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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  October 26, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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the right decisions, who knows. but it didn't. and as a result, we will never truly know. thanks for watching. i'm faried zakaria. this is cnn breaking news. >> i want you to look at this video. we have new details on this video that is shocking america right now. the officer arresting a student in this south carolina classroom today has been named and we're learning more about him tonight. we're getting to all of that. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. it is the video that you have got to see to believe, caught on cell phone camera, a student at spring valley high school in columbia refuses to leave class after her teacher and a school administrator tell her to get out. the school officer identified as ben heels is called in. he reportedly says, quote, you're either going to come with me or i'm going to make you.
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when she stays seated, things go horribly wrong, as you can see. the girl is thrown several feet across the classroom. those details from cnn's affilia affiliate, wis, the superintendent of richland school district, too, says officials are working with the sheriff's department in this investigation the officer has been placed on administrative leave and we are getting new details about the officer as we go on the air right now. let's discuss this with steven gilchrist from the richland school district black parents' association and hugh harman. steven, your son attends this school, this high school. he knows the girl in this video. this incident happened earlier today. what do you know about what's going on here? >> well, don, first, let me thank you for allowing us to come on tonight. obviously, this is a very disturbing situation here in
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columbia, south carolina, with this student. my son was very disturbed by this episode of what happened at the school. and, you know, we're just praying not only for this family, but for our community to figure out how do we move forward with an issue like this and how do we address some of these issues that continuous -- that are continuous problems in our school district. >> yeah. we've got to get to the bottom of what happened in this particular issue. so as i said, your son attends this school. does your son know what happened? does anyone know about what took place just before this got physical, what brought it to this? >> phillip actually shared with me when he arrived home today that the situation had occurred and that he was somewhat disturbed by what he had heard and what he had seen on video. he was not present in the classroom where this student was
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located, but he was aware of the situation. so the details are still very fluid, don. obviously, all of us are seeing what has transpired with the video and we're just waiting for the -- more of the facts to come out. >> exactly. and, you know, i said earlier on cnn that a thorough investigation is needed in this and it is very -- it's horrible if you look at the video. but if this officer is to be prosecuted or found to do anything wrong, then a thorough investigation needs to be done again, it looks awful. i have to tell you this, we're get something new information in. this is what cnn has learned that fields hash the subject of two lawsuits in the last ten years that are relevant to this discussion, gentlemen. and the first lawsuit, a jury ruled in favor of fields, officer fields. this was back in 2007, a case that involved excessive force and battery. then there's a second case which is scheduled to go to trial in january, fields is one of several defendants listed in a suit filed by a student against the school district over his
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expulsion. what can -- do you know anything about this officer, dr. harman and any of these prior cases? >> these are revelations to me just as it is to you. this is the first time i'm hearing this. this is the first time i've heard his name. but since i've heard him name and spoken with some of the students at the school, the stories sound strikingly similar of his -- his violent nature, his poor relationship with some of the students. and this is according to students. but this information that you are just revealing to us is brand new to us. >> this is a statement from the richland county sheriff's department, okay? they released a statement. it says the sheriff has questions like everyone has and he wants answers and once he has those answers, he will address them. is sheriff is also, for everything -- asking for everyone to be patient as this is being fully investigated. the sheriff and the school district will take the
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appropriate action necessary once this investigation is complete. all the sros are at the schools for the safety of all students. these sros are held at a very high standard. the sheriff fully understands the seriousness of this incident. deputy ben fields will be placed on administrative duties. does this do anything for you as far as -- until this investigation plays out? does this appease you in any way until this investigation plays out, dr. harman? >> it really doesn't. just listening to the statement and what they're planning to do and then hearing what you said previous to that about him being involved in two other incidents, it kind of bodes not well with me. it doesn't sit well with me and it probably doesn't sit well with many parents to hear that this particular officer has been involved in violent altercations in the past and he's facing
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lawsuits. why was he still in the classroom? why was he still involved is in the school system? why is it now that we're making this decision to remove him from the schools? this should have been done a long time ago. >> in the first one, though, the jury ruled in his favor, in favor of the officer. the second one is still pending. the second one is, would you like to see an independent investigation here? >> you know, i certainly would like to see an independent investigation with this. as dr. harman mentioned a moment ago, this is the first time we've heard of some of these revelations regarding this stick officer. and certainly in light of that, we don't know what is going on in a number of our schools within this district and their relationship with many of our students as it relates to school resource officers. so, yes, i certainly would be in favor of a independence investigation. >> yeah. >> i agree, as well. >> do you know anything about the student or anyone in the
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class? you have children who go there. do they know this student personally? >> some of the students that my son knows knows the student very well. i happen to have another son though graduated from spring valley high school last year and he also knew the student. so yes, they know the student very well and it is a very unfortunate situation. >> how is she doing? >> have not spoken with anyone from the family at this point. so we haven't gotten any update about how she's doing at this point. >> stephen and dr. harman, thank you and appreciate it. would you please come back as this plays out? you know it's going be in the news for some time. again, our thanks for you coming on. >> sure. >> joining me now, i want to bring in david clinger, professor of criminology at the university of st. louis and the author of "into the kill," also reeb ya martin is here, bacari
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stiller, former members of the house of representatives. if you look at this video, bacari, it looks terrible. as this gentleman said, they would like to see an independent investigation, they want to get all the facts of this officer. what do you make of this situation, bacari? >> well, don, i'm sad to always be coming and talking with you when we have such disturbing occurrences. but this video is definitely disturbing. one has to say that. i don't believe the officer had to use the excessive force that he did use. the forewent in that classroom and it escalated from zero to 100 quickly. the officer had the opportunity to de-escalate the system and it and he didn't. it's disappointing. when you see those images and you know the progress we've made in south carolina and for one just colassal failure of judgment on the part of this officer and this assault on part of this officer to rip apart all that progress, it's saddening,
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it's maddening and frustrating. i mean, that officer had many other sthings he could have done other than put his hands on that young lady the way he did and toss her around the way he did. this young lady was arrested for resisting arrest, if i'm not mistaken or disturbing the peace. when you think about that and you think about that setting, even with those charges, she did not deserve to be tossed around the way she was and slammed the way she was by this officer. i don't think there's any execution for it and anybody that watch that's video and has an excuse for it, they need to reality themselves. >> ree va, we don't know what happened. as bacari, b he said he doesn't think there's any justification. do you think she was resisting arrest? >> even if she was resisting arrest, we do know the command to her was to leave the classroom. and i think it's a part of a bigger narrative that we're seeing played across the country. police give a demand and if there's not instantenou --
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defiance is a part of what makes teenagers teenagers. we don't want to see our kids in schools treated like criminal or to be criminalized because that will follow them, prevent them from getting into college, prevent them from gid getting jobs. and there's an alarming number of african-american students whose criminal records begin even before they graduate high school because of small and minor infractions like the one we saw in this videotape. we don't see any effort by this officer to engage with this student, call the parent, call a teacher or to build a rapport that would cause the young lady to follow the command, which is to leave the classroom. so very concerned about not only the violence used against her, but the criminal charges that were apparently filed in this situation. >> so when you look at the video, though, and this is, again, just from the video, it doesn't appear that anything is out of control in the moment
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with the video. we don't know what happened before, we don't know really what happened after. but it doesn't appear like the class is out of control or that anyone is at any harm or in harm's way. even the officer, the officer looks like he is in command of the situation. david, do you think that we need to wait for a full investigation or does this video speak for itself? >> i always say we have to wait for the full investigation. as you've pointed out, we don't know what happened beforehand. but what i can tell you is it literally makes no sense, as i'm looking at it, why he woulds can late to that point, pick her up, pick up the chair she's in, the desk she's in and toss her. it makes no sense. there may be some logical explanation, but i sure can't see it. even if some increment of force was legitimate at that point, it makes no sense to do what he did and i think the other point that one of your guests just made, i wouldn't use the exact same terms, de-escalation, but certainly verbalzation. talk to this person for a little
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while. try to understand what the issue is and talk to talk them out of the classroom. that leads to another issue that i and many people in my business and in law enforcement are concerned about the notion of criminalizing regular stuff that goes on in schools by having the sros who are initially put in there for two things, number one, to promote the safety of the students and number two, to build links between the cops and the kids. and seeing stuff like this going on is doing neither. and we really need to rethinking bringing the police in to manage disruptions in the classroom. i think we really need to -- we really need to think about that. it's not a good idea, in my humble opinion. >> what about the rest of the children in this classroom? what do you make -- it looks like they were just sitting there. they look like they were afraid. even the person who was a student taking the video, it looks like they were hiding it and putting it in their jacket or coat pocket. did you guys notice that? >> absolutely.
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>> what about the reaction of the rest of the students? >> just from what i understand, and the fact will come out, from what i've been able to gather here on the ground and in south carolina is a lot of this centered around this young lady and her cell phone. and i think the irony was this was recorded have i via cell phone. but you also see something that's even more troubling in that it's not necessarily passivity by the students, but they do remain seated, they remain calm. it's also as if they remain fearful. maybe they're immune because they've seen that type of violence in the school before, but they dare not act, they dare not flinch. many of the students, there's one in the front of the classroom that doesn't make eye contact with that officer as he's bugs this young girl. the facts we know, the charges she faces and the setting that she was in, and you look at all these things in its totality, you look at the fear in these students, and it makes for an awful, awful example of what an american classroom happens to be in 2015. >> and, again, as i have been saying and as the gentleman said
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before, and you guys, let's let the investigation play out to get all the information on this officer as much as possible before jump to go a conclusion. it is horrible. and it didn't appear that he needed to use that type of force. as we are learning new information about other cases that he has been involved in, all that we will find out once this investigation has played out, a full investigation. so stay with me, everyone. more to come on this shocking video. also this, as more incidents with law enforcement are caught on camera, is it having a chilling effect on some police? what is the director of the fbi say about the ferguson effect? we're going to tell you that. plus, the terrible toll of the iraq war and how it could be reshaping the race for the white house right now. also, the republican rival who might be the biggest threat to jeb bush and his presidential ambition. well, right now you can get 15 gigs for the price of 10. that's 5 extra gigs for the same price. so five more gigs for the same price? may i? 50% more data for the same price. now get 15 gigs for the price of 10.
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our panel is back. i've been wanting to talk to you guys about this, and i've heard for quite some time now, this so-called ferguson effect. bac ari, do you think such a thing exists? on friday, the fbi director james comey said the rise in highly publicized viral videos causing officers to pull back on their jobs, leading to an increase in crime. you and i talked about this during the issues in baltimore. do you buy that? >> not really. i mean, the facts are that violent crime in this country is actually decreased. i'm not necessarily certain where the director of the fbi
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got that statistic. but we know for a fact that violence crime has decreased. >> let me tell you what he will tell you. he will tell you the statistics lag behind what is actually going on, the numbers actually lag behind. maybe you'll see in a couple of motz you'll see an increase in crime. >> maybe we'll catch up and i'll give him that. however, i think what many people are pushing for is better policing. we're talking about demill tarzation, taking tanks and drones and those things off our community streets. we're talking about building relationshipes and rapports with individuals and their respective communities. officers can actually walk into a classroom. they know this young lady, they can talk to her, talk to her parents and get her out of her chair without violence. that's what we're talking about. we're talking about better practices and that's not what we're seeing in this country. we have to begin the conversation right now. >> david, what do you think? directorer comey had to admit today there is no real hard
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evidence so far. but he said it is common sense. i saw you shaking your head, the reporting often lags behind the actual numberes. >> absolutely. there's no doubt, at least in several major cities, serious violent crime has spiked in several cities, milwaukee, baltimore. obviously, at the same time, there's been more and more press coverage of the viral videos. so two things are happening in concert. is there a causation? who knows. and the kiemi intiming is going to play out for a little bit longer before we can have a sense, not just of the statistics, but in terms of trying to follow the trend lines and see what's going on. what we do know, at least anecdotally, brooke baldwins and others on your network have interviewed police officers who said they've pulled back. we have reviewed evidence that there is a bul pullback, we know officers are concerned and crime is up. is that a causal effect? i don't know. we have to wait for a while.
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as a social scientist, i say the high poth cyst is sound. let's see if the data supports it. >> reeva, several officers were involved, chicago, the mayor has said that. the director said he's spoken to officers. the officers are saying this. why shouldn't we believe that it's actually happening? >> well, i think one thing the criminology gists said that's important is that these are anecdotal stories and i think it's irresponsible for the fbi to make a statement without firm data to support it. even the justice department, as well as the president are backing -- really said that there is no support for this statement and caused the fbi director to back the statement up. and i think, don, what's troubling to me is that he made the statement at the same time he was talking about this all lives matter. so it seemed to be an undermining of a concept of black lives matter and a way to
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somehow take aim at that whole movement. because people seem to think that by saying black lives matters, sometimes we don't recognize all lives matter. but what they fail to realize is black lives matter is recognizing the historical difference, the disparities that african-americans face in a criminal justice system that can't be denied. it's totally different from any other racial group in this country. >> do we have the chris christie sound bite? let's listen to that. >> there's lawlessness in this country. the president encourages the lawlessne lawlessness. he encourages it. >> how sfwlp. >> he doesn't support the police. he justifies black lives matter. >> black lives matter shouldn't be justified? >> listen, i don't believe that movement should be justified in calling for the murder of officers. >> they're not calling for -- >> sure they are. they're chanting in the streets for murders of police officers.
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>> individuals are, but that's not -- >> go ahead, bakari and -- >> that's an absolutely absurd statement. >> and irresponsible. it's irresponsible for -- i'm sorry to cut you off. it's irresponsible for somebody running for president of the united states to make such an ignorant statement. that is not what black lives matter means at all. it's an im police yint two at the end 37 if he can recognize that black lives matter, maybe he can recognize all lives matter. >> and the president of the united states is not in any way inciting violence. that's ridiculous. >> go ahead, david. >> i think the rhetoric has run a little bit too far afield, shall i say. but i share the concerns about some elements in the black lives matter movement, if you're marching under a banner of black lives matter calling for the murder of police, pigs in a blanket frying like bacon, everybody knows what that means. i think that -- >> that is a horrible analogy. >> i've got to run, guys.
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but the leadership needs to step away from that. >> okay. i've got to run. thank you very much. we'll continue though conversation, of course, you guys are on all the time. up next, the iraq war and its impact on the 2016 presidential race. jeb bush has come to the defense of his brother, president george w. bush. but will that help or hurt his campaign? can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? when i was sidelined with blood clots in my lung,h. it was serious. fortunately, my doctor had a game plan. treatment with xarelto®. hey guys! hey, finally, somebody i can look up to... ...besides arnie.
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tonight, there was a special report on the terrible effects of the iraq war. faried is heif fareed is with me. let's start with you. it's good to have both of you. >> thank you. >> is it good, do you think, for the country that we are relitigating the iraq war right now? >> well, we're not really relitigating it, but you're certainly right, we're reanalyzing it because there are lots of people at this point, you know, donald trump has said on "60 minutes," he wants to go into iraq, put boots on the ground and fight isis there. in a sense, there is a call for
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a major new intervention. one of the questions we have to ask is why did the last one not work? we're not talking this time about a far distant country that's very different. we're talking about going into the same country fighting the same war. again, surely, we want to learn something this time around. >> yeah. i was sitting there watching it with one of my producers and we were all watching it and saying, this is so fascinating because we lived it, but when you consider the information we have now that we didn't have then and now that jeb bush is having to defend his brother. tony blair apologized. in your interview. what does this mean for his campaign that he's having to defend his brother? can he live this down, so to speak? >> i think it's very tough. i think that, you know, people say that bush -- george w. push is popular in the republican base. he's popular amongst some republicans, but there are an awful lot of republicans who are embarrassed by watching this and
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there's a sort of -- a sooeriesf so many errors. when they want to say obama is incompetent or something, this is a tough period to have to go through because it reminds you of how many mistakes -- you saw how order just collapsed in iraq. donald rumsfeld told the military, do not do anything and then he would say, stuff happens, freedom is difficult. it's difficult to say the bush administration made all the right decisions. >> right now, iraq is a training ground for terrorists. right now, libya -- nobody even knows libya. frankly, there is no iraq and there is no libya. it's all broken up, they have no control. >> so the world would be better off with saddam hussein and -- >> 100% as far as assad is concerned. >> what about the human --
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>> you don't think they're worse now? right noer, they're far worse than they were ever under saddam hussein or ka dad fee. >> there are plenty of voters who agree with donald trump. >> there are plenty of voters and there were plenty of voters at the time. remember george bush's secretary of state, collin powell basically had a view not so dissimilar. these guys are bad guys, but they're in a box. keep them in a box. he went out for a two or three-hour dinner with bush and tried to convince him. and that's why i think this is important. if collin powell was not able to convince bush at the time, we have all this history, all this knowledge, before the next guy wants to jump in, we should at least be sure what happened, why it didn't work, even if we're going to do stuff, at least how to do it better the next time. >> i want to go on and talk about the refugee crisis. >> go ahead. >> let's talk about that because conald trump made some comments
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about the refugee crisis that got my attention. >> would we be better off, as an example in iraq, what are we doing? what are we doing? the migration was caused by iraq. by libya. by this. we want to give people freedom? we're not going to have our own freedom pretty soon if we keep doing this. we're not going to have our own freedom. they don't want freedom. it's like i saw somebody -- i won't even say because it's embarrassing. the women over there don't have to wear the you know what. and then i said, well, that makes sense. that's nice. then i saw women interviewed. they said we want to wear it. we've worn them for thousands of years. they want to. what the hell are we gotting involved for? it's easier. you don't have to put on makeup. look how beautiful everyone looks. wouldn't that be easier? i'll tell you, if i was a woman, i'm ready, darling, let's go. it's true.
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>> we're sitting here laughing at it and i -- i ask marco rubio in the interview because trump had also said that this line about the hispanics love me and rubio said, this is donald being donald. and what you just don't know is when does it end? when does he cross the line? when isn't it okay any more? or is he like an entertainer or a comedian -- >> but to be fair, isn't there -- there is an element of real intelligence to what he's saying. there are a lot of people who say those are far distant cultures, why are we coming in there and imposing our values? i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but i'm saying as with everything trump says, there's always an intelligence -- >> and it's one of the most interesting things you've heard about foreign policy because he inserts some sort of humor in there. >> right. but if any or candidate said that, they would be out.
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>> by the way, the one thing i would correct him is under those burke kas, the women have a lot of makeups. they're really dold up. >> so
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veiled, painted you as barack obama 2.0. that you're young, inexperienced, first term senator. is jeb bush more experienced than you are? is that fair? >> well, i think there are people running more experienced on the issues we faced 35 years ago or 15 years ago. when it comes to the issue before america and the 21st century, there's no one running that understands or has shown better judgment on them than i have. so when people run for the presidency, they will say things because they think it gives them a competitive advantage. and that's fine. i understand the politics of it. but that's not not what the campaign is about. >> he's rising in the polls, but the gloves are coming off on both sides. >> he didn't seem -- he didn't even like those questions so much. >> no, i don't think so. >> but he answered it. thank you, jamie. thank you, fareed. the special report "the long road to hell america in iraq" reairs tonight at midnight, 9:00
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ben carson, opening up a substantial lead over donald trump in iowa and no surprise, trump is fighting back.
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former navy s.e.a.l., matt lewis is with us and author of "too dumb to fail." good to have all of you here tonight. carl, i want to start with you. recent following, trump v. carson, it shows carson is pulling away. if you look at it, there it is. why is ben carson gaining momentum in iowa? >> well, i think it's just like all the gop candidates right now. everyone is scrambling to beat the donald and nobody can do it. and the only thing is, he's doing what rick santorum did against mitt romney. he went hard line against abortion. he's trying to pander to that audience hoping iowa can make it cob tajus and it's just not going happen. >> is iowa is a good indicator of the rest of the country? >> no, i don't think so. >> yesterday on "meet the
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press," he said he would like to see roe v. wade overturned. these are strong statements that appeal to a certain segment of the republican party. do you think in a general election he will be able to make such statements? >> i think that's indicative of a lot of comments we've heard. that's quite common in the pro life community to talk about. i think pro lifers seeing themselves as modern day abolitionists. if you think this life begins at conception, the analogy isn't absurd and the fact that pro lifers are countercultural, fighting against the dominant culture. but i don't think ben carson needs to be out there talking like that. i'm a commentator, i can talk like that. i would advise him don't go there. >> do you agree, maria, do you think he should keep it simple? >> yeah, but it's also too late for that. i think those comments will actually help him in iowa where we know that the religion right has a big impact on who wins
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iowa. i think it's part of the reason why he -- his numbers are shooting up in iowa. i don't think people blief in iowa that the piebl is donald trump's favorite book, you but ben carson seems to be a much more credible messenger of the evangelical message. there is a dog whistle for that kind of voter, but when it comes to the general election, there will be a loud to the seven in ten amerians who believe abortion should be maintained safe and legal and they will hurt him in a general election. >> do you believe carson is better with its signaling to the republican party? >> absolutely not. i think what he's doing, again, it's the pander to a specific base just in iowa. he hopes to become contagious. but the state you're going ov overturn roev. wade, you're
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never going to overturn it. it's there. i think that's a politically inexperienced comment for him to make. >> it's giving trump something to attack him on, his religion. >> carson has been largely indicating through this. generally he's pretty likable. and i think trump is going to start swinging now. he's expanding his campaign into iowa and there's going to be a big swin for trump, too. >> he said there's something wrong with his energy. matt, today in new hampshire, trump said his dad gave him a small loan of $1 million. but the issue is that today that would be about $6.8 million. is that unreunrelateble? do you think that's causing hillary clinton to -- is she scripting her own ad now? >> absolutely. the thing that's happening right now is the problem with the primaries and republicans is the things that help you or don't hurt you in a primary kill you
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in a general. so i don't think 24 hurts donald trump in a primary. in a way, he's not apologizing for being rich ingratiates him with primary voters. but the way that trump says, it was a small loan of $1 million. the ads write themselves. does this hurt your guy? >> no, not at all, i don't think. that's the equivalent of -- this guy got a $1 million loan and he's turned it into over $4 billion? it's insignificant. >> but the average person out there who is going to be voting in a general election cannot identify with that. seems so -- it's stereo typical of what people think of rich republicans. >> yeah. i would love to have a $1 million loan from my dad. i don't know if my dad ever made $1 million over his lifetime. but listen, over the weekend, maria, bush cuts campaign costs and downsizes and this is what he said on saturday. listen to this. >> i got a lot of really cool things that i can do other than
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sit around being miserable, listening to people, demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. that is a joke. elect trump if you want that. >> wow. why would he say that? >> maybe it's -- >> yeah, you know what? it's -- it underscores, frankly, the whole mythology and caricature that donald trump is trying to put out there about jeb bush. he sounds whinny, he sounds weak and it sounds like he's campaign background a campaign that he thought he wasn't going to have to run. he that it he was going to be the front-runner. he thought he was going be the one that it was given to. he was supposed to be the smart one. it was supposed to be his turn. it sounds like he is complaining. 245 is not a -- >> i hate to agree with you, maria, but it do. >> maria, carl and matt, thank you. great panel. when he come back, the candidates pulling no punches as they battle for the white house. is that really what we want from
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are spending more time attacking each other as they are talking about issues facing america. as a man, we are destined to be better. that is p.b. jax, the author of destiny, step into your purpose that i cannot wait to read. so i know you don't like to -- you're not a political person. >> not really. >> you don't like to take sides and candidates. but there's been a lot of incivility that's happening out on the campaign trail. what do you make of what's happening right now? >> i think it's a distraction from the more important issues we face in terms of rehauling the criminal justice system, working on our educational program, providing equity for all people in this country, solving our immigration issues and yet we find ourselves battling like children in kindergarten. it's very disturbing to me. >> often when you come on, we talk about racial injustice. i'm not sure if you've seen this video. sth a school resource officer and his handling of a young lady
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there. he comes into the classroom. and i guess part of his orders were to remove the young lady. she ends up on the floor and shoved around, you know, being pushed and now there's an investigation and he is on administrative leave. what do you make of this? >> i don't know. that is my first time seeing the video. i haven't read up on it or anything like that. but i think we deserve as parents -- wow. amazing. we deserve as parents an opportunity to investigatie how our children are being treated and to make sure they get the same justice any other child can get. we've seen some of the most disturbing videos trending in this country that's very disturbing to me as a father and a grandfather to make sure our children are treated fairley. >> yeah. can we talk about about -- you know, we often talk about black lives matter. let's get that out of the way and i want to talk about destiny. there has been a lot of consternation about the tactics
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of black lives matter and what it means and all lives matter and all of that. and i know that you have an opinion about all that. >> well, i have the opinion that all lives do matter, but i get what people are saying when they say black lives matter. >> there's a distinction. >> in fact, i participated in it. i put it on our website and supported it when it initially came out. and as it went on down the road, the semantics distracted from the incivility that we're seeing. are the sa maptices exactly the way they could be? we could call it something else, but a rose by any other name is still the same thing. and why he end of the day, i don't think we ought to be fighting about the name, we ought to be fight background the issues. >> know what's happening. >> exactly. >> you and i definitely -- you and i talk about the issues and part of -- i believe part of my purpose is to get people to have that trigger in my mind that gets them from thinking they are
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oppressed and always a victim to they are the destiny, the captain of their ship and regardless of what they -- is is they are facing, that they can overcome them. it doesn't mean the circumstances aren't real. >> the circumstances are real and it may be somebody's destiny to change the circumstances. but everybody is not a politician or a police officer. this is about finding out who you are organically and not only finding out who you are but setting a goal as to what your destination is and having the courage to ask yourself, are your actions a reflection of your vision or your circumstances? >> and how do you do that? >> i honestly say destiny leaves clues and one of the clues that destiny leaves behind that helps us to navigate and better under what our purpose is to check our passions. and by passions, i mean what ignites you, what motivates you, what makes you creative when you're doing it? for some people, it's working with children. for other people, it may be
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building things. foreother people, it may be working for civil rights or equity. but that thing that makes you creative and gets you out of bed in the morning and that you would do without pay, that's the trajectory that begins to give you some sort of clue as to what the direction of your destination is. >> how much of it is destiny and how much of it is free will? >> well, that's a big theological debate. what i'm looking at is finding out what your passion is and then finding out your purpose. your passion is your conviction about it. your purpose is why you do it. your destiny is where. okay? and if you're saying that that destiny could be aborted, i think in some cases, it could be b aborted. i'm not talking about as it relates to eternal life. i'm talking about careers, i'm talking about future, home ownership, i'm talking about making your mark in live. those are two different things from destiny as it relates to theological issues. >> you have a lot coming up and also on this network there's going to -- we'll talk about it. we're going to see a lot of him
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and together coming up. thank you. >> my pleasure. >> the book is deafny, step into your purpose. we'll be right back. ♪ the way i see it, you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid...
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i'll see you back here tomorrow night. ac 360 starts right now. good evening. thanks for join iing us. we begin with breaking news and some video that might not be easy to watch, especially if you're parent with a child in school. two views of a single violent movement in a high school classroom in northeast columbia, south carolina. here is the first. that is

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