tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 5, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PST
that's it for us tonight. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening. we begin tonight with two pieces of breaking news, first and foremost, something that could affect anyone who travels here at home. we're learning the tsa is weighing changes to u.s. airport security in the wake of the
metro jet 9268 crash, that and president obama now for the first time openly raising the possibility that a terrorist bomb brought the russian airbus down. >> i think there is a possibility that there was a bomb on board. and we're taking that very seriously. we're going to spend a lot of time just making sure that our own investigators and our own intelligence community figures out exactly what's going on before we make any definitive pronouncements. but it is certainly possible that there was a bomb on board. >> that was president obama talking to cbs radio affiliate kiro in seattle as new video emerges of the immediate aftermath in egypt's sinai desert. david cameron going one step further calling it a strong possibility a bomb did this more likely than not in his words. american and british intelligence sources telling us the signs point to isis involvement.
however, maybe this is self-evident but possibly or a possibility is not the same as a certainty. indications are not evidence and the hard evidence so far remains fragmentary. we'll keep that in mind as we bring you the latest from correspondents around the globe. first tonight, pamela brown covering the investigation joins us with what her sources are saying. what are you hearing, pamela? >> reporter: we're learning message traffic involving the isis affiliate in the sinai peninsula was an initial indicator that the crash could be a terrorist attack. this was message traffic that was electronic and terrorists were boasting about the bombing of the airliner. sources say this occurred after the attack and at this point, the intelligence community didn't have anything before the attack indicating this was a threat but i want to point this out, that officials are warning this intelligence is inconclusive. the chatter is not definitive evidence. at times they will attempt to throw off intelligence agencies or try to gain favor with others in the terrorist group, though officials tell my colleague barbara starr that this did not
appear to be false bragging, but rather discussion of the crash that had to be taken seriously so it caused concern but no conclusions yet, anderson. >> there was video released over the weekend that we haven't authenticated and not showing here. isis claims it shows footage of the russian plane falling from the sky. what are your sources telling you about that? >> this is footage reportedly shot by isis showing a plane exploding from below from two angles. this was initially posted online over the weekend and then taken down shortly after. it made the rounds in intelligence services around the world. initially the video was dismissed by the u.s. intelligence community. i'm still being told by some sources that's the case but within other factions of the u.s. intelligence committee, they're going back to take a second look to scrutinize it. there are reasons to be skeptical. it would have been very difficult to know the exact geographical point the bomb was going to go off let alone film a plane 30,000 feet in the air, anderson.
>> good point. let's go to ben wedeman that spent more time and done more reporting in egypt than anyone else or anyone i know. ben, i understand the egyptians continue to push back in the idea it may have been a bomb that brought down the plane. >> reporter: that is still the case, anderson. egyptian officials are insisting that no one should jump to any conclusions until their investigation into this bombing or this event is complete and we heard egyptian officials say that it could take months before that investigation comes out with even preliminary results. now egyptian officials are clearly concerned about the impact that this news is having on tourism. tourism, of course, a mainstay of the egyptian economy and probably already this event is having a huge impact on what egyptians were hoping would be a good year for tourism, anderson. >> ben, the egyptian civil
aviation minister said the u.s. and uk haven't been sharing their information with the egyptians, that's what he said, right? >> not only him but also the foreign minister told cnn after he had a phone conversation with u.s. secretary of state john kerry that until now, no intelligence has been shared with the egyptian investigators into this event. so they are sort of holding up their hands and saying okay, show us the proof. they say they just haven't gotten that yet, and this i think compounds their frustration. >> there is a sense or is there a sense of why the egyptians would be out of step with the americans and the british on this? >> reporter: well, for one thing certainly since the summer of 2013 when that movement brought
ha see see to power, the relationship between washington and cairo has been rather pickly or stormy perhaps, and that's perhaps one reason. but i can tell you, i was here in october, november 1999 after the downing of egypt air flight 990 after taking off from jfk and back then there was a lot of tension between the egyptian and american investigators into the cause of that crash and when the ntsb came out with their final report on that crash, which of course was caused according to the ntsb by the co-pilot of that plane bringing the plane down, crashing it into the sea, the egyptians simply rejected the findings of the ntsb. i think this lack of trust perhaps between egyptian and american officials goes back many, many years. >> nothing new there. ben wedeman, thank you very much. we'll focus closer in a moment on the real state of security in
sharm el sheikh talking to someone who ran one of the most challenging terror operations on the planet. first, more on what to make of the intelligence picture tonight. joining us is former fbi supervisory special agent ally sufan, and former federal assistant homeland security and former top hope land security official for the commonwealth of massachusetts. ellie, sounds like president obama is not as far out in front of this as david cameron was. what do you make of his comments? >> well, i think, you know, we have to be very careful. there is a possibility according to the intelligence case that it is probably a bomb and i think the president have to be very carefully supporting our allies in the united kingdom. cameron has a totally different situation on the ground. he has about 20,000 british tourists. he has airlines that go there but i think we have to keep in mind this is an intelligence case. that does not mean that there
was a bomb. that does not mean that isis is behind it. however, unforeign, because of these leaks, because of these statements, it doesn't matter now if there was a bomb or no bomb. it doesn't matter if isis was behind it or not. >> because they've not gotten credit for it. >> absolutely. the narrative has been set. even if you have a credible investigation later on that said you know what? we don't believe it's a bomb. a lot of people who isis trying to reach out for, they already believe it's a bomb and won't believe the result of a credible investigation. kind of like the genie out of the bottle. >> so in that world, isis has done something which al qaeda central has not been able to do since 9/11. >> absolutely. you're talking about a threat to the aviation security about 14 years after 9/11 and they were able to down the plane with 224 passenger on it. >> juliette, the so-called chat -- chatter na had previously led
the u.s. to believe a bomb had brought down the plane, how reliable is that sort of intelligence? >> i don't want to say i'm skeptical. i would agree with the president, of course, it's a possibility. we don't know yet and we -- there are consequences to rushing to judgment. for the most part because russia, the u.k. and u.s. are all involved. those are major nations with troops in the area. we just want to get it right and the chatter that we're hearing about came after the bombing or after the airplane went down and it is likely, i think, that david cameron probably disclosed more than he wanted to in terms of his certainty. he does not want to disclose what we know or what we're doing to capture the intelligence and as you've seen over the last 24 hours, sort of walking back that certainty. so like everyone else, of course it's a possibility but there are consequences to rushing at the stage that have more to do with -- sorry, more to do with
reality than with politics or the administration trying to hide the ball. there are consequences for the narrative that's being written right now and we should just all take a deep breath and let the investigation go forward because if it was a bomb, it is a game changer. >> how significant do you think it is that this chatter was post the plane going down? >> i'm kind of -- i don't believe much in chatter. i mean, this is raw material. this is raw intelligence. you have to take it and you have to analyze it and you have to say okay, who is the person that is talking? does it match the reality on the ground? does it match the evidence that we are finding? so it's -- you cannot just take chatter and build a case upon that. you cannot build even an intelligence case upon one or two communication, you know, terrorists we know for example, they always brag about doing something that they don't do. they always brag about doing something that they did not do. so we have to be very careful what they talk about and what they say. that's why i believe that we
need to take our time in order to wait and see if there is any forensic evidence that support the claims of isis and its affiliate in sinai. >> i'll say one thing picking up, it is a game changer and one of the shocking things or surprising things in the last couple days is the extension -- extent to which great britain got out there, closes its flights and then abandons its citizens. if there is anything to learn here, i have been surprised the british have not had a back up plan and they have nationals in a country they're worried about just stranded about. if we learn a lot out of this, that's certainly another lesson. julia, allie, thank you. >> thank you. well, when we come back tonight, we'll explore the question this latest attack raises. can you make air travel secure? a leading global expert called in after the 9/11 attack to fix problems at boston's logan
airport and we'll see what is being done on the ground itself in egypt. there is also more breaking news tonight, the sad and twisted story that disgraced police officer lieutenant joe gliniewicz taking yet another shocking turn. you'll hear from a town official who learned that he was trying to have her killed. i'd like to make a dep--
vo: it happens so often, you almost get used to it. we got this. vo: which is why being put first takes some getting used to. ♪ nationwide is on your side nationwide is the exclusive insurance partner of plenti. the breaking news american authorities may alter security measures in the wake of metro jet 26 comes with a global spotlight where the doomed
airliner originated. officials in cairo initially downplayed concerns saying no changes would be made because none were necessary. tonight the question is what, if anything, has actually changed at that airport since then? more on that now from cnn's ian lee. >> reporter: there is a noticeable increase in security here at sharm el sheikh airport. even before you get into the terminal, there is a check point where they go through your luggage. there is a bomb sniffing dog as well and you come into here and this is one of the many layers of security where they scan your luggage and you go through a metal detector and see this man is being scrutinized here. they'll probably pat him down as we saw just about an hour ago there were hundreds of people here going through this very process. i asked them how they felt flying out of here almost everyone said that they felt safe. now, we know u.k. and egyptian officials have been working on security here at the airport. we're told the atmosphere is one of cooperation between the two
trying to make it safe so the british planes can resume flights back to the u.k. >> ian lee joins us now. ian, what security is like for people who are actually boarding flights, but it seems like if this was a bomb, there's a lot of theories that it came in through the backdoor, through someone who works at the airport who had direct access ot plane. do we know, has any security changed for the personnel that work the aircraft? >> reporter: well, anderson, the egyptian government still goes with believing that this was a mechanical issue, but if there was someone who did plant that bomb on the airplane, the egyptian authorities will be trying to find that person. they have had issues with police officers as well as soldiers they accuse of helping terrorist organizations. they have been arrested since the 2011 revolution. but the real question here in egypt for them is going to be how to make sure something like
this doesn't have and they do have some background checks but you do have a very large security apparatus here so it would be hard to check everyone and to make sure that everyone is going to be legitimate. but when you look at security, also, there are questions of capabilities. are they well trained enough to detect these sort of things? do they know what they are looking for? this is one of the concerns that the british government had when they came here to see what the situation was to resume those flights. >> ian, appreciate the reporting tonight. i want to the get to cnn aviation correspondent richard quest. he joins us. so does raffe ron and if you've in and out of bell gurion airport, you know no one does airport security like they do airport security. i want to start with richard. it doesn't matter if you have a check before you drive into the airport, if you have people looking at your passport three or four times and people walking around with machine guns if the backdoor is open and those who
have access to the plane cleaning it or fixing it or catering it aren't even being screened and the reporting as of last night was that the egyptian authorities hadn't even interviewed the people who work at the airport. >> we've well gone beyond alice in wonderland the way this is being handled and not only do you have the egyptians saying it's not a bomb, but now they seem to be saying well, just in case it is a bomb, we'll increase security anyway. >> right, the front door. >> at the front door, not at the backdoor. what this is is a direct reaction to the pressure being put to bear by particularly the british who have already sent in experts to try and tighten up the procedures. my understanding is when the british tourists are going to be evacuated tomorrow, their luggage isn't going to be on their aircraft. they are flying the luggage separately and the planes they
use will have the hold sealed and armed guards around them. why -- until we know first of all whether it was a bomb, and secondly, what was the avenue by which it got on the aircraft, all this other stuff at the front is just window dressing. >> how secure are planes when they are at an airport having maintenance done or getting fueled or having the baggage loaded on? there are people, are there safeguards throughout that process to make sure nothing nefarious happens? because even the united states, we had the case out of the atlanta airport of baggage handlers putting weapons and transporting weapons on aircraft. >> yeah, this is correct. i think that one of the problems with the strategy that we have been implementing since 9/11 is that over 90% of our attention is directed at the passenger and his bags, his or her bags and to a large extent, we have been paying much less attention to issues of facility security.
we had embarrassing incidents like a stowaway 16-year-old boy who lost his life. >> we had a freeze there on the internet. on the connection, on the skype connection. it's ludicrous, it's incredible to me that 14 years after 9/11, here we are still discussing -- >> i'm going to argue both ways. >> -- huge gaps in security. >> the other side of course, is you can never have 100% total security. we all pretty much accept that. you're constantly looking for the weak points, the weakling and what they have to discover here is was this something systemic that it could have happened at any airport or was this something unique to sharm that it could only have happened there because of lax procedures. >> if it is true they are not interviewing those who work at
the airport, that seems to be -- >> we don't know. >> isn't the clock ticking? >> we don't know because frankly the egyptians haven't had any press conferences. they had interviews but nothing like the regular daily press conferences that we would have expected. >> transparency is not something they are used to. malaysians and at least they had press conferences. you do get these things. there is no measure of a correct dissemination after information of where this stands, and into that vacuum, you've got the brits and the americans screaming bombs. you've got the russians and egyptians saying, no, it's not. >> richard, good to have you on. want to apologize for the internet difficulties. up next, what we know about the isis affiliate that claimed responsibility and right now a claim of responsibility for downing the plane and how they may pose a danger to hundreds of u.s. peace keeping troops. there's also more breaking news
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more now on breaking news, the tsa considering security changes at american airports, that and president obama for the first time publicly saying that it is possible a bomb brought down metro jet 9268. an isis affiliate claimed responsibility. however, as you've heard, not everyone is convinced. on the other hand, the group is on the rise in sinai and could be a threat to hundreds of american troops there. brian todd reports. >> reporter: they brought down an egyptian helicopter with a shoulder fired missile. they've claimed they hit this egyptian warship. and right near their stronghold in north sinai is where these u.s. troops are stationed. in early september four american soldiers from that base were wounded in an ied attack believed carried out by size's lethal affiliate in sinai, an attack which prompted the united
states to send reinforcements to boost security. >> when you heard about that attack, what was going through your mind? >>. >> it was like i was right back there. i could remember the base where i was, how i lived and all that and there is concern for the people that are there. >> reporter: in 2011 and 2012, rich green was an army sergeant major deployed with task force sinai, a contingent of about 700 american troops on that peninsula. their position to observe and report what israeli and egyptian forces are doing and report militant activities but these american troops are peacekeepers. they're lightly armed. >> they are out gunned by the terrorists right now and it's a dangerous mission. >> reporter: the american's heaviest weapons were machine guns mounted on tripods. >> the infantry have squad weapons but nothing that would take on a large, you know, coordinated attack. >> reporter: and that's exactly what they may be up against.
the isis affiliate in sinai which u.s. officials citing intelligence say may have been along isis groups that could have planted a bomb on the russian passenger plane is a terror cell growing in capability known as sinai, they pledged allegiance to isis last year. they are one of isis most potent affiliates adopting their brutal tactics. analysts say they killed an american oil worker, beheaded a croatian man. claimed to have killed hundreds of soldiers and assassinated top security officials. american troops are a prize targets. will they get more manpower and weapons? the "associated press" report maryland august that the obama administration was considering whether to bolster the american force or to withdraw it completely from sinai. u.s. officials won't comment on that but one defense official said they are always adapting force protection measures to deal with threats. brian todd, cnn, washington.
>> a lot to discuss. joining us tonight, retired admiral and former commander and chancellor at the university of texas school system. admiral, if in fact, there was a bomb on board this aircraft and if in fact it was isis or an isis affiliated group, how much of a game changer is this? >> well, one, i think it remains to be determined whether or not it was isis but if it was, i'm not sure it's much of a game changer. the fact of the matter is, we need to have a strategy to go the against isis irrespective of whether this was an isis attack or not. i think the president as i have seen reports is beginning to develop a strategy. he's putting 50 special operations forces on the ground in syria, and i think that's a good first step. but clear by we need to look at a broader approach in terms of going after isis. >> in terms of battling isis and trying to defeat them and other groups, you think it's going to take more than just an increase in special operations forces in
the short term. i mean, you've talked about a generational conflict here. >> yeah, i do believe it's a generational conflict and i think the hard part is for the american people to recognize we're in a war. we're in a serious war, and we may not like it. we may not hope that we have to fight it, but the fact of the matter is wishing it away will not make it any easier and so we've got to come up with a strategy to aggressively go after isis. >> there are a lot of people who certainly want to move away from iraq, move away from afghanistan and get all u.s. forces out. what can, you know, 10,000 or however many u.s. forces on the ground in iraq do that we couldn't do years ago with the iraqi forces? >> well, i think we did do it years ago with iraqi forces, anderson. if you take a look at where we were when we left iraq, the iraqi army was in a pretty good place. admittedly, i would like to have seen us stay there longer but i
understand the president's decision to move us out. the iraqi army was in a pretty good position when we left. they were reasonably well trained. they were certainly not as integrated as we would liked to have seen and i think we saw the lack of that integration when isis crossed the border and began to engage. the steps we're taking now in iraq, approximately 3500 folks on the ground, this is a great first step but i think what we got to be able to do is look at this in a broader context. we have to understand this fight against isis is not something we can do on margins but i think this is a generational fight and i think it's going to require, unfortunately, the lives of more young men and women and billions more dollars in order for us to be able to destroy this threat. if we don't do it now, we'll have to do it later. so it's just a matter of timing. >> this is probably a student question but why does it seems the forces the united states support in iraq and afghanistan need billions of dollars and
constant training but the forces we raid against seem to not? i mean, they have foreign fighters. they don't necessarily have extensive training. they seem quite capable in ways that these well-trained forces or once well-trained forces aren't. >> yeah, because they have no rules. because one, they have very little structure so you are fighting this kind of a group in isis. they have leadership and some structure but when you're an unconventional force like isis is, it's much harder to defeat. they live amongst the people day in and day out so the issues from drone strikes and going after the leadership, it's hard to find the leadership when during the day, they look like the average potentially innocent syrians that are out there. so it's just a much, much tougher fight to go against an unconventional enemy that really has no rules of engagement and don't respond to the law of armed conflict and international conventions.
so in some ways it ties our hands to make it harder to go after them. >> admiral, appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. thank you. >> my pleasure, thank you. just ahead, breaking news here at home. disturbing new details about a police officer once hailed as a hero slammed as crooked. see how far investigators say he was willing to go to cover up his alleged crimes before he killed himself. marco rubio says claims he misused a republican party credit card are debunked, that he's been cleared of wrongdoing. what about the two years of missing records showing what he charged? we're keeping them honest ahead.
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about this time last night, we were telling you about a jaw dropping twist in the case of an illinois police officer. turned out lieutenant joe gliniewicz was not murdered after all but staged a crime scene to make it look like he was attacked. he was stealing from a mentoring program he was involved with and was about to be exposed. two family members are being investigated and details how far the officer was prepared to go to coverup the alleged crimes before he killed himself.
rosa flores joins me. the new details that gliniewicz allegedly try odd to have a hit put on the fox village city manager who was looking into a program he was heading up, what's the latest on that? >> reporter: you know, anderson, they are disturbing details and zero in on two specific things that we've learned tonight. first of all, the allegations of planting of evidence on this village administrator and hits against her life. village administrators confirming to cnn tonight that they learned about those threats after lieutenant gliniewicz died, at that point in time, police officers providing security for her and her family to secure her and her family. now, about the possible allegations of planting of evidence, cnn sources do confirm that lieutenant gliniewicz had cocaine in his desk.
this cocaine was obtained after his death. now, late tonight, during a press conference, the press asking village administrators if that cocaine was indeed there to plant on the village administrator. their answer was no. but again, anderson, disturbing details here. >> they are also expanding the investigation now to the family of this officer, is that right? >> reporter: sources confirming to cnn tonight, anderson, that indeed the widow of lieutenant gliniewicz and his son are being investigated for possible relations to the embezzlement. thousands of dollars uncovered yesterday. now cnn sources telling cnn that this widow and her son were heavily involved. again, all of this still under investigation, but i got to mention this because remember those deleted text messages that were released by authorities
yesterday? cnn sources telling us that the individuals in these messages that were exchanging these messages with lieutenant gliniewicz were individual number one who was the widow and individual number two who was the son. investigators reminding everyone yesterday that when you delete a message, that doesn't mean that that message is completely gone. >> rosa flores, thanks very much. what makes that so fascinating is his widow and son were actually very out in front of the cameras defending officer gliniewicz saying there is no way he would have committed suicide so it's interesting to hear now they are a focus of the investigation. the last 48 hours have been wrenching for the community of fox lake but it's fair to say the village administrator anne marrin has gotten the biggest shock of all learning from investigators that the lieutenant wanted to kill her. she joins me for an exclusive interview. >> be ann, when i first heard about this, i was trying to
imagine what went through your mind when you learned that officer gliniewicz was trying to take a hit out on you. >> i was stunned, absolutely stunned. it is definitely not a good feeling and it's very scary in the same sense, as well. it's almost surreal. >> i mean, he not only sent texts about taking a hit out on you, he also sent other texts saying that you hated him even though h neve had had more than three sentences with you or exchanged three sentences with you. did it surprise you to hear that? did you have any idea you -- he thought you hated him? >> absolutely not. it did surprise me. as he said, we had very little conversation and the ones we did were mostly about the explorer program, special events and things such as that so it was very minimal and always very pleasant. there weren't any bad words exchanged. >> so you were brought in to review all the departments in fox lake, and did you notice red flags right away with the explorer program? >> as i started to focus on it,
yes, i did notice red flags. several of them would be when i would ask questions how does this work or who takes care of this, who takes care of the money, how is this paid for? there were a lot of questions nobody seemed to know the answers to, which kind of made me wonder what was really going on there. >> so you reached out to him to get an inventory of the program. how did he initially respond to that? >> i ask if he had an inventory of everything that was in that building, he said yes, ma'am and i said can you get it to me by 2:00 today? he said yes, ma'am. that was the end of the conversation. >> how soon was that before he -- before he died? >> that was the day before. the next day that tuesday morning i received an e-mail from him at about 6:54 a.m. saying i'll have that inventory to you by noon or 1:00 today and then the incident happened. >> and when you initially heard about the incident, you heard, you know, and everyone thought this officer was killed in the
line of duty, were you suspicious at all? >> well, i thought it was strange as far as the timing of the e-mail, where he was because that's not -- it's kind of a remote area, however, you know, we got into first response mode where we were, you know, locking down buildings. we were calling in other agencies. it got to be quite a crazy, hectic day. >> are you concerned for your safety at all still? >> i've been assured not only by the task force, our police department and other agencies out there that i am fine. my biggest fear is for my family and not being able to say a lot of things to them but being scared. it puts a small sense of fear in you of things going on around you. you're more open and more watchful of the world around you. >> i can't imagine what it's like to be doing the job you do and find yourself in this bizarre situation.
as you said, surreal. ann, thank you so much for talking to us. thank you. >> more breaking news tonight, late word on which republicans will not be in the next primetime debate to make the stage at all. also marco rubio says attacks by republican party credit card are old news. drew griffin has been digging and talking to people who knew him when the allegations first began to surface years ago. you're saying marco rubio thought he had carte blanche. >> well he didn't have carte blanche. he had an american express card.
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eight candidates qualified for the primetime debate. chris christie got bumped down. george pa at that time kick and senator lindsey graham will not be debating at all. on the campaign trail, marco rubio's personal finances are being attacked, specifically his alleged misuse of republican party credit card. senator rubio is dismissing the attacks has much to do about nothing. here is what he said on good morning america. >> it wasn't a credit card. it was an american express charge card secured under my personal credit in conjunction with the party. the bills mailed to me at home. every month i went through it. if there was a personal expense i paid it, if it was party, they paid it. i recognized in hindsight i would do it different to avoid all this confusion but the republican party never paid a single personal expense of mine. >> keeping him honest, the allegations senator rubio misused that credit card, they've been following him for
years. they've never completely been put to rift. to rest. here is drew griffin with more. >> reporter: for some of the people that know marco rubio like his former unpaid republican consultant chris ingram, the candidate's explanations are doing little to clear up the controversy. >> to me having known him and seeing him in action and seeing the pattern of behavior of his, the sense of entitlement, the explaining things away without taking any kind of actual accountability or responsibility for what he's done, blaming others and there's always an excuse. >> reporter: questions of marco rubio's spending on a republican party charge card first surfaced in his u.s. senate campaign in 2010 when the tampa bay times and "miami herald" were leaked these, two years of records from when marco rubio was a powerful state lawmaker in tallahassee. the records show lots of personal spending that include movie tickets, charges to a wine store, a family vacation and even $1,000 for damage to his mini van and thousands more for
a rental car to replace it. some of it personal spending that was against the state republican party's rules. rubio has explained them all away. wine store actually sold sandwiches, the mini van damaged at a republican party event. for other questionable charges, a mistaken use of the wrong credit card in his wallet for which he would eventually reimburse the state republican party. in fact, after records became public, rubio paid back more than $16,000 in charges he had placed on the card. it was all part of a major scandal in the florida republican party at the time that sent the party chairman to prison but rubio was never charged. mike fasano, a former republican majority leader in florida who worked with marco rubio in state politics and at one time was considered rubio's mentor says it was a bad time for the florida republican party. >> i was a senator at the time and when he was the majority
leader and incoming speaker and then of course, speaker of the house. you start hearing learning and start reading about how he was abusing the american express card that was given to him by the republican party of florida. >> reporter: after leaving state politics for a job as a county tax collector, fasano no longer talks with marco rubio. he doesn't support him either. he's given some money to the jeb bush campaign but says his questions about marco rubio are not based on a current political campaign. they have concerned him for years. >> it became very disturbing to me of how he was using other people's money. the example he was setting was just spend it as freely as you want and we'll just go out and raise more. >> reporter: why wasn't the republican party and state of florida at that time a better steward of their donated dollars? >> the culture changed when all of a sudden when you become the majority party and have access to literally not just hundreds of thousands but millions of dollars available to you and you can spend them and go out and
just raise more dollars from those same donors. >> reporter: so florida republicans were rolling in dough and you're saying marco rubio thought, i have carte blanche. >> well, he didn't have carte blanche. he had an american express card. >> reporter: but he thought this money is endless? absolutely. and i believe that. >> rubio's campaign insists this is all just rehashing of old news, that everything has been explained and even pointed us to this republican paid audat this time that cleared rubio of any wrongdoing. but there's still a lot we don't know. two years of information on marco rubio's american express charges to be exact and why haven't those records been released? that so far is unclear. he told cnn's dana bash he's working on it. >> it will be soon. i don't know the date. these are old documents. they take time top assemble it. i have no problem releasing it.
>> reporter: rubio has been with holding them at least since 2010 when the same issue came up in the u.s. senate race. chris ingram says rubio could immediately resolve the issue by just releasing the records. >> i think number one, marco could certainly come up with them. he's admitted and acknowledged to me that he has the records, the american express statements for the period of two years. >> reporter: ingram shared this e-mail exchange with cnn that he had with rubio in 2009 in which rubio was trying to explain personal charges on his republican party card. it is virtually the same explanation rubio still gives today. any personal charges were paid by me directly and it's not a republican party of florida card. it is my card opened under the corporate division of amex using my personal credit. ingram says if he were advising rubio today, he would tell him the same thing he says he told hip back then, release the records and end the controversy. but chris ingram flatly says telling the actual truth is just
not the marco rubio he knows. >> i think that maybe he doesn't see the real truth as being important and i think that he sees that his indiscretions are not really a problem. >> so why hasn't the senator released the records? has he ever given a reason? >> well, when first asked in 2010, he said he wasn't going to release them. he said they were private property of himself and the republican party. he wasn't required to release them. he's changed his tune. now he's under fire by national press under pressure to release them so now he says he will release them as soon as he can get those records together. >> but so far, he's yet to release any of the records voluntarily at this point. >> correct. those two years of records that we cited, they came from a leak. and so far, no other records have surfaced publicly. >> drew griffin, thanks very much. we'll be right back.
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president obama today said it was a possibility a bomb brought the russian airbus down with the loss of 224 lives. we'll continue to monitor development. that does it for us. anthony bourdain, parts unknown, starts now. >> when i first went up this river, i was sick with love. the bad kind, the fist around your heart kind. i ran far, but there was no escaping it. it followed me up river all the way. that was ten long years ago. a previous episode of a previous series in a previous life.