tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 20, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
if they're right about the cubs, it will make up for being wrong about everything else. who would have thought that would be the thing possible. be sure to set your dvr. you can watch the show anytime. "anderson cooper 360" begins right now snow. \s well-begin with a story you'll only see here, a disturbing follow-up to our investigation of health care inside the department of veterans affairs. new revelations about how long it's taking veterans to get the health care they need, even after all the promises officials made to fix a seriously broken system. our previous reporting helped sparked investigations, apologies and ultimately the resignation of eric shinseki, but even after that, wait times are growing longer, not shorter.
right now a half million veterans are waiting more than 9 on days to see a doctor. tonight for the first time, a senior v.a. official sits down to answer what is really going on and why the v.a. is not getting better. our drew griffin ton is keeping them honest. >> reporter: wait times are not getting better. listen to what this whistle-blower says is happening right now at the phoenix v.a., the same phoenix v.a. where last year cnn unkoufrd the fact that veterans were dies. >> the reality is veterans are waiting three, six months sometimes. >> reporter: like most of our sources inside the v.a., this whistle-blower has asked we not reveal any identity. are we talking about critical care? >> these are patients waiting for appointments, anything from colonoscopys to angiograms to
procedures to remove tumors. these are specialty appointments that need to be seen immediately by the v.a. >> reporter: these v.a. documents show just this past august in phoenix there were more than 8,000 appointments waiting more than 9 on days. sloan gibson is the deputy secretary of the department of veterans affairs, brought on last year to fix this mess. >> the phoenix v.a., the center of this whole things, i'm going to let you look at that for just a second. it shows more than 8,000 patients waiting more than 90 days for an appointment. now, explain to me what this is and if that's true, how could it be? >> what you're looking at is something that's called an open consult's report. that's going to include instances where care has already been delivered, but there may be some administrative issue that hasn't been corrected yet that allows the consult beat to be
removed. >> reporter: does it necessarily mean that 8,000 patients are not waiting 90 days? i would say patently it means there are not 8,000 patients waiting 9 on days. are patients waiting longer than they should be? yes, they are. >> reporter: how could you make a statement so strongly that they're not? >> i'm saying some of them are not. >> reporter: some of them are not. >> because i know -- >> reporter: do you know how many? >> no, i don't know for phoenix and i can't tell you from the top of the v.a. >> reporter: this internal draft memo leaked to cnn warns currently wait times are increasing. >> that was a slide deck that was prepared for me. >> reporter: so you know very much about it. >> the pending appointments over 30 days plus the electronics wait list is almost 500,000 today. how can it be? the lesson that we have seen in location after location is when we improve access to care, whether it's by adding staff,
space or product activity or care in the community, more veterans come for more care. >> reporter: you're saying you're a victim of your own success. >> i would say the challenge we have is a structural challenge. >> reporter: so when our sources are telling you the reality is the veterans are waiting months, you would say? >> i would say we work every single day trying to find ways to make it better. i know, as you've shown right there, we have veterans waiting too long for care. >> reporter: in los angeles, the largest v.a. facility in the nation, this document obtained by cnn shows an average wait times for new patients in mental health was 43 days. publicly the v.a. claims it was less than four days. how can there be two different numbers? the v.a. changed the way it calculates wait times. when asked how the new calculation is made, cnn was sent this seven-paragraph explanation, defining preferred date, create date, differences between patient and clinic
actions, future scheduled date and various readjustments for a no show or cancel by a veteran. according to the statement from the v.a., this methodology allowed v.a. to capture the full wait time experience of the patient. sources involved in actual scheduling tells cnn it's just confusing. >> the staff who are telling us that what they think they are seeing is recalculations, number manipulations, to paint a rossier picture than it is. >> absolutely not. i wouldn't stand for it, not for a minute. >> reporter: the new leadership at the v.a. says it will also not stand for any retaliation against the whistle-blowers who come forward to point out where veterans are being treated unfairly, but in preparing this report, cnn has learned that v.a. managers were already searching for a leak. in fact i happen to know that once we sent documents to the v.a. regarding this interview,
there were active investigations going on by managers, certainly in l.a. and in phoenix to find out who could possibly have had access to those documents and who could possibly have given them to cnn. >> and there should not have been investigations, period. i have made it clear more times than i can count, in every form that i can come up with that retaliation against whistle-blowers won't by tolerated. >> dr. catherine mitchell, one of the original whistle-blowers in phoenix say lifelong bureaucrats know they will not be fired, which is why many in the v.a. have chosen to keep their mouths shut. >> those administrator are tors are still there. >> reporter: congress passed a law making it easier to fire bad managers has also criticized the new limp for only firing three senior executives. is that true? if that is true, why?
>> i don't have is a specific number of people that were specifically disciplined associated with the waitlist scandal. the criminal i.g. has gone and investigated and concluded there was no misconduct no malintent. this was just somebody who didn't understand their jobs. >> but the managers of those people obviously weren't doing a good -- you're from private business. i don't have to tell you that. >> we had managers -- >> reporter: who had not done their jobs. >> we had managers who didn't understand how to do scheduling. >> reporter: so maybe they shouldn't be managers? >> maybe they shouldn't be. more than 50% of our leaders have turned over in the last 24 months. >> reporter: sources remain unconvinced just how much has really changed since the scandal except the way the management recalculates its wait times, which according to dr. catherine mitchell still do not tell the whole truth. do you think based on your
knowledge of how the system works that veteran are still dies, waiting for care? >> yes. yes. >> no hesitate? >> no hesitation at all. >> drew joins us now. those are serious allegations. is there any way to prove that veteran are still dies, waiting to care? >> it's tough to prove. are they still waiting for care? yes, our sources sasz yes, are the waits causing or contributing to the deaths? it takes a look back, a medical review, more or less a medical trial. we do know they just released inspector general's report looking back at patients in 2013, and 2014, did find delays and denied car to veterans significantly impacted their care. that's a quote. several of those veterans died, but that's as far as those reports go, and after all this, why haven't three senior executives been fired? >> reporter: it is easier, but
still not easy. you know two manager reese moved from the phoenix v.a. in the wake of that scandal? they're still on paid leave. it's been like 18 months. sloan gibson and secretary mcdonald, i can sense their is frustration. they're trying to manage this bureaucracy. it is out of control. they're having a tough time firing poor performers. what they try to do is move them around, move them into positions where they can't do any hampl, but it is not easy. >> drew, thank you. up next breaking news in capitol hill about the house leadership. paul ryan tonight saying he is willing to be speaker if several things fall into place. we'll tell you what they are. also ahead donald trump says president obama is thinking about taking your guns away via executive order. where is he getting that information? you might be surprised by his answer and other claims that are not quite backed up by facts. we're keeping them honest tonight.
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we have breaking news. congressman paul ryan says he would be willing to serve as house speakers with certain conditions. what have you learned? >> reporter: well, anderson, paul ryan just addressed a closed-door briefing of his fellow house republicans. what he said is he's willing to run for speaker if all the
different competing factions within the republican conference agree to endorse his bid for speaker. he does not want to come in as someone who would barely get over the finish line with the 218 votes necessary to become speaker. he wants full unity. this is a big development, anderson. for weeks, the last week and a half or so aftered stunning announcement by kevin mccarthy to not seek the speakership, the pressure has been building on paul ryan to take the job. he's been skeptical. he wanted to stay in his current position as house ways & means chairman. he wasn't that interested in managing all the personalities on the house floor, but there is really nobody else who can do it, and pressure has been building intensely from all parts of the republican party, and he spent last week back at home reflecting on the decision. he went hunting with his family and thought about this long and
hard. he came back today and began to talk to more members. he held meetings with key caucuses and said that he would be willing to jump if if he were a unity candidate. after this meeting, a large amount of republicans said they would get behind him, but we'll see in a matter of days what some of these key groups say. it looks like now that paul ryan will very likely be the next speaker offings house. i want to now speak with peter king. congressman, what do you think about what paul ryan is saying? >> i would strongly support paul ryan as speaker. i think the conditions he laid out are done in a very positive way. saying he said he would be -- is willing to take arrows in the chest, but not in the back. he wants everyone to buy in, and he will be looking for endorsement of all the major groups, including the tuesday
group, the more moderate -- and the freedom caucus, and he said that the endorsement of all of them. otherwise he said he would be the third log on the fire, and he doesn't want that. if he's going to be the speaker, it probably will be the end of his political career, probably won't go further than this. he wants to make it worth while. he believes in the cause rather than in just the political gamesmanship, and he also indicated he does not want to spend as much time fund-raising. it will be policy oriented and selling the republican message. >> we showed our viewers the podium, congressman ryan is expected to come out and speak. we'll obviously bring that to the viewers live. i just want to apologize in advance for that. congressman king, though, how likely is it you think he can get the support of the various factions? >> anderson, i would put it this way, if he doesn't, no one will.
i agree with paul -- as far as i know, i agree with him on most issues. if i didn't, he laid it out in a way if you don't have the speaker of the house, the speaker needs to be effective. he can't be spending time fighting with his own party. so to me that's just common sense also. paul has the qualifications, his knowledge, integrity, you know, no one is going to match him. if they don't endorse paul ryan, i don't know where we go. i really fear for the party. >> how touch a decision do you think this was for him? we have been told up until now he was basically in his dream job. he's a apologize, reforming the tax code, and he was in a position to take that on on. >> basically paul said all of that tonight. i think probably it was his preference not to take it, but on the other hand he said that so many people have in effect told him that he's the only one
that could unite the party, if the party keeps going the way it is, it will virtually guarantee a democratic election, the president in 2016 and maybe the loss of the house and the senate. he was willing to do it, but he said his family does come first and he wants a party united behind him. he's not going in for the title, the perks, whatever they are, it's because he believes in the cause, you know, before the political ambition. other people say that, okay, that's standard rhetoric, but with paul, it's real. i'm not close to paul ryan, but i admire him, know him and i have tremendous respect for him. >> definitely taking on one of the toughest jobs there is. joining me is dana lash, and ana navarra. what do you think? do you think he'll be able to get the backs of these disparate groups? >> that's a great question.
optically paul ryan is a good choice, he's of good temperam t temperament. he has youth on his side. he is one of those in the house, one of the few adept at taking something policy wise very far in the weeds and presenting it in lay men's terms and he's been grouped a while by john boehner. but that being said where you have the freedom caucus and grassroots, they're concerned about his past, particularly the fact that he's really never met a bailout he didn't like, he supported part d, no child left behind, tarp, and it's the company with whom he's kept. while john boehner has been the face, make no mistake it's been paul ryan behind the scenes. so there are concerns. if he will not do it without their consent that could be the holdout. i'm pretty sure they will probably stick with principle unless there can be arms twisted. >> yet, ana, if they don't agree, who else is there but
paul ryan? >> frankly i can't think of anybody else who is capable of reaching consensus, of uniting the different factions in the party. i really hope the freedom cau s caucus, the different factions can unite. i'm a friend of his wife. this is a huge sacrifice for that family. he has school-age children. it weighed on him tremendously. from inside the room, i was hearing that he said, you know, this is not about the title, it's about the cause. i am a cause guy. i think people know, whether you agree with him or nod ideologywise he's a man of judgment, a man of character, a man of his word, that he's going to try to do the right thing and he's going to try to be a team builder. i would urge everything in the house, all the reps to unite and back paul ryan today. if not him, who? we have to take a short break. we are expecting him to speak in a moment.
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welcome back. paul ryan is saying he would be -- let's listen in. >> tonight i shared with my colleagues what i think it will take to have a unified conference and for the next speaker to be successful. basically i made a few requests for what i think is necessary, and i asked my colleagues to hear back from them by the end of the week. first, we need to move from an opposition party to being a proposition party. because we think the nation is on the wrong past, we have a duty to show the right one our next speaker has to be a visionnary one. second, we need to update our house rules so that everyone can be a more effective representative. this is, after all, the people's house. we need to do this as a team and it needs to include fixes that ensure we do not experience constant leadership challenges in crises. third, we as a conference should
unify now and not after a divisive speaker election. the last point, last point is personal. i cannot and will not give up my family time. i may not be on the road as often as previous speakers, but i pledge to try and make up for it with more time communicating our vision, our message. what i told members is if you can agree to these requests, and if i can truly be a unifying figure, then i will gladly serve. and if i'm not unifying, that will be fine as well. i will be happy to stay where i am at the ways & means committee. here is how i see it. it is our duty to serve the people the way they deserve to be served. it is our duty to make the tough decisions this country needs to get our nation back on track. the challenges we face today are
too difficult and too demanding to turn our backs and walk away. global terror, war on multiple fronts, a government grown unaccountable, unconstitutional, out of touch. persistent poverty, a sluggish economy, flat wages, a skyrocketing debt, but we cannot take on these challenges alone. now more than ever we must work together. all of us are representatives of the people. all people. we have been entrusted by them to lead. and yet the people we serve, they do not feel we are delivering on the job that they hired us to do. we have become the problem. if my colleagues entrust me to be the speaker, i want us to become the solution. one thing i've learned from my
upbringing in janeville is not is ever solved by blaming people. we can blame the president, we can blame the media, and that's kind of fun sometimes. we can point fingers across the aisle. we can blame each other. we can dismiss our critics and criticism as unfair. people don't care about blame. people don't care about effort. people care about results. results that are measurable, results that are meaningful. results that make a difference in their daily lives. i want to be clear about this. i think that we are still an exceptional country with exceptional people, and a republic clearly worth fighting for. the american idea, it's not too late to save, but we are running out of time. and make no mistake, i believe that the ideas and principles of
results-driven common-sense conservative are the keys to a better tomorrow, a tomorrow in which all of god's children will be better off than they are today. the idea that the role of the federal government is not for facilitate dependency, but to create an environment of opportunity for everyone. the idea that government should do less and do it better. the idea that those who serve should say what they mean and mean what they say. the principle that we should all determine the course of our own lives instead of ceding that right to those who think they are better than the rest of us. yes, we will stand and fight when we must, and surely this presidency will require that. a commitment to natural rights, a commitment to common, to compassion, when rooted in genuine conviction and principle is a commitment to conservatism.
i considered to do this with reluctance, and i mean that in the most personal of ways. jenna and i have children in the formative foundational years of their lives. i genuinely worry about the consequences my agreeing to serve will have on them. will they experience the viciousness and incivility that we all face here on a daily basis? but my greatest worry, my greatest worry is the consequence of not stepping up, of someday having my own kids ask me, when the stakes were so high, why didn't you do all you could do? why didn't you stand and fight for my future when you had a chance to do so? none of us wants to hear that question, and none of us should ever have to. i have shown my colleagues what i think success looks like, what
i think it takes to unify and leads and how my family commitment comes first. i've left the decisions in their hands. should they agree with the requests, i am happy and willing to get to work. thank you. chad? >> mr. chairman, thank you. what happened in the past couple weeks. you put out a statement after kevin mccarthy -- you were in -- you said, you know, you had concern about consequences knotts serving. is that the underlying issue here? >> that is. paul ryan there expressing his thoughts on what it's going to take for had imto assume this position, saying essentially he knees the fax hundreds within the republican party in congress and capitol hill to be behind him doing this. back with dana lash, host of dana on the blaze, and also with us ana navarro.
cnn's senior washington correspondent jeff zeleny, let's start with you. i guess not a huge surprise he's agreed finally to do this. there was an awful lot of pressure on him. what do you make of his remarks? >> not a surprise he decided to come to this conclusion. i've never seen so much pressure on a relatively young lawmaker with a bright future to do something like that that he really doesn't want to do. he was serious about that. we hear a lot of political figures say i don't want to do this. he really didn't. i think that he, you know, from mitt romney to some religious figures to john boehner, a lot of people essentially begged him to do this for the good of the house conference. the speaker position we talk about in political terms. it is a constitutional office. the second in line to the presidency, so i'm told that is what weighed on paul ryan's mind here. it is far from clear that he is going to be able to unify this
conference. i believe he is serious about saying he will not actually go through with this if he's not able to get a complete unanimous vote on friday or whenever they actually cast this vote. so it is up to the house republican conference now to sort of tend their own ranks and so sort of govern from within and rally around paul ryan. there's no chance they will get anyone more of a unifying figure here than paul ryan. he's basically left it in their hands. now they need to sort of follow him. >> dana, i'm wondering what pushback you are hearing, mainly from the freedom coalition side. is there a resentment, people feel like they're supposed to pledge loyalty? >> i think there's the expectation if paul ryan is as earnest as he definitely seems to be -- and i don't doubt hi sincerity at all. if he's incredibly earnest about
making sure he has their approval, that they are going to back him in this race and they are going to assistant behind him as speaker, that maybe he comes with less conditions, and maybe he listens a bit more, and they can craft a few conditions together. from what i hear, that's been a very big concern with the freedom caucus and the great roots who support and provide a lot of energy and momentum. now, whether or not that's going to happen in the next few days we will see, but a lot of people aren't really surprised. one of the things that we know is paul ryan has been groomed for a very long time. while he was mitt romney's number two, not everyone fox about the -- he's come a long way to recognizing limited spending as well, we'll see. >> ana, what do you think about his comments tonight? >> i think they were unifies comments, music to my ears. i know paul ryan pretty well,
and i know his wife. it was a surprise to me, because i know how much that weighs on him. it was such a big part. he's from janeville, wisconsin. this is not an easy play to commute to. it's not like from new york or miami, a two-hour flight from washington. he knows what's entailed, what's included in being speaker means, you know, a lot of requirements on your time, a lot of stress put on you, and i think it was a huge factor. i think what happened is he went home and they talked about it. they decided it was the best thing and decided the sacrifice for the family was worst trying to move this agenda for the country. >> we'll see what happens in the days ahead. thank you. up next donald trump says president obama is thinking about taking your guns away via executive order. just one recent example trump making basically inaccurate claims. tonight we're keeping them
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making. plenty of politicians try to rewrite their own personal history or statements, but few politicians do it with such bravado as donald trump. when he's questioned about unsubstantiated claims, he usually trying to dodge the question, and of course he'll attack the reporter or try to change the subject. just this morning when talking about the wars after 9/11, trump said it was right for the united states to go into afghanistan. >> we went into iraq, which was a disaster decision, just a sdaus russ decision. >> >> new day's allison camerota said going to afghanistan was a mistake. trump wasn't hearing it. >> we made a mistake going into iraq. >> our question was about afghanistan. >> okay. it wouldn't matter. i never said it. >> all right. he said he never said that, except he absolutely did say that, two weeks ago.
this isn't the only mess he's refused to acknowledge. here's what he said last night. >> so big second amendment, we're all big heavy on the second amendment, you know. you know, the president's thinking about signing an executive order where he wants to take your guns away. this is the new. not going to happen. that won't happen, but that's a tough one. i think that's tough for him to do, when you actually have the second amendment, that's tough. >> gel allison pressed him on this on "new day." >> mr. trump, the president hasn't signed -- >> no, i heard that he wants to, and i think on your network. i didn't say he's signing it, i
think that would be a tough one to sign. >> yes, it's impossible to fact. >> i would say it's impossible, but nevertheless he was thinking about it, and you've heard it from numb lulls networks and read it in the papers. >> so the source are numerous. there has been somesh to expand background checks for gun buyers. that's a far cry from the president wants to take your guns away. this is all fine if you're talking to your friends in a bar, but if you're the leading candidate, you may think you would need more evident. we've seen this brush-off before. watch what happened when i asked him myself for any proof of another big claims that the mexican government is sending rapists or criminals across the border, by the way immigration officials say there's no evidence to support. >> i think it's common sense. mexico didn't want to house
somebody. >> but you keep saying everybody knows this is the case. >> i think the smart people, the streetwise people know, and i think border guards know. >> but do you have evidence? >> you're going to find out what i have. >> we're still wait fog that evidence. >> the strategy seems to make the wild claims, or just say you heard about it somewhere, or that smart people know about it. >> unlike with other politicians, however, none of this seems to be hurting donald trump at the polls. look at the new cnn/orcp poll. one thing many of mr. trump's supporters say they like him, because he's a so-called truth teller. over the last 24 lower we've seen examples where that doesn't seem to be true. joining me about it sam clovis, with me again dana lash, host of dana on the blaze, and cnn political commutator, van jones. mr. clovis, so i mean if trump
is going to portray himself as this truth teller, shouldn't he speak speaking the truth or at least admit when he's been caught saying things think didn't -- or reversing himself based on something he said two weeks before? >> i thought we were going to have a discussion on policy tonight. i'm sorry where this is heading. >> this is policy. >> well -- >> he said he was against going to afghanistan and now is -- >> i don't appreciate this at all. i didn't have any indication this is where we were going to be going with this. i thiol we were going to be talking about policy and where we are in the campaign and our polling, and where we're going to end up with this thing. but if these are the issues, that's fine. i'll let the other commentators comment on it. >> you're involved in the policy on afghanistan, i i'm you're involved in the policy on taking away the guns -- >> i'm involved in the policy on afghanistan, because the president of the united states is still the president. that's the policy that we have.
we're not involved in the policy in syria, because that's the policy that we have. we're not going to be able to do anything about any of these things until the 20th of january in 2017, and then we'll be able to make positive movements on this, because right now we could do anything about what the president of the united states is doing. all we can do is talk about it and comment on it. >> do you believe the president is really trying to take away guns that he wants to sign an executive order and that's based on reporting. >> i was waiting to come on here when you were broadcasting the news on paul ryan. i was able to do a bit of search on my wonderful phone here, and i was able to find out that he would like very much, your network in fact has reported he hayes spoken about having a model in america much like that in the united king done and in australia. and that to me leads us then to confiscations of guns.
australia has talked about confiscating and has confiscated guns and frankly it hasn't worked out for them. so from that perspective, that's exactly where we're headed if the president has his way. i want to make sure people understand the historical significant of the second amendment. the second amendment is lifted almost verbatim from the bill of rights that was appended to the constitution of -- >> but we're not talking about revoking the second amendment -- >> so that's -- so let's talk about where we are with this. so if this is what you want to talk about, i'm fine, we'll talk about that. >> i'd like to talk about it, anderson. >> van, what do you make of this? >> part of the problem that we have here now is that the word of the president of the united states is supposed to mean something, you're trying out for a particular job.
if you're trying out to be a surgeon, you don't show up dressed like you're showing up for a completely different profession. he is not improving. the problem is he started out saying outrageous stuff. he gets called on it, he doesn't improve. i don't mind somebody new coming into politics. you do expect them to grow. he's getting worse. the others thing is you cannot see a bigger difference with what you saw with paul ryan and what you're seeing with donald trump. paul ryan showed a level of maturity and political smarts, and said i'm not going to be speaker and end the civil war. end the civil war and i'll become speaker. next to a donald trump who will say anything, who will not take any responsibility, who is -- if you imagine this person being president of the united states, you are putting the safety of americans at risk. people around the world need to know when the president speaks he is telling the truth and --
>> let me jump in here. dana, let me argue the opposite. i do like to look at things from all points of view and i don't want sam to feel that i'm surprising him if he wasn't aware we were going to talk about this stuff. you could easily say donald trump should get more leeway, because he's not a professional candidate, not a career politician, and what a lot of his supporters is like will sell he sometimes is speak sprainiusly. should he get a break that a career politician who's had a history of voting, maybe not get? >> two points on that. i will say that donald trump is the pop culture candidate of this particular election cycle. if anyone understands sound bites -- i think he may have trademarked the phrase "you're fired." if he hasn't he should get on that, but el understands sound
bites. i think it's politicianesque to say i'm not a politician so i can be excused for saying certain things. regardless, if you are incredibly passionate about limited government and auditioning for the most important job really in the world. you will be passionate, you will speak with confidence of your convictions, and there will be no room for doubt. on the point of firing arms, and to mr. clovis' point, you know, i think that donald trump should have used a bit of specificity when he was discussing the configures case of fire arms. i have a book where i get into gun droll laws. he was remarking, you know, to his credit, he was remarking on the president, but also hillary clinton's praise of australia's gun laws where they did in fact with semiautomatic firearms there was a confiscation -- >> but that's not what he was talking about at this moment. >> van joans, actually it was in
the context of that particular news cycle and it was the president's response, which by the way private ownership is back to the preban finish -- >> let her finish. >> so i think it's important to recognize that. has there been an executive order signed to that effect? no. >> that's my point. >> the president has suggested an executive order was actually going back and redefines who is or who is not a fire arms dealer. if we're going to redefine, which the aff already regulates. who is or who is not a dealer, potentially you are looking at creating numerous ffls, licensees out of millions of american men and women. >> mr. clovis, you mentioned the polls. let me ask you about the numbers. it is amazing, all pundits have been wrong all along about your candidate. in the very early days. all of that has not proved.
i'm wondering, as you look closely at the numbers, do you see -- i mean, is he unlike any other candidate than you've ever been with, in terms of his ability to -- i mean people talk about teflon candidates, it almost doesn't matter. people said he went too fascial on john mccain. none of that turned out to be the case. do you see a level, a kind of support for him that you have not seen for other candidates? >> anderson, i think the very first time you interviewed me, i told you this is not a regular candidacy. this is not a norm at campaign, this is not ever been seen in the history of the united states. i've been watching politics since 1956. i've never seen anything like it. i certainly have never been socketed with anything like it. you cannot look at this campaign through the regular prism of what we've seen over the past
50, 60 years. you can't, because look at who is ahead? donald trump, ben carson, carly fiorina was up there for a while, ted cruz, and now we're starting to see that this is settling in. in fact if you look at the polls that came out today, anderson, donald trump, ben carson actually increased their numbers. >> yeah. >> over a month ago. so what's going on is not normal. this is not -- and everybody trying to pigeonhole this campaign and this candidate into a particular template is making a grave report. >> we've been to leave it there. >> we have seen celebrity candidates before. the difference -- when arnold schwarzenegger ran in california, he started off terrible and completely unprepared. he improved through the course of the campaign. we're not seeing that with trump. he's getting worse. >> i don't know about that. >> i totally disagree. unfortunately we're simply out of time.
i don't know that that's fair to say. >> he's telling more lies. >> well, unfortunately we do have to leave it there just for time, but to be continued, no doubt. sam clovis, i'm sorry if you weren't informed ahead of time, but i do appreciate you being on, as always. a wanted fugitive spotted tonight. we have new information on the manhunt for the no torious mexican drug lord el chapo. cliff jumping, helicopter gunfire, and much more. new information on this. (vo) what does the world run on?
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mexican authorities may be closing in on the world's most notorious drug lord. a mexican official say they spotted el chapo days ago. mexican marines gave chase, he fell off a cliff, injuring his face and possibly breaking his leg. martin salve itch is savidge is in mexico. >> reporter: authorities say they're close to recaptured. it's not easy. >> for security reasons, we have to keep a low profile, because the risk we face includes corrupt cops to an army of drug cartel informants who are looking out for just about everything we do. so times the video or the audio may not be quite as good as you're all cuss topped to, because we're using less than traditional means. >> last week official sill they
had nearly guzman cornering him in northwest mexico. reportedly mexican marines moved in from the air, getting so close he was injured in the frantic dash to get away, but he got away, much to government embarrassment. locals tell a different story. they describe a less precise military strike, with helicopters raining gunfire insdrim instantly down on homes, vehicles and people. guzman escaped from a mexican maximum security prison last july, literally under the guards ease foot through a mile-long tunnel. that isn't out of character for guzman, part of his drug lord success is due to the extensive use of turns to smuggle drugs into the united states. there's a reason the focus is -- it's a place where he obviously feels comfortable and where had was arrested before.
and then brought to that high-rise beachfront hotel, kept there for a couple days until authorities could arrange a safe transport back to mexico city. for all these reasons, authorities believe they are close, and the area remains on edge. everyone here knows it is an all-out effort to find the man called the most dangerous criminal in the world, who may be injured, desperate and possibly cornered. there there's a lot that could go wrong. anderson, one other thing that makes the search very difficult -- terrain. he knows this area. he grew up here. so he has every advantage. plus a lot of the local people here support him in many ways, even though many americans consider what he does is terrible, many here see him as part of the business, part of the economy and they're beholding to him for it. the federal police are out
looking. the local police who are looking at us, we're not looking at us for security or other reasons. >> be careful, you and your crew. that does it for us. we'll see you at 11:00, a cnn special errors q. the dc mansion murders" starts now. \s the following is a catherine special record. a tight-knit family. >> these are people that loved each other. >> living a dream. >> they were the perfect example of how you live life. >> until the unthinkable. >> this is one of the worst kinds of crimes that can possibly happen. >> the family and their housekeeper held hostage, tortured, and left for dead. >> only a psychopath could do something l