tv Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield CNN June 16, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PDT
are being evacuated from the area, being sent home. more information is expected. >> barbara starr thank you so much. the news, a credible threat against naval installations in philadelphia. they have been evacuated for now. thanks, barbara. >> breaking news there. we'll continue to follow the breaking news of donald trump announcing his candidacy for president. a lot going on at this hour. thanks for joining us. >> "legal view with ashleigh banfield" starts right now. hello, everyone, and welcome to "legal view," i'm ashleigh banfield. the manhunt has dominated the headline for days and just when you thought the new york prison break story couldn't get any more salacious, it has. new details about the relationship between prison tailor and the two convicted killer, murderers. a source with detailed knowledge of the investigation says joyce mitchell was, indeed, having a sexual relationship with richard
matt and before that she was investigated for having an inappropriate relationship with david sweat. they're the two who are on the run which leads us to this. the same source who told us matt and sweat had a plan to kill mitchell's husband who worked in the same tailoring block as his wife. we don't know how much mitchell actually knew about this plan but we know. mitchell, in her stripes, is being held at the clinton county jail in a 6 x 9 cell with round-the-clock supervision. an officer is sitting in the doorway of her cell documenting what she is doing every 30 minutes. in the meantime, the search for matt and sweat has gone cold since last week. they could be long gone, maybe even in mexico by now. that's the word from officials on the hunt. alexandra field is in west plattsburgh, new york, where the hunt has been focused. why do they feel the hunt has
gone cold? is there any hope that they're going to find these two murderers? >> i don't think anyone here would concede they have lost hope about finding these two convicted killers but there is the reality of the situation which is that law enforcement officials have been saying they have not seen a clear sign to indicate that they are in the immediate area that is being searched since some time last week when the bloodhounds hit on that scent. whether the rap wrapper was found. so you have people who are exercising every resource that they have, deploying every resource they have to hunt for these two men but there is the reality and there is the realization that is surfacing among some of the searchers which is to say that, yes, it's possible they could be in this area where they have focus bud it's possible they could be somewhere else. joyce mitchell is the seamstress behind bars charged with help
helping the two men. does she have more information well, it's possible she doesn't. here's what the clinton county sheriff has to say. >> i don't think she was plan "a." there's people that said she didn't show up and got cold feet. they probably went to a plan "b." i think she was plan "b." i think -- they didn't put this much time and effort into such an elaborate escape and take so long to plot this together without getting some assistance and having a good solid plan for once they did get to freedom. >> this morning joyce mitchell had her first visitor at the clinton county jail, her husband lyle mitchell. i'm told lyle mitchell spent an hour with his wife, that was non-contact visit, separated by a glass wall but this was a private conversation not monitored. the sheriff says the observation was that she was comforted and hi seemed to be supportive of his wife. >> our al and have field in the
rain for chief justice can't be good if those prisoners are up there maybe better for those on the hunt for them. alexandra field, thank you while joyce mitchell is sitting now behind bars in the same place those two murderers were. the authorities are themselves going door to door in dan mora new york, looking for those two convicted murderers who may likely have manipulated her into helping them. our affiliate, twc news binghamton spoke with david sweat's family. his family, his mother, says that his aggressive behavior started by age nine and by the time he was a teenager they lost contact they kept in touch through letters but she told twc news she had no idea he planned to escape. >> he never said nothing about taking off or anything and then all of a sudden for the last two months he quit writing. i've been through a lot with
him. and it wasn't good. and that's why i'm the way i am because of him. >> again, that interview with david sweat's mother, i want to bring in gary cornelius, the ar thor of "the art of the con, avoiding offend erma nip lags." he's a retired corrections officer with nearly three decades of experience. gary, thank you so much for this. no one is 100% certain this woman is a victim. she certainly did do something for people, most people wouldn't help. i want to get your take on it. with all of your background, certainly inmate in manipulation. >> yes, thanks for having me on. no one is immune from inmate manipulation. you can go into a prison or jail and say "i'm too smart for them, it will never happen to me" but the things we hear, we hear they
have 24/207 thi7 to think abouto fool people. that's true. they have nothing but time to plot these things. that is true. i read one account where this relationship with one of the inmates with mrs. mitchell could have started two years ago in 2013. and she made the choice -- allegedly made the choice to help them as she is charged with. and if convicted she has to deal with the consequences of her action. veterans, what we call rookie, newbie, civilian, sworn staff, no one is immune to the inmate manipulator. >> so gary, i understand where you're coming from, the notion that inmates can be manipulative and certainly i believe mr. matt was extremely manipulative, especially with women as some witnesses have attested. but the murder plot that has now
come to light, this just goes beyond all understanding of your science, how someone could be manipulated beyond letting them out but going on to destroy her life she knows and murdering her husband. >> well, good question and the problem is when you fall victim to an inmate manipulator, con man, whatever, your world has changed. you are not in your world anymore outside the prison walls where things are on a moral plane, you dough the right thing, you pay your bills, you're faithful to your family and so forth. you are in the inmate's world and when you go into the inmate's world, anything can happen. one of the things i've learned from 27 years of working in a jail with inmates is nothing surprises me. nothing with inmates. when you enter their world, they can change their plans. they can decide she's not useful
or she might stougt them that she's better off with them than her family and who knows where that will go. >> can i ask you about the epiphany she says according to authorities who've spoken with cnn, the epiphany she said she had, which was "i could don't this to my family." ultimately that notion that that she perhaps might not has been as trustworthy as they would have wanted, do you believe without authorities when they say they without question had a plan "b" given the woman they were working with? >> it's possible and the plan "b" is possible. like i said, nothing surprises you when you're working with inmates. you walk home from your shift at the jail and you're going, wow. it's possible. i'm following the news reports on it as you are. but the epiphany she had where she said "i could not hurt my family" reportedly she said "i could not hurt my family," yeah,
there have been cases and when i teach in service i discuss cases where staff have been manipulated by inmates and then they wake up and go, whoa, i'm in this hole so deep i better start trying to find a way out of it. that might have been the case with her. she thought of the damage to her family, her husband and her son, the community where she lives, the people she worked with and she might have said, "whoa, i can't go on with this and i bet dore the right thing now." >> has a lot of people shaking their heads and scratching their heads at the same time. good of you to talk to us. thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up next, that naacp leader who was outed as white has a lot of explaining to do and she is finally talking. but guess who else is talking? her parents. we've got the interview with them coming up. them coming up. when were you first considered a family? when you fell in love? when you got married? when you had kids?
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rachel dolezal, the woman who resigned as the naacp leader after she was exposed as a white woman is now breaking her silence. this morning, dolezal telling nbc's matt lauer "i identify as black." >> are you an african-american woman? >> i identify as black. >> you identify as black. let me put a picture up of you in your early 20s, though. when you see that picture, is this an african-american woman or is that a caucasian woman? >> that's not in my early 20s. >> that's a little younger, i guess. >> 16 in that picture. >> is she a caucasian woman or an african-american woman? >> i would say that visibly she would be identified as white but people who see her. >> but at the time were you
identifying yourself as african-american? >> in that picture, during this time, no. >> your parents were asked this question this week and they didn't have any trouble answering it. here's what they said. "she's clearly our birth daughter and we're clearly caucasian, that's just a fact. "your father went on to say "she's a talented woman doing work she believes in, why can't she do that as a caucasian woman, which is what she is." how do you answer that question? >> um, well, first of all, i really don't see why they're in such a rush to whitewash some of the work i have that done and who i am and how i've identified and this goes back to a very early age with my self-identify kwags the black experience. as a very young child. >> when did it start. >> i would say about five years old. >> you began identifying yourself as african-american? >> i was drying self-portraits with the brown crayon instead of
the peach crayon and black curly hair and -- yeah, that was how i was portraying myself. >> that was rachel dolezal this morning and this afternoon this is rachel's parent, larry and ruth ann joining me live now from troy, montana. thank you so much mr. and mrs. dolezal. i want to ask you about that last point that rachel made with matt lauer that she began identifying as black as early as five years drawing whers a brown crayon instead of a pink crayon. do you have any memories of that? >> no, we do not. >> anything even slightly that might indicate she felt different back when she was, say, five, six, seven in her very young age? >> rachel was like we were, interested in ethnicity and diversity and we had many friends in our circles that were of different ethnicities, but she did not ever refer to
herself or draw pictures or anything that indicated she thought of herself as black. >> had she had many experiences other than friends of yours? i know you've said you made travels as a family to african countries. had she done that in her early years? for instance the years she was referring to in the interview. >> no. >> no. rachel was never in africa with us. >> so there any explanation that you can think of -- i'm assuming having watched her appearance this morning on the "today" show, is there any explanation you can give to her answers she gave to matt lauer? >> she is still dodging the question about acknowledging who she is in reality. >> how would you respond if i were to suggest that i'm now identifying as an african-american man? i am now a black man because i adopted four african-american children?
>> well, it's all very perplexing, i think, so many many of us and i would think it would be the most perplexing to the people who had been closest to her at one time of life, you. and i just wonder how you felt watching that interview this morning. >> it was disturbing because the false statements continue. and as much as we're concerned with rachel's identity issues, we are also concerned with her integrity issues. >> so she claims that you're trying to -- i'll just quote her. "i don't see why they --" meaning her parents, you, "are in such a rush to whitewash some of the work i've done and who i am and how i have identified." do you see yourselves as having somehow thwarted what she's doing and who she feels she is? >> no. we were contacted about a week ago by the coeur d'alene press
asking if we could verify rachel's ethnicity and we responded "well, we can tell you that we are her birth parents and that her ethnicity background is european descent, caucasian, primarily czech and german." >> so can i ask you. did you folks hear any sort of apology this is morning from rachel when she was speaking to matt lauer? apologies for the lies that she's told? because frankly she has lied. it's not just misrepresenting. it's not just correcting the record when those assumed she was either biracial or african-american or black. it was blatant lies. >> that's exactly how we see it, unfortunately. >> and, yes, we hope that she will come to terms with truth and reality and she will make an apology.
>> have you had any issues with your other children, her four younger, much younger, black siblings? because they also have gone public and they have varying views of what's going on. have you as a family come to terms with being in the spotlight like this? and honestly having her as a national punch line, it seems? >> well, our intention has never been to harm rachel. all we have done was to respond to the press when they initiated questions. >> yes. and i guess we could ask you, how would you respond if you received similar questions? would you tell the truth? would you support the lies? would you hang up or say "no comment"? >> well, i can't imagine the position that you're in. i think it's uncomfortable for a lot of people and i'm sure it's terribly uncomfortable for you as well. i appreciate you taking the time to speak with us today. >> thank you very much. >> lawrence and ruth ann
dolezal, the parents of rachel dolezal speaking out today live from troy, montana. ms. dolezal's explanation about her race put the controversy perhaps in even a more complicated state. were they answers that people expected? did it confuse people further? we're going to get some answers to that in a moment. what do a nascar® driver... a comedian... and a professional golfer have in common? we talked to our doctors about treatment with xarelto®. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® has also been proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. i tried warfarin before, but the blood testing routine and dietary restrictions had me off my game. not this time. not with xarelto®. i'll have another arnold palmer. make mine a kevin nealon. really, brian? hey, safety first. like all blood thinners, don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk
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pretty serious, too, going up to threat level charlie second-highest level. all clear in philadelphia. that the official word now. after resigning, spokane's former naacp leader rachel dolezal is breaking her silence and confronting allegations on nbc's "today show" that she has been pretending to be african-american and joining me is culture critic and writer mikaila davis as long as writer charles blow. did you get the answers that you were looking for? did you get any resolution? is there more clarity? >> no more clarity. no more understanding. no more -- except for -- no i think i understand that it's a little bit more delusional than i thought, right? the fact that she didn't address her parents. the fact that she didn't address all the pain and confusion that she has caused black make to respond this. i think her not addressing the howard university lawsuit as a
white woman directly was disturbing. i think she has more -- she's left us with more questions and not really prepared. i felt duped again by her coming out and not giving us anything and not really answering anything directly. it's more disturbing. >> did anyone expect an apology today? >> i did. i totally -- >> did you really? >> i totally did. she's had days to watch -- we just watched her parents. they look tired, they look in pain. >> perplexed still. >> perplexed. her brother saying that, you know, they're -- basically come home, get help, get healed. the stories about her this is a tepee and -- >> we had an opposite reaction. and i don't think it's because you're black and i'm white, i think it's because we see things different ways, perhaps. but i saw a woman who is very uncomfortable with who she was and needed something else to fulfill her life. granted, she took it and she lied about it, but ultimately i did feel for her as someone who just identifies and is more
comfortable -- >> and that may be true she may, in fact, identify and feel more comfortable in the cultural construct of blackness, right? but where you -- the sympathy falls short that it is still an exercise in privilege. >> absolutely. >> because in america we have traditionally and historically defined whiteness incredibly narrow in order to protect it from delusion. like we didn't want to dilute it. so therefore the black experience in america is that we have been the kind of collecting pool for everybody who was not 100% white. if your lineage had any blackness in it whatsoever -- >> any drop. the one drop rule. >> then you were considered black. and that was not just kind of a cultural construct, that was enforced by laws, that was enforced by the police, that was enforced by court, including the supreme court. and therefore a person like rachel has the privilege to
present and perform blackness because we are conditioned in america to accept those presentations. however, a person who looks like me, no matter how much lightening cream i might use, no matter if i grew this hair out and straightened it, if i did what sammy sosa has done, sammy sosa will never be able to fully present as a white person. and because it doesn't flow both ways, there is a privilege in the ability to even perform blackness in this way. >> the outrage -- there is so much outrage. every op-ed is filled with this topic of one woman's story. is the outrage commensurate with the crime? >> well, that one woman's story is part of the outrage. that one delusional woman has gotten this much attention, has caused this -- we're actually entertaining transracial outside of the adoptive space where it's used as a thing. no case study, no science,
nothing to support it. there's not decades of research like with transgender. particularly transgender black women. as i said earlier, this is white privilege at a spectacular level. this could not happen the other way around. and that she would shape shift, she was white at howard, she was white in that picture, she was black at five, she's black now. only she could get away with that. that wouldn't happen in reverse. our history matters. >> and the only people who can do it is people who have kind of passing what used to be common in the black community and those people who have a kind of legitimate claim to it because they had one white parent, one black parent. but even in those cases, the president has one black parent and one white parent but he chose to identify as black. if he said i identify as white person, who would believe that? so the idea that -- it just doesn't work both ways. and i think the idea that someone would try to present it and then be fraudulent about the back story and create an entire
back story around this fraudulence is, i think, what raises people's ire. >> i think the answer is we don't have any more answer today. i have to leave it there. i could go the whole show just on this topic because i remain as perplexed maybe if not more about what happened. michaela, charles, always nice to see you. thank you. coming up next, he has i guess you could say a lot of money. that's an understatement. he's got so much money, he's got a lot of recognition and he just became the 12th presidential candidate for the republican party. you know his name, he's a reality tv star for crying out loud, of course you know who he is. donald trump jumps into the race. is it typical donald trump fashion or is it hilarity run amuck? i have type 2 diabetes. i started with pills. and now i take a long-acting insulin at night. i take mine in the morning. i was trying to eat right, stay active. but i wasn't reaching my a1c goal anymore. man: my doctor says diabetes changes over time. it gets harder to control blood sugar spikes
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ladies and gentlemen, i am officially running -- [ cheers and applause ] for president of the united states. >> with that, the list of presidential wannabes is a little bit long they are morning. as you just heard him say it, from the horse's mouth, donald trump announcing last hour he's in the horse race, the 2016 race. he spoke of improving benefits for veterans, his opposition to the current trade bill, and crushing the terror group isis. he also called politicians idiots and he had this to say about mexican migration. >> when mexico sends its people,
they're not sending their best. they're not sending you. they're not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems. and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists and some, i assume, are good people. but i speak to border guards and they tell us what we're getting and it only makes sense. >> joe johns digesting these words for the second time because he was live with me now. i don't know where to begin. that went on and on and on, typical trump fashion. he never knows when to make the early exist. but maybe this sums up the entire announcement and how it will be digested by so many in the press, at least. he said at the beginning of his statement "when did we ever beat japan?" >> and there was that one time, right. >> there was that one small important time. but these are the kinds of
things that i wonder are going to plague him and ultimately make him a laughing stock. you cannot make statements like that if you're going to be the president of the united states. >> donald trump is -- if he's anything, he's entertaining and that is why a lot of people are excited about him getting into the race. because he's entertaining. because he'll add a little bit of spark there. but yes, this was loud, it was bombastic, it was donald trump and he went on and on and on and on and i think to your point one of his biggest problems is if he's ever going to be viewed as a serious candidate is his approval numbers which are just awful. and something like 57% of respondents -- >> disapproval? does that wane with the show "the apprentice" and when it's at its nadir? he's a reality television star for a lot of people.
>> the difficulty for donald trump is that this is a guy who is a known commodity. he has very, very, very high numbers of recognition out there. everybody knows donald trump so he'll have to fight against that. you ask people who work with him and who are going to push for this campaign that he's finally decided to do after two decades. they say it's all just a factor of he needs to get in the race. once he gets in the race people will start knowing donald trump and his numbers will come up. it is true that i mean you look at the polls he's right on the edge of being one of the top ten. so there's a chance he could end up in the debates. >> and certainly i think the other republican candidates probably very r enjoying the fact that they will look less crazy with comments like "when did we ever beat japan at anything?" and. >> oh and building a great wall along the southern border and making mexico pay for it.
>> i think that might be a tall order. by the way, i wanted to be a fly in the wall on "the daily show" writer's room because they have sprained wrists. joe johns, that was nice to see you in new york. don't just let bit donald trump that brings you here. >> entertaining guy, what can i say? >> coming up next, we'll take you down south because the already waterlogged texas is getting swamped again. look at the live shot there. ktrk filing this. it is awful. they're feeling the force of a tropical storm named bill. we'll take you there live. you're finally here. long way from the sandlot. first game in the majors? you don't know "aarp". because this family is enjoying a cross-country baseball stadium trip they planned online at aarp travel. it's where your journey begins with inspiration, planning, booking, and hot travel tips from real pros. if you don't think seize the trip when you think aarp, then you don't know "aarp". find more surprising possibilities and get to know us
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breaking news out of texas. it is all about tropical storm bill right now, the second tropical storm of the season, and it's battering the texas gulf coast with 660 mile an hou winds and as much as a foot of rain, falling on ground that is already saturated from last month's deadly floods. i want to bring in cnn meteorologist jennifer gray in galveston. also chad myers at the cnn center in atlanta. jennifer, how is it looking bad and how bad is it expected to be? >> well, right now luckily it's a little bit better than it was about an hour ago where we had very, very gusty winds and very, very heavy rainfall. right now we have just light
rain. the winds are still breezy but at its worst winds were about 45 miles per hour, gusting even higher. so it was pretty nasty for a while. you can see the seas have calmed down quite a bit. high tide was at 6:30 this morning and so since then the seas have steadily gone down and down which is excellent news. of course it's still very rough. this public beach is nowhere to be found. it's underwater because the tides are running about four and five feet above normal. looks like we only have minor flooding issues here in galveston. of course just to our east right around bolivar peninsula they have had more significant flooding. all the areas that aren't protected by a sea wall, definitely seeing some of that, ashleigh, but we are still expected to be in this for the next couple of hours as this pushes inland and causes possible major flooding across the rest of the state. >> jennifer, you and your crew be careful in galveston. chad myers in cnn center. it's not just a texas story. >> that's right. it's definitely not.
it's oklahoma, it's arkansas, it's missouri and eventually all the way to pennsylvania. that's how far this thing is going to swing. it won't be a tropical storm when it gets to pennsylvania or oklahoma but the center is coming on shore right now, ashleigh. as we speak, coming on shore right over the mat gora seashore, national wildlife seashore. it go l go very close to san antonio and make a turn toward dallas. don't look at that line because i want you to see how far it goes this way and how far it's going go that way. this will be the area that gets the heavy rainfall. it's a wide storm, it's been over the ocean all morning long, gathering strength, gaining power, gaining moisture and that moisture will come on shore and make more flooding. the ground is saturated, there's no place for this to soak in. we'll see band after band come in to jennifer's live shot. big, big weather for jenner in the next few hours as those outer bands come on. here we go. this is why it gets to cincinnati, to indiana, maybe even to pittsburgh because it wraps around low pressure here, a high pressure right here and it's going to get to the
northeast eventually as a rain maker. ashleigh? >> that is ugly. especially for the texans. jennifer and chad, thank you both, do appreciate it. we'll watch those systems as they move. coming up next, a third suspect charged in the terror attack at a mohammed cartoon contest in texas and there could be more to come. the details just ahead.
indicted a third suspect in garland, texas, in that shooting incident. the attack happening last month outside of a prophet mohammed cartoon drawing con nest that dallas suburb. cnn's ed lavandera is following the story live. who is the third suspect and what is the nexus to the two who were shot dead before they could carry out their attack? >> ashleigh, even though this attack took place here in the dallas suburb of garland, texas, all of this stems back to the relationships that these two men, the two men that were shot and killed on that day and their connections back to arizona. the federal grand jury indicted a man by the name of abdul malik abdul kareem, and in this indictment which is just a few pages long, federal investigators detail his relationship with the two men, elton simpson nadir soofi who were gunned down before they could get into the building where that cartoon contest was being held in garland. but investigators say that karim was instrumental until helping
them, those two men, obtain the weapons in the indictment it also says they had gone out into desert areas of arizona and practiced firing these weapons between january and may of this year, he was indicted on three different counts including conspiracy, interstate transportation of firearms with intent to commit a felony as well as making false statements to investigators. so that's where we stand now. not much else known about him other than the fact that we spoke with the president of the islamic senter there in phoenix, arizona, who says that karim was not someone who regularly attended the mosque in the phoenix area, that he'd come on to this man's radar several years ago. if and when he was seen around the mosque he was cleaning carpet there is at the mosque but we're told this was not someone who attended mosque on a regular basis ashleigh. >> so i get the connection. he cleaned the carpets at the mosque. that d-- nadir soofi and elton
simpson attended that mosque so that's their connection. then they talk about other people that they may have spoken with. what more do we know about that? are there going to be more arrests? >> you're left wondering thinking where this is going to go. several times as you're reading the indictment it states that mr. simpson, mr. soofi and others known and unknown to the grand jury. that reference is made several times throughout the several pages in this indictment which kind of leaves the impression there are other people who might have been involved in the planning or in the early relationships who knew about what was about to happen and that investigators are still taking perhaps a closer look at some of those relationships in the months leading up to that attack. so you're definitely left with that impression as you read through this indictment. >> so there you go, abdul malik abdul karim looking at charges stemming from potentially giving those firearms allegedly to the two terrorists. ed lavandera, keep on it, let us
know when we hear about any other development. thank you. nice to see you. coming up next terrible details. a sledgehammer could be a key piece of evidence when the one and only suspect in the mcstay family murder case finally goes to trial. this is happening after five long years. when you hear how those kids died, how their parents died, you may be astounded. taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar, but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza. he said victoza works differently than pills, and comes in a pen. victoza is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once a day, any time. and the needle is thin. victoza is not for weight loss, but it may help you lose some weight. victoza is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes
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. long before investigators knew that four members of the missing mcstay family in southern california were dead, a business associate was speaking of them in the past tense -- not always a good sign. that was early 2010 and more than five years later that little clue helped to persuade a judge to order chase merritt tried on four counts of murder one each for joseph mcstay, his wife summer and their young sons gianni age four and joseph, jr., aged three. yes, aged four and three. but there was something else that came out in yesterday's hearing, that the families had been fatally bludgeoned with a sledgehammer which was found with some of their remains in the desert northeast of los angeles. detectives also testified that
chase merritt's dna was found on the steering wheel of the mcstay's suv, though he denied driving it. finally, prosecutors pointed to an interview that merritt did with cnn's own randi kaye before he was arrested last fall and in that interview he said he is "definitely the last person that joseph mcstay saw on this earth." also a bad fact. time to bring in my lawyer, cnn legal analyst danny cevallos and hln legal analyst joey jackson. so those are the prosecutor's facts but we haven't heard from anybody on the defense side of things yet. can you stomach a defense when you hear little children aged three and four had their skulls smashed, danny? >> you have to. that's our job. our job is to take a horrible set of facts and challenge the prosecution to prove each and element of their case beyond a reasonable doubt. and the reason that we're
hearing so much about the prosecution ice case right now is that we're really only at the preliminary hearing stage. that's when the prosecution has to make out their case, not beyond a reasonable doubt but to the lesser standard of probable cause. which means that the prosecution's challenge is to show as much of their hand strategically but just enough to have the case held over without showing too much and signaling too much information to the defense. >> don't give away the farm, right? >> although certainly as defense attorneys we try to get the farm. and that means we're going to ask questions during that hearing to get as much discovery as you poeb cssibly can. to danny's point, the judge is deciding is there enough to go to trial. certainly horrible facts here, the bludgeoning, the sledgehammering, a four-year-old, a three-year-old boy, mr. mcstay and his wife gone. they appear to be compelling facts when you look at dna on a steering wheel. hey, i didn't drive it but there's dna there. but remember this, ashleigh, at
the preliminary hearing the facts have yet to be challenged by the defense and so there is dna on the steering wheel. there could be multiple explanations consistent with science as to how it go t there even though mr. merritt did not drive that car. >> they were business partners, they weren't unknown to one another. >> exactly. >> i would find that right field. so it's a bit of a mystery and i'm sure your minds will come to it right away. summer mcstay, the mother, she was found in a shallow grave with no top on but she was a -- apparently there was a bra found with her, either on her or with her and it had paint spatters on it. and the paint matches up with paint that was in their home and it looked as though they'd been undergoing some kind of renovation. >> the home. >> again, it sounds very mysterious, it sounds like it's some kind of smoking gun but in the end i'm not sure i can make much of it when it comes to this case and chase merritt. >> just thinking ahead to a possible defense, the defense might call an expert that says
this particular color and brand of paint is found virtually everywhere. it's sold in many stores, you can find it in many places, this particular brand of paint is not, in fact, all that unusual and that might just be thinking ahead one kind of defense but you're not going to see it at this stage. because, again, rare is the case where a defense attorney calls witnesses or puts on an expert or puts on any evidence at a preliminary hearing because there is no upside. it's all risk. >> 10 seconds, joey. chase merritt said to randi kaye, and i'm paraphrasing "yes, i'm certain i'm the last person he saw on earth. requests. >> sure, that in and of itself is not so compelling although it raises a suspicion but what happens, ashleigh, is you have to evaluate that evidence on top of everything else, the tire tracks that were at the scene, the cell phone pings at the cape ann. why is his cell phone at the shallow grave? there's a lot to be explained and it will be explained by the defense at the time of trial,
just not now. >> innocent until proven guilty. >> always. >> there can be an explanation for everything. it always looks bad when you hear the prosecution's case, it always sounds horrible at the beginning of a case. danny, joey, appreciate it. thank you, everyone. my colleague brianna keilar is going to take it from here. hi there, i'm brianna keilar in for wolf blitzer. it's 1:00 p.m. in washington, 6:00 p.m. in london and 8:00 p.m. in moscow. wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks so much for joining us. up first, he vows to make america great again and with that real estate mogul and reality tv star donald trump announced he's running for president of the united states. in true trump fashion, his off-the-cuff speech promoted him as the leader the country needs. >> our country needs a truly great