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tv   Early Start With John Berman and Christine Romans  CNN  November 24, 2015 1:00am-2:01am PST

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turkish media says a war plane crashed across the turkish border. we are trying to confirm that for you. french police find what appears to be a suicide vest in a garbage can in a suburb. and hunt under way for the isis voice the death. i'm max foster in paris. this is "cnn newsroom." we have breaking news this
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hour coming in to cnn from the turkish border. a war plane crashed on the syrian side of the border. the cause of the crash remains unclear at this hour. we have information coming through to us all the time. ian lee joins us from cairo. what have you got, ian? >> reporter: max, this is just breaking. what we are hearing now from the russian foreign ministry. this is a russian plane that crashed along the syrian/turkish border. we do not know what caused the plane to go down. we are hearing that one of the pilots, at least one of the pilots did eject. their fate is unknown. this is an in area north along the border. this is an area that doesn't have an isis presence. this is an area that has caused
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friction between the syrian government and moscow as well as turkey. this is a population that has turkish ancest ancestry. at this moment, we don't know the cause of the crash of plane. there is video of the plane going down and on fire and crashing. we are waiting to hear from the turks and what they know was involved in the crash. >> ian, the russian foreign ministry confirming the war plane that did crash was one of theirs. what do you expect the reaction to be from turkey? >> reporter: this is the one thing we're watching closely. if this was the turks that brought down the plane, this
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will raise tensions between ankara and moscow. right now, we do not know the cause of the plane crash. we are hearing the plane was cruising at 6,000 meters over 18,000 feet. that is fairly high. we know that most shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles cannot reach that elevation which means it has to be something a bit more sophisticated. that said, if we don't know what brought this plane down, but has the possibility if it was turkey that shot it down. then to raise tensions, we are hearing as well that this plane had not breached turkish air space. this is coming from the russians. we are waiting to find out what led to the plane crashing. >> ian, let's go straight to
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matthew chance. he's on the line. >> reporter: max, that's right. in the past few minutes, it has been confirmed, of course, by the russian defense ministry and foreign ministry of the kremlin as well that it was a russian war plane down. and they said they brought that aircraft down after violation of air space. what the russians are saying at this early stage is that is not the case. they are saying the plane did not violate turkish air space and stayed within syria. they say it was shot down from the ground. there's not much detail beyond that except the two pilots on board appeared to have parachuted to the ground. again, the condition of those
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pilots is, as far as we're concerned, not quite known. we are expecting to be a statement. the kremlin has told me there will be a statement later on today by the russian president. he will be meeting jordanian officials later on to have that opportunity. he will be making a statement accords to the kremlin about this incident. it's clearly a huge escalation. the first time that i can remember and i think i'm probably not alone in this, that a nato country has shot a russian plane out of the sky. a nato country. it represents the major escalation in the regional conflict in syria, but potentially could worsen relations, which are already strained, of course, between russia and the nato military alliance. this is an extremely serious development that could have far
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reaching consequences. >> this is president hollande to head to washington to convince president obama to work more closely with russians over syria. and there was so hope he might be able to get some agreement, at least on practical coordination with the countries, but this will throw this further off course. >> reporter: it potentially will be a complication, yes. the russians will be furious about this, obviously. and that will depend on what happens to the pilots. the french president hollande is going to washington. he is also coming to moscow on thursday in a couple of days and meeting with vladimir putin. a french/russian alliance on the attacks in paris. russia is close in positions in terms of having to destroy and
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wanting to destroy isis inside syria as quickly as possible. and there's always a division, of course, between russia and the west over what to do in syria. particularly over the fate of bashar al assad. and russia and turks are on different sides essentially in that conflict. the russians are backing the governments of syria and of bashar al assad and the turks are supporting rebel groups to oppose bashar al assad. they have been at odds on the battle field for some time. as i say, now that it has confirmed a russian war plane has been shot out the sky in syria apparently by the turks for apparently violating turkish air space, this is the first plane they would have lost in
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the campaign of air strikes that has been under way by the russians. so it is a huge escalation. of course it is a huge loss of the russians to think one of their aircraft is shot out of the sky. it could have serious consequences for relations in turkey and with nato in general. >> matthew, thank you. going back to ian in cairo. this is the issue, isn't it? turkey is part of the innato alliance. it is an international issue. it draws into question the coalition working in syria and how they are working with russians and this could be interpreted by russia as an attack by nato, effectively, which could be damaging to international relations. >> reporter: this really does have the possibility to escalate dangerously. turkey in the past has accused
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russia of violating its air space. we know the united states has been talking with russia about coordination of air strikes, coordination of air movements to prevent something like this happening so that a plane of either nation or either coalition isn't lost in the operations. turkey has said of russia not violating its air space. turkey said this plane violated its air space. russia is saying it didn't. we hear from turkey state media it was one of their planes that shot that plane down. this has a possibility, a dangerous escalation about turkey is a nato country. we expect to see both countries talking about this. neither side wants to see this escalate where it drags it to
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directly against each other. right now, as we heard from matthew, the turk backing the rebels. the russians are backing what they say is the legitimate government in syria. neither country wants to see this go blow-to-blows directly. there will be a lot of talking between moscow and ankara, but a lot of countries will try to deescalate this as neither side wants tensions to rise. >> these are amateur videos we have to us by reuters of what we see of the crash. it is right on the border. turkey has to move quickly to provide evidence that the plane did cross into turkish air space. >> reporter: that's right. you know, the burden of proof is
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on turkey. they shot it down. they will have to prove it violated their air space. to put it into context. this area on the turkish/syrian border is north of the large turk population. people of turk ancestry and they expressed solidarity with them in the past. they warned not to bomb these people and not to engage these people. in the past, we have seen the syrian regime and the russians bomb this area. an area called the turkman mountain. this has been a point of contention in the past. we are seeing the turkish airplane shot down a russian plane that was on a mission over this area. >> in terms of the accusations
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of russian inn kergs into the area before, they have had tensions, in the past. it is a history here. >> reporter: that is correct. there's been a number of incursions according to turks as well as the americans have said the russians have violated turkish air space and also have had drones violate the air space. turkey has warned russia about this in the past. and there was talk a month ago about coordination. making sure that nothing happens. the united states leading that effort with the russians because no one wanted to see what happened today where a plane of theirs shot down over syria and we don't know the fate of the two pilots. we are hearing they both ejected.
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we don't know their fate. this creates a dangerous situation for everyone involved in the operations over syria. >> okay. ian lee, thank you very much indeed. we have matthew chance in moscow chasing this for us. we will speak to ivan watson who joins us here in paris for the latest on the downed war plane on the turkish/syrian border. [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare?
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>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. russia confirmed a war plane crashed in syria. turkey has suggested the plane violated its air space. the cause of the crash and fate of the pilot remains unclear. these are the amateur images we have in to us. there are reports that the pilots using parachutes coming out of there. we are waiting to hear what their fate is. ivan watson is with me right now. just describe what the russian action has been over the area in recent times. >> max, we know the russians
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intervened in syria and carried out air strikes for weeks. the turks have been reacting to the air strikes because they say they have not just been bombing isis, but also bombing rebels supported by turkey. turkey is a strong supporter of the anti-assad opposition for some time now. and particularly objected to what it claimed russian war planes bombing ethnic turkman. now we have a dramatic escalation there. turkish government agency confirming that the turks have shot down a war plane. presu presumably the russian war plane and presumably the russians have attacked their proxies in syria. >> the turks have to prove the
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russian planes went into the turkish air space otherwise there will be a problem. >> this is not the first time we have seen the syrian war dispute over whether or not a plane was in syrian air space. there was a plane shot down by anti-aircraft fire. there was a dispute with the syrian government over which air space it was in. the fact is a nato military power is claiming responsibility for shooting down a russian war plane. this is the scenario everybody has been worried about ever since russia intervened militarily right now. i can guess, i can predict based on turkish patterns in the past in syria, they will try to convene an emergency meeting with nato invoking the article that says a threat to one nato country is a threat to all. they will try to
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internationalize this quickly. >> and at the same time, president hollande is leaving paris to meet president obama to try to create a coalition between the u.s.-led coalition and syria. that is making things complicated. >> it is still early. we just got a report this happened. yes, absolutely, this is going to complicate french efforts to try to unite people. >> which is hard enough. >> difficult enough. you have moscow and washington very divergent views. you have a military ally now and this russian plane shot down. we have seen amateur pictures, it appears of a parachute deploying. we know other cases where helicopters were shot down over syria and in some cases, the
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crew, the air crew have survived and certainly been taken capt e captive. will this russian pilot have been captured by rebels who view the russians to be very close military allies of bashar al assad. how will that person be treated if they land alive? it will be a big question. >> we will get you get more reporting on that. ivan, thank you very much indeed. in europe, the capital here in brussels is in a state of lockdown. shopping malls and subways and schools are closed until wednesday with the city at the highest terror alert level. here in paris, experts are analyzing an object found in an garbage can. it is suspected to be a suicide vest of the attacks used in paris 11 days ago. french media are reporting the cell phone of salah abdeslam, who is still on the run, by the way, was tracked to the area. the united states issued a
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worldwide travel alert for americans. the state department warnings isis and al qaeda and boko haram continue attacks in multiple regions. the u.s. president will meet francois hollande in washington in a few hours time. we are discussing that with ivan. now the latest downing of the russian plane will be discussed into that. and mr. hollande is trying to build a broader coalition with the fighting in syria and iraq. he will hold talks with german chancellor angela merkel here. and there were five arrests on monday, but no sign of a man that police really want. that is salah abdeslam. cnn's martin savage has the
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latest in the investigation. >> reporter: friday the 13th, carnage and chaos all over paris. police determine three teams of isis terrorists are responsible and count seven dead suspects. isis takes credit for the bloodbath. the isis statement mentioned eight brothers attacks precisely chosen targets in paris' 10th, 11th and 18th districts. there was no attack in the 18th district. a mystery for police. the only thing police would find in the 18th district is this rental car. parked in a crosswalk. a source close to the investigation tells cnn it was rented by 26-year-old salah
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abdeslam. the brother of ibraham abdeslam. and french authorities know unlike ibrahim, abdeslam was alive and well. hours after the attacks, records show police stopped him and two other men in a car on this highway not far from belgium where abdeslam is from. because he wasn't wanted at the time, they let him go. now salah abdeslam is france's most wanted. cnn's erin burnet spoke to his family in belgium. >> what would you say? what do you say to him? >> translator: i would tell him to surrender. >> reporter: belgium authorities picked up two men with him in the car charging them with complicity and through their attorney, they tell a most interesting tale. the two men say a couple hours after the attacks, they received a phone call from salah abdeslam and he founded upset claiming
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his car broke down and he needed a ride back to belgium. the two friends came here and picked him up in paris. the attorney says he had no idea he had been involved in the attacks. the attorney says the men noticed he was carrying something. quote a big jacket and other things. maybe like an explosive belt or something like that. unquote. it raises the question. is salah abdeslam a suspected terrorist on the run or did he simply change his mind and run away? martin savidge, cnn, paris. breaking news. a russian plane shot down on the turkish side of the border. we have more from ivan watson. >> the turkish military said this happened at 9:20 in the
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morning in turkey. there were repeated warnings to the russian war plane. then the two turkish f-16s on patrol responded to the plane. within the rules of engagement, they are saying there were ten warnings to the other aircraft in a period of five minutes. then the plane was presumably shot down by the two turkish f-16s. >> is that confirmation? >> the turkish military saying their f-16s warned another unidentified plane multiple times and shot it down. >> in turkish air space. >> they are insisting it was violating turkish air space. of course, we are hearing a counter argument from the russians saying the air space was not violated. this is dramatic. turkey and russia are economic partners. the closest trading partner.
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perhaps a month or so ago, the turkish president met in moscow with russian president vladimir putin. turkey is a major destination for russian tourists. they are opposing sides of the conflict in syria and now this is exploded into use of force and it will have serious consequences. >> ivan, thank you. we are following that story for you. we will also bring you the latest on the situation here in paris and over in belgium as well after a short break.
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>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. for you just joining us, russia confirms a war plane crashed over syria. two f-16 turkish fighter jets shot down the plane after repeated warning it violated the air space. it landed on the syrian side of the border. those are amateur pictures from reuters. we have ian lee joining us now. can we take it was a turkish military that brought down the plane? >> reporter: that is what they are saying. they said two f-16s on patrol shot down the plane. they say they warned the plane ten times within five minutes and shot it down. turkey said russia violated its air space.
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russia is denying it. this was an su-24 plane that was shot down. russia saying it was traveling at 6,000 meters, roughly 20,000 feet, when it was shot down. both pilots, according to russian military were able to eject. we are hearing reports that one of those pilots could have been captured by rebel fighters on the ground. this is an area north of latakia in the western part of syria near the area called turkman. this is an area where you have the turkman people which have ancestral ties with turkey. turkey had protection of this area. has warned russia in the past of engaging them. this is a source of tension between the two. it looks like today, that the turks shot down a russian
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airplane. >> what sort of response do we get from russia? >> reporter: well, russia, you know, we haven't heard much now from russia in terms of response other than confirming this information. you know, this is going to create really and raise tensions between the two countries. turkey as we have heard from from ivan, they are likely to convene a nato meeting. this is something that all the countries we have seen since the air strikes by russia and air strikes by the united states and coalition began. they wanted to avoid this situation like this where a plane was shot down, but in the past, we have had russian
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airplanes violate turkish air space. turkey has warned over this. this does create a dangerous situation. we will be watching capitals of turkey, russia as well as the united states and other nato members to see what the response will be. >> but as you say, the pilots, we are hearing reports, that there is video of them leaving the plane by parachute. that is why we think they could possibly be captured. >> reporter: that's right. russia confirmed two pilots ejected from the plane. there are reports that the pilots or at least one of them, has been captured. we cannot independently verify that. it is likely. if they were able to eject safely, that if it landed in a controlled area, they would be captured by the rebels.
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this is a very large area, so to be able to follow those parachutes should be relatively easily for the rebel groups. we do not know the fate of the pilots. russia says they are looking into this, the fate of their pilots. if the rebels were able to capture, i think it is safe to say russia will try to get back their pilots one way or another. >> and in terms of that video, what can you tell us about that area there? the border? it is close to the border, isn't it? we need confirmation from the turks. those planes were -- we can actually show you new video i'm being told, ian. you may be able to see this. we are bringing that up now. we have seen -- there we have it. the jet coming down. this is a russian jet over syria. just over the border from
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turkey. it is coming to us by reuters, amateur video. we see that coming down from the sky. clearly that jet coming down there. then it hits the ground. as you say, ian, we believe the pilots ejected before it crashed. >> reporter: that's right. that's what we are hearing from the russians. the russian military is saying the pilots were able to eject. now the turkish immediamilitary they shot down the plane at 9:20. they are not specifying. they said this plane violated their air space ten times within five minutes. during the ten times, they sent out a warning to the plane. you will have to see if the plane violated the air space. russia is saying no.
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turkey is saying yes. what evidence will they present that this air space was violated? really the question is the fate of the pilots if they were able to eject and safely eject and get to the ground. were they captured? what is their fate right now? that is something the russians say they are currently looking into, max. >> ian, back with you as you have more on the terrorism expert and the international security director for the agency. he joins us from london on skype. thank you for joining us. we think this is the first time a nato member shot down a russian jet. is that your assumption as well? >> it seems to be the case. it seems it is the last thing that is needed in the paris attacks that the hope that the russians would form an alliance
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with france and united states against isis. this will complicate things. this is going to add unnecessary tensions that we need at this critical junction. >> your suggestion there about the diplomacy. president francois hollande is heading to washington to paris and meeting with president obama. they are trying to create an alliance. his job is to bring russian and the u.s. closer together on fighting isis in syria. do you think this puts it on hold? >> this is certainly going to deflect away from trying to form an effective consensus. now president hollande is in washington, d.c., they will ask these questions about the jet being downed. it will put them in a difficult situation. they need russia on board. at the same time, turkey is an
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an important nato ally. this is a situation that was inevitable. turkey has long accused russia of interfering in their air space. they threatened them in the past. although economic relations with the two countries is strong, politically, there has been tensions. this is a situation which i fear could actually delay genuine consensus against isis. >> turks saying that the plane was in turkish air space. the russians are denying that. any confirmation to decide whether or not they were in a position, a legal position, to shot down that aircraft. >> certainly this is a technical issue. to go into turkey air space or not. also the fate of the pilots come
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into question. if they have been captured on the ground, who captured them? was the turkish government the case? the situation may be eventually resolved because they will probably release them back to russia. if elements connected to isis are involved or criminal groups, that could escalate the situation further. this is a situation that one should have expected. they should have been better in terms of how planes traveling to avoid this problem from happening. because of what has happened in paris, instead of us focusing on forming an effective coalition, now we are going to be derailed about this incident which only benefits isis indirectly. >> describing the local groups that are on the ground there who and russia has been accused of bombing them. they are actually supported by turkey. just describe that dynamic.
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>> this area seems to be mostly occupied by the turkman. they have a strong ethnic bond with turkey. ankara has long supported them and defended them and threatened syria against any retaliation. they have in the past been accusing russia of bombing places in syria. now, this has become a problem with russia and turkey now for the last couple months. the situation, of course, is also complicated by the fact that you have isis nearby as well. they have been fighting the turkman. all these different factions involved that complicated situations on the ground. >> in terms of the images we are seeing here, it will be
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damaging, isn't it, to the coverage of the conflict in the area. there has been accusations that russia is not coordinating properly with groups on the ground and going it alone and turkey saying enough is enough. in terms of russia's work in the area, how do you think it will be effected by this? >> as you mentioned, russia has been carrying out air strikes unilaterally. there has been some coalition with the partners to let them know what air strikes are taking place to avoid clashes in mid air. when you have two separate air strikes narratives operating in the air over syria, something like this was going to happen. this was a situation that i suppose could not have been avoided unless you have proper consensus and strategic alliance between russia and nato members.
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we are hopefully going to get to that stage in the aftermath of the paris atrocities. this will delay any significant progress that could be made. certainly for president francois hollande who is keen on bringing russia and the united states together, it will make the situation all the more precarious. >> absolutely. thank you very much. president hollande on the way to washington to discuss that. we will see how it play into the debates. after the break, we will speak to our correspondent matthew chance in moscow for his latest information.
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>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. if you are just joining us, russia confirmed one of its war planes has been shot down over syria. the turkish government said two f-16s shot down the plane after violating its air space. russia says both pilots on board managed to eject from the plane before it crashed. now we are wondering where those pilots are. here, europe is on high alert. the belgium government says brussels will remain at highest terror level until at least the start of next week. schools and subways are closed until wednesday. and in france, officials are analyzing an object found the garbage can. french media reporting the cell
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phone of salah abdeslam who is still on the run, was trapped in the area prior to where the belt was found after the attacks. a u.s. intelligence bulletin said attackers carried out some areas targeted. the reported issue from the fbi also says that this shows signs of tactical planning and military training. let's bring in our expert here with us. first of all, i want to talk about what happened on the turkish/syrian border. >> it is on a worldwide tour in d.c. today and tomorrow with angela merkel and then tomorrow, vladimir putin. he is trying to create an
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inaftinte international alliance. this is changing his strategy. >> turkey is part of nato. hollande wants to use the coalition. >> yes, absolutely. he doesn't want the u.s. to have boots on the ground. he knows that is not possible. he needs the logistics. also of russia. only two weeks ago, russia and america were enemies on this topic. even france was not happy with the position of russia and now actually this week, the goal was to get all the parties together to create one single coalition. i'm afraid what just happened in turkey really complicates. >> is it worth to go on meeting merkel and putin? >> that is a good question. i think he will continue because he can say i'm not responsible. france is a nato member. he will have something to explain. >> in terms of the
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investigation, the idea of salah abdeslam's suicide vest could have been in a bin in paris, what does that mean for the investigation and what happened later on? >> it could show that he basically ran away from the part and it could mean salah abdeslam decided not to go ahead with his plan. that is what his loyals have said. that is the reason they tried to convince him to turn himself in. it does show however there are problems with the surveillance. abdeslam was properly in paris on the night of the attacks. he got away. he was checked three times and 30 minutes later, he became the subject of international arrest warrant. the police almost had him, but he was still able to get out of the country. >> frightening to think he is still on the run. potentially in paris as well.
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we are following this breaking news. russian plane shot down on the turkish/syrian border. we will bring you the latest information after taking a short break.
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breaking news this hour. russia confirming that one of its war planes has crashed over syria. the turkish military says two f-16 fighter jets shot down the plane after repeated warnings that it violated turkish air space. russia says both pilots on board managed to eject from the plane before it crashed. this is image that we have of the video coming down. the big concern right now is what happened to the russian pilots. russia saying they did eject. they are on the ground, presumably have they been taken by local groups? in which case, which local groups? how does this play into president francois hollande efforts to unify the russian and u.s. led efforts in syria? this will all play out today. we will follow that for you. i'm max foster in paris.
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>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. breaking news this morning. turkey shooting down a russian fighter jet near the syrian border claiming air space was violated. could this increase the war on isis. the escalation in syria happened before hours before france's president arrives in washington trying to build an international coalition. terror threats triggering
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worldwide travel alert as we get new information on how the paris terror attacks were carried out. >> good morning. welcome to "early start." i'm alison kosik. >> i'm boris sanchez. >> good morning. breaking news. turkey claims it shot down a russian war plane claiming it violated air space and ignored several warnings. russia insisting it was over syrian air space the entire time. the downing of the russian plane complicating the fight against isis and efforts to remove syrian president bashar al assad from power. cnn's ian lee tracks the latest live from cairo. tell us more about what brought the plane down. >> reporter: alison, let me give you a timeline of what happened. you can see in the video, dramatic video, of the su-24 bomber jet crashing

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