tv Early Start With John Berman and Christine Romans CNN November 18, 2015 1:00am-2:01am PST
there's the imperative to catch these people, who may threaten for french citizens. that is no doubt something ongoing. yes, we were told, he may be meeting with his top prime minister interior minister, et cetera. he said, you know, syria is the biggest terrorist factory in the world right now. he will be going with more intelligence sharing with the americans, to russia, to get them to not have two separate strategies. even president obama today in the philippines says russia still needs to be on board. get with the program. we have one strategy against isis in syria. >> christiane amanpour. john berman, i'm ha la gorani. we continue to follow this dramatic developing story in paris. police have killed.
>> all right. you can hear what went on. we do understand that disstill ongoing, although, perhaps, winding down, based on our sources on the ground. the paris prosecutor says at this point, three people, three suspected terrorists have been killed. at least five people under arrest, including three who were taken into custody. one of those killed, a woman who blew herself up early in the operation. >> as so many of the journalists and experts we have been speaking two who eno this area very well have been saying almost every aspect of this story, france never had a suicide bomber. we have no idea, i don't know
how long intelligence services kwekt connected to friday's terrorist attacks on the loose. >> one of the keys here the target of this operation, this morning, abdelhamid abaaoud, who is believed to be the mastermind behind the attacks here on friday. not to mention other attacks. a 26 yield, 27-year-old belgium man, close to ab bu backer al baghdadi. they thought he might be in sontene this morning. we do not know if he is among the killed, arrested, we do know he was the target of this raid. >> it's a very fluid situation. part of our team is covering this developing story in contene. what itself the situation right now? >> well, it does seem to be winding down. police visibly more relaxed. although, there is still quite a few police in riot gear that
have weapons stationed around the area there. that's where we saw units moving earlier in the early hours of the morning. information at one point having their guns pointed up towards the upper floors of the apartment there. so a very tense and dramatic situation. it started around 4:30 in the morning with that gun fire. residents saying they are woken up by the sound of what seemed like automatic gunfire and an explosion. one woman we spoke to, one man we spoke to said he was about to leave for work just before 5:00 a.m. when police told him to evacuate. he rushed in, grabbed his 3-year-old daughter and brought them outside. other residents were told to stay inside away from the windows. it was absolutely terrifying for wes e residents here. later on, we heard that series
of explosions. it is a frightening and surreal experience for those residents here in sontene. >> these operations have been going on for five hours now. thank you for your reporting. we should know president obama by our senior white house correspondent, president obama traveling to the philippines and ultimately malaysia, he has been informed of this operation. he has been read into what is going on. it is that big and perhaps that significant of a operation. do you know anything about the people who were taken into custody on the streets? we know that three people were arrested. three people killed. who were also killed, several or at least a few were arrested on the streets. any information who they might be or how they might be connected? >> in addition to the six people in the actual apartment, they were looking at who org united
for them to stay there. according to our affiliate, it was the landlord of the apartment, who was in that area in that vicinity, he was taken in, arrested. another woman was taken in with him. so this is all a part of the investigation to try and figure out not just what the suspects were doing there, the network around them. what allowed there emto carry out these attacks. incredibly, sontene is where the attacks occurred. three suicide bombers blew themselves up. to think the perpetrators, especially in the neighborhood the whole time and in the after math of this, the attacks, is astonishing. >> stand by, we will get by for the latest. sontene is one of the closest suburbs if paris. >> just on the outskirts irks
it's as close a melting pot you can get in this city. it's ethically diverse. enjoy a serious renewal, five-to-ten years, large companies set up the hqs there, the soccer stadium when one part of the attack was carried out on friday. it has been built in the final in '98. >> there will be lots of games there so it's an interesting part of paris, against diverse, working class and it's quite shocking, really, what's happening today here. >> i have to ask you about the, i mean we all woke up to this surprising news. we thought one intellect is on the loose, it turns out, programs, up to six. >> yes. >> we don't know, perhaps even the mastermind is among those,
either killed or arrested. how were so many clues missed? >> i don't know, it's really puzzling. you are absolutely right. we have the feeling one suspect was on the loose. we heard two yesterday. when i left the office around 10:00 p.m. last night, we sort of got a sense that something was going to happen fairly shortly. we kind of got ready for something to happen throughout the night. because we knew something was going on. it was made the clear they were pretty healthy pursuits there. there were some serious leads. >> it can be as many as six. three suspected terrorists dead. as many as three or five now taken into custody. that's a lot of people. >> that's absolutely right. usually, when isis claims attacks, they get very precise information. and they talked about a terrorist and there might be around 15 so far.
>> the question is, was it a support network, was it not the front with line of quote/unquote terrorist combatants terrorizing the attacks? were they referring only to the men who were going to kim or expose themselves, rather than the underlying, because this needed to be planned very carefully. suicide vests are not easy to put together t. material is volatile. you need pre-planning. you need to rent apartment, you need to rent cars, finance trips across borders. so could this have been some sort of support network here? >> it has to be one of the things they're looking into right now. again, the news this morning as we look at it there. they are setting up a staging operation inside that neighborhood in sontene. enormous military presence, military, medical personnel as well. three suspected terrorists killed. three taken into custody from inside the building during this
raid. two people, perhaps, arrested on the streets outside and the target. the target we are told from intelligence officials in belgium and france. the target of this operation, abdelhamid abaaoud believed to be the mastermind behind these attacks in paris on friday and president francois hollande said this was an operation conceived in syria, organized in belgium, carried out if france this is france. this raid is going on in france. you have, perhaps terrorist leaders operating right next to the stadium where they carried out these attacks. >> if that was the case, he was in france all along, it will be a major surprised and a major security failure. obviously, everybody up until a few hours ago, seemed at least to us to be convinced that he was still in syria and that's was where he was organizing and
masterminding the whole operation and to find out this morning that maybe it turns out he was here amongst us all along is a major surprise. >> maybe. we don't know if he's one of the three killed one in custody or he was there. the mear fact that they suspect he might bean extraordinary development. >> just what i want to point out very quickly. what is very striking, as intensely frustrating as that, when you were talking to french politicians and senior security sources, all these weeks ago, they were telling you that they were almost svp certain a new attack would be carried out. when they would described to you the scenario, the nightmare scenario of what could happen, it was so close to what we have been seeing. >> interesting. let's bring our viewers, thank you. it's always great getting your analysis and perspective. we were seeing tense, being fed up. >> that also could be forensic analysis. >> that happens often, where they have to kind of set up a
little mobile area, where they can analyze, because if, indeed, there was forensic material that can be looked at a little bit outside that apartment as well as inside the apartment, where we understand a female suicide bomber killed herself. >> that could also be one of the possibilities here. >> it means they're staying a while. they're bringing more people in as opposed to if you were removing folks right now. although it doesn't seem to be the ongoing shooting operation that it was several hours ago. a lot of gunshots, about five hours ago, several explosions about three hours ago in the last hour or so, this is what we have seen right now, law enforcement, various authorities moving about, staging in and around this area, where three suspected terrorists are killed, including one woman early on in this operation, hala, blew herself up.
>> it is still ongoing, perhaps a very active sort of raid portion of this operation has wrapped up. although, it is not over. police officer, official, swat teams all still there ambulances, fire trucks. it is a full operation sort of set up that you would see in a tense and dramatic situation. >> fred, give us a sense of what you are seeing right now. >> reporter: yeah, i'm actually at the exact opposite end. there is a bunch of police motorcycles that went in the through the barricade here and i can certainly confirm this operation doesn't appear to be winding down. it appears to be bringing in reenforcements. i think the road right now is one of the main ones they are using to bring additional people
and also additional vehicles there to the scene. we seen several police van. police in riot gear, police in bulletproof vests come through the streets. the area is cordoned off in a wide location here. there is a lot of people going through here. they don't want people on the ground. it certainly doesn't seem to be the case, this at this point is a waiting game. it certainly is for the long run. we keep seeing more and more officers coming in. some are coming out. it might be a sort of shift change or something like that. but certainly, a very interesting twist of events. one of the things that i think they get away with, that we have seen so far, that have been apprehended by police. one close to here yesterday. the black renault and the plaque sayenne. they were all still in the paris
area and it was unclear whether or not the attackers have left the area. so it certainly is something that is an interesting point if, indeed, it turns out that some of them might have been hiding here in consontene. >> reporter: we were getting raids where you were yesterday because that was an area where some of the attackers were believed to have rented some kind of space for the previous week. >> well, they certainly were raised in the vicinity of here. there was some in sontene, generally in the northeast of paris where i was a couple days ago as well. there were raids going on there. it appears to have been some sort of activity here. the other thing about all this is this would be if, indeed, some attackers would be here. this would be the third apartment or hotel that they
would have wanted to see and as part of the state house/safe area. there was one found also in the northeast of paris found by the police and then raided. one of the attackers came from there. there was another one sort of the west from here. now, there would be this one. it does appear there was a logistical web at work here, which would have required a considerable amount of planning. of course, we are still waiting to get the results of what the apartment was inside, whether or not this was a sport, some of the attackers or the plotters, themselves, inside that apartment. of course, judging by the size of the operation that's going on here, judging by the violence that we've seen in the early morning hours here today it does appear as though the police must have struck something, gone into something that appears to be much bigger of a nest than anyone might have thought prior to all of this. it is still unclear what sort of role these apartments in sontene
played. how often they actually knew about the operation. those were all things that we're still waiting to find out. as you are seeing, them budget up that tarp out there, certainly it does indicate they are in it for a long run. they might want to block the view of the press, anyone inside that apartment. so make sure they have absolutely nothing to inhibit the operation that is still going on. it certainly is very much going on. you can see another motorcade of a police motorcycle coming through here right now. this is something that's been ongoing. the police on the move, pli bringing forces in and out of that immediate vicinity where all of there has been going on for almost five hours now. a very, very long standoff, we have been seeing here. john. >> all right. obviously, there is stomachtist still going on, thank you very much. >> analyst paul cruickshank is
with us for more. i am reading reports that one of the concerns of authorities right now that apartment may be booby trapped. a female suicide bomber killed herself there. they have to be very, very careful going in. >> isis has a track record of ied booby traps in place. it would appear they have been for some time, hala, one woman blew herself up at the beginning of the raid, we understand so they'll be very careful. there will be a treasure trophy of information. this is urgent information. because these paris attacks may not be over. i think all the indications are, given the weapons they have. given that one of them blew themselves up. is this was perhaps a second attack scene primed to launch an
attack in the coming days or the coming hours. i think there will be huge concern about that. >> that it was even more than ambitious than we understood. so there could be others, you know, even a third attack team out there, there could be other. a part of the potential plans so ifts really a stunning development. so there will be eight more people, guy, ache, three which have been killed. five of which have been taken into custody. that's the same number as that first attack. >> two things, first of all, number one, tell us, what your sources have been telling you. abdelhamid abaaoud. are your sources raising this as a concern? >> well, here's what we know. a senior belgium
counter-terrorism official cold me just a little while ago that information came into 47 and belgium investigators. they're developing this information and that's suggested that there were some priority targets at this residence in sontene, including possibly and i must stret stress possibly, abdelhamid abaaoud, a hypothesis. when the french police went in, they did not know for sure he was there. >> that is the extent of the information, cnn has confirmed through one of the top investigators in belgium. this has been a sleepless night for counterterrorism officials in belgium, in france, major developments here. the concern is that there could be more ways that will come down the pipeline. it's not a case of specific intelligence pointing to that.
look, you had this one group of eight people who launched a terrible deadly attack. now you are seeing another group of people who have been arrested or killed where it would appear explosives maybe heavy weapons as well. look. what are they doing in paris if they're not here for tourism and, you know, if they didn't join in with that first wave, certainly, the sort of one of the plausible conclusions, john, this is a second wave that is being run. i struggle to find any other explanation. >> if it could be a support network. sort of a support underlying structure for the friday attacks. i mean, isis did say eight attackers, we know seven were killed. we know there is one presumed to be on the loose now. was this another team or the first one on friday? >> look, the police go in, from everything we are hearing so far heavy weapons, explosives.
there is a reason they have these. it's not to force people. it's very likely they are inclined, they want, isis wants them to kim as many people as possible. i think that it sort of, it begs the believe belief they would be the support network. >> you have to be prepared, certainly, no matter what, you certainly have to go if presumingly they would attack again. finally, i want to reset here in a moment. palm, if there were five suspected terrorists in custody. they killed three suspected terrorists. they made three arrests. perhaps two more on the street. you say a treasure trophy of computers were there. that's a lot of intelligence. >> they will be interrogateing them around the clock trying to find out what more is planned. because there really could be more in the pipeline. i think all the intelligence points to isis pulling a string of attacks against france, a
string of attacks against europe. they suspect the mastermind abdelhamid abaaoud being connected to a whole series of plots against france and belgium and you go about that in general. we have been talking about it from her cell phone in greece in that attempt and a profile source. a plot by an algerian student here in paris, who meets with french isis fighters in turkey. they direct them to come back. he goes, abaaoud is also suspected to have a link in that plot. then the train attack by those three american heroes. >> that could have been awful. those three americans. of course, absolutely, hala, in may of 2014 this french isis fighter who went and shot up a museum, killed four people, and that the working french authorities. he was an isis-inspired, let's
put it this way. he was an isis fateer that had come back and launched this on his own scene. for the fact now that we understand and are able to report that abdelhamid abaaoud was if contact with him, knew him, so just that may also have been an isis directed plot to some degree. so there appears to be a full frontal isis campaign to launch attack there is this country with several attacking potentially at least two we know about. i think the coming days are going to be extraordinarily worrying for everybody here in paris. >> all right. thanks very much. we want to remind our viewers of the importance and significant breaking news that we are covering on cnn. there is no shell shock in paris. take a look at some of the images that came into us overnight.
gunshots, explosions, ring out in sontene north of paris. police swat teams terrorizing people. three suspected terrorists are dead, including a woman who blew herself up earlier in the race. >> now, five other people are under arrest. three from inside this apartment. two outside the apartment. police are believed to be targeting abdelhamid abaaoud now. this is his name is fast becoming a sort of household name. this is the man that now authorities were saying he was behind, he masterminded these terrible friday attacks. it is believed, but, john, if, indeed, he was anywhere in the apartment or anywhere near the apartment, this man, abdelhamid abaaoud who many believe, most people believe, was in syria this whole time. if, in fact, he was in france orchestrating attacks on football stadiums and concert
halls, just a few kilometers, a few miles away from where a massacre took place when really we were all led to believe he was in the middle east, it would be extremely significant and a big intelligence failure. >> that remains to be confirmed. >> we do not know if he was among the dead, in custody. what we do know one of the reasons they launched this raid, he might be there. >> that in and of itself is extraordinary. >> cnn international correspondent is part of our team where police forces launched their raid. what is the latest? >> reporter: a number of police with masks on with arm barngsdz they were looking around the crowd moving down the street. they seem to be looking for something in particular. a number of male officers and a female officer moving down there
again we couldn't see any of them. they have masks on. very unusual they were moving in the crowd and moved down the street. you see one of them here still operating. showing a photo to. oh, an explosion has just gone off. this is still an ongoing operation. that was quite a large explosion in that direction. a second one now. just hold on. no gunfire, a third explosion. fourth. that was much larger, police asking them to evac. there are a number of military soldiers moved into the front as well. again john and i, this is very much an ongoing police operation at this point. we know that a number of suspects have been cornered.
we don't know the exact number of who they have. that's another explosion that's just gone off and another. there seems to be a series of them. we don't know if these are controlled detonations or not. it's gone quiet for now. very unusual scenes here. we saw to recap a number of those explosions. we heard, we saw, a number of the police have now, military have been deployed on the streets as well in addition to the heavily armed police out here. we saw investigative police with masks on. while the crowd is coming into the crowd of journalists, seeming to look for somebody and moving down the street, showing a photo of some sort on their phones to the other police stations here, clearly looking for something. again, a very fluid situation. it does appear those explosions have gone quiet for now.
but we will keep on top of the situation for you. >> all right. yeah, that was from several hours ago. she was describing the scene early in the morning hours with gunshots and she was there, explosions that were taking place about two or three hours ago. >> that was height of the drama overnight. it was an active raid situation, swat officers, police officers, military troops deployed in a suburb of paris. unbelievable sites there. even though the situation is ongoing, three confirm dead. five under arrest, several police officers injured by the way. >> five injuries. >> is what we are told, possibly more. i'm seeing other reports, slightly injured, gad news there it appears as though the active raid part of the operation is winding down. abdelhamid abaaoud is the presumed target. >> that is not confirmed. >> three at this point. they are saying three suspected
terrorists dead. three who were taken into custody from inside the building that was raided. a couple of other people taken into custody from the streets so as many as eight in the shadow which was the soccer stadium attacked on friday it has been a target of the man believed to be the mastermind behind the paris attacks and other attacks previously this year, not known if he was there. we don't know if he was killed, arrested or there, we do know he was the target. >> let's rerun back do friday. one possibly on the loose, related to one of the bombers. i am talking about a man salah abdeslam. his family lives in an impoverished suburb of brussels with links to some of these
extremist networks. the mayor of molenbeek told cnn a bar to ibrahim the brother, was shut down for drug-related offenses eight days before the attack. we are talking three brothers here. he has since been released. he actually fears his brother could kill still. he is called on his brother to surrender. >> later today they will hold the demonstrations in molenbeek. ivan watson is live in brussels with the very latest. before we get to that, is there chatter going on where you are there about the potential, the possibility that the mastermind, a belgian-born man may have been targeted in these raids in
contene? >> reporter: i spoke with the belgium federal prosecutor here and asked him that could have an impact on hundreds of bellups that have gone to syria to join the ranks of isis. he is known here for having recruited his 13-year-old brother to join in the ranks. he has been linked as we heard from paul kruk shank the security analyst to a number of different violent actions planned both here in belgium and in neighboring countries. as far as the brothers go, i'm standing about 100 feet from the house of the abdeslam family the
released brother, mohammed, did speak to journalists after his release and spoke to our own aaron burnett and made a public appeal for his fugitive brother salah to please turn himself in. mentioned, of course, worryingly, he is worried his brother could commit more violence acts in the future. that is a fear that has been echoed by belgium authorities as well. they say as long as salah abdeslam is at large, they fear for the worst. and they're taking the potential threat very, very seriously. for example, earlier this week, a friendly football match between belgium and spain being cancelled and then across the border in germany, i mean, the security fears, in the entire stadium has beat out. though no explosives were found there. that gives you a sense not just in france but in neighboring countries how seriously the authorities are taking the threat levels right now. john and hala.
>> it's interesting, ivan, as we see these raids in sontene, a reminder there have been raids in belgium where you are in molenbeek in and around brussels. any ongoing operations now in the search for salah abdeslam? r. that's right. there is another important detame t. bellups have arrested since the attacks, two suspects and charged them with terrorist activities. we haven't gotten further details about those two individuals. we are still waiting to find out. but there are more reasons. i mean, the belgium authorities say that at least three of the suspects in the paris attacks have been on the radar of belgium authorities previously. the two brothers and then a third resident here in brussels, a man who was also one of the suicide bombers if paris on
friday night and he was on the radar of the belgium authorities because he is a resident of brussels who is believed to have gone to syria to go fight. what the belgium authorities did not know. he had somehow gotten back into europe and was living underground. they did not know he was back in europe until his remains were found in paris after those deadly attacks on friday. so some of these individuals again known to belgium authorities as well as the fugitive brother, salah abdeslam, he was known to the belgium authorities. he had been questioned earlier this year along with his brother ibrahim the other suicide bomber. they had been arrested, suspected of wanting to go join jihad, isis in syria. they were questioned earlier this year and then released. the fact that the brother who is a fugitive right now was stopped by french authorities after the paris attacks, questioned and
then released, that he did not set off any red flacks for being a suspected jihadi among the french authorities. >> that is one of the concerns right now. >> that some intelligence sharing was not being shared properly between the bellups and the french. one final detail that's important, when he was traveling in a vehicle headed towards belgium and questioned by the french, that vehicle was later found here in this very neighborhood. though he, himself, is still missing. john and hala. >> all right. our ivan watson in brussels. so many threads from brus els where ivan is. the hunt is on there. in sontene, north of paris, raids overnight of huge significance. >> this is really a story that's unfolded and expanded over two countries. what was it? so much connection right now through the suspects to belgium
as well and right back to sontene. our senior correspondent joins us with the latest on this dramatic overnight raid. tell us more. >> reporter: that's right. it started at 4:30 this morning. residents woke up to automatic gunfire and an explosion. it was a round first and a lull and a second round of gunfire, sustained gunfire. in fact, we spoke to one resident when all of a sudden he had to evacuate and police were telling him to come out. he rushed in to get his 3-year-old daughter and came out safely. but this was the kind of tense and surreal and dramatic situation there morning. we thern heard those explosions, one after another six or seven explosions in alling possibly controlled detonations. it now appears the operation is winding down. there are still police behind me. you can see them which ariot gear. they are armed.
they are a lot more relaxed than they were before. there were also soldiers earlier and also firemen now in the area. one of the reasons we believe we might be seeing those firemen and those specialty police is police are very concerned about any explosives left behind by these suspects. keep in minds that of the what now appears to be able to suspects, three of them were killed. one of them was a woman who detonated a vest. police are being careful of booby traps or anything else left behind if they were anticipating a raid like this, hala. >> all right. thank you. the operation still officially ongoing but winding down some. she rightly points out, there is concern right now that this apartment that was raided, it could have bobby traps or explosives there. we do know that one of the dead suspected terrorists, a woman, blew herself up early on in this operation. we don't know what type of
explosive she used. there is still obviously concern that something else could happen. three suspected terrorists dead. five under arrest right now in custody, including three taken into custody from inside the department. the target of this operation, one of the reasons they went in. they thought that abdelhamid abaaoud, the belgium mastermind believed to be behind these attacks, they thought he might be inside that apartment. >> that is a key piece of information. we are still waiting for this morning. was he there? at this point we don't know. >> let's bring in the deputy editor of a magazine. you have been in touch with authorities. >> quite likable, i spoke to one of my contacts, the head of police. he told me they got there right on time this morning. in fact, they were just about to move. and there was a team that was there. they got very lucky to be there right on time. he didn't want to elaborate what kind of operation, what they were about to carry. we can assume there were
secondary targets maybe in the neighborhood there were rumors in the past month they were going to target shopping malls. >> that could be what they intended to do. but the team was ready and the fact that the woman was wearing a suicide vest can explain you know and guys very early in the operation. >> this would be extremely significant, if, in fact, security forces and police arrived right in time to stop another attack not related to the friday attack, perhaps a brand-new operation? >> i cannot confirm. but my feeling is that, yeah, when he said we got there right on time, it was not they moved, they cleared the area, they got there you know rushing. >> our terrorism analyst paul cruickshank. the fact that there were as many as eight involved. three dead, different in custody. that were as many involved in the attack on friday.
that's a large group. that's fluff to carry out very deadly attacks here or around here, so the possibly they got them before they were about to move is interesting. >> what is interesting, the number of people, originally seven attackers. and yesterday moved to nine and now we are discovering more and more people. and there is probably more maybe others, they are now looking for a second, you know, a second wave of attacks. so that's what's making people very worried today. is this over or is this not over? >> could this be the beginning of some sort of multi-facetted operation organized by isis if fran in france. we have friday, today possibly thwarted. people have to be worried is there more coming? >> if there is more. but there is also something that i would like to, you know, to
tell is that abdelhamid abaaoud, which is supposed to be -- >> hold on, one moment, please, stands by. i want to go to fred in sontene. i understand there is activity going on right around where you are standing? >> reporter: yeah, actually we were forced to leave the position and get the elevated position. there were a lot of police vehicles that actually went down the street a couple minutes ago. there is stomachtist further down the street, way back they are moving around. it's unclear what was going on. there was a convoy of seven or eight police vehicles that came through with tear lights flashing very quickly. not exactly sure what that means. it certainly seems to show there is still despite the fact that this appears to be a waiting game at this point in time. there is movement going on from this elevated position. we can see the amount of law enforcement, medical personnel.
fire department personnel that is on the scene there. it really is amazing to see how many vehicles are there. how many people are there. we see a lot of firefighters also get ready, of course, in case there is some sort of raid in case something happens, a fire breaks out for some reason. they will be ready as well. >> that guess to show how big an operation it is, how important it is to them. again, we saw some movement. a couple minutes ago that seemed very out of the ordinary. there was commotion here. whether or not there was a change going on. there is more police officers also now gathering towards the end of the street and some emergency medical personnel moving out there as well. so fought clear at this point. we'll keep you updated on the anything major changes in that. but there was some movement just a couple minutes ago. we will wait to see what exactly that is. of course, as we have been hearing, this rage here, this siege is very much ongoing and looking around, you can see the commotion it is causing here in this town. >> we can see behind you, there is still a great deal of
activity. we are told by french federal officials. this is still an ongoing operation. we do know one of the suspected terrorists who is dead, a woman, she blew herself up at the beginning. so there is concern there could be explosives inside, still that, original apartment complex, which they reiterated earlier this morning. >> we have been talking a little while frid fred has been reporting live in sontene. your sources say there female suicide bomber, it was interesting. >> we all thought she was going to be a former girlfriend back in january. >> in the supermarket. >> she managed to make it to syria, we thought that there was you know the potential that this woman would come back there is another woman high on the list more related to a group, which is al qaeda. i asked is isis, you know, she
is very dangerous she is very high on the list. i would confirm shelves not the suicide bomber of this morning. there is also this element at the beginning of when the attacks started, there were some twists who said from isis that said support our sister. there was the rumor of a female i am being told, several people talked about it. we never heard ofitnymore. a female suicide bomber. that question being raised. as to the identity and this woman. >> this supposed mastermind, what is your source saying about that individual? >> he didn't want to make comments. my feeling. my gut feeling, is abaaoud, having seen him on video cameras. >> that he took from syria. he was you know the video lasted from, dated from 2014.
back then, he was just a lynchman in isis. he moved up the hierarchy. but abaaoud, i don't think abaaoud is probably a leader of the team. he has, his combat season. you know, he's made his way up in isis. i don't, you know, that's my gut feeling again. i'm not the expert on that. but i don't believe he's the mastermind of this operation. there has to be somebody on much more organized of with other competence these guys. >> again, the operation has been going on about five, two from outside, your sources tell you the police believe they got there just in time, perhaps because these folks were getting ready to stage some other attack in paris. palm, if you can step in here,
hearing what we have been discussing, what are your sources telling you? >> these are disturbing new pieces of information coming in. this possibility that there was some kind of imminent second wave attack, maybe about to be launchched. it really is staggering, the scale of this now the scale of this ambition this network appears to have had. you got to presume that there is a connection between these two groups of heavily armed individuals, one who carried the attack out on friday and the other that they've just done the raid on. because we understand that the information on the first investigation led to the second raids that we have just seen take place. i think there is real concern. there are still others out there. i have been stunned at every turn in this and it certainly
would not surprise me if there are yet more gunmen out there. i think they will be beyond maximum alert in paris. public spaces. they may want to carry out some kind of spectacular all the world's media are gathered here in paris. i think it's possible the plan is wait until they all gather and then launch a massive second raid. eight people, eight more terrorists. they could launch absolute carnage and that would be a one-two punch would be absolutely traumatic to this country. you know, much more than just the one attack and you know rattled 97s. isis basically have declared all out war it would appear on france. i fear also all out war on other countries as well. all the intelligence indications are they they've got sort of different language groups
english and french and dutch speakers. they're organizing their personality groups to launch an attack back in their home countries. >> it makes sense bellups an french speak dpren french. the dutch speak dutch together. if they form alliances, come back. it makes sense the bellups and french would be working together. >> the groups, fighting together in syria. they've had it from almost the beginning of the outpour of volunteers from france. we knew there was this french y brigade operating in isis. a lot of them know each other from petty crime 1234r from prison. >> having served together or having been at school together. because they all come from the same suburbs. we have this instance the family jihad with those three brothers.
you know all from molenbeek in belgium and abaaoud went to school. >> in prison, you see the connection in syria, where six of the eight of friday's attackers had spent time. so all sorts connections. >> these are the returnees. we are being hit by we fear the most. these people have been trained in syria and coming back to strike at home. >> it is an interesting development, obviously, friday all the well ponce used the explosives. to see the raid the shootout. to see this woman blow herself up. obviously, a great deal, a great number of weapons still at their disposal. paul, i mean, how do they 68th this kind of operation? how do you get the logistics, the arsenal to carry out not just thor ie series of attacks
today. >> it involves criminalality in the past. petty crime, armed burglary. people who have easy ways of getting access to weapons. some spending some time in jail it appears. and so it's really not difficult for them to get kalashnikovs because of their contacts. we saw that on the attack on the kosher markets in paris in january. then with the bombing indpreedient. the tatp, very likely, that's something they would have learned to do in syria. you can get the materials easy enough. it's so volatile. so unstable you have to know what you are doing otherwise you will blow yourself up. so the concern is some of them got trained in syria. they've come back and can build these suicide vests. even larger bombs as well, right? >> one element we add to that is the common experience they got from -- i was in syria a week
ago with the regime forces in places like northern places and some of the places we went to had been conquered be di regime force. we could see you know the level of certification that the rebels had built. these people are used, have been used for years to go to you know from one end of the building to the next by digging holes in the walls. so that wouldn't surprised me if you have somebody like this entrempb trenched in building in sontene, it can last longer. >> what areas did you go we are jet stream forces dlibed from what group? >> he was reliberated frnusra. they have been, you know, the, we had a, we -- we witnessed an
offensive by the regime going over there. but you know the type of people fighting in this consensus are really seasoned and, you know, these people have been fighting there for a long time. so if those jihadists had this experience, obviously, you know they can maneuver very easily from a peaceful town like ours. >> now perhaps to paris. the raid this morning to remind people what's going on, an ongoing operation in sontene, a neighborhood north of the city here. three suspected terrorists killed. five people arrested in custody right now including three taken in custody inside that apartment. we understand five police officers at least have been injured, hopefully only lightly injured right now a. woman, a suspected terrorists, one of the terrorists killed herself with an exploelsive early on in this operation. paul cruickshank, one of the reasons they launched this
operation is they thought abdelhamid abaaoud the ring leader perhaps the mastermind behind these attacks on friday. there was a suspicion he could have been inside that apartment. >> i was told this by a senior belgium counter-terrorism official that information, key information coming into the french and the belgium investigators suggested that the priority targets were at this address, including possibly abdelhamid abaaoud, there is a hypothesis when they went in. they didn't know for sure within they went in. so that's the extent of the information that we have at this point. but it will be extraordinary if he managed to get back to europe, given that just a month ago, the french were trying to target him in a training camp in syria. >> all right paul krcruickshank thanks, for sharing this top level source. we want to get for this hour the latest from atikashubert?
>> reporter: we seen a number of units leaving. we do still however see soldier, military officers with weapons there. also a fire team inside as well. and that may be because of concerns that some of the suspects may have left explosives behind. we do know that all of the suspects that were either killed or arrested. one of them was a him wwoman. she blew herself up with a suicide vest. it's probably why the operation isn't quite over yet. they want to make sure, absolutely sure that they've got everybody they need and they've cleared the area of anything that might be dangerous to 'public. >> you have been there some time, several hours. design what you saw overnight.
first there was a shooting and several a few hours later. >> reporter: that's right. it started at 4:30. there was a bit of a lull and a second round of sustained gunfire. in fact. we spoke to run resident. the police literally pulled him out. his phone smashing down. you see police still operating in the area. another man who said he was on his way to work. police told him to evacuate. he quickly rushed in to grab his 3-year-old daughter. that's how intense it was. when we arrived, it was immediately after the gunfire, while we were here, we were seeing a number of units in operation, including masked teams of investigative police that were here among the crowd, apparently looking for someone. just as they were doing that, we heard that series of explosions go off. what sounded like controlled detd nations. although we have fought confirmed that with police.
about six or seven explosions. it was a very fluid moment t. military was deployed for putting up a perimeter in the area. since then, it's quieted down significantly. it does seem that the operation is winding down. it's been an intense night for residents here. it's surreal to see this on their streets. >> atika has been in sontene, for the last five or six hours, there has been police, swat teams, also a military presence on the ground there targeting abdelhamid abaaoud. the man who could have been the mastermind behind these attacks on friday. >> just to be clear, we don't even know if he was there. all we know is he was the target. there is some reports he has been arrested. other reports he was killed. other reports altogether he wasn't physically present in that apartment. what we do now, according to prosecutor is one female suicide
bomber killed herself at the beginning of the raid. we know who other individuals as well were killed. one by sniper fire. another unclear five arrests, three inside the apartment. two outside the apartment. was this and we were speaking with a jourpallist here in france who es top source told him in morning this could have been an entirely new team of terrorists planning another attack. >> he told us he talked to police who said to him they got there just from time. just in time was the exact language he was given, which is notable for two reasons. was it j you in time to prevent another attack? was it just in time to keep these people from fleeing. the numbers indicate, though, something important in and of themselves. eight people, three people killed. three suspected terrorists now dead. five under arrest. seven or eight people involved on friday in the deadly attacks here that killed 129 people. so certainly eight more somethinged terrorisuspect dz *
suspected terrorists. >> we will have a lot more on the terrorist attacks and these dramatic raids happening overnight. >> our next hour of breaking news coverage begins right now. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news... >> right. i'm john berman in paris alongside hala gorani. we are at the republique something of a shrine. this morning the last five hours, extraordinary developments. an ongoing operation in the neighborhood of sontene in the northern part of this city. three suspected terrorists killed. five now arrested. we have been told that the target of this operation, the
region they launched it they believe abdelhamid abaaoud, the man believed to be the mastermind behind the paris attacks on friday that killed 129 people. they think he might have been inside that apartment building. >> let's put it into context t. raid on the apartment in sontene, which is a few miles north of where we are, began at 11:00 p.m. u.s. eastern time. that was about 4:00 a.m. here just for all of you, our viewers, to get a sense, this is what it sounded like when it happene happened. >> all right. there is what we know. after all of this, after all of this intense activity. which by the way it is still an ongoing operation. three suspected terrorists have been killed. one was a woman who blew herself up early on in this operation