tv The Lead With Jake Tapper CNN January 27, 2016 1:00pm-2:01pm PST
because he's doing well in the polls. >> okay. by the way, she said yes because you're dana bash, cnn, that's why. >> i wish. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. thank you all for being with me. i'm brooke baldwin, now to jake tapper. "the lead" starts now. >> thanks, brooke. only donald trump can pass off center stage and still command all the attention. "the lead" starts right now. it's a move that should be political suicide, taking his ball and going home just days before the iowa caucuses, which is exactly why skipping tomorrow night's debate will probably hurt everyone except for donald trump. also, flint, michigan's, own michael moore. we'll talk about the bizarre 2016 race and the tragedy of kids being poisoned by the water in his hometown. why does he say this is a racist crime. plus new fears about a virus possibly passed from mother to baby. the unknowns just as terrifying as the very visible birth
defects. how can pregnant mothers protect themselves and their future children. hello, everyone. welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. five days until iowa and we begin with our politics lead, of course. just as it seemed donald trump was finally making peace with the establishment, the billionaire businessman declared war again. this time with the premiere conservative media organization in the nation. trump is refusing to participate in the fox news channel debate saying instead he'll host his own event in iowa for veterans. not surprisingly, he has generated a surge of coverage for himself in these tension-filled days before the first votes are cast. sunlen serfaties live covering ted cruz. how are cruz and the other candidates responding to this event? >> reporter: well, jake, tonight one campaign telling me they feel that the state of the race is now in limbo and that's largely reflective the responses
we've seen today including from ted cruz now challenging donald trump to a mano y mano debate between the two of them. >> i think they can do a lot better -- >> reporter: the gop front-runner going rogue. >> i probably won't bother doing the debate. i see they picked me as number one. not only number one, but number one by far. >> reporter: claiming unfair treatment from fox news and megyn kelly, the trump campaign saying no bluffing here, trump will not be at thursday's debate. >> i said bye-bye. >> reporter: so the final straw, according to trump, a statement from fox news issued after trump expressed concern about kelly's bias against him including this snarky dig. we learned from the secret back channel that the ayatollah and putin both tend to treat donald trump unfairly if he becomes president. a nefarious source tells us that trump has his own secret plan to replace the cabinet with his twitter followers to see if he
should even go to those meetings. trump now pushing ahead with his only counterprogramming. >> we'll have our own event. >> reporter: what he claims will be a televised event in des moines, iowa, to raise money for wounded veterans, the same night in the same city as the debate. fox news saying they can't give in to terrorizations towards any of our employees, insisting trump is still welcome at the debate but he can't dictate the moderators or the questions. >> i don't know what games roger ailes laying. >> the trump campaign saying no dice. >> people that bought advertising time will be very disappointed who nobody watches the gop debate. >> reporter: and trump returning even more fire, calling the network a disgrace to good broadcasting and journalism and renewing his taunts of megyn kelly, tweeting that he refuses to call megyn kelly a bimbo because that would not be politically correct. instead, i will only call her a lightweight reporter. >> the men and women of iowa --
>> reporter: ted cruz looking to turn the feud to his advantage, sending out a fund-raising e-mail to supporters depicting trump was money grubbing scrooge mcduck for ducking out on the debate. >> apparently megyn kelly is really, really scary. donald is a fragile soul. >> reporter: and issuing this challenge to his rival in front of iowa voters. >> if he's unwilling to stand on the debate stage with the other candidates, then i would like to invite donald right now to engage in a one-on-one debate with me any time between now and the iowa caucuses. >> reporter: and the trump campaign not taking the bait on that one. they say that they will only debate ted ted crcruz alone if comes down to a two-man race. joining me with a candidate who boycotted the last republican debate, kentucky senator and republican presidential candidate rand paul who didn't go for the fox business channel's undercard
debate. senator paul, thanks for being here. you'll be back on the main stage for tomorrow's debate. what do you think of donald trump, the front-runner, deciding to skip it? >> well, you know, most of his life he's been a democrat, maybe he'll go to the democrat debate instead. he's somewhat mercurial and unpredictable so maybe he'll show up for the democrat debate. for me it's a double win. we'll be on the main stage talking about ideas and i think i have a unique place in that i'm one of the few republicans that says that the government shouldn't be collecting all of our phone records, our credit card statements, and that we do have a right to be left alone. i think that's an important voice. i think i'm also a voice of reason when it comes to foreign policy in the sense that i don't think that making the sand glow or carpet bombing in the middle east will make us safer. in fact i think we may create more terrorists than we kill. >> i don't want to ask too much about your prediction for tomorrow night, but do you think it's better off that he's not on
the stage? will that change -- obviously you'll have a little bit more time, but will it change the tenor at all? >> i think donald trump's main addition that he's brought to the debate this year has been silliness, bombast, empty rhetoric and calling people names. i don't think he's added much of substance the whole year. i don't think that he'll be missed. in fact, i really don't think donald trump is a conservative. i think he's a fake and a charlitan. he says give me power. he wants power but most of us who are conservatives want to limit how much power is in washington and we want a smaller government. from what i hear from donald, he wants the reins of power, he doesn't want to lessen the amount of power in washington. >> ted cruz is the other front-runner in iowa where you're competing right now. a source says that cruz expects he will become the main target on stage. you've questioned ted cruz's authenticity. are you going to talk about that
tomorrow night? >> yeah, i think what's important is, you know, ted says he was for the nsa reform, the right to be left alone, which i championed. but then on the stage recently he said to marco rubio, he said oh, no, no, the reason he voted for it is he wants the government to collect 100% of your cell phone records. most of those from the liberty wing of the party don't like that. they wonder why he didn't show up to vote and they also wonder about carpet bombing in the middle east, whether or not indiscriminate bombing and laying waste to whole cities whether that will make us safer or just adds to the chaos and adds to the encouragement for more terrorism. so we have a lot of differences with ted cruz, but i think the liberty movement is sensing that there is a lack of authenticity with regard to cruz. >> some in the republican establishment have been urging candidates who do not perform well in iowa or new hampshire to drop out given the dynamics of the race. where do you think a candidate has to finish in iowa and/or new
hampshire in order to credibly continue, top three? >> you know, i think the first thing is we shouldn't predecide it so we do need to let the voters in iowa and new hampshire cast their votes. our team in iowa right now has made 800,000 phone calls so we really want to know how the iowa voters vote. we've done a lot of work. we have 1,000 precinct chairs. we think we're going to outdo all expectations, but it's hard to say exactly what place, this or that. i grew up in competitive swimming and we never went into a meet saying i think i'll try for third place or sixth place. it's hard from a candidate's point of view to think that way. we think about winning. we think we have the grounds game to win. it would be a shocker to the media, but we feel that the polls are not very accurate anymore because so many people have cell phones that we think the younger vote is not counted and we think we'll do really well with the younger vote. >> well, senator rand paul, good luck out there. we'll see you on the campaign
trail. >> thank you. >> trump says his supporters are so loyal he could shoot somebody in the street and would not lose voters. is that true? we talked to 150 voters to see what is behind the trump at the na phenomenon. that story next. the best simple veggie dish ever? heart healthy california walnuts. the best simple dinner ever? heart healthy california walnuts. great tasting, heart healthy california walnuts. so simple. get the recipes at walnuts.org. the possibility of a flare swas almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me
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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we've got five days, people. the race is tighter than a tick so hillary clinton is busy today retail politicking in iowa. why with so little time to claw for every last vote in iowa, why did senator bernie sanders spend part of his day in washington, d.c.? well, he met with president obama. cnn senior washington correspondent jeff zeleny is in des moines. president obama gave an interview to politico's glenn thrush thought he not so subtly was pushing clinton. what did he have to say?
>> he sure did. just the image of senator sanders standing in the west wing of the white house was a sight to behold for his supporters. he was asked if he asked the president for an endorsement. he said no, he did not. senator sanders said he also thought the president had been treating him fairly. >> some discussion the other day about a political interview where he was tipping the scale toward secretary clinton, i don't believe that at all. i think he and the vice president have tried to be fair and even-handed in the process and i expect they will continue to be that. >> reporter: so i think that is just a bit of optimism there from senator sanders. if you talk to his advisers, they believe privately of course the president and more importantly a lot of the people in his administration are siding more with secretary clinton. not a surprise. she of course was a member of the administration. but voters here in iowa, jake, as well as other states are going to make up their own minds here so it was definitely worth a detour to washington for
senator sanders to talk with the president. i'm told that they talked about specifics of his own 20 -- his own campaigning in 2008. of course he won here in iowa. so they talked about how he won and some strategies going forward. but at the same time, hillary clinton started a new ad here in iowa today urging voters once again to elect someone who can actually get things done. so, jake, experience versus enthusiasm, five more days, as you said. >> all right, jeff zeleny, thank you so much. donald trump, we've pretty much emptied the tank in ways to describe just how shocking his presidential bid has been, both for his astounding ability to attack sacred cows and insult key demographics while also continuing to dominate in the polls. so many people have speculated what is fueling his success. cnn national political reporter sara murray is in des moines. sara, you and a team of other cnn supporters talk to trump supporters across the country.
what did they tell you? >> reporter: that's right, jake, people have been stunned and even baffled by the amount of support donald trump has drawn. that's why my colleagues and i talked to more than 150 voters across 31 cities about what kind of person is fueling this extraordinary support we've seen for donald trump. >> i actually voted for barack obama four years ago. biggest mistake of my entire life. and now it's either -- it's donald trump or nobody. >> reporter: in an extraordinary election year, donald trump is drawing them by the thousands. >> i want to show the tremendous crowds that we get. it's not really a silent majority, it's a noisy as hell majority. >> reporter: frustrated voters, mostly white, unhappy with elites from both parties and the media, and fearful of immigrants taking their place. above all, they're longing for an america that used to be. >> we are going to make america great again. i love you. >> reporter: their distrust of
president obama runs deep. some question whether he's a christian, others whether he was born in the u.s. >> i just think he is pro-black. i don't know. i hate to say he's a racist, but i really believe he is. >> reporter: some sense racial tension in america, but believe it's white americans facing discrimination. >> white americans founded this country, but we are being pushed aside because of the present administration and the media, the liberal media. >> reporter: they feel left out of the economic recovery and worry about immigrants taking their jobs and getting ahead at americans' expense. >> if he can bring middle class jobs back to america, that's what resonates with me. we do have an immigration problem in this country. the fact that we can't -- it lowers the wages. >> reporter: and in the wake of terror attacks in paris and san bernardino, they're nervous. >> 999 of them could be good people.
it only takes one terrorist to blow this whole place up. >> reporter: trump's explosive rhetoric speaks to those anxieties, labeling undocumented immigrants as dangerous criminals. >> they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some i assume are didn't pe good people. >> reporter: even suggesting america ban muslims. >> we're calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> reporter: he's taken what was once seen as impolite conversation and made it socially acceptable to some. >> i'm afraid to say what i really feel, you know, because it's not politically correct. >> reporter: but his crowds are also raucous and sometimes violent. trump's words have garnered a following. >> there's a movement. >> reporter: but there are millions who don't agree with him. they have their own fears. >> being muslim today is not easy. they are doing to muslims today
what they have done to the jewish in 1938. >> reporter: now, jake, there's no doubt that donald trump has drawn more support in a republican primary than we ever expected, but it's how his rhetoric sits with voters like that last person you heard from. democrats, independents and some republicans that could hurt him if he is the nominee in a general election. jake. >> sara murray, thanks so much. a virus that is being linked to serious birth defects hits the u.s. and nobody seems to know how to stop it. could it become a pandemic? plus they vowed to go down shooting. now one is dead and several others have been arrested during a shootout between the fbi, police and armed anti-u.s. government protesters who have been standing their ground on federal land for weeks. that's next. this is my family. being a part of helping people in need is who i am. working at brookdale for me is not just a job, it's a life for me. i love it.
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injured, several others in jail after a dramatic confrontation between the fbi, oregon state police and armed anti-government activists at a wildlife refuge that began late last night when ammon bundy and several of his supporters were pulled over on the highway and arrested. they were occupying the malheur national wildlife refuge protesting what they describe as government overreach on lands. dan, what do we know about the person who was killed? >> reporter: hi, jake. the person who was killed was a 54-year-old mormon rancher from arizona. but before we get into it, before we talk about the arrest, i want to tell you that the situation still remains very tense. you still have a number of armed occupiers at the refuge. at this point it's anyone's guess how this is going to end. in terms of the arrest, it's clear that authorities wanted to do this in a way where community bystanders could not be hurt. that much they accomplished. of course you have the one
occupier who was killed. authorities say this did not have to happen. more than three weeks after armed militia took over a federal wildlife refuge in oregon, a deadly shootout between militia members and the police. >> yesterday the fbi with our partners took the first steps to bring this occupation to a conclusion. >> reporter: group leader ammon bundy and seven others were arrested tuesday night after the fbi and oregon state police pulled them over on their way to a meeting with community residents. bundy's brother, ryan, was shot and suffered minor wounds. but a spokesman for the armed occupiers, lavoy finicum, was killed. >> it's time for everybody in this illegal occupation to move on. there doesn't have to be bloodshed in our community. >> reporter: bundy's father said his son called him from the back of a police cruiser moments after the shootout. >> my son, ryan, had been shot in the arm.
lavoy finicum, they cold-blooded killed him. they said he was out, had his hands in the air. they said he wasn't armed, he wasn't any threat and they cold-blooded just killed him. >> reporter: authorities say ryan bundy and finicum did not obey orders to surrender and shots were fired. the armed group took over the refuge on january 2nd to protest the sentencing of two ranchers and make a stand against government rovoverreach when it comes to federal lands. >> we felt we had to make a stand to defend our rights records finicum told reporters he was willing to give his life for the cause. >> there are things more important than your life and freedom is one of them. >> reporter: the sheriff had been working with the group to find a peaceful solution, but in the end he couldn't meet their ultimatums. >> we don't arm up and rebel. we work through the appropriate channels. this can't happen anymore. this can't happen in america and it can't happen in harney county. >> reporter: we don't know how
many armed occupiers are left, but clearly law enforcement is a bit anxious. we just saw a number of vehicles speed down this highway. i should tell you that this road right here remains closed to the public, so clearly something may be in the works, but we don't know, of course, what law enforcement is going to do or how this is going to end. jake. >> all right, dan simon, stay safe. thanks so much. it causes serious birth defects and there's no vaccine. the dangerous mosquito-borne virus that's spreading with new cases now in the united states. so can it be stopped? what should you do? that story next. hi i'm heather cox
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welcome back to "the lead." the national lead now sounding the alarm. the u.s. just added the u.s. virgin islands to the list of 24 places where women who are pregnant are advised not to visit for fear of contracting the zika virus linked to potentially deadly birth defects. president obama is now calling for more research and more funding. the concerns, keeping isolated cases in the u.s. just that,
isolated. there's no vaccine to prevent or medicine to treat the virus. dr. sanjay gupta joins me now. it wouldn't take much for this virus to spread in the u.s., one imagines? >> i think the virus will show up in the united states, but my suspicion is that it won't spread like we've seen it spread in other countries. i mean little things, jake, make a difference. having screens on windows, having air conditioned places makes it harder for this virus to actually take hold. take a look, jake, at where this all starts. so this is the blood sucker everyone is after. the female mosquito. she's the main carrier of several dangerous viruses spread around the world, including yellow fever, dengae, chicken fever and now zika. zika is spreading in the caribbean, mexico and brazil, which is also the site of this summer's olympic games. unlike other mosquito-borne diseases, zika is of particular
concern to pregnant women because brazil is now the epicenter of a zika epidemic linked to babies born with microcephaly. it's a condition where the baby's head and brain don't develop. nearly 4200 babies have been born with this condition since october. that's compared with 146 in all of 2014. 51 of those babies have died. women living in brazil, el salvador, colombia and jamaica are now being told not to get pregnant at this time. and in the united states, the cdc is also sounding the alarm. >> pregnant women should consider deferring travel to areas where zika virus is circulating. >> reporter: also if you traveled to these destinations while pregnant, get tested, because 80% of those infected have no symptoms. babies should also be screened after birth. >> it's important for them to go in because we really don't know
right now whether having symptoms or not having symptoms with zika virus infection has any impact on the possibility that they'll be a birth defect in the child. >> reporter: one baby was born with microcephaly in hawaii. his mom had traveled to brazil during her pregnancy. other states are reporting confirmed cases of zika, but officials stress they did not get the virus here. instead, all had recently traveled to countries where zika is circulating. but if or when zika is locally transmitted, for those who are not expecting, the virus is usually mild and not a danger to future births. >> they will resolve the infection and they will have immunity. should they plan to get pregnant in years in the future, in a few years or whatever, there really is absolutely no cause for concern. >> jake, i should mention the whole connection between zika virus and microcephaly, scientists are trying to unravel this.
if you think about other diseases caused by similar mosquitos, dengae, for example, you do get cases in the united states but not widespread like in other countries, so this may come here but likely not become widespread like we are seeing in south and central america. >> all right, dr. sanjay gupta, thank you so much. joining me now, dr. anthony fauci. thank you for joining us. you met with president obama and briefed him on the zika outbreak. how concerned are you and health officials about this virus? >> we certainly are taking it very seriously. this is something that clearly is an ongoing pandemic in the making in south america and in the caribbean. there has been this association both temporally and geographically with mothers so we need to get on and study very, very carefully but also we need to have preparation, which
we are starting now in a very aggressive way for things like better diagnostics, working on a vaccine, screening for therapeutics and also talking about understanding better the natural history of this particular issue because it really is brand new. remember, zika was a fundamentally inconsequential virus until it swept into an area, namely the western hem fear and the americas where we've not had this before so we are putting what a call a full-court press in multiple departments, the cdc, nih and other agencies of government are being involved with this. >> dr. fauci, a lot of americans travel to these infected areas with an outbreak itself, brazil the epicenter. thousands will travel there in a few months for the olympics. do you think the united states should ban travel until -- >> no. >> how about for pregnant women? >> no, you don't want to do travel bans. i think the cdc has taken a very prudent approach. they have made recommendations that women who are pregnant,
planning to be pregnant or might be pregnant should be advised that they would only travel to those regions unless it's absolutely necessary and that they should consult their physician about how they should react in a certain situation like this. so right now it's recommended that unless you absolutely have to travel if you're pregnant that you don't travel to those areas until we can figure out a little bit more about what is going on because this is still something that's evolving. so i would recommend to the american public to follow closely the cdc recommendations. they're very clear. if you want to do it, just go to cdc.gov, click zika and see what the recommendations are. >> and just to be clear, dr. fauci, even though there are cases in the u.s. virgin islands and hawaii, that does not mean that there is zika being carried by mosquitos, it's still okay for women who are pregnant and want to get pregnant or planning to get pregnant to go to hawaii or the virgin islands? >> well, again, the virgin
islands is one of the places now that's in the group of areas that the cdc is recommending among the 22 areas that have had what we call -- >> so they should not go there. >> right, exactly. what people need to understand is that there are a lot of people who will be coming back who are going to be developing this. that doesn't mean that there's zika in the united states that's locally transmitted. we've had that experience with dengae and others where there have been locally transmitted cases that have been well controlled. but because there's a case of someone who comes back to the united states and you hear a report of someone who came back that has zika, that doesn't mean that zika is locally transmitted in the united states and that needs to be clarified for people. >> okay. so hawaii okay. u.s. virgin islands not okay if you're a pregnant woman. that's the bottom line when it
comes to u.s. territories. >> what you need to do is look at the list of countries on the cdc website in which they say should not be traveled. >> got it. thank you for clearing that up. coming up next, he's from flint, michigan. filmmaker michael moore says the poisoned water is more than just a local and government failure it's also about racism. he joins me next. plus he's the brain behind anchorman and talladega nights. now he's being called the most powerful political filmmaker. the oscar nominated director of "the big short" will join me ahead.
water crisis. he noted how angry many people are at him. those experts included two of the individuals who helped bring the crisis to light. but governor snyder didn't say the two words many critics want to hear, namely "i resign." now a federal lawsuit has been filed urging the city and the state to replace all the lead pipes at no cost to local residents and to improve water quality in flint. let's talk about this with michael moore who's out with a new film called "where to invade next." michael, thank you for joining us. appreciate it. i want to talk about the documentary in a second but first i have to ask you about flint. just a few minutes ago poppy harlow sat down with michigan governor rick snyder. let's play a clip and then i'll get your response. >> we are complying with every investigation in terms of being open. we'll follow the appropriate legal processes for subpoenas and other legal matters. with respect to releasing my e-mails. this is an stroorextraordinary .
this is not a normal case. the reason i did '14 and '15, the press in particular, everybody wanted to know when did i find something out. so i released the relevant e-mails that address that issue for the relevant time period. >> some of them were redacted and i'm wondering if you'll release all of them having to do with flint water back to 2011. have you made that decision yet? >> again, i released the ones that were most relevant. when you say redacted, there were a couple that got redacted in terms of they were legal matters that didn't relate directly to water at all in flint. >> so just so i'm clear, it hasn't been decided yet if you'll release them back to 2011? >> no. i'm confident we did '14 and '15. we answered the question that was asked and now we're complying with all the lawsuits and investigations fully. >> you've been very critical of governor snyder. what's your response to that? >> obviously he's trying to be well coached by the new york crisis management pr firm that he's hired. these e-mails, as poppy said,
have been redacted. that means lots of things blacked out. this is not a national security issue. i think we can read the e-mails. he's only released them for a short period of time, not the entire time since 2011 when he appointed the emergency manager for flint. so this is really not the right -- he is covering up -- the people of flint know this. the fact that he hasn't replaced a single lead pipe, not a single lead pipe since this came to light. he's known about this since last february. why wouldn't you know that there's a possibility that there's lead in the water? would you allow the people to keep drinking the water? this causes permanent brain damage. that brain damage is irreversible. there's nothing to help the children that have had their brains permanently damaged by a decision or nondecision that he made. he's known about this for some time. he's trying to pr this thing right now. he's trying to blame civil servants for causing this. this is squarely in his lap. he removed the mayor of flint.
he appointed a crony to run flint. and then that crony said, you know we can save $15 million by having these people drink from the flint river. he goes, wow, that's great. let's do it. and now because they didn't test it, because they didn't put the right chemicals in it to treat it, now it's possibly a $1.5 billion repair. >> let me ask you, you wrote in "time" magazine, quote, let me not mince words, this is a racial crime. if it were happening in another country, we'd call it ethnic cleansing. explain what you mean. >> flint is a very black city. this is a poor city. >> they weren't trying to hurt them in terms of ethnic cleansing. >> i don't believe there was a conference where they said what should we do, let's poison flint. what they did do is made a decision, just like the car companies and lots of people where what's going to cost us more, putting a $7 part in the car or the lawsuits we're going to get from the accidents it's going to cause. lawsuits will cost us less, so
they don't fix the car. how many times have we heard that story? same thing here. they made a decision a year ago to ignore this and to cover it up. and worse, jake, they doctored the evidence. there's actually -- we know this now from the documents. we can see where they have crossed off the actual number of lead that was in the water, changed the number before they sent it off to the federal government. this is a cover-up, it's fraud. it's a version of manslaughter now because we have ten people that have died from legionnaire's disease. 87 cases. the doctors now are saying, yes, it's connected to this flint river water. i mean it's just -- they could have done -- they could have fixed this at any point in time. once they saw they made the mistake, i think like a lot of politicians they figured these people are poor, they didn't vote for us, they don't have any political power, and so, you know, we'll see what we can do. because his first statements when this first got revealed, he said well, you know, lead is seasonal.
that was one of his first lines. nobody knew what thatment. well, you get lead from paint and this or that. he tried to cover it up, change the subject. again, here we are sitting still talking about this. flint doesn't need bottled water sent to it. we need those pipes replaced. not a single pipe har replaced since they discovered lead in the water. >> i do want to talk about your film because i know you put so much of your heart and soul in that. where to invade next. you go to different countries and you see what they have, ideas to bring back, like healthy gourmet lunches in france or vacation time in it issy, eight weeks of it paid so workers are healthier and productive. why don't we do those things here? >> that's a good question. we are still the richest country on earth. we have the ability to have paid maternity leave. we still have 29 million people that aren't covered by universal health care. we could do these things if we wanted to do them. why don't we do them? >> why?
i'm asking. >> i think -- >> solve our problems right now, please. >> i can do that. do we have 30 seconds? in these other countries, they operate with a concept of we. we operate with a concept of me. jake, you got your problems, i've got my problems. i'll take care of mine, you take care of yours. that is in our american mentality. we've got to have more of, hey, it does matter what's happening to the people down the street or in a poor city or the people in flingt. if they're hurt, we're hurt. that's the way we should be enacting public policy. that's what they do in these other countries. let's not have cruel punishment in prisons, let's actually have rehabilitation. that's why in a country like norway, 20% recidivism rate. here within five years after getting out of prison, 80% are back in the criminal justice system. >> michael moore, thank you so much. best of luck with the film and best of luck more importantly for flint.
>> thank you for bringing up flint. appreciate your coverage of it. >> catch the interview with rick snyder tonight on "ac 360." coming up, he's kinds of a big deal. from "anchorman" to the haulllsf capitol hill, why the director of "the big short" is paying a visit to the capitol this week. pitch you investment opportunities. i've got a fantastic deal for you- gold! with the right pool of investors, there's a lot of money to be made. but first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions. you're not even registered; i'm done with you! i can...i can... savvy investors check their financial pro's background by visiting smartcheck.gov on location with the famous, big idaho potato truck. our truck? it's touring across america telling people about idaho potatoes.
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welcome back to "the lead." now our pop culture lead. he's best known as the brain behind comedy hits such as "anchorman." >> i don't know how to put this, but i'm kind of a big deal. >> but adam mckay's latest project takes a more serious turn. he takes on wall street corruption with an a-list cast in the new film "the big short." he's now being called america's most powerful political
filmmaker. america's most powerful political filmmaker, boy, that escalated quickly. adam mckay joined me to talk about the deadly serious message of his very engaging new film. first of all, congratulations. "the big short" is being called the film to beat this year. five academy award nominations, including best director and best picture. >> well, thank you very much. yeah, we are quite excited. >> of course your background is mostly in comedy, some of the all-time greats. "anchorman," "talladega nights" "funny or die." the topic of the financial crisis not a funny topic, but you brought humor into it. why was that important? >> you know, i read this book and i just couldn't put it down. like all tragedies, in the beginning part the characters don't know they're a part of a tragedy so there's actually funny parts, there's ironic parts, and, you know, it's true life. and true life doesn't always fit into a genre.
>> "the washington post" called you america's most powerful political filmmaker. how are you hoping to use this political spotlight? >> you know, i think the message of this movie is quite simple, which is that i want people not to be intimidated by the subject. every person in this country has a right to question the banks. and more importantly, question our government. >> as somebody who obviously watches the political machinations very closely, what are you hearing about the financial crisis of 2007-2008 or what are you not hearing? >> well, that was part of the reason we made the movie was we felt like the discussion had kind of gone quiet. you know, there was some fines paid by the banks, yet no one went to jail. you know, capital requirements are still really low in these banks. we just thought like where's the discussion. it seems to have woken up a little bit. we're hearing about it in the democratic debates but the republicans are shockingly quiet about it. >> in fact during the last republican debate, one of the
moderators referred to the financial crisis as if it had started under president obama. >> i love how they do that, by the way. there is -- i think there was some poll that showed a disproportionate amount of americans thought that obama had actually done the bailout, when of course it was george w. bush. but i won't let obama off the hook. he did not prosecute bankers, and that was not cool either. but it just shows the amount of misinformation that's out there about what happened in 2007-2008. >> what do you think could have prevented the financial crisis? >> i think if we had had an aggressive clearinghouse right from the beginning for these derivatives, higher capital requirements, i also personally thank glass-stegall being repealed was a big mistake under the clinton administration. i think it increased all the volatility of the banking system that was working for decades. we got rid of all the regulations and, boom, there's been several collapses. >> it must have been tough for you as a filmmaker to look at this and not think, boy, the fix is in because no matter what
these guys on wall street do, the politicians in d.c., whether democrats or republican, are going to protect them. >> yeah. really the message that we've kind of distilled to is if you see your representative taking money from banks, oil companies or weirdo billionaires, don't vote for him. and there's no way these companies are paying out billions of dollars or, you know, in the case of the presidential election literally billions of dollars to these people unless they expect something in return. so i actually think it's quite easy. we've just got to get over this right wing/left wing thing and just start targeting people that take money and we don't vote for them. >> maybe your film will be the start of that revolution. adam mckay, thank you so much. appreciate your time, and best of luck. >> thanks so much, jake. thanks for having me. finally from us today, a lot of ugly things came out of the u.s. war in afghanistan, but moments of beauty and al truism came as well. readers of my book about afghanistan outpost, about the men and women who served at
outpost keating might represent the name dave. last night dave and his wife, megan, welcomed camden alexander. he is named after the town that dave sacrificed so much to try to help. thanks so much, i'm jake tapper. turning you over to wolf blitzer in "the situation room." >> happening now, outfoxed. donald trump says he won't attend tomorrow's republican presidential debate on fox and intends to hold his own event. the war of words between the billionaire and conservative news network is growing hotter than ever. will it be a game-changer, though, in iowa? >> debatable, just as donald trump those republican debate plans for a loop, there's potential chaos on the democratic side. will hillary clinton or bernie sanders defy their party's leaders and show up for an unsanctioned debate in new hampshire? the party doesn't want them there. will the candidates