tv The Lead With Jake Tapper CNN December 3, 2015 1:00pm-2:01pm PST
killed in that center this time yesterday. let's go to washington. "the lead" with jake tapper starts now. welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we're going to begin with breaking news in the national lead. we're learning brand new details on that horrific shooting in san bernardino, california, where 14 innocent people who had their lives stolen from them we're only now learning their names. just minutes ago we learned the identity of the first of the victims, his name is nicholas falasinos. he was 52 years old. his wife jennifer confirming that he was among the murdered. this massacre is the deadliest mass shooting to happen in the united states since the sandy hook elementary school shooting in 2012. today we're learning about a possible link that these killers had to terrorism. law enforcement officials telling cnn that it appears the
male shooter syed rizwan farook had apparently been radicalized and was in touch with at least one international terrorism contact on the fbi's radar. both shooters were killed during an hour's long gunfight yesterday when police tore into his rented suv, tore it to pieces in a hail of bullets. a neighbor capturing some of that showdown on his cell phone. >> holy [ bleep ]. shots rang out. holy [ bleep ]. oh, my gosh. [ gunfire ] >> cnn is covering all the new developments including these possible terror links with our team on the ground. at this hour at the law enforcement officials in california are searching through the redlands garage rented by the killer couple.
they're looking to nail down a definitive motive beyond their suspicions. authorities believe this of course was a carefully staged attack. >> there appears to be a degree of planning that went into this. nobody gets upset at a party, goes home and puts together that kind of elaborate scheme or plan to come back and do that. so there was some planning that went into this. >> inside the killer couple's rental home investigators found 12 pipe bombs we learned today as well as other bomb making materials and nearly 5,000 rounds of ammunition along with thumb drives, cell phones and computers that are also being analyzed. investigators found another 1,600 rounds of ammunition inside that rented suv the couple used to perpetrate the horrific attack. as investigators dig into the lives of the slain murderer syed farook and his wife tashfeen malik, we are reporting today, cnn, that sources are telling us
that he was in addition to being a devout muslim apparently radicalized at some point in the last couple years. for more on this radicalization and the ongoing investigation, let's go straight to cnn justice correspondent pamela brown who is on the ground in san bernardi bernardino. pamela, what specifically has the fbi discovered about farook's ties to potential terrorists? >> reporter: well, first of all, jake, my colleague evan perez speaking to his sources who tell him a working theory is that the gunman syed farook may have been radicalized. but i can tell you from folks i've been speaking with investigators still very puzzled about this case. we know the fbi is still stepping in. and at this point still trying to determine whether this was a case of terrorism or a workplace dispute or perhaps a blend of both. fbi investigators are looking at
indications syed farook may have been radicalized. phone communications reveal the gunman had been in touch with fbi terrorism subjects over the last several years. though officials say they were not considered high priority subjects. >> he was not on the radar screen of our agency prior to yesterday. >> reporter: law enforcement officials say farook's behavior at a company holiday party wednesday raised concerns with at least one witness. >> we did have some initial information that he left under some kind of duress or as if he was angry. we also had somebody else say he just kind of disappeared we don't know where he went from there. >> reporter: he later returned to launch his attack. patrick bakari shared a cubicle with farook and had for years. >> i thought somebody booby-trapped the towel dispenser because i was being pummelled. i looked back in the mirror i could see i was bleeding in my temple, my nose and then there's other little fragments all over the place.
>> reporter: one reason investigators believe this might have been more than just a workplace dispute is the cache of explosives and ammunitions they found. officials say it's clear there was planning before the attack. >> if you look at the amount of obvious preplanning that went in, the amount of armaments he had, the weapons and ammunition, there was obviously a mission here. we know that. we do not know why. >> reporter: right now investigators are scrutinizing farook's overseas travel. cnn learned he traveled to saudi arabia in 2013. during that time officials believe he met his pakistani born wife tashfeen malik who helped carry out the attack. he was born in the u.s. and in a dating profile says he's from a, quote, religious and modern family, and, quote, enjoys hanging out in the backyard enjoying target practice with his younger sister and friends. family and friends are stunned. >> why would he do something like this? i have absolutely no idea.
i am in shock myself. >> reporter: and we know some key evidence is being sent right now to the fbi lab in virginia. what investigators are waiting for anxiously right now are the returns from the findings of his laptop, on his phones as well as his wife's phones. that could be key in helping investigators determining if this was in fact an act of terrorism or not, jake. >> pamela brown, thank you so much. with me now phil mudd, former cia counterterrorism official and sean henry, former executive assistant director at the fbi and president of the security firm crowd strike. thanks to both of you for being here. phil, right now what steps are law enforcement officials taking to gather as much information as they can about these individuals? we all suspect we might know what the motive is. but they don't seem -- the fbi and others don't seem 100% positive that they can state it outright. >> i wouldn't be worried about motive right now. you have to think about rings of investigation. first is imminent threat. is there anything in terms of
conferrings with neighbors, family, friends, on his facebook page that suggests there's another event out there? the second ring, right outside that is co-conspirators. are there other people who were involved who might go out and do something today or tomorrow. then step back and say are there people who are aware, are there people who provided training who heard him talk about a conspiracy six months ago, a year ago. so you got to first look at the issue of imminent threat, public safety. the motivation issue is interesting, but right now that doesn't have to do with imminent threat. that has to do with preventive measures down the road. i wouldn't be focused on that right now. >> shawn, how long does it take to prepare for something like this? obviously as the police chief said he didn't just have a fight at work or at this christmas party, go home and come back with all these guns and all these bombs with wearing the outfit he was wearing. >> it's certainly going to take time to find those weapons, to get the ammunition, that was a pretty substantial amount of ammunition, putting those bombs together, acquiring the materials et cetera is going to take time and likely had some
help, very big possibility. one thing i'd mention what phil said he's absolutely right. the imminent threat is the top priority. but as you start to determine what the motive is, you might also uncover some intelligence that would also help assist if there's something down the road that you might be able to prevent. >> and, phil, law enforcement said farook had an explosives lab in his home where they discovered at least 12 ieds or pipe bombs. how easy are these to put together? >> too easy. if you're looking for example triggers that might indicate to law enforcement or intelligence officials that there's an attack in place, this is the kind of thing you can learn to do over the internet. so if you're looking at a trigger that might lead somebody, the fbi for example to say, look at this guy, he might stage something imminently. the kind of information he's acquiring to build a pipe bomb doesn't take a lot of expertise. i'm not looking at that necessarily as a trigger tells me this guy's going to conduct an operation. >> and, shawn, there seems to be this question of was it terrorism, workplace violence, paul cruickshank has noted there have been several instances of
both where somebody has committed terrorist attacks, isis inspired against their co-workers in september 2014. moore, oklahoma, a suspect beheaded one woman, attacked another. and that was considered terrorist. in june 2015, leon france, somebody else hung and then i think beheaded his boss. and then i believe he took a picture and sent it to isis. so it can be a combination. >> you know, jake, we've talked about this before. what makes somebody move from being aspirational to being operational where they're actually taking action, acquiring weapons and then asserting an act. is there something that happened in the workplace where this person possibly could have been inspired, radicalized. and there's something that happened in the workplace that caused him to take their action out there as opposed to some random place, they're motivated by a particular act or particular person in the workplace. >> although, phil, we also know that he rented this car, which does suggest that there was some sort of planning to do it at this point. i mean, the cache of weapons
that could be at any point you could do that including with the bombs. but the idea you're renting a car, that suggests the sort of imminence if you're using the suv for that purpose. >> that's right. it clearly in terms of the acquisition of the vehicle, the amount of rounds they had suggests there was planning involved here. but we're too quick to say black, white, terrorism, nonterrorism, i'd step back and say there are hybrids here. you can have a hybrid that says i have been disadvantaged in the workplace. people are prejudice against me. i should be moving forward more quickly. by the way there's a motivation out there provided by some preacher on the internet that says that the murder of innocence is acceptable. i think we're way too quick to categorize this into a simple basket. it's not clear to me that we have a cut and dry case here, jake. >> all right. phil mudd, shawn henry, thank you so much for your expertise. 300 police officers all tracking down two suspects. and in just hours after the shooting started those two suspects had been tracked down and had been killed. the car chase, police shootout and the tactics used to find
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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. within just two hours after the loud, bloody massacre, multiple agencies swiftly went in piecing together evidence and witness accounts to track down this man, syed rizwan farook and his wife tashfeen malik, armed with 1,600 bullets and bombs. [ gunfire ] >> one guy down. one guy in the back of the car. >> a massive and mess left behind. the last hours of their twisted plan played out like this. 11:00 a.m. pacific, law enforcement swarm in after
reports of multiple active shooters at sand bernardino's inland regional center. hundreds of workers are evacuated by police. >> try to relax. everyone try to relax. >> but the shooters remain unaccounted for. >> i'll take a bullet before you do. that's for damn sure. just be cool, okay? >> tim was filming from his office. >> i see two bodies, one hunched over on a bench looks like a male to be deceased and another female 15 feet awaylaying in a pool of blood. >> two hours later police remain unaware of the killers' whereabouts. >> shooters may have left in a black suv. >> 3:20 p.m. miles from the massacre police engage in a shootout with those inside that vehicle. >> working from positions of advantage right now. >> firing nearly 400 rounds. [ gunfire ] >> oh, my gosh. >> terrified neighbors watch. as a chase that began near the suspect's apartment ends with both shooters dead.
5:30 p.m. pacific, law enforcement return in force to the apartment with a search warrant, unsure of who or what is inside. >> come to the front door. it's the fbi. >> worried about booby-traps, police send a robot to break through the door. back at the regional center the scene is just as fragile. a cluster of pipe bombs are discovered. >> they're taking a very cautious, slow approach to processing that building and rendering that safe. >> reporter: 10:00 p.m. pacific, some resolution. >> the two suspects that were in that car are both deceased. and i have their names. >> joining me from san bernardino, california, is retired police chief jim beerman, formerly of the redlands, california police department. as well as cnn law enforcement analyst arthur roderick, a former assistant director of the u.s. marshals. arthur, let me start with you. the law enforcement response yesterday is being applauded. it's being harolded. what about it do you think was
particular ll lly effective? >> i think the fact that usually in these types of situations responses are anywhere from 7 to 12 minutes. this was a 4-minute response. and i think because of that immediate response they were able to collect information right away that led them to the actual suspect vehicle, which i think and i've talked to a lot of my law enforcement friends out there, and i think that they were ready to hit a second target or either come back and possibly hit the same location where the c.p. was being set up and the triage area was being set up. >> chief, these two killers were armed to the teeth as art suggests with more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition in their car. 5,000 rounds at their home along with 12 pipe bombs. how do police train to deal with individuals who are packing that kind of heat? >> well, i think every situation is different, but they're trained to protect themselves. and when somebody engages them in the kind of gunfire that they
did, they're going to return with a lot more gunfire if possible. and that's what you saw yesterday. >> art, given the weapons used, the level of preplanning that is suspected, do you believe as you just suggested that they had other attacks planned? does that seem likely to you? >> no, that's fine. i think they did. i think they did have other attacks planned. and i think because of the quick response and the fact that that police officer kind of ran into them as they were coming back to the redlands house is exactly what stopped those future attacks. to have that amount of ammunition, those weapons, those pipe bombs in that vehicle, i think they were heading to another location to do some more damage. >> i completely agree with the fact they were masked up, they didn't want anybody to identify them. the fact that they went through the house in redlands where there was more ammo and they had the amount of ammunition and weaponry they had with them and
the fact even after the police are chasing them and they're engaged this that gun battle they're heading back to the original scene knowing full well there are hundreds of police officers there indicating they had something else up their sleeve. >> chief, were you surprised at all that the killers were found and taken down so quickly? >> no, not really. i think it's fortunate they did. they obviously could have taken steps to get out of the area, but the law enforcement agencies in this region cooperate really, really well. and when that mutual aid call went out, there were hundreds of police officers that got into this area very quickly. and everybody in the whole east valley part of this county was looking for these folks. so it doesn't surprise me at all because we've seen this happen not with incidents that are anywhere near this horrific but with other kinds of things like bank robberies or other kinds of shootings. >> art, how likely do you think it is that there are other individuals out there who were part of this conspiracy who may also be posing a danger, as we
just heard former cia official phil mudd talk about? >> i think there has to be. when you look at the logistics, the communication that went into this, the planning, there has to be other people that helped them out there. i think one of the key parts too is in these responses by law enforcement, the law enforcement officers, the first ones on the scene are basic patrolmen. they have a handgun, they might have a shotgun, a standard vest. and they're going up against somebody with an ar-15 or ak-47, that puts them at a huge disadvantage. we have to start looking at how our first responders are equipped when they go into situations like this. >> and, chief, i'm not sure if you've seen the footage but we just aired it and there is a scene where one of the officers inside the inland regional center is -- he's evacuating employees out of the building and he says, i'll take a bullet before any of you. how important --
>> i'll take a bullet before you do, that's for damn sure. >> there you just heard it. how important is that kind of reassurance in a situation like this? >> well, it's critically important. these people were tremendously traumatized. if you can envision what they were going through, they've had the scare of their life. i can't even imagine what they were going through. and to have somebody like a police officer come in and make that heroic statement that they mean, he means that, he is going to take a bullet before he lets somebody hurts them, just gives those people who had their life shattered gives them some hope they're going to get out of this thing alive. >> all right. thank you so much. appreciate it. communications with more than one suspected terrorist overseas, new details are coming in right now about the male shooter's radicalization. that's next. plus, his wife what do we know about her? what do we know about her role in this plot?
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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we're continuing with our breaking news. right now law enforcement officials telling cnn they still have not found a definitive and proven motive for the deadly attacks in san bernardino. they are of course coming through the backgrounds of the killers, syed rizwan farook and his wife tashfeen malik to piece together a picture of what specifically motivated the shooting.
sources tell cnn that farook a devout muslim by many accounts may have been radicalized. he did recently travel to saudi arabia where he met his wife. get right to cnn justice reporter evan perez. he's been speaking to his sources. evan, i have to say there are a lot of people out there saying obviously this is islamic terrorism. >> right. >> law enforcement not there, at least not yet. why? >> they're really not there. and right now frankly the working theory they have is this might well be one of those hybrid cases where someone might have radicalization in their background, but also perhaps had some working beef, some beef with people at his workplace. and that's perhaps maybe what triggered the shooting yesterday or at least played a role. we do know that they believe there are indications that there was radicalization that was happening there with this shooter. and perhaps his wife as well. the fact that you have two of them carrying out this shooting together leaving behind their 6-month-old daughter really does
break the mold from some of the cases that we have seen recently, jake. also, the fact they're looking at some of the contacts that he's had with people who have been on the fbi's radar counterterrorism investigations. they were not. they were not known at all until this event yesterday. but they had contacts with people. so now the question is what do those contacts mean. >> right. >> right now it doesn't appear to be a lot, but that's something the fbi's chasing down. >> of course there have been these hybrids before. we talked about it earlier in the show in moore, oklahoma. in lyon france, individuals seemly inspired by isis killing co-workers or in one case a boss. but one of the things that's so odd about this case in addition to the husband, wife and dropping off the 6-month-old is the amount of supplies that these two have. this wasn't just a couple with a knife. do investigators have any idea how they got the components to make these ieds? to acquire 1,600 rounds of ammunition on them as well as thousands more. and was it legal?
>> right. that's the thing. i mean, everything that they had appears to have been legal. the improvised explosive device that they left behind at the first scene at the first shooting was a rudimentary device. it was not a very sophisticated device. the question is, was this from one of those recipes that are readily available on the internet published by isis and by al qaeda and other groups? that is something the fbi is studying right at this moment because they're not sure which recipe this is following. they certainly do believe though that this was not a very sophisticated device. but it does show some kind of know-how. and that's what urgently they're trying to figure out where the black powder come from for the device that didn't go off really. and how did it come up with this recipe to make this device. >> and what's the next step for investigators? >> well, one of the things they're doing is they're tracking down everybody who may have had contact with these people for the last few months. any indications of that radicalization, again, this is a suspicion that they have. it's not confirmed.
but it is something that they're working onto try to make sure they understand more fully the more recent past of these two people. >> evan perez, thank you so much for your rorting. appreciate it. joining me now forensic psychologist, dr. mohandy. what does it tell you that farook targeted his co-workers. >> the fact that he targeted his co-workers particularly the regional center which is not a high value target to a terrorist group particularly, to me speaks to more of a personal agenda. i believe that there's a strong likelihood that the most significant issue here is going to be a personal grievance. now, on top of that there's certainly going to be an ideology. so i agree with the hybrid issue in this case will be likely. >> and another thing that's odd about this case as you and i were just discussing during the commercial break is the fact that his wife was involved. we haven't really seen much of that in the past. >> we don't see too many
pairings in these kinds of cases, particularly where you have workplace grievance, even this hybridization that we've talked about. however, we have seen this in younger people who will have these pairings. you get likeminded individuals who are mutually reinforcing each other's dysfunctional ideas, their grandiose thinking, need for notoriety, whatever the case may be, their sense of needing to get even. and if you get two like-minded individuals who happen to be in a relationship married, what end up happening is that secret becomes a very powerful bond. it becomes a closed system. and they're off and running because it becomes part of who they are, what they're going to become, and the organizing basis of their relationship. so it's not unheard of. it is rarer. and unfortunately it becomes a toxic pairing as we've seen in this tragic case. >> but another thing that's so
odd about it, kris, is the fact they obviously had just started a family and had a 6-month-old daughter. and then they drop the daughter off with somebody, what might that mean in your office as a clinical forensic psychologist. >> well, the fact to me they had a 6-month-old child they dropped off before going to do this very organized violent act suggests that that was the final stage of their preparations. that they were going to abandon their child in order to fulfill this, you know, mission or whatever you want to call it. that their selfish desire to inflict pain and suffering upon the world and on these innocent victims trumped the natural tendency to want to protect one's child, to see that child grow up. it's horrific. and it speaks to their
selfishness, their cowardly nature because there are so many people in this world that suffer difficulties at work and in other circumstances who weather those storms in order to be the parents that they are. and it just speaks to how committed they were to other things besides the more important mission of raising one's child. so to me that represented the final stages of preparation, the abandonment of that child. they knew exactly what they were going to do. and it was the final step in that commitment process. >> and, kris, i have to say, i think a lot of people, a lot of us watching the press conference in which members of the family spoke and said they can't imagine this and they had no idea and they can't even believe that their relative would do such a thing. how legitimate do you find that? i think a lot of people who watch that think, come on, you must have known something. >> well, there may have been
concealing of their intentions. but certainly as time passes we will probably learn about leakage, the signs that they may not have had normal motivations, that there may have been more going on. and the natural tendency among any family, i think, is to engage in some level of denial about the issues that are troubling them. and i think the tendency to kind of circle the wagons in this situation is powerful just straight off, you know, kind of a family tendency. i think there's often a lot of denial. but at the same time these peop people, the offenders, were doing a significant amount of concealing of their true intentions as they embarked on planning the stockpiling of ammunition and trying to figure out what their end game was going to be. >> all right. dr. kris mohandie, thank you as always. sources have been telling cnn
that the male shooter appears to have been radicalized. we know he traveled overseas to saudi arabia, to pakistan. is that relevant? could he have been radicalized during those trips, or was it more likely he adopted a twisted ideology just sitting in his living room in front of his laptop? we'll talk to the author of a new study who has looked at this very question of radicalization. that's next. ♪ well, hello... ♪ santa?
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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. continuing with our national lead. fewer than 24 hours after that husband and wife rampaged through a san bernardino conference center killing 14 innocent people, wounding at least 21, the deadliest mass shooting incident in this country since sandy hook, president obama addressed the horror. he did not seem overcome with grief as he did after newtown, or visibly angry, as he did after that gunman in oregon murdered ten people. instead the president today seemed almost dejected,
frustrated that he was again addressing another mass shooting in america. cnn senior washington correspondent joe johns was in the oval office when president obama addressed the california massacre not long ago. joe, how did the president seem to you in the room? >> jake, i think you could say the president was tentative and muted. tentative in talking about the investigation because his top advisers had been tentative in what they were able to tell him. muted perhaps in talking about policy, the issue of gun control because his aides said he's frustrated. he's had to do this so many times over the course of his entire administration. president obama ordered flags at half-staff in honor of the san bernardino victims in a statement in the oval office surrounded by his national security team. trying to be reassuring but full of uncertainty after briefings from his attorney general and fbi director. >> at this stage we do not yet
know why this terrible event occurred. >> reporter: and that's the key question, still unanswered. what was the motive? >> it is possible that this was terrorist related, but we don't know. it's also possible that this was workplace related. >> reporter: and then again with reports that dead suspect syed farook was radicalized and in touch with overseas terror contacts, the administration like law enforcement is still holding out the possibility that other factors were in play. >> there may be mixed motives involved in this, which makes the investigation more complicated. but rest assured that we will get to the bottom of this. >> reporter: but even with that, caution from across the administration against a rush to judgment. >> he was specifically had in mind that people should not jump to conclusions, that he's not going to jump to conclusions, investigators are not going to jump to conclusions.
>> reporter: turning to policy, mr. obama was back to pressing congress on gun laws on what he's called the most frustrating domestic policy fight of his presidency. >> so many americans sometimes feel as if there's nothing we can do about it. it's going to be important for all of us including our legislatures to see what we can do. >> reporter: it was the 16th time during his two terms in office that the president was in front of the cameras speaking about the use of firearms and violent crime. >> the majority of those who died today were children. beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old. we are confronting yet another mass shooting. and today it happened on a military installation. somehow this has become routine. the reporting is routine. my response here at this podium ends up being routine. >> reporter: the white house is considering executive actions to
put in place what it calls some limited common sense gun protections, but so far no word on details or the timetable for that. and a predictable back and forth in the white house briefing room today over measures the white house says would keep more guns off the streets and whether they would have made any difference in san bernardino. these are hypotheticals that have been discussed here in the briefing room before, jake. >> joe johns at the white house. thanks. sources are now telling cnn that the male shooter had apparently been radicalized at some point. it's unclear when he became a zellot or by whom he was inspired, but how could a seemingly ordinary american become a warped devotee of extremist terrorist ideologies? let's talk about this all with an expert on radicalization dr. lorenzo, director of george washington university's program on extremism. dr. veno, thank you for joining us. you just did a massive study on
isis and radicalized americans. from what we know about the suspects now, and obviously we're still learning by the minutes, is there anything in their profiles, anything that jumps out at all, any risk factors? >> well, we know apparently that he was in contact with other individuals who are investigated suspected of terrorist, that's always somewhat of an indication. we've been talking about travel patterns. i'm not certain that's a necessary -- we don't have isis sympathizers in america, there's no such thing as a common profile. we have teenage girls, we have 40-year-old men. we have people born into the muslim faith, we have converts, 40% of them are convert. >> 40% are converts? >> 40%. and all come from all ethnic groups, white, african-american, latinos, jewish, it's a very diverse bunch. so there's no such thing as a common profile. it is not uncommon to be well
integrated, adjusted, having a good job as apparently the suspect had. >> that's not uncommon. >> not at all. >> because president obama and others have talked about poverty and disenfranchisement, joblessness as a root cause of terrorism, but that doesn't necessarily square with what you're finding with these radicalized individuals. >> it's not a fact it can be excluded. we see for example in some cases in france, in belgium, it's part of the problem. but absolutely that's not the end all and be all. obviously we have plenty of people who are quite well integrated and quite well adjusted and still radicalized. remember the times square bomber, somebody working as a financial adviser lived in suburban connecticut yet he was radicalized and planned an attack here. plenty other cases, think about the ft. hood case, a medical doctor yet killed 19 people. poverty is one factor, but absolutely not the only one. and we have plenty of well integrated people. >> you talked about some of this
travel abroad. he had made the pilgrimage to mecca and traveled to pakistan. obviously millions of people every year make the hodge, go to pakistan, travel. is that something that police should be looking into? and i guess the real question is is it more likely that either one of these individuals, either one of these killers was radicalized there in saudi arabia or pakistan? or is it more plausible that they were radicalized sitting at home in california in front of their laptop? >> it's very difficult to say. traveling to those countries is absolutely no indication per se. together with other risk factors potentially. but we have millions of american muslim who is travel to mecca for pilgrimage, there's nothing wrong with that. we cannot stigmatize the fact they travel there. potentially something cow happen there of course. statistically likelihood more likely radicalization took place here in front of a computer as you were saying. >> really? >> what we normally would see is
people radicalized here. remember the boston bombers talking about their chechen roots and chechen civil war there, these are kids radicalized in boston. not chechnya. we'll know more about the specific case of course and if there was radicalization where it took place. but statistically i would say something more about here, something could have happened in pakistan, something could have happened in saudi arabia. >> right. >> but not necessarily the case. >> just talking about the likelihood. doctor, thank you so much, appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, minutes after the murderers sprayed san bernardino with bullets, paramedics rushes right in to try to save whomever they could. so what was that like treati ii victims on the streets merely seconds after a slaughter? our own dr. sanjay gupta talks to one of the first responders. that story next. ♪ snowmen with buttons, snowflakes with icing ♪ ♪ candy corn feathers, sure look enticing ♪ ♪ rice krispies treats, the fun doesn't stop - ♪ ♪ how many ways can you snap, crackle, pop? ♪ make the holidays a treat with kellogg's rice krispies.
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alert treating at least 21 victims of the attack. our chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta is at arrowhead regional medical center, one of the local hospitals taking care of the victims at this hour. and, sanjay, you spoke with one er doctor who is also a volunteer s.w.a.t. member? >> that's right, jake. he does both. and i'll tell you, it may sound unusual, but it's becoming more common. a new kind of doctor, a sort of necessary type of doctor as he explained it to me because they go in very early, jake. in this case he got there even before other members of the s.w.a.t. team to try and take care of patients at the scene. as you well know, jake, it was an active scene. so they go in with both medical gear and as they call it tactical gear. handgu handguns, assault rifles in case he needed to protect himself. in addition to doing this work, taking care of patients at the scene, they spend time training
s.w.a.t. members how to better protect themselves from a medical standpoint, how to make themselves safer. i spent a fair amount of time with him today, jake. listen to how he described this one particular teaching point. >> even tactics are changing right now for law enforcement. we're going sideway and now we go to the front to expose less organ injuries better than -- >> so instead of -- >> go through sideway and bullet come through -- goes through both lung and heart and comes through the other side. whereas we would go from the front you have a plate protects your heart and hits one of the lungs or the other can still be functional. >> that's fascinating. you always see people approaching -- >> the lower profile. there's a sort of teaching point again there, jake. typically just the side profile's too vulnerable, so he's going there and teaching them to wear certain kind of armor and actually have that be frontally facing. but just an example of what is happening now. this intersection between
medicine and in this case the s.w.a.t. team in order to do the job they have to do. >> it's so tragic that that's the kind of teaching this doctor finds himself doing. did he describe for you at all what it was like going into the chaotic scenes? >> yeah. he did, jake. quite a bit. as you might imagine just catastrophic the types of weapons this particular doctor was a doctor who is a veteran of the iran-iraq war. and he talked about the fact the same sort of munitions, the same caliber, the same velocity of bullets are the things he saw back in that war. i don't know that i should describe more than that, but you understand what i'm saying here. they were patients who obviously were able to survive this, but these were very, very devastating injuries that he saw. but again, by being there early, even during an active situation he was probably able to help save lives that otherwise would have been lost. >> all right. a war zone in california. dr. sanjay gupta, thank you so
much. law enforcement is still of course trying to determine the specific and proven motive for this horrific attack. we're learning more about how at least one of the shooters was radicalized. that story next. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. when i went on to ancestry, i just put in the name yes, we are twins. of my parents and my grandparents. i was getting all these leaves and i was going back generation after generation. you start to see documents and you see signatures of people that you've never met. i mean, you don't know these people, but you feel like you do. you get connected to them. i wish that i could get into a time machine
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happening now, breaking news. married killers. shocking new details of the rare husband and wife team who committed mass murder before going down in a hail of police bullets. tonight, we're learning what may have driven them to kill. i'll talk to the u.s. congressman representing san bernardino. he has new information. sources tell cnn that syed farook had been communicating with individuals being investigated by the fbi for terrorism. did s