tv Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer CNN December 3, 2015 2:00pm-4:01pm PST
happening now, breaking news. married killers. shocking new details of the rare husband and wife team who committed mass murder before going down in a hail of police bullets. tonight, we're learning what may have driven them to kill. i'll talk to the u.s. congressman representing san bernardino. he has new information. sources tell cnn that syed farook had been communicating with individuals being investigated by the fbi for terrorism. did saudi arabia and pakistan
trips play a role, or was he radicalized online? the arsenal, the assailants firing hundreds of rounds at police and carrying 1,600 more rounds with them. inside their home a dozen bombs with tools to make more. were they planning an even bigger attack? i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." this is cnn breaking news. >> we're following the breaking news. disturbing new details about the shooting massacre in san bernardino, california. and the husband and wife team who killed 14 people and wounded 21. they've been identified as 28-year-old syed rizwan farook, a u.s. citizen, and his pakistani born wife tashfeen malik. law enforcement officials are telling cnn farook was apparently radicalized and was in touch with people being investigated by the fbi for
international terrorism. in an online profile farook described himself as religious but modern and said he enjoyed traveling and doing target practice in his backyard. right now police are searching the couple's home where at least a dozen pipe bombs were found as well as hundreds of tools to make more explosive devices. we're covering all of this much more this hour with our guests including congressman pete aguilar whose district includes san bernardino. and our correspondents and our expert analysts they are standing by for all the late breaking developments. let's begin with our chief national security correspondent jim sciutto. jim, you're learning more about these killers. >> wolf, here are the key new details tonight. law enforcement officials cite signs, evidence that syed farook had been radicalized. they say farook had been in contact by phone and social media with known terrorism subjects overseas. and they say he had traveled to pakistan and saudi arabia. police say none of these new details either individually or
collectively is conclusive. investigators still careful to say they do not know the motive, but they are tonight building a clearer picture. tonight, signs the deadly california rampage could be tied to terrorism. investigators searching for a motive found evidence shooting suspect syed rizwan farook had been radicalized, via contact with known terror subjects overseas. however, they have not determined definitively whether those extremist beliefs or other workplace grievances, or possibly both, triggered the mass shooting. >> it was obviously a mission here. we know that. we do not know why. we don't know if this was a -- this was the intended target or if there was something that triggered him to do this immediately. we just don't know. >> reporter: the shooters, syed rizwan farook, a 28-year-old u.s. citizen, and his wife, tashfeen malik, 27-year-old u.s. permanent resident, were not previously known to the fbi.
and were not on a list of potentially radicalized people. however, law enforcement officials say that farook was in contact by phone and social media with international terrorism subjects under fbi investigation. the subjects were not considered high priority. investigators are also examining farook's travel to pakistan and saudi arabia where it is believed that farook met his wife malik during the annual muslim pilgrimage. p born in pakistan eventually came to the u.s. on a k-1 or fiancee visa before obtaining a green card. farook's brother-in-law says he is stunned by wednesday's bloodshed. >> i have no idea. why would he do that? why would he do something like this? i have absolutely no idea. i'm in shock myself. >> reporter: police are now working at the couple's home to determine how they managed to amass an enormous arsenal. two assault rifles and two semi-automatic handguns. more than 6,000 rounds of
ammunition and high capacity magazines. police also found what they described as a bomb lab in their home with a dozen improvised pipe bombs, in addition to three others rigged to a remote control car left unexploded at the scene. signs that a bigger plot could have been in the works. >> nobody just gets upset at a party, goes home and puts together that kind of an elaborate scheme or plan to come back and do that. so there was some planning that went into this. >> investigators, intelligence analysts, they look for patterns. and there are facts here that fit patterns of radicalization and perhaps terrorism. contact with known terrorist subjects and sympathizers, foreign travel, but there are also patterns here that fit workplace violence including that reported altercation at that holiday party yesterday, wolf. tonight, a definitive motive, they're still not there yet, investigators, but they're gathering evidence and certainly this path becomes more credible. >> it could have been a little both, radicalization plus workplace anger, violence,
whatever sort of combining to cause this mass murder. >> that's right. and there has been some precedent for that. >> jim sciutto reporting for us. thanks very much. let's bring in our justice correspondent pamela brown. she's in san bernardino for us tonight. pamela, what have authorities learned about farook's actual communications? >> reporter: well, we know the fbi's involved now in this investigation. and so far they've uncovered that syed farook had been in touch with several fbi terrorism subjects, people that were being investigated for possible ties to international terrorism though i'm told by my sources that these people weren't considered the top ten. in other words, high priority terrorism subjects. and they have not been arrested so far on terrorism. but it is still significant in light of what we saw here yesterday that the gunman had been in touch over the past several years with these terrorism subjects. i'm told that at this point in the investigation they have not been able to uncover any very recent communications that he was maybe coordinating or
planning with one of these terrorism subjects. i'm told communications are a few weeks out and even a span of a few years. also investigators are looking at possible communications and associations syed farook had overseas, wolf. it's not clear how that could be relevant, but given the fact he had this foreign travel which in and of itself isn't that significant. but the fact he did, they want to know what he did over there, who he met with. right now the fbi is fanning out to talk to these people, to interview some of these terrorism subjects to see what those communications were about and to see if perhaps they missed something. at this stage though, wolf, it doesn't appear that he was part of any cell, any like that. but again, i can't stress this enough it is still too early. and the fbi has still not determined whether this was an act of terrorism or an act of workplace dispute or hybrid, as you just discussed. >> and as far as you know, pamela, neither one of these two the husband nor the wife was any
u.s. terror watch list, right? >> reporter: that's right. in fact, that is part of what's so perplexing to investigators. these two were not known to them. right now they're doing a lot of work to try to put together sort of a history of their lives. who are these people? who have they been in contact with? because these were not people -- these were not one of the hundreds of people that the fbi has been tracking recently, more recently on terrorism. so that is part of the challenge for investigators and why it may take a little bit longer to get that necessary information, wolf. >> pamela brown in san bernardino for us tonight. pamela, thanks very much. let's talk about all of this with democratic congressman pete aguilar of california, he represents san bernardino. he's also a member of the armed services committee. congressman, first of all, my deepest condolences to you, all your friends and family and colleagues out there, constituents who may be effected by what happened in san bernardino. let's talk about this syed
farook. he apparently was radicalized, he apparently had been in contact with terrorism subjects as they're called in the u.s. and overseas. do you believe at this point he was connected to terror? >> you know, what i've said consistently is that this is an act of terror on my community. that's what i can speak to. talking with folks within this community, i grew up here, these are our friends and neighbors. and to see them struggling to go through this, and to see the lockdown and the chase and the ensuing time and tragedy is difficult. but this is an act of terror on my community. i'll let lawyers and other folks talk about the definitions of that, but i can just tell you what i'm hearing here in the community. >> but do you believe it was like radical islamic jihadi type terror? >> well, we have to let the information go. that's what the investigation is for. and law enforcement officials are asking those difficult questions now.
and i trust that they will work toward that motive and work toward this investigation in order to bring some conclusion to it. but that's what the investigation is for. what i'm concerned about now is the community moving forward. there's a vigil this evening that i'll be participating in. and this is the appropriate time for the community to come together. we look forward to starting that difficult process this evening. >> have you already been briefed, congressman, on the communications that he had, farook had with terrorism elements whether in the u.s. or overseas? >> i've been briefed by the fbi and i'll continue to ask for briefings moving forward. but again, those are questions for law enforcement officials. and right now our concern is focusing on those law enforcement officials who put their lives on the line, and the victims in this tragedy. >> can you share with us what the fbi has told you? >> we've had a couple discussions. i can't share that.
they're the appropriate ones who are having those discussions. but, you know, i'm asking questions on behalf of my community. and i look forward to their continued discussions with me about this process. >> do you know when this couple moved into your district? >> i don't. i know there were multiple addresses listed for the individuals. one of which was the redlands address that you've reported on that had the ied devices. and at the public briefing this morning they indicated, the police indicated that was their residence. >> have you personally heard anything from their families or their close friends? >> i have not heard anything from the families of those individuals or any friends. i've been heren site since last evening. and having conversations with community members about what we need to do in order to move this community forward. i'm a fourth generation resident of this area, of this community.
and i'm concerned about moving forward and what we need to do in order to start that healing process as a community. >> understandable. congressman, we're getting some new information. i want you to standby if you can. we're going to take a quick break. much more when we come back. ♪ just look at those two. happy. in love. and saving so much money on their car insurance by switching to geico... well, just look at this setting. do you have the ring? oh, helzberg diamonds. another beautiful setting. i'm not crying. i've just got a bit of sand in my eyes, that's all. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.
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bernardino, california, we've just obtained the driver's license photo of 28-year-old syed rizwan farook. there it is. he was a u.s. citizen. this picture by the way is from 2013. we're back with democratic congressman pete aguilar of cafornia, he represents san bernardino. he's a member of the house armed services committee. congressman, by any chance did you know any of the 14 people murdered? >> i haven't seen the full list, wolf. i don't have that information, but i'll work with the sheriff's office and the coroner's office in order to look. but i know many of my -- my brother's a county employee, i know many members and friends that have been san bernardino county employees. and they're all shaken. the community's shaken. but we're going to move forward. we're going to have this vigil this evening. we're going to start that healing process tonight. >> congressman, as you know the police they're still investigating that home bomb laboratory inside the home of these two killers.
as far as you know is that site secured yet? >> that site has been secured since yesterday as far as i know. the redlands location. that's what i know. that's what law enforcement officials have indicated. they have gone to that site and secured it. they found those ieds as you mentioned and they continue to work that site as part of the active investigation. >> that he found about a dozen ieds plus thousands of rounds of ammunition which certainly would suggest, congressman, they had more attacks if not planned but at least potentially out there. do you believe that? >> well, i do believe that the high number of ammunition that they had was not a good sign. and i think the true heroes on that side of the discussion are the law enforcement community and the first responders. multiple agencies came together,
not just fbi and atf, but san bernardino county sheriff, san bernardino police department, redlands police department, probation, city of colton, all came together and secured the sites and worked together to ensure that there wasn't any more casualties that evening. >> do you believe syed farook was targeting specific people at that christmas holiday luncheon that was going on over there at the inland regional center? >> i've heard that question asked of law enforcement officials, and i think they're the better ones to discuss that. that would lead to the motive and further down in the investigation. i hope they can answer that question for the sake of our community. i think that we deserve that answer. >>s far as you know, did the husband, was he the one who pulled the trigger, or was his wife shooting as well? >> i haven't been in any briefing where they have indicated that level of information. >> that's where we stand right
now. lots of questions, congressman, as you know. our heart goes out to you, to your entire community over there. thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you, wolf. >> pete aguilar, the congressman representing that district. coming up, what negotiators and investigators -- excuse me, what investigators are learning about one of the killer's possible connections with international terrorists. plus, we have new details about the woman who along with her husband took part in this mass shooting. hi i'm heather cox on location with the famous, big idaho potato truck. our truck? it's touring across america telling people about idaho potatoes. farmer: let's go boy. again this year the big idaho potato truck is traveling the country spreading the word about heart healthy idaho potatoes and making donations to local charities. excuse me miss, have you seen our truck? you just missed it. ahhh! aw man are you kiddin' me? ♪
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killers behind the san bernardino mass shooting. sources tell cnn the man apparently became radicalized, made contact with international terrorism suspects. cnn's poppy harlow is in san bernardino for us tonight. poppy, what are investigators learning about both killers potential motives? >> reporter: well, they have not identified a motive yet, wolf. but we have learned some significant things including that syed farook, the 28-year-old, was radicalized at some point. to what extent or what role that may have played in the attack we still don't know. but what is truly remarkable is the fact that he and his wife were not known by authorities whatsoever despite buying all this ammunition, making pipe bombs, syed farook has no criminal record at all, no red flags were raised by authorities. and then this happened. tonight, officials are closing in on a motive that left 14 dead and 21 wounded. syed farook, a county health department inspector, was believed to be in contact with
more than one terrorism subject who the fbi was already investigating. reaching out as recently as several months ago on social media and over the phone. law enforcement believe he had been radicalized. >> if you look at the amount of obvious preplanning that went in, the amount of armaments he had, the weapons and the ammunition, there was obviously a mission here. >> reporter: the shooting rampage began after farook left a san bernardino county health department holiday party, only to return shortly after with his wife, tashfeen malik, both dressed in black carrying semiautomatic rifles. >> we believe the suspects when they entered fired somewhere between 65 and 75 rounds from their rifles at the scene. >> reporter: that's when terry pettitte got a text message from his daughter who was inside. >> shooting at my work, people shot. in the office waiting for cops. >> reporter: police rushed to the scene and helped evacuate the survivors. >> relax. i'll take a bullet before you
do, that's for damn sure. >> reporter: the shooters already fled in a black suv rental. hours later police went into farook's home in the neighboring city of redlands with a search warrant. as police approach they saw that black suv on the move slowly at first then it sped away. a police chase ensued as the suv raced back towards san bernardino. with his wife behind the wheel, farook unloaded 76 rounds at officers. 23 officers returned 380 rounds back at the vehicle. when the suv came to a halt, it was riddled with bullet holes, both were killed, two officers injured. >> on their body and in the vehicle they had over 1,400 .223 caliber rounds available to them. and they had over 200 .9 millimeter rounds on their persons as well. >> reporter: police later discovered a breathtaking arsenal in the suspects' home. >> there were 12 pipe bomb type
devices found. there were another 2,000 .9 millimeter rounds found at that house. >> reporter: back at the shooting scene police found evidence of sophisticated plans. >> there was three pipe bombs attached together, somehow attached to this remote control car, and it was designed that the remote control device would somehow trigger or set that device off. we don't know if they attempted to do that and it failed or what the story is. >> reporter: investigators believe farook met his wife, tashfeen malik, on a trip to saudi arabia in 2013. born in pakistan, she eventually came to the united states on a fiancee visa. despite his apparent radicalization, authorities haven't ruled out whether workplace grievances played a part in the rampage. and what we've also learned at this hour, wolf, from law enforcement officials is that that trip that syed farook took to saudi arabia was in 2014. it was a nine-day trip. what transpired there, if there was any connection to this that
is simply unknown at this point in time, wolf. >> it's part of this huge investigation. poppy, thanks very much. let's bring in our experts. cnn security and intelligence analyst bob baer, former cia operative, cnn national security analyst peter bergen, former fbi assistant director tom fuentes and our justice reporter evan perez. what's intriguing, peter, and you've done a lot of work on this, these improvised bombs, these explosive devices that they found in the car at the site and maybe a dozen in that home. here's the question, could they have been built based on those recipes, those instructions in the al qaeda magazine out there, one of those articles entitled how to build a bomb in the kitchen of your mom. >> inspire magazine showed up in a lot of cases. boston marathon bomber used that magazine to help build that bomb. it wasn't the only source they used. we don't know if this couple downloaded inspire magazine, but in pretty much every jihadi terror case we've seen both that
magazine and also an wwar awlak >> how much damage could these explosive devices if used and built properly and exploded, how much damage could they have done? >> could do a lot of damage in a small room where the bomb would be contained you could kill a couple dozen people in a room that size. in a large auditorium where the explosion might dissipate into the air more, maybe fewer, but we don't know how much powder and whether there was shrapnel embedded in those bombs either. we don't know the size of the weapon. >> evan, you've been doing a lot of reporting. your law enforcement sources are telling you that farook was in touch, was radicalized with international terrorism suspects or subjects. what are you learning? >> well, they don't know much yet about those contacts, wolf. they're still trying to figure out exactly what those mean. they may turn out to be really meaningless in this investigation. certainly did not mean any conclusions that that is what directs this towards terrorism or workplace violence situation.
certainly i think important to note that in talking to people last night, for instance, once they came across and once they were looking at this device, the device with three improvised explosives tied together, it contained black powder and it was rigged with remote control car, this is something that really kind of gave them pause and started turning this direction -- this investigation into a sort of new phase because it really gave them the concern that there was something more to this. and certainly when they found this rudimentary bomb lab in the house, again, with components to make further device -- more devices. again, pointed them in a direction that they thought, okay, this is not just workplace violence. so right now the going theory is that perhaps this might be a hybrid where someone has a beef at work but also has some motivations that may be explained -- >> but the enormous fear the fbi has is that these two individuals were not necessarily acting alone. someone was training them, how to build these bombs, how to use
these weapons and may be at large right now. >> right. and the devices are rudimentary. they're not very sophisticated. however, they had to have learned how to make them. that's the question is where that knowledge came from. >> bob, evan as you heard is reporting that they were in touch, at least farook, was in touch with some terrorism suspects out there. the fbi had already been investigating those suspects, not necessarily farook himself. walk us through how they would try to find out who these individuals are and what if any role they may have had in this massacre in san bernardino. >> well, they're going to be combing through the metadata, wolf. after an event like this that me metadata is going to mean a lot. they're going to look at families in saudi arabia and pakistan. once you assemble this stuff you get a pretty good picture. i think at this point, you know, the preponderance of the evidence makes this look like terrorism rather than
workplace -- you don't make pipe bombs and that many and accrue that much ammunition unless you plan to go to war against this country. and i think that that metadata we'll have to wait to see what it says, but it's going to be telling. >> what's unusual in this case, peter and you've studied terrorism for a long time, yes, there are male terrorists and female terrorists, but a husband and wife team going into a center like this and killing all these people together, that's pretty unusual. >> it is. of course it has a great advantage. bob was referring to phone metadata. a couple don't have to make phone calls to conspire or e-mail each other, so a very secure group. but we have seen male and female teams of suicide bombers go from europe into iraq. it's not unprecedented. it is quite unusual certainly in this country. >> very unusual indeed. guys, i want you to standby. we're getting more information. we'll take a quick break. we'll continue to follow the late breaking developments right after this.
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we're following the breaking news in the investigation of the mass shooting in san bernardino, california, that left 14 people dead, 21 people injured. the killers are husband and wife. they died in a shootout with police. investigators report finding stockpiles of ammunition and bombs at the couple's home. we're back with our experts. bob baer, does it seem unusual that they would leave a 6-month-old behind in all of this? they left that 6-month-old baby with the grandmother. what does that tell you about the wife's role in all of this? >> wolf, what this tells me unless proven otherwise is these
two were intending to die. they were looking to become martyrs. you simply don't take a mother with a 6-month-old baby and go out and shoot it out with the police in the united states. you know you're going to die. so i think they were preparing for their end. you know, i can assume they were going to make this one hit and move on to the next one, or even try to detonate that ied that they'd left in the conference center. i don't know at that point, but clearly these people were prepared to sacrifice their lives. for whatever cause they believed in. again, i think it was more than workplace violence. >> tom fuentes, farook's father says his son was religious, but he is stunned by what has happened. does it surprise you that apparently no one knew what was going on inside that house? that it was a bomb factory, if you will. they were building a dozen bombs there. neighbors may not have known anything. family members, relatives didn't know anything. no one reported anything to law
enforcement. >> just because he says it doesn't make it true. you know, he could be lying. he could be in denial. he could be, you know, any number of things about not knowing whether his son was religious or not religious or over the top extremist. so i don't put a lot of faith in what family members say immediately after an event like this. >> or friends or close friends -- >> yeah, all of that. >> normally in a situation like this neighbors come, oh, he's a nice guy, never any trouble. very quiet. very nice. you hear that kind of stuff. usually all the time, right, evan? >> exactly. and one of the things that a trend that the fbi's been looking at developing, wolf, has been the idea that a lot of people who radicalize tend to, you know, there's now a much more shorter period between the time of radicalization and the time that they might try to do something. used to be a longer period of radicalization. we saw in a couple of the paris attackers that that was the case. the concern is that it makes it so much harder to detect when somebody is about to do something. especially somebody with a clean
background like these two people. >> peter, does it have the fingerprints if in fact it is radical islamic jihad, if you will, does it have the fingerprints of isis, al qaeda, aqap, some other terrorist group? what would be the indication in your mind? >> since 9/11 we have seen no attacks in this country by people associated with a formal terrorist organization. so i doubt very much, maybe that it was directed by isis or any other group. it might be inspired. that's perfectly plausible. these people probably like school shooters look at other school shootings to learn how to do things? these people sdtudied the "charlie hebdo" attacks based on the gear and tactics they took. does that mean they're part of a formal terrorist organization? not in this country. >> but what about that, bob baer, does it seem like domestically a lone individual, a lone wolf who's just been
radicalized online, if you will, social media? >> well, wolf, what bothers me about is their familiarity with weapons. i mean, it's very, very -- you have to cross the threshold to shoot people first of all and to get away before the police respond and start to move onto another objective, whichever that was. and for them to be shooting out the car at the police and suggests some sort of training or radicalization. but i agree with peter there's no evidence thus far this was directed by isis or al qaeda. there's no claims for it. and i also don't like that they were using pipe bombs. that is sort of the worst explosive you can -- they rarely go off. they're unreliable. and clearly the command detonated bomb was wasted in their minds. and so i think these were almost want-to-bes, self-recruited, maybe inspired as peter said by
somebody in the middle east. but so far there's no indication this was directed from an organized group. >> go ahead, evan. >> one of the great revelations in the terrorism game in the last few years has been this idea that you can do this self-directed, do it yourself, diy type terrorism attack. and that's the kind of thing we're seeing. it's becoming especially because they seem to inspire each other, as peter was just referring to. and i think it's an innovation that makes it harder and harder -- >> isis has said on social media many times if you can't come to iraq and syria to kill the infid infidel, kill them at home. do whatever you can, use a bomb, gun, drive a car, use a knife, whatever you can. they've said that repeatedly. guys, standby. we're getting some new information about the dramatic police shooting that left both the assailants dead. more breaking news right after this.
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the breaking news this hour. disturbing new details about the husband and wife who killed 14 people in that mass shooting in san bernardino, california. sources now telling cnn that syed farook had communicated with known overseas terror suspects and had apparently been radicalized. cnn's brian todd is joining us. he has more on the shootout with police that killed both farook d his wife. brian, this all played out almost exactly 24 hours ago.
>> wolf, it was a very dramatic sequence. much of it witnessed on live tv. we've got new information tonight from law enforcement officials on how the car chase and the standoff unfolded. the exchanges of gunfire along the route and at the final scene right here. the key question tonight, were the killers on their way to another attack? syed farook and tashfeen malik had driven quickly from the shooting scene in a black suv. about ten miles away police are already at their home in redlands when the killers drive by in their ford expedition. the suv slows there and speeds away. a police car gives chase. the assailants toss what appear to be pipe bombs from the vehicle during the chase, but they don't explode. authorities say while malik is firing her husband opens fire from the getaway car. it's not clear if officers fire back from the pursuit. one s.w.a.t. team supervisor says they often try to avoid that. >> there may have been rounds
fired at the vehicle, possibly in an effort to stop it. but also to stop the suspect from spraying bullets at the police and the public. >> reporter: dramatic amateur video from a local resident captures the danger of the chase as it approaches the intersection of east san bernardino boulevard and shedden drive. >> oh, [ bleep ]. holy [ bleep ]. shots rang out. >> near that intersection the suspect's suv stops. then a frantic exchange of gunfire. >> oh, my gosh. >> the suspects are believed to have fired about rifle rounds at the officers at the termination of the pursuit. >> reporter: police fire nearly 400 rounds back. officials say he and his wife are killed there. at one point there appears to be a body a couple lanes from a vehicle. police are captured on the dispatch radio calling it in. they believe they got two male suspects. >> san bernardino and shedden,
one guy down and one in the back of the car and we have the bear cat. >> reporter: we later learned two officers are injured in the stand off. >> we need medical aid. >> reporter: typical of the confusion in these situations, police believe they have a third suspect on the run and fan out in the neighborhood. >> last seen in the ally way. >> you have information coming in from anybody in the neighborhood, phone calls coming in, things are being reported. >> reporter: there turns out to be no third suspect, armored bear cat vehicles sandwich the black suv and officers move in cautiously to make sure it's not booby trapped. now two law enforcement experts we spoke to, both of them former police commanders believe the responding officers did a good job during the chase and stand off making sure no civilians were hit in cross fire and believe the police intervention here saved lives. both of them believe the assail
wa -- assailants were on their way to attack somewhere else. they were equipped with enough firepower to continue. >> during the foot chase in the neighborhood where the standoff ended, while they didn't find a third suspect, police ended up making an arrest. explain what happened. >> they detained one man seen running away in the southern direction after the shootout. authorities determined he had nothing to do with the mass shooting but had a misdemeanor warrant out for his arrest. he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. >> brian, thanks very much. let's get more on what is going on with the former fbi assistant director tom fuentes and art roderick out there in san bernardino. did the police do everything they should have done yesterday? >> reporter: absolutely. the usual response time in these incidents is seven to 12 minutes and they were there in four minutes. having said that, the two
suspects obviously were there for a shorter period of time because they got away but only got away for a few miles and that's the big question we've been mulling over the past couple days is what were they going to do, and i think everybody seems to agree that they were going to hit another target or possibly come back and hit that same area again where the first responders setting up the command post in the triage area. >> tom, this happened in a pretty large city, city of about 200,000 people and there were fbi, atf, they had some pretty sophisticated military-type vehicles. what if this were to happen in a smaller town? would the local law enforcement be prepared? >> good possibility they would not, wolf. in an area like that they would have been out gunned. military-type vehicles said should only be in big departments. something like this can happen anywhere any time and generally the police are usually out
gunned in most of these situations. >> art, what's the most important lesson law enforcement need to take away from the mass murder in san bernardino? >> i think there is two things. obviously, the quicker you can get to the situations, the quicker you can take control and get information but law enforcement has to be prepared for simultaneous strikes and for the same individuals to come back to the same area they hit to hit first responders coming into the danger zone. >> art, i want you to stand by, please, tom fuentes stand by. there is more breaking news coming into "the situation room" including new clues about the killers' possible ties to terror. was the gunman radicalized online?
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planning to strike and did they act alone? inside the standoff. dramatic details about the slaughter, the escape and the shootout with police. did authorities miss clues this kind of an attack was in the works? we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're "the situation room." >> this is cnn breaking news. the breaking news tonight, new signs the married couple behind a shooting massacre in california may have had ties to terrorists. 24 hours after police killed syed farook and tashfeen malik, police say farook was radic radicalized and was investigated by the fbi. they may have been a factor in the attack.
investigators found a dozen additional pipe bombs with a huge hall of ammunition but say they still don't know why the pair walked into a holiday party at farook's workplace and opened fire. hundreds of terrified workers escaped the deadliest gun massacre since sandy hook and tonight, police say the death toll stands at 14 while the number of wounded has climbed to 21. congressman will hurd will tell us what he's learning, a former cia officer. our correspondents and analysts are standing by to cover the breaking story for us. up first, let's go to our justice correspondent pamela brown in san bernardino for us with more on the investigation. pamela, what are you learning? >> reporter: we know now, wolf, the fbi is investigating this and they are looking at a number of working theories right now trying to figure out whether the gunman and his wife were radicalized or whether this was
simply a workplace dispute or blend of the two. that's what investigators are working on. phone communications reveal syed farook had been in touch with fbi terrorism suspects but according to officials they were not considered high priority. >> he was not on the radar scene of our agency prior to yesterday. >> reporter: law enforcement officials say farook's behavior wednesday raised concerns with at least one witness. >> we had initial information he left under some sort of duress or as if he was angry and we had somebody disappeared. >> reporter: he and his wife returned dressed in black, tactical gear and heavily articleed to launch the attack. patrick shared a cubical with farook and washing his hands in the restroom.
>> i thought somebody bobby trapped the towel dispenser and i look back in the mirror and i could see i was bleeding in my temple, my nose and there is other little fragments that hit me all over the place. >> reporter: the couple slipped out of the door into a black ford suv they rented locally. one reason investigators believe this might have been more than just a workplace dispute is the cash of explosives and ammunition they found. officials say it's clear there was planning before the attack. >> if you look at the amount of obvious preplanning that went in, the amount of armaments he had, the weapons and ammunition, there was obviously a mission here. we know that. we do not know why. >> reporter: tonight, investigators are scrutinizing farook's overseas travel. he traveled to saudi arabia in 2013 and officials believe then he met his wife a native of pakistan that came to the united states in july of 2014 and
became a resident. farook was born in illinois and an online dating profile says he's from quote a religious and modern family and enjoys traveling and hanging out in the backyard doing target practice with younger sister and end froms. farook's family say they are stunned. >> i have no idea why would he do that, why would he do something like this? i have absolutely no idea. i'm in shock myself. >> reporter: and we've learned from officials the two were not on the fbi's radar, any watch list and that is in part why it's taking awhile to get information because they have to build, piece together their lives as one official said, the fbi will essentially rip apart their lives, put everything together. right now they are going through the electronics in the home, the car and elsewhere and so far i'm told at this early stage in the investigation there is no evidence to indicate a clear cut motive at this stage. wolf? >> pamela brown, thanks very much. our chief national security
correspondent jim sciutto is working a source and learning more about farook's radicalization and former travel. >> let's talk about communication. you look at communication and foreign travel for clues. in that communication they know he was in touch with known terror subjects overseas and at home. they are not talking about senior leaders in isis or recruiters but simple thiizee sympathizers. so that by itself does not mean you're going to become a terrorist but we know when you look at patterns of the attacks that it is found thas where these people often meet and find contacts and often where they are radicalized. that's why that's an important clue. let's talk about foreign travel. another thing you look at. he went to saudi arabia and as pam mentioned not just once in 2013 but again in 2014 and we know they went to pakistan, as well. you spoke to investigators involved in the case, travel to any one of those countries but
itself doesn't necessarily mean anything. he had family in pakistan. we know he went to the hodge in saudi arabia and very well may have met his wife, soon to be wife on the second trip but after an attack like this, they are looking to see if there is anything significant. who did he meet while over there? again, all these are clues at this point. there is not a definitive motive but they become more important after the fact and particularly after the contact he had with known jihadi sympathizers. >> they are looking at all the leads. there will be a huge investigation to see if there are others at large, part of the plot or if the two acted strikely by themselves. thanks very much. joining us now is a leading member on the house homeland security committee, will heard is joining us and former cia officer. congressman, thanks for coming in. i know you've been briefed on what is going on. i understand there are probably stuff you can't tell us but you agree with the reporting we have
that this syed farook was apparently radicalized either by travels to saudi arabia or pakistan or online? >> the initial evidence seems to suggest that's exactly the case. this is one of the issues law enforcement is worried about is that lone wolf not on anyone's radar that gets radicalized somewhere whether online or in travel and this is one of the more difficult areas for law enforcement to tackle. they will monitor and look through every piece of information they can find to use this to see if there are other folks like this gentleman, this person, that they can find and try to stop. >> he was a killer. i wouldn't call him a gentleman, of usually killed 14 people. he injured together with his wife 21 people. but does it look like if he was radicalized let's say online, does it look like it was isis inspired, al qaeda inspired because they are both pretty
active in social media. >> i don't think there is enough information to point direction to one of those two groups but when you look at this is the techniques and procedures that al qaeda uses that isis uses, isis' ability to leverage social media to radicalize someone even though they never stepped food in syria or iraq is unprecedented and this is -- we got to counter that narrative and address isis' ability to leverage that social media. >> what is stunning is the arsenal that this husband and wife team put together, the weapons, the rounds of ammunition, the bombs, the imp viced explosives that they were developing inside that home in redlands next to san bernardino, what does that say? >> he's been planning this and this has been going on for a very long time and he had a purpose and it's hard for us to understand a sick mind like this that someone would walk in on two co-workers and kill them and murder them in cold blood.
it's unbelievable and we got to make sure we're learning everything we can from this. i know law enforcement and intelligence agencies are working around the clock trying to find clues they can use to see if there are other things like this going on and trying to stop it. >> stand by. we'll continue our conversation. much more with will hurd. more on the breaking news right after this. if yand you're talking toevere rheumyour rheumatologiste me, about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,
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we're following breaking news on the california shooting massacre, the married couple behind the attack. officials tell cnn the husband syed farook was radicalized. a former cia officer with us, congressman, stand by. we're getting more breaking news coming into "the situation room." i want to go to our terrorism analyst paul cruickshank. you have new information about another isis plot in europe. what are you learning? >> wolf, this comes from a senior terrorism official that tells me there is specific intelligence obtained by european security agencies that
isis, isis in syria and iraq is aiming to hit the united kingdom next. the intelligence suggesting that british isis operatives in syria and iraq have been tasked to return to the u.k. to launch an attack against the united kingdom and these concerns have been compounded by the vote yet in the british house of commons authorizing british air strikes for the first time against isis in syria. they are treating this very, very seriously, indeed. not clear how imminent this threat is, but it comes after the fact that in mid november a british isis fighter ian davis was arrested in turkey and the turks and cnn confirmed the turks believe he was on the way back to europe with attack plans from the isis leadership in
syria and iraq. incidentally, davis being an associate of jihadi john. real concern about the threat to the united kingdom, more than 700 british extremists have traveled to syria and iraq. about half that number believed to have come back. so of concern in europe particularly in the u.k. now that we saw in paris, an attack like that could play out again perhaps in the united kingdom in the week ahead, wolf. >> jihadi john killed in a drone strike. you're getting information about the paris terrorist still at large, the most wanted man in europe now. what are you learning? >> what we're hearing is the trail for salah abdeslam, the eight attacker, so-called eighth attacker in paris has gone
completely gold and in fact has been cold since the day after the attack. the last european security agencies know about his whereabouts is when he was dropped off by a friend. since then the trail has gone cold. but i was told that they now believe that he essentially chickened out of blowing himself up in paris. he panicked and when he called his friends in brussels to pick him up in the middle of the night after the attacks, he was panicking and freaking out and nervous and so it appears that he backed out of a plan to become a suicide bomber. obviously, still participated overall in that attack but backed out of a plan to become a suicide bomber. they feel he may be persona non grata. he may not they think be welcomed back by the terrorist organization, wolf. >> interesting stuff. let's see what happens. thanks very much for that. let's get back to congressman
will hurd, a member of the house home land security committee. the threats to the u.k. now because, maybe because of the vote in british house of commons to support british air strikes against isis targets in syria, you take that seriously? >> you should always take it seriously. if intelligence are saying it's a credible threat, it's a credible threat. european allies sharing information amongst each other and sitting on a task force and looking and one thing we found out is european partners was shot sharing information on known bad guys among each other. we are end issiare sending tenss of names to partners and they weren't checking that information against known travelers. >> the concern americans have right now what happen in san bernardino, 14 people killed, 21 people injured in this clearly a terror attack and we don't know the specific motivation but clearly a terror attack follows what happened in paris and
follows these concerns going around the world and people are really worried especially about copy cats and others who may be inspired by this isis or al qaeda social media campaign. >> no, you're absolutely right and this is a problem we need to do everything we can to stop it. these are symptoms of a larger problem. that's isis being able to operate in syria and iraq. we're not doing enough to stop them there. we don't have enough aggressive intelligence collection on the ground to learn more about the plans and intentions of these groups and learn more about the leadership of these groups and what they are trying to do in europe. >> these two terrorists, sy syed farook and his wife tashfeen malik, they had thousands of bombs and making bombs in their apartment but apparently were not on a terror watch list or fbi radar or anything like that. is that a failure? >> can't tell yet or not. we got to learn a little more
who they are, what have they been doing and to compare that to other information we have and have been collecting over the last 14 years since the attacks in new york city, so there's a lot of information that needs to be analyzed to make sure this doesn't happen again and if there were loop hoholes or something we miss, how do we fix that? >> the secretary of homeland security briefs all the time. are these individuals who are out there that could be radicalized and not hard to buy ammunition and get weapons and potentially build a bomb. they can go to the inspire magazine, which has articles all the time how to build a bomb in the kitchen of your mom. >> you're right and this is a fear for all law enforcement intelligence agencies and one thing we need to be doing is countering the messages of groups like isis, how they are leveraging social media. isis has four social media campaigns a day and leveraging this into 49 different languages
and dialects and hitting tens of millions of people and we got to be stopping that and working with non-government organizations with our partners in europe, with partners like egypt and jordan and the uae in order to counter that narrative. >> do you have any clue who these two individuals may have been in contact with, foreign terrorists, if you will whether through social media, phone, whatever, texting? >> i'm not aware of that right now but that is definitely something that will be coming to light and to see who that person was and was that individual in touch with other americans and europeans and figure out how to find them. >> you spent nine years in the cia. what can the cia do now to keep the american people safe? >> running more intelligence operations in syria, iraq against leadership of isis to better understand the plots, not only in that region but europe in and the united states. >> do you think they are up to the task? seems like the intelligence
isn't necessarily perfect. >> intelligence is never perfect but the men and women in the cia want to do this and have their hands untied and i think this is part of a political leadership decision to say hey, we're going to double down in this area. we're going to flood the zone. we're going to make sure we have the folks on the ground and collect information we need because we can collect the information there to keep us safe here on our own shores. >> congressman will hurd of texas, thanks for coming in. >> thanks. we're getting more breaking news into the slaughter in san bernardi bernardino. terrorism experts are digging for information and if the gunman syed farook was radicalized, why wasn't he on the radar? we have an analysis of that.
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tonight an active crime scene in california at the home of the husband and wife killers behind a shooting massacre. sources tell cnn, the husband syed farook was radicalized and under investigation by the fbi. local newspapers drive home the horror and outrage across the state and nation. 14 people were killed, the number of wounded has climbed to 21. cnn's dan simon is joining us now from san bernardino. dan, we learned a lot more from
police today about the shooting and the killers. update our viewers. >> reporter: well, wolf, as we've been reporting authorities found an incredible amount of ammunition in that suv. when you add it up, the bullets, the bombs, all that weaponry investigators say it's clear thissed a be ed had been in the sometime. tonight there is still no clear motive for the shooting but authorities believe this was a carefully staged attack. >> there appears to be a degree of planning that went into this. nobody just gets upset at a party, goes home and puts together that kind of elaborate scre scheme to come back and do that. >> reporter: inside the home being rented, investigators found 12 pipe bombs and other bomb making material and 5,000 rounds of ammunition, thumb drives, cell phones and computers are being analyzed and they found 160 oc0 rounds of ammunition inside the suv.
the man renting the house says this comes as a complete shock. >> they were very quiet people. >> reporter: the cold-blooded attack was anything but. it began wednesday when 28-year-old syed farook abruptly left a work party and came back with his 27-year-old wife around 11:00 a.m. the couple dressed in black tactical gear and fired ar-15 rifles into this crowd of people, spraying as many as 75 rounds, killing 14 people and wounding 211 oth 1 rounds, killing 14 people and wounding 211 oth1 others. >> possible active shooter. male in black clothing. >> reporter: before leaving the scene, farook and his wife left a pipe bomb in the building rigged to a remote in a get away vehicle, black suv. after the attack, people stream outside hands raised as police are unsure if the attackers are still on the grounds. but tips from witnesses led investigators to this house. >> both suspects were listed on
the rental agreement for the property. >> oh [ bleep ]. >> reporter: as authorities approached a black suv sped by and shootout ensued and police littered the suv with bullets. authorities believe the couple fired 76 rounds at police as 21 officers unloaded 380 rounds. >> we have the suspect vehicle stopped. we'll go ahead and extract him. >> right now we have one down outside the car, one down inside the car. >> reporter: both attackers were killed at the scene. well the husband and wife did not leave a note. there is no manifest or nothing of that nature. that might make it more difficult. you could have had double or triple the amount of victims or maybe a separate attack all together. wolf? >> dan simon joining us from san bernardino. thank you. the fbi is taking the lead in the investigation into the shooting rampage.
let's go back to our justice correspondent pamela brown in san bernardino tonight. walk us through the investigation, pamela. what are authorities doing and looking for right now? >> reporter: well, i can tell you at this stage in the investigation the fbi has already interviewed several associates of both syed farook and his wife. they have spoken to family members, associates, anyone they may have known at the mosque. i'm told there is no indication to believe they isn't cooperating and the information gleamed doesn't lead authorities to a clear cut motive. in addition to what has been taken from their electronics found in the home as well as the car and other places i'm told, at this stage investigators are still a bit puzzled, wolf, as to what this is, how to label it. is it terrorism or was it a workplace dispute or a blend of the two. that's what officials are looking at, whether this was a hybrid.
they have been looking into whether syed farook may have been radicalized based on the fact he had a cash of weapons at the home, bombs that created this bomb lab and he was in touch with terrorism subjects investigated with the fbi and i'm told those connections were tenuous and over the course of several years that these were not high priority terrorism subjects and had there been a lot of communication, that syed farook would be on the most wanted list and there would be a terrorism case on him. we're told officials didn't know much about these two. they weren't on the radar and that's part of the reason they are getting information, piece together the lives. >> i'm sure they are doing that right now as we speak. pamela, thank you. let's bring in our justice reporter evan perez, terrorism analyst paul cruickshank and bob
baer. evan, you've been doing a lot of reporting. what's the latest information on the two shooters and possible motivation? >> the fact that they didn't leave any kind of manifesto and looked in the bag they left behind at the scene of the first shooting and looked in the suv where the shootout occurred where they died and found nothing. absolutely nothing left behind so now the work of actually trying to piece together what motivated this is actually now just beginning and it is really as pamela just describe d is a puzzle. these people perhaps had radicalization in their recent background, but at the same time, the indications of what actually occurred, some altercation or dispute at the scene, again, indicates workplace so perhaps what they are looking at is a hybrid event
and that's one of the working theories. >> sometimes suicide bombers leave videos behind -- >> nothing like that is found. >> nothings been found yet. let's see if anything emerges. three explosive devices were found, pipe bombs a dozen or so found in the home they were renting. what does this tell you how long they were planning to do snmg how long does it take to build these imp vised explosive devices? >> if we look overall they spent time at this they acquired semiautomatsem semiautomatic pistols. they made these bombs that are dangerous to make. a spark can set them off. they took their type. they of usually didn't blow their garage up but at the same time these pipe bombs are not very efficient and, you know, if they really wanted to cause damage and they had firm contacts with these groups in the middle east they would have gone to tatp, bombs which are --
do go off and very dangerous to make and you got to know what you're doing and practice it. so the more evidence i see, the more i believe these guys were self-radicalized. the visit to saudi arabia no doubt they were in touch with people, enemies to this country. they have some ideas there but, you know, so far we've seen nothing to suggest direction, just inspiration from the middle east and i still don't buy the workplace violence. there is too much preparation in this, seriously. this would be way out of the norm for workplace violence. >> but it could be a hybrid, right? >> well, a lot of these people, they pick people that are close to them and it's truly shocking because no doubt farook befriended some of these people and the fact they crossed the line of slaughtering people and slaughtering people they knew in
their fa families, this is outrageous but the purpose of these people is to shock us. hit the people closest to you that you are supposedly friends at. this wouldn't be out of the norm. >> phil, was there some sort of intelligence blind spot if in fact, this guy, 28-year-old syed rizwan farook, if he was monitored by the fbi but no one was checking him. was there a failure here? >> couple questions i would be asking on the inside. a numbers game. let's say the fbi director talked about 9 oc9 -- 900 peopl and they are talking to 45 others. that's a lot. the reason i want more detail i'd have a couple questions, one, who are they talking to, people involved in high-end
cases, fundraising lower on the list. number two did the content on the vconversations end in violence? before i say contact with a terrorist mean something, i want to know who they are talking to. >> i covered a lot of terrorism incidents over the years, paul, and you study this. this is your main focus. a husband and wife terror team, how unusual is that? >> unusual but not unprecedented. 2005 a husband and wife team from belgium to iraq blew themselves up on the same day the woman was a catholic convert in november of 2005. also, around that same time a decade ago there was a husband and wife team that set off to assassinate a touch legislator, part of the so-called group in holland. he had a machine gun and she tail along. so we have seen this before. we've seen it from people living in the west, as well.
>> here is something else that's unusual, correct me if i'm wrong, the fact that this couple drops off their 6 month old baby with the grandmother before they go on a killing spree. what does that say? >> it suggestions there was something premeditated but the best explanation is this a hybrid motivation because after all they could have gone and attacked a shopping mall or a sport stadium or something like that and killed a lot more people but he chose to attack colleagues, people he knew. we've seen this hybrid motivation in a string of recent attacks that beheading in oklahoma where he had got fired, noland an extremist got fired and went and beheaded a female co-worker in oklahoma and in france, an individual who also had problems with his moss and decided he would behead him and
take a selfie and send it to isis in syria. >> one of the first ever isis inspired cases in the united states involved someone with a mix of isis ideology mixed with black power and that kind of thing. so there's never really a lot of these don't turn out to be clean-cut as much as we would like them to be to explain it. there is a lot going on in people's minds that sometimes don't fit into net boxes. >> can we assume the husband the the mastermind and the wife was going along with it or were they equal motivation? >> as soon as you get one person in the conspiracy, you got to assume they are playing off each other. they are not insane. there is some level of rationization and sitting saying whether radicalization or workplace violence, they are talking to each other in the evening saying i'm railly angry about something going on. do you think what we're going to do is appropriate?
in this case maybe two people playing off each other who might individual not do something but together say this is appropriate. let's go. >> because bob, i guess the -- some people suggested this, the man, the husband, syed farook was born in the united states and lived in the u.s. his whole life and married tashfeen malik. there is some suspicion she radicalized him. do you buy that? >> that was my first thought. she came from the region and may have had family members that died in a drone strike or something, very easy to happen and come with firm set ideas and arrives and recruits this young man. you know, and takes him over to the side and says we have to use violence to seek justice in the
middle east. it's very easy this could happen but again, i don't like his visits to saudi arabia, bombers. the pakistans are not helpful and don't want to admit they are sending terrorists to this country. on the other hand, she knew how to use a gun and didn't panic at the last minute and any time you hand somebody an assault rifle and counsel on them in following through, they have to be determined and convinced and have to know something about weapons and where did she get that training? >> she was the driver also in the get away suv. he was the passer. he was trying to kill the police officers. just ahead, the active investigation into the rampage continues. tonight we'll go back live to
san bernardino. new information coming in and the husband and wife assailants and details emerging about them tonight. a penguin loaded a toy car onto a racetrack. zoom! it took off... ...going faster and faster, and twisting and turning, until finally, it stopped... ...right in our driveway. but dad, penguins live in the south pole. the lexus december to remember sales event is going on now, with some of the most magical deals of the year. this is the pursuit of perfection. but the more you learn aboutnd your coverage,t. the more gaps you might find. like how you thought you were covered for all this... when you're really only covered for this. hot dog? or how you may think you're covered for this... but not for this... whoa! no, no, oh , oh! ...or this... ...or this. ...or that...
syed rizwan farook did communicate with overseas radicalist and was radicalized. this remains a very active investigation. what's the latest you're hearing? >> absolutely an active investigation, wolf. it is remarkable what we've seen in the last 24 hours. a secret life recovered, this young couple in their 20s one neighbor seemed quote so normal, nothing out of the ordinary, the person that rented them the home said they were very timid. turns out they had what experts are calling a home bomb lab strewn with over 2,000 rounds of ammunition, 12 pipe bombs, a number, dozens and dozens of tools used to make potentially home made ieds or imp vised explosive devices. it's unbelievable the number of
them where i spent ten minutes from the scene, they carried this out all secretly. let me show you what investigators are doing today. they are still at the home in redlands california. they have robots in the home and are pulling things out of the garage. was that makeshift bomb lab in the garage, fbi agents pulling out what they can from there trying to determine how long they were planning, was anyone else helping them and the big question in terms of radicalization, when was the turning point? when did this couple turn and have this mission to carry out mass murder, wolf? >> lots of questions there coming up with answers but it's going to take time. thanks poppy. let's bring in jim sciutto. what more can you tell us about these shooters, the married couple that went ahead and killed all these people? >> in paris it took days to build the profile of the killers and today you're getting a fairly clear picture of who
those shooters were. syed farook was 28 years old and u.s. citizen and communicated with sympathizers before the attack. u.s. and sod daudi officials tee he traveled to pakistan and he met his wife, tashfeen malik, came here on a k 1 visa and got a green card later. they had a child a short time later. they drop that child off with the grandparent claiming they had a doctors appointment. wolf, as you look at the profile, these are things investigators look at, foreign travel and communication. each individually does not indicate anything conclusively and make this terrorism but together, those pictures, it creates a picture that makes that a credible path, a credible explanation for this. the foreign travel, they don't know what happened then but that fits a pattern of folks who have
carried out these attacks before and that communication with jihadi sympathizers online. as evan, pamela, all of us have been saying from the beginning talking to investigators, they are keeping open the possibility this is workplace possibility i workplace violence, that the trigger was both workplace violence or workplace grudge and the possible of jihadi terrorism. >> what really worries investigators, sayed farook became radicalized somehow. he was born in the u.s. >> you saw this in paris, a lot of people talked about the border. the paris attackers, many were europeans, right? >> french or belgium. we have more breaking news coming up. stay with us.
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we're following the breaking news on the shooting massacre in california. the search for a motive including a possible link to foreign terrorists. officials just released the names of the 14 people murdered, ranging in age from 26, the youngest, to 60 years old. the forensic psychiatrist is with us along with our law enforcement analyst tom fuentes and cedric alexander. how extensive was the planning for this attack? >> it must have been extensive enough to acquire the ammunition, the four weapons, the body armor, you know, the pipes, explosives going into the
pipe bombs, the detonators. so i would think at least, at least probably weeks or months at the minimum. >> lisa, the couple, they dropped off their 6-month-old child with the grandmother that morning. they had a getaway car. does it appear they were ready to try to escape or were they ready for suicide, if you will, for death? >> i presume that they were going to try to incur as much damage as they could so they were potentially planning their next stop and then that got interrupted. >> the mother, 27 years old, tashfeen malik, she was dropping off the child and knew she was going to die, walk us through how a mother could do that. >> this is an interesting point and something tom and i have talked about and we wonder if it really was his wife who may have radicalized him. and a woman who, in her own
mind, is justifying her anger, her rage, could say to herself in this rationalization that i'm giving up my baby for the cause. so that would be the very perverted, demented way of looking at it for her. >> cedric, you've studied this demented psychology as well behind the attack. how will they determine the dynamics between the husband and wife relationship, who perhaps convinced the other to do this? >> well, as they go back into this investigation, wolf, and more information that they gather, the more it's going to crystallize as to what may have occurred here. we're still operating under this theory that this may have been somewhat of a hybrid attack and that may or may not be true. but let's recognize something. it would take a certain level of a real sick pathology to get to the point to do that type of damage and decide that you're going to just end it all right there. i suspect, quite frankly -- and here's one thing that we have
not mentioned that we need to consider as well, too. how do we not know that these were sleeper cells ready to be activated? that is a real concern. was this an arranged marriage or was she doing her meeting with her in saudi, it's been reported already, were there plans going back as far as their marriage that would have led up to the attack that day? but here again, to your question, wolf, it is important to recognize, it takes a very disturbed and pathologically sick individual where they kick it all to the wind and make the type of attacks that they did and appear to go on, if it had not been interrupted, as has been stated, was going to go to another site and harm people. >> usually these kinds of mass murders, correct me if i'm wrong, it's the man who does it, not the woman, right?
>> absolutely. she was obviously trained. it sounds like she may very well, for those reasons, but i'd like to say one thing and that is, as we look at, is it hybrid or is it not, it may very well be in the moment of his intense anxiety about what he was doing that he might have been primed already. so something goes wrong at work so he decides to start there, maybe continues down the road. and let us not forget that for a lot of people, doing something like, this the secret life, the meetings, the planning, the plotting, it's very empowering so their aggression is something very exciting, it gives them a sense of manhood and people need to know that that's part of the substrate here. >> and potentially, tom, they could have done a lot more with the thousands of rounds of ammunition that they still have. >> if they were better trained, they could have killed many, many more, including the police officers later in the shootout and initially the people at the conference. >> and it doesn't include bombs
that they had built in their house as well. very, very chilling material. guys, thank very much. that's it for me. thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer. cnn's special coverage of the san bernardino shootings conditions right now with erin burnett "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, increasing evidence this evening that at least one of the san bernardino shooters may have been radicalized. law enforcement officials telling cnn tonight that syed farook along with his wife shot and killed 14 people at a holiday party had travelled to pakistan and saudi arabia. we are also learning that farook was in touch with people being investigated by the fbi for terrorism, communicating with them by phone and via social media. now, this comes as police say farook and his wife apparently were going to launch more attacks. they found at their home what police are now calling a bomb lab. cbs news just