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tv   Anderson Cooper 360 Post Debate Special  CNN  January 14, 2016 8:00pm-10:01pm PST

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that's it for us tonight. thank you for joining us. i'll be back here tomorrow night. "ac360" the post debate special "ac360" the post debate special starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com republican debate in south carolip carolina carolina e republican debate in south carolip carolina carolina . the voting starts in a few short weeks in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. the chances for any candidate to make a big move are dwindling which made tonight a prime opportunity. we'll look at which republican took advantage of it and how it played with undecided republicans and how it might play in the general election. we're going to talk to the candidates and check the facts. but first a look at the key moments from a very key evening. >> you were born in canada to an american mother so you are and are considered an american
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citizen but that fellow next to you and others have said being born in canada means you are not natural born and that raised questions about your eligibility. do you want to try to close this topic once and for all tonight? >> well, neil, i'll glad we are focusing on the important topics of the evening. [ applause ] you know, back in september, my friend donald said that he had had his lawyers look at this from every which way and there was nothing to this birther issue. now, since september, the constitution hasn't changed. but the poll numbers have. >> there are other attorneys that feel and very, very fine, constitutional attorneys, that feel that because he was not born on the land, he cannot run
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for office. here's the office. we're running. he does great. i win, i choose him as my vice presidential candidate and the democrats sue because i can't take him along for the ride. i don't like that. reason he beats the rest of the field -- he beats the rest of the field -- they don't like. that they don't like that he beat the rest of the field because they want me. but if for some reason he beats the rest of the field i know that democrats are going to be bringing a suit. you have a big lawsuit over your head while you're running and if you become the nominee who the hell knows if you can serve in office. so you could go out and get a declaratory judgment -- >> i hate to interrupt this episode of court tv but the
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real -- >> i'm very happy to get a question this early on. i was going to ask you to wake me up when the time came. >> senator cruz -- the "new york times" is reporting you failed to disclose $1 million in loans from goldman sachs and citi bank. your campaign says it was inadvertent. >> thank you for bringing up that hit piece. the main stream media does not hide their views. a few weeks back a columnist wrote a column said anybody but cruz. and that same columnist wrote a column comparing me to an evil demonic spirit from the movie "it follows" that jumps from body to body possessing people. so you know, the "new york times" and i don't have the
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warmest of relationships. now, in terms of their really stunning hit piece what they mentioned is when i was running for senate, unlike hillary clinton, i don't have masses of money in the bank, hundreds of millions of dollars. when i was running for senate just about every lobbyist and the establishment opposed me in the race in texas and my opponent was worth over $200 million. he put a $25 million check up from his own pocket to fund that campaign. an my wife heidi and i, we ended up investing everything we owned. we took a loan against our assets to invest it in that campaign to defend ourselves against those attacks and the entire "new york times" attack is that i disclosed that loan on one filing with the united states senate but it was not on a second filing with the fec. both of those were public and i
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made a paperwork error disclosing it on one paper and not the other. if that is the best hit they have they better go back to the well. >> governor christie has endorsed many of the things that obama supports. our next president and our republican nominee cannot be someone who supports those position. >> governor? >> you know -- i -- i stood on the stage and watched marco and rather indignantly look at governor bush and say someone told you because we are running for the same office that criticizing me will get you to that office. the same someone is whispering in marco's ear too. >> there is a lot to talk about. joining us is gloria borger and john king, anna navarro, amanda
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carpenter, and former reagan adviser. and kevin is a former top 2012 mitt romney adviser. let get impressions of the debate. >> i thought that ted cruz had the strongest night. he had the most applause lines and most laugh lines. even when he was attacked he would laugh at first an then i think sort of go into, i thought, a very, very confrontational exchange with donald trump. he put the citizenship issue to bed. i think he had a bit of a tough go when he talked about new york values and trump came back at him in talking about 9/11. we can see who the strongest candidates are. donald trump had a great night. ted cruz also, fantastic. i thought christie was really great and for marco rubio we are
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starting to see the limits of marco rubio's candidacy. he is kind of the -- the kind of candidate, i think, who gives good lines in a debate but there's not much there there oftentimes it feels like walking points. >> it feels like he walked into that new york values thing and trump had something to say on that. >> cruz and trump knew this was going to be their debate because of their tensions. trump was ready to play the 9/11 card. you could tell cruz's face at tend of it. let it go. >> just let it go. >> however, nationally, cruz -- trump got the better of cruz in that thing. but the people of iowa and south carolina think differently. we're going to have a conversation object how it might have played in the national debate. so let's see how that goes. but clearly, look, a few weeks ago, they were in a bromance.
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this week they became frienemies. and now they are enemies. jeb bush tried to get in on the issue of strength and christie and rubio gave the same answer with more passion. i'm not sure how that shakes out. and john kasich seemed out of step talking about jobs an everything. but the people in new hampshire are happy. that's what comes up in his town halls and he is trying to protect the only place he is running decent now. we look at the context of the debate and they are trying to play state by state chess and what they are looking for is different than thousand we are scoring this. >> everybody played to form. the fights they had were the fights that we anticipated. the interesting thing to me in looking, as neil was saying, in looking at marco rubio, it
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seemed to me an awful lot like every response was robotic or canned. and now that we're used to seeing marco rubio, you might want to see a little more spontaneity than you saw tonight. and i don't think that really plays well. i think trump had his best debate. and i think this will be very good for trump if we look at the national -- >> definitely more comfortable as a debater this time around. we're going to take a short break. has the voters saw this as well. did anyone change their minds or make a choice. gary tuchman joins us. and also lawrence traub is going to join us. he heard the comments that his former student ted cruz made about him. we'll talk to him about that. we'll be right back. was engineered...
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and learn about savings at myrbetriq.com before the break, gloria said that donald trump had a good night on stage in south carolina. a lot of viewers no doubt agree. here is one key moment for him. take a look. >> there are other attorneys that feel and very, very fine, constitutional attorneys, that feel that because he was not born on the land, he cannot run for office. here's the problem. we're running, he does great. i win, i choose him as my vice presidential candidate and the democrats sue because we can't take him along for the ride. i don't like that, okay?
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the fact is, and if for some reason he beats the rest of the field -- he beats the rest of the field -- see they don't like that. they don't like that he beats the rest of the field because they want me. >>let go back with our panel. and i'll start with you. how did you think the evening went? >> i may break into hives for saying this but i think that donald trump had a very good night tonight. it's the best debate he's had of all of them. i don't think that ted cruz put an end to the eligibility and citizenship question. i think the question still lingers. i think ted cruz was good but he has a problem. this was a longer answer debate. it was 90 seconds and ted cruz totally misses the point of less is more and feels he has to go up to the 90 seconds and maybe past it. and he throws so much into an answer he gets long winded and
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convoluted and very hard to follow. you know, i did not see the kind of cross fire i was expecting from the three big dogs eating out of the same bowl, chris christie, jeb bush and john kasich. i think they went after the folks on the stage a little bit more. and everybody other than ben carson for who i need a translator app to understand what he is saying had a pretty good night tonight. >> i think that donald trump did have a very good night. he was very passionate. >> you think that donald trump has had a very good life. >> but he was passionate and engaged and talking about trade which is a subject that he is familiar with. i thought he did really well. one of the things that surprised me is that governor christie didn't support justice society
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-- sotomayor. he wouldn't have been his choice but he supported her. so he just was out there giving a deliberate, you know, representation of something that wasn't so. that will catch up with him. and i thought that jeb bush had a good line about hillary when he talked about the fbi investigation. and you saw the applause that came from there. and i think earlier in the week i saw our friend van jones saying there is an open revolt in the democratic party over hillary. i suspect these are tied in together and there is more to come on this. >> co-you think he put to bed the eligibility issue. >> it was a mix of facts, star chasm and humor. he had to give a full fledged answer. he tried to find a youtube
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response. it is an interesting contrast. >> he was using humor more than normal. >> rubio had good moments but he was too scripted and came off nervous. he knows his facts but when it is always like that there is -- >> i disagree with that respectfully. i think that cruz made a mistake in how he went back and forth. i don't think he has put it to rest. by talking about it in a legal way and bringing in donald trump's own history with donald trump's mother, i think all that did is prolong it news.
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>> it would have been better after if he hit it and moved own and talked about the bigger issues that brought him to the top of the polls like immigration. >> i do want to get a quick break in and talk to lawrence traub about the citizenship sure issue and his perspective. we'll be right back. our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials. amex helped me buy the inventory i needed. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that. another step on the journey.
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welcome back we are talking about the ted cruz's canadian birth. >> we are focusing on the important topics of the evening. you back in september donald trump said his lawyers have looked at this from every which way. there was nothing to this birther issue. since september, the constitution has not changed. but the poll numbers have. and i recognize -- i recognize
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that donald is dismayed that his poll numbers are falling in iowa but the facts and the law here are quite clear. >> you saw the numbers yourself. nbc just came out with a poll headlined trump way up and cruz going down. so you can't -- they don't like the wall street journal or nbc but i like the poll and it just came out. and in iowa now as you know, ted, in the last three polls i'm beating you. you shouldn't misrepresent how well you're doing with the polls. i was all for you until you started doing that. that is a misrepresentation. number one. this isn't me saying it i don't care. i think i'm going to win fair and square. lawrence traub and numerous from harvard said there is a serious question as to whether or not ted can do this.
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okay? and there are other attorneys, very, very fine constitutional attorneys who feel because he was not born on the land he cannot run for office. >> i have spent my entire life depending the constitution before the supreme court and i will not take legal advice from donald trump. >> take it from lawrence traub. take it from your own professor. >> if i can tell you one thing -- >> the chances of any litigation proceeding on this is zero. larry traub is a left wing harvard law professor who was al gore's lawyer in bush versus gore. he is a major hillary clinton supporter and there is reasons that they are echoing attacks on me. >> before going to the professor who is on the phonelet get
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thoughts from our panel. >> he doesn't answer the question because he can want. there are people who are out there, we talked about congressman alan grayson who said they will in fact sue. >> anyone can sue over anything but it has to have legitimacy. >> right. >> all trump is saying that somebody will do it and somebody will do it for sure. i don't think it's going to get anywhere. i think he is a natural born citizen. but will it become headlines, that much is true. >> cruz's point that the constitution hasn't changed but the polls have, that's what it is about and it is obvious to everybody who is watching this play out and it's working for trump. >> here's the problem with that answer, though, that you know, ted cruz is right.
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the constitution did not change in the last six months but neither did donald trump and his new york values who he was sucking up to, posing for pictures and trying to be his bff forever. >> this is a conversation that trump wants to keep going for 17 more days. even if cruz wins he wants to be right there to say it's a tie. and ted cruz needs an iowa win -- that doesn't mean he is out of the race but an iowa race would get him off to the start he is looking for. if ted cruz is the nominee, no question, a democrat will sue. we'll deal with that if we get there. >> and he is a politician. this is exactly what a politician would do. and this is a great political move for him in the short term. >> if you look at the des moines register poll, 85% of likely
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caucus goers didn't think this was an issue but 15% said, yeah, this did bother them. if you think about the margins in iowa where it could be 100 votes as it was with mitt romney and rick santorum this could work. ted cruz was smart to say if you want to get into the weeds of the constitution, maybe bobby jindal wouldn't be eligible either, marco rubio might not be eligible either and dragged donald trump into it as well. he made it sound like a conspiracy theory. that was a smart move on his part. >> you can't do it in the republican primary. but a better argument is you tried it against obama and now against me. >> he is in need of a more efficient answer on this and he has to get back to his core message. this is a critical time where we
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are in the closing argument stage where when folks get to the caucus they don't want your last plea to be trust me i'm eligible and don't pay attention to the loan from the bank. he has to get back on message now. i thought on the bank issue, he was more efficient than he had been in the past days and moved quickly to address it and move on. >> and tried to put it on hillary clinton. >> exactly. he used it to draw a contrast with barack obama in a more effective way. >> what is it -- >> what is the efficient answer is? >> on marco rubio gave on the citizenship. >> i want to bring in professor tribe who was a topic of conversation. i want to read what your former law student, cruz, said about you, a left wing judicial activist harvard law professor and a major hillary clinton
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supporter. he did mention you were his former professor at the university of harvard. what did you make of being brought up in that way tonight and do you think that cruz or a court need to answer the eligibility issue? >> cruz needs to answer it. i agree that he has not put it to bed. if he put it to bed he is certainly sleeping alone. real serious scholars think there is a serious question. it's just obvious. i think what really interesting is that he is interested in playing games, sticking daggers into people who are criticizing him, often untrue daggers. turns out i'm not a hillary clinton supporter. i didn't endorse her in 2008 or endorse her this year but it makes a good talk point. but most of what he said is nonsense. he says the constitution, you know, i think hasn't changed
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since september. of course not. but the question of how you interpret that document is not a joke. it matters a lot. regardless of whether he is or is not kicked off the ballot because of his birth outside the united states. his approach on issues where he likes the result of very rigid view of the constitution is that it hasn't changed since 1788 not only in the last six months. it's a rigid document. in 1788 i assure you natural born citizens did not mean simply citizens from the time of birth. all the laws he talks about since 1788 that have said you don't have to get naturalized if it turns out you were a citizen at -- if your parents sometimes they required in these laws both parents other times they require
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just the father. you don't have to get naturalized. but they weren't talking about this odd phrase natural born citizen. >> you are saying there are two ways to interpret the constitution, one is as a living, breathing document that changes with time and can be interpreted. and if you believe it to be that, then cruz stands on pretty firm footing. but if you believe the original intent and believe it to be what the founders actually wrote, then he doesn't. can you explain those interpretations? >> you got it. i'm one of those people that cruz has long criticized. when he says i'm a judicial activist what he means is i believe its meaning isn't static. over time we come to new understandings and have new experiences and the meaning changes somewhat.
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we have a constitution that formerly been amended only 27 times but it certainly means something very different in words like equality which has never been amended to include women be now we understand that it means to include women. if you read the constitution in the way that ted cruz insists on reading it, then, and that's, you know, that's the originalist view, then he loses and he loses the lawsuit which could easily occur. if some secretary of state refuses to put his name on the ballot if he's the nominee there's no way out of it other than to have cruz or the republican national committee sue the secretary of state. and that issue would then have to go all the way to the supreme court. but the fact is, you know, it's a serious cloud. it has to be taken seriously. it's not just a matter of coming up with great talking points or
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winning some debate. i think he does a disservice to the constitution and the country when he thinks he can slide his way, slip slide his way around this serious constitutional issue. >> i would have loved to have sat in your class when you were teaching ted cruz. >> it was even more fascinating teaching barack obama or john roberts. but we'll talk about that another day. >> i would like to very much, put cameras in the classroom and put them online. thank you very much. as we wait to hear from the candidates, quick thoughts from the panel. it is interesting, and perhaps that's one of the dilemmas that cruz has in answering this is that the way his interprets the constitution, it doesn't back up what he is saying. >> the moral is if you are running for the president of the united states, don't tick off your old law professor.
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>> this won't be the last time. >> and explain in some depth i happen to be an originalist. he is perfectly right in his analysis of this. to the political point at hand what is ted cruz going to do? >> i find it funny that lawrence tribe wants to be an originalist when it comes to the constitution when it comes to ted cruz. >> he is trying to box cruz into saying something differently. the easiest answer in my mind i don't need to supreme court to tell me the sky is blue and this month is january but ted cruz marching into the supreme court to settle this question, most peel open agree that ted cruz is a natural born citizen and he explained that donald trump's view would disqualify, mitt romney, john mccain and marco rubio. that is trump trfr's view of the world. that is not in line with the truth. >> congress could vote on this,
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right? congress could vote and say -- >> they could pass a resolution. >> that cruz is a natural born citizen. >> well -- >> he doesn't have a lot of friends in the senate. >> they did it for john mccain. >> and it's a matter of whether we beat hillary clinton or not. >> but john mccain raised questions about -- >> he is having fun right now. >> he is. >> that's what we call the irish revenge. >> i think john mccain -- >> best served cold. >> that's right. >> the difference between john mccain and ted cruz is that john mccain was born in a u.s. territory, a u.s. military base, ted cruz wasn't. the legal issues are different. i think that ted cruz has to stop talking about the legal issues and say what marco rubio said. let's discuss who is more qualified to be commander-in-chief. if he is the nominee we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. >> and trump will continue
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talking about it. and the lawyers have said there has never been a case. ted cruz wishes that someone had taken john mccain to court or he would have gone to court himself. at the beginning of the campaign they took some steps where cruz said if i am a canadian citizen i renounce that. he did do that. so no one can say he is a dual citizen but he can't hold up a piece of paper and say the supreme court has said i'm fine because it doesn't exist. >> who do you think had the best night tonight? >> i don't think you can answer that question. it's not a direct question like that. they all have different interests. trump is a leader nationally and way ahead in new hampshire and in a tie or close in iowa had a perfectly fine night. he had not had good debates in the past. he had a pretty good debate tonight. we can pick moments where he was
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not so great. cruz, speaking to his audience had a good debate. the others i disagree about rubio and later when we came on the air, rubio-cruz had a feisty exchange. we'll see how that plays out. >> i'm going to revise and extend. >> with 11 candidates on the ballot, it's a difficult question to answer. i agree with the conversation earlier that a lot of -- if you look at the conservative conversation online. why is ben carson still in this race, however he's got 9 or 10% in iowa right now. think about his answers. we need to go back to right and wrong. he is talking to his people. he's not going to be the republican nominee but if he can hold those people he is a factor in the race. >> that 10%, ben carson when and if he drops out that's a big block that could go to trump or to cruz. >> cruz because of the evangelical support.
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>> and -- >> where most of his -- >> another interesting thing is i thought jeb bush had a pretty good night but it was almost as if it didn't matter. he had a pretty good night and he went on the attack when he needed to. he said, you know, this is a serious job on the issue of tariffs with china. i think he did a very good job taking on trump on that. i know that is his area of expertise. >> there was a key moment where they clash over immigration among other things. let's play that. >> ted cruz used to say you supported doubling the number of green cards and now you are against it. you used to support legalizing people who were here illegally and now you are against it. you were in favor of birthright zep and now you are against it. it's not just on immigration. you used to support tpa and now
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you say you are against it. i saw you flip your vote on crop insurance because they said it would help you in iowa. and last week we saw you flip your vote on ethanol in iowa for the same reason. that is political calculation. when i'm president i will work consistently every day to keep this country safe, not call edward snowden a public servant. he is a trader. if i get my hands on him he is standing trial for treason. and every time there has been a defense bill in the senate three people team up to vote against it, bernie sanders, rand paul and ted cruz. >> i appreciate you dumping your oppo research folder on the debate. >> you think they like each other? >> at least half of the things that marco said are flat out false. so let's start with immigration. let's start with immigration and have a little bit of clarity.
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marco stood with chuck schumer and barack obama on amnesty. i stood with jeff sessions and steve king. marco supports legalization and citizenship for 12 million illegals. i opposed and oppose legalization and citizenship. and the attack he keeps throwing out on the military budget, marco knows full well i voted for his amendment to increase military spending to $697 billion. what he said and he said in the last debate, it's simply not true. >> we have to -- >> that was an exchange. >> so i -- i revised and extend my remarks. i think this was the best moment for marco rubio. >> and it's an important -- >> and the consistent conservative is -- they are trying to get at cruz. one of the conversations in the race is rubio's doing fine in -- rubio is doing fine or as well
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as bush, kasich, christie. >> felt comfortable with all the issues. i always want to have more time to go into depth but you know, you take what you can get. >> you were not asked to weigh in on one of the most intense moments of the night, questions about whether ted cruz is eligible to be president. what do you think? >> of course he is eligible. he was born to an american mother and you know, this happens constantly, hundreds if not thousands of times a day. i have a son who was born in australia but he is an american citizen, natural born. >> is donald trump barking up the wrong tree? what do you think the reason is he is doing this? >> to raise doubt, of course. that is the only reason. and he admitted it himself. he said ted's numbers were getting better. that's why he did it. >> to be fair or to be clear, ted cruz is doing better in iowa
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and it's in large part at your -- it hurts you because you have been going down in iowa. he has been doing better but you still don't want to jump on the trump band wagon on this? >> i don't see any reason to. if you have been observing carefully my numbers are creeping back up in iowa and i think they will continue to do that in the next few weeks. >> on that issue, your finance director left today. what is the state of the campaign? >> it's better than ever. it is absolutely spectacular. you know, he was not interested in creating further controversy. that was the reason for his departure. >> your poll numbers are dropping -- what is so good -- >> they are on the way back up. have you analyzed them lately? >> tonight is the night that will help -- >> i think it will. >> how so? >> it continues to reinforce the
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fact that foreign policy is not a problem for me. and that's something that people worried about and all the things they worried about, domestic terrorism, things like that the more people hear me the more they recognize that i know certainly as much as anybody else. >> if you don't continue -- >> the evangelical support in iowa right now, is there any way for you to get in on that, to -- >> let me just -- >> comments from dr. carson. it's interesting whether this is spin or he believes it that the more people hear from him on foreign policy this better things get. >> the line that went through my mind is pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. >> i have never seen a candidate make more negative declarations against himself like carson on national security and foreign policy. at a time when it is competing with the economy. >> you have no doubt that is behind his slide. >> it is. he had really good moments
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tonight. i don't think he had a bad debate. he had strong moments that reinforced people's willingness to like him and relate to him. but his numbers are going going to recover. >> and you pointed this out that his likability is still very high. it's just that -- >> sure. you haven't seen favorability or likability decline. but he had a hard problem getting over the final question that voters ask themselves which is can i picture this person in the oval office? >> that's right. >> he never overcame the doubts that voters had about him. >> i don't get the ben carson thing at all. but he just raised $23 million in this last quarter while he is confusing hamas and hummus and while we are watching his campaign fall apart in front of our eyes but he is still on the main debate stage when others are not and still raising $23
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million and selling his book. >> and that favorability at some point he may not be a candidate in this race but he will be a force. that 10% he is going to hold is going to be a monolithic block that could go with another voter. >> and he did ted cruz a big favor when he said, listen, this is silly. he is a natural born citizen just like my son who is in australia. we may see the beginning of a new bromance here. >> if you travel in small town america before this campaign you go into an evangelical church all of them have bookstores. you go into the church over here and an education center and bookstore and dr. carson's books have been front and center for years. they view him as authentic. they have turned away because they don't think he is up to the commander-in-chief test. that doesn't mean they don't like him or respect him or like him in debates.
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stand up for right and wrong and let's get washington out of our lives. they love that. >> after san bernardino when you saw the issue of terror go up and up in democratic and republican parties, you saw the beginning, i think, of carson's numbers starting to go down not because of anything he did but because of this question you're talking about of the commander-in-chief. >> and he has been off the trail for weeks a it a time on a book tour. >> he has barely been in iowa. >> and having a hard time staying relevant. and going into this debate everyone was looking at donald trump versus ted cruz. going out of it, i thunk the bigger conversation is going to be ted cruz versus marco rubio. i think this is incredibly important because it is rooted in substance. that truckload of attack that rubio dumped on cruz is manipulative. it will not look as good in the morning light when people go through the fact checks than it
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did tonight. but i like reviewing their senate records. they have important records. there is votes and substance you can look at. and the senate is a great place to fight the obama agenda. with the expansion of federal power it's the only place that someone can. i think there's going to be -- we're going to be experts on the senate even though chris christie will hate every minute of it. >> you are the only person that would argue that emphasizing the fact that they are both rookie senators is a good idea as opposed the ceo of a state. >> gary tuchman watched people watch tv. i want to go to him. gary, what did the people in the audience see and hear tonight? >> anderson, this wasn't a scientific sampling but it was a large sampling in this movie theater. normally motion pictures but today politics.
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did you enjoy the debate, first of all? a lot have gone home to go to bed but these people have stuck around and because this is an important state the first primary after new hampshire, we want to see how these people felt. a straw poll was taken about who won the debate. who you think won the debate. according to you, the people at the cinebar theater in south carolina in first place was donald trump with 38 votes. in second place, 36 votes, ted cruz. third place, 28 votes, rubio. marco rubio. and then no one else came close according to this audience, ben carson and jeb bush 6 votes. kasich, 2 votes. and chris christie, he got zero votes from all 120 people in is
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this theater. this is the third time we have been to this theater. the first time two debates ago it was ben carson who got the most votes. the second time it was ted cruz and now trump. what is your name? >> sherry. >> you have a big thumb. it's red and white. why do you think trump did a good job? >> he is great about laying it out about the unfair trade deals we're making and how we're losing jobs because of the tax rates. >> what does he have to do to impress others who don't like him much? >> they should read up more and go to his website, donaldjtrump.com. >> who supported cruz here? these are the cruz supporters. they may not have agreed with that. >> he is dependable and credible and i believe everything he says. >> these are loyal republicans. they like different candidates but they are all a republican? any supporting a democrat in the
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election? most of these people are loyal republicans. >> did anyone change their mind in the course of this debate about who they are supporting? >> has anybody changed their mind while they were here? the candidate you walked in is not the candidate you support today? no one has changed their minds just cemented their views. >> thank everyone for sticking around. we are expecting to hear from donald trump himself. dana bash is going to be talking to him in just a moment. this is the time when the candidates try to make their way into what's called the spin room. it's called the spin room. it's one of the most honest place in politics. it's where they go to tell how great they did in the debate. do you think at this stage there are a lot of people who are ready to -- or able or willing to change their minds? >> i thunk in the republican
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primaries now, you do have a group of undecided voters. and we've seen that in recent polling in iowa. you have people who say they are uncommitted and there are people who are changing their minds. the closer you get to a primary or caucus the more people focus on it. we have dana. >> i thought it was a great night. i had a lot of fun. >> you got very good -- you are getting pretty good reviews. can you explain why you think this was a different view -- >> you have been getting good reviews. why did this feel different than in the past. >> i think every one has been good. if i didn't have good debates i wouldn't be leading. a lot of people said this was my best debate. i felt very, very good. >> let's talk about new york values. do you think ted cruz explained what new york values were when he was asked about it? >> i don't think he did and i
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think he insulted a tremendous number of people. and you can't insult new yorkers in front of me. with what we put up with the world trade center and the whole thing and the death and travesty and to come back like we came back we shouldn't be hitting on new yorkers and i think he realizes he made a mistake. >> he talked about your mother. when you heard him talk about your mother what was going through your mind? >> i had a great mother, born in scotland. she had me here and she was a citizen. i was born in queens, jamaica, queens. >> when you hear him talking about the fact that he believes this is not an issue and won't be an issue -- >> big issue. the reason it's a big issue and to me this is a bigger issue than his financial -- his million dollars, his financial dealings. this is a very big issue. if there is a 5% chance or a 2% chance you have been seeing the
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same people as i have, you have many lawyers that feel that he can't run because of the fact that he was born in canada. and was a canadian citizen until 15 months ago. >> what is your strategy here? you admitted you didn't go there on this issue until he started doing better in the polls. are you trying to sow seeds of doubt? >> i didn't think it was appropriate when he said he is doing better. he is not doing better -- >> i mean what you said in the debate. >> i thought his answer was a false answer and everybody knew it in the room. and we just came out, nbc, wall street journal just came out, the poll. and the headline is how well trump is doing. he shouldn't be using false poll numbers. i don't use them and he shouldn't be using them. >> can i just follow up -- >> you call yourself a -- ted cruz really took the gloves off
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today are you going to be going after him harder? >> i think i did a good job. if you look at drudge or time magazine, i won the debate. and won it easily. a lot of people think this was my best debate. i don't know. i don't care -- >> can you explain the vice presidential candidate. >> do you think he was pandering -- >> i don't know if he knows what new york values are. but i mentioned a couple of things. fox is in new york. fox tends to be conservative. and i mentioned william f. buckley was a proud new yorker. and if you look at someone that did changes. ronald reagan was a fairly liberal person who became quite conservative. and you know, people change. but i thought it was inappropriate -- >> did you mean to offer him -- >> i think a lot of people were upset with him when he took that stance against new york when we went through such tragedy so
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recently with the world trade center. >> did you mean to offer him the vp slot if you become the nominee? >> no, not at all. i said it as a joke. you couldn't do it. he has a serious problem. we'll find out what happens but he has a serious problem. he should go for a declaratory judgment. but beyond that and you have had him on your shows there are many, many lawyers, great constitutional lawyers that say he can't run for president. he's going to have to solve that problem. >> what is your angle here? >> he hit me. i at no time hit him. i hit him after the fact. i guess the bromance is over. there is no reason for him to go that aggressive. he started to talk about new york in a negative way. >> are you trying to sow the seeds of doubt? >> it's not a question of doubt or of seeds. there is a doubt. and if it was a 1% chance and it is much more than that. but if there is a 1% chance you just can't run.
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i like him but you can't run. if there is a 1% chance and there is a lot more than that. okay -- right now i'm going to do "morning joe" at 6:30 in the morning and heading out to iowa and doing a nice rally in iowa and then we're going the new hampshire and we're all over. the christie campaign -- cruz campaign says they are winning in iowa. >> the poll says that i am winning in iowa. >> do you think you can get the people to go to caucus? >> i have the most people showing up and by far the most spirit. and everyone said i won this tonight. >> can i ask about the audience. your campaign manager thought the audience was stacked against you. it didn't sound like a pro trump crowd. how did you feel on the stage? >> i thought they were great. i thought it was fantastic. in south carolina, i'm winning
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the polls by a tremendous amount. this has been a great state for me. >> you thought the audience was pro trump? >> the audience was great especially with the new york answer. the audience gave me a standing ovation. >> why do you think that people are going to caucus when they never have before? >> we have to see. i'm spending a lot of time in iowa and have friends in iowa. i think they are going to go out and caucus and do very well. >> february 2nd if you do not do well in iowa will you have enough momentum? >> i'm right to the end. let's put it this way. i'm leading every national poll. i'm leading every state. now including iowa. in fact the real clear poll just came out. all the averages is i'm leading if i wasn't you would tell me. i'm leading every single state and every national poll. i think i'm going to do very well. we're going to find out. >> you are the front runner,
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obviously. >> and you know what the key is? we're going to make america great again. >> as the leader of the republican -- >> donald trump talking about his perception -- his view -- dana, can you hear us? if you can, what did you make of what trump says? >> i hear you now, anderson. >> what did you make of what trump said? >> he's a happy man, as you can see. if you can hear me, yes, he clearly is a happy man, sort of surprised me that he thought he had the audience with him particularly on the exchange that he had with ted cruz on the issue of cruz's citizenship he didn't seem to have the audience. but you know, he's donald trump and he always when it comes to people being with him or without him, he always makes sure that people think that he's got support everywhere as we've seen. but, look, i mean, he's riding high. and that's the bottom line. and i think anybody who says
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that he is not a threat to the establishment and not a real potential winner in iowa and new hampshire and beyond are in denial. >> stand by. we're going to bring in our panel. -- >> to continue the birther discussion. you know, i thought it was interesting. he said offhandedly i don't know how ted cruz is a u.s. senator. that's news to me. does he want to disqualify marco rubio as a senator? this gets cookier and cookier as time goes on. >> marco rubio did not have double citizenship. >> are you really following donald trump's logic here? >> that's the point he was trying to make. if he is good at anything, donald trump it's at sowing the seeds of discord and planting questions. >> and barrelling forward with it. >> he plants the seed and keeps on going. just never look back. >> right. >> he likes you as he plants the
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seed. >> i like to put the stiletto in your -- >> i think on the new york values point, it was such a clear win for donald trump. >> without a doubt. >> absolutely. >> cruz talking about in new york, they're socially liberal, they're pro abortion, they're pro gay marriage. >> there's a lot of support. i mean, i'm not necessarily voting support, but a lot of positive words. but from a group of people who probably when he first started said there would be no way he would be here in, you know, on that stage leading in every poll. he's proved them wrong time and again. >> he's proved us wrong and proved there's something going on in the country, those of us that spent too much time in washington didn't understand early on in this campaign. >> the president of the united
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states and the republican responder of the state of the union -- >> i told you this during a break. i was in a uber today with a driver who was the biggest trump supporter ever heard. everything he's saying is true and all his friends are going to vote for trump. '. >> not everything he's saying is true. >> but he's a politician. but look, tonight, what did he want to do. a lot of voters are just starting to check in. and is he qualified to be a senat senator. governor haley from south carolina is that rush limbaugh immediately came to donald trump's defense and immediately went after her, as did sean hannity as well. that's no small thing here, and
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rush is doing it again today. i see the chairman reince priebus felt compelled to disagree with rush, which is no small thing. >> trump is the guy who attacks when he's attacked. nikki haley in her response made reference to him and attacked him. yet tonight it was a love fest between donald trump and -- >> he said you know what, i embrace the anger. i totally embrace that which, i think, is classic donald trump. it is at the top of the hour. for our viewers who were joining us and want to see the key moments, we put together some of the most important moments that occurred tonight in north charleston, south carolina. here's a sample. >> i think most people know exactly what new york values are. >> i am from new york. >> you're from new york so you
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might not. but i promise you in south carolina they do. listen, there are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men and women in the state of new york, but everyone understands that the values in new york city are socially liberal, pro abortion or pro gay marriage, focused around money and the media. and i would note the reason i said that is i was asked -- my friend donald has taken to his event playing bruce springste springsteen's "born in the usa" and i was asked what i thought of that and i said well, if he wants to play a song, he could play "new york, new york." the concept of new york values is not that hard to figure out. not too many years ago, donald did a long interview with tim russert. and in that interview, he explained a whole host of issues that were very, very different
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from the views he's describes now. his explanation, look, i'm in new york. that's what we believe in new york. those aren't iowa values, but this is what we believe in new york. that was his explanation. i guess i can frame it another way. not a lot of conservatives come out of manhattan. i'm just saying. >> because he insulted a lot of people, i have had more calls on that statement that ted made, that new york is a great place. it's got great people, loving people, wonderful people. when the world trade center came down, i saw something that no place on earth could have handled more beautifully, more humane humanely than new york. two 110-story buildings come crashing down.
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i saw them come down. thousands of people killed and the clean-up started the next day and it was the most horrific clean-up probably in the history of doing this in construction. i was down there. and i have never seen anything like it. and the people in new york fought and fought and fought, and we saw more death and even the smell of death. nobody understood it. and it was with us for months. the smell, the air. and we rebuilt downtown manhattan, and everybody in the world watched and everybody in the world loved new york and loved new yorkers. and i have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that ted made. >> you can not give hillary clinton a third terrell of barack obama's leadership. i will not do that. if i'm the nominee, she won't get within ten miles of the white house. >> i will go first of all one step further in this description of hillary clinton. she wouldn't just be a disaster, hillary clinton is disqualified from being commander-in-chief of the united states.
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>> unlike hillary clinton, i don't have masses of money in the bank, hundreds of millions of dollars. >> everybody on this stage is better than hillary clinton. and at the end of the day, we need to unite behind the winner so we can defeat hillary clinton because she is a disaster. >> we don't need that. we don't need that. that's essentially what we now and we don't need that. and that's why we're in the trouble that we're in now. by the way, jeb, you mentioned boeing, take a look. they make boeing bill their plant in china. they don't want it made here. they want those planes made in china. that's not how the game is supposed to be played. >> the planes being built here is being sold to china. you flew in with your 767, didn't you? right there, right next to the
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plant. >> the new plants. i'm not talking about now, i'm talking about the future. they're building massive plants in china because china does not want boeing building their planes here. china happens to be smart the way they do it, not the way we do it. >> when you head back to the airport tonight, go check and see -- >> i'll check for you. >> check it out. >> some of the key moments from tonight. >> we haven't talked too much about bush, which is probably telling in and of itself. >> i actual find -- he had tonight what i thought was the best answer he's had on any debate. and it was the one on the guns. the gun question. he has a solid record on it. he has command of the issue. he put everything but the kitchen sink into that answer and it's coherent. it resonates in places like new hampshire and iowa. >> we're standing by with donald trump jr. in the spin room. dana?
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>> that's right, thanks, anderson. donald trump jr. >> i don't do prep with him. i build buildings. i build hotels. that's what i do. >> that's what he did in the beginning, too. >> not when you're spending other people's money like a politician, but when you're spending your own and put putting that on the line, it really matters. he's doing a phenomenal job. >> do you agree with your dad on issues? i know it's probably hard. nobody agrees on everything with everybody. to the point where you encourage him or give him advice, you know, dad, maybe you went too far on that or you need to go further on something else? >> i agree with him on so much of what he says. i'm a father of five children. i'm a sportsman, a hunter, a shooter. these are issues that are key. that's how i spend my life. a lot of people like to say i'm
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a city kid. i was in iowa last week sleeping on my friend's couch, hunting. i'm not doing that because it's politically cool piem doing that because it's a passion of mine and i've been out there doing that for years not just talking about it on tv. he's just doing an amazing job and it's incredible to see. the way he's been able to invigorate americans. >> while he's running for president, you're running the company? >> my siblings and myself, he trusts us to do that. i guess that's why he's running now as opposed to 2012. then we were a little younger and more glib. he wouldn't entrust the livelihoods of the tens of thousands of employees he has to us if he didn't think we could actually -- >> and what about the new york moment that happened in the debate? >> listen, for me, that was a very emotional moment. i'm a new yorker, but again, it's not about new york values. i'm just as comfortable in the country as i am in constituent.
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probably more so if you ask my father. but having lived through it and seeing that going on and having lost friends, it means something. but not just as a new yorker, it's about our entire country. >> thank you so much. appreciate you stopping. >> you're welcome. >> joining us right now is governor john kasich. it was great to have you on the broadcast. i'm wondering from your perspective standing on that stage, how did it go tonight? >> i was very happy. the greatest concerns about americans, being able to get a decent job and a little bit about bringing people together in our communities. i was very, very happy with it. and i was extremely comfortable up there and just really had a great time. i'm really, really happy. it goes along in a rise that we're having now in new hampshire where three of the last four polls put me in second
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place. it's exactly what we want to achieve tonight. >> those are the issues that we heard from you on the stage tonight. is that what you're hearing in town halls in new hampshire? >> sure. that's what you hear everywhere. you know, anderson, what it really gets down to, the old pros will tell you, at the end of the day, what matters the most is the size of your wall let. is your wall let getting fatter or is it getting thinner? and that doesn't mean that the homeland and security in the homeland doesn't matter. it's risen. but at the end of the day, people are very worried about economics. but look, i've gone from low in the pack now to running a strong second. something must be working and we have the best ground game in the state. i'm very pleased with where we are. the last poll had me about 15%, which is significantly ahead of third place. i'm leaving here tomorrow morning to go to new hampshire and i'll be back for my kid's 16th birthday on saturday.
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and thul of the kasichs are going to new hampshire on sunday. >> do you think ted cruz put to rest the issue of eligibility? >> oh, i guess so. i never took it eseriously to begin with. i have too much to worry about than where ted cruz was born. that doesn't matter to me. >> the exchange of donald trump and cruz on new york values, i'm wondering what you thought of that exchange. is. >> not a whole heck of a lot. i just don't think you want to be attacking people in new york or anything like that. i don't think that's very smart. but i think, you know, trump answered that pretty well in terms of 9/11. look, anderson, we've got a problem. people in their 50s have somebody show up and say you don't have a job anymore. you have people whose wages have not moved for a decade.
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you have people who rung up massive college debt and they're trying to figure out how to get a job and pay it off. i'm going to worry about those kinds of things, not for me. look, i'm not distracted by the single biggest issue, and that's giving americans economic security and an opportunity to move up and that for their children as well. and to be a voice of people who are often ignored. that's what it's all about for me and it's working. >> how critical is new hampshire for you. where do you see you have to place in order to move on past new hampshire? >> i have to come on "ac 360" the next day and you have to seau. if you come out of there, all of a sudden people are going to hear you. you're going to have national identification, something i've had to fight because i don't have the big name i.d. and thirdly you're going to raise money. the last few days we've raised a
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lot more money because people see these polls. and i think at the end, people say this is the guy with experience. he's been a reformer, he's g gotten the job done. we're not going to get anywhere just yelling at each other. >> gloria wants to ask a question. >> do you think that the republican primary debate has been kind of hijacked in a way, going off on tap gents, like cruz's eligibility that trump has raised? i mean, i have a sense of frustration from you that i'm hear i hearing about the issues you want to talk about. >> i'm not really frustrated, gloria. i'm having the time of of my life. i got a strong feeling i'm going
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to do very well there. and now we've organized in south carolina. we've got people on the ground. we've got people in nevada. we've got trent lott here tonight. he's got mississippi for me. then at some point we get to illinois, ohio, michigan, pennsylvania, these are all starts i can win. because as somebody said the other night, we've got the establishment lane and the anti-establishment lane and then we have the kasich lane. >> what's that? >> there's nobody in my lane but me. >> what is that lane? >> a responsible reformer who has great experience who's had great success in all the jobs that i've had by building a great team. that's that lane. speaking for the people who never get spoken for. not for the special interest, not for the rich, but for the people who often feel their voices aren't heard. whether it's welfare reform or working to cut a penny out of every dollar or whether it's balancing the budget or fighting the pentagon defense contractors that took advantage of us.
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that's who i am. when people hear it, they respond. i think. >> we appreciate your time tonight. thank you very much. all right, back to the campaign trail. no doubt for the governor and for all of these candidates, back to our panel. you know, with every debate, donald trump seems to be getting better. certainly tonight, he seems to think this was his best. a lot of people here seem to think that as well. if nobody else on that stage has been able to figure out a way to really make a dent in donald trump, and we've just seen his numbers growing, how does he not become the gop nominee? >> if trump wins iowa and new hampshire, then we're going to be having a very different conversation on the night of new hampshire. if cruz wins iowa and the question is -- if trump -- the big conversation is if trump loses, comes in second, does suddenly his support dissipate because he's not winning.
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. >> if trump wins, in marco in that lane, they would be beating donald trump. >> the trump lane. >> the mainstream has come down hard on those guys. . >> right now, tonight, i got the feeling from jeb bush when he
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said, you know, we're running for president, it's like they're punching jell-o. >> he dominates the stage. there's no doubt about it. >> the biggest unanswered question in this race. we know cruz is the social conservative tea party candidate. he's running a traditional evangelical now plus tea party newner this presidential cycles. he's that candidate. cruz is different -- the thing that makes him different than a mike huckabee, he has the money to go on and the organization to go on. we know trump is trump. he's unorthodox. not an ideological candidate. it's about strength, it's about bluster. >> and anger. >> so who is -- will there be one credible real establishment candidate? marco rubio thinks it's going to be him. early on, everyone thought it was going to be jeb bush. kasich is doing something that's interesting. he's right, he is in his own lane. will it work? we don't know.
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but what he's trying to be, i em the blue collar lunch bucket economic guy. yes, i'll balance the budget. he talks about it in a different way. trump has everybody else with the exception of cruz trying to beat a strong candidate, trying to be the tough candidate. >> and kasich is staying in his lane trying to be different. and if it can work in new hampshire, he's right. >> but kasich thinks it's a resume election and it isn't. he talked about his 18 years in washington. it doesn't mean a lot to this -- >> here's the problem tonight for the christie-kasich-bush crowd. they needed something fundamentally big to happen in order to change the trajectory or this race and they didn't get it. one of the big problems with the scenario john talked about is that early on, so many of those candidates thought that trump would fade away.
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if he doesn't win the nominat n nomination. just in terms of the focus of the debate. >> after new hampshire, you consolidate behind one of those -- >> but is the passion there to support one of those remaining people. >> if donald trump wins, will trump just get cruz. we'll have a lot more to talk about. tom foreman has a reality check right after this. one second it's there. then, woosh, it's gone. i swear i saw it swallow seven people. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪
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>> let's look at something marco rubio said about chris christie when it comes to gun control, education and planned parenthood. we have the reality check. >> all the candidates kept the reality check team hopping tonight, and no one more so than rubio because he was on the attack, as for example when he went after christie saying he's not conservative enough. >> unfortunately, governor christie has endorsed many of the ideas barack obama supports, whether it's common core or gun control or the do nation he made
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to planned parenthood. >> that's four really fast claims there. kbhon core. chris christie, in fact, did support common core for a period of time. now he changed his view. that claim was true. gun control, christie's stance has changed over a period of time. but he was following a program similar to what the president likes. that's also true. chris christie said he did not endorse sonia sotomayor, but the record says he did. that's also true. and planned parenthood, this claim is based on a 20-year-old newspaper article in which christie says he was misquoted about donating. said he never donated. we don't have any financial record to work this all out so the best we can say here is it's complicated. that's just one of the areas where rubio was on the attack. a lot of things to check out. you can learn more about it and all the many things we checked out in this debate by going to cnn.com/reality check.
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>> tom, thanks very much. we're back here with our panel. gloria borjer, john king, anna navorro, jeffrey carpenter. it was interesting your point, amanda earlier, tomorrow when the dust settles, some of the exchanges you think that -- or hits marco rubio made on ted cruz will not seem as authoritative. >> it's interesting. marco rubio, this is a debate tactic called the spread. you throw a bunch of attacks knowing they will not have enough time to answer it. i think it's pretty effective against chris christie. the spread he deployed against ted cruz, manipulating senate records and votes, people are going to go through that quite deeply. i think the facts will be on ted cruz's side in the end. but more interesting broadly higher level with marco rubio and the kind of competition he's locked in chris christie, jeb. i think he's far more assertive. i think he kind of got chris christie to blow his lid a later on in the debate where they had
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a question about entitlements. christie said marco, you blew it. it was so unnecessarily mean. i think it showed such immaturity on chris christie's part. >> in terms of who needs -- certainly it's new hampshire, i mean, if chris christie doesn't have a strong showing in new hampshire, if kasich doesn't have a strong showing in new hampshire, if bush doesn't have a strong showing in new hampshire, do they have legs in south carolina? >> i think the path is very difficult for those three. but also it depends on how you deskrien strong showing. you saw kasich wouldn't tell you whether he needed to be first, second third. they all want to lower expectations. and anna knows this about the bush people. they've sort of been saying well, it used to be they had to win new hampshire. now it's like we have to come in the top three in new hampshire. so everybody spends their lives trying to lower expectation ps so they exceed expectations. >> but the truth is out of the all the names we just mentioned, kasich and chris christie have
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put all their eggs in the new hampshire basket. jeb bush and marco rubio have been spending time and have been building teams in south carolina. we have seen that a slew of endorsements that used to be with lindsey graham have gone to jeb bush. some have gone to marco rubio. even if they don't win the establishment leg in new hampshire, john kasich and chris christie have come to the end of the road. >> endorsements matter. >> i think we're seeing -- i think we're seeing jeb bush run a very traditional campaign in south carolina and a very untraditional psych. i think if you look, too, one of the problems he's going to have if he doesn't win new hampshire, the amount of money spent up there, the way they touted their organization, to not get first or second place will be a very tough day after. >> and the gaps are going to matter, too. and we're talk about new hampshire. let's assume that trump and cruz are going to be one and two in
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iowa. 17 days is a long time. a lot could change. but if trump and cruz are one and two, who piece third in iowa matters. because that's -- if that person is one of the establishment candidates, if it's rubio or bush, that will help you at least a bit. at least you can go to new hampshire then and you come in ahead of christie, kasich and the other day. >> and spending money against marco rubio in iowa because they're trying to stop any momentum he has with a third place and using to leverage more momentum in new hampshire. >> bush did try to take on trump over china. i want to play that for our viewers. >> how about boeing right here within a mile. you think that the chinese if they have a 45% tariff imposed on all of their imports wouldn't retaliate and start buying air bus? of course they would. this would be devastating for their economy. we need somebody with a steady hand being president of the united states. >> real quickly, then we have to get to tax reform. >> we don't need a weak person being president of the united
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states. that's what we would get if it were jeb. we don't need that. [ booing ] we don't need that. that's essentially what we have now. and we don't need that. and that's why we're in the trouble that we're now -- and by the way, jeb, you mentioned boeing. take a look. they order planes, they make boeing build their plant in china. they don't want it made here. they want those planes made in china. >> they're a mile away -- >> that's not the way the game is supposed to be played. >> my name with us mentioned here. the simple fact is that the planes being built here is being sold to china. you flew in with your 767, didn't you? right there, right next to the plant. >> the new plants. i'm not talking about now. i'm talking about in the future. they're billion dollaring massive plants in china because china does not want boeing building their plants here. they want them built in china because china happens to be smart the way they do it, not the way we do it. >> when you head back to the airport tonight, go check and see -- >> isle check for you. >> check it out>> it's almost
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hard to watch. because jeb bush has tried this, going after donald time and time again and it doesn't work. and he's gone further and furth further the stage and donald trump is just going up. it's hard to see what his comeback is because he's tried everything. he's tried to say he's the establishment. he's tried to say he's the most electable candidate. he could do well with different types of voters and expand the party. he's wracked up endorsement fps. >> it's a battle of two different personalities and two different ways of approaching things and looking at things. and even probably in human interaction. >> jeb bush thought his role in the race was to be the conservative governor against the christie and the kasich. you get the governor lane which in the republican presidential primaries, the governor lane is a good lane to have. governor romney, governor reagan, governor bush. it's not a bad lane to have in republican primaries traditionally, but forget tradition, forget orthodoxy. jeb likes to say he's his own man. you heard him mention the retired general in south
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carolina supported him from the audience. talked about the boeing plant just up the road. he understands that south carolina if he can survive iowa and new hampshire, south carolina is the end up be all. george h.w. bush loses iowa to bob dole, loses new hampshire, south carolina. it was over. wins iowa, loses new hampshire. john mccain, south carolina was the firewall, it was over. in bush family history, south carolina matters. >> nikki haley also mentioned the citadel. jeb is consistently carving a role as the anti-trump. he's attacking him time and time again. he was the only guy on that stage today who took him on on the muslim barn. he wasn't the only one but he went on the kin that terror stuff. but for those of us who wanted the alternative to trump, he's saying i'm taking up the manner. familiar a lot of people who don't agree with trump. >> but the message is --
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>> i think marco rubio, a big story line out of this is he's proved he will get down and dirty with candidates that he's fighting again. there will be pressure on marco rubio now to turn that same kind of fire towards ted cruz and chris christie to donald trump. >> you wish. wishful thinking, amanda. >> i'm the establishment guy is not the message to be carrying here. that's the message that jeb got into this with. he's still got it. and there he is on stage trying to push this. and i just don't think it's there. the muslim comment that he referred to trump is the one that got the applause there tonight on that. >> right. it wasn't as if there was a huge ground swell with bush pushing back on donald trump. certainly polls indicate a lot of popularity for trump. >> the guy is actually saying what he believes. think of that. >> and he's at 5 brs in the polls. >> here's the dis-nance with jeb bush, we need somebody with a
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steady hand being president of the united states. that was his message. i am the anti-trump. on the other hand, on the campaign trail, he kind of calls trump a jerk and he uses language you kind of wouldn't expect from jeb bush because he doesn't know how to fight trump. he doesn't know whether to get sort of down in the mud with him, or whether to sort of float above him as the serious guy. it's hard for him. >> obviously another big story line going into this, one of the big questions going into this was how would cruz handle the inevitable questions about goldman sachs, which he went after on the campaign trail against "the new york times" and also as a fundraising method. let's take a look at how he responded. >> well, maria, thank you for passing on that hip piece on the front page of the new york times. the nice thing about the mainstream media, they don't hide their views. "the new york times" had a columnist who wrote a column saying anybody but cruz.
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had that same columnist wrote a column comparing me to a ooel demonic spirit from the movie "it follows" that jumps apparently from body to body, possessing people. so "the new york times" and i don't exactly have the warmest of relationships. now in terms of their really stunning hit piece what they mentioned was when i was running for senate, unlike hillary clinton, i don't have masses of money in the bank, hundreds of millions of dollars. when i was running for senate, just about every lobbyist, just about all the establishment opposed me in the senate race in texas. and my opponent in that rals was worth over $200 million. he put a $25 million check up from his own pocket to fund that campaign. and my wife heidi and i, we ended up investing everything we own. we took a loan against our assets to invest it in that campaign to defend ourself
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against those attacks. and the entire new york times attack is that i disclosed that loan on one filing with the united states senate that was a public filing, but it was not on a second filing with the fec. >> is this something that has legs? >> "the new york times" piece basically said there was no proof that he got any favorable terms on his loan. so that's kind of one thing. i think the way it hurts cruz is that he's sort of this ant anti-elite candidate and it plays against that. if you look to ted cruz, he went to princeton, harvard law, he was a supreme court law clerk. he worked for george w. bush. so, you know, this guy came from a very elite, establishment lane. his wife works at goldman sachs or worked at goldman sachs.
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and i think it sort of play against type, but in the long term, i think the argument that he uses, oh, this is "the new york times." i think that plays very well with a republican primary. >> if you take parts of that answer individually, they were very effective. but but he put so many points into that answer and it was so convoluted. >> he sang a five-note tune when he just needed one whistle. but i don't think it will linger. i think he has a much larger body of work as a, quote, authentic populist with so many of the people that support him that i don't think this particular issue is going to move them off. >> it's not unlike the trump situation where charge comes up and the trump people are just going to keep going anyway. i think the cruz people are going to stick with ted cruz here. they're not going to abandon him because of this. >> i think the way he answers question, it is a little long winded. but i think it's kind of folksy and it sounds like he's telling stories often times.
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it worked very well with newt gingrich. >> shorten the story, that's all. >> but i got to tell you, i think it's anything but folksy. it comes across as having this weird, dramatic flair. >> if you sit in a church on sunday, that's how they sound. >> and his father -- >> what are you trying to say? >> church is one of those buildings with a steeple. >> i invite you to go on sunday. >> i've been to church more than you have. judging by the blank look on your face. >> amanda just pointed out, they serve wine. >> governor clinton who got name checked a lot. i'll google them during the break. she kwags in on the kind of treatment she's been getting with republicans. what do doctors from
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the gop candidates went off hillary clinton on the debate stage tonight. everyone took swipes at her here's just a sapling. >> we cannot give hillary cloin ton a third term of barack obama. if i'm the nominee, she won't get within ten miles of the white house. >> hillary clinton wouldn't just be a disaster, hillary clinton is disqualified from being commander in chief of the united states. >> unlike hillary clinton, i don't have masses of money in the bank, hundreds of millions of dollars. >> everybody on this stage is better than hillary clinton. and at the end of the day, we need to unite behind the winner to beat hillary clinton because she is a disaster.
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>> hillary clinton was on a different stage tonight with jimmy fallon talking about her treatment by the gop candidates as she sees it. take a look. >> you'll do anything to not watch the republican debates. >> yeah, i think you nailed that. >> you have to watch the debates, right? >> usually i'm not home when the debates are going on. i have other things i'm out doing. i do try to catch up on them. >> what's it like? >> i like to be able to fast forward. >> that's always nice. always fun. is it hill clinton with a bowl of popcorn and just sitting back with a glass of wine watching oh, that's i don't think. -- oh, that's wrong. do you watch it with bill? >> sometimes. >> does he pause it and say that's not how you do it. who's making a mistake. he should have went. >> were you in the kitchen? >> does he do that? >> he does have a running
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commentary. we both do. can you believe what he just said? what does that mean? i have no idea. ongoing dialogue about it. >> gosh, i hope it doesn't happen, but they might say something bad about you. >> that's happened more than a few times. >> you should have a drinking game, every time they say your name you do a shot. >> well -- [ applause ] >> i don't think i would make it past the first half-hour. >> it would be interesting to see the kind of word count on this, but it seem to you that they were talking about hillary clinton as much this time? i thought it was a little more. >> yeah. >> for the obvious reason, we're getting closer and closer here and she's in the news. one of the things that i thought was interesting was the jeb bush remark about the fbi. i think that's a real story that's out there.
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so the fact that this is mentioned, no small thing. i've been hearing about this again from republican candidates. >> i think a lot of them spent more time talking about barack obama. than about the presumptive nominee. bernie sanders is giving her a run for her money. maybe she's not the presumptive nominee. >> but part of that is the state of the union was just two days ago. >> they were talking about the state of the union speech and how, you know, obama painted a rosy picture. but you know we don't hear about is the hillary clinton e-mails from the republicans anymore. we used to hear about that constantly. i think that he probably -- >> i think clinton's best line was from marco rubio saying she wouldn't go to the white house -- >> that was jeb bush. >> he was saying he wouldn't let hillary clinton wouldn't get within ten miles to the white house, i jurs picture him closing the bridges to washington.
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>> her lead over bernie sanders was artificial. she always knew it was going to disappear and she's very excited by that. we should send that to tom foreman and the fact check. >> she also said she doesn't pay attention to polls. >> then she cited another poll. >> she's really happy to not be inevitable again. >> i don't think donald trump mentioned hillary clinton. >> but he did mention polls. >> he certainly did. but again, in terms of ground game in iowa, ground game in new hampshire, does trump have a ground game? >> we don't know. we don't know. honestly, you never know until you know in iowa. i mean, i remember when howard
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dean -- we thought howard dean was going to mobilize all these voters. and we don't know ability donald trump. just like in a way we didn't know about barack obama. and he either could bring in all these new people to the caucuses or he could not. and we just -- it takes organization, it takes passion. we know we have the passion from his supporters. we don't know that he's got the buses to get them to the caucuses or the organization. >> that business has changed so much. it's just so digital now. it used to be -- sorry, i remember rotary phones. when you went into a phone bank and people were using rotary phones. >> what was that like? you had a piece of faerp and you went door to door. now they get your e-mail, your
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phone number, they text you, they want you to communicate back. they ask you questions about which caucus tests your level. then they put you on a level. you're a, solid, going to vote. b, they think you're going to solid, follow up a couple of times. c and d, we go the to really work this person. the obama campaign was effective at that. we'll see if the trump campaign, do they have that level of sophistication. and b, do they need it. >> when you have -- >> came out of the woodwork sometimes. >> when you have 10,000 people coming to a stadium to see you and waiting for two hours sometimes in the cold to go in. that's another way of showing some level of commitment. >> right, it is. true. and the thing is, donald trump has already upset a lot of the conventional wisdom about how campaigns are run and who does well. it should be this sort of passion and attachment that so many of these people feel about donald trump could drive them out there. >> the difference between winning the caucuses and losing the caucuses in iowa is knowing
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and guessing. the one thing you know about the cruz operation is that when they go out there and they gauge voters on their intensity of 1 to 100, they're getting high intensity feedback. and not only that, those same voters are saying not only am i voting, i'm going to find ten of my friends. that's probably the difference between winning the caucus and losing. the trump people say i'm for trump. but the question is, are they going out there and serving as precinct volunteers and going out and getting ten others. that will be the difference. >> the trump question, i think it's really important to consider and remember that trump is a media maestro. he knows how to stay relevant in the media, dominate the media, dominate the polls. these are things that are not necessarily persuasive to gop primary voters. while we may be consumed by them, the gop base have shown
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over and over again they don't care about the media. >> but this is not an over and over again year. the rules don't apply. it stands on its own. i think kevin is absolutely right. we really will not know until caucus night until those folks show up and stand there in a corner and listen to 11, 12 speeches and stand there, you know, for hours waiting to cast their vote. we simply don't know. >> the cruz campaign is all about the data in iowa and the trump campaign is all about the passion. of their supporters. when it comes to your voters, you may want to err on the side of data with your caucus. it takes a lot of work. if you have people persuading their friends, as kevin is talking about, that's invaluable. and the cruz campaign knows exactly where these people are. they know who's persuadable and they're going after them because they are obama 4.0 when it comes
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to technology. >> when we get the entrance polls before we get the vets, they're never definitive, but what are the percent of evangelicals showing up for the caucuses? 57%. romney and santorum were essentially tied and santorum beat them. 23 they say they're first-time caucus number, that is better for trump. >> and in the end, will the results matter. >> we're talking about passion. and intensity draws people to vote, sometimes moments matter. here's one's trump's exchange with cruz over new york values. >> i think most people know exactly what new york values are. >> i'm from new york. >> you're from new york so you might not. but i prom you in south carolina they do. and listen, there are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men
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and women in the state of new york. but everyone understands they're socially liberal or pro abort n abortion, pro gay marriage, to kwus around the money and the media. and i would note indeed the reason i said that asked, donald trump took to his seents playing bruce springsteen's "born in the usa" and i was skz about that and i said well, maybe he should play "new york new york" the values aren't that hard to figure out. not too many years ago, donald did a long interview with tim rurs sert. and in that interview he egs plained his views on a whole host of issues that are very different from the views he's describing now. and his explanation, he said look, i'm from new york. that's what we believe in new york. those aren't iowa value, but this is what we belief in new york.
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so that was his explanation. and i guess i can frame it another way. not a lot of conservatives come out of manhattan. i'm just saying. >> so conservatives actually do come out of manhattan including william f. buckley and others, just so you understand. and just so -- because he insulted a lot of people, i've had more calls on that statement that ted made. new york is a great place. it's got great people, wonderful people. >> we didn't play the full response by trump. invoking 9/11 and obviously trump shutting cruz down. >> trump won. in a ted cruz rally in iowa or south carolina, that line works. but donald trump is not there to
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answer you there. on a debate stage when trump is there and he knew this was going to come up. or trump was prepared for it, he was prepared and he hit it. >> the problem cruz has on this issue is he's a little late to the party. for months when trump started surging, we've all been saying, many of us in the party have been saying he's not a true conservative. he's not a true republican. look at where he's been on guns and gay rights. a conservative movement, he was sucking up to donald trump, who he thought was not going to withstand the rigors of the race and he could inherit those followers. it's a little too late now to be turning it around. >> you always want it to be attractive to other voters. not attacking ted cruz has worked for him. you' what jeb bush is doing to
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marco rubio, going nasty and hard. i think it's a terrible tactic and cruz chose the -- >> this is stepping up. the days are ticking off here. >> i will say -- >> in some ways, this will be defined and there will be more attacks. >> someone with yonkers, new york, values, i will predict the new york values line of attack will start to fade away. you won't hear it again. >> what we saw tonight is, you know, setting the tone for the next two weeks, the next month. trump and cruz are going to continue going at each other very hard. cruz and rubio are going to continue hitting each other. we saw rubio hit cruz so, so hard today. that exchange has been going on now for almost 2 1/2 months. we're going to see the three big dogs in the establishment lane trying to make a lane for themselves and come out of the pack. >> we'll be right back.
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>> it will be an in evening in south carolina. the stakes keep going. as we saw tonight, it really showed on the stage where things go from here, is anybody's guess.
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thanks tonight if to everyone. we'll see you. thanks for watching right now, cn in the news room. >> this is ynn news room. republican presidential candidates replace shots during their latest debate. but some of the sharpest blows were for hill clinton. the white house insists iran's release of u.s. sailors is a sign of progress. and the oscars once again drawing fire for the nominees' lack of diversity. hello, everybody. great to have you with us. we wl welcome our viewers in the united states and all around the world. "news room l.a." starts right now.

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