tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN October 4, 2015 10:00am-11:01am PDT
obama renewed a call to visit mars? what would be there? hello obama, want a latte? >> liftoff. >> thanks for spending your sunday with us. fareed zakaria gps starts right now. this is gps. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have a terrific show for you today. starting with an important interview with benjamin netanyahu, the prime minister of israel. on syria, and russia, and vladimir putin. >> we certainly don't want an adversarial relationship. >> on the iran deal. >> check your enthusiasm at the door. >> what options are left for its biggest opponent. >> they're trying to encircle
israel with a noose of death. >> on peace in the middle east. are the oslo accords over and done with? >> there's only one way to get a peace process going. you got to sit down and negotiate. >> also former u.s. president bill clinton and the man who has been called the bill clinton of italy. that nation's prime minister on refugees, the economy, and the future of europe. >> finally, you've seen the pizza pulling rat, but i will introduce you to a rat who is far more impressive. but first, here's mistake. vladimir putin has been able to act forcefully in syria, not because he's bold error more decisive than barack obama, but because he has a clearer strategy. he has enemies, the oh opponent
of that government, he supports his ally and fights those enemies. by comparison, washington and the west are fundamentally confused. who is america for in this struggle? we know who it's against, the assad regime. also their principal opponent isis, also all the other jihadi groups fighting in syria, like al nusra. it's also opposed the hezbollah forces. now russia's move is not as brilliant as it's been made out. it's a desperate effort to shore up one of the kremlin's only foreign allies. but at least putin has a coherent plan. the united states by contrast is closely allied with the iraqi government in its fight against militant sunnis in that country, but it finds itself on the same
side of these same militant sunnis just across the border in syria as they battle the assad regime. washington does have some groups at backs. the syrian kurds close to turkey, and the small number of other moderate syrians. if you consider the major groups vying for control of damascus, the united states is against almost all of them, which makes for moral clarity, but strategic incoherence. here's the fund mental problem. then it would own real estate in syria. and who wants to govern that territory, protect the population, and be seen by locals as legitimate. a senior official told me recently, we watched you trying to run iraqi towns, and we will not make america's mistake. if one looks back over the many
american interventions around the globe, one factor looms large. when washington allied with a local force that's capable and viewed as legitimate, it succeeded. without such locals, all the outside effort, aid, fire power and training can only do so much, whether in afghanistan, iraq or syria. if obama's goal is a peaceful, stable, multi-sectarian dcy in syria, then it requires a vast american commitment on the scale of iraq. if not, washington has to accept reality and make some tough choices. the two big ones are whether to stop opposing assad and whether to accept that syria will have to be partitioned. if defeating isis is important, then it has to become the overriding priority allying with any outside forces that will join the fight.
and let's be honest, if asad falls and jihadis take over, that would be worse. that doesn't mean providing assad with support, but allowing him to provide an enclave in syria. they are creating their own safe spaces as well. even if the civil war ends and a country called syria remains, these groups will not live intermingled together ever again. the west has combined maximalist uncompromising rhetoric with minimalist ineffective efforts. it is the gap between those two that is making putin look smart. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed. and let's get started.
israel's prime minister was in new york this week to deliver ta fiery speech on thursday. on friday, i sat down with him to talk about many topics, all hot buttons in the u.n. this week. >> prime minister, pleasure to have you on. >> good to be back with you, fareed. >> you have painted often a situation that israel faces that is pretty tough. but i'm now looking at what's going on in syria. and i see iran all in to try to defend the assad regime. i see hezbollah strained, stressed. there are reports that they've lost hundreds, maybe thousands of fighters. iranian militias are there fighting against isis. aren't your enemies drained and bleeding right now? and doesn't that give you some space in security term sns. >> well, that's not exactly what we see.
what i see is iran pushing into lebanon, into hezbollah as they're fighting for assad, they're putting inside lebanon the most devastating weapons on earth. they're trying to turn iran's -- iran's rockets that they supplied hezbollah into precision guided missiles that can hit any spot in israel. hezbollah is putting in anti-aircraft missiles. anti-ship missiles. that's what we're seeing. and we see iran trying to establish a second front with iranian generals in the golan heights against israel. so we see a different picture. i made it very clear what our policy in syria is. i haven't intervened in the syrian internal conflict. but i said if anybody wants to use syrian territory to attack us, we'll take action. if anybody is trying to build a second front against israel,
we'll take action. if anybody wants to use syrian territory to transfer lethal weapons to hezbollah, we'll take action. >> donald trump says between assad and isis, he thinks assad is better. >> i don't know whose better. what you have there in syria, you've got assad, you've got iran, you've got hezbollah, you've got daesh, isis. these rebels and those rebels and now you've got russia. do you know what's better? i don't know. i know what i have to do to protect the security of israel. i draw red lines and any time we have the intel, we just keep them. we do not let those actions of aggression against israel go unpunished. >> do you think that russia's involvement in syria is potentially stabilizing or
destabilizing? >> i don't know. i think time will tell. but i did go to moscow and spoke very candidly to president putin and just told him exactly what i just told you. i said, these are our policies. we don't want to go back to the days when, you know, russia and israel were in adversarial position. i think we've changed the relationship. and it's on the whole good. it's not like the one we have in the united states. nothing will ever equal that. we certainly don't want an adversarial relationship. we agreed that in a few days' time, our deputy chiefs of staff will meet to make sure that we don't bump into iran. we have different goals. in syria, i defined my goals. they're to protect the security and people of my country. >> you are a man who has often spoken out against aggression, particularly against small
countries. one place you have been studiously quiet is russia's -- what many call aggression, against cry mia. you said, i've got a lot on my plate. you are an international statesman. what is your view of what vladimir putin did in annexing crimea. >> it's very clear we don't approve of this russian action. but i think we're also cognizant of the fact that we have -- we're bordering russia right now. and we are -- israel is a strong country. it's a small, strong country. but we also know that we have to make sure that we don't get into unnecessary conflicts. and we have -- believe me, we have a lot on our plate. i went to moscow to make it
clear that we should avoid a clash between russian forces and israeli forces. that's about as responsible i think and statesmanly as i think we should act at this point. >> what's your view of putin? >> look, there's mutual respect. doesn't mean we have mutual coherence of interest. it's not the relationship we have with the united states of america. it never can be. but i think it's important that we make every effort right now to avoid a concussion. when we come back, i will ask prime minister netanyahu, the iran nuclear deal's biggest opponent, what if any options he has left.
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back now no more of my interview with israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu who was in new york this week for the u.n. general assembly. >> let me show you a chart. you presented a graphic when you came to the u.n. and you detailed exactly what was dangerous about iran's quest to enrich uranium. you said this was the key, how much enriched uranium they had and you drew a line. this is a chart put out by the white house. and they say you are right, that iran was at this point, the red line that you describe. but they say, with this deal, before the sanctions are lifted, iran has to destroy 98% of its enriched uranium, of course the plutonium path way is blocked, and that the line would have to
be drawn way down here. so i'm asking you, are they right? >> look i'm not going to rehash the deal. i summarized yesterday our main opposition. i even go into the question of centrifuges -- >> i asked experts and they said, yeah, if iran does in the first year before the sanctions are lifted what it is required to do, it goes way down. >> well, there are a lot of questions that will remain open on this question. but there's one that isn't. that is that after year ten and after year 15, all these limitations are lifted. therefore iran will be free to get to the point where it's at the threshold level of producing the nuclear -- the indispensable nuclear material through enrichment to make -- >> but they're right now, as per your speech two years ago -- >> but they were held back because of sanctions that are
now going to be removed. so i don't want to rehash this. i said, okay, now that it's done, let's look forward. let's keep iran's feet to the fire. let's make sure they keep all their obligations under the nooek deal. that's the first thing. second thing, let's block iran's other aggression in the region. they're trying to encircle israel with a noose of death, they're sending weapons to the houthis in iraq and afghanistan, all over the place, yemen of course. let's bolster those forces and stand up to iran's aggression in the region and none is more reliable than israel. so i look forward to discussing president obama's offer to bolster israel's security when i visit the united states in november. and the third thing i said and i drew attention to something that is not well-known, let's tear down iran's global terror
network. they're establishing terror cells in the western hemisphere alongside the eastern hemisphere. yes, we had a disagreement in the family, as president obama and i both said. but we have no disagreement about blocking iran's aggress n aggression. >> last week, bill clinton on that program said that he thought your speech to the united states congress at the invitation of john boehner was unprecedented. i asked him then, was it unwise. he said you'll have to ask prime minister netanyahu that. was it unwise? >> i'll ask you a question. if the president of the united states thought that a deal was being forged that would endanger even the very survival of the united states, wouldn't you expect him to speak up at every place? of course you would. that was my obligation. again, i don't think we should rehash this. but i think we should focus on what we do agree must be done
right now. president obama was calling me up at the time that the deal was being debated. he said, i had like to talk to you about bolstering israel's security, maintaining its quantitative military evenly. would you like to do that now or later? i said i'd like to do it later, a day after. today, in my conversation with john kerry, this is the day after. and we began that conversation. our minister of defense will be coming to washington to meet secretary carter in a few weeks. after that, i'll meet president obama. i look forward to discussing this with the president. i think it's a very important stage to help us face the challenges that we face. >> if two years from now, iran has in fact destroyed 98% of its highly enriched uranium, if the
facilities are rendered inoperable, will you call president obama and say, maybe this worked a little better than i thought it would? >> i'll be the happiest in the world if my concerns are proved to be wrong. it's a practical question right now. it's not an ideological question, it's not a political question. it's a practical question. do they keep the agreement, and second what happens ten years from now when they're absolved of any restrictions, which is the main point i've been making? see they get the restrictions lifted regardless of their -- >> but you get 15 years with a non-nuclear -- >> assuming they don't cheat. and second, you're also assuming that they would have gone on and continued in the face of very strong sanctions and a military threat. we can argue that, but that's not my purpose now.
my purpose is to focus on what we do agree on. and we absolutely agree on the need to block iran's aggression in the region. that was never part of the deal, that you let them have free reign. and the second thing is how to bolster israel's security. and other allies that are facing the same uranium threat. i'd also draw attention to their global terror network. these are things we agree on and we should cooperate on and we will cooperate on. when we come back, did any lingering hopes for middle east peace just blow up at the u.n. this week? i'll ask the prime minister when we come back. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family.
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follow the oslo process, they will not abide by it anymore. i want to ask you, since it does feel like the peace process is -- is dead, you know, if it ever had much life in it, about his son. his son -- there are a couple of reports -- a "new york times" report. he gave an interview. he said, i'm not for my father's plan, i think the peace process is dead. i want a one-state solution. i just want rights. i just want political rights. if you're not going to give me a state, give me political rights. you know there are other palestinians that feel this way. about a third of palestinians now and it is more for younger palestinians want just political rights. will they get them? >> well, i think that the right solution is a demilitarized palestinian state that
recognizes the jewish state. they want a palestinian state, we have a jewish state. we should have mutual recognition of each of these states. i think that's imminently preferable to the idea of a unitary state, which i don't want. the reason the peace process doesn't move forward is because the palestinians have two provisions. one is, you've got to renounce terrorism and act against it. unfortunately, that's not what they're doing. we just had a young mother and a young father brutally murdered by palestinian terrorists. four little orphans in the back of the car and they've yet to denounce this. on the rare occasions that we have acts of terrorism by jews, we all go there like gang busters. we condemn it. we do everything we can to fight
them. i expect them to do the same. one is you have to stop this inkrooitment. the second thing, you've got to come in sit on the table. >> why not use this opportunity to make an actual proposal for a palestinian state? >> his offers and my offers obviously don't co-here. let's sit around the table. >> he says the problem is you're building settlements -- >> i think the problem is he's inciting terrorism. we're the guardians of the temple. without israel, you know, what will happen on those sacred sites would be what happened in palmyra. i have complaints. he has complaints. there's only one way to get peace negotiations going. you've got to sit down and negotiate. yet in the seven years that i've
been sitting in the prime minister's office, we haven't had seven hours that he was willing to talk. and it's not because of me. the fact is, i'm willing to have this conversation, he's not. >> he says you're creating facts on the ground -- >> so is he. >> last question. you talked about terrorism against palestinians, the president of israel says wonders, he posed this question, why is this culture of extremism flourishing in israel right now. do you think there's an atmosphere that has incited or allowed this kind of extremism to flourish. >> no i think the test is not weather societies have extremists. the question is, what does the mainstream do about it. in our case, we go wild against them. every part of our society unites against any example of terrorism in our midst.
but what i see is that president abas calls public squares in honor of mass murderers. it's a tragedy i think, for us and the palestinians too. the culture of peace, of acceptance, for women, gays and so on is very much engrained in our culture. we don't educate our people that we have to decembstroy the pal yaps. for that we have to sit down. that's one order of the day. the other order of the day is what i said before. i think we have to protect ourselves against the rising tide of militant islam that is threatening all of us. and israel is there. and i appreciate the fact that despite our disagreement on the iran nuclear deal, both the supporters of the deal and the opponents of the deal, those who supported it, those who oppose it, they all agree, now we have to strengthen israel.
i think that's the best guarantor of peace. >> prim minister netanyahu, thank you so much. >> thank you, fareed. >> up next, why reading a novel might better prepare for the job market than learning how to write computer code. i'll explain when we come back. and start planning your own. i've had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life. but that hasn't stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses... ...stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection, have had cancer,
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just like eddie, the first step to reaching your retirement goals is to visualize them. then, let the principal help you get there. join us as we celebrate eddie's retirement, and start planning your own. now for our what in the world segment. rekrintly australia announced a bold new curriculum for its schools. when children are 12 years old, they will learn how to write computer programs. in contrast to history and geography, which will be removed as standalone subjects. meanwhile in japan, humanities and social science departments are either closing or scaling back at 26 national
universities. before we start firing all the history professors, let's examine the ideas behind these moves. it's certainly true that today's high-tech economy needs people who are computer savvy. a group estimates by 2020 there will be 1.4 million computing jobs in the u.s., but only 400,000 computer science students to fill them. so it's smart to understand how computers work. but succeeding at work and in life is more complicated than simply learning to code. in my book "in defense of a liberal education" i show how important the liberal arts were to teaching creativity and the joy of learning, all of which help you even in the tech world. a recent book called "humans are underrat underrated" explains that
studying the humanities could be as valuable in the future, perhaps even more so. it's anybody's guest which jobs will become automated next, but human beings will always insist on some jobs being done by other human beings even if computers are capable of doing those jobs. these jobs that will emphasize social interaction are going to be the jobs of the future. humans are social animals. the need to interact with others is connected to our very survival. that's why we'd prefer to see a real doctor rather than a computer or choose to work in teams with other humans, not just with computer models. so he says that those who thrive at interacting with others will be the most valuable people in the future. more so than the knowledge workers of the 20th century who might more likely be replaced by
computer. the demand for relationship workers has actually already been on the rise, he argues. from 2001 to 2009, jobs involving human interaction like nurses and lawyers went up by nearly 5 million in the u.s. according to the mckinzie global institute compared to transaction jobs and production jobs, which went down. so what is the best way to educate our children to become relationship workers? science and technology disciplines are still crucial, but far more than engineering or computer science, the humanities strengthen the deep human abilities that will be critical to the success of most people. for example, reading fiction with complex characters and stories trains us to observe others and empathize with other people, he points out, which is why many medical schools are requiring that their students read fiction to become better
doctors. to repeat, coding is important. computers are important. but the jobs of the future and life in the future will be about how technology interacts with human beings. and for that, you need all kinds of knowledge, scientific, as well as humanistic. next on gps, president bill clinton and the man that has been called italy's bill clinton. so you don't have to stop. because you believe in go. onward. today's the day. carpe diem. tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain has two layers of pain relief. the first is fast. the second lasts all day. we give you your day back. what you do with it is up to you. tylenol®. i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise.
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prime minister mateo renzi. it was a terrific wide-ranging conversation. i want to show you the best parts. i started off by asking for an overall analysis of just how bad things look in europe today. >> unfortunately, europe is state of d disintegration, it started in 2008 and it continues to progress. actually become nonly-linear. you have not one crisis, but multiple. at least five or six crises. >> what are the main ones? >> you started the euro crisis at the root of it all, it came
to fruition in the greek crisis at the beginning of 2010. then you have -- you have ukrainian situation and of course now the migration crisis. and the most important thing of course is that there is also an external threat, namely from putin's russia. and the internal threat, crises are dividing europe. this external threat ought to unite europe because everybody has to pull together to resist and to stand up to it. >> the rising russian bear on europe's borders and growling in so many different directions. i asked prime minister mateo
renzi if russian threats would cause europe to find some common ground and common identity and coalesce and unite. >> i think it could be a tragic mistake. consider identity europe against russia. i think we must defend integrity of ukraine. i think we must continue in a correct support to poroshenko's government. but if we think the future of europe is create an identity not in our values and our ideals, but against russia, i think this is a tragic mistake. first because i think we must involve russia in every, syria, libya, mediterranean. second because i think it's impossible for a place as europe with a place in which in the past we won, we won only when we decide to open the borders, not
close. europe and president clinton obviously he's here, the number one to verify this point. europe has the identity when the berlin walls fell out. now the risk of europe is not the problem of russia for me. it's not the problem of austerity for me. it's the angry built a new wall. because for my mother, the moment of identity of europe was when berlin walls fell out. for my children, i really worried if i think between hungarian and croatia we can build a new wall. >> president clinton, can you tell us what do you think about the main crisis that has been in the news recently which is the migration crisis? and it's accelerated, but as you well-known, you mentioned to me earlier, this year we have seen
the largest number of displaced people since world war ii, 60 million people. it seems to me we've gotten to a point where because technology and media and a certain degree of means allow people to see a better life and to find a way to leave their countries, they can't get -- they are not taken in anywhere, so you have 60 million people around the world trapped in this no man's land. how do we solve this? what happens? >> well, first, i'll do my best to answer that. but if you think about what george said and what the prime minister said, wasn't so very long ago that europeans were killing each other in large miracle. the eurozone assumed great economic significance as long as the economy was growing. as soon as it turned down the problems became apparent.
the world is no less interdependent. it's more. in times of insecurity, negative identity politics tend to trump positive identity politics. the european idea requires a level of security, personal and collective security to embrace. it doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for or that the battle is over. we didn't repeal the laws of human nature. we didn't all of a sudden elevate human consciousness overnight. this is a long battle. i'm with you, it's worth fighting for. >> can i ask you one corollary? do you think that issue of negative versus positive identity when you have slow growth is true in america as well? >> absolutely. absolutely. you get these -- that's the
republican presidential debates. you have people who live in cold country who lost 20,000 jobs before barack obama took the oath of office responding to mr. trump saying that if i just throw the immigrants out who are undocumented and stop the chinese products from coming in, you'll be hunky dory. they are physically isolated where employment peaked in 1920, 95 years ago. nobody has done anything for them. it is a microcosm of what you see in greece, italy, parts of spain. the whole deal. we need to take a step back and say if this is worth fighting for, let's just take this thing piece by piece. i don't think you should give up on the european dream nor do i think you can get it back as it was in the hay dday of the 90sor
night. you have to bill it back and you have to realize this is really terrible. compared to what? what europe was in the 1940s? i don't think so. what it was in the 1870s? i don't think so. we can't get away from each other so the world will be defined by positive identity politics or negative identity politics. in insecure times the negative has the advantage. you don't win in a day. you win a long, long battle. next, something completely different. the world went crazy recently over the so-called pizza rat. i say these rats should be the real heroes. they can actually save lives. nd. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. ...are taking charge of their acrotype 2 diabetes......
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yesterday marked the end of the united nations general assembly debate. it's landmark year for the u.n. that's celebrating its 70th anniversary. what country was the first to sign the u.n. charter on june 26th, 1945? the united states, china, united kingdom or switzerland. stay tuned and we'll give you the answer. this week's book of the week is kissinger the ideal list. ferguson has produced a fascinating deep and rich biography of kissinger that changes from his childer to his roles as adviser to john kenn y kennedy, rockefeller and richard nixon. the book is 1,000 pages long and ends just with kissinger's appointment.
admittedly this is like candy for me but i found myself deeply interested despite the detail. now for the last look. brutal battlefield, sinking ships are a few of the obstacles refugees face during their journeys to europe. they're also facing potential threats that have been lying in wait for decades. facing border closures and fewer paths to germany, they're traveling through croatia to get to their promise land. if they stray from paths there danger awaiting thanks to 51,000 active land mines left over from the balkan war. removing that many mines may seem like an impossible fete, well it isn't. lost month the government of announced it's land mine free.
halo trust says it oversaw the removal of the 170,000 michbs. the men and women who cleared the mines had help from an unlikely source. these giant mdr, mine detection rats went through extensive training to help the human friends sniff out mines. in under an hour they could check an area that would take a human two days to cover. to think last week the world of twitter was impressed by a rat that carried a slice of pizza. we think these rats should go viral instead. the correct answer to the gps challenge question is b. china as the first victim of aggression by an access power, unquote was given the opportunity to sign the charter first. 49 other countries also signed that day. happy 70th anniversary to the u.n.
tune in next sunday as i'll be talking to more of the world leaders who are in new york for that general assembly. thanks to all of you for being part of my program. i'll see you next week. thanks for joining me. i'm suzanne malveaux. catastrophic flooding leaving parts of the south atlantic completely under water. the rapidly rising water stranding people in their homes. in some parts of columbia, a the water is so high, many people are unable to evacuate on their own. instead needing to be rescued by boat, one woman escaping just in the nick of time. >> if we wouldn't have got out by 7:00 this morning, we wouldn't have got out. a lot of our neighbors got trapped in their homes and they had to come rescue them in motor boats and canoes. >> the dangerous weather