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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  November 22, 2015 7:00am-8:01am PST

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this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all you have in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakcoming to you liv from new york. we'll bring you the latest from the investigation and we'll talk about the response. how can isis be defeated? how big is the threat now?
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how seriously should we take the new threats? i have a great panel to discuss all that. next, the french ambassador to the united states on the question everybody is asking, why france and islam the problem? some surprising answers from the chief rabbi of the united kingdom. in a week's time world leaders will gather in paris for a long planned meeting. planned before the attacks. secretary of state john kerry will be there and he will tell us why it's so important. here's my take. henry kissingers noted in his
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lifetime the united states fought five wars and began with great support. in all of them, americans began to ask how quickly can you with draw. in three of these conflicts the united states with drew its forces unilaterally. today we're watching the war against aye sis. let us make sure we understand what it would entail not just to start it, but also to end it. one place to learn some lessons bhiegt from strategy that has been relatively successful. as noted in 2012 a year after bin laden's death, the group's leadership has been destroyed as resources disappeared and the support among the arab public plummeted. it's not been able to launch an attack on western soil since the london bombings ten years ago. it did not always look like
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that. after 9/11, officials and experts spoke of al qaeda with the all in fear they now reserve for isis. once the united states and allies began battling the group it inspired the terror attacks across the globe. those attacks did not mean al qaeda was winning the war on terror anymore than the attacks nathat paris mean that isis is winning. it's possible that as isis loses territory on the ground, it is doing terror abroad.
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isis is different because it has territory. to keep it defeated, someone would have to rule its territories or else isis would just come back. isis draws its supports from sunnis in iraq and syria who fell persecuted by the non-sunni governments in both countries. in this sense isis is more akin to taliban than al qaeda. the taliban itself is a local group with support in the community. this local support explains why the u.s. has not defeated it after 14 years of warfare and tens of thousands of americans soldiers and now many more afghan troops. keep in mind that in afghanistan the u.s. has decent local ool lie in the government. in syria, it has no local ally.
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the kurds are a crucial ally and should become more important in the months ahead but they're an ethnic minority and cannot govern arab lands this american troops were to liberate. this problem, the lack of a credible local makes ground operations in syria harder than in iraq or afghanistan or vietnam the each case the u.s. did not want a partner. nearly as strong as the moment suggest. many countries are fighting against sunni, saudi arabia from the united states to putin's russia. from neighboring russia to far away france. the territory is shrinking. the message is unpopular to most in its land.
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it can hammer away for months, even years. if instead, panicked by terror attacks americans were to send soldiers into the deserts of syria, it would enter the one arena where isis has the advantage. after a few inconclusive years, people would start asking how quickly can you withdraw. for more go to let's get started. let's get straight to the latest from paris.
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joining us now in that city is cnn's international diplomatic editor. nick, what is going on in belgium where there seems to be alarming terror. what is the latest? >> reporter: it may involve weapons or explosives. the subway system is shut again for the second day. stores were closed. police were checking vehicles very closely. clearly looking for people on the highways here in france. there's still police at some of the traffic stops. the way you pay to go along the highway here. there's still some police there. in both belgium and in france at the moment. there is still concern that more broadly than the situation in
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brussels, more broadly concerned there could be another terrorist action. the ring leader is dead. turkish officials arrested somebody they believed could have scouted out the attacks to target the attacks in paris a little over a week ago. the man on the run that the french and belgium are looking for still whereabouts unknown and last seen crossing the border last weekend into belgium. the terror threat in brussels at the moment and the concerns seem to indicate that belgium authorities are extremely, extremely worried and are taking the most cautious action possible to avoid a terrorist event that could mimic and kill as many people as the one here did in paris. >> terrific reporting. thank you so much joining me in
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new york, the intelligence, the political foreign policy stuff, the former director of the cia and the president of the council on foreign relations. phil, i want to start with you. when ever these events take place, we look back and say we should have known these guys. you've been there in realme. there are thousands of leads all the time. what turns out to be lead, 99.9% of them false. were there genuine mistakes in this case? >> the day after, you're saying here is the data. how could you not have seen this in advance? you have to go to the day before. you have a sea of information and you have to boil it down to one case. you can't do that with a 100% probability. what we may find here is not necessarily that you can find every one of these cases that europe, some states are still reluctant to pass the information to another state
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when they are violating the privacy of a sovereign citizen. if you're radicalizing, that's not illegal. do you want to tell one our neighboring states that he's not committed crime but may be going down path of radicalization, that's a tough choice. >> radicalizing, that's freedom of expression, freedom of opinion. what do you do about that? >> i think not just in europe but here in the united states we're on the cusp of what will be a second great debate about the balance between individual privacy and selective security. the questions you just raised willed come to the fore. i think the pendulum will have to swing. not dramatically but somewhat in the direction of greater collective security. we'll have to gather more data, more information about societies and our populations. >> do you think that this will extend to being able to kill a french citizen on a battlefield
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if, again, they haven't committed a crime. we've crossed that bridge. are the french facing this issue? >> i think this is the great untold stories of this war. presidents of countries having the authority authorize the killing of a citizen on foreign soil when they can't be brought in with the judicial process. if you're the french president and the americans are likely to develop intelligence on this that you can locate the perpetrators, you have the choice do you allow the plot or plotters to continue because you bring them home to justice immediately or do you authorize a targeted killing? i think given what the french president said you'll have a third country say it's appropriate for the leader o of a country to authorize the killing of a citizen on foreign soil without judicial process. >> you dealt with the europeans for many years.
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this is case where you need more europe. you need the europeans to share more and deepen the ties the be politics is less europe. >> you need much more sharing. you're not seeing it. we're also going to see a whole change that once you get into europe you're free to move around. those days are over. the european project moving forward, i think we're more likely to see it move backwards where the balance between nationalism and europeanism is about to move in the direction of nationalism. >> when we come back i'll ask richard about hillary clinton who gave a big speech by isis hosted by him. stay with us. lthier. it begins from the second we're born. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it.
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richard, you had hillary clinton, you hosted her for -- she gave a speech and did a q and a. i wanted to know what you thought. it seemed when i asked her directly is this like president obama suggesting an intensification of the strategy or you proposing changes. she said no this is intensification. she was pretty careful to keep herself close to president obama. do you think her strategy makes sense? >> it is. it she said we're not going to
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repeat what we did in afghanistan. i think she correctly emphasized the need for local allies and local partners. we can't turn this into a narrative that will play into isis' hand. this is large western crusader army coming in. we have the kurds in iraq. we have to find local sunni tribes on the ground. we can't invent them. we tried that. the other was on refugees. clearly drawing a sharp line between herself and much of what we're hearing in the republican party but much more open to the idea of refugees as in the american political and not imposing a fundamentally greater security threat to this society. just numbers. we have three million muslims in the country. we have millions and millions of tourists every year. the danger is if we get fixated
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on the number of people refugees. we run the risk of alienating refugees. >> you worked in four republican administrations. that's not the position being taken by leading republicans right now. >> i'm prepared for prolonged unemployment. also, there's something about the dna in this country. look at the first amendment. we don't have a religious test in this country. i think we've got to be open to refugees in smart way. this is phil's expertise. we've got to have a smart immigration system. immigration is central to the american narrative. refugees taking them with a spirit of generosity. sure we have to vet people. i believe we can do that and still remain consistent and true to our principles. >> our vetting is pretty good.
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>> what is the strategically important thing to do in syria in. >> first, i would say patience. we get emotional responses including from the french saying this is war. i'd like to step back and say we're not losing. these jihadist have lost territory due to the kurds in iraq. thai they've been hammered in raqqah. one of the question s how to work with partners to continue the military strikes. like it or not how to deal with people like russians to figure out if there's a political solution. bite our tongues and say the russians are part of the solution and accept something that people in this country don't like and it will be difficult during a political season. we're making gains. mashs works.
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that's not going to bring long term solutions. >> do you think there's way to take out the brains of the operation in syria through air strikes? >> we've got to step right out two things. you need people on the ground to hold territory. the people fighting for territory aren't threats in new york. that's point targets that you can beat with air strikes if you have the right intelligence. over time you're going to have to slowly eliminate safe haven so the nerve centers don't have place to germinate. they're not effective against insurgents who hold territory. >> what phillip is saying patience. we can grind these people down. is that correct? can the american political system deal with that. there was an attack in america, the impulse to do something will be irresistible. >> it is essentially right.
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it does mean intensification. we've got to look for ways to compete with them in the digital ways. we've got to take greater steps to make ourselves less vulnerable. there are things we can and should do to reduce our vulnerability to terrorism and we should do those things. >> both of you, terrific conversation. thank you so much. if you're really interested in understanding the rise of isis, don't miss my latest documentary. it's called blind side how isis shook the world. it airs on monday night 9:00 p.m. eastern. next, the french ambassador to the united states to answer a question many are asking in the wake of paris. why paris? why france? eart, electric guitars and rockets to the moon. it's the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done.
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first were the car"charlie hebdo" attacks. last friday savagery where more than 125 people were murdered, but why paris. to help answer that question i have france's ambassador. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> do you think that there's something that makes paris an easier target. there's so much movement. you have the reality of an open europe where one somebody comes in across a border in what is call called -- >> 36 hours later you where in a stumble where you vanish. there are networks that will bring you to syria and you can
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come back. we are able now to deprive some from their passport and try to prevent them from leaving france. we are going to investigate these guys when they are coming back. some of them we have not identified. we don't know that they left. it's quite a challenge. what about the issue that people that people have raised which is that france had an alienated and unassimilated muslim population. it presents this almost unbelievable statistic that 78% of the france is muslim. 70% of the prisoners are muslim. if we look at a statistic of american jails, you'll have
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also, unfortunately, disproportionate representation of some minorities. >> not at that -- >> it's obvious we have a problem of integration of them not only in france but the rest of europe. most of the french muslims are arabs. in germany they are turks and in the uk they are coming from bangladesh or pakistan. it means as arabs they are sensitive to what is happen ng the middle east but they can look at the propaganda of the islamic emirate. it makes us the fault line of the problems. last point, i know that there are some social problems but it's not because you are unemployed that you're blowing yourself in a theater. it's something which is much more particular, which is and
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the problem is radical islam. very obviously. >> clearly it is, but the question is why does radical islam find favor with these youth? are they alienated. is there something going on there that one can do something about? >> it's interesting. when you look at the social profile of the terrorists. look at it and see most of them were not alienated in the economic sense. they have jobs. one of them was a bus driver in french public transportation system. he decide to go to syria. french secularism is hard line.
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it's impermissible for a woman to wear a head scarf. they have this enforced -- >> you don't have the right to wear any religious which means not only the scarf but the keeper but because in the state institutions. you can wear it in the street. it's true that we have to think about the relationship with religion. you are a secular. whey our secularism is to protect the state from the religion. we have to maybe we have to think about it to adjust it. we have to keep our values. for instance, also, the equality
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of the woman really when you have some people say it will be often one hour for the men. one hour for the women. >> we have to find the right balance to defend our values. the muslims have their religious rights in the french society. >> isis claims the reason it attacks france in paris is because it's a center of prostitution and sodom and gomorrah. what do you say to that? >> we're proud to be there. i think we have to send a message that actual ly we're
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going to keep it. next, how much of this is a problem with islam? my next guest has been studying religious extremism for decades. the answer will surprise you when we come back. ♪ so jill, i know the markets have taken a hit lately. mm hmm. just wanted to touch base. how did edward jones come to manage over $800 billion dollars in assets?
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well my next guest has been studying religious extremism for years. he wrote a back about it that's terrific.
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is this about islam? >> a terrorist is committing murder while shouting god is great. this is a religious act. isis is a religious movement. >> what does one do about a movement steeped in religion that proclaims itself as defining islam when here clearly it represent a small minority.
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it was in the 1970s that petro dollars were used in the middle east to fund that put forward what until then had been a very minority form of islam. i think we have to think long and plan long. i've written this book to encourage young muslims to think differently about religion especially in a global age. reflect on the fact that islam won its greatest admiration when it was most open, most tolerant as it was in spain and the 10th to 12th century. let's see if we can grow moderates within the great face to counter the extremists. >> one of the things you stress in the book is that every religion has had these seeds of extremism and it is through this kind of reform that you get rid
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of it. you cautious against the blanket condemnations of islam. you try to use a very soft touch. >> islam is a great faith that's had remarkably wonderful periods of history. in the early middle ages it was the epitamy of tolerance. not liberal democracy by our standards but at least an advance on anything until then. all i can say from jewish and that matter christian history is that when religion turns violent it begins by murdering its enemies and its co-religionists. it has a self-imposed injury on faith itself.
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the violence between christians led to four centuries of secularization. >> in a sense the pattern you're describing is what we're seeing where these terrorist organizations began as exclusively anti-western but now it's the sunnis killing the shiaa. how does one grow moderates? how should westerners view what is an internal debate within islam. how to help the good guys. >> what you try and do is create a situation in which moderates see good practice in other faiths. see the arguments set out. that's what i've tried to do.
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that way you speak to people's outerism. young muslims are hearing the radical extremist voice, the voices that shout loudest. i know with my encounters and muslims in the united states and many of them from the middle east that they are looking for another way, another voice. something that will speak to the better angels. choose a different and better way. >> very briefly, are you hopeful? >> i'm not an optimist but no one with real faith can ever lose hope. >> thank you. i hope you will all stay with cnn after gps today. i'll be on reliable sources talking about the media's response to terror, which is very important. up next, a week from tomorrow many of the world's most
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important and most tightly protected leaders including barack obama will gather in paris. yes, paris. the secretary of state john kerry will explain why the meetings in paris are so very crucial. and can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar? "super food?" is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed?
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one week from tomorrow one of the most important meetings in the world is set to begin. it will convene many of the world's most important leaders including president obama. it will be held in paris. yes, paris under extremely tight security. the city of lights will play host to one of the biggest meetings ever held in france. a conference about how to save the planet. the so called cop21 meeting
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hopes to get global agreement on how to stop global warming. many say the meeting is the last chance to make a deal. when i sat down with the united states secretary of state john kerry last week, i asked him about whether it could work. >> let me ask you about climate change. you are embarking on a big push for the paris summit. the real skeptics in a sense are countries like india and indonesia and to an extent china despite some changes that still continue to use massive amounts of coal and huge amounts of carbon dioxide. that's the real problem. in those countries they want to
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develop. they're not going to stop themselves from developing. we will just cripple ourselves without doing much for climate change. >> that's the challenge. it doesn't make a lot of sense to develop and kill yourself as you do it. we've learned lessons about the downsides of the way in which we have produced energy, electricity and power and transportation and so forth over centuries now. we have to move to a low carbon economy, all of us. if the united states all by itself tomorrow were to drive car pool to work and bicircle to work and plant a bunch of trees and lower our emissions to zero, we can't solve a problem alone. india, china, every ocountry in the world has to be part of it. that's why president obama
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reached an agreement with president, a ground breaking historic agreement to join together to announce the intended emissions reductions that both countries would make as part of the paris negotiations in hopes of inspiring other countries to do the same. guess what, now over 150 countries have announced they're targets for emissions reductions including india. they're not enough yet. we've all got to move more. if we come together in paris, and i believe we can, hopefully we will, to have an ambitious set of targets that we'll all try to reach. that we all agree to, voluntarily, that will be an incredible signal to the marketplace which already is seeing investment move into clean alternative renewable
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different kinds of energy production. the solution to climate change is emergency policy. it's a question of what choices we need to make in order to preserve our ability on this planet to produce food, to have water, to live where people live today without massive dislocations, without massive damage from intensified storms and wildfires and droughts and all the downsides that we're already beginning to measure. this is actually opportunity, not downside. i think paris will help define the full breadth of that opportunity. it's trillions of dollars that will be invested in these new lower carbon energy sources and i think it has the chance of transforming everybody's economy for the better. next, according to a new report, the deadliest terror group on earth in 2014 was not
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isis. we'll tell you what it was when we come back. abreva can heal it in as few as two and a half days when used at the first sign. without it the virus spreads from cell to cell. only abreva penetrates deep and starts to work immediately to block the virus and protect healthy cells. you could heal your cold sore, fast, as fast as two and a half days when used at the first sign. learn how abreva starts to work immediately at don't tough it out, knock it out, fast. with abreva. i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line.
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what's in your wallet?
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you know, you have money saved up, (male #1) when returning home from deployment, so you're looking for that car to drive around in. and usaa actually makes that process so much easier. you can find the car and you can find it to your liking by using their app. i'm definitely able to see savings, uh, through using the car buying on usaa. i mean, amazing savings. i was like, wow, if i could save this much, then i could actually maybe upgrade a little bit. (announcer) usaa car buying service powered by truecar.
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year. he said he hasn't ruled it out for ever. my question is how many secretary of states have gone onto become president? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. my guess is most of you don't know the world's third largest cell phone company after apple and samsung. one of the smartest people writing on technology spent a year in shanghai asking whether it tells us that china can innovate. this is must read for anyone interested in future of technology, which is sort of all of us. now for the last look, the terrible events in paris were followed by police raid, airplane bombings. according to the annual global
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terrorism index, the answer is yes. 32,658 people were killed by terrorist attacks in 2014. that's up 80% from the previousier. let's unpack the numbers. 78% of terror occurred in five countries. most of those are war zones. now boka haram was the deadliest terror group in the world. any death is tragic but it is important to keep the numbers in perspective. 32,658 were kill bid terror last year. in the united states more than 33,000 are killed by firearms
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annually according to the cdc. we do not live there terror of our neighbors who own guns. we should respond to this global increase in terror by continuing to track terrorists and their funds, recognize that governments will have to do more monitoring of communications by trying to stabilize the unstable parts of the world from which these furries emanate. we should not cower in fear or change our lives. in short, we should not be terrorized. the correct answer to the gps challenge question is c. six. thomas jefferson, james madison, james monroe, martin vanburen and james back to y. she will be the first former secretary of state to rise to the presidency in 160 years.
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thanks to all of you for being part of my program. monday you can catch my isis documentary. this week, all this week has been a barrage of disturbing news streaming across our screens. from paris and brussels to mali and lebanon, to halifax and hanover and the campaign trail at home. fear is poison. fear is a crippling poison.