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tv   This Is Life With Lisa Ling  CNN  December 2, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PST

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somebody in a specific apartment to come out, it would appear and i don't know how long you have been on the scene or if you now how long the police presence has been on the scene although they were clearly staking this apartment out after the initial clo slaughter because they saw the vehicle leave but it seems they haven't gone in the apartment yet or they have with the robotic device. >> that's my feeling they have yet to enter the apartment and that's how it seems. but it's a fluid situation and i cannot see the area where they would enter. i can't see the front door. i don't know what's happened since they made the announcements. -- what appears to be the robotic device has not been used yet. i'm looking at that now. that's much closer to me than the location that they are standing in front of. >> okay. obviously it's prudent of them to use a robotic device given the concern, first of all, they are still searching the area, initial area, inland regional center because they said there
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was something that they potentially believe to be an explosive device on the scene, a device was thrown out of a vehicle that was i believe it was not or rendered it so and were cause shous about the su vurv. it would make sense they would be cautious about entering this apartment since the top of the hour, i want to take a breath here and bring all of our viewers just joining us up to date on what is going on right now. the fbi tonight is not ruling out terrorism in the deadliest mass shooting since sandy hook. at least 14 are known dead. 17 people wounded at a social services center in san bernardino, california. reportsf three killers spotted leaving the scene in a black suv and police spotted that suv leaving an apartment complex in
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redlan redlands. a shooting with two suspects ensued at a later location, a man and woman were killed. separately a man and woman were killed there and a third person was seen leaving the area and was arrested not clear ofif tha person had anything to do with this. may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. that apartment in neighboring city of redlands is surrounded by law enforcement. they have just made an announcement saying that anybody in that apartment should come out. the question of course, that is is not known at this point is what motivated these killers. justice reporter evan perez was just reporting that law enforcement, his sources believe that the person was in this holiday party and it was a holiday party of county health -- for a county health
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agency employees that a person was at this party. there was some sort of altercation or dispute. the person left and then came back with others and that's when the killings began. we just got a recording of the police rid owe traffic as officers caught up to the black suv as well as during the chase and the shootout, this is the first time we're hearing this. let's listen. >> last seen ally way. do we have a clothing description? >> male dark skin is all i have on this frequency. >> have them go there -- >> i don't need more people here unless it's a swat team, that's it what's your exact location? >> san bernardino and shedden. one guy down and there is one guy in the back of a car and we have a bear cat. >> we have the suspect vehicle
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stopped. go ahead and extract him. stand by. wait for the bear cat. >> copy. >> right now we have one down outside the car, one down inside the car. well, we don't know, hold on. from what we understand, one is on the run. >> again, conflicting confusion reports there. you get a sense of the chaos and hear shots in the background and you hear the last officer saying one suspect down. we saw that suspect down on the street early on if you were watching the helicopter coverage from the local affiliate there. and a long gun by the side of the person. the officer then saying that believed there was suspect was down in the vehicle itself and talked about somebody on the run but again, that seems to conflict with what the chief said earlier which was they
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search that area based on people calling in saying that somebody was jumping fences and the chief said he wasn't sure if that was police jumping fences which they were, as well, but they searched that faarea. we're joined by harry and chris and lenny and art, bob baer and john. jonathan, it's still confusing if this third suspect exists. >> that's important anderson because as we've seen in past incidents such as the boston bombing, once they got the other known known person then they just said we've got everybody and everybody started celebrating. this is important because this is still on going because they think they may potentially have a third person involved and when you're looking at groups like this, the first time that i know in recent history where a female
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has actually partaken in this, that shows us that there's tactics involved that we're not used to so we have to look at this as the potential what it could possibly be, which is a terrorist attack. it's important to define what terrorism is. terrorism is the use of violence to instill fear or intimidation in a culture of political change. that will be the determining factor of what happened in this initial incident but we can definitely determine that this is an active situation that's going on in the redlands right now. >> there terrorism, groups with domestic terrorism agenda and groups. chris, what is the number of fbi agents involved in this tell you? it seems like a huge number. >> yeah, the l.a. office is one of the largest fbi field offices just second to new york and
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listen, i can tell that this level of resource commitment by the fbi this early tells me that there is a high likely hood this is terrorism. they would not be applying evidence response teams to different crime scenes. the search that's about to happen. it just tells me as these resource levels mound and this resource commitment gets higher and higher that there is a higher lohigh higher likelihood this is terrorism. >> he said it is a possibility they are making some adjustments to the investigation and wasn't clear on what that means and maybe i'll check in with you chris on that but few potential things, which point them to two terrorism. what do you think it means they are making adjustments to the investigation? >> that tells me they are bringing in resources from other field offices around the country. more expertise in evidence
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recovery. more resources in the area of render safe, bomb render safe. more agents to knock on doors and bring in information and exploit computer hard drives. i think it's all hands on deck at this point and i'm just reading based on what dave said and based on how i know the fbi operates. with that level of commitment with those adjustments, this is beginning to look more and more what we thought it was in the beginning. >> when you say terrorism, could be international and could be domestic actors? >> correct. the fact -- >> i mean, agenda, not obviously they could be homegrown terrter wolves but it could be an international focus. it could be religion focused. it could be political, it could be anything in this stage you're say sglg yeah, exactly.
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>> i'm saying terrorism via the internet or relations with people overseas it becomes international terrorism. domestic terrorism is home grown ideology, not inspired overseas. so it remains to be seen. we don't want to split hairs but looks more and more like terrorism. >> bob ba rrer, what do you see? >> anderson, i have biases and looks like terrorism. it was a military assault, two gunman at least, man and woman, assault rifles. they left apparently ied or what looked like one at the entrance to hold up police. when they ran from police they were throwing apparently pipe bombs out. those tactics you don't get off
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the internet. you have to train for those and plan them long in advance. i can't explain the nature of the target but what also disturbs me about this looks like terrorism is these two apparently were ready to die. in a situation like this, you don't pull a gun on the police and not expect to die. i mean, they were being chased. this is some sort of -- these people are committed to something. they are not like the colorado springs shooter that gave up who is a psychopath and it's unclear whether that was terrorism or not and the man was crazy. this is looking more and more like terrorism and my law enforcement contacts in california have been worried about that happening in southern california for sometime and they have been couple months have been telling me this. they had a suspicion something would occur here. i don't know if it's related but back to my biases, i have to wonder. >> the idea of leaving the scene, leaving the scene, would that lead you to believe they didn't want to die?
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would that lead you to believe there was another attack that they hope to hit multiple locations to kind of sew as much fear as possible? >> anderson, i think it was. they studied police response time times in that part of california. you get in there and kill as many people as you can and get aw away. the more i hear, the more it sounds like terrorism. it's not a psychopath taking revenge. i think we can exclude that. when the fbi says they are going down the terrorism route, they are not excludeing it for good reason. they are bringing a lot of resources in that tells me. >> lenny depaul, when you have at least two shooters, male and female, it's very rare to have two psychopaths join together and we saw that in columbine with the two shooters there but
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that was a -- that's a very rare instance, isn't it? >> absolutely and i agree with bob 100%. he hit the nail on the head. having a female involved, she was tactically sound and been trained, she's wearing tactical gear and what not so that certainly leads one down that road that the agent in charge was going down. so as they gather intelligence, anderson, i don't know if these two doa suspects had cell phones on them. i'm sure they had been dumped. they are doing their homework. they probably know more than we do now. they are gathering all kinds of intel and we'll find out. >> it is interesting they would go back after the shooting to a residence whether it was something they actually lived or sole place they had just rented or somebody else there and would leave again, again unknown why they would have left, did they know they were under surveillance, did they want to
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hit another target or trying to get away? >> there were a couple keys and we heard it. why did they have pipe bombs? when you put together pipe bombs with a male and a female dressed tactically and using tactical movements and i'm sure that person that went into that conference room at first was doing it to make sure this was the right location to hit and everything that's happened afterwards, you have the chief opening the press conference and turning over to the burro and the burro basically admits they are heading down the line of terrorism over the next 24 hours we'll hear more about terrioris and more search warrants executed and they will try to take down the whole cell. >> one for thing, lenny, i think back to the mumbai attack in 2008 and one of the things that
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the pakistani terrorists did in that attack is put bombs in taxi cabs and those taxi cabs drove off without realizing they were vehicle-born explosive devices and they would explode and not only kill people but distract police and fear with multiple attacks in various locations. people, you know, if you've got a bunch of pipe bombs and place them in places and drive off, you can create a lot of havoc. >> yeah, anderson. >> they are crossing -- >> go ahead. >> they are crossing their ts and dotting their is anderson. sorry, arty. >> that's okay. mary was in the building when the shooting took place. thank you for talking to us today. i'm so glad you were safe. i know you were across the street when the shooting started. can you take me through what you saw when you first realized
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something was going on? marie, can you hear me? i think we just -- >> yeah. >> murray, can you hear me? >> yeah. >> hey, murray, you're on the air. it's anderson cooper. can you take me through what you saw and what you heard? >> oh, well, i was in -- i was walking across the street and then i looked over and there is a shady looking guy and i don't know, i didn't get a good glimpse of him. he looked dark skin. i looked and i saw a big gun, he started shooting. i got scared so we all run like there was a group of us that ran to a building. we were just in there like speculating like who it might be and it was scary. >> where were you and where was this person? this was outside. >> i was outside. he was going into the building. >> so you saw him entering the
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building. what building was he entering? >> the hospital where the -- >> the inland regional center? >> yes. >> okay. >> you said he was dark skinned. do you know what he was wearing? >> he looked pretty heavy so i think he had gear on. >> what sort of gear? >> i don't know. it was just a glimpse. >> would you say he was wearing dark clothing or light clothing? >> it was pretty dark. >> okay. and did you get a sense how tall he was, what his face looked like? >> i really couldn't tell you. it happened so fast. >> and when did he start shooting, when he was entering the building or before? >> right when he went into the building. >> do you have a sense of how many shots you heard? >> i don't know, a couple when we went to the building.
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>> and how do you have a sense -- >> it happened fast. no, we didn't see. >> appreciate you talking to us. thank you very much. again, we're back with our panel, chris, lenny, art, harry, bob baer and dan. to bob baer's point the more details coming out saying there was a male and a female style of clothing and some sort of tactical gear and some sort of rifles and handguns and evan perez reporting two pistols and two ar-15 style guns have been recovered. a potential explosive device and sense of material and unclear
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what is happening now in the apartment in redlands where it's believed they went after the initial slaughter and seen leaving and police followed the suv and that's how the encounter came to an end. the third suspect out there? dan, in terms of the terrorism angle which chris was saying, you know, listening to former colleague of his who is at the fbi was saying it is a possibility the number of agents, fbi agents they are bringing in of personnel and the way they are making adjustments in the investigation, sounds like terrorism. what do you make of that, dan? >> couple of points on this, anderson, the presence of secondary weapons, handguns and presence of weapons and pipe
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bombs. one of the things i noticed in the recording of the police scanner is they were engaging obviously from a moving vehicle and that's not easy to do. anderson, this zlgisn't the kinf thing that was spur of the moment thick from someone that got kicked out of a forty. we can pretty much wipe that theory out. in the presence of the fbi, one of their specific areas of expertise in my experience working with then is they are absolutely incredible at crime scenes and this is an enormous crime scene. we have the community center and route of travel and shell casings everywhere and the fbi and no comparable and be able to grid this out like they can and gather the evidence that needs to be gathered to ensure this is
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adequately investigated. >> i want to emphasize that we're seeing the situation in redlands, california. this season active situation. it is not clear whether or not there was a third person. there was a person arrested that was leaving the scene. police say they don't know whether that person was involved or not. didn't find anything. this is this apartment in redlands where they are being cautious. scott glover, our reporter there on the scene is back with us on the phone. scott, how long was it ago you heard police or the fbi announcing on a loud speaker to anybody inside the apartment and
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what specifically did they say? >> it was about half an hour ago and they used, you know, the specific address and they told the occupants at that address to come to the front door. this is the fbi, come to the front door. they announced that three or four times and i'm not sure what happened after that but they did make that announcement several times. >> and you've been on the scene for awhile, for cla rification, what you've heard from an officer on the scene, that this is the only active location in redlands so that would lead you to believe that this is the location at least two of the shooters went back to after the killings at the inland region center and left and were followed by police, correct?
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>> that is correct. after i heard the law enforcement official at the press conference talk about that s scenario, i asked a police official if there was any other active scene and they said no, this is the only one and again, there is a large police press sense here, which has grown quite a bit since i first arrived a couple hours ago. there are, you know, several dozen officers here. i've seen many if not most of them dressed in, you know, military style fatigues, swat officers helmets on, heavy swat equipment. there is a robotic device that they just took down the street toward the area where it appears they are trying to make entry. it seems to be a townhome it looks like apartments, townhomes thanks sort of thing. can't say for sure. it's dark out. that's the feel of the place. >> jonathan in a tactical situation like this, entering an
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unknown apartment where perhaps at this point may have a layout if they are able to from the building itself but entering something like this has to be extremely dangerous a, is there somebody inside and is the apartment bobby trapped and we've seen situations where police went to the location, the apartments or their rooms were bobby traped to further create mayhem for any other law enforce the. >> it extremely tense for many situations, one of which you have to make sure you're first off entering the right apartment and law enforcement we often get intel that we have to act on quickly and that is something that first and foremost we have to make sure that we're going in the right place. secondly, if you're going into a place where you have a warrant and it's unsuspecting, that i would say lowers the tension a little bit but it's still a very tense situation when you go through the door because there is unknowns behind the door even
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if you do know the layout. in this sicircumstance, there i no secret they are coming if in fact one of these individuals got away and they -- these individuals even if they probably were planning for law enforcement to eventually get there most likely, so when you enter into that, it's -- you know, not using the same violence of action you would use if you were going in in an imminent situation so this is where they have to back up. they have to look and assess the situation and most likely they are looking for booby traps, for bombs and i think that's probably why i thought i saw a robot there a moment ago. they will be slow and methodical when they enter the situation versus a hostage stand off. >> no reason not to be for protection of the officers has to be paramount. in a situation like this can be confusing, i want to give the viewers a better idea of the geography of this, where the
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events, the horrible events of today played out. tom foreman joins us. can you show us where everything took place? it's important to see the relationships and how far away they are from each otherer. >> it's important and mysterious. san bernardino is about an hour away from los angeles. if the gunman had taken off in the amount of time before the next encounter with police, mexico, las vegas, l.a. there are a lot of places they could have reached in that time driving the speed limit. instead, what we're talking about now, anderson, redland over here, interstate 10. if you went down interstate 10, you could be the original scene down here. this is going to be five, six minutes maybe. a very simple drive. you know what this is over here? this is the other location which is a very short distance from
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the shooting where the shootout occurred with the car and everything. all of this when i say geography is missysterious, why did these people stay so close to the scene when they could have gone so far away? >> in terms of securing the area, what does that look like? >> we're seeing some of that. if we move in closer, look where the first scene was. this is what police have to worry about is this area in here if somebody ran away like they thought and if it's not connected to the redland's location, look at the houses out here, all the places where this person could not only hide but encounter other civilians. that's a difficult challenge, anderson, and they still don't know if somebody got away if they stayed here or search area is expanding and expanding and expanding. >> there is so many questions at this hour and it's great we have this panel we do.
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does it make sense two, at least two would attack, kill 4 plus people or 14 people we know about, wound many more at the inland regional center and then go back to the apartment that they were at where they then get trail -- you know, trailed by police? if they wanted to continue to commit multiple acts, you would think they could have gone directly from the inland regional center to continue to kind of try to create havoc, no? >> well, if this is in fact terrorism, you look at paris. sort of a similar scenario. they went back to places that were easily traceable and so they are really not thinking a lot about saving themselves and making an escape. if anybody, they were thinking about doing more damage and
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maybe they had plans to do just that. so i don't think they were that concerned about making their escape if you will. i think whatever they were doing, they were probably regrouping to do something else. >> lenny depaul, do you agree with that? they could have gone directly from the inland regional center to another location if they picked out one and, you know, done something there and moved on just as the various groups in paris attempted to do. the group that drove around to the various bars. >> certainly had ample opportunity and time to get out of dodge. they had a game plan and they had a good game plan in place. hopefully they will find out what the thought process was. to go back to the location, you know, law enforcement at this point you got to do this by the numbers and searching them and
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tactically doing tactical entries, throwing robotics in there and taking a look at everything before they move. i solute all the law enforcement folks out there right now. >> art roderick, in an investigation like this how quickly does new information come in when you have these numbers of fbi agents and law enforcement personnel working on this and working together on something, they must have already tried to interview people who live in the apartment complex where these people are to gain information about how many people actually lived in that apartment and how many people seen coming and going from the apartment. all of that stuff is underway even though this is still an active situation, right? >> yeah, anderson. it's a lot of information coming in. you're basically drinking through a fire hose but you've got information coming in specifically about support systems, about the crime itself so you've got to kind of filter that through and make sure that that information is getting to the investigators that are handling that portion of the case. again, kudos to law enforcement.
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if they are headed to another location they could have very well under estimated the response time of law enforcement. when this type of call goes out, anybody on the street that's carrying a gun and badge will be responding regardless of what agency they work for. i want everybody to stand by. we're going to take a quick break. active situation, fbi raid underway in an apartment in redland california believed to be the apartment where the two suspects were dead killed in that shootout earlier today. believed to have been staying whether they lived there for how long or rented it, we don't know but we believe this is the apartment where the attack was launched from where they went back to after the initial attack of the inland regional center and as they were leaving spotted by the police and followed which ultimately led to the shootout and death. the big question, is there a
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third suspect and gunman, a third to herbpotential terroris there? police have one person in custody and questioning. a lot of questions remain. we'll take a short break and when we come back, we'll play the police radio traffic during the shootout that we heard as the suspects were being followed. you'll hear the gunfire and confusion and the response by multiple officers in the moment. we'll be right back. well, this is a first. at&t and directv are now one. so get ready to laugh here and cry here. scream over here and freak out over there! and maybe go back to laughing here. and crying there. try not to laugh here though, it's rude. and maybe don't cry here, people will get the wrong idea. get the best of both worlds. directv at home and 2 wireless lines. from directv and at&t.
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if you're just joining us, this is an fbi raid near san bernardino where the two deceased suspects in the nation's deadliest mass shooting are believed to have launch the attack. we have a recording as officers caught up to the black suv. this is after that black suv left that apartment in redlands, the apartment being at some point tonight will be searched. they are being very prudent about entering that apartment to execute the search warrant to find out what is inside, is there a third person inside, another person inside and what sort of evidence inside are there any perhaps bobby traps inside. after that suv left, the police were following that suv and i want you to listen to the radio traffic in particulayot only the officers and how they were relaying instructions to the radio operator but also you hear shots in the background as well.
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it's a very fluid situation. listen. >> okay, last seen in the rally way. do we have a clothing descripti description. >> male dark skin is all i have on this frequency. >> have them. >> don't bring any more people here unless it's a swat team, that's it. >> what's your exact location? >> san bernardino and shedden, san bernardino and shedden. one guy down and one guy in the back of a car. >> just for the update, a suspect vehicle stopped. we go ahead and extract it and stand by. wait for the bear cat. >> copy. >> right now we have one down outside the car, one down inside the car we don't know, hold on. one on the run.
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>> that's the radio traffic we heard for the first time just about probably 30 minutes or so ago. that's the scene outside the apartment complex in redlands california at a great distance in a live operation like this for very obvious reasons and safety of law enforcement personnel we don't want to show live pictures that could give anybody maybe in that apartment maybe watching coverage any indication of what is going on outside they obviously know the fbi announced on loud speakers to anybody inside to come to the front door. we've also gotten video of the fbi raid underway. let's listen to some of that. >> come to the front door. it's the fbi.
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come to the front door. it's the fbi. that was the announcement earlier that the reporter on the scene scott glover had been telling us about multiple times, the fbi talking through a loud speaker to anybody that may be in the apartment. we don't know if there is or if that apartment is booby trapped or what awaits law enforcement. they are being very prudent. chris, we talked to you earlier and based on your experience with the fbi listening to what the fbi official said at the press conference this evening probably about an hour or so ago, the fbi official said terrorism is a possibility. they are making adjustments to the investigation and there are a few things that point them in that direction would not go any further down the road but based on the number of fbi personnel we were talking and you think based on the number of resources the fbi is putting into this
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this early on into the investigation it increasingly points to some form of terrorism? >> i think so based on how they operate and the forensic capabilities and ability to analyze complex crime scenes is unrivalled and they have the resources. they have the san diego office nearby and they have the san francisco office, the sacramento office, they can pull in evidence response teams from those offices and las vegas. i suspect that's what is happening and they are going to need every bit of the resources to an list these crime scenes, collect the evidence they need to collect and make sense out of it all and plus as was pointed out, they will be going from one location to another location as leads are developing as they get more information out of the house once they get inside and identify more people or identify the people that were part of this. i think you're going to see the investigation completely blowup. >> chris, in terms of
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organization it's got to be so difficult with people on tv and in terms of dotting all the is and crossing ts and making sure everything is coordinated, how does this from an organization stand point work at this point? the fbi office, are there people -- is it based on the scene? is it based at the l.a. -- how does this work? >> that's a good question. there is software the fbi has that will get them started with databases and setting up some case management so that they can enter all the information that's developed during the course of this information into one place and that's critical. >> so everyone can share in the information. >> right. so -- well, everybody can access the information and analyze it and they will bring in dozens of analysts, not one but dozens and they will sift through and there has to be a lot of discipline
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getting the information from one place because as you mentioned, a lot of departments involved and witnesses involved and a lot of the witnesses are police officers at this point. >> lenny depaul and actually harry you and i were talking, critical the interview with the law enforcement officer who actually was wounded in the initial engagement with these suspects because we believe that person would have gotten eyes on was there a third person in the vehicle at the time the incident began, did that third person leave? that officer may have critical information. >> exactly. he wasn't in really bad condition. but the whole thing, like we said, is there a third shooter here? that's what has me baffled. when i came out on the last presser, they really didn't talk about a third shooter that much. they talked about another gentleman -- >> the chief didn't mention a third person until reporters said wait a minute, what about a third shooter?
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>> the fbi said something about it. who is the third question man they have in custody and the fact is that, you know, when you have an incident when -- let's go back to the party. >> the inland regional center. >> let's go back to the party where there is an altercation who leaves and comes back with two people. if that is true, that story is true, we have three shooters, all right? now the fact that this guy actually came back or went there in the first place you look at this attack, this attack is perfectly planned from the beginning 'til the escape. perfectly planned. why would that person go into that party, get into an altercation, all right? with the possibility of him being arrested in an altercation and the plan being blown up. >> the other question of course, if the person was wearing tactical gear, did the person at the party show up in tactical gear and then get kicked out and
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come back or leave, change into tactical gear and go in. >> that doesn't make sense to me. in my experience if something doesn't make sense, there is a problem. >> lenny depaul, as you look at this, does that make sense to you that there would have been some sort of initial altercation if somebody planned out has a plan with multiple people at least another person to go and commit mass killings, why wouldn't they have gone in and started doing that? >> well, anderson, i don't think these are disgruntled employees that decided to show up and shoot the place up. if there is a third person involved and law enforcement is quiet, maybe he's cooperating, we don't know. i forget who mentioned but the command post is hectic. it's a collective effort from the agencies and everybody is doing their thing but they are leaving no stones unturned and i'm sure as intel is gathered and people call into the police departments, i'm sure they are
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checking social media and gathering all that stuff and again, they may have these two identified so there is a lot going on. it's a hectic, hectic scene. >> yeah, the jonathan, just in terms of the investigation as it is and i mean, former fbi special agent, how complex is it? we were talking to chris about this a moment ago. i can't imagine working with all these different law enforcement agencies and multiple locations and the clock is ticking. >> the good thing is whether the fbi or local law enforcement ovor agency, we do mass arrests quite often and you'll see as they deploy this command post, they have a system in which they bring the intelligence comes in. they catalog that info into leads and leads that have been covered so they don't repeat those leads. one thing, though, that i think is the biggest break down in all this is that if this continues
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to extend into tomorrow and the next day, we have not developed a system to do sustained operations and we very quickly will start depleting our resources because guys will start to be getting tired. the officers will need to be broken up so they can get rest and food and that is something that i think after this is over with and hopefully this gets resolved pretty quickly, we're going to start have to taking a look at because again this situation is not normal. this is almost an evolution in the way that we've seen these shooter involved incidents and we had to start taking these things into consideration a lot of experts have been screaming this for along time and i think this is a good time to start. >> we learned a tip led them to the residence in redlands where
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they surrounded and are waiting and trying to figure out how to get into the apartment and we don't know what that tip was. is that a tip from someone inside the regional center who knew where the person was in which case that may point to a connext with the group or a tip and who saw the vehicle or who saw the two shooters going in in tactical gear after having committed this mass killing at the inland regional center. on the phone is former law enforcement officer talking on the phone with his son as the shooting unfolded. how is your son doing now and walk us through what you heard and learned from him. >> well, first anderson, i want to say our prayers go out to the victims and their families. it's a terrible thing that went
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down today. my son works there and text me and in the morning i get a text, active shooter, i got co-workers shot around me and i made it in my office with several other co-workers and right away i fired back, you know, not being able to be there was bad enough but told him barricade that door, get what you can up against the door and that's what they did and then some time went by and the door was being kicked in and it was terrorizing but it was the suspect, the gunman coming in but it was actually swat team coming to get them out. >> thank goodness. >> yeah, it was a bad time and you can see it's still going on. >> i mean, my heart just stops as you as a dad to suddenly get this text from your son saying active shooter, someone that works in law enforcement, you
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know the reality of what that can mean. do you know how long your son was in that office with his co-workers and could he hear what was going on? the actual most of the killings if not all of them occurred in the conference area that may have been in a separate building or in a separate area orsen t l or centralized area? >> i'm not sure. i didn't speak with him much. his phone was in and out. he said he saw co-workers shot around him so that i can't tell you about that. he did make it into his office and out of there as soon as he rescued them out and detained for being interviewed and got released a little bit ago. >> please give him our best and i'm glad he's doing okay as well as the people with him. thank you. back with our panel.
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many, many years of law enforcement experience with the fbi, marshall service, secret service, cia and others. bob baer, we talked about this. as you put the pieces together and again, early hours and this has been going on for many hours, this is a lot we don't know and it's very easy to jump to conclusions but the fact that the fbi devoted so many resources to this as chris pointed out this early in the investigation, the fact that the fbi says it's a distinct possibility that terrorism was what this was about and that they are looking at that carefully and adjusted the investigation in that, the fact there was male and female shooter, to you is that significant, the male and female involved in this? >> well, i mean, i hate to put it this way but when it's psychopathic killers, it's
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usually white males. the fact there is a female, i exclude the possibility of a bonnie and clyde situation, no sense to it at all. it does bother me. there is some sort of motivation here. what also bothers me in the center. it is this idea of applying apparent random violence to demoralize us which is a trend i keep on seeing more and more. whoever these people related to or why they did it. i can't tell you. maybe we'll know tomorrow. and this whole idea taking on the police with automatic weapons, for me this is something new. i have seen it in the middle east for a long time but it is coming to the united states, whether in colorado springs or here. this is a very, very bad trend and the fbi in southern california was on the watch for a terrorist attack there.
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but i cannot connect that with what happened in the tragedy today. >> it is important to point out. there are a lot of forms of terror, whether it's linked to an international group or religious ideology or political ideology or a white supremacist beliefs or a grudge here. but it is interesting. i remember there was a huge shootout. i don't remember the year, in los angeles. i think it was a bank robbery where you had heavily armed people in homemade tactical gear to rob a bank. that motivation is clear. but in terms of multiple people heavily armed, it has happened before. >> sure, that has happened before. there have been bank robbers that used flak jackets or body arm armor. and that attack you are talk about. i can't remember that year that was. >> i just remember it was one of
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the first times that the lapd was confronted with heavy weaponry and a lot of the initial officers didn't have the right kind of long guns to respond it to. >> that was the turning point for law enforcement. they realized that individuals with -- at that point in time, they were ak-47s that a pistol was no match for that. that was a turning point for lapd. columbine was a turning point for all of law enforcement when it comes to active shooter scenarios. law enforcement used to show up, organize and try to determine where the shooter was, then enter the building or just wait for a s.w.a.t. team. >> right, at columbine you had more than a thousand law enforcement offices outside the school setting up a perimeter, setting up, you know, command and control, waiting for tactical teams to show up for hours. while inside these two psychopaths were killing people and one teacher was bleeding to
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death. >> right. and i think what you're going to start to see now is a shift in the way law enforcement responds to these incidents. i was watching the video as this stuff unfolds. and we're still in the mind set where we throw all of our resources in the location where this is actually happening and not only are we putting our resources in danger, but their ability to go to multiple locations slows down. and so i think what we're going to have to start seeing is a shift in the way we go in. we have tactical units or the regular officer on the street gets better gear, helmets, heavier vests and long guns in their car and just some training to where they understand the tactics of shooting and moving and communicating together. >> it's interesting. i just did a piece on this for "60 minutes" and did training with the nypd on how to go -- to go through how they are
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retraining nypd to respond to active shooters. to your point. it's the first officers on the scene now who are expected to go in, not wait for the tactical team as was done in columbine. they know most of the killings take place, i believe in the first five minutes according to the fbi report. >> and blocking forces are another thing that the military uses that law enforcement is not used to using where we have responders that show up to the initial area and then the other forces actually surround the area and work as a blocking force. before we send individuals in. there you saw this developing in colorado springs last week with the way that they set their command post up three miles away and were sending officers into the situation. and i think that's something we really need to start looking at and we may start to see a shift in the way law enforcement does these things and planning for sustained operations and more
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militaristic type of attacks. >> i want to point out to our viewers, the nypd has been very transparent and public about the retraining of officers and public about their use of hercules teams and tactical teams. they want people to know that they are out there. they have a very visible presence moving around the streets in the city. many cities are doing that as well. washington has been public about it as well. scott glover is back with us, he is at the scene in redlands. just bring us up to date on what has been happening since you heard the fbi getting on the loud speaker talking to anyone who may be in that apartment. >> yes, anderson, they sent a -- what appeared to be a robot to go and search for explosives in toward the front door of the
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residence which appears to be a townhouse off to my side here. there was a loud bang of some sort. and it is really unclear what has happened since then. the law enforcement has been out here for several hours at this point. there are dozens of officers, s.w.a.t. gear, camo, et cetera. they have been focused on this address for quite a while. they are serving a search warrant and the address is linked to the events earlier today, the shooting of one of the suspects. >> do we know -- and i'm pretty sure we don't know. but it's worth asking and pointing out how is it linked? is this a home they owned or rented? at this point is it clear? >> i do not have those details at this time. when they were setting up out here it was a fluid situation. i was able to confirm through a redlands police department official they were serving a warrant and assisting the san bernardino police department.
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i know the fbi is out here. but the details of that nature i'm not aware of at this point. >> right. the other interesting thing, scott, would be did the tip that led law enforcement to this apartment which we know there was a tip. that's what the chief of police in san bernardino said at this press conference. was that tip from someone in the area who saw these killers returning after the shootings at the inland regional center or was it is tip from someone at the inland regional center who recognized or new the identity of one of them of the vehicle as it left. that is unclear at this point. but as far as you can tell from there, this is still a very unresolved situation. >> absolutely. you know, there's tremendous police presence and interest here. in my talking to various law enforcement sources, those questions that you pose are still unanswered and i think it will be a long night for
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investigators. >> no doubt. >> i look forward to answers in the morning. >> we wish them the best in the morning. i want to bring in an official with more information. meredith, thanks so much for being with us. what can you tell us the latest on the investigation that you know. >> we have three active scenes, the original scene of the irc. there was an original emergency sweep for victims and perpetrators of the crime and as they made a detailed secondary sweep there was an explosive device located in the building. the bomb teches are performing what we call a render safe on that device. so that's the irc. >> just -- do you know what kind of a device that was? in a backpack? a pipe bomb, can you give any detail on that? >> i don't have any detail on the construction of the device.
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i will after the bomb techs are done. they have their priorities and that is to render safe. >> absolutely. so continuing on the other two locations what you can tell us. >> so we have an active scene in the redlands which is a house that was found to be tied to the investigation. and there are, again, atf, fbi, and local officers there. they're running an explosive robot through the home just to make sure that -- because of the other explosive devices that there aren't any located in the home. they have asked neighbors to evacuate, immediately adjacent neighbors to evacuate and the rest of the neighborhood to shelter in place. >> and the third location is the scene where the suv was shot up and there was an exchange of gunfire with the officers and obviously we heard from the
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chief of police earlier they are being cautious with how they deal with the suv because of what the chief called sensitive what the chief called sensitive material. -- captions by vitac -- >> took our breaking news, two suspects dead after the worst mass shooting since sandy hook. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. here's what we know at this moment. a police shootout on the streets of a residential neighborhood in san bernardino leaves two suspects, a man and a woman dead and after officer injured. the suspects dressed in at all saw type clothing. a third person detained close to the scene. police don't know whether or not that person is connected to the shootings. it comes after a brutal attack on a conference center where county employees were having a


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