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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  December 16, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PST

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but i have to think that that will change coming in the new year, when ted cruz continues to ascend here. for today, at least, he did not talk about him at all. he seemed to relish going after jeb bush again. donald trump had more words for jeb bush. but for ted cruz, it's all happiness and hugs and light. we'll see if that keeps up. i'm not sure it will. >> happiness, hugs, and light. ted cruz spent more time last night squaring off with marco rubio than trump. for that, let's go to sunlen serfati in los angeles. did cruz address trump at all today? >> reporter: well, keeping in line with last night's debate, anderson, ted cruz said not a single bad word about donald trump today. it was all positive. and he really seemed to go out of his way to praise donald trump today, saying he's energized and happy that a lot of voters will potentially coming out to vote. this is a well-masked strategy by ted cruz here, making sure he doesn't alienate trump's supporters, wants to woo them over to his side, if they should come. and he seems for the most part really determined to stick to
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that strategy, at least publicly, and for the short term, really hone in his sights on marco rubio. >> and he's suggesting rubio's campaign is now nervous. what do you have to say about that? >> reporter: that's right. at least four times today, ted cruz mentioned that he does think that rubio and his campaign are getting a little nervous. and that was the reason he said he thinks they clashed repeatedly during last night's debate. but this, of course, has been a battle that is a long time coming between the two senators, really previewing, potentially, how this dynamic could play out on the campaign trail and will continue to dominate, most likely. very clear that both of these senators understand the real clear threat that the other poses to their path forward and they're ready to take each other on. >> sunlen, thank you very much. joining us now is chief national correspondent, john king, also "washington post" syndicated columnist, conservative, kathleen parker, and jeffrey
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lord, a trump supporter and served as white house political director during the reagan administration. it was interesting to see trump and cruz finding new ways to stay out of each other's way in the debate last night. >> yes, i think the comments were just exactly right. they're obviously trying not to alienate each other's followings, in the hopes that, should obviously one of them is going to leave the other one behind, so they want to be able to bring those supporters with them. >> and actually polls kind of show that for trump supporters, for a lot of them, their second choice would be cruz, same with dr. carson. their second choice would be cruz. >> and there are really such different candidates, cruz is really -- he's got such a sophisticated ground game. he's been working on his infrastructure all along, sort of. for a while, off the radar a bit, and now he's kind of, he's the horse at the backside, pulling up. and ahead of everyone else -- >> not just a ground game in iowa. >> it's all over, yeah. he's got the -- sort of got what mitt romney wants. so he's in a good position to play the long game. and i do think he is probably -- i would predict he's going to win iowa.
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and then i don't know what mr. trump feels about that. and how he -- because he has always talked about the polls. what you have to realize is that all he talks about. if there's no polls to cite. when he can't keep saying, i'm winning, i'm winning, he's not talking about anything substantiative in there at all. all we're hearing about is, he's winning. so when he doesn't win, i don't know about what's left. >> john, how do you see marco rubio playing into all of this? he seems to be a candidate that has consistently played a long game, waiting for others to drop off. even if that may not actually happen? >> that may not happen until after new hampshire. part of the question for marco rubio's lane in this race. he's been patient, but he's in a pretty distant third or fourth place, lumped with dr. carson. and you have trump and cruz at the top. the question in this race, really, is how many lanes do we have? ted cruz is a classic evangelical candidate who, i agree with kathleen, is surging
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in iowa right now. he also adds in a significant party element. those are the two energetic bases of the republican party right now. if cruz gets a big win in iowa, what does trump do? does he go on to try to win new hampshire, or does he somehow fundamentally change the campaign? we have the evangelical tea party candidate in cruz. we have the disruptive outsider in donald trump, who's not really an ideological candidate, he's a disruptive force in the republican party. and will there be a mainstream establishment candidate? and marco rubio wants to be that candidate. he's ascendant at the moment, but jeb bush still wants to be that candidate. chris christie wants to be that candidate. john kasich wants to be that candidate. of the outsiders, you could say carly fiorina could be that kind of a candidate. well, not all of them can survive. so the question for marco rubio is, yeah, he's a good debater,
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yeah, he's moving up right now, but where is he going to win? >> and jeff, for donald trump, for your candidate, to kathleen's point, if in iowa, if he does not win, what happens? if he doesn't have a poll to tout, does he just move on, move to new hampshire or south carolina? >> sure, of course. which is -- that's exactly, as a matter of fact, what happened to ronald reagan. he lost iowa to george h.w. bush. and he went right on to new hampshire and won new hampshire is and then on to south carolina, et cetera. and as a matter of fact, he lost some more primaries to bush along the way. he lost my home state of pennsylvania in april of 1980. you know, well down the road. so, this is going to be a long march here. this is not going to be decided in iowa or new hampshire, either. we're going to go on for quite some time. and that's where you get into questions of organization and money and resources and all that. >> kathleen, how vulnerable do you think marco rubio is on immigration? given his past legislative record? >> well, very. i mean, that's a problem for him. and that sort of explains the animus between him and ted cruz, too. nobody -- none of ted cruz's
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colleagues like him, because he's always been about himself, primarily. and he can work with the house to shut down the government. so, you know, they very much resent him. and then he's also taking pride, cruz is, in reminding people that he actually fought marco rubio on his immigration plans. so he can kind of stand out in the, you know, as sort of the fighters against immigration, versus poor marco who is trying to do what i think most americans should be done. >> john, just last -- sorry, go ahead, jeff. >> anderson, one thing that i think we're not thinking about here, in all the presidential history, only three united states senators have gone from the senate to the white house directly. president obama, president kennedy, and president warren harding. we've had lots and lots and lots of senators, some of them very well known, like ted kennedy, barry goldwater, george mcgovern, others who either run for president and get the nomination or get the nomination and lose the white house itself, so i think that perhaps where we may be looking at a phenomenon here of two senators battling here, and whether or not they'll emerge, whether their job itself
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is innately a problem for them. i think we'll find out. >> that's interesting. >> john, how long do you see this going? how long does this race go on for? >> i wish i had that crystal ball. but, you know, we're in role reversal this year. and it looks like, now, bernie sanders is still an incredible candidate, don't get me wrong, but look at data and say you can see the democratic race ending relatively soon. hillary clinton has a chance to put it away relatively soon. it's the almost it's your turn candidate we normally have in the republican primaries. this republican race, let's assume cruz wins iowa. now, this is why you have to keep an eye on ted cruz. iowa does not have a great history of picking presidential nominees. yes, george w. bush won for republicans and went on to win the nomination. mike huckabee won there. he was a one-state wonder. rick santorum won there. he went on to win 11 other
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states, but mitt romney had it locked up by then. santorum won some of those states simply because he wasn't mitt romney and you got down to that point in the race. the republican party changed its calendar this year. you have the s.e.c. primary on march 1st. alabama, arkansas, georgia, tennessee, texas, virginia, louisiana, florida, are right around those state as well. some other states as well, ted cruz is not mike huckabee or rick santorum. he has a good organization, a good team, and anderson, he has money. if this race stretches on, this race stretches on, that's the question. will trump start digging into his own pockets. he will have to spend more of his own money if this becomes a long protracted race. he hasn't spent a ton of it so far. he's not airing tv ads. will he make that strategic decision, i'm in for the long run, or will losing a state or two change the calculation. this could go on for quite some time. kathleen parker, good stuff. john just mentioned south carolina, how the debate played there last night. 150 voters who watched with our gary tuchman told them who they thought won the night. we'll show you that, and the
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breaking news in baltimore, protests calm after a hung jury and a mistrial in the freddie gray case. the jury deadlocked after deliberating for less than three days. we'll talk about that when we continue. ♪ it's the final countdown! ♪ ♪ the final countdown!
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as we've said, 18 million people watched last night's debate in las vegas. the third most watched debate in television history. viewers heard a lot of tough talk on national security. they also saw a two-hour tour de force of non-verbal communication. donald trump's facial expressions during the two-hour
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debate have gone viral online. looks like "the brady bunch" there. there were moments of levity last night, as well. the topics, though, deadly serious. our gary tuchman watched the debate with a group of 150 voters in south carolina, a hugely important state in the primary race. the third state to vote, of course, after the iowa caucuses and the new hampshire primary, which means it could tip the race in a crucial direction. with that in mind, here's what gary heard from the voters after the debate. >> reporter: a packed movie theater in charleston county, south carolina. the crowd about to watch the cnn republican presidential debate. >> we want to ask you who you are supporting for president as of now? hillary clinton? [ laughing ] >> reporter: these are all loyal republicans. we watched with them to see their reactions to the one-liners. >> he said, all horse thieves are democrats, but not all democrats are horse thieves. >> if you want something talked about, ask a man. if you want something done, ask a woman.
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>> reporter: we watched the reactions to the insults. >> donald, you know, is great at the one-liners, but he's a chaos candidate. and he would be a chaos president. he would not be the commander in chief we need -- >> jeb said, when they come across the southern border, they come as an act of love. >> you said on september 30th that isis is not -- >> am i talking or are you talking, jeb? >> reporter: but for most of the debate, the crowd was quiet and studiously analyzing. when it was all over, linda yarborough said trump was the winner. >> i think he's gotten stronger and better in each debate, but he's very clear and very
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desizei. >> reporter: amber haber says carson was the best. >> he brings class to every situation that he's asked about. he spoke with poise, he was articulate. he was clear and he was likable, which is something that the other candidates are lacking. >> reporter: and langdon elrod says she likes rubio. >> i don't know if he was number strong.t i think he was very >> reporter: who do you think was nrm one? >> i would have to say ted cruz, because he butt in a lot. >> reporter: cruz also cracked some jokes here many enjoyed. >> we will build a wall that works and i'll get donald trump to pay for it. >> reporter: sullivan says cruz was the winner. >> i think that he's becoming more and more likable to people, as they get to know him. >> reporter: 135 of the people here participated in a movie theater straw poll. and i will tell you that the winner, number one in the straw poll vote, who did the best during this debate, in charleston, south carolina, was ted cruz. 31 votes. >> reporter: cruz may have come out on top, but all the candidates got votes. an indication this first southern state to cast ballots is very much in play. gary tuchman, cnn, charleston, south carolina. >> and back with our panel, john king, south carolinian kathleen parker, and jeffrey lloyd. kathleen, you got your start in
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the business in south carolina. >> i did. i'm hesitant to say when that was, because that makes me far older than i could possibly be. but i did cover the first republican primary. >> south carolina could play an incredibly important role, because we saw iowa in the past, all the attention paid to it. huckabee and santorum did well there. didn't translate to them actually get the nomination. >> the south carolina primary was created in 1980, it's just that recent. it was also designed to sort of break the sort of, the insurgent candidate. get rid of them, especially if they were anti-establishment. and get everyone unified around a certain candidate, finally, and once and for all, but i don't know how that works with donald trump. he is now leading. but it's a very important state.
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everybody who has -- has won the south carolina primary has gone on to become the convention nominee with the exception of newt gingrich, who did win that primary and of course, mitt romney was the nominee that year. but it is sort of historically, you know, the tiebreaker, the one that identifies who the candidate is most likely to be. >> john, to kathleen's point, do you think too much attention is paid on iowa and new hampshire? south carolina is only 11 days after new hampshire. >> as kathleen noted, south carolina has a history of being the decisive state. and as i said before, the republican primaries tend to end pretty quickly. bob dole can win new hampshire. and george h.w. bush then wins south carolina, for example, and it's essentially over, even though it goes on longer. the question is, was newt gingrich an anomaly or is south carolina's republican party changing like the republican party across the country in a lot of ways? south carolina, even though you think of it as a southern state, has always been more of an establishment state. carol campbell, the former governor, the deceased governor, was key to h.w. george bush's organization. was still a place when george h.w. bush ran. does that still exist? this is where ted cruz looks at the map and says, i like this.
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i like this. i want to be ted cruz, the tea party guy going into south carolina, and then into the s.e.c. primary, into the south, but as trump right now, as i check out the polling, on average, if you average the most recent south carolina polls, trump is up 12 points. the wint rop poll in the state is a respected poll. several weeks old, but trump is up eight points. iowa and new hampshire tend to change the polls. all the states that come after them. but if you look at the map right now from south carolina into the south, you have a trump/cruz race. >> jeff, how strong do you think trump's support is in south carolina? >> well, i think it's pretty strong. i really do. i think he spent the time there. i think he got a lot of grassroots support. i think he's doing fine with that. so, you know, we're headed into the christmas break, things sort of tend to calm down here, but i think, i expect him to do very, very well. and as a matter of fact, if, in fact, he did lose in iowa, that might be the place that along with new hampshire, that is the firewall, as they say. >> kathleen? >> i was just going to say, i
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think john made a really good point that the state is changing, the party is changing, and it's becoming much more tea party, heavily evangelical. and these are the folks that gravitate toward -- i wouldn't pick trump so much, but to ted cruz. actually, trump supporters tend not to be religious. they tend to be blue-collar. i don't like saying this, but, undereducated, and not religious. so i don't -- those people are also, as i said earlier tonight, the same people who often don't turn out to vote. so it's very unclear whether he, able to maintain that lead in south carolina. but otherwise, you know, it's very hard to put south carolina in a box anymore. we've got a lot of people coming from other parts, although they tend to be more democratic than republican. but i think it's, you know, i think ted cruz could actually do quite well in south carolina. >> we shall see. kathleen parker -- >> one of the unknowns, anderson. one of the unknowns, donald trump is attracting a lot of
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people to his rallies who have never been involved in politics before. this sort of has a, to me, a sort of reagan feel to it. so that you're not appealing to the folks that have always been involved in a primary or a caucus, you're dealing now with an unknown quantity of people who have never been involved in politics before. >> right. >> so the question is, how many people are there? >> right. >> i don't know the answer to that, but i do think they're out there and i think they're an element. >> and do they come out to vote? and if he doesn't become the nominee, do they then vote for the gop? jeffrey lord, a lot of questions. kathleen parker, as well. john king, thanks. next, the fallout of the hung jury in baltimore. is every one of the upcoming cases in jeopardy because of what happened today?
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welcome back. protesters took to the streets of baltimore tonight, after a jury failed to reach a verdict in the first of what's expected to be many trials in the death of freddie gray. as you know, he died of police custody back in april, sparking the worst rioting baltimore has seen since the assassination of dr. martin luther king jr. six baltimore police officers were charged in the death. today, less than three days after jury deliberations began in the case of william porter, a judge declared a mistrial. prosecutors will decide whether to try him again. meantime, protesters have already made their decision. they do not like it. miguel marquez joins us from downtown baltimore. what's the latest tonight?
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>> reporter: look, the protests have now broken up, but they did get rather intense for a short time after that mistrial was announced. protesters taking to the streets, several dozen of them marched from the courthouse, to city hall here where we are now, and around to the police headquarters. police acting very, very, with a very strong hand, bringing out dozens, about hundreds of police to block roads, to keep them off the main thoroughfares in baltimore. to keep them as much in control as possible. eventually the prosecutors came back to city hall and eventually broke up. there were two arrests, one a 16-year-old, another a well-known activist here. protesters ended up over at central booking, where the 16-year-old was taken. most concerned about him. one thing that was interesting about the protests today. for the first time, and we've seen this in chicago as well, you're seeing signs like this. "good cops don't let bad cops kill defenseless citizens." this is the first time that a protest here in baltimore that they have recognized there are
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good cops. so in some ways, maybe that is a small step forward in all of this. protesters say they may be out again tomorrow the day after all of this, as prosecutors say they will bring charges again, against william porter, and the question is, how will this affect all those other trials waiting. anderson? >> miguel, you spoke to freddie gray's family. what'd they say? >> reporter: we spoke to them exclusively, immediately after the trial. his mother, you know, she's not in great shape, and she was able to say a little bit. she said she was upset by the fact that there was no -- that there were no charges -- that the jury didn't find him guilty on any of the charges. but also said that she believes there will be justice eventually. her husband, richard shipley, also spoke to us, reading a statement. here's a little of that. >> we are hopeful that miss mosby will re-try officer porter as soon as possible, and that his next jury will reach a verdict. once again, we ask the public to remain calm and patient, because we are confident there will be
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another trial with a different jury. we are calm, you should be calm too. thank you. >> now, prosecutors say that they will, in fact, bring charges. we expect that process to begin tomorrow. >> joining us now is cnn political commentator and former obama adviser, van jones, cnn law enforcement analyst and former nypd detective, harry houck and cnn legal analyst, danny cevallos. what are the moves for the prosecutors moving forward on this pretrial? >> first of all, you have a bunch of witnesses who have testified, and all of those transcripts can be used later on, they can be mined for prior inconsistent statements. secondari secondarily, the prosecution has shown its hand. now the defense knows what they're going to do if there is a second trial. and then you have to ask the question, well, how will this mistrial seep into the minds of potential jurors going forward? so that can you impanel a new jury that is completely free of any sort of bias or opinion about this case and able to render a verdict. >> when this happens, do
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prosecutors interview the jurors to find out what worked and what didn't work? >> they should, in this case especially. because they'll want to know, consider this. this is a mistrial because the jury was deadlocked. so that means, from the highest charge on down to the lowest charge, they couldn't agree. what that may mean is that there was one, maybe two holdouts. if they had split the verdict and acquitted on some and convicted on the others, that might tell us something as well. but in this case, because they deadlocked on all of them, the prosecutors have to be very curious as to how the jurors arrive at this non-verdict. and, i'm going to be interested to find out how many times they went to the judge is and how many -- what the discussions were that the judge had with the jury. because there could even be some issues there for the appellate court going forward. >> van, sunny in our last hour was saying that she thought prosecutors in baltimore moved too quickly to bring charges in this case, really a week or so or more after freddie gray's
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death, after the charges were even indicated. what do you think the fact the jury couldn't come up with a verdict, what kind of a message, do you think, that sends to the residents of baltimore? >> sunny and i see this slightly differently. i think, in fact, the fact that you don't have an acquittal is a vindication of the decision to prosecute. it is very, very hard to convict a police officer. in fact, you've seen it across the country, horrible incidents. they don't even bring charges against the officer. so it's very, very hard. it's tough. all you need is one juror that just says, i don't care. this is a police officer. i'm not going to see a police officer go to jail, and you get a hung jury. so i think that this prosecutor had enough to avoid an acquittal. it is a big setback. but i don't think we should be second-guessing the prosecution. the other thing, i think, is that the people of baltimore are
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behaving responsibly tonight. there is a very strategic reason for them to have get out there and act terribly. if you had riots tonight, every other case, they would have to move it out of baltimore. a defense attorney could say, listen, we cannot get a fair trial here. so i think it's very smart for people in baltimore to play it cool, calm, and collected. let's keep these cases in baltimore and get you a just outcome. >> harry, this is being watched by citizens of baltimore, but also watched by police officers in baltimore and all around the country. >> police officers are watching this case because, like myself, this is purely a -- this is prosecutorial misconduct, as far as i'm concerned, by looked at the evidence here. this case vindicates what i've been saying all along, the fact that there is no evidence, no direct evidence against police officer porter. and i think what we're going to start to see, we'll see a domino
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effect here, in these next trials here, and we'll start either seeing hung juries or acquittals on these next couple of officers that will be going against -- >> a lot of it, though, danny, depends on the jury. the makeup of the jury who they happen to get. it's a roll of the dice anytime you put a case in front of a jury. it does seem like a lot of these other cases, though, would have depended on porter's testimony and they clearly usually tried the case they think is the easiest to try first. no? >> maybe not. this may have been a real -- a level of strategy that may end up backfiring. by trying porter first, if he offered the most information and the most potential to turn on his brother officers, then if you get an acquittal or a conviction, he cannot claim the fifth amendment, and he can -- you can force him on the stand to testify. however, with a mistrial, he is still a charged defendant, and he can invoke that fifth amendment. now the prosecutors don't have the benefit of porter as a witness against the subsequent officers. so while the prosecution had hoped the dominos would fall with porter, this unexpected mistrial means the dominos, if
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they ever fall, will have to wait for another day. >> van, let you in here? >> i want to say, harry, i disagreed slightly. he said there's no evidence. had there been no evidence, there would have been an acquittal outright. there must be strong evidence, otherwise you wouldn't have had a split here. let's give this prosecutor another shot and see what we get. i don't want anybody thinking there was no evidence. i don't think that's quite true. >> we don't know what the jury, if it was 6-1, 6-2, 6-6. we don't know. >> that is true. >> just ahead, van talked about the community playing it cool and not let protesters get out of hand, we'll talk to one of baltimore's community leaders about what he thinks will happen next. type 2 diabetes doesn't care who you are. man woman or where you're from. city country we're just everyday people fighting high blood sugar. ♪i am everyday people. farxiga may help in that fight every day. along with diet and exercise, farxiga helps lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes.
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jones said before the break, about community reaction to today's mistrial in the case against one of the police officers involved, and praising people for playing it cool on the streets. joining me now is reverend jamal bryant, a baltimore community leader. it's good to have you on the program. when you heard there was a mistrial in the case against officer porter, what went through your mind? >> here we go again. it's obvious that this isn't going to be a job. but it's going to be a marathon, considering we've got six trials ahead of us. we thought we would be down the five, but it's groundhog's day. it looks like we're going to have to revisit this for many days to come. >> do you realize that the mistrial in this case reverberates in the other cases, makes the other cases even more difficult for prosecutors? >> it muddies the water, because it shows that there's still a lot of unanswered questions.
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i'm confident in our state's attorney that they're going to refile tomorrow, so we'll have another shot at it. the family is hoping for closure and a verdict one way or another, and prayerfully, this go-around, the jury will have all of their questions answered? >> and how have things been tonight with the protests? >> absolutely peaceably. interfaith leaders stood as a human chain around north and pin, which is our ground zero, praying and absolutely no incidents outside of city hall. this evening, there was a demonstration. again, no incidents. the homes where freddie gray was raised and killed, no incidents. we're giving the benefit of the doubt to the criminal justice system, even when we haven't had evidence of them being able to perform? >> and what message are you trying to get out to people tonight? to people out in the community? >> is that we don't want to give absolutely any license for them to move a child outside of baltimore, for us to wait for due process and believe that it's going to work out in our favor, not for revenge, but for justice to take place. and so far, the streets have been quiet. people in high expectation and believing that it will, in fact,
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find justice for freddie gray's family. >> and that's your concern, that if protests become violent in any way, that could give defense attorneys a reason to try to move the next trials out of baltimore? >> well, what we found out from the first uprising is that the city is more concerned about broken police glass than they are broken spines. and about the interharbor rather than the heart of the city. so we don't want to give any indication or clue that we're going to allow them to push the case outside of the parameters, because we believe it should be a jury of the peers of freddie gray. and so we are armed and attentive to see this process for all six officers come to fruition right here in baltimore. >> pastor bryant, appreciate your time tonight. up next, a key admission. what the director of the fbi said today about that deadly
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attack five months ago today on military sites in tennessee. and how it significant changes the complexion of the story. fbi director james comey now
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fbi director james comey now says the mass shooting in chattanooga, tennessee, that left five u.s. service members dead and another wounded five months ago was, in fact, homegrown terrorism. this means the marines and sailor were awarded purple hearts. we'll have more on that in a moment. first, here's martin savage with how the fbi tracked the terrorists' motives. >> gunfire shatters a mid-summer morning in a chattanooga neighborhood, claiming the lives of four u.s. marines and a u.s. sailor. the gunman, 24-year-old mohammad abdulazeez strikes first around 10:45, driving a silver mustang convertible in the parking lot of a shopping center.
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>> i didn't think anything of it. he had his dropped top and lifted up his arms with a big black gun and there was one shot and it was just shots one after another. just unloading. >> reporter: he then races to a u.s. naval reserve center with police in pursuit. when they catch up with him, a gun battle ensues. as heard in this cell phone video. >> a response by the local law enforcement was overwhelming. they were able to neutralize the threat. the gunman is killed, the entire attack takes less than 30 minutes. >> but leaves a community in shock, and shattered by grief. the fbi examined writings of abdulazeez that says he was in agreement of some of the writings of this man, anwar al awlaki, the leader of the arabian peninsula. also, an investigation of the chattanooga attacker's cell phone found internet searches regarding martyrdom. investigators said they found no evidence that abdulazeez was in direct coordination with any terror group. but to the head of the fbi, such
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groups are still there to blame. >> in my mind, the chattanooga killer was inspired and motivated by a foreign terrorist organization propaganda. >> terrorist organizations may not have given the order to attack, but authorities believe they did give the 24-year-old american something just as deadly. the will to kill. martin savage, cnn, atlanta. >> late this afternoon, the u.s. navy announced they will award the purple heart to four members. thomas sullivan known as tommy to loved ones. a friend put it simply on facebook, he was our hero. staff sergeant david wyatt served in iraq and afghanistan. he left a wife and two children. he was 35 years old. sergeant carson homequist, a husband and father to a little boy served two tours in afghanistan. sergeant homequist was just 25
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years old. navy petty officer second class randall smith. according to family members, he saw the gunman, warned people around him saving lives. lance corporal squire wells' mother says he died doing what he loved. also receiving the purple heart, sergeant demantei chile, who was shot in the thigh. just a week later, he was back on duty. perspective now from phil mudd, a cnn counterterrorism analyst and peter bergen, author of the upcoming book. "united states and jihad." did it sir pruz you the amount of time that it took to determine what happened in chattanooga was terrorism? >> it took longer than i expected but when you are considering whether something is an act of terrorism you are not only looking at who the person is but also motivation. terrorism is the murder of innocents in response to a political act. you have an individual who appears to have substance abuse
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problems and mental health problems. how do you determine the motivation of a person. >> it is not always clear cut, i guess. you have a killer, a terrorist, here who had a problematic mental history. you assume that played a role into whether or not he decided to do what he did. >> the cases are often not clear cut. we had a case where a far-right anti-semitic guy attacked a jewish community center and shouted heil hitler after the attack. that is open and shut. but often you find salespeople have mixed motivations. and recall even the san bernardino case where initially it looked like a simple workplace violence shooting and people were very careful not to call it jihadism until it was very clear it was. often in these cases we can see that there is sometimes a mixed moe viv. sometimes a clear motive. in this chattanooga case it was
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complex because of the mental illness and drug abuse. >> to figure out the intent of an individual particularly when there is a history of mental issues or substance abuse it has to be incredibly comp caughted. >> it's not only intent but determining the mental state of the individual. in murder cases we say if someone commits an act of mass murder the judge will say is the person mentally competent to have committed the act or should they be committed to a mental institution. in terror cases when someone commits an act of murder we want to say he is muslim, there we understand his motivation. i think this is similar to a murder case. we are saying we don't understand why he did what he did. for an individual who might have had bi-polar disease or substance abuse problems. we can't immediately discern whether it is a terror act.
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this is pretty simple if he has these problems how confident are you in knowing what his mind set is. >> what do you say to those who say this is political correctness or there is a political motivation to not label something as terrorism because it doesn't play into the administration's line that things are more under control than they may be? >> well, you know, i would just agree with everything that phil has said. these things are complicated. remember the d.c. sniper case, the two guys who killed a number of people in the washington, d.c. area. they made a passing reference to osama bin laden. and some people look back on that case as not being a terrorism case. people say things all the time. getting to this question of what the motivation was. is it really the cause of the attack? that can be complicated and at the end of the day unknowable even to the people involved. to go and attack completely innocent people it's not the act of someone who has their marbles completely together. usually there is something going
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on in their lives personally as well that can also be complicating the issue. >> to that idea of political correctness when you were at the fbi or cia was that something you noticed or an issue? >> not really. the museum who are determining whether it is an act of terrorism were shielded. when i looked at this act and asked myself the question how would i consider this? a criminal act or a terror act it didn't occur that i might be judging this based on a political correctness standard. i said if i'm judging intent and there is a dead human being who had substantial personal issues how can i be confident i understand intent in i didn't really see the buffeting of the political winds.
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it wasn't an issue when we were determining cases back when i was at the bureau. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> up next, remember the kid who drove drunk, killed four people and avoided prison with the affluence defense. he is back in the news and on the run from police. phil! oh no... (under his breath) hey man! hey peter. (unenthusiastic) oh... ha ha ha! joanne? is that you? it's me... you don't look a day over 70. am i right? jingle jingle. if you're peter pan, you stay young forever.
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it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. ♪ you make me feel so young... it's what you do. ♪ you make me feel ♪ so spring has sprung. ♪usic: "thunder clatter" by wild cub ♪ ♪ most weekends only last a couple of days. some last a lifetime. hampton. we go together. always get the lowest price, only when you book direct at [bassist] two late nights in blew an amp.but good nights. sure,music's why we do this,but it's still our business. we spend days booking gigs, then we've gotta put in the miles to get there. but it's not without its perks.
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like seeing our album sales go through the roof enough to finally start paying meg's little brother- i mean,our new tour manager-with real,actual money. we run on quickbooks.that's how we own it.
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a lot more happening tonight. amber walker has the news and business bulletin.
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>> the federal reserve is raising short-term interest rates by 1/4 percentage point. it will affect millions of americans including mortgage seekers. more gradual increases are expected next year. north korea has sentenced a canadian pastor to life in prison for submersive plots and activities. the reverend was accused of committing illegal religious activities and false propaganda. and a 360 follow out of texas where an arrest warrant has been issued for ethan couch, the tanler who avoided jail after killing four people in a 2013 drunken driving rut in ft. worth when he claimed he suffered from affluenza. couch's probation officer can't find him or his mother after this video was posted online of him at a drinking party. and look who slept through much
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of his media debut. that's the new giant panda cub. he now weighs just over 17 pounds and will make his public debut next month. just precious. >> that does it for us. cnn tonight with don lemon starts now. republicans battle it out in our debate last night. who won, who lost and who might be about to drop out. this is cnn tonight, i'm don lemon. today on the campaign trail, the tough talk, heating up. >> look what i did to bush. i haven't even started on hillary. i haven't even started. >> and some of the candidates you saw on stage last night are hanging on by a thread. tonight we're going to break down all the big moments and tell you where the republican rivals go from here, plus you're looking live at the streets of baltimore. protesters took to the