tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN December 4, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PST
cannot imagine how caring she is. she had such a big heart. she was reportedly trying on wedding dresses her mother telling reporters they were planning a wedding and now they're having a funeral. randy kaye, cnn, atlanta. >> there is so much pain here. we've met so many good people here enough good people to know that all those hurting tonight will be in good hands as they move forward and try to heal. that does it for us tonight. "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts now. >> stay with me. it's 10:00 p.m. on the east coast and 7:00 p.m. in san bernardino. anderson, let's start with you, you have been covering this for the last two hours. we're getting new details from the chief of police about whether there was a dispute about this holiday party that may have prescipitated any of this. >> this could be critical.
from the beginning there was a report that the male perpetrator of this act of terror got in some kind of dispute at this workplace event and then left and came back and began shooting with his wife. the chief of police was interviewed by gary tuchman in particular about this. let's replay what he had to say. >> was there or was there not an argument at this holiday party with this killer? >> we don't know for sure. we had initial information from a witness or some witnesses that left the party and provided information that it appeared he left upset or under some fort of duress. there is indication that he was there -- there was nothing out of the ordinary and suddenly he was gone. >> they said they are only now having one person who said there was a dispute. all the other people said they had not seen or heard that.
if it turns out there was not a form of dispute that could be important to investigators in terms of trying to figure out exactly why this particular group was targeted. >> yeah, anderson, still a lot to be learned. pamela, we have the first photo of tashfeen malik, the wife. what more are you learning about her? >> she was born in pakistan. that is where she lived. but she also spent time in saudi arabia with her father who lived there for many years we're told. we learned she came to the u.s. on a fiance visa in the summer of 2014 and became a conditional resident this summer. but there is a lot of mystery surrounding her and the fbi is trying to piece together everything they can about her including her time in pakistan and saudi arabia. there are fbi agents over there talking to officials and trying
to piece together. and one of the big questions is could she have influenced her husband? there is a possibility there is self-radicalization going on. here is what the assistant in charge of the fbi said about that today. >> i don't know the answer whether she influenced him or not. being a husband myself, we're all influenced to an extent. >> has what you learned about her -- >> we are investigating it as an act of terrorism for a good reason. >> so this is really struck investigators, the fact that the couple did this together and so they want to learn more about their dynamic. but at this stage as you just heard there is still a lot to learn about their relationship and about her specifically. >> and the attorneys for the farook family have been speaking
out all day. they're denying that the shooter is linked to terrorism despite the fbi saying otherwise. >> that's right. they said over and over again that they couldn't link the couple to a foreign terrorist organization. the attorney is insinuating that the idea this could be terrorism is speculative because there is not enough information to sp substantiate that. >> i checked out a britney spears post. it doesn't mean you condone you look at or read or you are acting in behalf of what you look at or read. >> and so, that sound bite he is referring to this facebook post we learned about that the wife apparently posted, pledged her allegiance on facebook just before the attack to baghdadi,
the leader of isis. the attorney saying don't read too much into that. there is still a lot to learn. but as we heard from the fbi today after a couple of days looking at the evidence they are firmly saying this is now a terrorism organization. >> great reporting. i appreciate it. thank you very much. joining me now, two men who attended the same mosque as syed rizwan farook. thank you so much for joining us, gentlemen. we heard that syed rizwan farook, described as shy and quiet. tell us what your impressions are about him. first you, gasser. >> i met him about two years ago. he's not a friend of ours or we know him or anything like that. he would come to the 1:00 prayer and pray with us during his lunch break.
he was inspector for restaurant. when he had a lunch break he would come pray with us and then leave. we could talk to him five minutes, ten minutes, but nothing more than that. >> and what was your impression of him rahim? >> he was a nice guy. he was a quiet guy, more on the shy side. he never raised his voice. he never had any argument with anybody. i personally, we had conversation with him about two months ago when the russian plane was shot. we were talking about innocent people and there were 17 kids on the plane who died. and we were like why they do that? what do they get by killing 230 innocent people? and he was standing with us and having this conversation and he never commented or defended isis or anything like that. we know he never had at that
time any extremist idea or anything like that two months ago. >> rahim you threw a party for farook after he got married. you guys cooked for them? what can you tell us about his relationship with his wife. go on. >> we never met his wife personally. in islam the men and women are segregated. we wouldn't have the women present with the men. they would always be segregated. my brother cooked for the banquet. and he told us, you know, if we could arrange something for him to cook so we could have the banquet in the riverside mosque. he was always a very nice person. very well mannered, a humble person and he -- i mean, always had a smile on his face. recently, he had actually finished memorizing the entire
quran which is big for us as muslims to accomplish. >> you said -- you didn't spend time with her. did he ever talk about her? >> no. he mentioned -- before we had met him all he mentioned was he was going overseas to get married and when he got back, he had been married. >> he had the baby six months ago he showed us the picture on his phone for the baby. so we know for a fact six months ago he looked forward to raising his daughter. >> what do you think happened between then and now? >> we are totally in shock. we don't understand it. if we have to guess, we think something happened in the last,
maybe, month or two month maximum. he stopped coming to the mosque about four weeks ago. we haven't seen him. but we are not surprised because he does not live in san bernardino. he lives in redlands and used to go to riverside. he only came to our mosque because he was inspecting restaurants in san bernardino. when he had a lunch break he would come to pray with us and he would come two to three times a week. now, what happened, i don't know. we are more inclined to believe he had some argument or a fight with his work than to think that this has anything to do with religion. >> did he ever talk about that at work that maybe he was made fun of because of his beard or anything like that? >> no. >> the attorneys are saying that. >> he never really mentioned to us anything about his job whether he had any troubles there or issues about anything whether it is religion or work-related things. every time we would see him we would say how are you doing and how is work and he asked us how
we are doing. >> he liked to fix cars. he talked to us about cars. he never talked about anything personal about his work. >> never anything personal or political or anything other than that. so, i mean -- >> the reports are that there may be -- in that area that you're in, that there is a concern about extremism, r radicalism, what do you say about that that? >> absolutely not. i go to the mosque all the time. i'm really regular and i can tell you that all of us are extremely kind. we care about everybody regardless of their religion. we learn the opposite of hatred. we learn our religion to love others and respect others and if we see someone in harm's way
it's our belief to go help them get out of harm's way. so there's no radical organization in san bernardino or any of my muslim brother who pray at the same mosque. i know all of them and none of them think like that. >> and of course, if we were to know that he was like this, we would be the first to report it to the authorities about him. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> gasser, rahim, thank you. >> you're welcome. >> thank you. >> when we come back, what the fbi found inside the killer's home. a young wife and mother leaves her 6-month-old daughter and joins her husband in a brutal attack that kills 14 people. this is the first photo of tashfeen malik. we're going to tell you what else we're learning about her tonight. believe it.
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the fbi is investigating san bernardino, the massacre as an act of official terrorism, they're saying. the killers were likely self-radicalized. and the female shooter pledged her allegiance to isis. joining me is anthony may, jeffrey toobin, conrad motika, and michael weiss who is a co-author of "isis: inside the army of terror." good to have you hear.
you are surprised this is isis? >> last night i said according to the new york times it seems that the male perpetrator had been in touch with guys that were more affiliated with al shabab. the thing to understand about this is a lot of these sort of networks or the ideology and rhetoric is transferrable. people who join isis, the self-radicalized lone wolf types they start watching the sermons of anwar al awlaki and a lot of the things they get originated with core al qaeda. isis used to be part of al qaeda. >> and inspire magazine. >> it's not as cod codified as that. look at what they've done in the last few months, four major
terrorist attacks. this is the one to cast your lot with. nothing succeeds like success. this is how a lot of people will be drawn to them. >> anthony it's good to have you back. last night i was impressed by the way -- the photos of the evidence were out there and you read them as if it was a script. you knew what it was and where it came from. but you have information on the pipe bombs in the yellow bags. tell us what that is. >> hi, don, certainly. the yellow bag contained several pipes that were put together. the suspicion was that they contained explosive powder or built up pipe bombs. we are learning tonight that that in fact is not the case. i reported last night, what's important is what is missing from that bag. i see no wires or nothing like that. but once the investigators got into it and the bomb technicians disassembled those devices, they
were empty. that doesn't really change anything. because i'm being told that the pipes had drill holes in them. they were ready to be filled with explosive powders that were present at the residence. so we have a combination of parts ready to assemble. >> does this mean that this plan was accelerated the fact that they were empty and they had the explosive things with them? >> what it tells me is there was something bigger planned or there was some plan in the works that for whatever reason it may have got accelerated. if you remember at the center, a bag was left containing similar type pipes and i have one here. just one of the elbow-type pipes. that you can find at a common hardware store. and the three of these were taped together with that toy car and the remote.
and you know, it was filled with powder. now, this is what kind of confused me early on in all of this. is that he left the party upset, goes back gets his wife, gets gun and grabs a bag with a built up device and we found this other bag with potential bombs in it. i felt there was no explosives all along in those bombs. >> jeffrey we witnessed an extraordinary moment when the media was let into the attacker's home. were you surprised by this? the fbi says they were finished at this scene, though. >> i was very surprised by that scene. but i have to say this is where i put on my journalist hat, not my lawyer's hat. there was news in that apartment. and we're journalists. if the landlord is letting us in, i think we have every right to go in there and see what was there. i think it is obviously a major part of this investigation. there was no law enforcement official there saying don't
touch this stuff. the landlord let him in. i think what the journalists did was entirely appropriate. >> anthony i want to ask you, inside the home, cnn was able to view the seizure receipts. what sticks out to you, if anything? >> quite a bit, actually. as i have stated there was something else bigger planned that the return on the search warrant indicated they found several phones, one of them being a nokia phone with no s.i.m. card in it. the nokia phone is what is typically used by the insurgents to attack the coalition forces with timing devices for the pipe bombs or their -- i'm sorry, their devices or explosive devices. but i was sitting in this care with anderson cooper this morning when that occurred and there was a lot of people
setback that this open house event occurred. but you have to understand when -- and especially on the federal side. once we complete the search warrant and we seize item we do a return on the warrant which is what that was. once we do that return and post that return, that is no longer a crime scene. that scene is released back to the owner or occupants. >> conrad you agree? >> i do agree, the evidence response teams they do a very thorough inventory and they leave a receipt behind. that's what was left behind in the apartment. when it is done it is turned over to the original property owner. >> i want to hear more in a little bit. when we come back, attorneys for the shooters, they paint this family a different picture of what the family was like, the couple who killed 14 innocent victims. that's next. woman: my mom and i have the same hands.
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back with my panel. so the attorneys for the shooters' family held a press conference today. take a listen. >> he was a very isolated, introverted individual with really no friends that we could identify, like maybe one friend or no friends. and so, i guess what we would say is that when an incident happens like this when a christian goes to shoot up an planned parenthood or a catholic bombs an abortion clinic. the headlines don't scream catholic. just like right now every headline is atemperaturing muslim to it. there is a tendency to take a cookie cutter version of a terrorist event and superimpose it on a situation just because that person is a muslim belief or tradition.
and i don't think we should jump to too many conclusions. we need to protect the muslim community. >> i see a lot of heads shaking here. what is your reaction? have you seen this 48 hours after the crime, the family for the attorneys -- attorneys for the family doing this? >> it was just a very weird press conference and the problem that hovers all of this is that it has only been -- not even 48 hours yet and we don't know why they did this horrible act. what were their connections if any to terrorism. what was the situation with anger, if any, towards his co workers. you know, the hardest thing for those of us to do in the news business is to admit that we don't know a lot. and here, we don't know a lot. it's very appropriate to investigate whether this is terrorism. that's what the fbi is going. but the lawyers making statements like she is a typical housewife. give me a break.
it's pretty clear she wasn't but what she was remains a big mystery at this point. >> they are refuting, basically saying, insinuating in my estimation that the fbi is just sort of making things up and associating this -- these people with terrorism and there is no connection to it when the fbi is saying what they're -- what the facts are, what they have, at least. >> as mr. toobin said it has been 48 hours. and the fbi has been very measured in terms of its statements. it has been conducting a thorough investigation and as additional evidence comes to light it has classified this as a terrorism investigation. they are basing it on evidence from the scene and things they can't reveal to the public at this time. >> you were shake your head at the statements. >> it came across as defensive. i don't see them saying anything about -- people -- the media who
said this is a workplace dispute or they have gone postal. well, that may be false too. and as konrad points out, the fbi has not made an official statement. the way this happens, the law enforcement is leaking stuff to the press. he was a sweet boy, so quiet and introverted. >> she was just a housewife. >> the caliph of isis was like this when he was interred at camp buka he was a conflict resolution guy. i don't want to hear that either. it's like the onion headline. >> the fbi director james comey he says basically when you look at the cases over the last 10,
15 years they usually find out someone saw something but didn't really say anything. we are hearing everyone saying we department know anything. we were shocked but he stopped coming to the services. what gives here? >> well, i suppose it's possible. you have a couple with a 6-month-old child in an apartment with pipe bombs, assault weapons, masks and vests, does that mean no one visited them in their home? of course it is possible but it makes one wonder. >> anthony, you know, as we look back on the information that we have and as we talk about, you know, what these -- the attorney saying we shouldn't jump to conclusions at this point. this is painting islam in a bad light. the information that the fbi is putting out and the evidence basically, you know, they are
just sort of -- i don't know i don't know if i should say making things up but equating things to this couple that may not necessarily be so. >> don, look, the attorney -- the point he was trying to make is that reality is, religion plays a role in a lot of these. the i.r.a. were predominantly catholics bombing the protestants. but that is immaterial here. it was mentioned here that he became quiet, introverted, kept to himself. but at one time that was a typical profile of a bomber. and the fact that -- did we rush to judgment, labeling terrorism? i got to tell you, i've been working with atf for 20 years and working with the fbi on different cases. this is the first time i have seen the fbi take as measured steps as they did to not raise the terrorism flag initially. but the indications were there.
the -- the devices that were built were very similar to -- or right out of a play book by al qaeda, the inspire magazine talking about, you know, the target selection right out of the inspire magazine. so you know, whether it's -- whether he belonged to a terrorist group, he was inspired by the methodology or the inspiration or whatever term you want to put there. you know, that's where we're at with this. >> i know you want to say something. >> i agree. >> thank you, gentlemen, appreciate it. the shooters' family members say they never saw this come. the woman who says the warning signs were all there. the pursu. it begins from the second we're born. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company
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the shooting. thank you for joining us. the fbi announced today it has taken the lead role in the investigation of the attack in san bernardino and it would be investigating it as an act of terrorism. was this the outcome you had expected? >> well, i mean, listen, a mass shooting happened in america an we sit down and think what could be the cause. is it a crazy person? if it is political violence where does it come from? and as things unfolded yesterday and today, it is clear this is related to islamic terrorism. i applaud the fbi and law enforcement for initially being evidence driven and not jumping to conclusions and we shouldn't jump to conclusions. but, yeah, now, now we know at least we think we know that the
two people involved in the shooting had connections with islamic extremism and were driven by islamic extremist ideology. what we don't know yet is why they chose to attack that particular venue at that particular time. i think that is what the investigation is going to focus o, among other things. and you know, who else is involved, who are the other co-conspirators. >> we have been watching the news all day and the farook family attorneys are denying connections to terrorism. and saying it is too soon to characterize it that way. what do you think? >> i do not believe the farook families. i do not believe the families of the paris terrorist attackers. any family member who is close to their loved ones who say we had no idea what was happening. i beg to disagree with them.
i know there are signs and symptoms they should have seen, that could have seen that house is really very small. there is a 6-month-old baby there. there is a mother looking after the baby. there are packages arriving and people coming and going. there is a lot of activity, farook -- syed farook's father said he comes home to pray and goes back. there is a list of signs that i would look for. i don't know if the fbi looks for that. i don't know if american law enforcement is literate about how people become, you know, they invest in life on earth, they go to work and create and have relationships with non-muslims and the opposite sex and how they witch from that very slowly. sometimes a little faster. for the family members to say we didn't see any of this coming i just don't buy that. >> farook seemed to be living the american dream.
a wife, a baby, a daughter, a good job. he was a devout muslim. what do you think changed to make him give all that up? >> part of it has to do with how you define being a devouted muslim. there are a lot of devouted muslim who say just observe, prayer, fasting, and going to mecca and doing all kinds of charitable activities as they see fit. but it becomes -- i once got attracted to such movements. and there's a very clear change in behavior. and the first group of people who see this, that's the intimate circle of family and relatives and the extended family and then friends and maybe colleagues and neighbors. but these signs are very clear for anyone to see. and i think because we've been politically correct in sort of in the nonwestern con context.
that we can't stop these people. i understand we can stop them but then we have to call things by their name. >> the neighbor said they saw things happening in the house and they were afraid to come forward because they didn't want to be profile anyone. you say it's politically correct culture that we live in. do you think we are too pc when it comes to constructive criticism of islam? >> we are too pc. and that is a self inflicted wound on our western context. if you are a non-muslim and you see things happening that you think -- your gut feeling says this isn't right. this is just so weird and you don't act on it because you don't want to think of yourself as even imagining what these people are doing and you don't
want to think of yourself as a racist or islamaphobic, that's one part of it. but the other part of it is the intimate circle of family and friends where you see your son or your daughter becoming more pious rejecting the way the family believed before, getting more invested in life after death, talking in this jargon, peppering everything with the prophet mohammed said and the quran said, talking about life after death, applying sharia law to yourself. it's two sets of people. the immediate family and then, you know, the neighbors, non-muslim neighbors and non-muslim colleagues. if you tie these two groups of people together, you can -- i think you can get to these
people before they become violent. >> let me talk to you about tashfeen malik, the wife. law enforcement officials say she posted a statement of support for isis leader abu bakr al baghdadi before the attack. she could have been the one to radicalize her husband, farook. his family says he married a terrorist. what do you think of this? >> i don't buy that. he bought these guns a number of years being before he met or married her. i do not like the word radicalization. the word that is more opt is piety. you become pious in a way that makes the people around you feel uncomfortable. he started to show those signs before isis was established and many it this woman. >> there has been tremendous muslim backlash in the united states fighting over the syrian
refugees and comment about closing mosques. can this cause problems if there are people already feeling like outsiders here in the u.s.? >> i don't want to call it a backlash, don. we are not seeing a backlash. what we are seeing is heightened concern. we are seeing terrorist acts committed in the name of islam and the public is responding to that. the public is looking to the people in government and refusing to call this radical islam. i read the new york times. when something like this is reported, read the comments, the ordinary readers call this by their name. people are frightened and confused. i guess that. as of now we are not seeing a backlash and i hope we don't see a backlash. i'm confident that american people are decent people and because of what happened in san bernardino, the average american is not going to respond with violence. but in order to prevent the next
massacre we have to be honest and we will not get this until we really use the vocabulary that the islamists use and unfortunately for the peace-loving, decent muslims, it's a challenge. >> thank you so much. >> don, thank you, thank you for having me. hope we can help. coming up, women and isis, how the terrorists are recruiting them, and what they're planning. this holiday season, get ready for mystery. what's in the trunk? nothing. romance. 18 inch alloys. you remembered. family fun. everybody squeeze in. don't block anyone. and non-stop action. noooooooo! it's the event you don't want to miss. it's the season of audi sales event. get up to a $2,500 bonus for highly qualified lessees on select audi models. at&t and directv are now one.
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. new information about the attackers in san bernardino and it is frightening. joining me is the author of "black flags: the rise of isis." tashfeen malik posted a pledge of allegiance to abu bakr al baghdadi on facebook while the shooting was happening. how would that be sereceived by isis leaders in the middle east? >> isis saying there was plot by supporters of isis. they are not claiming them as members and they are not saying they were responsible for this. they did not say they were part
of this in terms of orchestrating it. >> even if it was inspired by and not directed by, will it have the same effect on isis? >> it helps them because first of all it lets them show -- they have been tweeting they have been making a statement in the u.s. which has claimed to be immune to this kind of attack. it makes them look very potent and they are claiming credit in their own ways. >> let's talk about women here. this is the second time this year we are talking about a women linked to an isis or isis inspired plot. first one was hayat boumeddiene during the attack in january. what is it about the isis message that is appealing to women? >> isis goes after women in a way that other groups don't.
one in ten isis recruits are women an they go after them very specifically for suicide attacks and things like that. often women are not suspected and can get into places more easily. and they bring them over to help and comfort and run police brigades in some of the isis-controlled territories. they want to recruit women and incredibly as repressive as isis is toward women a lot of women sign up to do it. >> so, what about the 6-month-old daughter. that is what everyone is talking about. the city today and asking how h- could they leave their 6-month-old child. is it unusual to have a couple with a young baby to commit this act? >> it is unusual. but one thing to think about, they talk about the martyrs reward, they are going to go to paradise but members of his
family gets rewarded in the afterlife. by becoming a martyr you ensure that your offspring and your parents get heavenly rewards. you can think about it in a way that this family is thinking this is the ultimate insurance policy for their kid. >> they are justifying this through the afterlife? >> we don't know all the details but a lot of these folks talk about this. i'm not just doing this for me but to help my family. >> what is the biggest misconception as we arie lookin at this. how does one decide what is what? they are saying don't grow a beard, be the all-american couple. how does one distinguish behavior that may lend to this activity, it seems like it is becoming harder and harder, even though people are saying i
didn't see anything, the mom was taking care of the baby in the house. but even for people on the outside, how do you figure out what to say? >> that is what is most perplexing about this case to me. there is no clear evidence or signs that these people were radicalizing. often there are, the chattanooga shooter and all of these other shooters there is a trail of evidence. people talk about this person being more withdrawn, if that existed we have not seen evidence of it so far. the problem for law enforcement is that much harder. they have to find a needle in a hay stack. no visible clues, very quiet couple, very inward. no evidence of radicalization or involvement in a radical mosque. >> the question i wanted to ask you, then, what is the biggest misconception americans have about isis is? >> even law enforcement had the
sense that it was self contained in its caliphate. now we see this new phase where they are not just asking people to join them in the caliphate but to do things at home, to destroy and kill, in paris and the west and in the united states and perhaps that's where we are right now. and that's a terrifying place to be. >> joby, warrick. thank you, sir. a new screen for new perspectives. a new pen for new masterpieces. new speakers for a new sound. we reinvented the surface pro. so you can reinvent everything else.
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anderson cooper hosts cnn heroes, sunday night, 8:00 eastern. >> our heroes don't fly. they soar. ♪ and i rise up i rise like the day i rise up -- >> i don't see barriers, i see solutions. ♪ i rise up -- >> connecting with the community help reestablish your faith in humanity. >> love you. >> love you too. >> don't give up on yourself you still worthy. >> see the stars come out to celebrate the change-makers. >> this is a way to pay tribute. >> going to be really, really inspiring. >> welcome to cnn heroes. >> please welcome me in celebrating cnn heroes. >> the top ten cnn heroes of 2015. >> it's an honor to be recognized. >> this is an amazing honor.
>> thank you. >> join anderson cooper for cnn heroes, an all-star tribute, sunday night at 8:00. >> what a week, man. that's it for us, i'll see you back here on monday night. cnn superheroes starts right cnn superheroes starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com ♪ >> you know them as some of your favorite heroes, superheroes and some of the most action packed movie franchises of all times. but these supersee rows have heros of their own. these actors are on the front lines of big battles against domestic violence, disease, and poverty. >> you can start from such a small idea and make large changes. >> and whether it comes from a genuine desire to make the