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tv   Anderson Cooper 360 Post Debate Special  CNN  October 28, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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>> i'm don lemon. thanks for watching. good night. good evening. thanks for joining us. welcome to a special edition of "ac 360."
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tonight, the republican debate in boulder, colorado, the first one without a clear front-runner. the first since donald trump lost his lead in iowa. there's a lot at stake for everyone voed. cnbc hosted it. questions on how the candidates would handle the economy dominated it. before we bring in our team of election professionals, fact checker, campaign launchers, here are some of the highlights. >> this is the man that was a managing general partner at lehman brothers when it went down the tubes and almost took every one of us with us, including ben and myself, because i was there, and i watched what happened and lehman brothers started it all. he was on the board, and he was a managing general partner and just thirdly, he was so nice. he was such a nice guy, and he said oh, i'm never going to attack, but then his poll numbers tanked. he's got -- that's why he's on the end, and he got nasty.
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and he got nasty. so you know what? you can have him. >> i wasn't on the board of lehman brothers. i was a banker, and i was proud of it and i traveled the country and leard how people make jobs. we ought to have politicians not only with government experience but know how the ceos and the job creators work. my state is doing great across the board, and guess what. in 2011 i got -- >> governor, we've spent a lot of time on this. >> it's a joke. >> i'm a fighter. i am passionate about what i believe. i've been passionate my whole life about the constitution and for six and a half years we've had a gigantic party. if you want someone to grab a beer with, i may not be that guy, but if you want someone to drive you home i will get the job done and i will get you home. >> but marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term and you should be showing up to work. literally, the senate, what is it like a french workweek, you get three days where you have to show up. you can campaign or just resign or let someone else take the job. there are a lot of people living
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paycheck to paycheck as well and are looking for a senator that will fight for them each and every day. >> i get to respond, right. >> 30 seconds. >> well, it's interesting. over the last few weeks i've listened to jeb as he walked around the country and said you're modeling your campaign after john mccain, that you're going to launch a furious comeback the way he did, by fighting hard in new hampshire and places like that, carry your own bag at airport. you know how many votes john mccain missed when he was carrying out that furious comeback. >> he wasn't my congressman or senator. >> i don't ever remember you complaining about john mccain's vote record. the only reason you're doing it to it now is because we're running for the same position and someone has convinced you that attacking me is going to help you. >> yes, i was fired over a disagreement in the board room. there are politics in the board room as well and yet the man who led my firing, tom tony perkins, an icon of silicon valley, has come out publicly and said you know what, you were wrong. she was right. she was a great ceo.
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she would be a great president of the united states because the leadership she brought to hp section act lit leadership we need in washington, d.c. >> mr. fiorina, it's interesting that you bring up mr. perkins because he said a lot of very questionable things. last year in an interview he said that he thinks wealthy people should get more votes than poor people. i think his quote was if you pay zero dollars in taxes you should get zero votes. if you pay a million dollars you should get a million votes. is this the kind of person -- >> this is why mr. perkins and i had problems in the board room, becky. >> let me say something at the outset. the questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the american people don't trust the media. this is not a cage match, and you look at the questions, donald trump, are you a comic book villain? ben carson, can you do math? john kasich, will you insult two people over here? marco rubio, why don't you resign. jeb bush, why have your numbers fallen? how about talking about the substantive issues people care about. [ cheers and applause ] >> we're clearly not having that beer that you mentioned, but
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i'll give you 30 more seconds -- >> but i'll buy you a tequila or even some famous colorado brownies. >> i'll give you 30 seconds to respond. >> you find a democrat that's for cutting taxes, cutting spending $10, i'll give them a warm kiss. >> thank you, governor. >> carl. >> there's a company called manatech, a maker of nutritional supplements with which you had a ten-year relationship. they offered claims that they could cure autism, cancer. they paid $7 million to settle a deceptive marketing lawsuit in texas and yet your involvement continued. why? >> well, that's easy to answer, i didn't have an involvement with them. that is total propaganda. >> to be fair, you were on the home page of their website with the logo over your shoulder. >> if somebody put me on their home page they did it without my
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permission. >> does that not speak to your vetting process or judgment in any way? >> it speaks to the fact that i don't know those folks. see, they know. >> apparently. >> i had a lot of student loans when i got out, too, but you've had a windfall that a lot of americans haven't, made over $1 million off a book deal. >> and i used it to pay off my loans and it's available in paperback if you're interested in buying it. >> a lot to talk about with the panel of experts, partisan and non-partisan. first the non-partisans, michael smerconish, cnn political reporter nia-malika henderson and john king of "inside politics" chief analyst gloria borger and david axelrod, former chief adviser of president obama. david, let me start with you. what moments stood out for you tonight? >> it's been true for several cycles is you want to get a big hand at a republican debate go after the media, and i think ted
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cruz did that to great effect tonight. he repeat the the moment that newt gingrich had four years ago in which he brought the house down by going after the media. marco rubio started it in response to a question about his attendance, and i actually think those two guys have a good night. i have a humility in judging these republican debates now because i've been misled at times by my own reaction. the one thing i feel pretty sure about tonight is the certain loser in tonight's debate was jeb bush. i think he had a very bad moment with marco rubio, very passive most of the night. john kasich stole the governing
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conservative mantle away from him or the lead mantle, and i think a lot of his supporters will be very, very glum tomorrow morning. >> i want to get quick feedback from all of you. your impressions, michael in. >> he stole all my lines. i want to make sure i'm locked in. i think it was a kasich night. i think it was definitely a night for ted cruz to display those princeton debate skills that we always heard that he had, but we frankly hadn't seen them. i also concur that it was a bad night for jeb bush because like kasich he tried to step out, but rubio confronted him and that punch just did not land, and the counterattack did, so marco rubio had a good night. john kasich had a good night. ted cruz had a good night. jeb had the worst night. >> let's play that exchange between marco rubio and jeb bush because clearly that was something that jeb bush tried to be aggressive with marco rubio and marco rubio came back at him. let's play that. >> i'm a constituent of the senator and i helped him and i expected that he would do constituent service which means he shows up to work. he got endorsed by "the sun sentinel" because he's the most talented guy in the field and he's a talented politician. marco, when you signed up for this, this is a six-year term and you should be showing up to work. literally, the senate, like a french workweek and you get
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three days where you have to show up. you can campaign or just resign or let someone else take the job. there are a lot of people living paycheck to paycheck in florida as well and looking for a for that will fight for them each and every day. >> i goat respond. >> 0 seconds. >> over the last few weeks i've listened to job as he walked around the country saying he's modeling his campaign after john mccain, you'll launch a furious comeback like he did by fighting hard in new hampshire and carrying your own bag at the airport. you know how many votes john mccain missed when he was carrying out the furious comeback. >> he wasn't my congressman or senator. >> i don't remember you ever complaining about john mccain's vote record. the only reason you're doing it now is because we're running for the same position and somebody has convinced you attacking me will help you. my campaign is about the future of america, not attacking anyone else on the stage. i'll continue to have tremendous admiration for governor bush. i'm not running against governor bush. i'm not running against anyone on the stage. i'm running for president because there's no way we can
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elect hillary clinton to continue the policies of barack obama. >> clearly seems like a moment marco rubio was ready for. >> the only question we knew was coming tonight was that question because in broward county, florida, "the sun sentinel," a significant newspaper, had endorsed him in the past and wrote a very stinging editorial that said you really ought to resign because you're not there and they laid out the attendance record and he was obviously well prepared. what we didn't know is that jeb bush would be the one who would try to play that card. as i say, he did it ineffectively. >> nia, interesting to hear two establishment candidates going after each other. >> and two friends. >> not anymore. >> not anymore, this idea that jeb bush was sort of the mentor for marco rubio and in his tone jeb bush had this almost scolding fatherly tone and he was like you can show up for work, son, and marco rubio turned it into not only an attack on hillary clinton but an attack on the media and also an attack on jeb bush, this idea that someone had told him that it was a good idea to make this attack that was purely political. >> john.
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>> ladies first. >> i think it kind of shakesperean what's going on between these two folks, right? jeb was the mentor to marco rubio. rubio tells the truth when he says somebody told you that it would be good for you to attack me. jeb is not natural when he attacks. there's something kind of awkward about it. you know, the french workweek line was canned, planned, whatever, and he's really not good at delivering those attacks. he doesn't like it. it's not joyful for him, and it kind of showed and -- >> it certainly didn't work. >> right. >> and the bush campaign knew how much pressure they faced coming into this debate. he has flatlined. marco rubio has caught up to him. they are competing for the same space, the establishment candidate in the race. governor kasich as well. competing for a lot of the same money and a lot of florida donors friends with both of them going to jeb first but they are saying come on, governor, you're the front-runner and show us the fight to be in this. he's had to make the rubio is obama argument, why do we want to send another freshman senator to washington. he's not ready to be president. that could be a stronger argument. republicans have argued for the
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past seven years that obama wasn't ready for the job. rubio's attendance issue may well be a factor in the campaign but in the debate tonight game, set, match. >> and i want to bring in jeffrey lord, trump supporter and a former ted cruz contributor and writer. >> could somebody please just get me that tequila. >> and donna brazile. >> i'm going to give her the marijuana. >> ana, you can't dodge it any longer. how do you think your guy did tonight? >> i think the mets are doing very, very well tonight. i do hear that the kansas city royals are up. look, i want to tell, you know, axelrod you don't have to wait until tomorrow morning for jeb bush supporters to be glum. i'm pretty damn glum tonight. i think marco rubio is a masterful debater, very, very good and quick on his feet. you're going to attempt to land a punch you've got to do it well, and, you know, it didn't happen. i can't believe that one of the best moments that marco had was actually handed to him by jeb. i think we have elevated. i think jeb has elevated marco with, you know, with these attacks, and i think that
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frankly, you know, he's got to take the next ten days before the next debate which is november 10th and, you know, pretty much lay off every other damn thing and dedicate himself to really figuring out how to dominate in debates. >> amanda, your former boss ted cruz had good moments particularly going after the media. >> ana may be feeling the burn because the biggest loser in the debate and you'll see it in conservative media tomorrow is the cnbc debaters and that's what happened ted cruz and marco rubio to have a good night because they were able to take advantage of the moments, read the crowds and sense that they were having difficulty and were getting mad at the moderator's questions and gave them the red meat that they wanted and were able to elevate it in a way, especially ted cruz, and unify the candidates by saying we're all getting picked on together and i'm the guy that's going to unify us and take the fight to the democrats who deserve it. >> i will say from a moderator standpoint if you're going after a candidate with a quote that
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they have said, you better have that quote ready because when donald trump said i never said that about marco rubio, the moderator said i'm not sure where i saw that. >> and then to come back two commercial breaks later here's where i got it from. >> and it was from his website. >> let's play that ted cruz moment you were talking about, amanda. >> let me say something at the outset. the questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the american people don't trust the media. [ applause ]
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this is not a cage match, and you look at the questions. donald trump, are you a comic book villain? ben carson, can you do math? john kasich, will you insult two people over here? marco rubio, why don't you resign. jeb bush, why have your numbers fallen? how about talking about the substantive issues people care about. [ cheers and applause ] >> do we get credit for this one. >> carl, i'm not finished yet. the contrast with the democratic debate where every fawning question from the media was which of you is more handsome and wise? >> so this is the question about the debt limit which you have 30 seconds left to answer. should you choose to do so. >> let me be clear. the men and women on this stage
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have more ideas, more experience, more common sense than every participant in the democratic debate. that debate reflected a debate between the bolshevics and the menshovics. >> clearly a line thought out in advance. a powerful line, no doubt for his supporters. >> jeffrey, what stood out to you? >> you know, a few weeks ago donald trump observed that when marco rubio and jeb bush were professing friendship and mentorship they didn't mean a word of it, and there we are tonight right in front of everybody sort of confirming what he said. one of the other things i thought was interesting with donald trump this evening was that when he went after governor kasich on his relationship to lehman brothers, and if you noticed the sort of similarity between the attacks on the media, that attack from donald trump of all people, major league capitalist on the banks and then we get what's going on in the house with speaker boehner and we get to the whole
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trump/carson thing and if you noticed at one point after that attack on john kasich trump turned to ben carson and winked which i thought says a lot, you know, about what's going on. >> trump and kasich went after each other relatively early on before lehman brothers. let's play that. >> first of all, john got lucky with a thing called fracking, okay? he hit oil. he got lucky with fracking. believe me, that's why ohio is doing well, and that's important you to know. number two, this is the man that was a managing general partner at lehman brothers when it went down the tubes and almost took every one of us with us, including ben and myself because i was there and i watched what happened, and lehman brothers started it all. he was on the board, and he was a managing general partner. and just thirdly, he was so nice. he was such a nice guy, and he said oh, i'm never going to attack, but then his poll numbers tanked and he's --
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that's why he's on the end. and he got nasty. and he got nasty, and you know what. you can have him. >> let me -- let me just -- let me respond. first of all, ohio does have an energy industry, but we're diversified. we're one of the fastest growing states in the country. we came back from the dead, and you know what. it works very, very well and secondly when you talk about me being on the board of lehman brothers, i wasn't on the board of lehman brothers. i was a banker and i was proud of it and i traveled the country and learned how make people jobs. we ought to have politicians who not only have government experience but know how the ceos and the job creators work. my state is doing great across the board, and guess what. in 2011 i got -- >> governor, governor, i'm sorry, we're out of time. >> he tried to take credit for it four years later. it's a joke. >> who came out of that better? >> i think trump did. i mean, there's two times this evening where a candidate turned to another candidate and says i know the only reason you're attacking me is because you're low in the polls. marco said it to jeb and he said because a consultant told you to say that. those were big applause lines and it speaks to the gop
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electorate who sees through these attacks. they would much rather have candidates who voice a positive message about their agenda rather than just attacking others all the time. >> it speaks to the calendar. we've had this is the third debate and we're now 95 days from people voting. that's a big difference because now you have to start spending money on the ground, start spending money on television and start making really key choices, especially if you're a kasich or jeb bush maybe even now who might not have as much money. who might not be able to think six months down the line and think am i going to stay in iowa? carson seems to be calling us evangelicals, let's get out of iowa. >> right. >> do i go to new hampshire, if you're donald trump where you're ahead in new hampshire right now, john kasich is working that state very hard and he said nasty things and is that why you're going after john kasich. the chess is getting more complicated and you now have to make more strategic decisions about your time and money. >> we'll look at numbers closely with john the two hours we're on the air tonight. stick around. we'll hear a lot more from all of our panel and the people of coming up next who will have the final say, some on what to say what they thought, randi kaye talks to voters who will vote. that's coming up next on "ac
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tonight's cnbc debate wrapped up focusing heavily on business. here's a key question to carly fiorina about her record at hp and her departure from it. >> yes, i was fired over a disagreement in the board room. there are politics in the board room and yet the man who led my firing tom perkins, an icon of silicon valley, has come out publicly and said, you know what. we were wrong. she was right. she was a great ceo. she'd be a great president of the united states because the leadership she brought to hp is exactly the leadership we need in washington, d.c. >> mrs. fiorina, it's interesting that you bring up mr. perkins because he said a
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lot of very questionable things. last year in an interview he said he thinks wealthy people should get more votes than poor people. i think his quote was if you pay zero dollars in taxes you should get zero votes and if you pay $1 million you should get a million votes. >> this is one of the reasons why mr. perkins and i had disagreements in the board room, becky. >> joining us is rana and also bring back michael smerconish and nia-malika henderson and gloria borger. >> who stood out to you? >> fiorina was on earlier. she's pretty slick all things considered and her record, she just can't keep defending it, the idea that, you know, she is a business leader that has created jobs and has the leadership skills to be effective in washington is just ridiculous. i think this debate showed that. i think rubio really did very well, although i think all in all most of the candidates didn't put through any real common sense economic plans.
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heard a lot about tax cuts achieving growth when in fact the last several decades shows that's not the case. clinton raise the taxes in '93. he got great growth. george w. bush cut them in 2001, 2003 and he got very meager growth. same thing with obama's post-financial crisis tax cut. that really doesn't work and that's not a selling point for the american public at this stage. you also heard rubio saying things like the cost of goods is getting higher. in fact, we have almost no inflation. so in terms of debating style maybe he won but in terms of economic wisdom i didn't see anybody come ahead lately. >> also want to spring in donna brazill and jeffrey lord and ana navarro. what stood out for you? >> it was a missed opportunity for the republicans who one of their strengths is always talking about how they can grow the economy. they know how to fix things.
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well, tonight was the opportunity to talk to that fast food worker, to talk to home health care workers. they had an opportunity to reach the voters that typically don't listen to politics but they could have said something about job growth, you know, raising their wage, and i think -- >> they didn't get asked the question. they got asked what their biggest weakness was. >> it's not about responding the question you're asked but having a message to those voters and they didn't talk about the middle class so i think it was a missed opportunity for the republicans. >> i think john kasich honestly was the one candidate out there who did when he was asked what his greatest weakness was. he sort of went bullworth on everybody and said we're on the verge of picking someone who can't do the job. we've got people on this stage who want to dismantle medicaid and medicare. we've got people on this stage who want to deport 11 million people. >> you know what's interesting. nobody here on this panel has talked about dr. ben carson and i'm wondering what that says. looking at the latest polls he's now in the lead within the margin of error with donald trump.
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>> one of the most shocking moments is when ben carson was scad about his economic plan. this is a cnbc debate and they were told they wanted to talk about tax policy. ben carson couldn't explain what his tax rate would be. between 10% and 15%. the math works. the moderator said i did the math. that was the worst moment of the debate. something so central to the republican philosophy, tax reform, had a front-runner who failed utterly at it the. >> i was very curious to see what the dynamic was going to be between carson and trust. we've seen trump going after him in the last couple of days, since his poll numbers have gone down and yet he didn't lay a finger on him. he was winking at the guy which i think was very smart of donald trump because people like ben carson so i think -- >> even some of his answers at the debate got big applause when he sort of pulled back from the vitriol on the stage and kind of
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focused big picture again, not a lot of details on that and you're looking at the view in the spin room which is the most honest thing in politics, the fact that they actually call it the spin room. that's exactly what it is >> you know, at the beginning carson kind of signaled to trump. he said i'm not going to attack. i'm not going to get down, and the minute he said that. >> right. >> i think trump is so smart that he kind of knew that that wasn't going to work for him. >> but in talking to people before this debate they said they were ready to challenge trump in terms of being stroing on the economy. this, of course, is supposed to be trump's big positive and his area of the economy and big business but he just sort of failed. >> i want to check in with dana bash. dana, what's the reaction so far
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that you're hearing? >> reporter: hi there, that's right. let me start that ben carson has reporters, and i expect him to o come around the corner so when he does i'm going to try to stop him and talk him so i'll sort of interrupt myself, but to answer your question we had a remarkable thing and i know we'll try to turn the tape around for everybody that the republican national committee chair just came out and blasted the network cnbc. >> wow. >> as having gotcha questions and completely having what they call a rubik's cube of gotcha questions and walked away and didn't take questions from us. it was kind of remarkable, and you know what. i'm going to stop and tell you that ben carson is on his way to me. dr. carson. dr. carson. dr. carson. dr. carson.
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>> let me just start by asking you, you made pretty clear at the beginning that you were not going to counterpunch donald trump, even though he's been really tough on you in the campaign trail. why did you take that tack? >> well, it seems to be working because he seems to be moderating and other people seem to be moderating. i want people to really start talking about the issues, you know. right now we're in a situation where our whole financial foundation is on very shaky ground. we're in a situation where we are in danger because of islamic jihadists. we're in a situation where our electrical grid is very vulnerable, where we've, you know, created a situation that doesn't produce entrepreneurial risk-taking and capital investment. you know, these are big problems that can have a devastating effect on us.
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we need to talk about those. >> sure. you can talk about the issues. you can talk about the issues. >> we really did not get into those issues the way we need to. i mean, when a debate becomes more of a you said this and rather than how do we actually solve these problems? >> you know, one -- one -- dr. carson, one of the big questions was going to be whether or not you would be able to keep what really is now your front-runner status. do you feel coming out of this that you're still going to be able to stay on top. >> you know what i always say. when i was a surgeon i would say to people why guess when soon you'll know. >> and soon we will know. no doubt about that. >> reporter: it's a little bit of a mosh pit as you can see. it's a little bit of a mosh pit. we have all the candidates coming out here. i'll toss it back to you. >> we're going to turn around the sound from reince priebus, i think we'll have that and stick around with that and then we'll talk with our panel. let's play what reince priebus said, the head of the rnc, said a few moments ago. >> i was proud of our candidates
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for standing up to a pretty hostile environment. i was very disappointed in the moderators. i'm disappointed at cnbc. i thought maybe they would bring forward a pretty fair forum here tonight, but i think it was one gotcha question, one personal low blow after the other. it's almost like they tried to design a rubik's cube for every question to take the worst element i think of what moderators and what the media should bring to the table, and all i can tell you is that while i'm proud of our candidates for pretty much sticking together, i'm very disappointed in the moderators, and i'm very disappointed with cnbc. thank you. >> dana, that is the last thing as a network or as a moderator you want to hear from the head of the rnc and it goes to amanda carpenter's point which is that tomorrow people will be talking about this. reince priebus is talking about it tonight. i've never seen that.
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>> reporter: i've never seen it either. he was getting right in front of me when he said that, and he did not look happy in attorney, and i'm sure that came across through the camera. you know, it's very unusual, and when you think about it, and we know this, that the republican national committee takes sort of great pains in choosing who they partner with to do these debates. this was not just sort of a happenstance that cnbc got this debate. it was a decision, a joint decision between cnbc and the republican national committee. reince priebus approved having this debate at cnbc so, you know, he can complain about it, but, you know, be interesting to see what really want on behind the scenes when it came to the discussion. you've done a debate, i've been involved. it's true it might be their debate but they don't have any clue about the kinds of
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questions that we are going to ask, and i'm sure that that's the case for cnbc, but for him to come out and blast the network i was pretty surprised. >> before this debate, you know, a lot of conservatives were blaming the rnc for even partnering with cnbc and not having a conservative partner in this debate, conservative questioner, you heard donald trump talking about larry kudlow and others who could have been there, it's a little disingenuous what reince priebus was doing there and this was his agreement. >> i don't think so at all. i think if you ask the three of us, the three republicans sitting here that we would say to you that reince priebus is speaking for all of us. >> yes. >> though you can't ask specific questions or suggest specific questions certainly there are parameters of general topics and what we were expecting was a serious policy discussion on economic issues. >> not to say this on cnn about
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cnn, but the day after the cnn debate with -- in california, rush limbaugh was on the air and he also when you did the democratic debate, i think he also congratulated you. i mean, when you get rush limbaugh to be saying good things, if i may, about cnn, you know, you've got something going here, and hugh hewitt's presence i must say also was i think a contributing factor and why cnbc didn't learn this. they had larry kudlow right there. i don't understand why he wasn't on the panel. >> the democrats -- it's funny because when you think about a democratic debate and we have to come up with solutions and ideas, you ask great questions and you got a great response. we had an exchange on gun safety and on climate and many candidates but i don't think the candidates came to talk about their policies. >> hold on. one at a time. >> donna, you had four
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candidates and a block of granite. >> amanda, i disagree. ted cruz wrote out a brand new tax plan. there will be an op-ed because he wanted to talk about it tonight, 10% flat tax and wiping out deductions and back to the cnbc question, it would make sense that the rnc would partner with them. they are a network that covers the business side of america. there were quibbles about john harwood and the environment is never going to be completely favorable. they have to rise above it and marco and ted did. >> dana is going to talk to donald trump i believe. let's see if he talks to
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reporters. >> mr. trump. mr. trump. >> looks like he's going to talk a little bit down there. see if he comes closer to the microphones a little further down here. john, i mean, this is -- for those who are watching. i mean, all the candidates come to the spin room for a short period of time just to kind of get their point across and get themselves in front of the cameras before taking off. >> they come in and said one or two things to say. some candidates doesn't come and send their senior staff in. >> mr. trump, we're live on cnn. >> what was it like to have a target on you tonight? >> let's listen in. >> i thought it was a really exciting debate. >> mr. trump. >> much better than the hillary debate but i had a good time. >> was it tough not to be the star tonight? >> i don't know what you mean by the star. >> like the focus, like all the questions weren't at you. >> well, it's become very unfair. i think that i did very well.
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according to all of the online polls i got 80% as a win so, i mean, hundreds of thousands of people are sending their numbers in, and according to every single online in i'm 70%, 80% with a win. i thought it was great. i thought i did well and i thought everyone did well. i really enjoyed the debate. >> mr. trump, mr. trump. >> why do you think the media went after -- >> the media went after the -- the media really went after the moderators and the i understand that. some of the questions weren't fair and much tougher than hillary got. >> mr. trump, we're live hon cnn. one quick question. i saw that you winked at dr. carson as if you kind -- >> we have a very good relationship. i like dr. carson a lot. we have a very good relationship. >> you've been pretty tough on him on the campaign trail. >> i have a lot of respect for him. >> were the moderators unfair to you. >> it's interesting to hear him now basically spinning this in the spin room, fair enough, because he has been tough on him over the last couple of days in the campaign trail. >> but it isn't working for him. >> right. >> so, you know, he's clearly made a decision that carson is very well liked and there's no point in attacking him at this point, and i would also say one other thing about donald trump. he was attacking the debate before it occurred. >> yeah. >> attacking the questions before they were asked. >> got to take a quick break. just ahead how voters saw this, a focus group in florida. we'll be right back. i am totally blind. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day.
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welcome back. i want to go to dana bash who is joining us in the spin room again. dana. >> reporter: hey there, anderson. i have governor kasich here. stand by. he just got grabbed by somebody else while we were in a break but i've got him right now. we're live now, steve. thank you. governor, you had quite a moment with donald trump when he kind of, you know, went after you about fracking and everything else. >> i went after him actually. i think what got him all revved up is i said fantasy land is over. you can't keep making stuff up and dreaming up these programs that just don't work, and so i don't think we can send 10
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million people out of this country and leave their kids here. i don't think we should think about abolishing medicare. we need to reform medicare but we're not going to abolish it, and these tax schemes, they cost trillions of dollars. i'm for tax cuts but let's be real. we don't need to put our kids in debt again so i think what happened tonight is i was able to say on the stage that we're going to be real about things. we're not just going to make up numbers or make up stories, and i'm just going to keep doing it, and people say why? why did you change? because i got to the point where i'm sort of fed up with this, and i think people need to know what the truth is from somebody who has the experience. >> that was going to be my question. it wasn't that long ago that i tried to ask you not personality conflict questions but policy contrast questions, and you would not bite. you wouldn't go there at all and now this is a very different john kasich. >> first of all, it's a john kasich you've known all of my adult life.
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>> that's very true. a very different john kasich 2016. >> when i hear a candidate talking about eliminating medicare and medicaid it sets off an alarm, hearing someone say they are going to send tens of millions out of the country and break up families, enough. looking at tax schemes, at some point you get to the tipping point where you see people need to know what the truth is. >> and it's a way to try to get traction, right? >> look. people in the press say was this plan the, was this a scheme? no, i was talking to my supporters in ohio and frankly i had been getting more and more fed up listening to this stuff, and i had a lot of people encourage me -- in fact, i got a call from a former senator today that would say would you stand up and be an adult and that's what i tried to do tonight and i think i was successful, and you're going to see more of it. >> thank you, governor.
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nice to talk to you. appreciate it. >> back to you, anderson. >> dana, thanks. i want to go to david axelrod. david, i'm curious, what do you think is the political calculus for the non-front-runners, if you're not dr. carson, if you're not donald trump. is it the hope that maybe carson fades after iowa, that you can kind of pick up stuff in south carolina or elsewhere. where do they see the lane for themselves that they are sticking with it? >> you have to view the republican field, anderson in two columns. there's the anti-government populist right and then there's the center right governing conservatives, bush, rubio, kasich, to some degree governor christie is in that governing conservative category. carson obviously, trump, and then ted cruz is in that other column. you would think huckabee in there i guess as well, and so the real guy to watch in my view is ted cruz. he had a good night tonight.
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he has lots of resources that he's sitting on. he's very well organized in many of these states, and i think that he is -- he is the guy who is anticipating that the others will lose altitude in his column and he will win. the other question is who rises? i would like to mention marco rubio who probably has leaped to the front of the glass. >> i've got to go to dana who has jeb bush. go ahead, dana. >> reporter: hi there, anderson. governor, thank you so much for doing this >> i'm sure you haven't seen the buzz on line, but there's a lot of buzz that the moment where you went after marco rubio turned out to be a moment for marco rubio and not you. >> well, we'll see. the simple fact is that he has the worst attendance record in the united states senate, plain and simple and now has an unprecedented editorial of a major newspaper saying he should resign and continue his campaign. if he's not going to resign he should show up and vote and i believe that's the way we should be doing this. he got elect the. i supported him and a lot of other people did to serve the people of the state of florida. when i was governor, i had a countdown clock.
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i worked each and every day to the last minute serving for the people i cared for and love. i know marco lovers the people in florida and should be able to go to work, go to committee hearing and fight for the military families worried about whether there's going to be a budget or not and not consider something that's not funny anymore and he doesn't have to do it. >> now, when he responded to, that part of what he said was that, you know, you're probably saying things because somebody told you to say so politically. you didn't get at chance to respond in the debate so respond now. >> look, his record of attendance was low prior to his announcement of his campaign, and i just think that's wrong. i think you have to have a cervantes heart when you're in these positions of responsibility or to say it's not funny any more or not enjoyable anymore, you know,
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tough luck. a lot of people are working really hard paycheck to paycheck. sometimes they don't think their jobs are going great either but they roll up their sleeves each and every day and continue to work, even if it's not the best job that they have. i just think, frankly, that people either should resign to run for another office which is what the law was in florida or ought to have a deduction in their pay. >> reporter: one thing for you to think that and another thing for to you say it publicly the way you did tonight. i think that that was the point that rubio is making that it's just politically motivated because, you know, this has to be a moment for you to break out. >> i'm going to break out by campaigning hard in new hampshire, iowa, in south carolina where we have the best ground game and i'm going to go there tonight and tomorrow morning. heading off to new hampshire. i'm going to win this the old-fashioned way, the way that party nominees always win it. >> reporter: your friend and mine ana navarro said on air that she's feeling glum tonight because of the performance that you had. >> i'm running for president of the united states. i'm running with heart. i'm not a performer. if they are looking for an
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entertainer in chief, i'm probably not the guy. if they are looking for someone with a proven record of results, 32 years in the business sector and 8 years and the most reform-oriented conservative probably in the last 30 years in the country, i'm their guy. >> reporter: you seem quite frustrated. >> nope, not frustrated. >> reporter: no? >> i wish hi gotten questions on, you know -- got to answer questions on things that are on the minds of people, you know, entitlement challenges, the debt. i got fantasy football, you know, that's important i guess but not as important as other things. >> reporter: so we're live on cnn you have another chance. what are some of the things that you wanted to say that you didn't get to say in the debate tonight. >> that i have the most comprehensive plans to create a 4% growth economy, that i know how to fix the broken parts of washington, the corruption, the incredible problems of just inefficiencies because i did it. i got to do it as governor of the state of florida. i know how to do this. we reduced the government workforce by 11%. nobody thought it was possible. i cut taxes every year.
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i didn't raise taxes. i cut them and we created 1.3 million jobs, the environment to create those kind jobs and we led the nation in small business creation. all those things are important because that's how we're going to rise up again as a nation. >> reporter: you know, i'm listening to you say all this and heard you say on the campaign trail. i've interviewed you before, and it all sounds like and it is a good campaign pitch, but the reason why i asked about you being frustrated before is in today's environment, when your performance is the name of the game, when you have to sort of come across on tv in a certain way and the twitter environment, that's what i meant by being from us trade, sort of getting that message across for people to hear it. >> i don't follow twitter. i don't worry about it. i'm going to control the part that i can control. i got -- i tried tonight ject as much as i could. i was asked three questions, i think, or something like that and i'm going to continue to work hard, and when you travel as you've gone to see me campaign, you see how people
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connect with a message that is much more hopeful and optimistic than what we have today. reince priebus came out in the hallway right after the debate was barely over and blasted cnbc for the way that they handled the debate. do you share his frustration? >> they didn't control the debate, plain and simple. it was not -- it was not a fair debate in that regard. >> reporter: he said there were gotcha questions. do you think that's true. >> of course, there were. gotcha questions like there had been in the other debates as well. >> reporter: except for cnn, of course. >> okay, cnn. am i laughing out loud? >> reporter: before we let you go, i know you've got to go. what do you say to people like not just ana but others who support you and love you and want you to be president but just are -- are maybe not frustrated but are concerned that you're not getting over the hump when it comes to the campaigning part of it. >> it's a long haul. ana, hang in there, girl. it's a long haul, baby.
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a few more debates to go. i'm out-campaigning everybody. i'm working hard and we're raising the resources. we have the best ground game in these early states and president mccain, president giuliani, a whole bunch of people were leading in the primaries and i feel confident with where we've got to go. >> reporter: appreciate it. anderson, back to you. >> baby, what do you think? i've been wanting to call you baby for a long time. the governor just gave me permission. >> i'm calling gene. >> listen. >> he sounds -- >> first of all -- >> when he's talking he sounds strong and confident. he is confident. he does have the best ground team and he is rolling out great policy. he does have the heart. he does have the hunger. he is campaigning hard in all the early states. the debate performances are having a huge influence this time around because they are being viewed by so many people, and it's probably the one component where he's not doing as well and it's having a huge --
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>> donna, you're kind of shaking your head. >> i still think he is the most qualified to be president, and jeb, i'm hanging on, babe. i'm hanging on. >> you know, the love is clearly there, but debates are about moments, and jeb bush took his moment to attack marco rubio and he failed, and i think that will impact his campaign. that will impact the donors' enthusiasm and also voters. he may have the best ground game. i've worked on campaigns with good ground games but unless you have a candidate who can actually go out there and articulate his message. >> the problem isn't just this debate for jeb but every debate he's had a moment. this debate he had a moment with marco rubio and another debate had had a moment with donald trump and he's not been the winner of either of confrontations and when people picture him against a hillary
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clinton they sense that he's not going to be able to win those exchanges. >> in defense of senator rubio, if i may, you know, it's remarkable, the word chutzpah comes to mind for the son of a vice president of the united states and the brother of a governor of texas who used their time as vice president as governor to run for president and didn't resign and didn't leave their job to apply not apply to them the same standards he's applying to marco rubio. >> jeb wasn't a constituent in texas. >> one of bush's problems is that he often sounds like a whiner. he uses his time, even in that interview he said i'm not a performer. i wish i had better questions. i don't follow twitter. i tried to inject. i got only three questions. the process is the process and you have to learn in the process and do it joyfully. can't be a critic of the process you're trying to master. >> he's not whining. he's not whining. he's actually telling the truth. i think one of the issues is he hates the idea of having to put
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on a performance. >> and obama did, too. but he did it. >> let's look at stakes right now for jeb bush. john king is at the magic wall for us. >> anderson, let's lay out numbers. maybe he has the best ground game but at some point you have to win. that's how you win the nomination. have to win somewhere. the national polls don't matter as much until we get close to voting but they do tell you something. number one, that's donald trump. number two, that's ben carson. the latest national poll has carson ahead, the real clear politics average of the six most recent polls and two outsiders
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up here at top. this gets confusing, 15 candidates, all the colors. the good thing about jeb bush he's green, see that right here. he's down here with ted cruz and below marco rubio and way down here in the national polls so if you're trying to break through and make the donors happy you need a good debate to move the numbers up. iowa votes first, 990 days away from tonight. ben carson spiked. donald trump, coming down but still in second place and jeb bush down here. he's not invested as much time in iowa as new hampshire but ted cruz is ahead of him here and marco rubio is ahead of him here and this is carly fiorina who has gone down as of late and even down here. way down here with the two outsiders up here. maybe somebody from the establishment group will break out, but at moment you have the two outsiders way up on top and jeb bush just said he's off to new hampshire tomorrow. again, jeb bush is the green. he's way down here at 10:00% on average in new hampshire in the last several polls. donald trump in the most recent polls, see if the new new hampshire polls show donald trump coming down as other polls, especially in iowa but at the moment donald trump is ahead in the state of new hampshire. dr. carson down here. jeb is down here with carly fiorina, marco rubio and john kasich is down here as well. somebody from the establishment may break out but at moment, anderson, with this crowded
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field and the two outsiders dominating the race jeb bush has not been able to break free. other candidates that you would say are lyric him, marco rubio like him looking to get the establishment vote and the governor kasich very much like him trying to get the conservative, governor conservative like ronald reagan vote. so jeb bush right now, for all the work he's doing, he's stuck down here which to the point remember the last cycle and the last debate. carly fiorina went way up after the debate and started to go down a little bit. jeb bush has yet to the get a moment since donald trump got in the race in july. back then jeb bush was your front-runner, since then jeb bush has not gotten a moment on the national stage and this was
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his third stage that sends his numbers going that way. >> yeah. >> instead, he's down here, a flat line at the moment and in politics just like at doctor's office a flat line is not a good thing. >> michael? >> my takeaway for the night is the two so-called front-runners carson and trump were non-entities in this debate we're not talking that much about them because frankly they were not impactful. any american who has not been paying close attention like members of this panel and suddenly tuned in tonight would have a very hard time believing that donald trump and ben carson are leading this thing, and my final thought is there's a sense of inevitability about it, i think, that it will not last, that he's on the downslide, meaning donald trump and that carson won't hold it even if he wins iowa and that it's one of the others that we've spent tonight talking about who will emerge. >> the truth is if you look at history, you know, outsider candidates don't last and people have been saying, i know jeffrey is going to say this so let me say that for him and people have been saying about donald trump from before he entered the race. >> thank you. >> and they have been wrong
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every step of the way. you don't need to tweet me that. >> they said that about ronald reagan, too, who lost the iowa caucuses. >> i don't want to jinx it now that it's actually happening. >> david axelrod said earlier, i agree, ted cruz, watch ted cruz. this is somebody who is coming up on the outside here doing pretty well in iowa. conservative, evangelical, he was so comfortable on the stage tonight. >> to follow through on that thought. if you're an evangelical and suddenly start to doubt ben carson's ability on a couple of issues. >> right. >> you're not sure you trust donald trump on religious belief or religious issue or core evangelical issues, around i know there are many -- they are not cookie cutter, a lot of complexity there, do you go to cruz? is that his line? >> another outsider. >> when he announced his campaign and laid out a memo, what voters they would go after to kind of capture the tea party conservatives and play the second favorite for, you know, evangelicals in iowa and that's all coming -- >> which is why he always stood
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by trump saying i'm glad he's in the race. >> they are aligned on immigration issues and that's all working, and if you look at where his campaign is very up front about it, they are very well performed to perform well march 1st. if we think this debate and the fact that they were not of presence, this debate, cruz shined, rubio shined. donald trump is still in the spin room talking to reporters, and i remember looking at the cnn republican debate. he didn't spend that much time in the spin room. he was in and out. i'm wondering if he wants more face time in front of reporters to get his message across. >> at the moment. he knows how to adjust. >> at the moment, maybe he thinks he needs more press. cruz, he's positioned

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