tv The Lead With Jake Tapper CNN December 16, 2015 1:00pm-2:01pm PST
>> danny, paul, sunny, i cannot thank all of you enough. this is a huge day here for the city of baltimore as a mistrial has been officially declared. i'm brooke baldwin. special live coverage continues now with my colleague jake tapper. this is cnn breaking news. welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we have breaking news off the top in today's national lead. a big decision just coming in from baltimore this hour where a judge moments ago declared a mistrial after a third day of jury deliberations in the first freddie gray trial. william porter was the first of six officers to go on trial. freddie gray of course died back in april after he was dragged into a police van, shackled and never put into a seat belt, according to police. cell phone video of freddie gray's arrest sparked days of protests and destructive riot. cnn's jean casarez joins me now live in baltimore. jean, what can you tell us right now? obviously police are bracing preparing for the worst, hoping
for the best. >> reporter: that's right. i would say the pulse of this community right now is anxious. and overhead we have helicopters, we have just people hustling and bustling, but i think when i look into the eyes of this community, baltimore city, right here where we are, i see sadness. they wanted a verdict. it is obvious they wanted a verdict. i also see some anger. and i also see some fear. some of the members of baltimore city community have told me they do not want unrest in this community. they don't want it to be like it was in april. now, when i was in the courtroom just probably about an hour ago, i watched as the jury came in. and they looked tired. they looked defeated. they looked angry, some of them. and they looked like that they had fought so hard for the side that they were on and did not have that resolution. the judge at that point, and there had been a long sidebar before they came in, and you could tell that the prosecutors were very, very distraught at
what was happening at that moment. and the courtroom was packed. marilyn mosby, the elected states attorney seated in the front row. and the judge said to the jury, i understand you cannot come to a unanimous decision on all four charges, therefore this is a hung jury. and he dismissed the jury at this point. now, this is no win for the defense because the defendant in this case william porter looked very solon and sad himself. and the judge then later announced once the jury had left that tomorrow he wants all attorneys at the administrative judge's office to decide on a new trial date. so this will go forward as a retrial. but it was all very calm yesterday morning because they had their pencils. and they asked for poster board and notebooks. but when we got that they couldn't reach a decision yesterday afternoon, we knew something was up, jake.
>> jean casarez, thank you so much. we'll cheng back with you. we just received a statement from baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings blake saying, we must respect the outcome of the judicial process. in the coming days if some choose to protest peacefully that is their constitutional right. i want to bring in my legal team sunny hostin and cnn senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin and van jones here as well. sunny, what could this mean for the other officers charged in the freddie gray death? is it possible that those cases will now go forward? >> i think it's a possibility in terms of timing. i do think all those cases will be tried. but this is a problem for the prosecution pause the prosecution wanted to try this officer first so in the event of a conviction they could use his statements against the other officers in the event of an acquittal. they would have tried to use his statements against the other
officers. they didn't offer him immunity, so now they're in a situation where they have this charged defendant remaining out there. and they can't have him -- they can't force him to testify against these other officers. so i think this is in many respects a game changer for this prosecution. i'm unclear, i think, as to why they tried this case first. many times you want to send a message to the defense team that you are going to get a conviction. and so the fact that they were unable to secure a conviction does have an impact on all of the other cases. and so i think this is a gamble that was taken by this prosecution, jake. i've been very critical of the decision to try these cases and charge these cases so very quickly. i've been critical of that from the very beginning. and i think that these cases were brought too quickly. and this is the result when you
bring a case too quickly. >> jeffrey, let's go off of what sunny just said. when i was covering what was going on in baltimore, marilyn mosby, the states attorney who brought these cases and gave a speech that many outside baltimore thought was inappropriately political, she was heralded in the streets of baltimore by the community, by the protesters as somebody who was doing right. but at the end of the day, is it possible that this hung jury, this mistrial is an indication that while that might have been a short-term political high, if you'll pardon the expression, at the end of the day these cases weren't ready to go to trial. >> or never should have been brought at all. jake, the technical legal term for the prosecution at this point is up a creek. i mean, they really have big problems here because they were counting on using porter as a witness against the others.
and now he's now in this sort of hyperspace. prosecutors -- when you have hung juries, that is almost always a win for the defense. in american jury trials and criminal cases the prosecution wins somewhere between 80 and 90% of the time. so a hung jury is a defeat for the prosecution, especially when they needed porter to make some of these other cases. now, it's not impossible that at least some of these other cases can go to trial without porter. but his testimony was going to be important. now, there are lots of strategic decisions ahead. they may decide to give up on prosecuting porter, give him immunity and use him as a witness anyway. but that's obviously not a solution they wanted. all of these issues will have to be debated. and the prosecution here is in serious trouble. >> van, let's talk about the judge today denying the jury's request to see the transcripts.
why? >> well, you know, you would think that if a jury is working that hard, struggling that much and wanted a little bit more help and support, the judge would do everything possible. the reality is though a transcript is not in evidence. the videotape is in evidence, whatever notes you took, but a transcript is not formally in evidence until the judge really could not give that over. so now you have a very tough situation. those jurors are the ones who wanted a conviction are going to be very bitter. they're going to be very upset. hopefully they will keep their vow to be quiet, but the reality is you know if you're in baltimore if someone died and you didn't have a police officer involved, all five, six people involved in whatever went down go down on felony murder. in other words, if you're a normal person, if you're a civilian, you're involved in something, you grab somebody, something happens, somebody dies, the convictions go bang, bang, bang. in fact, you don't go to trial. you just plead. so you're going to see people have a reaction in baltimore saying hold on a second.
if this were a normal situation with normal civilians where something happened and somebody died, somebody would do time. the police are probably not going to do time here. there's going to be a concern. that said, i think the mayor is handling this very, very well. i think she's very clear. she's scrambling the resources. last time they said she held back, she's scrambling those resources and sending a message of calm, but this is a very tough pill for this community to swallow. everybody knows a mistrial though it sounds like a neither nor it really is a defeat for the prosecution. >> right now at least she could bring the charges again. who knows. thank you all so much. today's politics lead, who is leaving las vegas with the most chips? donald trump and ted cruz still the two best friends that anyone could have, but did we see the future of this republican race in a different intense tangle? stay with us.
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welcome back to "the lead." you are looking at live pictures out of baltimore. protesters weaving down the streets of that city after a jury declared a mistrial moments ago, or rather the judge declared a mistrial. the jury was hung. the case is involving one of the police officers accused of negligent homicide in the death of freddie gray. we're going to keep an eye on that story throughout the hour especially keeping an eye on what's going on in baltimore. let's turn to our politics lead now. maybe it was destiny that in the last republican debate of 2015 the two candidates who seemed fated to collide finally did. no, i'm not talking about donald trump and jeb bush 2.0, i'm talking about senator marco rubio and senator ted cruz. the senators so alike on superficial surface levels, both children of cuban immigrants, former tea party darlings, insurgent candidates that beat
long odds in the republican establishment to get to washington, but last night they never seemed more different on the stage sparring with new urgency on the national security debate after the chilling terrorist massacres in paris and san bernardino, california. topics such as surveillance and defense spending and isis and immigration put rubio and cruz in what seemed sometimes like a constant split-screen shouting match. cnn's in los angeles. that's where ted cruz is today with his newfound momentum. sunlen, the new co-front-runner in iowa or front-runner, depending on what poll you're looking at. last night ted cruz seemed more after going rubio rather than the front runner with whom he's statistically tied in iowa in donald trump. >> that's right, jake. i asked cruz moments ago here in los angeles is that a sign he's getting nervous about marco rubio and he said quite opposite. he thinks it's marco rubio the
nervous one here. this is a battle that's been brewing for quite some time and has finally boiled over. the gop field leaving las vegas with new battle lines drawn. >> everyone on that stage talks tough. it's easy to stand here tonight -- or this morning and say we're going to utterly destroy isis, we're going to blow them up, we're going to make the sand glow. that's easy to say. what are you going to do that with? >> reporter: the sparring with marco rubio and ted cruz moving from the debate stage to the campaign trail today. >> i think senator rubio's campaign understands that if conservatives continue to unite they don't have a path to victory, and so their only hope is to try to launch false attacks. >> reporter: the rivalry between the two first-term senators revealing divisions within the republican party. on government surveillance. >> we are at a time when we need more tools, not less tools. the tool we lost, the metadata program was a valuable tool we no longer have at our disposal. >> senator cruz. >> well, i would note marco
knows what he's saying isn't true. >> reporter: cruz trying to draw contrast on vulnerabilities, his work on a comprehensive immigration bill that included a path to citizenship. >> there was a battle over amnesty. and some chose like senator rubio to stand with barack obama and chuck schumer and support a massive amnesty. >> i'm always puzzled by his attack on this issue. you support people in this country illegally. >> to suggest our records are the same is like suggesting the fireman and arsonist have the same record because they're both at the scene of the fire. >> reporter: pressing cruz to define his immigration stance. >> does ted cruz rule out ever legalizing people in this country illegal now? do you rule it out? >> i have never supported legalization. and i do not intend to support legalization. >> reporter: that largely shadowed the focus on the front-runner. >> i went into this and heard all of them were going to come at me. 14 of them was going to come at
me. i was prepared. >> reporter: tried to stay above the fray on the candidate stage. >> he's a chaos candidate. and he'd be a chaos president. >> reporter: even while jeb bush had him in his sights. >> i think jeb is a very nice person. very nice person, but we need tough people. build up your energy, jeb, but it's not working very well. i'm at 42 and you're at 3. so far i'm doing better. >> doesn't matter. >> reporter: in a big shift from just days ago trump backing off his charge that cruz doesn't have the right temperament to be president. >> i've gotten to know him over the last three or four days. he has a wonderful temperate. he's just fine. don't worry about it. >> reporter: and back on that cruz battle that's really that new front that's opened up from last night's debate certainly shows that each of these candidates really understand the threat that the other one poses to their path ahead. so, jake, we'll certainly be seeing this dynamic really play out in the days to come, jake. >> sunlen, thank you so much. let's talk about how the candidates acquitted themselves last night with two of the people who peppered the
republicans with questions, cnn chief political correspondent dana bash and conservative talk radio giant hugh hewitt. congr congr congratlations to both of you. last night you did an expert job. dana, you asked a question that ignited this heated exchange between rubio and cruz on immigration. we heard the back and forth in sunlen's piece. rubio says cruz believes a lot of the same things he does, doesn't understand why this line of attack. cruz says there's an ocean's length of distance between them. but let's fact check this for a second. when rubio was working with the gang of eight, kmkts and republicans pushing his immigration reform bill that would have offered a path to citizenship for the undocumented immigrants in this country, cruz did offer an amendment that took away the path to citizenship but kept a path to legal status. is that right? >> it is right but it's part of the alice in wonder land part of congress that we see sometimes. because what you see -- what it appears to be isn't really the
meaning. so let me just explain that. yes, it is accurate that ted cruz did offer an amendment to allow undocumented immigrants to stay legally, but the reason he did that was what is called on capitol hill a poison pill. he only offered that to try to kill that piece of legislation. >> that's not what he said at the time. >> to try to bring it in. he didn't say that at the time because he didn't want to show his hand. i'm not defending it, but jeff sessions, one of the most anti-illegal immigration senators out there voted for it as well. so it was a parliamentary trick or maneuver to try to kill the entire thing that didn't work. but i will say just the fact that rubio brought this up and the fact that we're talking about this and notd the path to citizenship that rubio supports, that was clearly very well rehearsed. he knew he was going to get the question. and he wanted to try to shift the conversation back onto cruz. big liability for rubio. >> hugh, ted cruz said last
night that he doesn't intend, doesn't intend to support legalizing undocumented immigrants. in my interview with senator cruz after the debate i said what would you do about the 11 million undocumented immigrants, he said he would enforce the law. there are a lot of conservatives say it sounds like he's building in a little wiggle room. what do you think? >> i think the conservative republican primary voter finally got the debate they wanted last night largely because dana knows this issue up and down and she set it up for five debates the immigration debate has been off to the side, not completely avoided, but there have been other issues that have dominated. primarily donald trump's commanding lead and his presence in the race last night because dana i think has covered this on the hill she was able to bring very specific questions that allowed a lot of republican primary voters to see those two superstars of the future. let's be clear marco rubio and ted cruz are the future of the republican party. they're incredibly able. they are both first generation americans of immigrant parents of extraordinary eloquent
ability. and a lot of charisma. and so because dana had the background from the hill it was able to be put front and center. i'm not surprised it's dominating the day after conversation because that's what a lot of republican primary voters want to have thrashed out on tv in front of a large audience. and i saw the numbers this morning. it was an enormous number of people watching that exchange. and they got it. >> hugh and i bonded during the days and days of prep. >> you guys are best tys, i'm a little jealous. dana, outside governor bush there weren't many republicans on stage or any willing to really take on donald trump especially on the issue of this proposed ban of muslims entering the u.s. why do you think that is? >> the numbers. two reasons. one is the republican candidates and their campaigns woke up and saw several polls that showed a majority of republican voters think that donald trump is right. now, whether or not that is going to bear out to be true, who knows. but they don't want to risk it at this point in the election
cycle. and the second is, even if it weren't true, nobody has come out of attacking donald trump unscathed, particularly on a debate stage. so why bother? and for jeb bush, look, he has gone in as the establishment guy, gone in as the guy especially on issues of kind of inclusiveness, whether it was hispanics or others that he's going to kind of be the one to defend what he considers the republican brand and the right thing to do. and i don't think that he feels like he has a lot to lose. and he wants to be who he is. and that's why he did it. >> hugh, jeb bush today trying to turn this into a pitch on the campaign trail, to donors, to supporters, he'll stand up to trump. do you think that could move the needle for him? >> i think it helped him last night. i gave the gold to chris christie. and if i can overwork an analogy, if you've seen the movie "creed," spoiler alert coming. body blows like rubio and chris last night. but chris christie was rocky.
he stood over there and had a few home runs and he got back into this race in new hampshire. so those three came out, but governor bush gave himself new life, new lift. i think if you look at the end of the debate last night, people are talking about those five people. donald trump, who many people think won the debate again. he's very commanding lead in the polls. he was very confident in the spin room. chris christie had a great night. jeb bush came back into the race. and then you had marco and ted throwing punches at each other. that's really the takeaway for me. and i also want to say it's the most substantive foreign policy debate that i can ever remember having and 18 million people watch it. i'm stunned to hear that number of people sticking around to hear talking about assad, iran, carpet bombing is appropriate, i was impressed the audience wanted to watch that. they'll be talking about it at christmas dinner. and i think that's what the intent was of the debate. >> great. hugh hewitt, dana bash, thank you to both of you and superb job again. will we see ted cruz surge in
the polls after his debate performance last night? one man in the cruz camp is banking on it. he'll join me next to talk about the senators tactics and plans going forward. stay with us. [sfx: bell] [burke] it's easy to buy insurance and forget about it. but the more you learn about your coverage, the more gaps you may find. [burke] like how you thought you were covered for this...
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our next guest says senator ted cruz has a, quote, titanium spine and he showed it last night showing he was more than ready to trade punches with senator marco rubio. while cruz held ramrod firm whenever pitted against rubio, it has to be said he was a little more pliable when matched up against the front-runner donald trump. i want to talk about senator cruz's performance last night with bob vanderplatts, endorsement hotly pursued and ultimately went to cruz for whom he fund raises. live from urbandale, iowa. thanks for joining us. >> good to be with you, jake. >> i know you thought senator cruz won the debate. who else on stage impressed you though? >> well, you know, i was in the environment i was front row sitting with heidi cruz and the girls, and first of all it was a great environment. and i thought it showcased republicans very well. however, i do believe that cruz was firm and people can see him as a commander in chief.
and i thought rand paul kind of came into his own again. and people reminded why they like rand paul. but rand paul was also very beneficial for ted cruz when he took on marco rubio saying, hey, there's some discrepancies here. you want to talk about national security and border security, the gang of eight thing left us extremely exposed. so i think rand paul gave a great assist to ted cruz last night. >> people forget rand paul a year ago was a front-runner. your candidate came out swinging last night. let's listen to how he started the debate. >> america's at war. our enemy is not violent extr e extremi extremism. it is not some unnamed ed malevolent force. it is radical terrorists. we have a president unwilling to utter its name. the men and women on this stage, every one of us, is better prepared to keep this nation safe than is barack obama or hillary clinton.
>> that's tough talk, red meat, what the base wants to hear policy wise though how would ted cruz's war against isis differ from president obama's beyond an intensified air campaign? >> well, first of all, i think what ted cruz did there is first of all he united republicans on stage saying any one of us better than hillary clinton and barack obama. but two is, he is sending a message to isis. there will be a new sheriff in town. just like when ronald reagan came in and the iranian hostages and jimmy carter was president. as soon as reagan came in, the people holding the iranian hostages, they knew reagan meant business. i think that's what you'll see with a president ted cruz. they'll know he means what he says. and he will do what needs to be done to keep this country safe. >> all right. bob vander plaats, thank you so much. we'll see you on the campaign trail. >> look forward to see you, jake. it was one of many ideas presented with national security
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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we're going to continue now with our politics lead. republican presidential hopefuls battled last night over national security. each one trying to convince the american public that he or she is most fit to be commander in chief. there are major policy differences within the gop field on issues such as regime change
in the middle east or defense spending. the u.s. role in fighting isis and just how the u.s. can best win the global war on terror. cnn's chief national security correspondent jim sciutto is here to help us separate fact from fiction. jim, let's start with donald trump who suggested shutting down the internet. he then clarified to talk about shutting it down in parts of the arab world to help defeat and destroy isis. is that a reasonable proposal? >> well, jake, you heard senator ted cruz talk about carpet bombing isis. this might be the internet or the technological equivalent of carpet bombing as senator rand paul pointed out last night that there's certainly freedom of expression implications of that, but also practical implications because it's not really the way the internet works. there's no great chinese firewall like you have in china. it's just such an open system. and from my perspective that was one of the headlines of this debate. very bold foreign policy national security pronouncement.
some of them a bit hard to back up. >> we have people across this country who are scared to death. >> in the wake of the largest terror attack on u.s. soil since 9/11, the republican presidential candidates delivered tough talk on national security. >> this president hasn't kept us safe. >> still their command of some of the defense topics was, well, up for debate. senator ted cruz has said he would launch an indiscriminate bombing campaign against isis, a tactic known as carpet bombing. as opposed to the surgical strikes the u.s. currently uses. >> would you carpet bomb raqqah, the isis capital where there are a lot of civilians, yes or no? >> you would carpet bomb where isis is, not a city, but the location of the troops. you use air power directed and you have embedded special forces to direct the air power. >> but directed strikes, as he calls them, are the opposite of carpet bombing. >> we need a president -- >> reporter: the senator also blamed the obama administration for not identifying social media
posts made by san bernardino shooter tashfeen malik before being granted a visa to the u.s. >> we didn't monitor the facebook posting of the female san bernardino terrorist because the obama dhs thought it would be inappropriate she made a public call to jihad and they didn't target it. >> reporter: while it's true malik's social media trail was not reviewed during the visa process, her views on jihad would not have been found without a warrant because they were expressed in private direct messages, not in public social media postings. cnn's jake tapper pressed cruz on the issue. >> that's my understanding is that the message that she wrote was, first of all, in another language, second of all in a pseudonym and third of all in a private message she was sending back and forth with friends. >> if we're not capable of understanding urdu, we shouldn't be processing visa applications -- >> but this wasn't posted on her page. this was a private message.
>> we should be directing our attention to focusing on radical islamic terrorism. >> we should be able to penetrate the internet -- >> donald trump advocates shutting down parts of the internet to cut office i isis's access to the web. >> would you be open to closing areas of the internet. >> i would be open to closing areas where we are at war with somebody. i sure as hell don't want to let people that want to kill us and kill our nation use it to hurt us. yes, i am. >> reporter: seemed stumped on the nation's nuclear triad, capabilities to launch from the air, land and sea. >> there are three legs of the triad, do you have a priority? >> i think to me nuclear is just the power the devastation is very important to me. >> senator rubio, do you have a response? >> i do. first let's xplain to people at home what the triad is. maybe a lot of people haven't heard that terminology before. >> it was another sensitive moment in the debate last night when senator rubio seemed to be
implying that senator cruz had released classified information as relates to the intelligence community's ability to access metadata, phone calls. we learned just a short time ago that senator richard burr as well as the vice chairman have announced they are not investigating any comments from last night's debate as a violation of -- or release rather, jake, of classified information. >> all right, jim sciutto, thanks so much. with national security a top concern, the department of homeland security is updating how it advises you, the public, of a terror alert. is it enough after watching attacks in paris and san bernardino? and, the money lead, for the first time in nearly ten years interest rates are going up. what this might mean for anyone in the market for a new home, new car or even for the savings account at your bank. now that we've added an adjustable base, my favorite part is to be able to lift your legs up a little bit... ...and it feels like i'm just cradled. at mattress firm get zero percent apr
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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. topping our national lead. some new details on the san bernardino terrorist attack. the fbi director james comey today saying the terrorists syed farook and his wife tashfeen malik that they pledged their allegiance to violent jihad online using private direct messages two years ago before ever meeting in person. comey warned yet again today about the, quote, going dark challenge for law enforcement
would-be terrorists using encrypted technology to discuss plans to unleash deadly carnage undetected. that's what he means by going dark. this all comes as the department of homeland security announced updates to the u.s. terror advisory system. let's get right to cnn's justice correspondent pamela brown. pamela, there are reports that tashfeen malik posted her views online. you heard in the last block senator ted cruz talking about that how we should have been able to see these facebook messages. director comey tried to bring some clarity to that reporting. >> that's right. it was clear today that the fbi director sought to set the record straight on this issue, jake, saying that nothing in this investigation so far has shown that the u.s. government missed any red flags on either of the terrorist social media pages. today, fbi director james comey made it clear the married terrorists syed farook and tashfeen malik did not publicly post anything on social media that the fbi could have picked up on.
but rather communicated privately about jihad away from the eyes of law enforcement. >> in late 2013 before there is a physical meeting of these two people and resulting in their engagement and journey to the united states, they are communicating online showing signs in that communication of their joint commitment to jihad and to martyrdom. >> reporter: to-date for the first time the fbi called another attack on american soil terrorism. the murder by mohamed abudlazeeza in july. >> in my mind there's no doubt that the chattanooga chiller was inspired, motivated by foreign terrorist organization propaganda. >> reporter: director comey and homeland security secretary jeh johnson both spoke today of the fear americans currently feel, but assured the nation the country is safe. secretary johnson announced an update to the country easter richl advisory system adding a
third level called a bulletin aimed at describing current threat trends to the public. >> we want to put in one place for the public to see what we are seeing concerning the homeland and what we are doing about it and what the public can do about it. >> and meantime fbi director james comey also saying today that there's still no indication that terrorists in san bernardino were linked to any foreign terrorist organizations. meanwhile, we learned today president obama will visit san bernardino friday to meet with the victims' families. >> on his way to hawaii for vacation. pamela brown, thanks so much. joining me right now to talk more about this michael che cherthoff, co-founder of a global security group that does some work for the government and also adviser to presidential candidate jeb bush. thanks for being here. really appreciate it. now, you understand the terror threat to the homeland as well as anybody. how hard is it to balance not wanting people to panic while at
the same time wanting them to be informed? >> well, i think it's important to inform people, but it's also important not to overstate the specificity of the threat. and remember, we've had this situation for almost 15 years since 9/11. right after 9/11 we didn't know what was coming at us, we didn't have an architecture for security. and yet we were able to assure the public that vigorous action would prevent other attacks. and frankly we're quite successful. if you look historically over the last 15 years i think there have been approximately 40 or 45 people in the u.s. or other americans who've been killed relatively small compared to what we feared we would face in 2001. so we haven't done a perfect job, and i don't think the public can expect perfection. but there is a very robust intelligence and security architecture in place. >> in fact it feels like every week or so the department of justice or the fbi puts out an alert about an arrest that's been made. one thing that i always wondered is how many of these fbi agents
doing this undercover work and snagging these terrorists before they can act, how many of them are muslim-americans? >> you know, i think probably the number is relatively small. but of course in the essence of an undercover is you're pretending to be somebody you're not. aufb you have an informant and it could be an informant from the community that makes the introduction and then drops out. but the key here is what you're trying to do is to intercept a plot before it gets off the ground. and when you get an indication someone is beginning to think about a plot, that's the time you want to swoop in and attract them and get them off the playing field. >> at last night's debate one issue that came up were the changes made to the nsa's data collection system. the changes limited the access in terms of the immediacy to the metadata, but expanded some of the data. cruz and rubio went back and forth on that. bottom line, do you think the intelligence community has what they need to stop an attack? >> let me begin by saying what
we call metadata, which is literally what number called what number, what ip address contacted what ip address, is maybe among the most important intelligence tools you have because you're looking for needles in the haystack and you have to get the haystack in order to get the needles. what's happened is we've moved the haystack out of the custody of the government back into private hands. two things are critical -- >> the phone companies and technology companies. >> correct. two things critical, one, there has to be a technology platform that allows you to search quickly over all of these databases in realtime. and second, they've got to store the data. so if companies start to delete data too quickly, that's going to become a problem. i think those are the two areas i would focus onto make sure we still get the benefit of this program. >> does the u.s. have immediate access to that information if they need it? >> i think right now as they're trying the new technology and system out what they're testing to see is in fact how quickly can we get access to the data,
how complete is the search across the databases. one of the reasons i think the government wanted to wait a little bit and phase things is was to complete that testing, but i'm quite sure if there's a problem they're going to come back to congress and say you've got to fix this. >> donald trump the republican front-runner obviously raised a lot of eyebrows when he talked about a total complete ban on muslims coming into the u.s. jeb bush and others have made the case that actually makes us less safe. lindsey graham very passionate last night saying you're making the world more dangerous. what do you think? >> look, this is speaking from a personal standpoint. i think it would be a huge mistake to ban all muslims from coming into the country. it would be a huge overreaction. and it would be the single best propaganda gift we could give isis because they would say, you see, the westerners, christians, jews, they hate all muslims and put muslims in a position to feel, my god, the only game in town now is to go with the extremists. we've got to do the opposite. we've got to identify the people who are a real threat.
and there are some real threats out there. but for others who participate fully in the life of this country many of whom serve in the armed forces or the intelligence community, they've got to feel as if they continue to be full partners in american life. >> when i asked donald trump about this, he said, jake, we got to do something. we got to do something. this is a real problem. >> well, you got to do something intelligent. just throwing, you know, spaghetti against the wall to see what will stick is not very intelligent. what's intelligent here is to use the ability to focus on the metadata and other intelligence capabilities to identify people who are dangerous and to get the community including the muslim community to speak up when they see somebody in their recruiting. that's how you do something smart to enlist all of the tools of national power to protect ourselves. >> last night a lot of the republican candidates criticized president obama and hillary clinton for not using the term radical islamic terrorism, or radical islamic jihad. i know this was an item debated
a lot in the bush administration as well. what do you think? does it help isis and al qaeda if the term islamic is used by an american leader? >> you know, when i was in office i went around and met not only with community leaders here in the u.s. but overseas including arab countries. they told me they tended to use the phrase radical or violent islamist, islamist meaning political ideologies opposed to religious ideology. but they didn't shy away from identifying these ideological fanatics as trying to cloak themselves in islam and using cherry picking islamic terms in order to try to broaden their appeal. so i think we are being overly solicitous if we don't recognize that there's a connection between the ideology and the effort to recruit from the religion. but we have to distinguish between the political ideology, which is only a narrow band of what goes on, and the broader group of muslims who don't subscribe to it. >> so basically you say islamism
or islamist. >> i say violent islamism or extreme slauchlism. that's the phrase i use. >> michael chertoff, thank you so much. appreciate it. the money lead, no more borrowing money for next to nothing. the feds just announced interest rates are going up. it's not all bad news. how it could mean more cash for you in the long run. we'll have that story for you next.
let's go to baltimore where the mayor and police commissioner are speaking after the jury could not reach a verdict in the freddie gray trial. >> we have worked relentlessly to unite baltimore with a resolve to have peace in our streets. we have a chance to show the country how to be heard peacefully, respectfully and effectively. i know that as a community we are up to the task. thank you. >> thank you, mayor. for the protesters and there are certainly protesters out on our streets right now. and there will be in the days to come. we respect the right of americans to protest. protesters lawfully assembled have a friend in the baltimore police department. we are here to serve as peace keepers quite frankly. so we respect the right to protest. and we respect protesters and
what they have meant for so many years in this great country of ours. and those protesters who were lawfully assembled again will find our police department respects them and we'll do everything we can to afford them the ability to protest in this city. folks who choose to commit crimes and hurt people and break things and harm people are no longer protesters. you lose your ability to call yourself a protester when you choose to harm people and destroy property. so i think that's something we've spoken about for a few months now. i believe the vast majority of folks quite frankly understand that very, very well. we too respect the criminal justice process in this country. and we exist to protect it. and we pledged to this city both our police department and our fire department, and we have fire chief niles ford here with us today, our pledge to the
folks in baltimore is one of public safety. we're here to protect. we're here to serve and we take that responsibility very, very seriously. thank you. >> did anyone have any brief questions? >> commissioner davis, you had said you were monitoring social media on april 27th, is there any signs similar to disturbance that you had seen that you're monitoring on social media now? >> we continue to monitor social media. we have a pretty robust system in place to make sure we have every capacity available to identify things we should know about. and right now there's nothing that concerns us, nothing that has been brought to our attention at this moment that doesn't give us the impression of any type of wrongdoing whatsoever. >> commissioner, i know your -- limited in what you could say, but one of your officers -- now
this trial declared a mistrial, what's your reaction to that? >> well, my reaction is it's part of this process. and this great american criminal justice process and many americans think that it's imperfect our criminal justice process. maybe it is imperfect, but it sure beats what comes in second. i think we all have to respect the process. the process is ongoing. it's not the last time we'll talk about it. and i think we have to be consistent, measured and thoughtful as we go forward because baltimore needs to know their police department of all groups of people have to respect the criminal justice process. and we do. >> commissioner, officer porter's status remains stam as it was this morning? >> right. he remains suspended without pay. >> any other questions? [ inaudible question ] >> i guess briefly we have many, many partners here and i'll say one thing about maryland law enforcement, there's no other place in the country -- and i'm
biased, that does this thing better than maryland public safety. we really have come together as a team to ensure this great city is protected. i do know that the sheriff's department has made a couple of arrests, i'm not sure the exact nature of those arrests. i'm sure that's something they'll be addressing as the night moves on. [ inaudible question ] >> we have many strategies in place in west baltimore, east baltimore, south baltimore, north baltimore, throughout the city to ensure that the peace is kept. i intend to visit west baltimore later tonight. as you probably know there's been groups of faith-based folks who have spent the last couple nights in west baltimore at north and penn holding hands speaking with one another saying prayers for this great city. and i intend to join them later tonight as a show of unity and a show of peace. happening now, bin