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tv   Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield  CNN  November 20, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PST

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this is cnn breaking news. >> hello, everyone. i'm poppy harlow live in paris where it is just past 6:00 in the evening. we are following the latest developments into the investigation of the deadly paris attacks one week ago. >> i'm ashleigh banfield in new york city and welcome to "legal view" and we are following two
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stories today. a week to the day of the coordinated terror at a tacks in paris, another terrifying siege in mali. this is at the radisson blue hotel in bamako in the western african nation of mali. unknown number of attackers carrying are the ak-47s arrived in a vehicle with diplomatic plates on it. they stormed into the hotel this morning and firing their guns and taking roughly 170 people hostage the. we are now hearing that there are no more hostages inside of that hotel, and afp is reporting that two gunmen were killed. it is still very much an active situation. a colonel in the mali army says that there are still attackers inside of the hotel and ten people have been found dead in one of the hallways. most of the hostages from multiple countries did manage to
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escape this ordeal, and there were six american citizens among them. our robyn kriel joining us from nairobi, kenya, and robyn, can you get us up to speed on the very latest in the situation there? >> well, malian security ministers told journalists and afp in fact that the hostages had been freed and two gunmen had been killed, however, they have not said that the operation is by any means over. it is a huge hotel an about 190 room, i believe, and they are go ing the clearing room by room. we have a local journalist on the scene who says he can see the military men working through room by room to checking to make sure there are no gunmen and whether there are two or gunmen on the loose, that is what they are trying to ascertain, and as you said a number of people were freed or either escaped the terrible hostage situation, but we understand that the number of
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dead could rise. we are hearing that it could rise substantially from 10. the afp is reporting 18, but we are hearing it could go higher than that. >> robyn kriel, thank you for that. i want the latest from a special represent and head of the u.n. stabilization mission in mali li live, and sir, if you could get me up to speed to what you are hearing given the fact that you have so many of the u.n. staffers at that hotel. what do you know about their safety and about the hostage takers? >> yes, earlier in morning we sent forces to be exact to the reason to go inside of the hotel to collaborate and to work with the malian security forces. we were able to evacuate some of
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the staff. in fact, we had the private staff and evacuated all of them. we also able to evacuate a large number of the participants in the meeting of the meet iing of the agreement that has been meeting here in bamako. the significance of the attack is a that it is perpetrated by negative forces, by terrorists who not want to see peace in mali, who are trying to make all efforts to end this process. by attacking the-hotel today at
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the time we have a very important meeting, it is at lot of significance. they are expecting now not only the minister and the malian forces and the malian government, but also affecting the malian partners who have signed agreements and -- >> but can i ask you and i'm so sorry to interrupt mr. hamdi, but there are varying reports coming out regarding the situation now. some reports say it is over, and others say it is no more hostages held in the hotel, and others saying that it is not over. do you any more clarity if there are live gunmen hold up in the hotel or that is it? >> well sh, as we are speaking , and the information from our security forces, we cant not say with certainty that the operation is fully over.
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but it is almost over and unfortunately, there are a large number of victims. we are confirming that there are deaths and we are almost at the end of the operation, but we cannot say with certainty that t the operation is over now. they are still looking at the last areas of the hotel to make sure there is no more surprise. >> and now, you have up to 50 u.n. staffers at the hotel and at some point, there is a report that these killers were segregating the victims and asking them to recite a muslim pledge of sort, and releasing those who could cite it. have you been able to speak with any of the u.n. staffers who have been able to verify it or knock that story down either
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way? >> yes, i want to clarify something. the 50 u.n. staffers are not staying in the hotel, but rather security forces that we have mobilized responding to help the malian security forces rescue the clients of the hotel. with respect to what you have just mentioned, of course, they can not confirm or deny it frankly, because i have not heard about it. >> mr. mongi hamdi thank you for taking part of the interview, and helping us in this difficult time. we appreciate your insight. i want to go to terror analyst paul cruickshank in paris, and i know that you have been working the source, paul. there are those who have come forward claiming responsibility for this, and what are you hear
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heari hearing? >> that is right, ableyings, a claim of responsibility on a jihadi response portal coming from the al qaeda-aligned group in the region, and the u.s. government analysts are look into the claims at the moment, b but the the claim is that in was the responsibility of al qaeda in the islamic maghreb. and this is from a algerian who was responsible for an attack earlier in the year, and also at a hotel in march. he was targeted in an air strike in libya in june of this year, and his fate is uncertain, but his group, and al qaeda islamic
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maghreb is claiming responsibility for this, ashleigh. if it is indeed them, an attempt to compete with isis, because isis had this big propaganda victory in the recent weeks with the russian jet and also here in paris and a competition globally of the two organizations, a one upmanship, and this could well be al qaeda here in their response to the paris attacks, and maybe another response, because this is a kor wor -- worrying competition between the two groups. when you look at the attack, the idea that they were separating muslims from nonmuslims is also the al qaeda m.o. right now, and in 2013, the leader of al qaeda sent out guidelines saying that the group should not kill muslims, and do everything possible not to kill muslims, but isis has not put out that
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same guidance, so it may have been a group reacting to the guidelines put out by al qaeda, and chilling guidelines put out by a al qaeda, ashleigh. >> and also, a reporter cited in "the new york times," and we still don't know if for sure it was happening, but we will continue to watch it, and in the meantime, our erin burnett was a able to speak to someone inside of the hotel saying that the one attacker who burst in with the ak was dressed in western clothing, jeans and a plaid shirt and hat, and the person was speaking in a local language and not arabic or would this tell you that it is a local group jockeying por position or not? >> well, there is a lot of unclear report manage the early reporting, but they have recruited people in mali and the region to launch this attack. the group, and the various
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jihadi group have a presence in the northeastc8xbt of the count particular about 1,000 french forces and u.n. forces, and trying to the sort of cleanse those regions from the various jihadi groups. they were successful in 2013, but over the last year or two, these jihadi groups have grown stro stronger, and the insurgency is growing stronger, and targeting the u.n. forces, an all of the weapons that have come in from libya. the region is destabilize and the jihadi groups are flourishing and competing, ashleigh. >> our paul cruickshank live in paris. thank you for that. and coming up next, another victim of the last friday terrorist attack in paris has died and another body found in the rubble of this week's raid that ended the attack ringleader's life. we will take you live to paris
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hello, everyone. welcome back to "legal view." i'm poppy har e lolow with ashl banfield. i'm coming to you live from france. almost a week ago a terror attack that caused a death toll which is still rising and right now the total number of those murdered to 130 of those killed outside of a stadium and multiple cafes and restaurants. we know that a third body has not been identified, but it has been found in the rubble of wednesday's raids in saint denis. that is when abdelhamid abaaoud was killed with a female, his cousin, when police came looking for abaaoud. and now, the authorities have
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surveillance of abaaoud in the metro on the subway station friday night while all of the t attacks were under way. that is remarkable. those images are not made public, and french police are continuing to make the most of the emergency powers carrying out an additional 180 raids in just the last day when they took 17 more people into custody and of night, they have seized 76 more weapons. consider the numbers in the last five days, they have searched almost 800 places with 900 people taken into custody, and seized 174 weapons. with go the nic robertson who is following all of the latest on the developments. nic nic, it is astonishing to learn that the mastermind who is known to the authorities to the world was riding the metro ob the train here friday night while his counterparts were carrying
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out the horrific attacks. how can that be? >> it is a staggererring piece of information for the investigators to learn that right under their noses the ringleader was here. also, a piece of perhaps a piece of information that will show how they put all of this together in the puzzle, and the metro station that he was spotted on the cc tv was close to where one of the vehicles that was used by the attack thors was discovered so does it mean that he was in direct personal contact with them in the hours before they launched the attack giving them final instruction, and perhaps involved in distributing, you know, weapons or the explosive vests, and we just don't know, but it is something that the investigators are no doubt working on, but it is staggering in the cctv video, because he appears to be seen sort of going through the metro station there without paying for a ticket. this is a man who is kind of
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sort of trying to have a low profile, and why would he be acting in that way. this is not adding up and it is a puzzle for all of us looking at it how it could have happened and for the police, it is an important lead in the investigation as they are digging deeper, poppy. >> absolutely, nic robertson, and stay with me, because i want the to get paul cruickshank's take on the fact that you have salah abdeslam, the eighth attacker still on the run from paris to belgian and he is still on the run. it is astonishing to me that you have literally police officers and experts around the world looking for him and not even a le lead. >> not even a lead, but of course, he was sought 9:00 in the morning on the saturday after the attack, by the phrfre, and when they approached his car when he was pinged up, and then an urgent call to come pick me up, and then a lot of the road
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traffic was stopped in belgium, and they did not know that he was a suspect, and arrested the two the friend s mow len bea beak, -- mowlen beak, and it may be the most difficult for him, because most of the people he knows are in molenbeek. >> and it is the most westerners to join the jihad, and have gone from brussels, and at least 500 of them have gone the syria and iraq to join with isis. and nick ro robertson, you havet come are from the army rerecruitment center and a lot of what we are talk about all wee week, and we don't have nic any longer, but they don't have the staff, the officers to keep an
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eye on the isis sympathizers that they are talking about and nic said at the recruitment senor, the how much it is ramping up. what will we see change here in the next three months that france is going to be in the state of emergency which gives the police sweeping power s s t detain more people for preventative detention and more of the raid, and what is the new normal here? >> well, clearly hiring more people, and putting more resources into the counter terrorism, and there is going to be the sort of the telling the public that you to be careful. if you see something, say something, and take security precaution, and really changed the whole mood of europe when it comes to the security. but here is the problem, even if they triple the resource, and speaking to the counter terrori terrorism experts, they will still have to monitor tens of thousands of people who have defected from radicalism, and
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they are overstretched there and exhausted this week. >> and what about the intelligence cooperation globally and the united states has given over what they call the raw intelligence to the french which is a really big deal, but at the same time, you have morocco who is tracking down abaaouabaaoud, and so moro authorities told the french people, and so what is the vital of that? >> and it was vital to prevent a second attack. and the moroccans have not said what kind of intelligence this was and how did they know that he was in paris, but it is possible certainly some kind of intercepted communication going from the family members in morocco to family members in paris, and there is a cousin in paris who ended up to be in the
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apartment at saint denis where they were all holed up, and interception communication played a key role in them locating the groupt the saint denis safehouse. >> paul cruickshank, thank you for the expertise on mali and this ongoing situation here in paris. the worst of the carnage on the friday night one week ago here last week took place at the bataclan theater where 90 people were murdered an attackers with kalashnikov rifles opened up fire on the kconcertgoers until the an elite unit of the french police moved in. anchor of nbc news lester holt spoke with the captain of that raid. this is the remarkable account of what happened. >> we took position at the enter of the theater, and then we discovered like a hell on earth.
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maybe 7-8,000 people laying on t the floor. >> 7 to 800. >> yes. and laying on the floor, tons of blood everywhere. no sound, everybody was screaming. last door. we approach the door and s suddenly he says we don't know, and he wanted to negotiate. i said give me the phone number. and then one of the terrorists wanted to shoot about 25 to 30 rounds of ak-47 bullets. >> this is the shield? >> yes, this is again in the middle of the group, take then do down, and i fell down because of the pain and it. >> and one of the officers was hit? >> yes, in the middle of the group. first thing we saw that the guy was shooting, and lot of maybe 20 on stage between the shooter and us, and we cannot shoot at
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this time, because it was too risky for the hostage ss at the end of the hallway, we saw the two terrorists and it was like a dead end for them, and the first one blew himself up with the jacket. and the second one tried the do it, but he was shot first sfwlcht and they were both wearing suicide jackets? >> yes y. and one of them went off? >> yes. blood everywhere. >> unbelievable to hear that first-hand account, and the same french unit rescued hostages from the market here in january after the charlie hebdo rampage. first go to which is the world page and we have been gathering ways to support the city and the people in the friday's attack. quick break on the other side, and we will take you back to the hotel siege in mali, and a fluid situation. much more breaking news ahead next. type 2 diabetes doesn't care who you are.
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want to take you back to the breaking news in mali and it is an active situation there. atta attackers who stormed the radisson blue hotel in the capital of bamako this morning are still inside of that hotel. but what we have also learned is that two gunmen are dead. the mali army says that there are no hostages inside of the hotel, anymore, but ten people have been found dead in one of the hallways, and there are reports of several injured. many hostages who were fortunate enough to escape included six americans. the defense officials are telling c nshgs nshnn that all military personnel are now accounted for in mali. the attackers arriving this morning with a vehicle that had diplomatic plates on it. they fired as they entered the
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the hotel, and the gunshots went on for several minutes. the afp is reporting again that the two gunmen at least are d d dead. we are not aware of additional gunmen. our robyn kriel is in nairobi, kenya, right now, and she is joining us live, and she is joining us live, and so is our correspondent general spider marks. and now, there were upwards to 170 people locked in the hotel and little by little, they got out, and where are they? are they telling the story and what is the circumstance at the hotel now? >> well, we understand that at the moment security personnel are working their way through the radisson blue luxury hotel in the center of bamako, mali, clearing room by room. we have an eyewitness who says that the preefly a short while ago he did hear one loud explosion, and we are not sure if it was a sun grenade thrown
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by some of the rescuers going door-to-door or if indeed still attackers at large inside of the hole tell. the hotel is big, and 190 room, and plenty of places for those hostages to the hide, and as well as attackers, so it is a precise and lengthy operation going room by room to try and make sure that to a attackhe at are not still there. and we should tell you that ban ki-moon did recently condemn the attacks as well as members of the security council of the u.n. condemning the attacks. the u.n. army did rerespond alongside the malian army. they had a few staff inside and that three of the u.n. personnel were evacuated early on in the siege. ashleigh. >> thank you, robyn kriel. standby, because i want to bring on spider marks on the tactic
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has the killers used. erin burnett was able to get some intelligence on the person who was having morning coffee in the hotel lobby and all tof the sudden out of nowhere a man appeared wearing a jeannes and checkered shirt and hat and not dre dressed in commando gear or wearing any protective flack material, and does that tell you anything about this enemy as opposed to those wearing the suicide vests and others who have worn the commando gear in the past? >> yes, it does. ashleigh, the short answer is that when you have a situation like we have seen in mali where they take hostages, they are looking for some form of a concession. what you didn't see in mali was a killing field. with isis is a total disregard for the next steps in terms of the terrorist, and in terms of the damage they conduct. so this is a clearly different tactic that we are seeing in mali, and it is really going to get to the root of some challenge that is in mali, and
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part of the kind of the radical islamists in mali as we know, and probably some, a large long list of social grievances, and part of a civil war, if you w l will, but this is different from what we are seeing with isis, but it is easy to conflate the two, because france is smack dab in the middle of it. france and mali have a long his tris and frankly a good relationship right now. and president hollande now not only has the challenges in paris, but responding openly and aggressive ly with what took place in mali. >> and spider, this makes no sense to me, we heard the commando, the captain of the commando team that raided the bataclan who relayed the story to lester holt, and he said, we will negotiate, and then just launch launched into gunfire in this man's shield. and according to erin burnett's
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int interview, he just opened fire, and just like the others and this time, taking hostages, and is this a local rag tag group and speaking the local language and not arabic or islamic language, and so what do you do to compare the two? >> well, you have to have the ability to have lesser included tasks within this larger confrontation that you have. so you are entering into the engagement realizing that you have a significant threat, but then you can ratchet it down base based on the level of violence or the ability of the individual who's conducting this killing as to what his or her state of mind is. can you get into it? can you negotiate out of it? cle clearly with isis, no negotiating and you hit the nail
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on the head, can we have your cell phone number or negotiate, of course not. and so with isis, and what we have seen with mali, it does not matter what we do, how we act or what we are is just entirely repugnant to them. and so it is clear ly a situatin where it is no negotiation with isis, and entering into the relationship that means that it is all or nothing. there is nothing that we can do to alter their view of us. >> we will have anothervz conversation of how the respond on the global response, and how to make it happen there or will there is some other military action that needs to be happening. thank you, spid er mar eer gener ma marks and robyn kriel. and also, so many lives lost. and any hope amid that tragedy?
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welcome back to the continuing live coverage from paris. i'm poppy harlow and important news to get to the. in the last few minutes we have learned from the prosecutor's office that the relative ringleader of last friday's attack, she did not blow herself up, but instead, it is a man inside of the apartment set off a suicide device and that subsequently killed the woman, and that as the police were in search of abdelhamid abaaoud who was of course kill ed ed in the attack. the body of an unidentified man with them was found in the apartment hours ago. and we have learned that
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authorities have surveillance video of abaaoud in a metro train in paris on friday night while these attacks were taking place across this city. those pictures have not yet been released. it is one week since the tragic attacks in the city of light. some images of hope and inspiration have been e emerging, and they have gone viral. a young doctor who helped save countless lives on friday night in the emergency room took one of the most striking images. he spent all week trying to find him, and we sat down with him last night and asked him why he took the picture, and the message that he hoped to send. >> reporter: they say that a picture is worth 1,000 words, but this is one worth countless. have you ever seen anything like you saw on friday night? this the doctor was off duty when the shots rang out across paris. he raced to the hospital.
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>> i went to where there were injured people. >> reporter: how many people did you treat friday night? >> there were 27 person who came to the hospital, and we were not used to seeing this kind of injury here. maybe in other, in other country, but maybe in the u.s., but we cannot see this kind of thing, maybe people use guns, here not. in one case, there were so many people that injuries to the thorax and the belly -- it was a war scene. >> it was a war scene? >> yes. it was exactly that. the most difficult thing was the
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context, the to see the fear in the people's face. and most of them young people, but it was everything, everybody was here. all different religion, just everybody. >> what were you trying to say with the photograph? >> just all people came here. we came here to help people, it's our job. >> altogether. >> yes. there was a big mobilization for people. all together, yes. everything was awful. the only thing that was incredible this night was quite nice was the mobilization of everybody. >> in this tragedy there was a little bit of hope, and we were all there for us to show up that we'll always be there. >> you will never give up? >> never give up. >> never give up. our thanks to him and all of the doctors and the first responders here in paris who saved countless lives last friday night. coming up next, the fbi says there are no known ties between
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the terrorists in paris and anybody in the united states, but what about the copycat, and people who want to do what isis did in this city, and can law enforcement possibly keep their eyes on all of them? the live reports are next.
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and we have this breaking news out of the paris prosecutor's office. for quite some time now, we have thought that during the wednesday the's raid in a paris neighborhood called saint denis that a female suicide bomber blew herself up, and we are now being told that those reports are wrong. that apparently this woman did not blow herself up.
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that a male colleague who was standing close by did, and that she was killed in the explosion as well. also, remarkably just in the last few hours, we are learning that will there is a third body that was discovered in the apartment. i want to show you the significance of the explosion, and we are working to get that piece together, because abc news had obtained some cell phone video of the moment that the explosion went off, and it is really just a profound moment. i want to get that for you as soon as i can, but what an incredible development from the paris prosecutor's office, and up until now everybody thought that she set herself off, but it was not, it was a male colleague. and ha was in attempt to find the ringleader of the paris attack and his name is abdelhamid abaaoud, and he was of course kill ed ed in the rai but it is the third body, and we don't know who it is, but it is a male, and rest assured they
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are looking close loi to try to make an identification as soon as possible. but in the meantime, the fbi is closely monitoring dozens of suspected radicals here in the united states out of fear of a copycat attack like the one in paris. law enforcement officials are stressing this, there is no known relationship between the paris attackers and anybody here in the united states so far. cnn justice reporter evan perez is joining me from washington, and i find it sort of incredible how they are stepping it up, and the analysis and the investigation stepped up a notch into the people who are on a list already here, and i would have thought that it was after charley heb doeshgs aie hebdo, attacks. >> well, after the garland attack there was a couple of men who tried to attack a couple of
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cartooni cartoonists, and it woke people up that there were a couple of the isis members who can go from flash to bang in a couple of minutes. so they have taken a couple of people who are at the highest level of concern, and people who they believe could go to from flash to bang with little notice and they want the eyes on them, an increased the surveillance and more wiretapping, and making sure they know where those people are as they are trying to investigate and build the cases against them if there is any way of bringing the charges against them. altogether, there are about 900 investigations open around the country on isis sympathizers, ashleigh. >> so i wanted to ask you that, what you said from flash to bang quickly, and we reported this remarkable breaking news from
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the paris prosecutor's office that we thought that the woman who blew herself up did not. she was blown up by a male who was in prox sim the ti, but up until now, we have been talk about this young woman radicalized and self-radicalizing only about six months ago. i mean, flash to bang. this is a person who is described to living a western life, and definitelyt not islamic life, and also hearing about abraham abdeslam who own ed a bar. how do they keep track of people who are radicalizing so quickly. >> that is the problem of the law enforcement and the intelligence agency, because you know they are consuming the propaganda and some of of the people are on the web sites looking at this the stuff, and they don't know at what point in their head they go from the deciding that they are reading and supporting perhaps, and
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giving some measure of support to isis and what it is doing overseas, and then deciding they will go to kill people in this country. that is impossible to get inside of these people's heads. what they do is to try to do monitoring to see if they can figure out any changes in behavior to try to isolate that. >> i have that piece of video that i want to show it quickly, and the moment that the suicide blast went off. >> remarkable. >> shocking. again, it is not the woman, but a man standing next to her, and knowing that it takes on a different significance. let's watch. i am not sure how anybody would be interested in joining this kind of group knowing that is what your pal will do with you standing nearby as this man did to that woman. is there anything from the forensics, because they have
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been combing through the site and how much info sharing is going on live? >> well, there is a tremendous amount. for instance we know that they have shared, the french authorities have shared photographs of this suicide vest just to make sure that people here are aware of what it looks like. we are told it looks like a bulletproof vest. it is black or dark blue. it has wires. it is a way for french authorities to alert the u.s. law enforcement of what exactly this bomb that was made with the ta teshgts p, -- tatp, the explosive would look like. >> yes, and the open line of communication with the threats of new york and washington. and thank you, evan perez. thank you, everyone, for watching. my colleague wolf blitz er will start after this break. hi i'm heather cox
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-- captions by vitac -- hello, i'm wolf blitzer. it is 1:00 p.m. in washington and 6:00 p.m. in bamako, mali, and 6:00 p.m. in paris, and where wherever you are watching us, thank you for joining us. >> announcer: cnn breaking news. >> major breaking news unfolding. one week ago is the paris att k attacks, and now we are learning that one more person has died bringing the death toll to 130. and new news in the investigation, the woman thought to blow herself up in wednesday's raid did not blow herself up. our diplomatic reporter nic robertson is joi


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