tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 3, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
jeanne moos, cnn, new york. >> makes me grateful the one time i got a tattoo it was temporary. be sure to set your recorder so you can watch "outfront" any time. thanks for joining us. we begin with breaking news and a string of potentially significantly developments in the crash of 9268. the latest coming from the american embassy in cairo warning employees not to travel anywhere in the sinai peninsula where the russian airbus went down until investigators determine exactly what happened. today egyptian authorities say they're on the scene work was done in the stream of potentially significant information continued. so did the contradictions and clashing theories surrounding what, after, all is an early stage in the investigation. russian state media reporting that investigators found no signs of what they call explosive impact on the bodies recovered so far. at the same time, the american satellite that detected a heat flash when the plane went down.
starting tonight with renee marsh who joins us now. what more are you learning about warnings to the u.s. embassy employees in egypt? >> today the u.s. embassy in cairo issued an advisory warning all embassy employees, civilian and military not to visit the sinai peninsula right now pending the outcome of the investigation. now, the u.s. embassy is calling this a precautionary move, but no indication of a status change there the more than 700 american troops based in sinai right now. they are continuing their mission. anderson? >> there is new information about the heat flash detected by that satellite. >> right. we do know a mid-air flash happened right before this plane essentially crashed. u.s. military sources are telling cnn's barbara starr that there, one of their satellites detected a heat flash while the plane was still in the air. now, this new information essentially suggests a possible
expoli explosion caused by a bomb, but it could also be something else. could be tied to failed engine exploding or some other structural or mechanical problem with the plane. the airline, though, is quick to come out to say there was no mechanical failure. and russian state media just today said there are no signs of explosive impact on the bodies of the victims. essentially no blast-related trauma. anderson, we should point out that does not necessarily rule anything out. just look at 1994. there was an airline flight, philippine airlines flight 434. there were 273 people onboard. a bomb was onboard that jetliner. one passenger was killed, ten others injured. everyone else survived. >> all right, renee, appreciate the reporting. we learned today security measures have not been tightened at the airport in sharm el sheikh. egyptian authorities saying that there is no need telling us no indication this was an act of terrorism. over the weekend, an isis
affiliate claimed responsible for bringing down the plane. the travel warning from the u.s. embassy. what to make of it all. ian lee joins us with the latest from cairo. how much do we know about this isis affiliate in sinai? >> well, anderson, while this isis affiliate has struck targets around egypt, they mainly have been confined to the northern part of sinai. they rose out of the arab spring in 2011. but it wasn't until after the 2013 overthrow of islams president mohamed morsi when a wave of violence started. they killed hundreds of people including soldiers, policemen and civilians. they do have some sophisticated weapons. they have anti-tank missiles that have not only hit tanks, but a boat in the mediterranean. they also have shoulder-fired surface to air missiles where we've seen them take down a helicopter. >> theoretically with a
shoulder-fired missile they might have been able to bring down this plane, is that correct? >> well, there's really two theories of how they could do it. the first being a surface to air missile, which seems unlikely. and almost we can put that aside at this point because these surface to air missiles that they have can only reach an elevation of about 14,000 feet and this plane was traveling over 30,000 feet. the other possible scenario is putting a bomb onboard. all the evidence points to that being a possibility, not the reason, but a possibility at this point. if that did happen, that raises serious questions about security at egypt's airports. now, egyptian and russian authorities have downplayed any link to terror saying it is most likely a mechanical issue. but, we really won't know what caused this plane to go down until the investigation is over and what we can learn from these black boxes, anderson. >> appreciate it from cairo tonight. bring in our cnn safety
analyst former faa accident investigator and pilot miles o'brien and retired general hurtling. they claimed they brought down the plane. would they have the capabilities of getting a bomb on a commercial aircraft? >> they certainly could, anderson. the name of the group is sometimes known as, they have been emerging within the last two years or so in the sinai peninsula. they've been troublesome to both the egyptian government and the israelis. last july, in fac, the israeli defense forces put out a report saying this is the most prevalent and technically savvy group, they think, in the middle east. that may be because they're on the southern border. they certainly have some capability. we mention the attack on a boat within the senior by a cornet missile which is a russian h-ma
missile. they have attack on egyptian ground forces. they are certainly a relevant group now and you're going to start hearing more about them. many people in the multi-force observer group, we have americans about 700 americans there have been reporting intelligence on this group for about two years now. >> david, i mean, u.s. officials are saying this heat flash that was detected by a u.s. military satellite was detected mid-air. now, if this turns out to be a massive mechanical failure, what could have happened? >> well, the only way, the only example that we have in history is when an aircraft came apart in flight and tore the fuel tank in half and the fuel tank then erupted and caused the fuel to burn and causing this eruption or flash. and that could be what this is. in fact, in my mind, it's more likely that it's that than even a bomb onboard because a bomb onboard would not have to be too big to repture the fuse lodge and cause this to happen. especially when you consider the fact that most of the passengers
have no explosive residue on them indicating either it was torn apart or a small bomb inside. >> miles, u.s. officials are saying this is a catastrophic event in flight and could have been a bomb or a massive mechanical failure. you believe a bomb is a distinct possibility. >> i do, anderson. i harkin back to pan am 103 over lockerbie. you recall a small amount of plastic explosives that caused that plane to go down. a strategically placed bomb near the tail section and given where the tail section was found in proximity to the rest of had wreckage, strategically placed bomb there would not have to be a very large device, matter of fact. you wouldn't necessarily get this, you know, idea of explosive residue or burn marks or passengers as a result of an explosion. all it takes is to knock the tail off that aircraft and down
it goes. >> general hertling i have spent time at sharm el sheikh, i have never been to the airport. in terms of security, how good is it? >> a long time ago, anderson, it was not very good. certainly i don't have any recent experience there. but it's a tourist town. a lot of europeans go there. russians, western europeans traveled there because of the great resort area it is. that is part of the problem the egyptian government kind of doesn't want, they don't want people to think this is an unsafe area. it's a great diving spot. it is not the best security in the world. and certainly in the middle east. but i can't vouch for within the last two years or so. but i think they had a lot of trouble. again a lot of attacks by these groups. you would think the security would be increased, especially they had gate jumpers there. and they had attacks in sharm el sheikh, relatively few, but still attacks. this is going to be a new focal
point. >> and, david, i mean, according to the flight data tracker, flight radar 24, the plane slowed down suddenly and then plunged at like 300 miles an hour and the plane's direction of travel was, what they said, wobbling from side to side. what does that tell you? >> well, it would tell you that it was a breakup in the flight. no directional control of the aircraft. wobbling left to right means no rudder and no control going left to right. it would be consistent with this type of in-flight breakup for sure. >> miles, does it surprise you that air traffic controllers wouldn't have received any distress calls from the pilots? >> if you harkin back to previous incidents like this whether it is lockerbie or twa-800 which ultimately was a full tank explosion, there was no chance for the crew to get a radio call off. >> there are also reporting reporting that officials say that based on the flight data recorder, there were uncharacteristic sounds heard
the moment before the flight disappeared. i mean, can you read anything to that? >> well, you know, if you look at going back to twa 800 there was a brief noise which they analyze in excruciating detail, which they ultimately realized had much to do with the severe nature of the explosion that occurred in that place. the shootodown over ukraine, investigators there spent a lot of time using the acoustic information to help isolate how that missile, which brought it down struck and where it struck. so, that kind of information is very useful. and those strange noises will be poured over with the right expertise and could tell a lot. >> always, thank you. just ahead, more on the parallels between this and twa flight 800 and the lessons that still apply nearly 20 years later. we'll talk to one of the leading experts in that trail blazing investigation. donald trump unloads on the
investigation in ways you have to see to believe. he also takes a shot at us and we'll look at the videotape and see if he's on target or totally off base. keeping them honest tonight. how? with heat. unlike creams and rubs that mask the pain, thermacare has patented heat cells that penetrate deep to increase circulation and accelerate healing. let's review: heat, plus relief, plus healing, equals thermacare. the proof that it heals is you.
echoes, too, of another disaster that remains incredibly irrelevant two decades later. randi kaye has that story. >> reporter: july 1996, twa flight 800 takes off from new york's jfk's airport. 12 minutes into the plight, the plane explodes. >> about 15,000 feet or something like that. it just went down in the water. >> you could see the two wings fall off and the fuel, obviously, coming out of the wings and, of course, it was all on fire. >> reporter: captain david mcclain was piloting a different airplane. he thought it was a bomb or some sort of in-flight explosion. whatever it was killed all 230 onboard. >> some characterize it as fireworks and others said maybe that it was a missile going towards the plane. >> reporter: the fbi and ntsb looked at every possibility. a missile, a bomb, terrorism. the plane's black boxes were recovered in good condition.
but offered little since both had stopped recording. john was with the ntsb. >> i spent hours and days looking at every piece of metal. looking for the tell tale signs of a missile. and there were none. the fbi spared no expense in trying to show that it was a bomb and at the end of the day, they couldn't prove it was a bo bomb. >> reporter: in the end, 800 center fuel tank exploded, causing the plane to break apart. no matter what witnesses thought they saw, the government said there was simply no proof of a criminal act. he expects the same type of conspiracy theories will result from the crash of metro jet which also broke apart in mid-air. 23 minutes into the flight. there's already talk of a missile and a bomb. a heat flash detected at the time of the russian jet crash suggests there was a
catastrophic in-flight event. that heat flash is similar to the red flash people witnessed when twa crashed. and that turned out to be the plane already on fire at 8400 feet in the night sky. whatever it was that brought the russian jet down caused the tail to break apart from the airplane. when that happened will be key to the investigation. so will the burn marks in the desert, he says. the airplane hit the ground and didn't scatter. possibly preserving important clues. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> and he joins us now and holds the detinction of the first certified airplane and power plant mechanic to serve on the national transportation safety board. he knows how airplanes are put together or, sadly, how they can come apart. john, based on what you know, how likely was it this was kind kind of catastrophic mechanical failure rather than something more nefarious?
>> unlikely it was a fuel tank explosion like we had on twa because of the effort the industry has put forth over the last 20 years to make sure that that doesn't happen, again. a tremendous amount of work and a lot of resources that went in to making sure we won't revisit that event, again. there are other things that can happen to an airplane to cause them to come apart. some of them pretty easy. however, the scenario that we have today doesn't fit any of the easy theories. something happened up there and it could be something as simple as a computer failure. or it could be a device on the airplane. it's not likely to be an engine that failed, catastrophically and broke apart because that would give you time with the other engine running for the crew to at least use the radios. so, it was something a little bit different than what we would normally see. >> there is this report that we mentioned in russian-state media
that the victims' bodies show no signs of an explosive impact, but does that rule out baunl? >> no, it doesn't rule out a bomb. first off, they haven't looked at every single body yet. i'm sure they will. if there was a small device in the cargo compartment, especially in the rear cargo compartment that wasn't enough to blast the airplane apart but enough to fracture the fuselage which is what happened with twa, it doesn't have to be a big boom. just enough of a boom to start the failure of the structure. and then the airplane will self-destruct. >> and how would it self-destruct. one part destructs and then sort of a ripple effect? >> remember the airplane in flight is under tremendous amount of loads. and the way the airplanes are designed, those loads are meant to be transferred to very strong portions of the air frame. and the case of the 747 a beam
underneath the bottom of the fuse lodge. so, once you disrupt that flow of primary structure moving the stresses into an area want it to go into, those will go into an area of the fuselage and it will actually self-destruct. >> the same plane back in 2001 suffered daniel on the tail after it struck the runway and it was repaired. is it possible that could have contributed to that crash or is it so long ago that that wouldn't play a role? >> no, actually, the length of time can actually add to it if the repair was made improperly, then the stress fractures that could result in that pressure bulkhead and cause it to fail. but, you know, based upon the pictures i have seen and admittedly that is not the best pictures and the best way to look at it. it doesn't appear that that pressure bulk head failed. but, you know what, if they have had enough of a tail strike, we
may have weakened the structure somewhere else like the picture that is shown on the screen right here. at this point where the inspection is. if the structure was weakened there, had some cracks in that area and they didn't materialize until later, that could have been an effect. so, you know, investigations are an exercise in time, patience and following procedures. >> yeah. >> we have in the worldwide aviation community has a set of procedures that have yielded good results for years and years and years. you're going to see 20 to 25 teams po s poring over this air in the desert each doing their thing. separate from the recorders and separate from what everyone else says, these folks will build a book of facts. and those facts will lead us to a conclusion. >> john, i appreciate you being on. thank you so much. just ahead, donald trump getting a lot of mileage out of saying that i actually tossed
softballs at the democratic debate. keeping them honest, we'll rewind the tape and let you decide how tough my questions were. here at td ameritrade, they love innovating. and apparently, they also love stickers. what's up with these things, victor? we decided to give ourselves stickers for each feature we release. we read about 10,000 suggestions a week to create features that as traders we'd want to use, like social signals, a tool that uses social media to help with research. 10,000 suggestions. who reads all those? he does. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this.
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polling shows hillary clinton and ben carson is a toss-up. a tie if the election was held today regretfully or thankfully, it isn't. it's not being held today. we still have a long way to go. got us thinking about the state of the last presidential race one year out. president obama was unchallenged and over on the republican side, here's how it looked. another motivational speaker outside was leading, cane followed bike rand paul. this time around dr. carson, trump, marco rubio, ted cruz and in single digits, jeb bush. donald trump had harsh words for him today promoting his new book and diszing opponents and making one claim about the cnn democratic deit bait that seems to be the exact opposite of what he originally said. this is what donald trump said about my moderating the day after the debate. he tweeted tweeted@# #andersoncd
a slnt job of hosting the debate last night. >> hillary clinton was given all softballs. not one tough question. >> we didn't ask hillary clinton one tough question, we asked her a lot more than that. here are a few examples. >> you are against same sex marriage and now for it and defended president obama's immigration policies and now you say they're too harsh and supported his trade deal dozens of times and now suddenly last week you're against it. will you say anything to get elected? you'll testify before congress next week about your e-mails. for the last eight months, you haven't been able to put this issue behind you. you dismissed it, joked about it and called it a mistake. what does that call about, you and your husband are the 1% how can you represent the views of the middle class? did you underestimate the
russians and as president, what would your response to vladimir putin be right now? do you change your political identity based on who you're talking to? >> several questions, by the way, to all the other democratic candidates. as for his rivals, here's what donald trump said today about them. >> jeb, he lacks the quality that you need. i think marco is highly overrated. highly overrated. ben carson does not have that energy. marco doesn't show up to the united states senate. what jeb bush was saying at the last debate, i don't know, but he didn't say it well. when the e-mail problem came up, bernie sanders lost his whole campaign. what he did was so stupid from a standpoint. marco rubio personal finances are discredited. just look at his credit card. i mean, he is a disaster with his credit cards. he certainly lives above his means. there's no question about that. my jeb impression, no, i don't want to do that. i don't like showing a person sleeping at a podium.
>> a lot to talk about. joining me jeffrey lord and van jones and van is a former obama administration official. jeffrey, criticizing the debate modrairt modrair moderators, whether it's me or someone else, going after the candidates, is the reality just that that those sort of comments are red meat or a reflection of concern within the trump campaign because he's now trailing in two national polls? >> no, i think it's the first. i mean, you say red meat. i believe that he's giving voice to sentiments that the base of the republican party believes to its core in general i'm not citing you specifically. i just mean debate moderator, the media, all of that. >> but isn't it a little h hypocritical the day after the debate before he takes the temperatures of his followers.
tough questions, fair, good job. a week later the thing to attack the moderators given the disastrous cnbc debate he suddenly now has a different opinion. that just seems odd to me. >> yeah -- >> overrating it there. >> or narcissistic. >> you know, anderson, i know what you're trying to do, anderson. you're trying to get me fired. i mean, i'm on record. >> luckily you're not on the trump payroll. >> well, that's right. i'm not on the trump payroll. but, wait, oh, you're fired is coming over my phone right now. i said i thought you did a good job. rush limbaugh said he thought you did a good job. >> i'm not looking for compliments. i just think it's interesting that he sort of changed his opinion, you know a week later after the fact. >> this is the thing that i think -- >> go ahead, jeffrey. >> yeah. i just think, you know, just in general, this belief goes all the way back to sparrow agnew in
the 1970s. this is gospel in the republican party and the conservative movement. so, frankly, it doesn't take much at all for a candidate, any candidate, donald trump or any one as ted cruz and marco rubio said the other night to show something like this because they believe it in their core and he expressed these feelings to me a year ago. you weren't even in the conversation. i think this touches on very sensitive nerve here. >> van, the fact that trump is, again, complaining that democrats got softball questions at their debate and the republican debate was so unfair, i want to play a bit of what president obama said about that last night. >> have you noticed that everyone of these candidates say, you know, obama's weak. you know, putin's kicking sand in his face. when i talk to putin, he's going to straighten out. just looking at him, he's going to be. and then it turns out they can't
handle a bunch of cnbc moderators at a debate. >> clearly big applause line for the president. >> but it's true. i mean, it makes no sense at all. these guys are trying to be, you know, these tough guys, these tough guys and they go crying. they've been crying now for a week. i mean, my kids don't cry this much about a booboo or an ouchy. these guys are crying and crying and crying. and the reality is, if you look at, you know, not to praise you too much, anderson, but you were throwing heat. you were throwing hard balls. you attacked bernie sanders for being a socialist. you went after jim webb and said how can you be in a democratic party and called it racism and they did something remarkable. they answered your questions. and moved on. so, the idea that the democrats are weak and can't take a punch and the republicans, these tough guys. they're collapsing all over the
place. and the hypocrisy. >> anderson -- >> one more thing about donald trump. donald trump, mr. authenticity. we love him because he tells it like it is. he changes what the truth is about reality every 13 seconds. i don't believe it's authenticity stuff at all. >> jeffrey, now your turn. >> anderson, van, i have to tell you, i haven't seen anybody whine more about fox news than president obama. if ever there was somebody who spent his entire presidency, i mean, particularly when he began he was going after fox personali personalities. this is what he does, goes after sean hannity and goes on and on and on about this. there was a meeting with him and roger rails to see if he could get fox news off his back. he is incredibly whiny about this. i must say, i find this rather amusing because he's describing himself with fox news. >> van, final thought and then we have to go. >> well, listen, any time a news agency names itself after a
furry predatory mammal that you can't trust to guard the hen house or anything like that, i think the name speaks for itself. >> it was william fox a century ago. >> a furry mammal they were going for. van jones, jeffrey lorde, as well. donald trump will be on cnn tomorrow morning, don't miss "new day" starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern. right now, some election results coming in. governor's mansion changing hands. a big win for the gop in kentucky. cnn projecting tea party republican matt bevin will defeat jack conway. the race is significant in part because outgoing governor that took federal money to expand medicaid coverage and matt bevin promises to reverse that. a dying child's wish and her parents' decision to honor it. is a 5-year-old old enough to choose heaven or the hospital? can she really understands what it means? we'll have that story ahead.
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our next story about the most wrerning decision a parent could ever face. imagine your child was sick and the doctors could not cure her. now imagine she told you she wanted to go to heaven. would you honor her wish? what if she was just 5 years old. here's the story senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen has. >> reporter: what princess are you today? cinderella. julianna snow has a neuromuscular disease that is slowly taking her life. she can't walk or breathe on her own or even use her hands to play with glitter. >> there's no such thing as too much, okay. >> reporter: the next time juliana gets a cold or any infection her body will be too weak to fight it off. what do the doctors tell you is likely to happen if she were to get another cold? >> she will most likely die if she gets another cold. >> reporter: juliana's doctors presented her parents steve snow and michelle moon with two
devastating options. juliana could die at home in her pink princess room made comfortable surrounded by family or go to the hospital where treatment likely couldn't save her or even if it did, she would likely have a terrible quality of life. >> everyone told us there is no right answer. >> reporter: so michelle and steve asked juliana something almost no parent could even fathom. when she was just 4 years old, they asked her what she wanted to do. go to the hospital or go to heaven. you blogged about it. >> yes. >> reporter: let's take a look. >> me, juliana, if you get sick again, do you want to go to hospital or stay home. not the hospital. me, even if that means you go to heaven if you stay home? juliana, yes. me, and you know that mommy and daddy won't come with you right away. juliana, don't worry, god will take care of me. me, and if you go the hospital, it may help you get better and let you come home again and spend more time with us. i need to make sure you
understand that. hospital may let you have more time with mommy and daddy. juliana, i understand. >> reporter: juliana told her parents she hated the hospital, especially a procedure called suctioning. >> they stick a tube on a suction machine and stick it up the nose and down past the tongue and back into the throat as deep as you can go and you start suctioning. if give on the choice of me or one of the other respiratory techs she would ask for me to do it. >> reporter: was that hard to do? >> yeah. >> reporter: could you watch her go through that again, do you think? >> if i had to. >> reporter: would it save her life if she were to get an infection? >> i don't think so. >> reporter: michelle and steve says when the time comes they'll honor their daughter's wishes. some parents would not have consulted a child so young. so, you asked your daughter at the age of 4 what do you think?
what should we do? >> she knows exactly what that was. she was awake for every single one. she knows what that is. so, i think she has a right. i think she has a say. >> reporter: juliana's doctors told cnn she's an exceptionally wise 5-year-old and they support her parents' decision to carry out her wishes. for now, juliana is enjoying her life with her parents, her big brother, alex. ♪ let it go can't hold it back any more ♪ ♪ let it go >> reporter: and her princes. . >> her elsa and anna. are they cousins? >> they're sisters. >> it's anna. >> reporter: i said anna. i'm sorry. %-p! realistic hopes for her for the rest of the time she has left?
>> feel loved. >> reporter: what has gotten you through it? >> faith. wherever you may be, i can guarantee for certain god listens to you and me. the fact that she will be in a better place when her time comes. and we can go join her some day and this will all pass away. >> what do you want people to remember about julianna? >> her heart. she is just so much love. so much love. >> so dsad. elizabeth joins us now. julianna talked about what she thinks heaven will be like? >> her mother had a discussion about that, anderson. her mother says what they discussed in heaven she won't be in a wheelchair and she'll be able to run around outside and play and she'll be able to eat. none of which she can do right now. >> and her doctors are supportive of the parents' decision? >> they are. i interviewed several of her
doctors and nurses and all of them were supportive of the choice that her parents have made. i want to read you actually two of them. her nurse in the intensive care unit who was with her over several hospital stays says there is no cure for her and i want her living and her dying in her princess room at home surrounded by her family and not by the cold technology of the hospital. then her pulmonology dr. danny shaw told me for her there is no light at the end of the tunnel. she doesn't have a long time left to live. i have the utmost faith in her mother and in her father. they're phenomenal parents and they have her best wishes at heart. >> elizabeth, thank you. really difficult report. you can join elizabeth for a live chat about her report at facebook.com/ac360. juliana's story, i mean, it's beyond heartwrenching. we want to talk and chris futner
director of the medical ethics department at the children's hospital of philadelphia. art, obviously, just an ethical dilemma and just a horrible, horrible situation for this family. what do you think about asking the child for her opinion? >> i mean the child is a hero, the family unbelievably courageous. so, my heart goes out to them. i think, you know, you've got to listen to the child. no doubt about that and i have no issue about withdrawing care and allowing her to go in her own room but i get nervous when i hear them say, we'll let her decide. i think you have to get input and listen carefully. sometimes we have kids in the opposite situation. bone marrow transplants and the kid says, i don't want this at 4 and i don't want this at 5 and we don't sort of say, okay, you're going to make the call. we let the parents push forward if that's what they think is best. for me, i think the parents are making their decision and listen hard to her, but i want to make sure that all of us understand
at the end of the day, parents have to do this, not 5 year olds. >> chris, you're a pediatrician and you have actually asked dying kids at your hospital whether they want to live or die and you have taken that opinion into consideration. why for you is that so important? >> well, i think if this is a story fundamentally about a family united with deep compassion, love, a kind of calmness and courage that is really remarkable. bra embracing their daughter on her journey with this severe illness and trying to figure out with her what are her preferences. how does she want to live? not really a story just about dying, but how you live with serious illness, which is what we are always trying to figure out as we take care of children. what do they care most about and how can we make that happen given what they're up against? >> you don't believe that the parents should rely solely on
the opinion of their child, do you? >> i don't think it's a story about that. i think the blog was written in a very strong, provocative way to really wake us up to the reality that children often have. a clear sense of what their preferences are and what they're afraid of and what they're hoping for. and i can't express my deep enough admiration for what this family has done and really enabling that child to talk about what her hopes are, what she's afraid of, the suctioning, et cetera and then bring that all into the decision making process. this is not a story about conflict. the doctors are in agreement and the family is in agreement and the girl is in agreement. this is a remarkable case of doing exactly what we hope. bring the child in, bring everybody in and figure out what is the best way to love this little girl. >> and, art, not just the strength of this little girl, but the strength of the parents to, i mean, to ask to turn to
her. they could have very easily said we're going to exhaust every medical possibility and even in the face of overwhelming odds. >> we want you to stay with us. >> instead, you know, this is the most difficult decision they could possibly make. is it similar, though, to an elderly patient having a dnr, do not resuscitate. is there some sort of -- can you compare the two? >> i think they're different. the 85-year-old, you have a sense of their values, you have a sense of what they would want. they have achieved what in the ethics say, they're atonmous. they have self-determination. maybe hard to hear them, maybe weren't sure they wrote it down, maybe they didn't pick someone to speak for them. but buried in there somewhere when you have an elderly person who can't speak or communicate well or starting to slip, you know what their life was like. here the 5-year-old, they have limited concepts. they understand heaven, but in a kind of fairy talish sort of
way. cause and effect not great yet. we even have limits on time. what is yesterday as opposed to a month ago as opposed to a year ago. chris is absolutely right. we want to admire what they did, listening to this child and so forth. but i don't want people coming away saying, you know, at 5, at 4, in the health care system we've got to let kids make these decisions. i don't want anybody going away with the idea that this wasn't a team decision. a family decision. >> it sounds like it was. art caplan, chris, thank you for all you do. more breaking information about that plane crash in the sinai peninsula coming up. we'll take a short break. the cold truth is,
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linked to chipotle res raunts. chipotle has closed a number of locations as a precaution. a violent confrontation caught on dash cam video. a taco bell executive has been fired after attacking an uber driver because the executive was too drunk to give him directions. the driver used pepper spray to fight him off. the passenger has been charged with assault. >> that's incredible. thanks very much. breaking news just in. cnn cannot independently confirm this, however the state-owned news agency russiana 24 is reporting more information on the spread of the debris field. the network is reporting that the tail ended up five kilometers or about three miles away from the rest of the wreckage. the tail did not have any signs of burning from a fire. that according to russia 24. as we think about that and the 224 souls lost when it went down in egypt's sinai desert, we
don't want to forget there waur 25 children on that flight. lives cut short just as they were beginning. the youngest victim of this tragedy, only 10 months old. this is her with her little hands pressed up against the window watching the planes take off from the st. petersburg airport. her mother, tatiana posted this image to social media a few hours before they boarded their plane for egypt, along with a photo of their passports and plane tickets. she shared many pictures of her daughter on social media. the caption under this photo says, my princess. she would have turned 1 on the day after christmas. anton posted this picture on october 24th with the words, farewell russia, underneath. he was on vacation with his family in egypt and anton was 10 years old. he celebrated his birthday just last week. vera turned 6 last month.
she was onboard the flight with elena who had just turned 5 in august. diana was in egypt with her parents, victoria and vladimir. she was only 4. olga and yuri brought their daughter to egypt to enjoy some time in the sun. in this picture the words egypt 2015 are written out in the sand. one of the last photos they took of yuro holding her before boarding the plane. she was just 3 years old. the picture was posted by olga before they took off. the caption reads, we're going home. >> so awful when you think about it. right back with another hour of can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit?
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