Skip to main content

tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  November 13, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PST

6:00 pm
welcome back. we're coming back at the top of the hour. there was shootings, bombings, soccer stadium, crowded concert hall where at least 112 people died in a siege in what one eyewitness describes as a slaughter. at least 112 dead at the bataclan theater, four on a city street and four outside the stadium itself. five attackers have been neutralized, we don't know if that's killed or captured. paris is under curfew. french borders closed. new information moment by moment and we bring it to you as soon as we get it. jim is on the scene in paris tonight for us and joins us now. jim, in the last hour you're describing the long line of ambulances. what are you seeing tonight?
6:01 pm
>> reporter: anderson, still a number, at least probably 20 or 30 ambulances parked down the street here. we've been seeing them go in one by one. some withdrawn, we're not sure if they have anybody, taking anybody away. we've also seen a number of victims walking away with metallized blankets around them that the fire department officials have given them. walking away from the scene. the people that i guess were not injuried at all. but there is still a lot of activity going on here. there is a meeting taking police with emergency workers and we saw something else we talked about, the idea that perhaps somebody got away. there may have been some that got away. we saw a dog unit that was brought in and perhaps to sniff the trail of some of the attackers. i'm not sure exactly what the purpose of that was. there was a dog unit here as well. just a little bit of information
6:02 pm
from the paris city hall speaks to how seriously this is taken across the country. the president saying that the borders of france are sealed, that whole neighborhoods are going to be cordened off and things are going to be different with security checks after this attack but the city hall said today that all protests will be cancelled for tomorrow. that's saturday. all city halls around paris, 20 city halls around the city, they will be closed, too. all schools, museums, libraries, gyms, swimming pools, and grocery stores will be closed tomorrow, as well, according to city hall officials, anderson? >> that's an extraordinary fact when you think about it, a city, paris, international city basically any location where people would gather is going to be closed in order to prevent the possibility of there being another attack, is that correct? >> reporter: i think that's what it shows.
6:03 pm
i think that's what it demonstrates. you can say probably in solidarity with the victims but demonstrates there uncertainty about exactly whether this is all over. anderson? >> and it's obviously very wise move. i mean, we saw in the wake of charlie hebdo as we remember, not only the initial attack on charlie hebdo but there was different gunmen going in different locations and two, what ended up, days later with two stand offs in separate locations and more people lost their lives. prudence on the part of authorities there. jim, we'll continue to check in. just before air time, i spoke with a woman, charlotte brayho was her name. listen to her experience. charlotte, you were eating at the restaurant, walk us through what happened. >> i was eating at a restaurant with a friend of mine. all of a sudden, we heard huge
6:04 pm
gunshots and lots of glass coming through the window, so we ducked onto the floor with all of the other diners and we heard numerous more gunshots coming through the window and shards of glass were hitting people lying down on the floor and i was holding a woman's arm next to me and when i suddenly started to process what was happening, was asking around if people were okay and i realized she had been fatally wounded, she had been shot in the chest and there was blood all around her and there were other people in the restaurant, as well, who had been fatally injured. >> how crowded was the restaurant? >> it was really busy. it was a friday night in paris. it's quite a young area. so it was quite lively and it's a small restaurant, only 40 people i would say eating there. it's like 30 square meters.
6:05 pm
so it's a small place to target. and yeah, it was a lot -- a feeling of terror, i think, and panic among everybody there. >> could you see any of the shooters or the shooter? do you know if there were multiple people? >> i didn't see anything. i immediately looked away from where the glass and the gunshots were firing so i didn't see any shooters. i believe there was more than one. it sounded like there would be more than one and it also sounded as if they had stopped to reload and then reloaded again and then more gunshots fired the second time around. >> was it your sense that they had actually entered the restaurant or were they shooting from the street? >> they were shooting from the street and i heard reports there was a drive by, so that makes some sense. it seemed as if they weren't coming in and i think the initial shock of there being
6:06 pm
casualties in the restaurant and shots going into the restaurant after that, we were waiting to see whether or not they would come in but they didn't. thankfully. >> do you have any idea how many people were wounded and/or killed? >> i saw personally, maybe three or four people fatally wounded. i saw people with some blood over them, but i didn't have time to make that kind of estimation. i've heard, since heard seven people were fatally wounded in the restaurant that i was in, but i'm not sure. personally, i felt as soon as we hit the floor that it -- the first thing i thought of were the charlie hebdo attacks. so since that, i've not been very surprised to hear that there's been a correlation that's been made. it was the same kind of feeling of dread and uncertainty that we
6:07 pm
had in january this year. >> but the woman whose hand you were holding or whose arm you were holding, she died? >> i don't know. i don't know. i was holding her hand and somebody asked me if she was breathing and i looked and i saw a pool of blood next to her and i couldn't tell. i thought maybe she had been conscious but to be honest, it happened so quickly and it didn't -- no one was in a state to do anything because people were sort of frozen in shock, so i don't know. i don't know what happened to her. >> how long did this go on for? you said it seemed like they paused to reload and shot again. do you have a sense how long the entire incident was? >> i think it probably wasn't very long. i think it was maybe two or three minutes maximum. it felt like longer. >> what happened once the shots
6:08 pm
stopped? >> people waited for a couple of minutes because we weren't sure whether or not someone would come back into the restaurant or come into the restaurant at all and then once we thought the coast was clear, myself and the person that i was with who had gone for dinner, we ran out onto the street and i live 15 minutes away from the restaurant so we ran straight to my house. >> are you okay? >> absolutely fine. it was really strange because for me because i was with a friend and we were sat right at the window where the shots came through and they missed both of us, and like i said, it was really a small restaurant, so it was strange and extremely lucky that we both came out of it okay and i'm just thankful and praying really praying that the people who were there who were
6:09 pm
hurt make it through. >> charlotte, thanks for talking to us and so glad you're okay and wish you the best. >> thank you. she was in the cambodia restaurant that was hit and as we were reporting earlier in the last hour, i want to give you just the break down. we now know the latest figures were that 14 people are believed to at least, at least 14 were believed to have been killed inside that restaurant. so she was saying it's a restaurant that maybe had 40 or so people in it. she was very lucky to survive. 112 at least killed at the concert venue. another 19 people killed some shootings outside a bar, l lb belle equipe and avenue de la
6:10 pm
republique and four outside stade de france. any americans living in paris listening to us on cnn international, this is logistical information, the hot line for the state department is obviously flooded with calls from americans who are concerned about loved ones in paris. they are trying to take information about americans in paris. they are passing it onto the embassy where officials are trying to figure out the welfare of each american currently in france or paris. that's a laborious process. any u.s. citizens in paris right now who are safe and are okay are being asked by the state department to please call their families, to do this as soon as possible even though it's very late there in paris. to let them know that you're okay so they are not then
6:11 pm
calling the state department as well. tieing up anybody who may so americans needing assistance, call. the number on your screen that's for those in the united states concerned about loved ones in paris. if you're concerned about your loved ones in paris call 1888-407-4747. if you're in france and you need assistance, this is only for people in france needing assistance, 011-202-501-4444. if you're an american in paris, call your families, please let them know you're okay, that you will put their minds to rest and help the state department help others more efficiently. our justice reporter evan perez
6:12 pm
joins us now. you've been working your sources talking to people. what have you been hearing about concerns about threats in the united states? >> well, anderson, that's exactly what the fbi and the u.s. intelligence agencies are working at this hour. they are going through intelligence streams they have including signals and intelligence. the u.s. does a lot of collection of communications overseas and what they want to do at this hour is to see whether there was anything that they have in their possession that perhaps didn't raise concerns before but that now perhaps makes sense, whether there was any warnings missed or indications of planning. this was an attack they believe was simultaneous, clearly very well planned and orchestrated and what they want to know is how that possibly could have happened without raising any kind of intelligence concerns either in france or for the u.s. which is keeping an eye on things there, obviously very concerned about the safety of
6:13 pm
americans traveling there but just in general, they want to know when things like this could be happening because they could -- there could be attacks here as we reported before. sometimes these things are triggers for attacks elsewhere. that's a big concern of theirs. the other thing here, anderson, that i keep hearing from officials we've been talking about is that this is markers of mumbi that killed 166 people and in over a period of a couple days and the attackers did exactly this. attacking one police went there and by the time the authorities were able to secure, they were somewhere else. that's what appears and so that's obviously raising a lot of concerns. we know that here in the united states, new york police, los angeles police posted additional security of locations where they hope to assure the public and where there is concern that
6:14 pm
someone might try to carry out copy cat attacks. >> we should point out what seems to be any evidence of this attack at this stage. he was on the phone with terrorists watching news reports and telling terrorists at different locations, kill that hostage, they are coming in to get you. >> exactly. one of the things that occurred is that they didn't capture some of that intelligence, some of that communication until afterwards because they were using u.s. phones. those are things intelligence agencies here are looking for,
6:15 pm
combing through at this hour. >> appreciate your reporting. in terms of what we know, what stands out the most to you? >> well, obviously until now we're faced small scale attacks were foiled, small scale attacks obviously now we're in a new step with individuals coordinating themselves acting simultaneously in several points. it's something really new stage in the war against those terrorists and we're speaking about links with the situation in syria, the link is always and
6:16 pm
one of the shooters and for what happened tonight, just before. >> we lost the transmission there. it happens sometimes in live television. i want to go to phillip mud with the cia and fbi and also bob crook shank in terms of the capabilities of these attackers, again, we don't know what level of training they had, how much training do you actually need, though, to mount attacks like this relatively coordinated, whether exactly simultaneous. we don't know the exact time frame of how many minutes. as you see this, how technically sophisticated is this operation. >> well, anderson, these were
6:17 pm
soft targets of course. but getting seven groups to hit targets simultaneously is not easy. i've trained these groups over and over, not for terrorism but you have to spend time with them and trust each other and know who will pull the trigger and have to vet these people. you simply can't take, you know, 14, 15 volunteers and hope that they will carry out the missions. that's not the way the world works. these guys were organized and had some sort of training and we'll have to wait to see where that was. >> yeah, phil mud, do you agree with that? as i remember the last attacks, those guys had long-term training trained over the course of a year or so and had a central controller orchestrating that. >> that's right. i think there are a couple surprises here that sophistication to my mind and surprises to me, number one and
6:18 pm
operational security, i believe a couple of them were on the radar to plan that with not higher up on the radar interesting and to me a bit surprising, the second thing, anderson, this amount of planning and people you got to wonder whether something triggered this attack early and this group would sit back and say we're going to pick targets that are immediately recognizable where somebody, anybody around the world watching cnn will say i know why they picked that target, as they did with charlie hebdo when everybody in the islamic is saying charlie hebdo is identified with anti muslim cartoon. curiosity is one and operational sophistication two. why do you go against targets that are things like a cambodia
6:19 pm
restaurant? it's not identifiable for someone that wants to spread the islam message. >> i guess you can look at it as one of the very frightening things about this because these are not obvious targets, they don't have the level of security, are we now in an age where the targeted self-doesn't necessarily matter for these killers for these terrorists as a lot of it makes a splash as long as they can kill large amount of people. >> sophistication of the people absorbing the isis message is not high, now you're having people that don't have that coordination. they are not going and not worry about taking it and not worry
6:20 pm
about the target is iconic. the new york police department for example this evening and trying to determine and here is my message you can't protect the city to prevent this. >> paul, paul, all you can really and the time frame and how do you respond to them? you can't predict unless you did get and can't predict what the target is going to be. all you can do is cut down response time? >> that's absolutely and it is been prying for this charlie just a followup to the point, the fact that there was the attack here they were spraying bullets into restaurants, tries to make a splash, i think that may actually point more towards
6:21 pm
isis than al qaeda because in 2013, the leader of al qaeda said to all his followers around the world, you should not launch indiscriminate attacks on marketplaces because they may kill muslims. also, the al qaeda affiliate in syria has said they are ordered not to launch attacks against the west from syria. i think the targets that were selected point more tonight towards this bein being an isis attack. the brothers only targeted the cartoonest. this violence points towards isis and a group to go after soft targets, anderson.
6:22 pm
>> to the point you made about there is some connext to other groups. if there was -- sorry, actually, what you said is that it's likely they were on somebody's radar previously or some were on somebody's radar. the scary thing would be if they weren't on somebody's radar. on one hand you say maybe they were on somebody's radar and maybe somebody dropped the ball or there weren't forces to monitor them but if they weren't on anybody's radar, that would be more of a concern. >> that's right. the likelihood they weren't on somebody's radar is none. you're not only looking at conspirators and co-conspirators but people that have made for example travel arrangements, false documents, provision of money and explosives. this plot will multiply.
6:23 pm
this these plotters were more than one degree of separation from somebody under surveillance, i would be shocked. the chances are near zero. too much surveillance going on. the problem is there are too many people under surveillance in determining which people you want to have under for example physical surveillance is near impossible when you're talking about the thousands who are returning from iraq and syria. >> impossible in terms of manpower alone. >> that's right. not only manpower but remember the electronic surveillance when these people are on cell phone, facebook, e-mail. you're talking about realtime surveillance not only in a physical sense on the street which is the toughest to do in terms of manpower, you're talking an analyst that have to absorb digital data and add to that if they speak another language, for example arabic, you have to deal with the translation aspect, as well.
6:24 pm
the numbers of people to look at any individual case that involves surveillance is misunderstood by the public. it is very, very difficult to keep any number of people under serious surveillance for a long ti time. >> just getting more information specific to the bataclan concert venue. we're learning from paris police that four attackers were killed, four would be terrorists were killed when the police went in to the bataclan theater. three were found with explosive belts on, not explosive vests but belts. so four attackers were killed, three were wearing some form of explosive belts. one of the eyewitnesss or the eyewitness who i talked to earlier and we'll bring you his statements to us again because what he said was just so chilling and really takes you inside what was happening in that theater.
6:25 pm
he witnessed, he said he saw two to three gunmen firing into the crowd. firing execution style to people pretending to be dead, they took their time and shot them point blank as they were laying face down, they then took time to reload and fire it again. he saw only two to three but now paris police are saying four attackers were in fact inside that theater and killed. three were wearing explosive belts. we don't know if there were more attacker whose got away. that is obviously something police are looking into. jim bitterman saw dogs on the site that could have perhaps been bomb sniffing dogs, could have been tracking dogs looking to see if there pay have been anybody else that got away because a large number of hostages were removed and exiting to make sure that a
6:26 pm
potential gunman did not exit or terrorists didn't exit with those people who had been held hostage. we've got a lot more ahead. we're going to take a short break. our coverage continues as we're getting more and more information. we are going to bring you the eye witness statements from inside the bataclan theater in a moment. with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb.
6:27 pm
tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. but life was inviting us all this time. to step into the great unknown. in a place where riches... were measured in footsteps... flavors and friends. we tasted cuisine we'd only heard about and for the first time... felt like locals. ♪ call it magic. we called it ours. mazatlan. live it to believe it. the more gaps you may find.ur insurance, like how you think you have coverage for this... when you only have coverage for this... that's not homework!! talk to farmers and see what gaps
6:28 pm
could be hiding in your coverage. ♪ we are farmers bum - pa - dum. bum - bum - bum - bum ♪
6:29 pm
. welcome back. we just got information before the break we tol you about four of the terrorists attackers at the bataclan were killed inside that theater when police finally went in. three of those killed were wearing some form of explosive belt. the latest from paris jim brought us, this city of millions of people will be virtually shut down tomorrow.
6:30 pm
government offices closed, schools closed, museums, libraries, groceries, anyplaces people with gather, gyms, off limits. the borders closed. travel restricted. the death toll rising at this hour this 153 including at least 112 at the major concert venue, the bataclan. we talked to julien pearce. his account is chilling. we spoke to him earlier. describe what you saw, what you heard, julien. >> the show was about to end. the band was playing for about hon hour and suddenly we heard gunshots coming from behind us and when i looked back, i saw at
6:31 pm
least two men, unmasked men, maybe three, but the confusion i can't tell you exactly but they were holding assault rifles, ak-47s i'm sure about it and they were firing randomly to the crowd. and so obviously, we all lie down on the floor to not get hurt and it was a huge panic and the terrorists shot at us for like ten or 15 minutes. it was a blood bath. they shot at us and reloaded multiple times. it's actually what i escape
6:32 pm
because they reloaded basically. i just waited for the time they reloaded to to climb the scene and to hide behind it and i try to help people around me and it was shocking. it was panic. huge panic and so shot at us for 15, ten to 15 minutes. it was long. it was very, very long and the bataclan is not a huge concert room. it's about 1,000 people can gather in it and it was overcrowded. i mean, there were no empty room, it was sold out, basically. so it was easy for them. >> were they standing and shooting? were they moving around? >> they were not moving, actually. they were just standing at the
6:33 pm
back of the scene, at the back of the crowd and they were just shooting on the floor because everybody was on the floor and i seen one of the guys, very young, actually, he was like 18 years old, 19 years old, maximum 20, maximum and he was executing people on the floor. the person around him, he was holding these rifles down and shooting on people. so they were not moving, actually. they were just standing at the back of the concert room and shooting at us like if we were birds. >> were they saying anything? >> i didn't hear anything about them. i haven't heard anything. i have friends who escaped who
6:34 pm
heard them talking about iraq and syria, but i'm not quite sure about it, but i haven't heard anything but screaming of the people. >> julien, when you went to the concert, was there metal detectors or anything when you went in? were you searched by security? >> nothing. not body searched, nothing. just show my ticket. they flashed it and that's it. i mean, they didn't look to my bag and didn't look at nothing. security was very poor. >> so basically, the scene you're describing is one where basically everybody was laying down on the floor and over the course of ten or 15 minutes, these people were going around shooting people, executing them point blank. >> yeah, at the scene, that's what happened and hopefully i was in the front of the -- i was at the front of the scene so i
6:35 pm
was some kind of protected by the bullets and but everybody was panicking. everybody was trying to escape so everybody was walking on bodies to try to climb on the scene to get protection and so i said to the people around me just to calm down and hide and play dead basically and we waited. we waited for the time to climb the scene and to hide in a small room on the right of the scene, but unfortunately, there were no escapes in that room, just a closed room. so we were trapped. so we waited for five minutes. they stopped shooting. and they reloaded again and we run on the scene to find an
6:36 pm
exit, and it's when i found an exit that i discovered the body of a young girl that was shot twice in the leg. she was bleeding very badly, and i grabbed her and i put her on my back and we run together and in the streets for 200 or 300 meters and i found a cab and i stopped the cab and i said to the taxi driver, well, go to the hospital with her, but she was bleeding so badly, i don't know if she make it. i don't know if she's alive. >> i appreciate you talking about what you skpau thank you very much. i wish you the best. the latest information we have is there were four terrorists killed according to french police this evening. three were found to be wearing
6:37 pm
explosive belts we're told. it's not clear if those were the only terrorists, the only gunmen in the theater itself or if others got away. obviously, police are on a high state of alert tonight and as we've learned, much of paris will be shut down tomorrow, gyms, workplaces government offices, schools, it seems like those will be closed tomorrow, both out of respect for what happened on friday but out of an abundance of caution to make it less likely and restaurants, as well, less likely another attack or more could occur in case there are more terrorists out there. american officials telling us -- i want to show you images, that is one world trade lit up in solidarity. american officials say they are
6:38 pm
closely monitoring this. one fear, obviously, is copy cat attacks. i want to turn to mike rogers, security commentator and chairman of the house intelligence committee. chairman, what stands out to you tonight from what you've seen over the last several hours. >> as the details unfold, i find fascinating, if you had seven different sites and there appears to be seventh different sites, two engaged suicide bombers or at least suicide attackers. at the theater, those folks clearly were ready to die there and not believing they would leave. you had suicide bombers detonate at the stadium and drive-by shootings, those folks did not believe they would die. if you do the math, you have people that have to surveil the sites, logistics to do surveillance and get them there and drop these off if they are suicide vests. there is a bigger footprint of
6:39 pm
people in the last number i saw was five dead. that means if you do two per, that's 14. it's likely bigger than that. the car, some reports i saw had three people, four people in it. start adding. >> and five dead accounted for. that's why i think they are shutting the board rders down, closing the city tomorrow. they have -- their problems are just beginning tonight as they try to track down these other terrorists on the loose. >> and if it is that many people, what does it tell you about their operational security. the fact until they operational. >> again, that's also very, very interesting. it means they were disciplined in their operational security or at least likely to have discipline in their operational security. if some people came in from
6:40 pm
refugee pools, you know, the length and time of this would tell me that these folks had to have been here for at least several months in order to pull this off. but not necessarily. they could have had planners here and then filled it with operational guys but bringing them in overtime. so a lot of questions yet to be answered on how this unfolded but it does tell you that there are still gaps. you know, the french passed a pretty aggressive anti-terrorists bill that allowed them to actually go to phone companies without a warrant and get information about suspected terrorists. the very fact these folks were able to put it together and pull something this significant off and clearly there was coordination here tells you that either their operational security of the terrorists was very good or they are just overwhelmed with the sheer number of folks they are trying to track in france that may be suspects of terrorist plotting.
6:41 pm
>> yeah, we should also point out in france, in terms of countries in europe accepting refugees, they are accepting a small number compared to germany. they committed to accepting some 20,000 over the next two years and you look at germany, they are receiving 800,000, 900,000 over this last year. we did talk to that one eye witness in the theater that said that his friends had heard some of the terrorists talking and he believes they were speaking in french. but again, he didn't hear that himself. so i'm always wary about somebody reporting what their friends told him. i want to bring in dan oshay former hostage negotiator and a single threat running through terror attacks and the downing of the russian airliner joining us also is cnn contributor michael weiss, the author of "isis inside the army of
6:42 pm
terror." as you look at the information we're getting and drips and drabs, what mosts interests you and what most at this point do you want to know more about? >> well, a lot of your previous guests brought up the very fact that this was a decentralized attack. seven different attacks throughout the city and mr. rogers brought up the fact five are accounted for and background cell of active participates is running around free and ramped and you have to look at the lose g -- logistics this is baghdad in 2005 in paris in 2015. which major city is going to be next? there is a lot of troubling, troubling things here and this is just foreshadowing the future and this is a very sad development on many, many levels pointed out already. >> dan, you worked on hostage situations in iraq for a long time. you were involved with a lot of
6:43 pm
them. what is interesting about what seems like the nature of these attacks and what we saw in the theater here is that they may be holding hostages or maybe people hostages inside but this is not a traditional hostage situation where you bring in a hostage negotiat negotiator. they are not looking to negotiate for a solution to this or end to this. there's almost no point in -- it seems like from law enforcement, i know the new york police department believes in a situation like this, you're not bringing in a hostage negotiator, yo u have to go in because they are determined to die, anyway. >> no, absolutely. and you look at the seven areas, the theater, the soccer game between france and germany, the theater which was an american band playing that would attract a lot of americans. they attacked cambodia restaurant, so this is part of the aim. this is really a global attack and again, you're guest brought
6:44 pm
this up. this is worldwide. this is coming back home. people were horrified by the beheadings and kidnaps and the iraqi community and islam community protested this and they were so reviled but this but now ten years later, people are encouraged by this and you're driving recruits from throughout the west now that are being driven as a victory and that's troubling that you have ten years later this sense of barb barber ris m and beheading. this is not normal and nor should it be on any measure. it's what is happening and the crows coming home to roost and we'll see more. >> michael, for a small number of people, for -- and it is an important number of people, they watched this, they watched the city of paris shutting down.
6:45 pm
they watched the borders of france closing. they watched the death toll rising and they are pleased tonight watching this and this is going to drive more people to join this horrific cause. >> absolutely. i mean, look, one of the main propaganda blanks is remaining and expanding. everyone should immigrate. they should move into raqqah and the borders of the caliphate will grow out ward. the caliphate is detracting. they just lost the town of sinjar and iraq. so what have they done? if you listen to the spokesman of isis he runs syria on behalf of the organization, he says look, you don't have to come here any longer. you can stay in your home cities. you can become sleeper cells and joining isis is pledging alliance and having it accepted. we've seen a stunning debut by the affiliate in egypt take down a commercial airliner by putting a bomb supposedly in the fuel
6:46 pm
tank. this is what we have to be very, very weary of. as isis loses in their heartland, they will look to increase spectaculars and what worries me about this, these guys knew that that theater had no security protocol. they probably attended concerts before tonight's knowing they could get in with ak-47s and according to eye witnesses, suicide bomb vests or belts where they were probably looking to detonate themselves at some point. so this is months and months of planning, recognizance and yeah, i'm sure we're talking four captured or killed terrorists, there is probably a dozen and that means they entrenched in france. what are we to do? you can't issue a travel warning. it's not like going to beirut. the u.s. doesn't say don't go to
6:47 pm
paris, an international city, one of the most beautiful on the planet. if this is is isis the butchers bill lately is incredibly dire and incredibly impressive to them as an organization. >> we often turn to you in a situation like this unfortunately, yourself a former islamist extremists, the book "radical my journey out of extreme missile" is one of my favorite reads but how does one counter this? how do we counter this? >> well, thank you, anderson for the remarks, building on what michael said, where is terrorism that we used to know it in the old days, which now, you know, almost looks like the good old days unfortunately. terrorism used to be state sponsored. one of the earliest suicide bombings, we have those low
6:48 pm
memories and beirut in the '80s when the u.s. marine base was attacked and hundreds died. there was always a state span sore and whether libya or iran, that's what we're used to and know where to focus our intelligence. then terriorism moved to bin laden's lifetime when at least we knew it was within a certain organization that had a hierarchy like an organized crime gang so we knew who to hunt and destroy and where to focus our energy operation to make them and under them incapable of carrying out operations. what is happening is the itemization of jihad. people no longer need a form of affiliation to the organizations or state. of course, isis declares itself as a state but if isis stays in raqqah, the capital, i don't
6:49 pm
think people need any form of state to be motivated to carry out such attacks and the reason for that is because when it itemizes in this way, they need sufficient motivation and the belief in the cause because what we're seeing here, what we're witnessing is an idea and this idea has taken root beyond raqqah and syria and iraq so that's why we saw that the people in sinai declared or the province of isis of the sinai in egypt saw in libya where chunks of that country sure come to this form of terrice l aorism ae groups have broken away from the taliban and declared isis and afghanistan. if we remove the nerve center, we don't know where this will rear its head next and tells us something, it tells us until we get to the bottom of the appeal of this idea, you know, you've got angry young people who are adopting this form of total tar
6:50 pm
yin and somehow it has to become unappealing and with everything we've heard so far, that's an incredibly difficult task and will take a long time but something we have to start getting our heads around. >> i want to bring in tom foreman because at this point, i the scope of these attacks and the degree graphic distance between them. walk us through what we know. >> all this occurred north and to the east of the tourist locations that you would normally go in paris. the bottom line is these things happened north of the areas you usually go. bataclan is a very short distance away from where the "charlie hebdo" attacks were. if you move into theater. this theater is a medium sized
6:51 pm
venue. it would hold about a thousand people, maybe a few more but not a lot. this is a photograph taken by the bass player from the band just before the concert tonight. this is that location a short walk away from "charlie hebdo." from the street you can get a sense of what it looks like. you saw the victims out in front of here and other places being handled. some of the buildings are a little higher than theater. up the road not terribly far. you can see a dot over there that is one of the smaller attacks. and when we move up to this restaurant up here, le petit cambodge. it is a smaller spot. this is when it is shut down. but you can see an image of when it is open. this is a very densely populated
6:52 pm
arrondissement of france. then as we move to the stadium further north that can seat about 80,000 people. there will be questions about what this suicide bomber intended as the target up here. we had one of the smallest numbers of casualties up here at the stadium even though that's where the suicide bombers hit. questions about how the targets were chosen, how they attacked and who else might still be out there after going through all this geography tonight. >> 112 that we know at the concert venue, 14 at the cambodian restaurant, 19 at the bar, la belle equipe.
6:53 pm
four on the avenue derepublic and four outside of the stadium. >> this is related to the link between these attackers and the situation, the context in syria and rauk. one of the attackers at le bataclan shouted he was happening with what is happening in syria, making a clear link with what is happening there which also coincides with what these investigators think are related to the context of syria and iraq. >> do we know if the terrorists who said those comments in theater, was he speaking in french, do you know? >> yes, he was speaking in french, absolutely. >> okay. so the idea would be that this
6:54 pm
is somebody who has obviously spent time in france. this is not necessarily someone who has just come into the country, or at the very least someone who knows how to speak french. >> it's too soon to tell if it's someone who stayed here in france or, yes, spent some time in syria fighting with a terrorist organization. that, we don't know yet. >> in terms of the capabilities of law enforcement and intelligence agencies in france, how do you assess them? have there been a change in the wake of the "charlie hebdo" attack? >> after "charlie hebdo" attacks, there were a lot of announcements, unfortunately, since that time, we know that the services judicial services, the intelligence services are overwhelmed by the situation.
6:55 pm
there's about 2,000 french citizens involved in the jihadist groups or organizations in france or abroad. and in addition to that, there is 3,800 french individuals that we know are radicalized since about two years now. that means a lot of people to track down basically. but we knew, unfortunately, something like that, not at that scale but could happen one day. >> also, do you know what the response is by french law enforcement? in the united states now when there is active shooter situations the idea is that law enforcement goes in immediately. they don't wait for a tactical unit or a s.w.a.t. team. they have to go in and respond. most of the killings take place within the first several minutes. is that the same belief in paris
6:56 pm
that initial units responding go in or traditionally do they create a perimeter and wait for heavier armed tactical unit? >> well, yes, this is the case, unfortunately, there is a procedure and it might take some time until the tactical units are in place and ready for an intervention and that's what happened tonight in paris unfortunately. so there's quite a bit of procedure for them to intervene and be able to respond. >> john charles, i appreciate you being with us. i want to bring in mike rogers as well. it's interesting to hear that there is still in paris an idea of create a perimeter and wait for tactical units. in the wake of the columbine attacks, that changed. and in new york, you don't have
6:57 pm
time to wait. you have to go in and you have to kill or neutralize the gunmen immediately. >> and you have to remember, and their tactics are designed this way. you create chaos around a few square blocks. that creates a bit of confusion with the law enforcement. they have limited resources and have to respond. they have a counterterrorism tactical unit. and i saw footage earlier from your affiliate there, you could see the guys getting out of civilian cars. they probably drove directly to the site. that would doubt for some time and you don't want to send them in not going what is going on. those are the time factors you can't do much about. it seems it took too long to make the decision to go in the door. they're going to -- monday morning quarterback that to det death i can imagine.
6:58 pm
it sounds like, though, when they breached the building they did it correctly. they were able to kill all four attackers with no police killed and they couldn't detonate their belts which means they were as good as they could be once they entered the building. >> it's remarkable that the belts were not detonated by any of the terrorists there that had them on. what do you make of the fact that according to jean charles one of the terrorists was yelling about syria. >> very clearly, this has terrorist underpinnings. if that is true and you track the social media coming out where isis is taking cred for it and there will be more of this. that not as credible as put all the pieces together. i would argue the factors you see lining up and the tactics
6:59 pm
that we saw on all six sites would leave me to believe it's an isis attack versus an al qaeda attack. and clearly, they are using this syria portion of it. and, anderson, we know that baghdadi has been calling for these smaller attacks and do it in your hometowns, we have seen that mantra for months leading into this. this is what happens when you let it boil out thinking it will burn itself out. it's not, lebanon, here, you saw it in egypt. we is saw activities in afghanistan. it is not contained, as the president said today. i think it's getting worse. we will have to do something about it and the french are eager to do that. >> there is a lot at this hour still to learn and no doubt in the hours and days ahead we will
7:00 pm
be learning an awful lot more. at this point, the death toll stands at 153, the majority of those killed were killed at the concert venue. we will continue to cover this all night long. we'll have resources all weekend we'll have resources all weekend long. -- captions by vitac -- > breaking news break>>s reeling frreeling from coordina attacks. r at leaat leastp at l aftp after multiple shootin several explosioseveral expld e bataclan concert hall.ataclan s.w.a.t. teams stormed the venue, killing four attackers and


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on