we're talking about a midnight dead line tomorrow night. but one senator says he is not going to let that happen. is rand paul playing politics with the tools the nsa says it needs to keep the u.s. safe or is he making the point he's been arguing for quite a long time? but first, get ready for a taste of nostalgia. a new episode of "parts unknown" at 9:00 p.m. tomorrow night. here's a look. >> they drive up the turnpike. they don't turn off. that's new jersey. >> i think it's beautiful. northern new jersey is the embroidery capital of the world apparently. i don't know where that's happening. >> i swear to god. >> for all of the marvelous things about new jersey, will
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days of presidential hopeful rand paul. here's athena jones. >> reporter: rand paul at odds with key members of his own party. doubling down on his opposition to government surveillance. tools that are vital to fighting terrorism. >> the intent was to protect our privacy. >> reporter: paul led the charge geps the mass collection of phone data. he took to the senate floor to block attempts to extend the program beyond its expiration. that prompted an eye roll from one fellow republican. >> i object. >> objection is heard. >> our forefathers would be a gast. >> reporter: he's also blaming some in his party for the rise of isis. >> isis exist asks grew stronger because of the hawks in our party who gave arms that were snatched up by isis. >> reporter: comments drawing
fire from his fellow presidential hopefuls. >> when it comes to foreign policy his statements yesterday and some of his previous statements were unsuitable. >> he's just wrong on this one. >> i would expect to hear that from bernie sanders. not for someone running for the republican nomination. >> reporter: he vows to keep blocking the nsa programs sending snarky tweets to president obama. in 2006 you said we should defend privacy of americans so you were for privacy before you were against it? and calling on his supporters to stand with rand and throw in some cash. his campaign even selling this filibuster starter back with a t-shirt that reads the nsa knows i bought this rand paul t-shirt. still paul's opponents say he's wrong on the nsa. >> there's nobody engaging in this national conversation other than me who has used these tools. i have used them for seven years as a prosecutor. what they talk about is
theoretical. what i talk about is actual. >> athena jones, washington. it has been quite a week for senator rand paul. he warned today that he will quote, force the expiration of the nsa illegal spy program. he plans to do that on the senate floor tomorrow night when congress meets for a rare session to try to hash this out before it expires. let's talk about it with mark lamont hill and ben ferguson. ben, let's begin with you. take a look at this statement. this is part of what harry reid said today. quote, if senator mcconnell cannot convince senator paul to back off his filibuster threat then mitch mcconnell will have no one to blame but himself for allowing security tools to expire on his watch. is he right? >> i don't know if i would necessarily blame him for this. rand paul is a guy that has been about this issue and been very consistent. if there's anything to admire about him is he doesn't flip-flop on these type of
issues, even when he's taking the heat. he doesn't make deals. i'm sure he could be in a bigger position in the senate if he was willing to play with others. but the same time, i do think this is a little bit extreme from him to claim that others help the rise of isis. i think this is going to end up being one of those days and issues that may hurt his real chances at the white house more than any other issue because, yeah he may have a core base that loves him for this but ultimately i think the american people are going to side i don't trust him on national security because of what he did on this issue. >> he wrote an op-ed saying i'm not an isolationist. we will be strong on foreign policy when we need to be. at the same time, he's going to call it like it is, how he sees it playing out. but mark "the wall street journal" hated that he said that. hi wrote republicans who begin their campaigns assailing other republicans rarely succeed.
ronald reagan's 11th commandment was thousand shalt not criticism another republican. what do you make of this strategy? >> first of all, ronald reagan said that but he was winning at the time. everybody says that when they are winning. i disagree with ben's assertion that this isn't a reflection of mcconnell. some rogue senator were saying something they would say it's a question of leadership. now everyone is an individualist when it happens on the republican side of the aisle. at the same time i agree. rand paul should be applauded for his principle. too often in the congress people concede their values for what's politically expedient. especially when running for president. how many times have we seen hillary clinton or chris christie change positions on something significant because they want to be president. that's troublesome. i do think it's problematic for people to say that rand paul somehow is some promiezing american national security.
it's also problematic for rand paul to say anyone who disagrees with him is helping isis. it doesn't get us anywhere. >> rand paul telling a crowd on chicago's south side this week that he favors reclassifying nonviolent felonies as misdemeanors, granting second chances for felons to regain the right to vote. does that sound like a republican presidential candidate to you? is that a good strategy? >> no and that's part of his strategy which is weird to me. he doesn't want to look or be like anyone else in this field. he feels like that is what is going to make him stand out. >> why is that weird? >> it's weird because you can have these ideas, but at some point when you're an elected official you have to look at the reality. whether it be dealing with isis or al qaeda or dealing with drugs and offenses that are felonies right now, he sit there is and he's like i will never change on any of these issues when sometimes i got to wonder
does he really believe this or is it more about i'm this mr. independent and i will never change who i am and i think it's going to do him in in this campaign, i really do. >> i think it's kind of tough to applaud him on the one hand for being steadfast and not compromising in his opinion. i think on some level we have to accept this is who he is. what makes him look bizarre is he's one of the few politicians actually being honest. he's say whag he believes and trying to execute it. >> i'm not so sure. >> guys i got to leave it there. a quick break. we'll be back in a moment to talk about the race for the republican presidential nomination. so far it has been nasty. when a new candidate joined the democratic side how did that go down? will it stay polite? we'll talk about it, next. ortho bug b gon gives you season-long control of all these types of bugs. spectracide gives you season-long control...
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this and not be tested and not have to answer as many questions. if these candidates are smart, they are going to go after her every single day to force her to engage them as legitimate candidates for the white house. i think this is going to be very interesting to see how it plays out. you're dealing with someone who is being very much underestimated. former governors they know how to play ball. this will be something that will be fun to watch. >> i do think it hasn't been all cordial because you heard in his announcement speech today, mark he said, look you can't pass the presidency on from family to family. he came at hillary clinton on wall street. he talked about how wall street really likes hillary clinton. he talked about sort of the income gap. it seems like he tried to take her on in that way. >> i think that having other candidates in a primary is important. i didn't want to see a coronation for hillary clinton at all. except the most staunch hillary
supporters. i think sanders raises interesting questions. probably not one who will win, but a strong candidate. minus his policies on the middle east. bernie is somebody dragging hillary into the conversation we wanted her to have. still makes her look clean because he doesn't win. with o'malley he's a governor, he has executive experience, he can raise domestic policy issues. he can raise issues that can concern people about hillary clinton that won't stop her from winning the primary, but will drag into the general and make people say this is a person we want to be president. >> you have two-on-one. two campaigns that are really going to be working side by side without shaking hands to go after hillary clinton to try to weaken her as a candidate because ultimately neither of them are going to be successful unless they can both land. knockout punches on policy against hillary clinton. and i think it will be
interesting to see where they attack her and how. but i promise you this. both of their campaigns will be willing to team up, whether it be on money or even issues like benghazi because right now neither of them have a shot at this unless they weaken her on policy issues. i think she's going to have to engage them. >> here's how i think bernie sanders, who you brought up really could change the game. even if he doesn't have the name recognition, even if he does not have the polling numbers, what he does have is that growing course of people talking about income inequality. what he does have is the ability to pull her further to the left. i wonder how you think that affects her appeal in a potential general election? >> see, i don't think you get pulled to the left if people read the candidate as legitimate. mitt romney didn't get pulled to the right because of ron paul. barack obama didn't get pulled to the left because of al sharpton. it doesn't mean you don't have
to have the conversations. when it gets to nuts and bolts public policy, i don't think a critique of hillary clinton's policy going to be compelling because sanders raises it. i love bernie sabders. he's right on this issue. i just don't think the public responds to him. >> and here's one other thing. historical anecdote. remember when hillary clinton was in this exact same situation when she ran last time and there was this senator that wasn't very well known but gave a great speech once named barack obama. she's been in this situation before and didn't do very well when it came down to the end game. so if i'm her campaign right now, i'm very concerned about the people that are jumping in because last time when she was overwhelmingly in the lead she couldn't get it done and she got beat up. >> guys, good conversation as always thanks. >> thank you. coming up next there's one
issue candidates cannot stop talking about on the campaign trail. it is your money. the growing income gap and why some people make so much more than others. we'll talk about it next. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.
opportunity to become a land of inequality. main street struggles while wall street soars. tell me how it is. tell me how it is that not a single wall street ceo was convicted of a crime related to the 2008 economic meltdown. not a single one. >> the wage gap in had this country, democratic presidential candidates like martin o'malley who you just heard from and bernie sanders who launched his own presidential bid are both talking a lot about it. here's what bernie sanders said. >> we now have more wealth inequality than any other major country on earth and the gap between the very rich and everyone else is growing wider and wider. the issue of wealth and income inequality is the great moral issue of our time.
it is a great economic issue of our time. it is the great political issue of our time and we will address it. time. and we will address it. >> sanders is pushing for a $15 an hour federal minimum wage. republicans are also talking about the wealth gap. presidential candidate senator marco rubio argues the focus should not be so much on the wage gap but rather rather on long-term job potential. earlier in the year he said the issue is not whether the cashier at burger king makes less than the ceo. the issue is whether that cashier gets stuck being a cash rear 5, 10 15 or 20 years. in kansas city these are some of the photos on display focusing on fast food workers. the workers themselves took the photos. they are calling for a $15 an hour minimum wage. warren buffett, though says that is not the answer.
listen. >> now, i'd like to see everybody make $20 an hour at minimum. but i know if you increase it to $20 an hour you'd have millions of people unemployed. >> that's the debate. jobs and wages. let's get a reality check on the pros and cons of a $15 minimum wage. our cnn money senior writer joins us. tammy you're breakgreat at breaking this down. there's a lot of bickering around this. what are the pros what are the cons about a $15 an hour minimum wage? >> right, poppy. this is an age-old argument. you've got both sides, the people on the pro side saying that you need to raise the minimum wage. it will give people a base. right now many people making minimum wage are in poverty. if raise it to again$15 an hour they end up making about $10,000 above poverty if they work full time. that's one important thing. also there are a lot of people
making minimum wage who are in their 30s. it's no longer a job for teenage kid whoz are looking for high school or after-school jobs. so they're supporting their families on this low minimum wage. so they also one of the important things is that many studies show that if you give more money to lower income people, they plow it back into the economy. those are all the pros. but on the con side you have people saying as war even buffet said, that people could end up losing their job. oakland raised its minimum wage to $12.25 and an anti-increase group did a study there and it showed that 47% of businesses said they were either going to lay people off or reduce their hours. and another 47% said that they were going to have to raise their prices on customers. and some even said that they might relocate outside of oakland. so you've got to weigh those two
things. >> you do. you do. and, look los angeles just voted, the city council, to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020. this includes restaurant workers. this is across the board, and this is happening. and this is such an important debate for so many americans right now. cnn money is launching an american opportunity page on monday. why are you guys doing it and what can we expect from this? >> well, as bernie sandsers said this is one of the top important topics of our time. you're going to hear all of the candidates for the next 18 months talking about it. so we felt it was really important for us to bring -- we've been doing great coverage on this topic for several years, and they felt it was important to bring it all into one place. so it if you want to know about this topic, come to our american opportunities page at cnn money. you know, the problem is as marco rubio said some people who say that it's not so much
you know what social well fare programs or raising the minimum wage but it's an issue of opportunity. the american dream has always been no matter where you are on the ladder you can climb up the ladder. if you work hard. and a lot of people don't believe that's true anymore, and that's a fundamental breakdown in our society. >> yeah. president obama calling it recently the great sorting. i think the great question is what is the right answer. how do you ma'am miez employment while paying people a living wage and not lose the jobs to technology or other countries. tammy, thank you so much. we'll look out for it american opportunity on cnn money starting monday morning. as we said it will document the struggles and the successes of have trying to make it in america. more news right after the break. thank you. no, nancy, thank you. kibbles 'n bits. because every bit matters. listen up... i'm reworking the menu. veggies you're cool... mayo, corn dogs... you are so out of here! ahh...
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art has a power to let children discover who they are every time to create. when i moved to new york city i noticed that art education was lacking. i decided, we need to be the ones to put this in the hands of kids. we opened art classes in public libraries that are near the schools that need it most. you look like you're on a roll. >> i'm drawing. >> our goal is not to create artists. our goal is to let kids express themselves. i use art as an escape. i do look forward to coming here every week. on most occasions it's fun.
>> see where you can take it. >> after we bring art into their lives they become more confident. the changes are quite remarkable. >> vote for the cnn hero of the year at cnn here rows.com. i'm poppy harlow. thanks so much for being with me. smerconish is next. i'm michael smerconish. welcome to the program. he was one of the most powerful men in washington and now explosive new allegations against former house speaker deny's hastert. cnn is told he was paying a will former male student in order to keep quiet about allegations of sexual misconduct when hastert was a teacher and a wrestling coach in illinois. the student was underage at the time and now hastert is facing felony charges for allegedly lying to the fbi about the more than $3 million that he paid the man in apparent hush money. there are so many questions