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tv   CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin  CNN  June 17, 2015 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT

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hen the suspect allegedly tried to attack the agent. there were no serious injuries to the agent or snin else but we expect to see charges against the suspect announced anytime now. the search was part of a broader case involving another isis relawsuited suspect that was announced yesterday. in that case a 20-year-old ear nautics student was queens was arrested and charged with plotting to build and detonate bombs in new york. >> i have heard you say, but it's worth reiterating with youb have the queens case, what happened today you have what happened in boston a couple of weeks ago. to your point, this is a time in which the federal government are really digging down on potentially home grown terror because instants are up? >> that's right. absolutely. i was just meeting last week with with counter terrorism officials on the west coast and they tell me they have not seen as high a threat in any time in
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recent memory. that's what got them concerned. we recall the attack in garland, texas just a few weeks ago in which two gunman tried to attack a prophet mohamed cartoon contest. that incident is inspiring other people to carry out other attacks in this country. so the fbi is increasing its surveillance. we know that local law enforcement, big police departments are doing some of the same because they believe that one of these attacks could happen at any time. and they want to try to do what they can to stop it. >> evan perez, thank you very much. in washington, d.c. let's broaden this out with our cnn global affairs correspondent kimberly kimberly do zer. this is connected to what happened other the weekend, a 20-year-old queens man charged with conspiring to provide material support to isis. and i was just talking to evan about it. it seems like he mentioned the
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inspiration from what happened in garland, for arrests. what's happening? >> i was just at a conference of people trying to figure out the same thing. why are so many of their young people being attracted to isis. and as near as they could figure out, it's that isis understands not only american and western culture better than a lot of these scholars and muslim leaders do. but that they also know how to tap into the anger against it. one scholar said a lot of imams in this country and the united states aren't familiar with that kim kardashian kanye west culture. they don't know to advice their young people how to square traditional principles with that culture and how to advise them to fit in. isis is telling them a very simp l message. that culture insults your beliefs, attack.
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>> why is isis so familiar with western culture then? where did that come from? >> a lot of people within the ranks of isis are foreign fighters who have come from other parts of europe and some from the united states. and that helps feed into this knowledge of okay this is what's going on in the outside world. this is what we're building a so called caliphate against. and so that message is very seductive. it's not the message of be patient, try to fit in try to find where you belong here. it's no they're wrong, you're right and you should attack back. >> thank you. it's frightening. 10,000 square acres scoured, 1400 leads and not a single scrap of evidence here. so now the manhunt expands. >> today the search for escaped inmates richard matt and david sweat will expand and shift to
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other areas surrounding dannemora. personnel are being deployed to other areas. people in the region should expect to see law enforcement in their community as the search expands. >> and as the search expands, police are now eyeing two people who could be key to tracking down the two cold blooded murderers. you have the prison seamstress joyce mitchell who is in a joil clel herself and her husband lyle mitchell a sounds telling cnn that joyce warned her husband about the inmates plan to bust out of jail and kill him. but his lawyer said he has no idea about her sexual relationship with the inmates and not planning on testifying on her behalf. this lawyer telling us quote, he is not denying the allegations against joyce. joining me now, former director of u.s. marshals office. welcome back. >> hi brooke. >> let me throw up on the screen the two pictures. these are what we call
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progression photos. this is what they would look like at 11 or so days in the woods or wherever they are. wouldn't they have tried to disguise themselves? how, in your experience have people done that? >> i mean they've done it several ways. you can see the age progression photos have them in a beard. i mean they could be clean shaven, they could have dyed their hair. could be wearing baseball caps sunglasses anything to cover their identity. but it seems that the case a the this point is entering a transition phase where as they expand the parameter it becomes obviously more pour rouse. and i think at this point the u.s. marshals have been covering basis by not only alerting interpol and our friends across canada and the mexican border. but also as the case gets outside of new york state, they have a federal warrant to continue the investigation if that does occur.
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>> so with a more pour rouse perimeter which would be good news for them if they're still inside how do you combat the porousness. what would be the strategy be if you're expanding your search area because you're not finding anything? >> right. you're right, brooke. what's happening is we're in to day 12 of this manhunt. that's really an extended period to conduct a manhunt. sometimes you can do just as good from the investigative perspective with ten or 15 law enforcement officials as opposed to 800. very soon you're going to see this intense manhunt break down a little bit. i think it's good that they still have a going but i think we're going to start seeing leads possibly come outside of the new york area which means it's entering the investigative phase. >> what do you mean leads outside. you mean potentially what canada maybe mexico? >> yes, could be canada mexico could be new england states
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could be -- you know i see this case actually shifting to more of a national and sbr national focus as opposed to just new york state. but i think they do have a good plan where they are covering all of their basis by continuing with a manhunt but also covering the domestic the national and international leads as they come in. >> i mean, i cringe a little bit hearing you say potentially international. everyone thought they would have within caught in a matter of days and as you point out this is day 12. how do you -- the question is obviously how they pulled it off. you can't answer that. but i don't know. i'm just almost you know -- you know i'm so struck by the fact that it's day 12 and nothing beyond what -- let's say this gets into two weeks. beyond that doesn't the potential for them to stay out of sight increase? >> it does because obviously the -- i mean, you're talking about our frustration.
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can you imagine the frustration that's going in within that law enforcement officials' camp? it's got to be crazy in there. and i'll tell you as this expands out further, you know it's almost impossible to keep this manhunt going and keep expanding the perimeter. that just kind of -- when i look at this and see how big -- the perimeter was fairly large to by begin with. now it's almost immanageable. from a perspective of budget issues it's almost unsustainable. public safety is number one and they'll keep it going. but soon you'll hear of leads possibly coming from outside of the new york area. >> how is this compared to let's say the toughest manhunt you were assigned to? >> this is definitely up in the top five. i did a lot with the alcatraz escape back in the '80s, '90s and early 2000s. those individuals were never found.
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possibly presumed dead but who knows this. this is similar to that. of course we're only in day 12. but the way we conduct fugitive investigations nowadays, they will be arrested. it east just a matter of time. >> thank you very much mplg thank you, brooke. next, donald trump offending just about everyone in his campaign kickoff speech but one group is firing back today. why donald trump is being called racist for his comments about mexico. plus rachel dolezal launching a national debate over race and identity over her position as a chapter president in the naacp. obviously now no longer. but my next guest is an african american woman and she says no big deal in a sense. hear why . a psychiatrist who listened to a monster before his shooting spry inside a movie theater makes chilling revelations about what james holmes told her about his desire to kill.
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you're watching cnn, i'm brooke baldwin. republican presidential candidate donald trump on the campaign trail in iowa. people are talking about his rather unorth tox trump tower announcement that he's running. critics are taking issue with the scathing comments he made about mexico about mexicans. >> when mexico sends its people they're not sending their best. they're not sending you. they're not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists and some i assume are good
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people. but i speak to border guards and they tell us what they're getting. and it only makes common sense. it only makes common sense. >> joining me now from new hampshire, cnn senior washington correspondent joe johns where donald trump will be in a matter of hours and also juan par los. i've read a lot of comments today. one quote ds a presidential and absurd. what has the response been? >> along those lines. there are those who don't take donald trump ear jousry or his comments. it's not the first time he insults mexico or mexicans. and the interesting part here is mexican immigration to the united states is at its lowest rate in years. most of the immigration through the southern border is people coming from central america. but still the mexican government usually tries to stay out of
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u.s. politics. but they saw it necessary to respond to mr. trump. >> joe, you've covered many a politician in your years in washington. the notion of calling mexicans rapists, people lose their jobs over words like those. and this is a man running for the president of the united states. >> that's absolutely true. and as you talk across the spectrum of republicans, there is a lot of concern about these words from trump. but i also have to point out to you the concern is sort of based on whether or not you take trump seriously right now as a candidate. so national council called him a very silly man. but there were some other much more serious, i think, reactions out there. the bottom line with donald trump is he's been saying this kind of thing again and again and again and it appeals to a certain segment that is worried about jobs worried about the security of the border.
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on the other hand the republican party has been trying to reach out to hispanics, latinos trying to get them in the tent. and this doesn't help at all. it could put some other republicans very much on the spot as we move toward debates. >> but here's the thing. and juan carlos this is to you. a lot of people like donald trump. they like this he speaks so candidly. he's still polling. what does that tell you? >> i mean it tells me that he has a strategy that he's making headlines. he's getting the attention. he's always craving. so this is typical donald trump. as joe said want will this translate in a boost to his possibilities of becoming the republican nominee? probably not. he's upsetting people who were not going to vote for him anyway and he's trying to get people on board. the question is he seriously considering running for the nomination and from what we've heard yesterday and today i
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think many can but that in doubt. >> thank you both so much. we'll be looking for you later this evening. thank you both very much. donald trump name may be able to draw some crowds. but another candidates campaign is showing unexpected signs of life. bernie sanders packing rallies with standing room only supporters. at last sunday's event was he was surprised about the crowd, joked about knocking down wall to make room. the vermont senator is up in the polls, making gains on hillary clinton clinton. a poll shows sanders getting 31% of likely democratic support ares compared to clinton's 31. our cnn political director and guru i want to get to the polling numberings in just a moment. when you look at just the sheer crowds at his events and the rallies, and it's just getting
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bigger. why is that happening? >> well brooke there is one element to politics that is sort of an untouchable. and that is enthusiasm right? and when you have a candidate -- we've seen this in the past. i'll speak to democratic contests in the past howard deen or other candidates that surprise you and come from a liberal base of the party and they get enthusiastic about the candidate that has this i'd logic purity which bernie sanders has. it doesn't necessarily convert into a win, it did for barack obama, that enthusiasm. but right now bernie sanders is feeling -- it's where the energy is the excitement the enthusiasm is for the folks in the party seeking the i'd logical purity. >> is this what the numbers are all about in new hampshire with bernie sanders and hillary clinton in that enthusiasm? >> i think it is. that's a warning sign for
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hillary clinton. i do think, he comes from neighboring vermont. he's known in new hampshire. and he is getting that sort of the folks that were waiting and hoping for elizabeth war rent to g get into the party. he's a vehicle, a vessel for that non-hillary vote to coa les around. if you go back into 2000 and look at bill bradley versus al gore if you remember that contest. bill bradley got 36% or 37% to have vote in iowa north of 45% in the new hampshire primary. but he sort of exited the stage and wasn't at the end of the day an enormous factor. we may see something similar here with bernie sanders. he's going to have an impact with hillary. but he hay not be actually proving to be a mortal threat to her candidacy.
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>> we wanted to pop in some live pictures, hillary clinton speaking at an event in south carolina. coming up next major developments in the colorado shooting. another juror dismissed here in the mass murder trial of james holmes. this happening amid chilling testimony from the psychiatrist who work one on one with james holmes for his shooting spree. when were you first considered a family? when you fell in love? when you got married? when you had kids?
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. a fifth juror has been dismissed in the colorado theater shooting trial of james holmes. today's juror was dismissed for not telling the judge that they recognized a witness that testified last month. so the court now has 19 jurors remaining, 12 of whom will decide if james holmes is either guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity. one of the issues these jurors
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need to consider here is this disturbing testimony from his psychiatrist, dr. lynne fenton. during therapy holmes told her he thought about killing people three to four times a day. this is the same woman who holmes nailed his journal to days before the shooting in the theater. inside of the journal, pages and pages of plans and diagrams of the massacre. investigators found anytime the department's mail room four days too late. although dr. fenton testified that holmes spoke often of homicide these plans and targets were never mentioned. fenton says that is why she never called the police. >> ocd symptoms were the worse they had been and the solution to the quote biological problem would be to eliminate the problem, homicide. but you can't kill everyone so it's not an effective solution.
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>> how did that affect you. >> how did it affect? me? >> how did you take that? >> for one thing i wasn't sure what he meant by the biological problem. but he seemed to be dismissing the idea of homicide as an effective solution. >> can we call the homicidal ideation? >> yes. >> have you had patient like that before? >> i have. >> does that instantly mean in yush experience that they're going to go out and commit a crime? >> no. >> what do you do to determine thou this homicidal ideation may be affecting this person? >> i try to understand if they are making -- they have a plan if they're taking any steps to carry out any action that is related to these thoughts. and then secondly if the homicidal ideation is directed at any specific target. >> did you ask them those
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questions? >> i did. >> what did he tell you? >> no to both. >> i'd like to bring in a clinical psychiatrist who's written articles about james holmes. deal welcome back. here's really my first question. you know listen i know laws vary state by state as far as when a medical professional needs to pick up the phone and call the police. how do you determine whether the person your patient is truly a danger or threat to society? >> well first of all, there are two things in psychiatry 101 that you have to do. you have to ask if the person has ever had thoughts of harming themselves or had thoughts of harming another. at that point if you get a yes -- >> we know he had both. >> we do. but then you go through what i would call thought, talk plan action. so you've thought about it. had you talked to friends about it? have you mentioned this? do you have a plan and have you
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acted on the plan? and the parent point and the key point here is that you to pursue that doggedly sometimes. you know in psychiatry we would like to be able to take our time build an alliance get comfort wbl the patient, have them get comfortable with us. but if you get a yes to one of those questions, that at that point goes out the window and you have to pursue that. sometimes it becomes very uncomfortable but you still have to do it. >> that's what i wanted to ask you about. though you want that person to continue coming to see you, right, deal i mean you have to establish this trust as well. and we know that the psychiatrist said he was so focused on building her word an alliance with james holmes how do you -- at the end of the day, if you need the kwaul itcall it in you call it in. >> at the end of the day you have to put your priorities in order. and the priority number one is don't allow the patient to harm themselves or to harm another.
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you have to assess that risk no matter what. on day one they say yeah i've had thoughts of hurting someone else. you have to pursue it at that time. the alliance has to be. put on the back burner. sometimes you've only got the one session to make the call is this person dangerous. and literally you may be saving a life by making that decision. alliance comes second at that point. >> i know we're not on the inside of it. you didn't at all meet street james holmes. but you've paged through the journal, we know a bit of his history based on the trial. would you have called police? >> you know i think with a patient that was thinking about it three to four times a day, i would have been very very on the trigger of calling the police with this guy. i would have questioned him for a full hour. i would have talked -- have you mentioned this to anybody. have you talked to friend about it. one other thing that's interesting that the doctor mentioned was that she didn't
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understand some of the things he was saying. now, that is a red flag right away. when you get that psychotic thinking may be in place. and you've got to start reevaluating the e assessment there. she thought ocd was his main problem. but you start getting bizarre statements and you can't figure out what they mean, often these the beginning of a thought disorder and that leads to psychosis. that's something that's very interesting. if i had to make the call right now from what i know yes i would have called police. >> you would have called the police. >> i think so, gentleman. >> the prosecutor emphasized while james homements was showing up to the appointments taking his meds he was also buying weapons for this attack doing this secretly. based upon what you know does this sound like insanity or does it sound like intent? >> here is the big question.
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okay? it sounds to me as the therapy went on he was getting sicker. now the doctor said she thought she was getting to know him better. i'm not so sure about this. i'm not sure this wasn't a developing psychosis. we know he planned it. he had the notebook we've seen this. he was buying weapons when he was going to see the psychiatrist. that's nothing new. but the big question what happened in the week before the event. i would want witnesses to tell me was he behavior deteriorating. was he becoming a weird and strange guy? that that would indicate to me that he had the thoughts but until he had the psychotic break he wasn't going to act on them. on the other hand if we have the testimony that he was the same old guy, didn't change then i would be incliend to think he was rational coherent not psychotic and this is a very very mean and vile individual who decided to kale people. that's the question. the week before is going to be the answer. >> we'll continue having
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conversations. we'll see what happens there in the courtroom in centennial colorado. thank you so much. coming up next, new details in today on the manhunt for the two escaped prisoners. speaking with jason carroll just recently. we'll kmek in with him from the search zone next. across america, people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza.
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nutrition starts with nut. i want to tell you the new details about the woman arrested for allegedly helping these two killers escape from the new york state prison. a source says that joyce mitchell knew about the escapees plan to kill her husband and she warned him that his life could be in danger. i want to go straight to jason carroll who is there. i know you just spoke with the
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sheriff here. you have more information. what did he share with you? >> reporter: well yes. you know i spoke to the clinton county sheriffs about joyce mitchell saying she's very composed. also said she's basically absorbing everything that's going on around her. he also told me she's been watching the news reports, watching all of the coverage about the prison escape. i asked him based on his interaction with her and based on all of the allegations and accusations surrounding what she may or may not have done, if any of this is beginning to weigh on her. >> has she expressed any remorse, any reget at all? >> i think it's a little early for that. there's a lot going on around her with the media attention. she's consuming that and absorbing that. >> i know you also mentioned that perhaps she's actually watching some of the news reports. >> i'm sure she is. they have access to various types of media, newspaper,
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magazines, as well as television. >> reporter: and brooke about that murder plot i actually spoke with joyce mitchell's attorney this afternoon, that was just a short while ago. and as yaw know and as you were saying that richard matt and david sweat allegedly had some sort of a plot to murder joyce mitchell's husband, i asked joyce mitchell's attorney about that. he said yes, his client did know about that gave the warning to lyle mitchell was that was the extent of it. quote, just because she heard something about it doesn't mean she was going to act on it. i don't believe she was involved in any attempt to kill her husband. as you know there were some reports and some allegations about that surrounding her involvement in that as well. so an investigation very much under way and in terms of if bigger picture, the search very much underway as well. brooke? >> thank you so much. now one of the biggest questions is how a wife how a mother even
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just gets into a relationship with not just one but two of the convicted killers, and at least one of them was an alleged sexual relationship. that was with richard matt a psychopathic killer who tortured and dismembered his boss. but this is actually a known term. it's actually called high bris feel ya. and it's a disturbing subject of the documentary entitled "serial killer groupies, a love story". >> according to a recent fbi study there have been 400 serial quillers in the united states and they've murdereds 4,000 victims. once they're caught they become america's newest celebrities. they're featured on magazine covers movies are made about their lives and books are written. serial killers become house hold names achieving rock star levels of fame and notoriety. and just like rock stars they have thousands of female fans. >> so i spoke with a woman, you
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just heard her voice, the director of the documentary and last hour she explained to me why anyone would be attracted to a killer. >> there are many reasons. some people like the fame. you know if you have a letter from charles manson suddenly you're the life of the party. others like the closeness with danger. and you mentioned hybristophilia. and the definition of that is getting sexual arousal and excitement by being around danger or dangerous people. and -- >> that is answer actual thing, a scientific term. >> yes. absolutely. and it's more common than i realized when i became -- began this work a few years ago. i had no idea how popular, especially serial killers are.
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>> joy krause. just in days after stepping down from her role in the naacp and being questioned and questioned about her race and identity there is now word that rachel dolezal has been found guilty of ethics violations by her city. hear why next. ♪ ♪ one day a rider made a decision. the decision to ride on and save money. he decided to save money by switching his motorcycle insurance to geico. there's no shame in saving money.
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got some news now on rachel dolezal, the former naacp leader accused of faking her race. this is what we've just loernd. the city of spokane, washington says dolezal vie latded ethics rules. an independent investigation found that she revealed names of citizens who made complaints
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about police and now she may have stepped down from her post at the naacp in spokane but she's not backing down when it comes to questions about her race and identity. in this latest interview with nbc news the former naacp chapter president says she is quote unquote definitely not white despite the fact that both-her white parents have presented the pictures and birth certificates to prove it. now rachel dolezal has put her mother and father into question. >> when somebody asks are you black, which i actually don't get asked very often until recently, since a few days ago, then i say yeah. i do -- i am black. i know who raised me. i haven't had a dna test. there's been no biological proof that larry and ann are my biological parents. >> you doubt whether ruth ann
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and larry are your parents? >> i'm just saying i can't prove that. >> there's a birth certificate that has your name on it and their names on it. why would you doubt something so fundamental? >> i'm not saying that i can't prove they're not. i can't prove they are. the birth certificate is issued a month and a half after i was born. i definitely am not white. nothing about being white describes who i am. so you know what's the word for it? you know i mean the closest thing that i can come to is if you're black or white, i'm black. >> let's discuss with these ladies. i have sunny hostin with me. ladies welcome. still much to explore on this one. i read in the daily beast where you're basically like this is not news. you're saying that white women have been your words, stealing
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black women's beauty for years. >> well yes. and let me just add that do i think the story has been overcovered? absolutely. am i guilty of covering it absolutely. >> it's resonating. >> it's struck a chord. i have tremendous empathy because no one can listen to this woman being interviewed and not be convinced she's one slice short of a functioning pie. there's something off about what she's saying and trying to convince herself. but i'm glad we're having the conversation. as i explain in my piecest that it's very od that black women are trying to figure out whether wearing cornrows will cost them a promotion. he was talking about the work she was doing as wacky, odd and possibly offensive as her dishonesty is. i'm glad we're having the conversations about racial identity and beauty that we might not be having as much as we should. >> i want you to chime in.
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bo derek never said okay i think i'm black. this woman really believes she is. >> i think that's the issue for so many of us. and i agree, i mean historically african american women have worn cornrows. historically they've not been embraced as sort of the beauty standard. so when you have a blond blue eyed white woman pretending to be african american -- >> she wouldn't say she's pretending. she was sitting here. >> she believes that she's african american. >> identifies is the correct word. >> sort of dressing that way, that really is fascinating. but i think the problem that so many people are having is the deception. not only the deception in terms of being -- saying that she's black, so therefore probably getting that naacp leadership. but also being on this place oversight board, also teaching
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african studies from the perspective of a black woman. that in and of itself is not being authentic, not having that authentic experience. that's troubling. >> on the notion of deception, i'm glad you brought that up. i had a fascinating conversation yesterday with a professor. she wrote this opinion piece in the washington post. she said i want to play the soundbite because she says you know so many people see this deception lying but she talked a lot about identity and written pages on this. rachel dolezal does not think she's lying. listen to this professor. >> i don't think she thinks she lied. i think she thinks that racial identity is something that you actualize in the way that you live and the commitments that you have in the family connections that you have. and that she did things that established herself as a member of the black community. i think that's why she's resisting characterizing what
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she did as lying. >> i don't believe that. >> respond to that. >> the reasonable i don't believe that is because she sued howard university in 2002 for discrimination as a white woman. and that i think, is the huge disconnect here. if she really believed that she were black, if she really believed that -- if it's true that she's been drawing with the brown crayon since she was five years old and that was tryly her identity then i don't think she would have sued based on the premise that she was discriminated against as a white woman. that is where that argument for me at least, falls apart. >> just because my mom tells me i'm pretty and i wake up in the morning and say hey, kelly, you're a super model does not make me one. i interviewed some experts last year for a piece that we're about 30 years away from our racial definitions being fluid. >> checking the boxes. >> fastest growing in the country.
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we're only a decade away from someone saying vi a black grandparent, i look like brooke baldwin. why can't i apply for the african americanship. >> thank you both so much. i really appreciate both of you. coming up next back to the break news here. we've learned an fbi agent attacked with this weapon. this is first time we've put the picture up. this knife while searching the home of a suspected isis sympathizer in new york. we have more on that. stay with us.
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tens of thousands of haitian immigrants are on the verge of being kicked out of the dominican republic. at the de portations are supposed to begin tomorrow some of the people who could be deported there, dominican
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haitians so legal citizens born in the dominican republic but of haitian descent. haitians say people are being mistreated because of coloring of their skin. here's more from rafael romo. >> reporter: they patiently wait in line hoping to get documents that will allow them to stay here legally. they are haitian immigrants living in the dominican republic. some migrated after the devastating 2010 earthquake but most have been in the dominican republic for much longer even decades. now their status is on the line. in 2013 the dominican supreme court ruled that people born to noncitizens as far back as 1929 did not qualify for citizenship. immigrants have until wednesday evening to show documentation to legalize their status.
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the dominican foreign minister announced that people without legal papers will have to return to their country of origins. authorities say haitians are the largest group of foreign ner their country with about half a million applying for residency hasn't been easy. "i've been waiting for 15 days here and still have yet to be papers" this haitian says. they are getting ready for immeant de portation. this official says his government is opening two repatriation centers along the border to receive the migrants who will have to return to their country. do minute kin officials say all is not bad news. on the positive side, he says, we will have more than 200,000 people who were in our territory without status, and are now in the process of getting their documents, but there will be at least a quarter million who
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don't have papers. haitians will have to go back to their country even though they've called the dominican republic home for years. i'm brooke bail win. thank you for being with me "the lead" with jake tapper starts now. \s. hillary clinton's clear past seems a little americayer today. i'm jake tapper this is "the lead." jeb jabbed with jimmy, the donald debuted in des moines but as hillary clinton swings into south carolina where the clintons have a rocky history, new poll shows some swing state voters say they just don't trust her. the national lead. police say there's no hard evidence that two fugitives are far gone yesterday. the search for richard matt and david sweat is expanding nationally and beyond. we'll