tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN September 8, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
thanks very much for watching. we'll see you again at 11:00 p.m. eastern. "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts now. >> she turns away gay couples who want to get married. now, kim davis is out. but that's not the end of the story. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. the kentucky clerk getting a rock star session on her release today. but will she back down? i want you to listen to what the $10 billion man just told bill o reilly about the black lives matter movement. >> i think they're trouble. i think they're looking for trouble. i looked at a couple of people that were interviewed from the group. i saw them with hate coming down the street. >> tonight, just a week away
from our big cnn debate, i'm going to talk to the man who stumped trump. he'll be part of that debate, as well. plus, an emotional hillary clinton speaks out. and wait until you hear what wendy williams says about donald trump. kim davis walked out of jail and onto a stage with her husband, her attorney and presidential hopeful, mike huckabee. here it is. >> would you please help me welcome to the stage kim davis. ♪ ♪ ♪ rising up back on the street ♪ did my time ♪ took my chances
[ chanting ] >> i just want to give god the glory -- [ cheers and applause ] >> his people have rallied and you are a strong people. we serve a living god. who knows exactly where each and every one of us is at. just keep on pressing. don't let down. because he is here. and he's worthy. i love you guys. thank you so much. >> that was kim davis. again, earlier today.
his republican candidate for governor of kentucky and he jones me now. good evening to you. kim davis was released from jail today. you don't think she ever should have been there, even though she was defieing the law of the land? >> i do agree with that, don. and i appreciate you having me on tonight. the reamity is what law did she break? i would challenge anyone to state that. what's interesting is that on july 10th, long before this would ultimately turn into a carnival, was unfolded. i put forward a solution. because that's what governors do and people who a also pie to be governor. i put forth a solution on july 10th so that all parties could be treated under the law. i'm running against a man who's the attorney general of the state who if he had his druthers, she would still be in jail tonight. that's the difference. >> the supreme court said that marriage -- same-sex marriage was the law of the land and she
refused to get marriage licenses not only to same-sex couples, but to everyone. the feds said she was breaking a law. that's the law that she broke. but this is what you tweeted, your support of kim davis. you said i was honor today have kim davis and her husband ask for me to visit them in carter county jail today. and then you said we are k-y, we are kentucky. what did she say when you visited her? >> i'm not going to share that information. i've had others ask me the same thing. out of fairness to her and with respect to her and her husband joe, that's privileged conversation. but it was an excellent conversation. i've had conversations with them in the past. it was good to see them. i'm delighted that, in fact, she is not in jail tonight. should never have been there. >> listen, she has been highly criticized, as you know. and especially when it comes to the sanctity of marriage. she's been married four times. do you find it hypocrite kal for her to stand in judgment of
others, again, when you're considering particularly the sanctity of marriage? >> did you happen to watch if entire press conference today? or the entire situation unfold? >> i watched it, but will you answer my question and then we can discuss that? >> the reason i ask is that i would encourage you and anyone else who's watching, go back and listen to her life story. i don't find it at all to be the case. in fangct, what i find to be hypocrite kal are so many folks who attack her for her life. her christian faith is a new part of her life in recent years. all of the thing that is you're quick to be snide about predate any of her religious convictions. i think she should be applauded as somebody who looks back and say that's my old life. she should be applauded for that. this is the type of thing that frankly, we celebrate and
protect in america. that's what america does. >> i'm just asking you the questions here. so i'm not being snide. it's just -- i'm asking questions and you're answering them. how are her actions, though, any different than refusing a biracial couple a license? >> they're very different in this case. you go back to the loving case or whatever the case might be. this is an instance where as you noticed, the supreme court makes rulings. and in this case, they did make a ruling. they reinterpresented the 14th amendment to provide and afford certain protections under the law to, in this case, same-sex couples for the ablt to get married. fair enough. but what we have is actual enabling legislation. we have on the books, a law that actually precludes that from being the case. what has happened historically when this is the case? one of two things. either states have said we're not going to agree, such as when dread scott said we're the
property of whites and are subhuman. there are state that is said we're not going to agree with that. and they said we will, at the state level, stand on our tenth amendment rights and do something different. so that has been the case. there have been others, including eing that which you noted. so there's a disconnect between the ruling and the actual law itself. it ee's important to note that july 10th, i've put forward a solution that would allow states just that hawaii has done is you make this a down dm loadble form. >> that happened today. that was a compromise. burr h but her attorney is saying that's not enough. she's still going to go back to work. i want to play this for you. we're talking about religion here. and the interpretation of the bible. this is something that reminded me of something that i saw on television years ago.
from a television show called west wing. take a look. >> i don't say homosexuality is an abomination, mr. president. the bible does. >> i wanted to ask you a couple of questions while i had you here. i'm interested in selling my daughter into slavery as sanctioned in exodus, 21. 7. what would a good price for her be? touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. if they promise to wear gloves, can the washington redskins still play football? can i burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? think about those questions, would you? >> so i'd like you to think about those questions. he is basically saying that what she is doing is relying on ancient text, even the bible, to
oblt to something in a modern day life. and it doesn't make sense. it doesn't even follow the law. >> frankly, what you're asking me to do is make commentary on a television program. i'm talking about real life. >> but it's about actual real life bible verses. >> i'm running for governor. >> i understand that. answer my question. those are real life bible verszs. >> if you would stop talking -- >> i will stop talking, but, anyways. those are real life bible verszs that he's referring to. >> you're showing an amazing -- >> i'm not showing. i'm asking you -- >> you're selectively choosing. >> but that's what she's doing. hang on. will you let me finish. will you let me finish and then you can answer the question. what she has done is -- >> you're seeming a little bit upset here. >> i'm not up set. you're the one who is not answering the question. what she has done is picked the
bible verses that she wants to interpret them in the way that she wants to interpret them when there are many bible verses that you can interpret literally and draw your own conclusion from. >> don, i appreciate your now theological expertise and i appreciate you sharing that with your audience. but the bottom line is this. what i've done is propose a solution whereby there's equal protection under the law. this is something our current governor and our kurnts attorney general should have addressed. >> mr. bevin, with all due respected, you've just given me the same answer three times. that you're runing for governor and that you've proposed a legislation and that you've proposed an al terntive. >> exactly. why would we not want a solution to this? >> we do want a solution. i want eyou to answer my -- >> that happened today. please answer my question. >> actually, that's not correct. don, you're not correct on that.
the judge did not say that this will become a downloadble form. he did not say -- >> the judge took her name off of the form. >> he did not say that it would be filed. >> the name was taken off the forms and thef been giving the forms out without her name only the form. >> yes, but this is not addressing the issue in the state of kentucky. my job will not be to deal in hypotheticals. my job will not be to comment on television shows. my job as governor of this state is going to be addressing real life situations with real people. and in this instance, that means finding equal protection under the law so that those who have the ability to marry are able to do so. and those who have constitutional rights don't have those suppressed as an effort of elevating the rights of others. it's not one or the other. there can be equal protection under the law. this is what i'm calling for.
i have never heard one negative word, not one negative word from kim davis or any other clerks about homosexuals. all the violent commentary has come from the other side directed at her. and i would challenge any of your listeners and yourself to find anything the other way around. >> i appreciate your time on the show. thank you so much for joining us. now i want to bring in allen dirchowitz. thank you so much. what do you make of his comments? >> well, he has a point. that we should always try to accommodate people's religious believes. and, here, there was a possibility of accommodating it. the court could have simply ordered that there be marriages that are valid, lever it to the kentucky authorities to decide how to make them valid. i want to put a question to your listeners and to the lawyer, as
well. would she be as much of a rock star if she refused to marry divorced people? and that's a prohibition of the new testament. jesus was actually firmer in his prohibition against remarriage after divorce than he was about gay marriage, which he didn't comment on. would she be as much of a rock star if she had refused to marry divorced couples? ofrg not. so there's an element of bigotry. this is all about gay people and the strong opposition to gay marriage in some parts of the country. and let's face that reality. people use religion as a cup board for big op e ot ri. you're an salutely right. this is no different where the marriage is constitutional required. and if the state of virginia, in that case, had tried to fool
around by saying well, the clerk won't do it, but maybe her assistant will, nobody would have tolerated that. and we can't tolerate this, as well. gay people have to be able to get married. i'm glad the judge actually took her out of jail where she was a martyr and now, let's sure we enforce the law and make sure that gay people can get married without any hesitation and without any roadblocks. >> let's be clear about what the law of the land is and what the constitution says and what she's accused of breaking, allen. what is it? >> the constitution now says that it is forbidden for any state to deny gay people the right to marriage. now, your prooefrs gueevious gu there's a difference between ruling and the law. since marbury versus madison in the first part of the 18th century, we have made no
distinction between legislation and rulings of the court. the rulings of the court are the law of the land. and under the supreme sill clause, the state of kentucky must obey the rulings. he makes an analogy to dread scott. the better analogy is, you know, governor wall lass standing and blocking schools from being segregated: and then, too, the supreme court just you shall shoed a ruling. that was the law of the mand eland. >> i understand from my producers that matt bevin is listening and he wants to respond to what you're saying. go ahead. >> sure. my question to mr. derchowitz and i have great respect to your knowledge of the law. but do you think it was appropriate for state level o fishes or, for that matter, for the president of the united states to stand in defiance of the dread scott decision?
do you think that it was appropriate for people to have rather than done so, comply with the law? would you have rathered that the president and every state including those abolitionist states have stood there and taken it because it was the law of the land. do you think in any way, shape or form they had any right under the tenth amendment to stand on their ability as sovereign states in defieing that order in 1857? >> no, i think if you want to defie and order of the supreme court, you do what martin luther king did. you go to jail. or you do it conscientious objectives do. you don't serve in the army. the one thing you can't do, you can be the agree to serve in the army if you're a conscientious objector and then refuse an order. she should resign from her job because she can't fulfill her job. she should take another job. a job that dunt require her to vie wlat the law. that would be the prince 38
thing to do. but it is not principle to say that she is allowed an exception under the constitution to follow the law of the land. under dread scott, we needed to fight a civil war. that's not the paradigm. >> mr. derchowitz, you've understood very well. you understand very well when i ask you a question sdsh. >> quickly, we're almost out of time. >> you don't think it's appropriate. >> i don't believe she should have gone to jail. >> that's where i beg to differ with you. >> you're talking about war and civil disobedience. i'm talking about law. the rule of law applies. if you want to elect governor huckabee to be the next president, nominees of the supreme court who could change the rules. but you cannot simply disobey the law.
and i would urge people not to vote for governor who is a law violator. >> thank you, gentlemen. when we come back, donald trump gets a lesson in enthusiastic reception. we'll tell you what happened. plus, the always out spoken wendy williams is here. wait until you hear what she has to say about donald trump.
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cnn kentucky today was incredible after kim davis was released after five days of jail. listen to what he said. >> but i've already told them that if somebody needs to go to jail, i'm willing to go in her place. and i mean that. because i'm tired of watching people being just harassed because they believe something. of their faith. >> here with me now, usa today columnist bob becco and republican strategist rick wilson. katrina,extraordinary day, including that last interview. what did you make of davis and the supporters today. and ted cruz being in the crowd
and mike huckabee. >> i think there are a lot of people who are somewhat holding the status up as representative for christian values. i personally look at it completely differently. because what i see is we are holding her to this level because she is this elected official who's refusing to follow a law that just was pulled out of thin air, by the way. but we're not talking about all the other elected officials that have not been enforcing federal law that has been law for a very long time. and people are dying. children are being killed because elected officials are not following the law and they're not being put into jail. and i'm just curious to know why we're not having that conversation? >> republicans are usually the party in order. republicans are the law and order, smaller government, abide by the constitution. then why not do it in this case? >> well, because part of the law and order is the first amendment. this freedom of religion situation.
there were just asking for reasonable accountability. like i said, this is a brand new law. instead of having that discussion on how might we accommodate this woman considering we provide adom dagss for all other religions at work. they didn't. they went straight to jail. and that's the problem. >> all right. so not everyone agrees with mike huckabee, though. and with ted cruz. i want you to listen to some of the other gop reaction. >> look, everybody's entitled to their opinion. and i love mike huckabee and what he stands for. i just think there's bigger fish to fry here in terms of the issue of people understanding what faith and god really means. >> what i would do with this woman is move her to another job where this is not objection for her. we have to follow the law. >> she is sworn to uphold the law. it seems to me there ought to be common ground. there ought to be big enough space for her to act on her
conscience and for now that the law is the law of the land. >> i'm a very, very strong believer in christianity and religion. but i will say that this was not the right job for her. >> so then what does this mean for the rest of the gop for this race right now? >> look, i think this is a microcosm of some of the dynamics that have come out of the supreme court decision. and, look, i think most of the field looks at this with a two-track question. first is the legitimate questions of conscious and of religious liberty. the second is as a government official, you are sworn to uphold the law. i wish that government officials like hillary clinton had followed the law on her secret e-mail server. i wish that in d.c. and chicago, government officials followed the law that you have to issue gun licenses. i wish that people would adhere to the law. and if they exercise their rights of conscious, then, like
martin luther king did, sometimes civil disobedience lands you in jail. and that's an honorable sacrifice. if she believes in this with all of her heart, and she clearly does, this is the kind of thing you have to expect. we don't live in a culture where civil disobedience is a zero sum game. it costs you something. and it doesn't demean the questions surrounding this. did they go from 0 to 60 and put her in jail right away? yeah. katrina and i actually agree on something for once. they went very quickly to the highest of the sanction. >> rather than working this through. >> we get where you're going. bob, can we move on now? >> with all due respect, this woman should get another job. she had to know that there would be gay couples coming to get licenses.
but the fact that the gop candidates all had to respond and take a day out of their campaign is just another example of what happens when you get the far right people like huckabee and cruz to pull you into that conversation. but, anyway, the trump. what about the trump? >> he's going to be on "the view" on thursday. hillary clinton is going to be on "ellen" tomorrow. should we expect to see more of these nontraditional media appearances because they are competing with someone who is dynamic as donald trump? >> oh, sure. let's remember. it was bill clinton who got himsz out of a very deep political hole by playing a very bad saxophone with jay leno. >> i think it was arsenio hall. >> e with're finding out for example on "the daily show" about 40% of young people in
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candidatings gearing up for our cnn debate. they'll get some tough questions from our next guest. the author of the queen, the epic ambition of hillary clinton and the coming of the second clinton era. that's quite a name for a book. >> thank you, hugh. good to see you. so let's start off with the good news. that's under this news. i'm sure you know about it. i'm sure you're championing about about her use of a private e-mail server. here's what she told abc news. >> did you make a mistake? >> i did. i did. as i said, it was allowed.
and there was no hiding it. it was a lot of people who knew i was using a personal e-mail. but i'm sorry that it has raised all of these questions. i do take responsibility from having made what was clearly not the best decision. >> hearing this policy, has nick changed for you? >> no, because it was not allowed. clearly prohibits the knowing retention classified information in an unsecure facility other than information facility is skipped. mrs. clinton won't sit down with someone who has tough questions like me. i had lindsey graham on today for half an hour.
she clearly vie lated and this will not let her continue in this campaign much longer. if -- it may be three or four months, but as this goes on, she sinks deeper and deeper because the american people sbut that she is hiding a lot. >> she is taking a hit in the polls. i have to ask you this. let's talk about dontd trump. you interviewed him on your radio show. this is a quote from him. third rated, you asked gotchya questions. in is now the second time that this month that you two have had a beef. so you said he didn't have the temperament to be president. what is going on with you. do you think that he's going to be coming for you during this debate? no, and bob beckble has said much worse things. and you know the loyal things.
i understand that. i give him credit. he answered all of my questions. i didn't stump trump. some people didn't like his answers, but he was on for 20 minutes. that was the first question. he just didn't like it. that's fine. we have to in our business learn to take criticism and reflect upon it and make sure that we don't repeat it. if you have questions he had asked and been answered six times on my show. and i work for ronald reagan for five and a half years. president reagan often got stumped and he laughed them off. george bush dealt with them differently. i think the best thing to do is to make sure you hear the question. because i pretty sure and that most of the rest of the interview went very well. >> you're absolutely right. so this person is coming after you. i'm always, like, get in line. every day is a different day, right? so do you take this criticism as
a badge of honor? go ahead. >> i want to listen to critics. i think that media people, whether they're conservative like me or down the middle journalists like you or someone on the level like katrina,they have to listen to critics. they have to be very careful that they're overdone or underdone. if enough people, there's an old irish saying, i said this on meet the press yesterday, if everybody says you're drunk, you better sit down. but you know what, i don't want to get close to that clip. the purpose of next wednesday's debate is to let republican primary volters know who is going to be the best kajd dat to beat hillary clinton and who is going to be the best commander in chief.
i want you to listen to this. there are domestic issues that must be dealt with, as well. this is what donald trump said earlier. >> i think they're trouble. i think they're looking for trouble. i looked at a couple of the people that were interviewed from the group. i saw them with hate coming down the street rast week, talking about cops and police and what should be done to them. and that was not good. and i think it's a disgrace that they're getting away with it. i think it's disgraceful the way they're being katerered to by the democrats t v. and it's going to end up kicking them you know where. i don't think it's going to end up good. the fact is, all lives matter. >> are you going to talk domestic issues like that? >> my intention is to focus on national security and foreign policy, don. i'll tell you why.
four million syrians on the move because of a december pit who was not rebuked at the time he crossed the red line. a million libyans are on the move because hillary clinton's foreign policy collapsed in libya. my intention for the republican primary is to make sure they focus on -- and religious freedom issues. those people are freeing because of christians, hundreds and thu sands of christians: i am not going to go where i don't want to go. i want to stay on national security and religious liberty. you know what, jake and dana may have a different agenda, minus national and foreign policy. >> we'll have to wait until next week. >> thank you, hugh. >> thank you, don. >> coming up, believe it or not, my next guest has a key to getting along with donald trump
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. there is no topic too hot for wendy williams. season 7 of the wendy williams show starts on monday. and she is here. so fasten your seat belts. so good to have you on my show, finally. >> i'm glad to be here, don. >> and we always do the hot topics. you discuss everything. you make news on your show. >> yes, and, unfortunately, it's not necessarily something that's good. >> well, i think this one is good, though. i'm talking about donald trump. do you remember when donald trump was on your show back in december? you asked him about running for president. watch this. >> if i run for president, i can't do it. >> here we go again. >> no, i'm telling you. if i run, i can't do it. you're not allow today have a show if you're running for political office. i don't know why. but, look. look at the sign. look at the sign. trump -- >> oh, my gosh.
>> he clearly put that there on purpose. >> do you think he did? >> no, i had no idea. i forget. we had done so many shows. but i love donald trump. he's a friend to the show. and if he wins, then that will be my first time ever going to the white house. >> you two get along really well. why do people like -- average americans like him. >> yeah. >> you know, i honestly think that his campaign has more legs than i thought that it would. because donald -- see, we understand him here in the new york tristate area. we are say it like we mean it kind of people. and that's probably why he and i get along so well. we tread around each other, but we don't step on each other. and, for donald, i am shocked. he's very entertaining and very engaging.
>> would you vote for him? >> no. >> why not. even though you like him? >> there is nobody in the running yet that i have to say about. not even hillary clinton. wendy, you're at a loss for words? >> no, i'm not at a loss. but sometimes it's better just to give a look than to say something. i'm not impressed by anybody yet. joe biden? no. >> he hasn't committed. he already said that he has to see what about what his family says. and i think that, you know, with the laws that the bidens have, you know, recently had to go through with their son and everything, it's probably best that he just retires along with obama. >> speaking of people who are who they are, kim davis, we've been talking about it here earlier. ted cruz down in the rally in kentucky.
she is a clerk. that's a sizzling hot topic. something that you would discuss on your show. what do you feel about that? >> i feel she has the right to her opinion and got away with something that shouldn't be get away withble. i mean, listen, if i'm going to say it like i mean it, then i expected everyone else to say it like they mean it, also. if you dish it out, you should be able to take it. >> when we were on the panel, we've been talking about black lives matter, about police around the country and, you know, brutality. you're not afraid to discuss those. what do you think of the black lives matter movement. >> i think that black lives
matter is bigger than a movement. that needs to be something that's taught from household to household in this country. it's a shame that at this point, we have to make a movement about black lives mattering. as the daughter of a black man. as the wife of a black man. as the mother of a 15-year-old black boy. yeah, black lives do matter. do i need to be part of a campaign to bring that home to my family? no. not at all. but, final, you do what you want. >> yeah. >> there's a sense now after the recent incidents that police say that they are underfire, as well. and their lives matter. do you think that they're under fire? >> yes. but i also believe that police, not all of you, how are you doing, cops, but i do think that there are good cops and bad cops. and there are cops out there that don't believe that the life of a 15-year-old black boy named kevin hunter matters.
and i do believe that in teaching in our individual households, it will make a little bit of a difference. we tell our son, if you get stopped by the cops, take your hands out of your pocket, pull the hood off of your head,talk with your handsout. yes, sir, no, sir, whatnot. it doesn mean that he won't get his behind beat by some salty cop. what are you going to do? >> i think we feel the same way. it can happen regardless of what we do. you're not going to win in that situation. >> right. so just shut your mouth. just shut your mouth and go along with it. it's not just black men. i have a talk show. everybody doesn't recognize me when they stop me. i've been stopped before. hands on 10 and 2. you sit there and you wait. excuse me, officer, why did you stop ne? . i'll get to that in a moment. ma'am.
license and registration. okay, here i go. i'm going into the glove compartment. and that's how you do it. it doesn't mean that it's right. it doesn't mean that you're going to get shot. but you do what you can. >> what a mess. >> when we come back, we'll talk about venus and serena. black women in the public eye with wendy williams. don't go anywhere.
she and her sister are facing off for the fifth time. they're doing really well. do you know them? >> no, i don't -- well, venus has been on the show before. i've never met serena. both lovely. it's got to be really difficult playing your sister. part of you is saying no matter who wins, the williamss win. on the other hand, if i were to play my sister in a game, i'd want to beat her. >> ajt they, like you, tran sent race. you're about to start, as we said, season 7 of your talk show. >> yeah, i'm so excited. >> but what are you going to do this season? >> we're in a few new segmenteds, don. nothing to really change the the lands scape of the show. hot topics will be as long as ever. ask wendy will still be as scandalous as ever. and i'm just there to have a good time.
i love hot talk. i love it. what would be your hot talk topic today if you did it? would it be kim davis? >> i'm not sure. >> is that too serious for your show? >> it might be donald trump, too. >> but donald will be -- donald and what he's doing will out live kim davis. >> is this part of your clothing line? >> yes. august the stuff on hsn, my wendy williams collection, and everything is under a hon drill dollars. i bereave, as a woman, that your clothes can turn on you. why should you spend a lot of money on clothes. every friday night at nine:00. i'm producing and narrating it. you know on the id channel, everyone ends up debt. . >> we call it the murder channel. we had another one in the fall, i forget what the name of it
was. but something really good. it was good. i love you, wendy. you're an inspiration. you know that. >> thank you, don. >> keep saying it like you mean it. wendy williams, we'll be right back. we stop arthritis pain, so you don't have to stop. tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain has two layers of pain relief. the first is fast. the second lasts all day. we give you your day back. what you do with it is up to you. tylenol®. when your windshield needs for these parents, driving. around was the only way... ...to get their baby to sleep. so when their windshield got cracked, we can't drive this car they wanted it fixed right... ...so they scheduled with safelite. our exclusive trueseal technololgy means a strong... ...reliable bond, every time. at safelite we stand behind our work... night, night little buddy. ...because the ones you love, sit behind it. 6 we live in a pick and choose world.
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vrjt it's important for you to know a few key facts. my dwrus of a personal e-mail account. and nothing i ever sent or received was marked classified at the time. i know this is a complex story. i could have and should have done a better job answering questions earlier. i'm 0 for your support and i'm not taking anything for granted.