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tv   CNN Newsroom With Carol Costello  CNN  December 4, 2015 6:00am-8:01am PST

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and good morning. i'm carol costello. reporting live from san bernardino, california. thank you so much for joining me. investigators are not willing to call it terrorism quite yet but new developments in southern california raise new questions about what drooef california couple to mass murder. law enforcement forces tell us farook appears to have been radicalized. more, he was in touch with more
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than one terrorism suspect the fbi was investigating and they may have been trying to cover their tracks, this married couple. inside their home, police find a computer with its hard drive missing and two smashed cell phones found near one of the crime scenes. also inside the homes thousands of rounds of ammunition and a dozen bombs and materials to make even more explosives. the photos obtained by cbs news also say the remote control car and unexploded bombs found at the site of the massacre. the family though is still in disbelief. >> i could never imagine my brother or my sister-in-law doing something like. this especially because they were happily married and a six month old daughter. it's mind boggling. >> we can't imagine the loss everybody has gone through. all the people injured and hurt badly. our thoughts and prayers are going out to them. >> we have a lot to cover this
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morning. but let's begin with the investigation. victor blackwell is in redlands outside the couple's home. what have you found out? >> reporter: it a peers the physical evidence here has been completed here. you can see over my shoulder the window and front door have been board up, effectively shutting down what's been described as the bomb-makie inine inine inin. now trying to get answers to the questions why. >> two smashed cell phones thought to belonged to them. also found a computer with a missing hard drive. investigators believe it may have been removed or destroyed potentially to cover their tracks. investigators issuing subpoenas to major service providers to
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try and retrieve information. >> if you look at the preplanning that went in, there was obviously a mission. we know that. we don't know why. it would be irresponsible and premature to call this terrorism. >> rizwan farook appears to be radicalized and has had contact with international terror suspects. the fbi has been cautious not to rule out any possible motives. >> it is possible this is terrorist related, but we don't know. it is also possible it is workplace related. >> 12 pipe bombs. hundreds of tools that could be used to make more bombs, and thousands of rounz of ammunition. these videos report to show explosive devices found at the home. >> we intercepted them before that happened obviously. >> overnight, one of the first police officers on the scene of
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the shooting describing it as an unprecedented tragedy in his career. >> it was unspeakable, the koornage that we were seeing, the number of people who were injured and unfortunately already dead. and the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe. >> hundreds gathering late thursday inside san manuel stadium in san bernardino to mourn. >>. ♪ god bless america >> as the names of each of the 14 victims were read aloud. >> so far no manifesto discovered but a law enforcement official tells cnn also the fbi has begun interviewing farook's family members and they are said to be cooperating. carol? >> victor, reporting from nearby from that redlands neighborhood where the couple lived.
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sources also tell us that farook appears to have been radicalized. but there are reports that point the blame elsewhere. so let's talk about that. buck sexton is a former cia intelligence analyst. and also retired sergeant who served 20 years with the apd. i'm going to cough. because frankly there is smoke in the air. and we don't know where it is coming from. i apologize. i want to play part of an interview from cbs this morning from a coworker who sat near farook the past five years in that county building behind me. let's listen. >> do you believe that he was radicalized? >> yes. by the wife. i think he married a terrorist. >> he married a terrorist?
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>> yes. >> so we don't know what he bases that on. but buck, what do you make of it? >> given how careful we're being about making any sweeping conclusions here or coming to any conclusions, i think honestly too cautious and careful in some ways when it comes to deciding this was terrorism. i i you could say you are 99% sure this was terrorism and you have this one individual who blames the wife. we would certainly need to know more than just his word here. but if you line this up on a sheet of what you would expect in kind of incident, if it was in fact jihadist terrorism, which i would say it is a 95 or 99% uncertainty at this point that it was. it would all be checked off. so that this would be one more addition i don't think is particularly meaningful one way or the other to get a better sense of how maybe this could have been caught by law enforcement. she passed a check. as, you know, they purchased the
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firearms legally. i'm not sure there is a lot we can take from who in the relationship was quicker to radicalize and we'll have to know more about their digital fingerprint to get that 100% certainty everybody seems to be bent on getting. >> police also found smashed cell phones in a garbage can near their home, and a computer hard drive that was missing. do those things points to terrorism as well. >> i have a different slant on that. and although they were obviously trying to hide what they were doing, i don't really blame the wife. and i don't view this as the terrorist, jihadist type of activity. i think it is a workplace issue. and i'm not really convinced that the wife was actually a willing participant. she's not here to tell us, right? and understanding the cultural difference, women don't run those households, so perhaps she was coerced or even forced to participant. we just don't know. >> they had all of that fire
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power with them. they had cover their faces. police they certain on to another mission. that wouldn't be just a workplace. >> that's speculation that they were on to another mission. and we don't know that. i believe if they wanted to act more damage they could have in that building. they were focused on people in that room that were coworkers. and they could have attacked others on their way in and out. and we know there was a significant amount of time between the time they were murdered or killed and the time they left that facility. they didn't hurt anyone after they left. so for me this seemed very christopher dorneresque with a twist. >> the brother-in-law interviewed on nbc this morning said pretty much the same thing. his brother was a bad thing and he had problems at work and it was workplace violence. >> that would seem to ignore many data points.
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for example when we're already going through the backgrounds of the individual. we were told for example in the first 24 hours one of them had appeared to have become more religious and may in fact had radicalized in the last year or two. when you also look at the preparations they made here for what would be called workplace violence would be extreme. and even beyond that the notion that a husband and wife team would be engaged in workplace olence would be something of a first. as i said are, if you are lining these up, this is a near certainty this is jihadist terrorism in my opinion. i know they are slow to say it because there are pressure at the top coming from people --. that is why there is so much foot dragging. that is why everybody is saying we can't find the motive. the motive to most i know who have worked in counterterrorism is obvious and clear at this point if we want to get to that last 1 or 5% certainty i can
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understand that. but i think at this point it should be treated as the terrorist act at least and that is how it's being investigated. >> thank you so much. in the meantime the attorneys for the families are speaking with cnn and questioning accounts of the massacre. they are doubting the accuracy of the information from police, including reports that farook was radicalized. >> i'm just telling you straight out that it doesn't -- it doesn't make sense. it looks like -- if somebody had military training or something, yes. but there was none of that. and this person was not aggressive. we sat with the fbi for three hours and they tried to identify some characteristics or some affiliations he might have had to could have led him to act in this way and they couldn't find anything. they were totally stumped. totally frustrated. >> okay. we're going to have much more from this interview coming your way in just about 20 minutes. we also have new details about
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the 14 people who were killed. victims like robert a.dams, who married his teenage sweetheart and cherished his 1-year-old daughter. and a mother of three who moved to the u.s. from iran to escape religious persecution. and yvette, she leaves behind her parents and three sisters. last night the president spoke about the victims. >> their loss is our loss too. for we are all one american family. we look out for each other. in good times and in bad. and they should know that all of us care about them this holiday season. they are in our thoughts. they are in our prayers. and we send them our love. >> dr. sanjay gupta joins me now.
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21 were also injured in that attack and you have been following their progress. >> a lot of families have been coming out of hospital, carol and i think just wanting to talk. i think it relieves some of their anxiety. i think it is cathartic in some way. and one of the family members gave me details about what happened to her. and describes her sort of lucky. which is a strange word to use in this context but take a listen to what he said. >> finished in the restroom just went going back towards the conference room at the moment got all the bullet was flying towards her. and she got -- she with a few other people hide inside the bathroom. four, five people together. and she realized her hands are bleeding and her stomach also got hit but not life-threatening. right hand was a little more serious. it went in and out. and the left was much less serious injury. so it is like a miracle.
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and two bullet came above her head and hit the wall. it is a miracle the way she survived. >> again, used the word "miracle." but she walked into the bathroom and came out and i guess the shooting had already started in the hallway before they went into the kompb conference room and she ducked back. also, all the doctors that went into the hospital, they hear what is happening and they just go. and this picture was just sort of remarkable. there are four or five doctors at every bed just waiting for the patients to come in. that was what it took to be prepared. and as a result in this hospital, arrowhead, six patients i think they are all going to do well, they are going to be discharged over the next several days. >> great sanjay. thank you for that. still to come in the newsroom. >> it doesn't matter what the name of your city is, you have
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police train for this kind of call, active shooter/multiple deaths. imagine being one of the first on the scene. i talked with the one of the men of the s.w.a.t. team. using military style weapons, including the bear cat. this type of equipment was heavily criticized but if not for it here, who knows? right after the shooting was happening a s.w.a.t. team was in the middle of a training exercise for a situation just like this. >> i think we were about an hour and a half into the training, just finishing our second
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scenario when we heard the radio on the real call. >> o when the real call came through, did you think this can't be -- >> it did seem very ironic. it almost seemed like it couldn't be true. you know, we're training this and it's actually occurring at the same time. but at the same time we all recognized it was a real call and just immediately switched modes and responded. >> so how long did it take you to get to the scene? >> gosh -- i don't. >> it was like 4:00, right? it was quick. >> we had a quick response. >> so as you entered the building, it had to be intense. >> it was very intense, you know. it's the scene of a tragedy. and you just witnessed a tragedy unfold. >> were there shots being fired as you entered the building. >> no. the shots had already -- they had already ceased by then. but it was a tragedy. in the same respect you understand there is a very real
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threat out there that is willing to co-harm to more people and the idea is to get to the threat. we have a tactical medic with us and they immediately went into a triage mode. he was the first there offering medical aid. and his experience i think probably saved some lives. >> we saw someone's cell phone video and we heard one police officer say, don't worry if anybody's going to be shot it is going to be me. >> i'll take the bullet for myself. >> who was that officer. >> >> i don't know. but that mentality carries through the law enforcement and that is the code that these officers live by. and that is what they are willing to do every day. >> take me through that process. you get into this bear cat. and what happens? >> we're responding to the scene. we trying to get there, we know an officer has been shot.
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we know it is obviously a highly critical -- or a critical incident in which more lives will be lost so we're trying to get the armored vehicle there as fast as we can, with the intention of being able to provide some level of safety to the officers taking the gunfire, or the citizens in the neighborhood. >> so as the bear cat pulled up to that suv, could you see into the vehicle and see what might have been inside the car. >> we could tell we had a suspect in the backseat. we could tell that the suspect was armed with a long rifle. later found to be an assault rifle. but we couldn't exactly see much more than that. >> they had 1400 assault rifle round, 200 handgun rounds. they had fired 76 shots at officers. officersed had returned fire. they had thrown what looked like pipe bombs out of the vehicle.
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stills you are approaching, even with the armored vehicle it had to be nerve wracking. >> it is nerve wracking but i mean who else is going to go up there? >> did you ever think this kind of thing would happen in san bernardino. >> i think we just live in an age where it doesn't matter what the name of your city, you have to be prepared to deal with it. fortunately the men of our department were trained to deal with this to the best of their ability and i think it was on full display yesterday. >> my thanks to lieutenant walker and sergeant harris and as great as that operation went, you know, they have prevented loss of life, more loss of life i should say. the day after the tragedy, lieutenant walker called all of the s.w.a.t. team members into a room and they sat down and went over what they did right, what i they did wrong, what they could do better and how they could be better prepared for the next time because no one believes
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that a next time won't come. still to come in the news room, attorneys for the family of the san bernardino shooter speak out the cnn. >> it just doesn't make sense for these two to be able to act like some kind of bonny and clyde or something. it is just ridiculous. >> we'll hear more from their attorneys next. came out today thousands of people to run the race for retirement. so we asked them... are you completely prepared for retirement? okay, mostly prepared? could you save 1% more of your income? it doesn't sound like much, but saving an additional 1% now, could make a big difference over time. i'm going to be even better about saving.
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welcome back. i'm carol costello reporting live from san bernardino, california. before we get into the shooting let's talk about something else. the opening bell moments away. after release of the strong november jobs report, u.s. government reporting 200 jobs added last month. and this is a big deal.
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the last key piece of economic data before the federal reserve decides whether or not to raise interest rates for the first time in almost a decade. christine romans is breaking down the numbers. >> it was another solid month of jobs growth. you can see 211,000 jobs created. what's interesting to me is the trajectory. october is 298,000. this is a number revised higher, which means the strongest job creation in a year. so this shows a trend of steady, consistent job growth. the seven year low for jobless rate. and when you look at job growth overall, you can see now for 2015 on average 210,000 new jobs every single month. last year was a strong year for job creation. so was this year. inside these numbers, wages. wages grew a little more strongly than we thought. that is good news. shows you an improving job
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market means people are getting more people in their paychecks. we'll to have to wait and see if the strength continues and people pick up more hours. >> what about that federal interest rate? >> i think it means the fed is going to raise interest rates because these sorts of numbers are showing health in the labor market, health in the economy. means the fed doesn't have to be at emergency interest rates. when rates finally rise it will probably effect everybody. home buyers, it will be higher mortgage rates. car buyers. higher loans. and the anybody with a variable interest rate on a credit card you are going to pay more too. >> live from new york. thank you.
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and good morning. i'm carol costello. live in san bernardino, california. a lot of disconnects and unknowns. those words from a lawyer representing the family of the san bernardino shooters. that same attorney questioning key facts about that day. cnn's chris cuomo is here. he talked with the lawyers and what did they tell you? >> well, the interview was surprising. to me. they don't represent the shooters, obviously they are dead. but they don't represent their interests as well. they say the family is in shock. they say the family didn't know. we don't have any reason to disbelieve that at this point. but they go farther. they question whether or not this is even terrorism and question whether or not this even happened the way we think it happened. >> where do you go with this in terms of how he explained how they go from someone they knew
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and love to someone who could do something so dmons rows. >> there is a lot of unknowns and a lot of things that quite frankly don't add up or seem implausible. i -- she was never involved in shooting. she's probably only about 90 pounds so it is unlikely she could even care a weapon or do any of this. from what i understand is they were handcuffed lying face down in this truck shot up. there is a lot of things that just don't make sense, you know. no one has ever seen syed with any of the things that they -- i mean, with some of the things they found on the scene, they haven't seen him with them. >> like what? >> the pipe bombs, for example. no one had ever seen him use or have anything like that. and it just doesn't make sense for these two to be able to act like some kind of bonny and
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collide or something. it is just ridiculous. it doesn't add up. the military skills to carry out something like this, really, frankly. >> well authorities go back and forth on whether or not this show's sophistication or lack of sophistication in terms of how it was carried out. are you saying you are not sure that they did this? >> i'm just telling you straight out that it doesn't make sense. it looks like, if somebody had military training or something, yes. but there was none of that. and this person was not aggressive. we sat with the fbi for three hours and they tried to identify some characteristics or some affiliations that he might have had that could have led him to act in this way and they couldn't find anything. they were totally stumped. totally frustrated. you know, in the media some have said that it may be work related like he was disgruntled in some way. but really everyone is clueless because there is nothing that could characterize him to act in
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this manner. >> to be clear does the family have any doubts as to whether or not there was him and his wife who did it? >> i think they have been accepting of the information as it comes out. they send their apologies and wishes and prayers to everybody who lost their lives and they have let that be known already. so i think the family has been accepting of everything that has come out through the media, through the police reports and they are very remorseful and they are very sad. they lost two family members of their own as well. >> i just want to make sure i'm hearing the same from you. >> i don't speak for family. i don't speak for their views. they are not actually deniers in any way. they are not actually affiliated in anyway. they were shocked. when they started to hear about them they were worried for the safety of syed. they thought he might have been getting attacked.
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they were completely shocked when they found out about it. they are not denying anything. i'm just telling you from the attorney's perspective, the facts don't make sense. >> that is the part i don't get. i know you are not here to plead the case for the people who did the killing, i hope. >> yeah i'm frustrated about -- >> the officers say they took fire from this suv. the people in the suv were him and her. that is kind of the end of the analysis of possibilities, right? >> as an attorney yourself you do also understand we have to wait for everything to come in. not just bits and parts of the factual basis. >> what could come in? give me a possibility? >> i don't know what could come in. but there is information not received yet. you haven't received everything yet. nobody has. >> it is just strikes me as kind of strange. really? like especially the younger attorney who said that it might not be them? is that what he was saying? >> i think you have to chalk
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this up to some lawyering. there is a lot of unknowns. the investigators are telling us to go slow as well. i know that is frustrating to people but that is what investigators say. a little of it is lawyering. investigators believe more may have been involved. they do not believe fewer may have been involved. the idea of the woman being handcuffed is simply irrelevant. she was certainly in the car. they were taking fire from the officers they were giving it to. that was what started it. i think what was going on is impact. the lawyering. they are in an impossible situation if what they are saying is true that they didn't know because it is going to be hard for so many to accept that. >> they represent the family of farook. and now people are suspicious of that. why did they lawyer up? >> right.
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>> well because they need to. because they are dealing with a federal investigation and you want to make sure your rights are secured as well. i do not think that should be seen by anybody as an admission of anything. >> cris cuomo thanks so much. still to come. donald trump tops his republican rivals again. can anything stop the trump momentum? is it our insightful strategies that make edward jones one of the country's biggest financial services firms? or 13,000 financial advisors who say thank you? it's why edward jones is the big company that doesn't act that way. while you're watching this, i'm hacking your company. grabbing your data.
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politics now. donald trump's dominance showing no sign of slowing down. a new cnn poll showing trump firmly in first place with a 20 point lead. ben carson, marco rubio and
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chris christie round out top five. jeb and carly aren't doing so well, tied for sixth. and trump reiterated his belief he'll make the presidency while criticizing lawmakers. >> we know where the democrats are coming from. but these republican politicians go to washington and they are going to do this. they are going to do budgets and then they become main treatment vote on obamacare. they lose all of their courage. and they have let us down. that won't happen with me. >> so let's talk about this. e welcome both of you. thanks for being with me. earlier this summer we said it is too early. don't read too much into these
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polls but now the iowa caucuses are less than two months a i way. is this a realistic portrait of the state of the race? >> as they always tell us, carol, it is a snapshot of what it is taking a snapshot of. a national sampling of republican voters. of course the primary process is a state by state contest and those numbers look considerably different. but you are right i think to point both to the very large lead trump has, as well as the reasons. i think which your clip sort of perfectly nailed, which is this notion that republican voters feel like they have been let down. that the tea party made lots and lots of promises that did not come true. the reality problem, the fact is it it is not a matter of courage. it is a system of a lot of checks and balances, a lot of levels of government, a lot of different court rulings and a lot of democrats there including
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that guy who works out of 1600 pennsylvania avenue. so there has to be give and take. whether or not a president trump can do that? that remains to be seen, of course. >> interestingly enough. robert case, the former secretary of defense under presidents bush and obama. he wrote an on ed and said we need a president who understands there are three branches of government. coalition building is important. our new leader should appeal to the better angels of our nature. he was quoting abraham lincoln and you got to believe he was talking about donald trump. >> i agree with that. and i agree with just about everything errel said as well. there are a number of things that play. first he came into a very large field. i think it is clear the field needs to narrow now. i think the lower tier people need to stop their vanity
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campaigns and drop out. but trump came in with upwards of about 50 million dollars of free media. that was an estimate. i think it is safe to say by now it is 100 million. we have many right wing media figures supporting him. and i think many of these people know that a trump nomination means a hillary in the white house and that means selling a lot of antihillary books. yes i said that out loud. many of these people made careers and their fortunes with that clinton in the white house. they would like that again. there has been no concerted sustained effort to go against trump. if you do this in iowa. if you do this in new hampshire, he disappears. but this has not happened. i think people just don't quite know what to do about him. but he is a man who is not really a republican. he's changed parties five different times and he's bringing in new people to this effort that will not vote republican if he is not the republican nominee. so there is a lot of things
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going on here. the free media, the wall to wall coverage of his rallies that are substance free and nary a mention that less than two weeks he retweeted stuff from a neo nazi spremssy site. these are the things that should be discussed. many people don't understand this is going on. but again, if the field narrows, if there is a sustained effort to run against him, people should not be afraid that his friends in the right wing immediate -- >> you talk about pushback. she's gotten on her soap box this morning. i enjoyed it though, thank you. according to the poll the lower tier candidates are bush and kasich, who candidates who are pushing back against donald trump. >> right. look. i throw chris christie in there as well.
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there are -- there is absolutely no reason. she is right. if there is going to be an antitrump candidate who emerges and says let's make this a race between what trump represents and what i represent, there are any number of people who can plausibly lay claim to that timeout. and we won't know till about mid february i think we'll have a sense of that. >> thanks so much for being with me this morning. still to come, the senate might have just shot it down but one man is not giving up his fight to enforce stricter gun control. after a break, allison parker's father joins me with a latest on his mission to evoke change in washington. has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. for those who've served and the families who've supported them,
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the arsenal the killers in san bernardino this is mind-blowing. on them two assault rifles, two handguns, and then there was what was found inside their home, 4600 more rounds, 12 bombs, hundreds of bomb-making tools. president obama saying this can't become a new normal for americans. for years he's called for stricter gun control measures. just yesterday senate republicans saying, no, once again to new gun control legislation. someone all too familiar with this is andy parker. his daughter allison, along with her cameraman were killed on live television in august. immediately after alison's death, mr. parker vowed to do
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whatever it took to sop gun violence. joining us now live from washington. >> good morning, carol. i wish we were seeing each other under happier circumstances. perhaps one day we will. >> i hope so. you've been on a mission ever since your daughter's death. has there been any progress, in your mind? >> carol, i think we have moved the needle. i think if you look at the presidential debates, the democratic presidential debates for the first time ever it's in the conversation. gun-sense legislation is -- and common sense gun legislation is in the conversation, and that's never happened before. i think with each one of these tragic events, it has an ecti exponential effect.
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and every group of towns i'm working for gun safety and moms demand action, it's swelling from a ras roots standpoint. we are seeing progress and i think the tide is turning. >> i think for the tide to really turn, though, you have to establish some relationship with gun rights advocates. have you been able to do that? >> actually, we have. we -- we met -- there were a group of common sense and responsible gun owners that we met with a couple of weeks ago in washington at the everytown headquarters. these guys own guns. they also said, you know, we've had enough of this. this is craziness. and i think most of the nra membership, i don't think, i know most of the nra membership and the majority of responsible gun owners want to close gun show loopholes and they want
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universal background checks. that's the low-hanging fruit. we know there's a mental illness in this country. we're not the only country that has mental illness but we have the market cornered on these people. people having access to weapons. what the senate did yesterday is appalling to me. >> the new york daily news had a headline the day after this terrible shooting in san bernardino. it said -- in essence it said, you know, prayer isn't enough. god won't make this stop happening. a lot of -- a lot of gun rights advocates took offense to that. what do you think? >> well, i think that's -- unfortunately, that's become aa code word for sank that money yous politicians. our thoughts and prayers are with you. they think that's enough to get by. that's the code word for, we're not going to do anything. you know, thoughts and prayers
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are certainly appreciated, but we want to see action. when you have guys like bob goodlette, the congressman where ales on lived, who has 100 legislative bills at his desk, when you have mike mccall who is supposed to be looking after us as the chairman of the house committee to -- the homeland house -- the homeland security committee, and you look at what they do and they're obstructionists, i've called them cow warards. i say they're acting in a treasonist fashion. >> treasonist fashion? >> yes. when you have murder going on the way you have it. when you have the ability to affect gun legislation, sensible gun legislation, at least hearing, it you know, holding
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hearings. and when the gun lobby is giving these guys money to preempt that, yeah, i think you're aiding and abetting terrorists, which in my mind is treasonist. >> andy parker, thanks for joining me this morning. the next hour of "cnn newsroom" after a break. we give you relief from your cold & flu. you give them a case of the giggles. tylenol® cold helps relieve your worst cold & flu symptoms... you can give them everything you've got. tylenol® and then santa's workers zapped it right to our house. and that's how they got it here. cool. the magic of the season is here at the lexus december to remember sales event. this is the pursuit of perfection. that's a good thing, eligible for medicare? but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b
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tand that's what we're doings to chat xfinity.rself, we are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience.
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and this includes our commitment to being on time. every time. that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. good morning. i'm karol costello, reporting live from san bernardino, california. thank you for joining me. investigators are not willing to call it terrorism but new developments in southern california raise chilling new questions about what drove a california couple to mass murder. investigators tell us syed
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farook appears to have been radicalized. they may have been trying to cover their tracks. inside their home they find a computer with the hard drive missing and two smashed cell phones are found near one of the crime scenes. inside the home thousands of rounds of ammunitions and a dozen bombs and materials to make even more explosives. the photos also show the remote-controlled car and unexploded bombs found at the site of the massacre. the family for farook downplays any act of terrorism. >> this wasn't a lot of munitions. it was an average amount. everyone knows he just did this for target practice and there was no plan here. there's been no evidence of any plan. >> we'll hear much more from that attorney later on in the "newsroom." first of all, the investigation, victor blackwell is in redlands,
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california, and jim sciutto is in washington. victor, i want to start with you, what did you find out? >> carol, good morning. by removing the hard drive from that laptop and smashing those cell phones, which investigators describe as fairly knew, were rizwan farook and his wife trying to hide communications, hide contacts in law enforcement officials are suspicious and they've issued subpoenas to e-mail providers trying to retrieve that information. assist it reelgts to a manifesto, which is often found in mass shootings, none has been found here at home nor online. it's still just been a few days since the massacre at the irc. we know the fbi is working to interview family members, farook's family members to ask them, of course, what they knew. they are cooperating, we're
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told. listen now to what farook's sister told cbs news. >> i can never imagine my brother or sister-in-law doing something like this, because they were happily married, they have a beautiful 6-month-old daughter. so many questions. i ask myself if i had called him that morning, what he was doing, what he was up to, if i had any i thi inclination, maybe i could have stopped it. >> they found thousands of rounds of ammunition. >> i was surprised. >> do you think he deserves to be forgiven? >> that's a heart question. i don't know if i could forgive him for what he did. >> farhan, can you forgive your brother-in-law? >> not right now. >> we're hearing similar shock from other family members, also here in the community, from two people -- especially about two people who were not on law
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enforcement's radar. carol? >> jim sciutto -- well, plenty of rumors going around it really was farook's wife that radicalized him. but is there any evidence of that? >> they don't have any hard evidence. they're taking this carefully as they piece together the signs. what they have is clear evidence farook was in touch with known terrorism suspects. we're not talking necessarily isis leaders, rekrurtd hecruitr cetera, but those on jihadi foru forums. not damning but that contact has been observed as a path to radicalization and sometimes a path to terrorism in the past. communication is key, number one. number two, their travel. they've traveled to saudi arabia. we know farook went to saudi arabia in july of 2014.
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u.s. officials tell us there's a separate trip in 2013. that's believed to be when he met his wife. she came on a fiancee visa, a green card. they look at that card to see if there was a time when radicalization may have taken place. the wife is someone they're looking at as an influence, but they have not determined if she or he or the two of them together, assuming they definitively determined this was terrorism, that she or he, who was kind of the leader in taking the radical path. >> do you believe that he was radicalized? >> yes, by the wife. i think he married a terrorist. >> he married a terrorist? >> yes. >> that's view of one of his coworkers who made that judgment, but it's not a
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conclusion investigator have come to yet, carol. >> so why don't we know more about the wife? we've want even seen a picture of her? >> reporter: suffice to say, i'm sure investigators have a picture of this. it's part of the investigation so it's not public. i wouldn't be surprised if we see something soon. we have details about her nationality, the child, et cetera, but this is a profile that they're building right now of her. as they do that, they're looking at everything. they're looking at social media postings, looking at communications, looking at foreign travel for both her and her husband. >> jim sciutto, victor blackwell, thanks to both of you. new details emerging about the 14 victims killed, like michael wetzel, father of six. daniel kaufman who worked as a coffee shop. his boyfriend called him one
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that everybody loved. and why yet velasquez leaves behind her parents and three sisters. boris sanchez with more on the victims. >> reporter: good morning. there are 14 lives lost but it's hard to imagine the effect of the people associated with them. their families and how they're feeling. one is robert adams. is he actually a new father. he married his high school sweetheart and they have a daughter, who's 20 months old. they say robert always wanted to be a father and cherished every moment with her. they were planning their first trip to disneyland for next week with his daughter. another victim is bet-baadal who moved to america to avoid
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religious persecution. here's what his daughter told anderson cooper last night. >> she used to tell me if i do go, i want you to -- i wanted everyone to stay strong. i don't you guys, like, grieving or crying. just going off that. >> another one of the victims is 52 yd-year-old nicholas thalasinos. he was the first person we could confirm was killed. he's very passionate about his jewish beliefs and we spoke to a friend who said he had a heat discussion about politics before the days before. lots of questions about that conversation, maybe nick cal was a target. three of 14 victims. many families affected by this terrible incident, carol.
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>> boris sanchez reporting live from new york, thanks so much. as i said, we are learning more this morning about all of the victims, including 37-year-old michael wetzel, married, father of six children. according to the l.a. times, he worked as a supervising environmental health specialist. on the phone with me is his wife and who also launched a fund-raising family for his family. thank you for talking with me, celia. >> thank you for having me, carol. >> well, first of all, how is -- how is michael's wife doing? >> she's holding up. the kids are her main focus and she's spending all of her energy and time taking care of them. >> how did she find out that michael was a victim?
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>> it took her a long time to find out, actually. she was posted to us about 1:00 that she knew he had been where the shooting was. she didn't find out until 10:00, about 10:00 i think. she went down to the scene and had to just keep waiting and asking questions. and from what i was told, they just kept getting people out and bringing out survivors. the last group of vooifrs came and he wasn't in it, they told her if he wasn't in there, then he was gone. >> does she know exactly what happened? >> she doesn't yet know. there's conflicting details. she's still putting pieces together.
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>> i know that you're helping the family. what kind of help do they need? >> i mean, right now, you know, i think that -- first of all, she's so overwhelmed and grateful for all the support the family is getting. it's a big family. it's a mixed family. so, i think financially is the best route to go, you know, both her and michael's first wife are going to have a huge task of raising these kids and making sure they are provided for. so, you know, obviously there's nothing any of us can do to relieve any of the pain and grief that that family is feeling, but, you know, the financial stress, i think, is going to be something if we can take away at all, that's going to be really helpful. >> what would -- what would she want us to know about michael?
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>> we were talking yesterday and she just said, here's her soul made and he was just the best father. actually, i was talking to his best friend who said the same thing. he was so great with the kids. an amazing father. that other fathers were actually even jealous of because he was so loving and patient and kind. and that everyone who knew him just adores him. i think that's the thing that won't get lost in this. >> celia behar, thanks for joining me this morning. still to come in the "newsroom" -- new details on the apparent radicalization of the one of the san bernardino shooters. coming up next, hear different opinions from one of the gunmen
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new details this morning involving the shooters behind the san bernardino massacre. law enforcement sources tell us syed rizwan farook appears to have been radicalized. let's talk about that cnn analyst jonathan gilliam. welcome. welcome to you,on thap. first, i want you both to hear what farook's brother-in-law had to say about him on nbc this morning. >> he was a good religious person. just like a normal, like anybody would be. but nothing -- nothing that i
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can say that he could do that. >> nothing that would fit the term radicalized, as we've heard? >> no, not that i can think. not the person i know. he was not radical. >> i couldn't quite hear that, but i do know what he said. farook's brother-in-law says he's not radicalized, brian, but how can he say that knowing all that police found in his home? >> look, we have to have compassion for people who are probably experiencing a lot of stress and might be in denial. bottom line is, we see certain types of people who commit mass and symbolic acts of violence. they are either idealogic logically motivated, hybrid, dangerous, cognitively impaired,
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dangerous. when you put the nonconclusive pieces of evidence together and line them up, it points to someone who is more and more radic radicalized. it can happen in a short amount of time, especially with social networks, the internet. if there's a peer, a family or a friend, as well as foreign travel. none of these things are conclusive on their own. the more evidence that comes in, particularly this cache of weapons and explosives. this is not a typical workplace violence type of thing. >> in your estimation, they're terrorists? >> well, as a former law enforcement officer, always let the evidence lead me, not me lead the evidence, but i would say right now, the preponderance of the evidence tilt toward terrorism. >> i have to interrupt you and go to jim sciutto. i'm warning you, i know i probably can't hear you. you have breaking new information about one of the suspects, farook's wife. what is it, jim? >> this is an important new
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development in this case. i'm going to be careful as we read this language here. but the news is that investigators now believe there's a connection to isis in the san bernardino shoot pentagon. they found a connection to isis. that is that the female attacker, the wife, tashfeen malik posted on facebook pledgipledge ing allegiance to al baghdadi. the posting by malik was made on an account, we are told, with a different name. one u.s. official telling cnn. the officials have not told us or explained exactly how, what device she used to make that posting. a law enforcement official telling us it appears the attack was inspired by isis as a result of this social media posting, but to be clear here, there's no evidence that it was directed by isis. inspired by isis but not directed by isis. this is looking more and more
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like self-radicalization an official told my colleague, pam brown. another official told us it's not ruled out someone influenced them on the path of radicalization. the key is that as this attack was under way or just before it, that the wife of the shooter, farook, tash sheen malik, posted to social media, to facebook, a pledge of allegiance to the isis leader al baghdadi. i should note for context as well, in previous isis-inspired attacks, this is something attackers have done. they've been asked to post by allegiance. there is precedence of this. multiple officials telling cnn this morning, that posting made by the wife, the one-open question is what device did she use? we're told it was done under a
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different name account. the connection there -- investigators seeing a direct connection to isis. carol? >> so, a couple of questions, just to be clear. after killing 14 people, she may have posted something on her facebook page, pledging support to al baghdadi? >> to be clear, it voo have been before or during, but around the time of the attacks she made this pledge to the isis leader. >> so, why not use your real name? why post it under a different account? >> that's something investigators are looking into. remember they found two destroyed cell phones at the scene of the shooting and the hard drive they found in their home had been taken out of their computer. hard drive taken out of the computer. so, it appears, investigators pursuing this further, but it appears they were covering their digital tracks, so to speak.
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so, this might fall under the same umbrella. you post under a different name because you recover your digital tracks. she clearly wanted it out there then that she was involved in these attacks and these attacks were inspired by isis. this is one of the many questions investigators right now are trying to harden up at this stage. this is the first time we've heard a direct connection to isis. >> i want to bring in jonathan gilliam and ask you a question about this. so, there were two destroyed cell phone and a missing hard drive at the couple's home. could the reason those items were found that these -- this couple was trying to cover up who was assisting them in this effort, this horrible effort?
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>> very well could be. if this was a cell, the makings of the cell, just the bag alone with the picture of all the pipe bombs in there, in order for someone to carry an attack like this out, it's better to have other people go, for instance, purchase those items. i would not be surprised at all if this individual and his wife never touched those items from a store until they got into their house. either they manufactured or someone else did and brought them there. this is the way that these terror cells work. like a covert military group. hard drives, cell phones, anything that can link them to a cell would be -- you know, they would attempt to get rid of those things. the mistake, and this is the achilles heel, now that you do that, you've notified everybody, here we are.
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if they're part of a cell and the investigation can find the clues, that will expand. i will say this, before we went to the breaking news, the brother, we have to start looking at people -- erin burnett did an interview with the paris attacker's brother. we have to look closely at what these individuals say, i don't think so, that's a minimizization statement. we need to look closely at relatives when they say things like that. that's very odd. if my sister had done something like that and i had no idea, you would see me say, i had no idea. this is crazy. but when i say, i don't think she was radicalized. to me that's a minimumization statement and a little odd. >> this message was posted on a facebook page. how do authorities know that this malik posted it herself?
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>> that's right vant told us how they connected the facebook page to her. just for context, they might do it through a device. would he all leave digital signatures. that's what they're doing right now, looking at computers, cell phones found at the scene, et cetera. that's the way they would establish a connection like this. they are confident it came from here, even though it was under a different name. >> interesting. brian, you heard what jonathan gilliam said, right? >> yes. >> do you agree? >> yes. >> could she have been the catalyst for his radicalization? oftentimes when we see duos, it might very well be a cell. one of the thins i was thinking of -- one, the amount of weaponry and explosive device told me this is more than a workplace attack. in addition, i think they wanted
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to do other attacks. >> they had like a bomb-making lab in their garage. >> oh, my gosh. i heard the lawyers talking this morning with chris cuomo. yeah, that's not very convincing. one of the things we're seeing, though, isis, if they can't get people here or they can't get people to train over there, they're interested in inspiring people here. you read the magazine, do what you can here, even if you can't -- hit italy it's france, hit britain. hit united states. this was their big target. they talked about it right afterwards. when when happens is when you inspire people, should we get only the best and most spectacular targets or should we get whatever is around and have them hit whatever is closest. >> like a holiday party. >> anything. >> they lacked a lot of
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sophistication which leaves me to believe they were inspire the just not necessarily well trained. how far does this go. is there some kind of cell and this is the unraveling of these digital fingerprints. it will be interesting to see how this radicalization took place. when you have timothy mcveigh, they manipulate a more vulnerable person. i know the head of that mosque. it's not an extreme mosque. it seems to me they would have been -- >> the mosque farook attended? >> yes. >> i have to take a break. we'll be back with much more in the "newsroom." wfrom your cold & flu. you give them a case of the giggles. tylenol® cold helps relieve your worst cold & flu symptoms... you can give them everything you've got.
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and good morning, i'm carol costello, reporting live from san bernardino, california. i would like to welcome our viewers from around the world. we have breaking news. investigators have found a connection to isis in regards to these terrible shootings in san bernardino. jim sciutto broke the story moments ago. jim, i want to bring you back in. tell us what you know. >> here's the latest. as you say, investigators have now established a link to isis to the san bernardino shootings. this link based on their finding that the wife of the shooting, rizwan malik, that she posted a pledge of allegiance to the leader abu bakr al baghdadi on an account with a different account. law enforcement looks at this as an attack inspired by isis, but not necessarily directed by
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isis. the inspiration came, but they weren't necessarily under isis to pick out targets, et cetera. but still a link, based on tashfeen malik making this pledge of allegiance to al b baghdadi. i autopsy want to mauck clear because we talked about this regularly for the last couple of days about the influence of a workplace dispute on this. law enforcement source telling cnn there is greater focus on the part of investigators as to whether there was a workplace issue around religion. so, to be clear, that workplace factor has not been ruled out as an influence in this case. what is new here is they established a link to isis in
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this case. that the wife there, tashfeen malik, pledging allegiance on a facebook posting as the attack was under way to the leader al baghdadi. another note i would make, this there is precedence in this in other isis-inspired attacks. isis asks, even demands of supporters to make a public posting on social media, twitter, on facebook, as the attack is under way. we've seen this in a number of other attacks inspired by isis as well. carol? >> jim sciutto, thanks. i want to bring in our cnn analyst paul. authorities found a smashed cell phones, a smashed hard drive in their home. there's evidence the couple may have had help along the way. is that there was a cell,
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possibly? >> we don't know if there was a cell behind this. just the two acting on their own, on their own steam. jim's reporting is extremely significant, that this was an isis-inspired attack. we have not seen a deadly isis inspired attack in united states. to date, by my account, this would be the first time we've seen people killed by an isis-inspired attack in the united states. also moves us toward the notion that this was an islamist terrorist attack. this would be the deadliest, islamist terrorist attack in the united states by my account since 9/11. all of this very significant. as he says, there is a track record for isis-inspired extremists in the west to pledge allegiance to abu bakr al
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baghdadi, to isis, just before the attacks or under way. we saw that happen in garland, texas, in may of this year where elton simpson, one of those responsible for the failed attack, they were killed by a traffic cop, he pledged on twitter just before the attack an allegiance to abu bakr al baghdadi. we have the tweet. in denmark in february of this year, an attacker who launched an attack on a free speech event in copenhagen also killed a jewish man in copenhagen, he posted a pledge of allegiance to abu bakr al baghdadi minutes before the attack. we also saw someone in france in december of 2014 who launched a knife attack against police, a similar thing on his facebook page where he put the isis flag up. in that hostage siege in australia in september of 2014,
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he put up a pledge of allegiance to isis on his own web page. this has consistently happened. isis encouraging this, celebrating this. and we repost these tweets and facebook pledges. they're telling these -- the followers around the world that, by allowing us to take ownership for this, that's almost as important as launching the attack itself. so, very, very important reporting from jim sciutto. i think this changes the complexion of how we look at this attack. >> all right. i have to take a break. but next to me is california congressing ing congressman aguilar. this is claira.
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investigators have found a connection to sigs in the san bernardino shooting. i'm going to read this off my cell phone because i want to get it just right. as the san bernardino attack was happening, investigators believe the female attacker, tashfeen malik, posted on facebook, pledging allegiance to isis leader abu bakr al baghdadi, according to three officials familiar with the investigation. the posting was made by malik on an account with a different name. according to one official. the officials did not explain how they knew malik made that post but this is a disturbing new development. as far as i know, this is the first time such an attack has gone down in the united states. joining me now is california representative pete aguilar. you're just hearing the news. your reaction? >> this is my district. this is my home. where i was born and raised. i'm a fourth generation of this city and this community. this is shocking. this tragedy has been shocking. we'll continue to grieve and continue to work with the
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families and those who have been effected. i've asked for and received both classified and nonclassified briefings from the fbi. they have been continuing to keep me in touch on the developments. >> were you expecting this? >> you know what, i don't think we expect any of this. we didn't expect this tragedy a couple hundred yards from where we're standing right now. so, there's still so much more that we're going to -- >> it just adds such a frightening new dimension to this tragedy. >> it does. clearly, as a member of the house armed services committee, we've been asking questions about these issues. we've been talking about these developments over the years. you know, we don't know this -- i know this has been reported but nothing has been confirmed. that's a better question for law enforcement officials. >> that's thing that's been frustrating some people, especially the president, hasn't come out and said, this is a terrorist attack. it's cut and dried. i mean, they had a bomb-making lab in their garage.
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>> i've been very cleared this was an act of terror on my community. that's how i feel. i'm less concerned about legal definitions of terror. last night thousands of us came together as a community vigil and honored those folks. we are going to pick up the pieces, and continue to move forward. i share your comments that -- about what we call this. i've been calling this an act of terror in my community because that's exactly how i feel. >> how would you characterize the terrorists of this case? >> i don't know that i can -- that i can call them anything. i think right now this is an act of terror on my community. something that was done here in san bernardino and within the inland empire. it's tragic and shocking. but what i would continue to say is that this right now as we hear the stories of the families and put pictures on these names, it's just been devastating for
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our entire community. and the 14 that lost their lives, the 21 that are injured, but the hundreds more who have been affected who are in inland regional center standing behind you, and the hospital staff and first responders, all of those folks, you know, we need to stand with and work with. >> in the bigger picture, in the war against isis, some americans don't think we're doing enough, especially in syria and in iraq. your thoughts. what should we do now? >> there's more that we need to do, clearly. and the house armed services committee has had hearings on this. i think people on both sides of the aisle have had discussions about what more we can do. you know, we stand ready as members of congress and as members of the committee. we stand ready to hear what the administration is doing and to give adequate oversight and to give our pnz on things we need to be doing in order to combat this threat. >> any thought on one specific thing we need to do? >> well, i think no-fly zone is
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something the committee has talked about. those can be done, offering same refuge for individuals to be trained to fight isis as well as those refugees who are fleeing a terrible, terrible situation. you know, that's just one thing that we can and should be looking to. i just want to be clear. law enforcement needs to comment on this. i'll continue to ask for briefings. i've called this a threat on my community here in san bernardino county. >> congressman, thank you for being with me this morning. i appreciate it. we'll take a quick break and be back with much more in the "newsroom."
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welcome back to san bernardino, california. authorities have found a connections to isis in the san bernardino attack. apparently the female attacker posted on a facebook page, a pledge of allegiance to the isis leader, al baghdadi. i want to bring in cnn terror analyst paul cruickshank. when you piece together all we know so far, this couple had bomb-making lab in their garage, destroyed hard drive and cell phones from their drive, wore
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military, fatigue tooip clothes, had their faces covered, and now this pledge to al baghdadi. what do you make of this, paul? >> the scenario we may be looking at now, the couple may have been planning something. some form of terrorist attack in the united states on behalf of isis. but something that happened at that holiday party, we're hearing perhaps an argument over religion, may have brought forward those plans and brought forward those plans perhaps dramatically. and they, perhaps, just decided to go straight out and do what they could then at the holiday party. they didn't bring all the bombs they had. there were 12 pipe bombs left in their gaj. maybe they brought forward their plans. we don't know yet whether that was the case. the fact we're hearing this was this altercation, an argument
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over religion, suggests that type of scenario. the fbi going to do a lot more investigating and they'll go where facts lead them. this does appear to be in the isis column, the isis-inspired column. we can expect isis to claim ownership of this attack in a big way to make propaganda over it. i think the fact this came so soon after the paris attacks, you have to ask yourself, were they inspired by what they saw play out in paris? the isis-inspired attacks on the streets in europe, did that speed up plans? that's something investigators will be looking at to get precise answers because they are, after all, both dead. >> paul cruickshank, thanks. thanks for joining me. i'm in san bernardino, california. "at this hour with berman and bolduan" after a break.
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hello, i'm boehnjohn berman >> i'm kate bolduan. we are following breaking news out of the massacre in san bernardino, california. investigates have found a connection to isis. this is the first link we have heard of between the terror group and the shooting rampage that killed 14 people and wounded 1 others. >> chief national security correspondent jim sciutto broke the story. he joins us now with details. what have you learned? >> multiple u.s. officials telling me and my colleague, pamela brown, as the san bernardino was under way, the wife of the shooter, tashfeen malik, she posted to facebook a pledge of allegiance to the isis leader

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