tv The Lead With Jake Tapper CNN December 4, 2015 1:00pm-2:01pm PST
and it just solidified that again in my heart and in my mindset. and for that i'm -- for that i'm thankful. >> and we are thankful for folks like lieutenant madden. i'm brooke baldwin. thanks for being with me. "the lead" starts now. welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we begin today with breaking news on many fronts in our national lead. the fbi is now officially investigating the san bernardino massacre as a terrorist attack. this latest development comes after the news that broke on cnn this morning that law enforcement officials have uncovered writings on facebook by the female terrorist pledging support to isis leadership. also this afternoon, after it was cleared by law enforcement, the landlord allowed cnn inside the terrorist couple's apartment. it's no longer according to the fbi an active crime scene. it was an extraordinary place to visit. we will bring you into that scene. but moments ago fbi director james comey spoke about the
investigation. >> our investigation to date, and again it's only two days old, so far we have no indication that these killers are part of an organized larger group or form part of a cell. there's no indication that they are part of a network. >> we are also learning much, much more about the lives tragically cut short by the two callous killers. all of the 14 victims now identified. they range in age from 26 to 60. we will tell you about them later in the show, but let's begin with the latest on the investigation. pamela brown has been speaking with her sources. she joins me now live from san bernardino, california. pamela, why are officials so confident that this was an act of terror? >> reporter: well, today officials, jake, said that there were several new pieces of evidence that came to light recently that moved the dial for
them to this possibly being an act of terrorism including this facebook post where the wife apparently posted her allegiance to al baghdadi, the leader of isis, just before the attack. investigators are looking at the possibility that this couple was self-radicalized. so, jake, this could possibly be the worst terrorist attack since 9/11. >> as of today based on the information and the facts as we know them, we are now investigating these horrific acts as an act of terrorism. >> reporter: for the first time the fbi is calling the attacks in san bernardino terrorism. surrounding the chaos investigators say syed farook's wife tashfeen malik was on facebook pledging her allegiance to isis leader abu bakr al baghdadi. made in a most under a different name, one official said. >> we have also uncovered evidence that these subjects
they attempted to destroy their digital fingerprints. >> reporter: cnn has learned two smashed cell phones believed to be the couple's were recovered from a garbage can near one of the crime scenes. and a computer found at the home was missing a hard drive. investigators suspect it might have been destroyed. authorities hope the digital footprint they can recover will reveal more about the motive. >> that will take time. but i truly believe that's going to be the potential golden nugget but we just don't know yet. >> reporter: inside farook's house police found a virtual bomb making laboratory with smokeless powder and remote control cars, like the one found in the suspect's car. they also found a cache of nearly 5,000 rounds of am ewe nipgs. the family's attorney tells cnn that while they were aware farook and malik had guns there were no warning signs they had been radicalized. >> doesn't mean you're planning an attack. there wasn't anything to the family to show or dignify he's doing something out of the
ordinary. >> reporter: u.s. officials tell cnn farook traveled to saudi arabia twice in 2013 when he met his pakistani born wife there and again in 2014. a foreign official says malik was not on any watch list or under suspicion for suspicious activity. how much are you learning about the dynamic of the marriage? there's a lot of curiosity there. and some people are saying that perhaps the wife may have influenced him. can you give us anymore insight? >> i've been asked that. and i don't know the answer whether she influenced him or not. being a husband myself we're all influenced to an extent, but i don't know the answer. >> reporter: but as what you've learned about her has that influenced your belief more so that this was an act of terrorism as you learn more about her? >> we're investigating as an act of terrorism for good reason. >> reporter: and today director comey saying a lot of this evidence still doesn't add up. and that is part of why it has taken a couple of days for the fbi to say that we're
investigating this as an act of terrorism. one thing investigators are really focused on trying to figure out is why syed farook's workplace was targeted. did they have another target in mind? was there a religious effort in the workplace? investigators waiting on returns from the electronics to give them a better idea of why that place of work was targeted, jake. >> pamela brown, thank you so much. it was a bizarre scene in san bernardino just a few hours ago when the attackers' home opened after law enforcement and the fbi said they had been completed with the scene, the crime scene. the landlord invited members of the press inside. there the media saw everything from religious books and family photos and baby items presumably belonging to the 6-month-old daughter of the terrorist couple, our correspondent victor blackwell was there. victor, i know cnn has been careful about what information to show and what information not to show, but you did get a firsthand look at this terrorist couple's home. that's something you seldom see.
tell us about it. >> reporter: jake, i know i didn't -- i don't think anyone expected that this would happen today, or ever actually. to go inside the home of the san bernardino shooters. but the landlord, the owner, doyle miller, invited the media inside to get a look at the life they left behind. take a look. the first glimpse inside the lives of the san bernardino shooters. the killer couple's landlord prying open the boarded up doors to allow media to look inside the home left behind by syed farook and tashfeen malik. an extraordinary scene with no objection from the fbi. >> we executed a search warrant on that apartment. and last night we turned that over back to the residents. once the residents have the apartment and we're not in it anymore, we don't control it. >> they called me late last night. >> reporter: what did they say? >> they said that -- >> reporter: landlord doyle miller reacts to the scene left behind by investigators in their search for evidence against the san bernardino shooters.
>> this is unbelievable. >> reporter: around the apartment there are signs of life familiar to families everywhere, clutter in the kitchen, toys belonging to the couple's 6-month-old daughter are scattered on the floor. but it's here in the couple's bedroom closet where you find a sign of the intense investigation that took place as cnn's stephanie elam discovered during a tour of the home. >> you can see where they smashed up into the ceiling to take a look to see what was up there. it does appear based on how much debris is on the ground that there was an effort to get up there and make sure that they checked every crevice of this back bedroom. >> reporter: personal identification and other documents belonging to farook's mother were left scattered on the bed. evidence of the couple's devout faith are also scene throughout the apartment. a prayer rug on the wall. various books on the subject of islam, even prayer beads left on the edge of the bed. and here in a corner the crib belonging to their baby girl left with her grandmother on the day of the shooting. a haunting reminder of what the
young family might have become. now, there were scores of reporters and photographers who went inside. also some neighbors, there was a woman walking through with her dog. it was open for about an hour but eventually two people with the owner's wife walked up, resealed that door. and the owner, doyle miller, got into an unmarked law enforcement car and was driven away. jake. >> all right, victor blackwell, thanks so much. the fbi is now the lead agency investigating the san bernardino terrorist attack. and the fbi is classifying it as an act of terrorism. just minutes ago the director of the fbi james comey and the u.s. attorney general loretta lynch weighed in on wednesday's mass shooting and the potential links to isis or another terrorist group. cnn justice reporter evan perez joining me live from fbi headquarters in washington. evan, what did they have to say? >> well, you know, jake, we don't often have the attorney general and the fbi director together doing a briefing. now we've had a couple of them just in a couple of weeks after
paris and now after san bernardino. one of the headlines here is the fact that they have found indications of radicalization. something we first reported a couple days ago obviously, but now the fbi is saying that that is the reason why they are now classifying this investigation as a terrorist organization -- as a terrorist investigation. and part of that is also because they believe that these two killers were inspired by a foreign terrorist organization. now, he's not prepared to say which one. he said we know about the message posted on facebook by the female pledging allegiance to the leader of isis. the fbi director says there's still a lot of investigative work to do, but from what they are seeing this is a classic case of terrorism. it's also a classic case that frankly he has warned about, one that's extremely difficult for the fbi to stop. he says, you know, frankly, people who are not part of a larger network, which they believe this case is, not part of any larger organization, are
always difficult to find because if they're radicalizing in private the fbi really has no idea what they're doing. one of the important things he talked about the contacts that we've reported on previously that these two people -- rather that syed farook had with known people to the fbi, people who were under investigation by the fbi previously, he talked about those contacts. he said they weren't really significant. there wouldn't have been anything that the fbi would have caused the fbi to take a closer look at these two people, jake. >> evan perez, thank you so much. joining me now phil mudd, former deputy director of the cia's counterterrorism center and cia terrorism analyst paul cruickshank, thanks to one and all of you for being here. let me start with you, phil. it's interesting that the female terrorist posted something on facebook swearing her allegiance to isis. and yet the fbi not yet prepared
to say that they were a cell or even that they were necessarily radicalized by isis leaving open the possibility that they were radicalized by al qaeda or a different group. >> if you look at how you investigate a case like this, there's a couple avenues you're going to take. one avenue is the broken phones and the hard drive which e-mail will give you searches on google. it's going to take a while for the forensic guys in quantico to work through those. that is a key indicator in the 21st century of who you talk to over time. i want to build a web of understanding around you so i know everything you did. the second avenue is people. the family saying they didn't know anything, the friends are saying they didn't know anything. so if you want to assess intent and the people you know say they didn't know anything and the electrons you want to access are difficult to access because you tried to destroy them beforehand, that's going to take a little while, jake. >> and, paul, let me ask you. has isis issued any sort of claim of responsibility for this horrific attack? >> well, the news agency --
>> what is that? >> it's a news agency which is affiliated with isis which has carried their exclusive content in the past, they have commented. and they've said these are two isis supporters, not fighters but supporters. they're making that distinction. they're saying essentially that this was an isis-inspired attack. not an isis directed attack. and that of course is very significant language they are using because it fits with this pledge of allegiance to abu bakr al baghdadi by the female involved in this, jake. >> let's talk about the female involved with our fbi profiler. a co-worker of syed farook told cbs news that it was the wife who radicalized the husband. you hear a little bit of this out there, media chatter, how common is that in this type of case? >> the whole totality of this case makes her very uncommon. and i think once all the facts evolve she's going to really sort of stand in a category all
by herself. it's not just that she might be the ringleader, but it's the behavior within, for example within that venue where the shootings occurred that will cause her to stand out. it's the predatory behavior. if she was walking around that venue shooting and killing people, actually we call that hunting human beings, that's predatory behavior. it is consistently and almost unanimously always associated with a male. and even if she stood in the corner and started to shoot while people were screaming and yelling, that's very sadistic behavior. again, almost exclusively male behavior. so that callousness and that lack of compassion really will cause this woman to stand apart in her act of violence. >> very unusual. all of you please stick around. we're going to continue this conversation after the break. we have more to discuss including the evidence that the shooters apparently destroyed before they were killed in the shootout with police. stay with us. we'll be right back.
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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we're going to continue with our breaking news. the fbi officially investigating the mass shooting in san bernardino, california as a terrorist attack. back with us our panel of experts, mary ellen o'toole, paul cruickshank, phil mudd, you heard mary ellen say it's so rare for a mass shooter to be a female, almost entirely they're male. is that true also with terrorism? are they almost always male or females as well? >> there's certainly been female terrorists, black widows in russia and al qaeda and iraq basically isis a few years ago when they didn't have as many men as they have now they used dozens and dozens of female suicide bombers. in iraq one was a belgium catholic convert who blew herself up the same day as her husband in iraq in november
2005. we've seen husband-wife teams before when it comes to islamist terrorism. there was a couple back in 2004 in holland that set out to try and assassinate a dutch legislator. he had a machine gun, she tailed along. and just earlier this year we saw -- remember those pictures with the crossbows all dressed -- >> right. >> that couple, well she had fled to isis land around the same time as her husband carried out that attack on the kosher market. so we've seen it before. it's fairly rare though. >> it is rare. when you were at the cia and the fbi for that matter and you would get briefings on all the terrorists, this constant deluge, do you remember women terrorists being amongst those names? >> i don't remember. i mean, there's so many characteristics here that explain why trying to come up with a profile of this which is what the american people want in the next few days is difficult. we sat down every night at the agency at 5:00. i don't remember a single female's name. every night that's 1,000
briefings over the course of three or four years, not a single female's name. you would not have had individuals who didn't have connectivity with the central organization, that is al qaeda. they brought them in for training. you would not have had individual who is chose a target that didn't have some symbolic significance, like the trade center, like the metro -- or subway in london 2005. so the characteristics over the course of just 14 years have changed so substantially. if you're asking for an answer, how do you find these folks? i'm looking at this and saying don't expect a good answer because i don't see one and i've been doing this forever. >> mary ellen, when we saw when victor brought us the scenes from inside the terrorist couple's apartment, obviously all the evidence has been taken. the fbi has said that in terms of the bombs and stockpiled ammunition and other weapons. what strikes you is that you look and you see there's a crib, there are some childrens books, there are some childrens toys. as much as you can bring us inside the mind of this woman who six months ago had a baby girl and then goes out on this
horrific mission. >> well, i think we need to be really careful about that and look at all the behavior. what we see is somebody that participated in strategic planning that went on for a very long period of time. and the importance of maintaining a facade of normalcy seemed to be very important so that ultimately they could carry out this attack. so i would suggest that we have to consider after something as horrible as this there was no way they could go back to life as normal. if they had another plan, another hit planned they could never go back to normal. but i would suggest that it was so important to have this facade of normalcy that baby may have been a prop. and i know that will be offensive to a lot of people especially women with strong maternal instincts, but the baby may have been a prop. >> yeah. these extremists they believe not just they are going to go to paradise for carrying out these terrorist acts. they believe their close family members will also get that
reward. so they would have been hard wired to believe that their baby because of what they did would also go to paradise. so that would be the way they would justify it to themselves. it's a very important thing for us to realize that that is the way these people are hard wired. it's that belief they will be rewarded in the afterlife. that is why all of them, all of them, are doing what they're doing. >> let me take this a step further, jake. again, this is going to be hard to believe, but the emotional and religious commitment is so strong among these folks that i think their commitment to the cause is greater than their commitment to the child. the example i'd use is one of the first al qaeda members we took down at the cia back in the '02-'03 timeframe after we started capturing the leadership of the organization, sat down with an interrogator at one point said i regret now that i will never get out and had a child because if i had a son i could indoctrinate him so he could be the next generation. incredible commitment to the cause. it's hard for us in the west to understand, but we see it all the time in these cases. >> it's so bizarre, and phil you were saying during the commercial break one of the
things that still strikes you as so odd about this incredibly horrific and bizarre story is the target they chose. >> sure. >> it's still stimies law enforcement. >> that's right. i don't think we'll come up with simple answers. if you look at terrorism the intent is to send a signal to a government. for example, don't intervene in iraq, don't intervene in afghanistan. we're going to attack the pentagon, white house, subways which are a symbol of economic power, attack a cafe in paris or rock show, symbol of french culture. so you have a direct connectivity between radicalization and the target that's chosen as a way of protest by the person conducting the attack. significance politically is of the workplace? i think we're going to find a mix here. >> it could have been serving a dual purpose really. because they did not just choose that venue at the last minute. this was a much too controlled crime. >> and isis saying attack anybody anywhere. that's their message. they're responding to it it
would appear. >> all right. paul cruickshank, phil mudd, mary ellen o'toole thanks to all of you for your insight. how did the killers plot their attack? a member of the house intelligence committee will join us next. he'll tell us what he has learned about the two shooters and their possible links to a specific terrorist group. that story next. hi i'm heather cox on location with the famous, big idaho potato truck. our truck? it's touring across america telling people about idaho potatoes. farmer: let's go boy. again this year the big idaho potato truck is traveling the country spreading the word about heart healthy idaho potatoes and making donations to local charities. excuse me miss, have you seen our truck? you just missed it. ahhh! aw man are you kiddin' me? if yand you're talking toevere rheumyour rheumatologiste me, about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain
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we need to be ready for my name's scott strenfel and r i'm a meteorologist at pg&e. we make sure that our crews as well as our customers are prepared to how weather may impact their energy. so every single day we're monitoring the weather, and when storm events arise our forecast get crews out ahead of the storm to minimize any outages. during storm season we want our customers to be ready and stay safe. learn how you can be prepared at pge.com/beprepared. together, we're building a better california. welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we're staying with our national lead. we may have just seen the first large-scale isis inspired attack in the united states. joining me now to talk more about this with more insight
california congressman eric swalwell member of the house intelligence committee and of course also from california where this horrific attack took place. congressman, you've been briefed twice on this act of terrorism in san bernardino. what do you know about any contact that these killers might have had with any of these terrorist organizations abroad, isis or al qaeda or someone else? >> thanks, jake. and we're still running it to the ground, but what we know is there's been prior communication to suspected terrorists. there's been foreign travel. there's a cachet of weapons and of course the message posted on facebook. all of those alone don't necessarily point to terrorism, but put together circumstantially all of the arrows point to terrorism. >> do you have any information on how these two may have been radicalized? was it abroad in pakistan or saudi arabia? or could it have been here in
the united states in front of their laptop computer? >> i know the fbi is exploring that intensely right now. but the big concern is that isis no longer has to simply order attacks. they have become so influential that their success is inspiring attacks. and that is the big fear in every community in america today. >> before this horrific terrorist attack in san bernardino, the intelligence community said and president obama repeated that there was no credible terrorist threat to the united states homeland. and then these two killed 14, wounded 21. as a member of the house intelligence community, are you worried that the intelligence community is just simply not capable of tracking every one of these threats? >> i'm worried that isis is growing stronger and stronger and their influence is expanding across the globe. and until we can first have a coordinated effort among western
and muslim countries that can eliminate isis where they operate, which is syria and iraq, they're going to continue to be influential across the globe. and we'll see further displays of radicalization and then efforts to kill innocent americans. >> a few hours after the shootings in san bernardino, president obama was interviewed by cbs news. and he had this to say about the threat posed by isis. take a listen. >> our homeland has never been more protected by more effective more intelligence and more law enforcement at every level, but the dangers are still there. we have to keep things in perspective. the american people should feel confident that, you know, we're going to be able to defend ourselves and make sure that, you know, we have a good holiday season. and go about our lives. >> our homeland's never been more protected, we have to keep things in perspective, americans
should have a good holiday season. do you ever worry that there is a disconnect between what president obama says about terrorism and the actual threat? not to mention the fears that i'm sure you hear about from your constituents. >> the president understands the threat, but the concern here at home and where i may differ from the president is that isis has become so successful abroad that they are inspiring attacks that we don't even know about among people that were not even contemplating to be threats. now, i will say we can do more as to eliminating the weapons that these folks have access to. right now we have done very little in the congress to make sure that the most dangerous people do not have access to the most dangerous weapons. and until they can no longer have access to assault weapons, until we stop people on the terror watch list from being able to get weapons, these terrorists if they're in our country they can do and reap great harm. >> these two individuals of
course these two terrorists were not on any sort of watch lists at all. it wouldn't have stopped this attack in the slightest. >> but they did use assault weapons. and those weapons are deadly. the bullets fly so fast, ts energy is two to three times more than from a typical handgun and leaving no chance for anyone who's in their path. >> all right. congressman eric swalwell, thank you so much. appreciate your time. we are just now getting some new information from the fbi including what they found inside the apartment of these terrorists. we'll be back live in san bernardino right after this quick break. stay with us.
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welcome back to "the lead." we do have some breaking news on the san bernardino massacre. a facebook official is telling cnn that a post that could be connected to the female terrorist went up at around 11:00 a.m. the day of the terrorist attack and it violated the company's standards. facebook has standards that
prohibit posting items celebrating terrorism. and that it was taken down. also in the last few minutes we're learning what the fbi found inside the home of the terrorists. let's go back to cnn justice correspondent pamela brown who is in san bernardino, california. pamela, this is a huge list of inventoried items. what stuck out to you? >> reporter: that's right. so in this list, which is somewhat difficult to read so let me tell you what stood out from what we can see here. there's a plethora of gun parts in this list including parts to an ar-15, a bolt for an m-4 style rifle, gun tube, lots of accessories that are listed here in tactical pouchs as well. also, jake, some potential bomb parts. we know from officials and sources we've been speaking to that the couple apparently had this ad hoc bomb lab in their home. and that includes a solid brass torch as well as a pin punch set and some other items on this
list. and electronics also seized from the home. this is interesting. it says playstation and control. the reason i point this out is because we've learned from officials that a way terrorists sometimes communicate is through playstation. we do not know if that is the case here, but certainly that is something investigators are going to want to look at. also on this list a nokia cell phone missing the sim card. we know from officials that the couple tried to destroy their digital footprint. that is key the sim card was missing. a laptop was also taken, a laptop toshiba taken as well as a thumb drive, those were sent to the fbi lab in virginia to be looked at. and hopefully they will be able to retrieve more information to shed light on a motive. so some key evidence taken from the home here, jake, that the fbi is looking at as we speak. >> all right. pamela brown, thanks so much. the fbi says that it is treating
the massacre in san bernardino as a terrorism investigation. if you ask the republican front-runner donald trump, the fbi should have gotten to that conclusion a lot sooner. and if you ask voters as we did in our cnn/orc poll, republicans think trump is the best equipped to tackle the problem of terrorism. cnn chief political correspondent dana bash is here to run down the numbers. dana, trump way out in the gop field. i mean, many, many points ahead of the person who's next in line. and they also think republican voters that he's the best equipped to handle this problem. >> this problem and pretty much everything else across the board. when you talk to the voters as we did in this poll, on the key issues, the ones that republican voters say are most important to determining which candidate they will support, for a while it had been tied with ben carson for the top spot, but now not anymore. donald trump owns it and it's not even close. >> my life has been about
winning. >> reporter: donald trump is winning, big time. 20 points ahead of the rest of the gop pack according to cnn/orc poll's new national p l poll. and leads on margins on how he'd handled issues on the board, most trusted by republican primary voters on the economy, isis, ahead on handling immigration, the budget, foreign policy. >> would i approve waterboarding? you bet your -- i'd approve it. >> reporter: cnn/orc poll was conducted before wednesday's mass shooting in california, an event trump predicted would pump his popularity even more. >> every time there's a tragedy, everything goes up, my numbers go way up because we have no strength in this country. we have weakness. we have weak, sad politicians. >> reporter: in the last month alone trump's lead increased by nine points, jumping from 27 to 36%. a month of controversial remarks that could have crushed any
traditional candidate. re-tweeting racist and wrong data about black crime, insisting thousands of muslims in new jersey were cheering on 9/11, seeming to imitate a disabled reporter. >> i don't know what i said. i don't remember. >> reporter: perplexed competitors are hoping to learn from trump's appeal while trying to knock him down. >> because being president isn't just about seeing what's in front of you. it's about understanding what will happen next if you don't do what needs to be done. >> reporter: marco rubio himself is coming under fresh fire from other gop candidates. new jersey governor chris christie saying of the first-term florida senator, there's not a lot of depth there. >> he's running for president and i'm one of the other candidates. he's not going to say nice things about me. >> reporter: rubio is now part of a three-candidate race for second place along with ben carson and ted cruz. all registering in the mid-teens. as for carson, he continues to struggle with foreign policy like repeatedly mispronouncing hamas when talking to the
republican jewish coalition. >> hamas rules the gaza strip. >> as for jeb bush, the man wlo came into this race in the summer as the front runner, he was the favorite among establishment republicans, jake he's now at 3%. >> dana bash, thanks so much. let's talk about 2016 and terrorism with cnn political commentator s.e. cupp. s.e., let me start with you. after the paris attacks there was this feeling among the republican establishment, now the voters are going to get serious. but it didn't work out that way. and if you look at our poll on the issues of isis, immigration, foreign policy, donald trump is considered by a plu ralty by republican voters the best to handle this. attack in san bernardino could continue to bolster trump. >> i expect that it will. i think there's a sense certainly among his supporters and among other republican voters that the isis strategy
out of this administration has been terribly flawed. and i think a lot of people are suspicious that more establishment republican candidates will sort of carry on an obama light version or an obama hawk version and not really shake things up the way trump talks about shaking things up. no one seems to mind of course that what trump proposes we do is both unconstitutional and against the geneva convention. >> in terms of killing terrorist families. >> killing isis' families, creating muslim-american database. a lot of promises he makes to his supporters he will never be able to keep. but he is certainly talking the most hawkish talk. and that's obviously appealing. >> stephanie, there is conventional wisdom in the democratic party that this all bolster's hillary clinton. certainly i can see that argument within the democratic primary fold, but is it not a risk to her that she as the former secretary of state will be blamed along with president obama for the rise of isis could this not be horrible news for
her in the general even if it's good for her hawkish credentials in the primary? >> well, i think that knowing what the republican race is at this point, hillary's going to stand out amongst that field in terms of not only having the knowledge to talk about her national security credentials and national security vision, but in terms of being trusted, in terms of leadership in being a strong leader and strong on national security she already has that support not just amongst democrats but amongst independents. >> well, let's take a look because, stephanie, we have some new numbers from our poll that are breaking this hour. hillary clinton is statistically tied when matched up against top republican contenders. you see there she's basically within the margin of error of carson, rubio, bush, trump and cruz. among independents however she loses across the board. there you see she's getting walloped with independents.
so i don't know how that fits in with the argument you were just making, or maybe you consider this poll to be an outlier, i don't know. but independents don't seem to be buying to what she's selling. >> first of all, i do think that that poll is an outlier. and when you -- when we get to a general election and there are two people at the top of the ticket, the choice is going to be that much more clear. and when you have a hillary clinton versus a carson or a donald trump, i think that choice is going to be pretty clear to people in terms of even understanding how to address our enemies. i mean, s.e. was talking about donald trump's policies, whether it's a national database of muslims, killing terrorist families, shutting down mosques, deporting 11 million americans, those are the types of things are going to hurt republicans in a general election. otherwise you wouldn't be hearing all this talk. >> that certainly what many people in the republican establishment think and in fact you saw -- you've seen that in the last week or so, s.e.,
republicans worried that donald trump might hurt them in terms of kelly ayotte senator in new hampshire running for re-election, rob portman running for re-election in ohio that he could be a drag because independents might ultimately vote for hillary that poll aside. >> yeah. i think it's amazing to me when you look at maybe a real clear politics average or these cnn polls that she is statistically tied with everyone at the top of her ticket, that includes carson, that includes donald trump. so, yes, you know it's hard to envision a hypothetical six months down the road. but republicans are still -- or voters are still deciding that the republican front runners are a pretty good matchup against hillary clinton. so, i mean, it's hard to imagine what trump can do between now and then to really lose the confidence of the voters, the support he's already gotten. >> nothing seems to have worked yet. s.e. cupp, stephanie, thanks so
much. the final countdown to iowa is on before that voting starts republicans will get one more chance to make their cases in 2015. the next gop debate happening right here on cnn. that's december 15th. that's a tuesday night. starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern. do not miss it. coming up, they leave behind a total of 18 children, the victims of the san bernardino massacre. who were they? how their lives have changed -- the families' lives have changed forever. plus a few days ago it was filled with ammo and a bomb factory of sorts. today the media got a look inside the killer couple's home after the fbi wrapped up its investigation. more on that coming up. ♪ every insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. for those who've served and the families who've supported them, we offer our best service in return.
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work have turned into a horrible unspeakable tragedy. they were cherished family members, best friends, parents. 14 people between the ages of 26 and 60 who spent their final day celebrating together, kissing their loved ones good-bye in the morning. never believing they wouldn't come home. >> the thought that was running through my mind was just like, no, no, no, this isn't true. >> reporter: ryan reyes drove his boyfriend daniel kaufman to the regional center wednesday as he did most mornings. kaufman ran a coffee shop there where he trained disabled employees. kaufman was taking a break on a bench outside when he was killed. >> he was the world to me. he meant the absolute world to me. yeah, sorry. >> reporter: many of the victims were parents leaving behind at least 18 children whose worlds are now changed forever. >> overall she was like an amazing person.
like she was so nice. like she always like supported me in everything i did. >> reporter: benneta had three children, her family and friends say she came to america from iran at age 18 to escape religious extremism. >> we just find it just sadly ironic and horrible that a woman that came to the country under these circumstances would find herself gunned down by religious extremists. >> michael wetzel leaves behind six children and his wife. a friend speaking for the family told cnn how reenee learned. >> they told her if he wasn't in there then he was gone. >> reporter: robert adams always wanted to be a dad. he and his wife welcomed a little girl just 20 months ago. a fund raising page set up for his family a friend posted, quote, he was 100% in dadly land.
his family says he cherished every moment with his daughter. 27-year-old sierra clayborn and yvette cherished daughters. yvetta a talented and motivated beautiful young woman her family said in a statement. on facebook sierra's sister wrote, quote, my heart is broken. i am completely devastated. the family of the youngest victim is 2. aurora godoy was just 26. she leaves behind a husband and a 2-year-old son. this community and the families of all the victims will need tremendous strength to move forward, a trait many learned from their loved ones. >> i'm doing okay because what else can i do? i have to stay strong. >> we are collecting a list of resources to help the survivors, the victims and the family members of those killed and wounded in the san bernardino massacre. you can go to cnn.com/impact to try to make a difference.
up next, a critical turn in the shooting investigation. the attack now being investigated as an act of terrorism. new details on a possible link to isis next. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough, but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common,
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but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. happening now, breaking news. act of terrorism. the investigation into the california shooting massacre ratchets up to a new level with new evidence of a possible isis connection. officials say the female shooter pledge ed allegiance to isis before being gunned down by police. were others involved? inside their lair as the home of the married killers open up to reporters who tour the townhouse on live television. we'll sort through the chaos, clutter and