tv Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown CNN October 2, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
this is cnn tonight, i'm don lemon. sheriff john hanlin says the gunman was enrolled in the class where the shooting took place. investigators find six weapons on the campus and seven more at the gunman's home. all the guns are legal. and true to his vow to politicize gun violence, president barack obama says this. >> it's because of politics. it's because of interest groups fund campaigns, feed people fear, and in fairness, it's not just in the republican party, although the republican party is just uniformly opposed all gun safety laws. >> let's begin tonight with dan simon at the public safety center in roseburg, oregon. dan, bring us up to date on this investigation. >> reporter: well, don, authorities at this point are not publicly discussing motive
or what may have been going on in this young man's life. they do say he possessed an incredible amount of fire power. at the school, they found six guns. at his house that he shared with his mother, they found seven weapons. there was also a flak jacket at the scene. a flak jacket that actually had body armour. there were five magazine clips. so clearly, when you add it all up, this is somebody who was prepared for battle. he was intent on killing a lot of people and apparently took steps to protect himself. don? >> thank you very much. now i want to turn to the hero of the oregon campus shooting. when chris mintz heard gunfire, he jumped into action trying to save lives. his aunt says he tried to keep the gunman from getting in and was shot three times. he looked at the gunman and said it's my son's birthday today and he was shot once more.
his friend mike joins me now on the phone. thank you so much for joining us. i understand that you visited him in the hospital. we're getting reports that he was shot seven times. some say four or three times. how is he doing and what are his injuries? >> he is doing really well under the circumstances. he's a positive person in general. i was there when he rolled out of surgery last night. he identified me. we kind of waited a little bit, then went in the room and just talked a little bit. he had several friends there along with me. but his parents are as good as can be expected. obviously saddened like everybody else. i think i can speak for all of us, pretty clear to us that he's
sad. he's ready to start his journey on the road to recovery for sure. >> did he tell you how many times he was shot? >> he actually -- when i got there, his girlfriend told me -- we all thought at one point -- there's a lot of stuff flying around obviously. obviously a lot of people are hearing five. he was shot seven times. >> he was shot seven times according to his girlfriend who's there. what did he talk to you about? >> you know, he was kind of in and out. when he rolled out of recovery -- i'm a coach here locally. so i'm kind of known to him as coach mike. when he rolled out, he looked and said, hey, it's coach mike, still a little out of it from anesthesia. that was the initial conversation. then we all sat around and were just so happy that he was here with us. we let him kind of do a lot of the talking.
there was some emotion and obviously as you can possibly imagine, a lot of emotion in the room. i guess words just couldn't be spoken. i mean, we were all so glad that he was -- he was still here with us. >> lot of people we talk to when this happens, they run away from the gunfire. he and several other people ran towards it. he's truly a hero because he actually got involved and he was there, right, in the action to save lives in this classroom. tell us about chris, about his personality that would make him do something like this. >> well, he's a soldier. any one of us who's a soldier, that's kind of what is expected of us. that's kind of what chris is trained to do. not a shock at all. he's a very intense guy. he's 110% into, you know, into his physical fitness. one of the things i told someone
earlier, one of the coolest things i know about chris is he's a really, really super good dad. and, you know, i don't know if that answers your question. he just loves that boy so much and i think that drives him to be who he is. i really do. >> he said it's my son's birthday today, after he had been shot and was still trying to help out. >> yeah, i mean obviously probably trying to talk some sense into the guy, you know, seeing if he had a conscience. obviously we all know he did not. and, you know, maybe try to see if the guy had a heart. clearly we all know now that -- that obviously didn't -- it wasn't the case. >> he served, mike, he served in the army, chris did, ten years. what did you think when you heard that he had been shot here at home? >> at first, i was at work when
i found out, you know, with the staff that we all work with. he works in that facility as well on the night crew. when we all found out, i know my face turned white probably. and, you know, at first i was very, like, i think scared. and then i realized who we were talking about. some guy was telling the reporter earlier, kind of a peace wednesday over me. i know his intense personality definitely came in handy today, or yesterday. this peace came over me, i know he's going to be okay. i was glad he was in surgery. i don't know. it was -- i wasn't afraid that he wasn't going to make it. and you would think under the circumstances that, you know, some people with seven gunshots probably aren't going to make it. i just knew he was going to be okay. >> will you give chris and his family our condolences -- not
our condolences, tell him we're thinking about them and we wish him the very best. >> i will do that for you. want to bring in sarah side ner now. she learned more about the sheriff and his views on gun control. he is really on the spotlight and making statements about not saying the shooter's name. we're going to get to that in a minute. first, you witnessed the victims bodies being returned to roseburg earlier tonight. what can you tell us about that, on those helicopters? >> reporter: it was an incredibly poignant moment. the terribly sad as people stood watching as a black hawk helicopter brought in the bodies from portland. all of the bodies were taken to portland to do the autopsies there and do them quickly. this was really a service to the families. the governor deciding to activate the national guard, the national guard doing their duty
and going to pick up all of the bodies and bring them back here. all of the victims' bodies. they did not, however, pick up the shooters body. when we saw the gurneys coming to the actual helicopter, you could feel right there the poignancy of the moment. you could feel right then the heavy hearts of the people here. and then one by one they loaded the bodies up onto gurneys and wut them into vans and drove away. we do understand the funeral homes were there to take bodies to the funeral homes. the families will for the first time see their loved ones back and be able to finally bury them, don. >> as you mentioned earlier here on cnn, we don't usually see this unless we have soldiers whose bodies are being brought back from war zones. the sheriff there has become central to the story. you spent some time looking into his story today. what did you find?
>> reporter: you know, he has a strong personality. he is front and center, at the head of all of the press conferences, giving information, telling people what they need to know, and very concerned about his community. opinions and some of his stances have been criticized and are controversial. here's a little bit more about why controversy is now surrounding what a lot of people say is a new person on the national stage. thrust onto the national stage after the massacre at umpqua community college, john hanlin talks tough and isn't afraid to share his opinion. >> i will not name the shooter. i will not give him the credit he probably sought prior to this horrific and cowardly act. >> reporter: his stance on the shooter, cheered by many. but some of his other pleefs are
putting him smack dab in the middle of the fight over gun control. a letter he sent to vice president joe biden one month after the shooting at sandy hook elementary gives everyone a good look at his unwaiving stance on gun control. it says in part, gun control is not the answer to preventing heinous crimes like school shootings. but now a mass shooting has hit him at home. so we asked him about his thoughts as the entire country asks, why is this happening in america yet again and what will stop it. >> can you talk to me about your stance on the fact that you feel like gun control's not a potential answer -- >> i understand your interest in that and i can appreciate that you have an interest in my position. but like i've said a number of times this morning, we are focusing on getting this investigation completed. >> reporter: but he did talk to us about a controversial post on
his facebook page that is also getting attention now. long before the umpqua college shooting, he reposted a viral video. that video devlves into conspiracy theory regarding the sandy hook shooting. he writes, this makes me wonder who we can trust anymore, and goes onto say, watch, listen, and keep an open mind. did you post it? >> no. >> reporter: you didn't post it? >> no. i know what you're referring to. that's not a conspiracy theory belief that i have. >> reporter: so you hear him say that that is not a belief of his, that this conspiracy theories that surrounded the sandy hook elementary school shooting. to his credit, he has spent much of his time trying to deal with the grieving families. and today, he named off all nine of the victims finally letting
the public know who indeed died and giving stories of who they were and messages from their family members. it has been a really, really difficult day. another one here in this area. and because of the umpqua college campus shooting. don? >> sarah, thank you very much. we've got a lot more on the sheriff when we come back. and the president says we should politicize gun control and now in the wake of this latest mass shooting, the candidates are at odds over guns in america. as you look at the white house now flags are at half staff because of the victims in this shooting. i'm going to talk to a leading conservative next. ♪ the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight.
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so you heard sarah reporting on the sheriff who found himself in the spotlight in the wake of this oregon campus shooting. sheriff hanlin's views on gun control not what some people might have expected. he said gun control is not the answer. and then there was that controversial video he reposted on his facebook page, one that advanced a sandy hook conspiracy theory. i want to bring in van jones, cnn political contributor and former obama administration official. i want each of you to react to sarah's reporting about the sheriff. van, you first. >> listen, obviously he didn't expect to be the center of a global news story. i do think that he is wrong when he says that gun control doesn't matter. listen, we've heard over and over again these arguments that
crooks are not going to obey these laws. what we know is rules do matter. when we lowered the speed limit, there were fewer traffic fatalities. with the only country still doing this, we need to not worry about this one sheriff and his particular set of views, but recognize a whole bunch of bogus arguments being put forward by the nra. 87% of nra members agree that we need common sense gun reform. that's the real problem here. >> this is a letter, right, that he wrote to the vice president during his initiative against gun violence. he said gun control is not the answer to preventing heinous crimes like school shootings. any federal regulation enacted by congress or executive order of the president offending the right of my citizens shall not be enforced by me or my deputies. is that playing politics?
>> i think it's playing politics and he has a duty to uphold the law. even this supreme court that's gone very, very far, almost off the rails for gun rights, still says that some regullation regu legal. so, yes, congress and the president can act. for a law enforcement officer sworn to uphold the constitution to say ahead of time he won't do that is very, very troubling. you have the nra that's poisoned our debate. 87% of their members agree that they should do something different. and they're more interested in seeing the money coming. >> james, you're from this area, what do you think about that and what van is saying? >> first of all, quick shoutout to the cops that stopped this shooter. a lot of people don't realize during an active shooter, they have a 40% chance of getting shot. so they're heros too along with chris mintz.
this is where i was born and raised. we have a very strong rural environment where a lot of people use weapons to go hunt and fish and for self protection. now what mr. jones keeps talking about is all the violence that's happening. little do people realize, there's over a million people in 2004 that use weapons to protect themselves. when jones talks about how the nra is talking about taking money from big lobbyists and guns and all, major firearm dealers, you should also realize in 2008, the nra and pro -- gun advocate groups only gave about $2.5 million to federal candidates. however, lawyers and law firms -- that was 1% -- >> what are you saying, james? >> when we start politicizing this, you're not talking about the facts. and the facts are that 959,000 people in 2000 were protected by using firearms.
now, we have got to get away from just saying guns are bad. we have -- we've been -- >> but james -- james, i have to say this. i don't think people are saying guns are bad. i think that is a talking point how people are reading on the other side. i think they're saying it's time our gun laws and who's allowed to purchase a gun and how long of awaiting period that is that that should be looked at again and that we need to tweak the gun laws. i don't think anybody is saying guns are bad. law enforcement officers. i think that your logic is flawed by saying -- you're putting a blanket statement by saying most people say guns are bad. >> so what is reasonable gun control -- >> that's what we need to talk about. >> we should also talk about too is the mental health. why can't people cope anymore. that's one thing we should really talk about. what is wrong with these individuals that can't cope that they have to rely on shooting
people? you see this with the internet, facebook, all the social media. we talk about gun control -- we have 271 -- >> what is reasonable gun control? what does that look like? >> first of all, 40% of all the guns purchased this past year, there was no background check whatsoever. there's not a single hunter or fisher person or any -- anybody in the country that thinks that's a very good idea. you have people now starting to fight back in very smart ways. there will be a ballot measure in maine and also in nevada to try to get universal background checks. they got that done in washington state. it worked out just perfectly fine. you also have groups like the agenda project saying you've got to get rid of the head of the nra because he is taking this organization such a negative direction. there's a documentary being put forward by a group called brave new films to try to pull the mask off.
everybody wants the hunters to have their rights. this group representing the hunters has been taken over by big money people. common sense stuff is being stopped. the democracy has been hijacked. most republicans want there to be more reform and we can't get it done and it's wrong. >> everyone agrees that you should be able to protect yourself. that's a part of my family, part of my -- >> i'm from tennessee. >> yeah. so listen, gentlemen, i appreciate you. we're out of time. coming up, in the wake of the oregon campus shooting, the battle over gun control is erupting on the campaign trail. and the candidates are at odds over what america should do. a leading conservative is going to weigh in coming up.
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welcome back. the mass shooting in oregon is forcing the candidates to face some very tough questions on guns in america. president barack obama making no secret of his views. want you to listen to what he said today. >> here you've got majority of the american people think it's the right thing to do. background checks, other common sense steps that would maybe save some lives.
couldn't even get a full vote. and why is that? it's because of politics. it's because interest groups fund campaigns, feed people fear, and in fairness, it's not just in the republican party, although the republican is party is just uniformly opposed all gun safety laws. >> so what does hugh hewitt think of that? thank you for coming in on a friday. doing okay? >> i am. thank you for having me, don. >> the president says that guns are the problem and republicans are blocking solutions and he says he wants to politicize this. what is your reaction? >> i think republican candidates should do three things. they should mourn with those who mourn first and foremost.
secondly, they should denounce the president's demagoguery and lack of specificity and refuse to engage his strong man arguments. and three, they ought to agree to engage and review every specific proposal put forward to deal with a specific incident. i think if your audience will go to the minnesota gun owners political action committee, they will see the 13 usually proposed common sense gun control measures and the last dozen mass casualty atrocities in the united states. and they will see that none of those so-called common sense gun control measures would have prevented even one of these terrible atrocities. >> why do you say that? >> because they don't. for example, the killer in oregon owned 14 weapons, all of which were obtained from federally registered gun dealers legally. so none of the proposals that the president adopts would have
done anything to stop this tragedy. so i think the problem the president has, he's all talk and no ideas. he's all emotion and no reason. he's absolutely all politics and no solutions. and i think the american people with disgusted with it. i watched your show last night, don. i watched his entire statement a second time. i believe it was the low moment of his presidency. and i'd a ask the american people to ask why would they believe any solution the president has on guns is any better than any solution he hasn't had on syria. the answer is, he's out of ideas. >> you said sensible gun proposal, you said would have stopped the oregon shooter. so then what type of legislation, what type of laws or proposals would have stopped this shooter? >> see, i don't know. i am willing to entertain any specific proposal directed at any specific atrocity. i today invite add gun control
advocate who accepted last night and then didn't want to come on the show. i would have asked van jones this requequestion. what specific proposal are you advocating that would have stopped any of the last 12 atrocities. i watched last night your every town advocate and all of the proposals he puts forward. i'm willing to look at them. i don't know any republican candidate who isn't. but i'm unwilling to indull nl the emotive i pe-- appeal of th president. it's bankrupt ideology substituting itself for an honest discussion of what would and would not work. if mrs. clinton or president obama wants to come forward and argue for con physician skags of weapons, that won't work. >> that would be tough to do.
i've been wanting to hear what you had to say about jeb bush. he ended up in hot water today. he said this. >> i have this challenge as governor because we have -- look, stuff happens. there's always a crisis. and the impulse is always to do something and it's not necessarily the right thing to do. >> later, he was asked to clarify and he said things happened all the time. is that better? what do you think? >> i believe it's a nonstory for governor bush. ryan is a reporter for the "new yorker." jeb bush pushed back. he said, ryan, i'm not going to argue with you about the semantics. i'm talking about various kinds of tragedies. when a shooting incident occurs do we pass gun laws that don't do anything. i think the american people are tired of the attempt, for example, kevin mccarthy who's going to be the new speaker was attacked for politicizing the
benghazi hearings two days ago. president obama is not attacked for avowedly politicizing the oregon shootings today. i think people are onto this. they're looking for authentic conversation between serious people and they're looking for the problem. it may be an unsolvable problem and the left manipulates issues like -- >> do you think kevin mccarthy was taken out of context? it sounded like he was saying this benghazi committee was put together to bring -- >> that was mainstream media spin. kevin mccarthy pointed out that the effect of the benghazi hearings has been to lower the esteem of the american people of the former secretary of state's truthfulness. if you ask the prosecutors on that committee, it is not their motivation to bring down mrs.
clinton or to lower poll effects. it is the consequences of her deception that has led to the untrustworthiness of which she is held by the american people. the attempt to spin all of these things into political hits on the republicans is not working. because the american people know, for example, syria is in collapse. there is a destruction of the middle east that has occurred on this president's wachl. try as he might to change the subject, it's not working. they know that this administration is out of gas. >> let's talk about this. we've talked a lot about guns, right? let's talk now about mental health issues, mentally ill people. only this country has such a problem when it comes to shootings. how does one explain that? we don't have a bigger problem when it comes to mental health issues than any other country. >> if one takes a look at iraq wherein the caliphate has been established, there are a lot of
angry young men with guns burning people in cages -- >> you're talking about war-torn country -- >> and you look tenat the norwen shooter. the answer that those countries have put forward is gun confiscation. any specific proposal that is put forward to answer any of the specific crimes i'll debate all day long. but not a general one about mental health. i was the one that asked the question, i asked it of jeb bush, what do you do about mental health, at what point do you engage, ought there to be a hearing before a court, or ought there to be a noncourt supervised seizure of a weapon. difficult issue. doesn't often get discussed. we talked about it on the cnn salem debate. jeb bush had a good answer and
so did senator cruz. >> what i got out of this is that you think that maybe gun confiscation would help. >> gun confiscation is very effective but the american people don't want it. coming up, president barack obama challenged the media to compare the number of american deaths from terrorism to the number of deaths due to gun violence. we did and we're going to have those numbers for you next. when you're not confident your company's data is secure,
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hours after the mass shooting op the campus of umpqua community college, president obama issued a challenge to the media. count up the number of americans killed through terrorist attacks in the last decades and gun violence and post the results side by side. so here are the numbers for you. 316,000 deaths by firearms on u.s. soil. 313 american deaths by tricerrom and that is beyond american soil. buck sexton is the national security editor at "the blaze." buck, the question is, do you think gun violence should be
treated like domestic terror? >> no, definitely not. the cia's counter terrorism center. so i've seen both of these issues. any chart that starts without september 11th talking about terrorism is obviously trying to hide something. part of what it's hiding and part of what that chart doesn't show you is all of the attacks that has been ththwarted. we're doing a massive amount to combat gun violence. we're doing it through countless regulations and laws and -- >> you think massive amount -- listen, look at the number of people who are killed in big cities every single night, every single day. when you look at that, you think we're doing massive amounts.
>> i didn't say we were succeeding -- >> buck, isn't success, isn't that the goal? so we could be spinning our wheels and we're not doing anything. >> you'd have to start to define what that is. to say that terrorism is not a threat. there's one thing to say -- >> no one is saying terrorism is not a threat. >> that chart is supposed to show terrorism -- >> i think that chart is to compare. we talk about terrorism so much. we put so much stock into we have to stop them on their soil before they get to our soil. it's awful that it happens, but far more people die from gun violence. >> and we can do something about gun violence. every social scientist understands that if we had realistic gun control in this country, we could reduce gun
violence. politically, we can't do it. we can do something about it. we have to change the culture. we have to change the politics. we can't stop the 300 acts of terrorism. we have done everything we can to reduce terrorism. we haven't even begun to approach the problem of gun violence. that's why the president's right when he talks about the hundreds of thousands of people comed to the single digits numbers of people. >> well, i think you're comparing apples with oranges here. these statistics are misleading. i agree what was said before. we're not even taking into consideration the people that were killed in 9/11 in these statistics. the fact that new gun laws are not going to make a difference in the current situation. look at chicago. look at the gun laws in illinois are some of the most stringent
in the nation. the city of chicago is under siege with shootings and murders. so having a new set of laws or initiating a new set of laws is not the answer here. >> yeah. how do you explain -- >> everyone keeps saying 9/11. we took the last decade of usable data. >> to leave out 9/11 is sort of to place the whole thing out of context. >> still doesn't add up to -- >> that is true. first of all, these are different things flatly. these are not the same thing. when you look at what would happen if some of these terrorist threats were not addressed and went through to fruition. we could be talking about a mushroom cloud over a u.s. city. the shootings are going to happen. it does happen in other countries by the way. when you look at this as a function of laws, people play
this game of comparing us to some countries or they look at different u.s. states or they leave out vermont which has open gun laws and almost no gun crime. there is ibt -- intelecual inconsist sit. >> we were prepared to diminish personal liberty. the only personal liberty we're not prepared to diminish in this country is gun ownership. that's the one that's sacred. people in american, particularly people on the right, think gun ownership is more important -- >> there is people on the left too. >> it's mostly on the right. >> he's leaving out laws against for example, straw man purchases, taking things across state lines.
>> it's nothing compared to what europe has and what other countries have, and they have far, far fewer gun deaths. it's the reality. gun laws matter. taking guns away from people who have mental illness. taking guns away from people who shouldn't own guns is a high priority. yes, it's politically very difficult to accomplish -- >> stand by. everyone will -- on the other side of this break. we'll be right back. hold the phone.
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and we're back now. alan, buck sexton and jim maxwell. jim, you were saying? >> on -- >> trying to get -- we were picking up the conversation where we last left off. i thought you wanted to jump in. no? >> i think the focus here should be if we're going to introduce new legislation, we should be looking at the restrictions doctors and medical professionals have when they're treating somebody that's mentally unstable. we should be freeing them up to allow them to raise their hand and report their findings to authorities when they think someone is a danger to themselves or to the public. i think a lot of these issues, especially where the person has displayed violent or potentially
violent behavior. we have to give them the ability to raise their hand and notify the authorities. right now, the way it stands, it's very difficult for people in that position to report people who are potentially dangerous to the public. >> in fact, psychiatrists have an obligation today to report people who are dangerous to themselves or others. the problem is psychiatrists are abysmal at predicting violence. they can create large categories of people and many of the people that commit the violence are in that category. but most the people in that category, don't commit the violence. we went through that in the '50s and '60s. we had overprediction. we should free up psychiatrists and other professionals to report. but then we have to have careful evaluations. we should not put the right to own a gun over the right to be free and not be con finifined i
mental hospital. >> that relies on an individual to go and seek mental health -- >> do you believe that plays into this? >> absolutely mental health plays into this. >> in a -- >> go ahead. >> there's a lot going on -- across the country where people are realizing that mental health is in fact a better place to focus. but when you start mandating the state and getting involved into these sorts of things, it can be a bigger problem than it solves. >> jim? >> it's a very sensitive subject, i agree. since the days of columbine, local and state police departments have gotten very adept at nipping these situations in the bud before they blossom. what they need is enough information from medical professionals to tamake a prope evaluation or assessment.
they have created a threat assessment center. now, that's a first step. but that -- that ability to evaluate someone who's potentially a threat to the public or a threat to a business or a threat to another individual, that skill needs to be honed, developed, and passed onto the state and local authorities. >> we've been trying to develop that skill for many, many years. it's not easy to do. national rifle association and other people like that would sooner confine somebody in a mental hospital or a prison based on a prediction than take away his gun. we have to re-evaluate the difference between taking a way a gun and taking away somebody's freedom. we have to prioritize the elimination of the gun rather than the elimination of the freedom. >> i've got a negative five seconds. >> i don't really understand what the comparison is there.
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in much of india, water scarcity is a way of life. this week's cnn hero found a solution for his homeland by looking to the skies. >> it is that drive in india. in many villages, the ground water is disappearing. wells have dried up. women will have to walk miles to fetch water for their family. they will do thdishes with sando they don't use water. water is so salty, you can
hardly drink it. the only time the people get relief is during the monsoon season. i came to the u.s. working with the corporate world. in 2003, my company went bankrupt. i decided, i'm going to find a solution for the drinking water. the water is collected from the rooftop through gutters and pipes. it's divided in two parts. one part for the homeowner, another part for the family. the main pipe which is buried under the ground. [ speaking foreign language ]
>> today, we are helping 10,000 people live healthier life. you can learn more at cnnheros.com. and meet this year's top ten cnn heros when anderson cooper introduces them on cnn's "new day." that is it for us tonight. i'll see you back here on monday night. have a great weekend. ac 360 starts right now. thanks very much for joining us. i wish i could say good evening to you, but the fact is i can't. a good evening would include nine people sitting down to dinner right about now. a good evening would not have all the people having to say for the first time in their lives, my son was, my sister was, my