tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN November 15, 2015 7:00am-8:01am PST
>> thanks for spending this hour with us. we'll be back here at noon live. a live edition of fareez zakaria gps starts now. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm coming to you live from new york. today a special report tackling all aspects of the attacks in paris. we'll bring you the latest in the investigation. we'll ask how can europe and the united states be protected against future attacks with reports that one terrorist snun snuck in refugees. we'll ask whether borders will
be slammed shut. are attacks like this part of a frighteni inin ining new plan b. finally, how can muslims be steered away from radicalization? first, here's my take. before we delve into analysis, let's take a in a moment to be stunned and saddened. the barberism of the attacks in paris mark a new low in terror. the attacks were not directed against national symbols or government targets but designed to kill innocent men, women and children. the murders did not even bother to issue demands. france's president has scored friday's attack an act of war. they were worse. war has a goal. it's fight by soldiers against
violence. this is violence. that doesn't answer the question what to do. in the wake of the attacks people rightly ask what could france have done better? what could the united states have done better? people are offering up various solutions regarding borders, visa's police procedures and the battle against iraq and syria. would this really have prevented these kinds of attacks. france already has in place very tough anti-terrorism policies at home. the united states has spent $5 billion and launched over 8,000 air strikes against isis. would more strikes have resulted in fewer terrorist responses by i isis? would the vary policis people have implicated have stopped the paris attacks? we don't know the details but
they appeared to have been carried out by seven or eight people armed with weapons that are easily obtainable anywhere in the world, coordinated in the sense they all attacked at the same time. they chose soft targets that are difficult to depends. ca cafes and concert halls. it just required bar barety and a willingness to die. the war against isis will intensify with the united states and france, possibly even sending troops in there. at home it will mean more domestic laws to monitor and arrest people. given the news about terrorism posing as refugees it could mean that borders will be closed. it will fuel the rise of nationalist politicians everywhere and the my trust between the muslim and nonmuslim
communities will grow. it's worth asking what does isis want? by most accounts it wants all of this, a world divided between muslims and non-muslims. it has always openly tried to draw western forces into iraq and syria hoping to make itself the great army of believers fighting the crusaders. imagine in the west could respond to terror attacks with increased and more effective efforts at home and with the determination to demonstrate that it would act but not overreact. that it would reaffirm its basic values and strive to restore normalcy in the face of brutality. to do this would be to understand that terrorism is unique in that it depends for its effect i haviveneiveness on response of the onlooker.
if we're not terrorized then it doesn't really work. let's get started. let's get right to the latest with cnn senior international correspondent. she's coming to us live from paris where she's near the scene of the attack on the concert hall. first, i have to ask you about this new revelation that cnn has found about the terrorist, one of the bombers posing as a refugee. do we have more details on that? >> reporter: it now appears that three attackers posed as refugees gaining access into europe going from syria into turkey and on to the greek island and then from there on
through countries, serbia and croatia and into central europe. one was probably traveling on fake syrian passport. there's also talk about two fake turkish passports. really exploiting this refugee crisis. the vast majority of the hundreds of thousands of syrian refugees are escaping the very violence that isis is perpetrating inside syria. by doing this they created doubt about the intentions of these refugees and given a lot of head wind to right wind parties that might be actively asking for refugees to be curtailed. at this stage, what we know specifically, one of these attackers using what is believed to be a fake passport and two others. you've seen the refugee trail to
gain access to central europe. >> poland has already announced in light of this one revelation they will shut down and not take anymore refugees. what about the eighth attacker? there's seven who died but there was talk there was eight and there was a man hunt. do we have any news on that potentially eighth attacker? >> reporter: this is really the focus of the investigation here in france. if you remember that isis statement said very clearly and specifically that there were eight attackers but french authorities said that seven attackers have been killed. we know that there was an abandoned get away car. it was left in the paris suburb. three guns were found in that car. it's believed it was abandoned after the attack. someone was driving the car. are they possibly the eighth attacker. that's focus of the investigation at the moment and
beyond that, what network may have been involved with facilitating and orchestrating a sophisticated attack. it's unlikely this could have been perpetrated by these seven or eight men alone and building those suicide vests, obtaining those weapons and all of the various logistics that would have gone into orchestrating an take of this nature. >> thank you. let's turn to michael here with me in new york. he's now the executive chairman of the chertoff group. everyone was asking the questions i was raising in my take which is maybe several people met in a few cafes or somebody's apartment. they probably did plan out the fact there would be the three attacks at the same time. they used ak-47s or some
grenades. what could the french police have done? how could one prevent something like this? >> i don't think we have the full story yet. one of these individual, according to reporting, was on the radar screen in terms of someone who is known to the police as being a radical jih jihadi. the problem is you have more of these people out there than law enforcement. >> they had he was a radical but he hasn't committed any violent acts. what do you do? >> it's very difficult. i'm low to criticize them. one thing you can do is use intelligence to gather as much information as you can about people traveling or communicating particularly outside of the country back to the middle east. the metadata program that we have in the u.s. that allows us to collect telephone number the calls another telephone number or ip address connects with another ip address.
it's often a critical tool in identifying people. >> the french don't have this? >> i don't know fp thif they ha or not. it's not a perfect solution. >> if they were using cell phones talking to one another, does it raise issues about companies, technology company vs encrypted data so communications are hard for the government to penetrate. is that wall going to be broken now? >> we're not to create back doors because that compromises cyber security. at the end of the day what's most important is establishing the kwconnection or set of connections that allows you to focus in. you have to do that to know what communications you need to look at. once you have the connections there's a variety of techniques you can use without undercutting
enkripgs. >> do you think there's something that other countries, the united states should be doing that it isn't. should every place have metal detectors now? >> no. as you said earlier, we don't want to go so far near the direction we make life unlivable. we have to make sure we are tuning up and coordinating our intelligence capabilities. europeans have been critical in the last few months after snowden about the fact we collect in europe. now we see why we want to collect in europe. there are threats inside europe that affect not only our allies but americans who might be in the region. i think we also need to look at taking a much tougher line with respect to what's going on in syria and iraq. i think the conditions that have led to this really have the gestation in years of our not having a proper strategy and dealing with isis where the sources, which is in the middle east. >> do you think isis is very
different from al qaeda? what i'm struck by is the united states has effectively crippled al qaeda. isis strikes me as different. it has local support in iraq. i thi >> i think there are a couple of things that are different. this generation is focused on large and small scale attacks, including what we just saw in paris and what we saw with charlie "charlie hebdo." they are trying hard to recruit in the west in a much more sophisticated way and they're doing that by appealing through some of their social media to people in the west who are disaffected or looking for something to affiliate come to
us we'll give you money, economic and defense. i'm told that actually there are sunnis leaving the shiaa controlled parts of iraq and going back to the areas controlled by isis because of the fact they feel they are safer there. >> until you can find an alternative you get rid of isis, they'll come back. >> i think that's right. there's a population caught between assad and the shiaa on the one hand and isis on the other. if we don't give them a safe haven they'll wind up gravita gravitating to the extremists. >> pleasure to have you on. one programming note, on tuesday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern you can catch my special report on
isis. it's called blind sided. how isis shook the world. don't miss it. next, we'll take you back to paris and talk about the whys of it all. why paris? why france again? ok, we're here. here's dad. mom. the twins. aunt alice... you didn't tell me aunt alice was coming. of course. don't forget grandpa. can the test drive be over now? maybe just head back to the dealership? don't you want to meet my family? yep, totally. it's practically yours, but we still need your signature. the sign then drive event. zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first months payment on a new jetta and other select volkswagen models.
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what is your explanation to why france? why now? is this some sort of retaliation? >> of course it's retaliation that capacitates networks. imagine, seven suicide bombers. seven suicide belts. imagine what needs to be done in terms of pre-planning, choosing the targets, casing, explosives, explosive skills. three coordinated teams where the president of the republic was. in france and that's the reality you have isis and the various al qaeda groups have networks. networks of local supporters localized french young man who believe in this. >> senator, what have you heard
about what happened here, how much planning, how much coordination it took. >> it took, obviously, a huge coordinating effort. it's been extremely sophisticated. for months we have been saying that we cannot only talk about lone wolves as we thought was the case. it was the case previously to some extent with the "charlie hebdo" attack. now it's really war. it's people who are extremely determined, who are ready to blow themselves up and most important, and most worrying is the fact they have got means, financial mean, they are very sophisticated and extremely dangerous. this is something we have seen happening for seven months. since 2010, we knew that france would be one of the first
targets. we have to face that fact. the huge octopus with several tentacles but one is obviously france. france is the only state, not the only state at risk. it's a whole organization. it's a whole western world who is suffering and will suffer. we can't keep on hoping for some solution. it's been extending a lot for as long as we've been waiting in the wings looking at it and observing it. now we need to move. >> is this a change of strategy for isis because for many years it seemed as though isis was
really trying to build its cal fate in iraq and syria. people come and migrate to syria. it even said more important than attacking crusaders. now we see the russian jet. we see this. have they cast their gazeut ward now? >> i don't think so. >> yes. >> the strategic goal of isis was and remains the near enemy. the sectarian have a ideology. they've been able to build capacity because it's blended with sunni community. you asked earlier about the difference between al qaeda and isis. at the heart of its power al qaeda never numbered more than
2,000, 3,000 fighters. isis has between 30,000. it has capacity. the priority remains the near enemy in iraq and syria to build to consolidate that it's lashing now outside against the far enemy. the russian, the lebanese, iran and now paris might take on it because it wants to reenforce its narrative. it's losing ground in iraq and syria. it wants the attacks in paris and against the russian jet allegedly by isis is to convince its followers, convince its base. it's winning. it's exacting revenge against the western powers and russia itself but the reality is we should not be blinded by these attacks, bloodied and catastrophic. the focus remains and consolidating the islamic state.
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as we hear from paris this morning, we're now seeing europe's nightmare scenario made real. isis using the refugee crisis to infiltrate foot soldiers into the west. does this mean europe should lock down its borders. joining me now is david from. he's a speech writer for president george w. bush. he's now senior editor for the atlant atlantic. david, what is the right response here because it's a strange situation. the vast majority of these refugees from what we can tell, 99.99% are fleeing isis but there seems to be one isis foot soldier in that mix. >> what we're seeing is a mass
migration and not just from syr syria but across north africa. only a third of people that have attempted europe has been from syria. those people are fleeing violence. the problem is not so much the migration but the complete collapse of any kind of orderly process in europe. any kind of attempt of controlling orders. there's a humanitarian element. you want to resettle people. it's impossible to resettle them all in europe. more important and more frightening to me even than the risk of individual terrorist is this problem. isis most important strategic asset is second generation young men in europe. first start by not making that challenge bigger and go to work on integrating them with policies to create work and tolessen dependency on government benefits. >> what do do you? these people are fleeing from
where ever and however. do you just stop them the way the hungary did. do you have some policy of resettling them somewhere else. >> the vast majority will stay in turkey and lebanon no matter what any way. the focus should be making them more attractive and more humane in work. bringing in electricity, flowing water and making sure there are things for people to do. it's an illusion to begin with that you're going to be able to resettle much of this population outside the region in europe. to do it to allow the migrants to select themselves which is what is happening here, that is the most dangerous course and not just both because the risk of terrorism and the risk of how do you assimilate people. you have a great challenge. many of these, probably the majority of the killers will
turn tout be people who are born in europe. there are thousands, as you know, migrating to the region to take up violence from australia, canada, the united states, from britain and elsewhere in europe. that's the strategic question and how do you integrate them. >> ben carson says we should close down the borders to all migrants or refugees from the middle east entirely. what do you think this will do to the american political debate? >> i don't think it's going to do much to the american debate partly because that's an overdramatic response. the correct alternative to the complete collapse of a process we've seen in europe is not zero. there's some refugee who is will be resettled. there's people who will do well in new countries. you need a rational process to bring it. the united states has the better record than the europeans do of assimilating people. that's not the answer. some republicans will say things
that are overdramatic, but the real fault line in the republican party will become those who advocate a bigger entry into the syrian civil war and those cautious. yet there will be advocacy for expanded military role in the absence of those goals. that's going to be the fault line in the american debate or the republican debate. >> people are wondering does this help trump. does this help jeb bush? how do you see it? >> it doesn't make trump go -- the republican challenge has been to find someone who can make to the legitimate concerns of the trump voters in a responsible way who isn't donald trump. that question is only going to become more intense and as jeb bush and marco rubio and others line up for an expanded ground
presence in syria, if they do, that question of how do you come up with a responsible foreign policy and national security policy and take the migration issue away from donald trump, that is going to become an ever more urgent and difficult question. >> in europe the rise of these nationalists right wing politicians means that centrists will be even more embattled? we lost david. we are going to get back to you. coming up, it's an all too familiar pattern. a well planned attack on the west followed by a swift and violence response that stokes the fires of jihad. will the west make these mistakes again? that's next on gps. with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid,
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greatest danger of terrorism comes from second generation e migrants. sometimes with europeans and american who is have been radicalized. how to counter this? how to reverse it? now as the founder of the counter extremism group works to promote tolerance among muslim youth. when you hear about these people in paris, and let us assume that some of them, we don't know how many, are locals. paint us a picture of the kind of person who would do this. it's still so unthinkable not just being willing to kill but being willing to die. >> yes, thank you. i want to begin by saying i deal with there every single day of my life. this struggle, this cause is consumed me since founding
qualium eight years ago. pretenting there's no problem with europe's muslims and the sensationalism of the far right, the most important thing as you've stated is for us to remain level headed. the vast majority of those joined isis are western raised citizens. there's genuine discussions around refugees. we need conversations about the challenges that refugees pose. germany has taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees. france has hardly taken in any. i bet you that many of these attackers were french born and raised citizens. let's remain level headed and avoid being blinded by our left or popping a blood vessel in our right eye because both of those conclusions would render us blind. >> let's assume you're right. tell us about these french. you've interviewed hundreds of these kinds of people. why are they willing to commit suicide for a cause they've
often barely understand as far as i can tell? >> i would argue that jihadist extremism we're in the midst of a full blown jihadi insurgency. it's angry youth. many even convert to islam to join them. a few factors come into play. one of them is a sense of grievance and anger and another is an identity crisis. in the case of france we all hear about the suburbs on the edges of paris and how difficult it's been for the french to fix this. same applies to britain and across much of the europe. finding a place for them in european society is a huge challenge. the final factor is the role
that the plays. >> when you got radicalized yourself, what was the principle motive for you? >> the principal motive i joined a group at the age of 16. it's the first group responsible for popularizing this notion of resurrecting a calafate. it made me feel completely disconnected from mainstream society. the reaction in dealing with that genocide was incredibly slow. the second was racism i faced. those two were as perceived by me as a 16-year-old. of course, they don't justify
joining a thee cattic organization. we need to will robust in dealing with. we have to recognize, we cannot shoot our way out of this problem. we have to render the appeal of this islamist ideology. >> do you find you can reverse it? what works best in deprogramming him. the most inefficient way to go about this is to try to pull people out. it's incredibly difficult. i'm not -- my pattern isn't normal. most of those whom i served with are either at the same level of
their convictions or more committed. it's to prevent the next generation of youth from succombing and that would mean working to build resilience and crucially it's not just a muslim problem. it's not just a non-muslim problem. i give the analogy of racism. you don't have to be african-american to challenge racism. anyone who cares about this issue, it's all of our problem. all of us get affected by it. we all have to show solidarity including muslims. show the solidarity we expect when it comes to others. we show in this instance and we all have to stand together. the worst thing we can do right now is think and act like isis by dividing people along religious lines. >> do you think the tides is turning? where are we many this struggle? >> unfortunately, this is the new normal. we're going to have many more such attacks. i think this is the new normal. we're not turning the tides at the moment by what we are turning the tide on particular
is an understanding to get into grips with this. david cameron has been speaking openly for once and finally about the threat that they pose. i would encourage other world leaders to recognize this problem as an ideas problem in civil society. less son than a physical military problem. the first and primary solution is going to be winning back the hearts and minds of those disenfranchised youth across the west and making sure they don't conform to this extremism in the first place. >> we only have 45 seconds left. it does strike me it's all well and good for david cameron to do this, it would be better for the ruler of saudi arabia to do this. in a genuine way take on the violence and the extreme of the ideas and ideology, that would make some difference. >> i agree with you 100%.
look how low the bar has sunk. what is needed for those who have real leadership among muslim majority societies. those who should be showing their leadership to debunk it and render it as unattractive. >> always a pleasure to talk to you. >> thank you. >> you're looking at live picture offense a memorial here in paris. next, i spoke to the american secretary of the state john kerry this week about america's anti-isis strategy. you will want to hear what it is and his response when we come back. the pursuit of healthier.
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on thursday, i traveled to the state department for an interview with the secretary of state, john kerry. during that conversation kerry talked about something that is even more relevant today in the wake of the attacks in paris, the obama administration's policy against isis. listen carefully to what he told me. >> i mean there is a concerted strategy here. i keep hearing people say what's the strategy? the strategy is clear. president obama at the very beginning said we're going to degrade and defeat isil. we're going to stabilize the countries in the region and we're going to seek a political settlement. that's the strategy today and it's working, to a degree, not as fast as we would like bewe're making gains. we have liberated major communities. about 75% of the border between northern syria and turkey has
been secured. you have another piece where we are engaging in an operation with the turks to secure the final piece. there's pressure being put on. the territory has been shrunk by some 17,000 square kilometers. there's a difference in the way they have to operate as a result of our operations. when you combine what's happening in iraq with what's happening in syria there's an enormous amount of pressure that's continuely being ramped up with respect to isil. ultimately, we want more forces on the ground, not ours. they'll have to be people on the ground. >> isn't that the key, which is in syria you can defeat isil but then somebody has to govern that real estate. >> correct. >> what has tended to happen we
don't have local partners other than the kurds. you leave or the forces leave and isil will come back or asad comes back. there aren't many of them. >> we understand that. on the other hand if you can move rapidly towards a political settlement over the next six months towards an election, et cetera. if you could have a cease-fire, these are all ifs. i understand that. you have to have several strategies, and we do. one is the military pressure against isil. the military pressure that's taken place in the moderate opposition against assad and the political tract where we're trying to get the parties united and then two weeks ago in vienna we have major step forward where everybody, including iran and russia signed onto a unified
secular syria to maintaining the structures of the government to all opposing isil and to protecting minorities coming up with their process that leads to an election and now we're working in doing that. iran and russia and all the rest of our partners, saudi arabia, turkey are committed to driving this political process that will have a transitional council that will begin to take over management of certain activities in syria yet to be define and determined in the negotiation and that will lead to a sort of tra tran si process. next, i'll it will you about a moment of great grace in the midst of terrible evil. ♪
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it took the rockettes years to master the kick line. but only a few moves to master paying bills on chase.com technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. paris is a city struck by terror and overwhelming grief. the city of lights is resilient and it's already finding its way out of the dark. yesterday outside the concert hall where the deadliest of the attacks took place a man began to play john lennon's imagine on the piano as people grieved in the shadow of the carnage that had taken place. music and the human spirit were
beginning to take back the city. ♪ this week perisians have asked in horror, why us again. why paris? why france? there's many answers but one i want to remind us all of is that france is, in fact, a symbol of liberty and freedom. it's revolution, its ideals, thinkers have been at the forefront of the struggle for the universal rights of men and women for centuries. paris has been a kos moe politan city drawing people from across the globe who see its beauty and affirm its values. paris has been a place where art and music and culture have flourished freely. a magnet for the world's greatest talents to come and live and create and inspire. that song reminds us that in our darkest moments of despair,
sometimes it's only art that can fill the void and make us whole again. thanks for watching our show this week. i'll see you next week. don't forget on tuesday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern, you can watch my special report blind sided, how isis shook the world right here on cnn. good morning to our viewers watching in the united states and the watching around the world as well. i'm anderson cooper. thank you for joining us. we're live coming no you from paris where all day long people have been gathering. thousands of people have been coming. some silently standing. some wanting to be here and bay their respects. others