>> meanwhile, trump's rivals accused him of being afraid to answer tough questions and they're hoping to seize on his absence tonight. just four days until the iowa caucuses and this race continues to heat up. let's begin our coverage with phil mattingly. he's live in des moines, iowa. good morning, phil. >> reporter: good morning, allison. he's not bluffing. the tickets are available. it's not going to be taking place behind me. donald trump's feud with fox definitely escalating over the last 24 hours and now he's going to be missing the debate that will be taking place right behind me in just a few hours. puts a lot of things in flux right now and is frustrating a lot of campaigns. donald trump only hours away from hosting his "special event to raise money for veterans at drake university in des moines. the televised affair airing the same time as fox's trumpless primetime debate. >> what we have going, it's really important, it's a movement. it's not like a normal situation. >> reporter: but the gop
frontrunner's decision to stick it to fox is not without irony. >> i was not treated well by fox. >> reporter: trump appear on the network last night, fox news anchor bill o'reilly failing to coax him back to the stage. >> just want you to consider it. you owe me milkshakes. i'll take them off the ledger if you consider it. >> i told you up front, i said don't ask me that question. >> i'm not going to listen to anybody. i'm not going to listen to any political person telling me not don't ask me anything. >> o'reilly repeatedly asking trump. >> a lot of milkshakes. >> if you don't want to, it's up to you. >> in trump's absence, texas senator ted cruz is likely to be pushed to center stage. now cruz is doubling down on his challenge for a one-on-one debate with his biggest rival. >> i'm going to propose a venue, western iowa tech, saturday night in sioux city. we already have it reserved. >> cruz's super pac offering $1.5 million to vets groups if
trump agrees. and carly fiorina upping the ante, offering $2 million to debate trump at drake. the media spectacle rubbing the rest of the gop pack the wrong way. >> i don't think he'll be missed. i really don't think donald trump is a conservative. >> 90% of their coverage is on this whole thing. this is not a show. this is serious. >> marco rubio really expressing the frustration there that i've been hearing talking to campaigns, both behind closed doors and publicly over the last 24 hours, guys. the key to watch over these next couple days, ted cruz throwing down the gauntlet, trying to get a one-on-one challenge debate. his team is very cognizant of the fact donald trump is sucking all of the oxygen out of the room at the key moment when he needs to be reaching iowa voters. what he does tonight during that debate might be the most interesting and possibly most important aspect of these next four days in iowa, guys. >> okay, phil, thanks so much for all of that background. here now to discuss, editorial
director for the national journal ron brownstein. political anchor at time warner cable news errol lewis. and mave restin. let's start by talking about ted cruz talking about donald trump. and ted cruz is trying to really sort of turn this to his advantage. he's upping the ante in terms of his rhetoric. he's also -- his mega donors are offering $1.5 million to the charity of donald trump's choosing, if he will debate ted cruz mano a mano. so here is ted cruz asking, cajoling donald trump. listen to this. >> and imagine someone called you and said i'd like that job. but i ain't showing up for the interview. what would you say? you're fired. >> he's taking a page from the trump playbook. who do you think this is working for? >> it's working for everybody,
frankly. this is the nature of a media stunt. the people who pull off the stunt and the people who try to get into the stunt, it works for everybody in part because we're talking about it. for donald trump, it's classic frontrunner strategy to want to freeze things. he thinks he's doing well. he thinks he's got the momentum. he thinks he can win iowa. there's absolutely nothing to be gained by going in with a target on his back and having every other candidate on the stage and maybe one or two of the moderators taking shots at him, so he walks away. for ted cruz, this is a chance to say this was always and only between me and donald trump. let's get the rest of these people out of the way and let this be something that helps me and he thinks that works for his strategy. he's got a lot of organization on the ground. he thinks he can win in iowa. so this is pure politics. this is in some ways nothing to do with we want robust, open debate. i think it works in some ways for both campaigns. >> this is also a big reflection of who donald trump is at his core and how he deals with stimulus, let's say.
so here he is with o'reilly explaining once they got into it. so this was a whole beg session to go to the debate tonight. it was kind of couched as an argument, but it wasn't. why don't you go? please go. here's trump's rationale for why he won't. listen. >> i think you should be the bigger man. and say you know what? i didn't like it, and you should make that case all day long. but i'm not going to take any action against it. don't you think that's the right thing to do? >> it probably is, but, you know, it's called an eye for an eye i guess also. you can look at it that way. >> that's old testament. >> bill -- >> no, no, no. if you're the christian, the eye for the eye rule goes out. here's what it is. turning the other cheek. >> you're taking this much more seriously than i am. i'm not taking it seriously. i'm going to have a wonderful time tomorrow night at 9:00 at drake university. >> but you're depriving the people of seeing you -- >> no, i'm not. >> in a forum they need to see you in. come on, it's about the country.
>> the press will be there. >> i just like that. i don't think we have to discuss it anyway. so, ron, when you hear bill o'reilly say turn the other cheek, something that he's known so well for, what do you think about this dynamic of what donald trump is doing and why he's doing it and how that will impact voters? >> a couple thoughts. first, as errol said, there are lots of frontrunners who don't like a debate when they think they're ahead. at some level, behind all the extra ingredients, that's what we're looking at. the second thing is donald trump's temperament is the two-edged sword. the belligerence, the brusqueness does attract voters. they want someone who will fight in a way that we haven't seen. on the other hand, there are lots of voters -- i was at the ted cruz rally in west des moines, they question his temperament. they like hearing him say these things. they wonder whether it would apply as president.
the third point, though, i think the most important one is we are here talking about process. donald trump has essentially been able to dominate the debate in this race from the beginning through personal attacks and process stories, i think. and, you know, he's been able to kind of tamp down the discussion of many of the issues that may be problematic for him in a republican primary. like, for example, a group of anti-abortion leaders coming out yesterday in iowa saying vote for anyone but trump. we're not talking about that today. we're talking about process and he is at the center of this discussion again. >> to a certain extent, i think how it plays depends on how he performs oher the next 24 hours in his appearances today, in the media, in the event tonight. it depends if he portrays himself as the big dog or the weak puppy. you saw some of that with o'reilly last night where he says, i'm doing this from a position of strength. i'm doing this because i know how to neesht agotiate and behaa deal. let's play that. >> i don't like being taken
advantage of. in this case, i was being taken advantage of by fox. i don't like that. now, when i'm representing the country, if i win, if i'm representing the country as president, i won't let our country -- because that's a personality trait. i'm not going to let our country be taken advantage of. so it is a personality trait. but i don't think it's really a bad personality trait. >> that's what he's got to sell over the next 24 hours. >> absolutely. what i heard yesterday all over iowa, this is all that anybody was talking about. paying attention to that deal-making aspect of donald trump, and whether or not this was a good move or a bad move and how it would turn out for him. i think, though, that he is operating from the position of strength. a lot of people are going to tune into his event to see what he says about the other guys on the stage. and i think that it gives the other candidates a little bit of breathing room on the stage tonight. obviously ted cruz has really taken advantage of this opportunity that donald trump has given him. but in the long run, i'm really not sure that it's going to
matter that much to iowa voters. donald trump has been, you know, in their living rooms for years. they like watching the spectacle, but the people who are for him are sticking with him at this point, and those who were not for him to begin with are the ones who were taking issue from the fact that he's withdrawn from the debate. >> donald trump says if he's going to hold a competing event tonight for this. and interestingly, one of the organizations, the veterans organization tweeted this out. they say if offered, iraq and afghanistan veterans of america will decline donations from trump's event. we need strong policies from candidates, not to be used for political stunts. that's fascinating. you would think any money is good money. trump money is as green as anybody else's money. and they're saying we don't want to be a pawn. >> the tweet from paul rieckhoff. i interviewed him a few time. a very principled guy. really has his heart in that kind of work. and doesn't want to be used. because they have been used. they're not just props to stand in the background and camouflage
while some politician tries to advance themselves. and that's clearly what's going on here. i mean, as bill o'reilly pointed out to donald trump multiple times, it's like you can raise money any night of the week for veterans if you really want to. trying to do it as a way to counterprogram a debate that you didn't want to participate in starts to really sully a lot of the underlying issues that are involved. and there again, as ron points out, you know, you've got somebody who's trying to distract from issues constantly, and at least some of the people, this particular veterans group is not going to play along. >> all right, guys, panel, thank you very much. stick around. we have a lot more to talk about. coming up in our 8:00 hour, we will talk to republican candidate senator rand paul who is back on the main debate stage tonight and who says the iq level of the debate has just gone up. as for the democrats, they have their own debate problems. democratic candidates in the dnc are sparring over plans to add an unsanctioned debate in new hampshire just days before the primary there. this race continues to tighten between hillary clinton and
bernie sanders, so how is this debate over debate going to play out? jeff zellany in des moines with more. >> reporter: good morning, john. if you're wondering when the last democratic debate was here in iowa, you might have to check your calendar. it was in november. the whole controversy now on the democratic side. hillary clinton for months was not wanting more debates. suddenly she is interested in debating more. she said she would do another debate next week in new hampshire. why is that? because this race has gotten so tight. we saw bernie sanders meeting at the white house with president obama for 45 minutes. then he was in mason city, iowa, last night and he noted that one of his rivals, hillary clinton, was absent. >> my opponent is not in iowa tonight. she is raising money from a philadelphia investment firm.
[ boos ] frankly, i would rather be here with you. >> reporter: so, of course, that is a central message of bernie sanders' campaign in the final days here, that he is raising money individually from some 2.5 million contributors. hillary clinton is raising money the old fashioned way. but she was in iowa campaigning yesterday. you can see this video of her at a bowling alley, trying to work over every iowa voter, every supporter here. bill clinton, one of her top surrogates, was just down the road from bernie sanders in mason city. so the issue on the debates here is this. he says -- senator sanders says he will do another debate next week in new hampshire if the clinton campaign agrees to a debate in march, april, and may. so what this is boiling down to is the sanders campaign hopes this fight lasts months and months and months. the clinton campaign was hoping to wrap it up early. we'll see how those iowa results go next week.
that will be the entire ball game to see how long this democratic campaign is going to go on. chris? >> jeff zeleny, thank you very much. we are just four days from the iowa caucuses. we're going to take "new day" on the road for the big event. we're going to be live on monday from mars cafe in des moines. >> out of this world. >> that's the kind of cheek you can look forward to. and you can see it in person. if you're in the area, come on and stop by. you have seen nothing until you have watched camerota take down a flap jack in a single bite. >> a stack of them, number one. what else would you be doing at 5:00 a.m. in des moines? >> come early. if you want to wake up at 3:00, come see me. >> berman is no joke around the breakfast table as well. >> hard boiled eggs. you'll see why they call them hard boiled. breaking overnight, three members of the militia group occupying a federal wildlife refuge in oregon arrested. we're told the men turned
themselves into the fbi. eamon bundy is now urging the small band of protesters holed up in the refuge to go home. he was arrested tuesday during a traffic spot. the group's spokesman was shot and killed during the same stop. growing global concern over the zika virus. two american scientists say it has "explosive pandemic potential" and calling on the world health organization to convene an emergency meeting. the mosquito-born virus spreading the two dozen countries with brazil hit hardest. the scientists estimate it could be a decade before a vaccine is available to the public. president obama weighing in on the controversy surrounding the oscars. he made the push, or talked about the push to make the motion picture academy and its nominees more diverse. take a listen. >> when everybody's story is told, then that makes for better art. it makes for better entertainment. it makes everybody feel part of one american family. as a whole, the industry should
do what every other industry should do, which is to look for talent and provid opportunity to everybody. and i think the oscar debate is really just an expression of this broader issue, of are we making sure that everybody is getting a fair shot. >> the specific criticism here is that the academy for the second straight year will have all white acting nominees in the major categories. the group's president says they are taking democratic steps to alter the makeup of their membership. all right, we are just four days now from the iowa caucuses. the race on both sides very tight. so which candidate -- which of these people up on the screen right now has the most to lose? is it susan sarandon? we'll discuss on our panel next. they speak louder. we like that. not just because we're doers.
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street journal" poll. the race tightening for the republicans. hillary clinton and bernie sanders are locked in a virtual tie in iowa. the candidates aggressively trying to convince iowa voters that they have the best vision. crisscrossing the state, leading up to monday's caucuses. let's discuss who is making any gains and what is the state of play. again, ron brownstein, errol lewis, mave restin. thank you for being in the cold. i'll start with you because you're freezing, ron brownstein. we don't do well in the cold, us ethnics. the state of play, clinton's campaign has been talking more and more about negative attacks coming from bernie sanders. do you see the there there? >> i mean, look, he is pushing the edge in terms of the way he's talking about her. the larger point is you have the same dynamic under way in both parties at this point. the polls aren't so much predicting an answer as framing
the right question. donald trump and bernie sanders both do better among voters who have been less likely to participate historically. and the larger the turnout, the bigger the universe of voters, the better the night they will have. you look at the quinnipiac poll that had bernie sanders ahead in iowa among the democrats yesterday. hillary clinton was up 17 points, 16 points among people who have voted in the caucuses before. he was up 46 points among first time voters. the disparity isn't quite as extreme on the republican side, but it's the same pattern. the bigger the turnout, and by the way, it will tell us a lot about what's coming down the road. because if donald trump can turn out his voters to the caucus, which is a tough, complex process, they're going to show up in the primaries and republicans are going to be looking at a very different electorate, possibly. >> hey, let's talk about the democratic debate. debates on that side of the aisle. there are no debates scheduled right now before new hampshire primary. however, something has happened where now bernie sanders and hillary clinton are fighting with each other.
no, i want more debates. i want a debate, but you say you don't. what's going on here? >> i think you summed it up pretty good right there. >> well, i mean, clearly this is such a tight race. just being out there talking last night to people who had come out to see bill clinton in mason city. people are nervous. the supporters are nervous. and they really want to see hillary clinton on that debate stage again. they think that, for example, in our town hall recently, that she really was able to hammer that experience point over and over again. and really raised questions about bernie sanders, the feasibility of his ideas. and they think that that is a good stage for her to be on. bernie sanders, of course, coming back and saying well, that he's certainly not afraid to debate hillary clinton and would do it many times again. so i do think that the democrats are enjoying this. and the democratic party has really hid in these debates in some ways from voters. saturday nights.
it's not been as many eyeball s as on the republican side. i think both have a shot in the race to show their strengths and it's a good venue for them. >> yeah, if the debate falls in the woods does it make a sound in the newspapers have a really interesting story. they're deciding whether or not to go negative on hillary clinton with ads. they bought all this ad time. they have two sets of ads. positive and negative. and they can't decide which to use. i mean, clearly they're leaking the story. they're floating it. what are they doing here? >> that's a way of sort of fertilizing the ground a little bit and getting us used to the idea that some negative attacks are going to come out. this is something that bernie sanders has said he wouldn't do. he personally doesn't seem to want to do that sort of a thing. but when you've got somebody who in effect is the incumbent, and that very much who hillary clinton is in the democratic party, you have to make a case that she has to get fired, and there's no way to do that that doesn't get into she did this. she voted that way. she's not right.
she's not ready. you've got to say it. >> there's more of a risk for him than most candidates, because part of his brand this whole time is i'm not going to get mean. >> this is true. but he never said he wasn't going to get mean, he said he wouldn't get personal. there's contrasting your record. so, for example, votes that she helped support during her husband's administration. when she went out and argued for the crime control act in 1994. well, she did that. it happened. there's videotape of it. do you want to show that videotape and ask a couple of questions so that people who may maybe weren't old enough to vote back then will have something to think about as they go into the voting booth? bernie sanders would do well to raise those issues if he wants to win. and in order to win, you've got to tell people, look, you don't know hillary clinton like i know hillary clinton. let's look at some videotape. is that negative? well, all's fair. >> i was going to say, look, in the democratic race, it really is coming down to a single issue. which is this question of how do you achieve change in this era
of divided government? bernie sanders is talking about fundamentally transforming politics with his bottom up uprising. hillary clinton is saying look, i can work within the system and get more done. what he's proposing is unrealistic. and you see the audience for that dividing along the clear demographic line as well. >> ron, here's part of the audience for what they're talk about right now and that's nancy pelosi. here's what she just said about whose plan has a chance. >> exactly. >> well, he's talking about a single payer and that's not going to happen. does anybody in this room think that we're going to be discussing a single payer? we have i think a very realistic plan that is out there. can it be improved upon? everything can. it's no use having a conversation about something that's not going to happen. >> i may be wrong here, but i keep hearing the words "not going to happen" in relation to what bernie sanders is proposing. what does that tell you in terms
of the state of play on the democrats side? >> that it's very, very tight. that was really quite a cutting line of argument that pelosi was using against sanders without making it sound like an attack. last night, bill clinton also hammering home that argument over and over again. that hillary clinton is the only proven change maker on hostile territory, using that word again and again, and i think that that is what her allies hope in these coming days, to really get voters to think about the feasibility of bernie sanders' plans and to start thinking about the long-term, and what he would look like up against donald trump in a general election. >> mave, ron, errol. thank you. great to talk to you guys. a potential blow to peace talks in syria. a key u.s. ally could be kept on the sidelines. reporting from the front lines in the fight against isis in syria, next.
sharp divisions jeopardizing talks in syria before they even begin. the syrian kurdish force known as the ypg furious that they will likely be excluded from the process. cnn's senior international correspondent clarissa ward is on the front lines in syria. >> reporter: there are scenes of utter devastation like this across northern syria, where the syrian democratic forces made up largely of kurdish fighters have been battling against isis. thousands of them have been killed in the process, but a lot of territory has been taken back. and it's precisely because of the blood that has been spilled and the ground that has been retaken from isis that the kurds feel so angry that they don't have a seat at the negotiating table in geneva. they see these talks as prioritizing regional interests over the future of syria. they say that only the regime of bashar al assad and the sunni
opposition groups that are fighting assad are really represented at the talks and that minorities like the kurds and the christians have essentially being ignored. one commander told us that he feels particularly disappointed with the u.s., a key ally of the kurds in the battle against isis for not trying to support kurds in this political process. and he warned that the absence of the kurds at the negotiating table in geneva could threaten the entire military effort with the coalition to defeat isis. clarissa ward, cnn, syria. >> thanks to clarissa for that. michigan governor rick snyder standing his ground. he says he will not resign over his handling over the water contamination crisis in flint. the governor speaks exclusively to cnn, next. ♪ but i can't come home right now... ♪ ♪ me and the boys are playing.♪.
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poisoning because of government decisions. cnn's poppy harlow spoke exclusively with governor snyder. she joins us now. good morning, poppy. >> reporter: good morning to you, john. governor snyder has called this a terrible tragedy. he has apologized to the people of flint. he has vowed to do everything he can to help them. but for many of the people that i spoke with here, it is simply too late. just yesterday the governor sat down behind me with 17 doctors and other experts to get their recommendations on what can possibly be done at this point for the people of flint who have, frankly, been through the unthinkable. can the people of flint today as we sit here, can they drink the water? >> no. we don't want them to. and that's the terrible tragedy of all of this. >> reporter: this morning, as the people of flint wait and wonder if they have been poisoned by the lead in their water, michigan governor rick snyder admits he failed them and
promises to fix the crisis. all medical experts agree no level of lead ingestion by anyone, especially children under the age of 6, is okay. >> that's correct. >> reporter: you said last week over 100 children here in flint have high levels of lead in their blood. how many kids is it as we sit here today? >> it's about 100-some, if you go back over the last couple of years. >> you're saying there's 100 children as of now, there could be many more. >> there could be many more and we're assuming that. >> reporter: a local pediatrician one of the first to discover the lead in the water here, calls the impact on the children irreversible and multi-generational. the doctor told me that what can be done is that you can minimize the impact through early literature programs, universal preschool, access to healthy foods, so the calcium binds instead of the lead to the children's bones, etc. mental health services. she put a price tag on that. she told me it's going to cost $100 million just to do that.
will you make sure they get $100 million? >> i'm not sure she would know how to put the price tag. i have reviewed recommendations she's made. and actually, a number of those actions -- we were already working on doing in flint. >> she's done the analysis. i'm asking you again. $100 million. will you make sure they get that if that's what they need? >> well, we're making sure they get what they need. >> reporter: a 2011 study found water from the flint river would have to be treated with an anti-corrosive agent to be safe to drink. to do that would have only cost $100 a day. but that was never done. i was speaking with a young man this morning, and he said to me, they put money over people. and he said, the black lives and the poor white lives weren't worth it. when you look at the numbers, $100 a day. what happened? >> well, that's the failure. in terms of cost structures, $100 a day, this is where the huge error was. there were people that were
subject matter experts in this that didn't believe that needed to be done. that was a huge mistake. that was part of the fundamental mistake of this whole situation. >> reporter: that money was -- >> no, not on that point. >> reporter: priority here over people? >> not at all. this is where the investigations will follow up. we're cooperating with all those investigations. because i want to find out what went on. i want the facts out there. >> the kids were being poisoned by the water they were drinking here. the epa knew about it. your former spokesman knew about it in july 2015 and sent an e-mail about it. and you didn't declare a state of emergency until january of this year. why did it take so long? >> actually, i learned about it in october, and i took action immediately then, offering filters, working on people on doing water testing. again, we needed to do more, though. so as soon as i learned about it, we took dramatic action. >> why not just immediately replace all of the lead pipes? >> that's a question you can ask
across the country. and the challenge of that -- >> >> reporter: but i'm asking you. because flint has had people poisoned. >> that is not a short-term project. in terms of ripping up all the infrastructure, replacing all of that. that can take an extended period of time. >> your former spokesman wrote an e-mail back in july of 2015. here's part of it. i'm frustrated by the water issue in flint. these folks are scared and worried about health impacts and they're basically getting blown off by us. you have said since then that you knew about that e-mail. and that you were made aware of that. why not act then? >> the experts came back from both department of environmental quality and health and human services to say they didn't see a problem with lead in the water or lead in the blood -- >> folks here did. they were getting rashes. their kids were having rashes. >> if you could let me finish, poppy. i mean, that makes you feel
terrible. i wish we would have done something different. >> reporter: as the scope of the crisis has grown, residents have rallied demanding the governor step down. a number of the residents i've spoken with in flint have said ultimately they want accountability. governor, will you resign? >> no. i think it's normal, the right action is if you have a problem that happened from people that you're responsible for, you go solve it. you don't walk away from it. >> really interesting discussion, poppy. you pressed the governor on a price tag. how much is michigan going to put up here? i mean, there's $28 million being discussed in the legislature now. is it going to take more than that? >> reporter: i believe they will. he would not put a number on it. you heard him tell me we will get them what they need. he's meeting with that doctor who put the $100 millio price tag on it. but to put this in perspective, that's just $100 million to help the kids with those services they need to counter the lead poisoning effects, which are
irreversible. you need 50 to 75 million, according to the epa, to replace all those lead pipes. the interim millions for all the bottled water, etc. i think we're looking at hundreds of millions of dollars here. only 28 million has been approved so far. he did say that we're going to get this done. >> you've been talking to the people. who are they saying in flint? >> reporter: many of them that i spoke with said look, the governor needs to resign. one man that i spoke with who is a professor here, middle class white man said to me flint has always been marginalized. this would never have happened down the road in gross point, one of those white affluent communities. an african-american man told me that he felt as though they put money over people. at the same time, right now the governor is focused on solutions. you heard him say he is not resigning, he is going to spend a lot more time here in flint. he is vowing to do everything they can to fix this, john. and right now, frankly, that's what the people here need.
>> it's what the people deserved and what the people are owed. poppy harlow in flint. thanks so much. so last night, no less than bill o'reilly made the case to donald trump to do the right thing and reconsider his decision to back out of tonight's republican debate. will the donald change his mind? they talk about the bible, next. i get all of my greens. and i try not to faint. this.. i can do easily. benefiber healthy shape. just a couple of spoonfuls every day means fewer cravings. plus, it's all natural, clear, taste-free and dissolves completely. it's clinically proven to keep me fuller longer and helps keep me healthy inside and out. benefiber healthy shape. this, i can do. find benefiber healthy shape in the fiber aisle. on location with the famous, big idaho potato truck. our truck? it's touring across america telling people about idaho potatoes.
it is time now for "cnn money now." chief business correspondent christine romans in the money center. christine, let's just get it straight. stocks today up or down? >> right now looks like they're going to be up. stock futures are up. yesterday, the fed said the u.s. economy slowed down at the end of last year and stocks got clobbered. down more than 200 points. widely held apple shares down another almost 7%. apple said its sales will fall this quarter. tough month for stocks. the s&p 500 is now down 8% this year already. one stock soaring this morning, though, facebook. it's up about 12% before the bell. it wowed investors with soaring sales, profit, user growth,
mobile ads growth. during the last three months of 2015, facebook tapped a billion-dollar profit for the first time ever. 1.6 billion, more than double a year earlier. that stock is going to pop. >> thanks so much for that, christine. donald trump still promises to boycott tonight's gop debate over his war with fox news. trump will instead host a veterans benefit in iowa at the very same time. trump's rivals hope to capitalize on his absence. they say he's afraid to answer hard questions. >> there is concern over increased activity at a north korean satellite launching system. they see fuel being moved in. u.s. officials are concerned about a possible ballistic missile launch. the site is so secretive, an underground railroad is used to deliver parts. today marks the 30th anniversary of the space shuttle challenger disaster. this morning, a wreath-laying ceremony will be held at
kennedy's national space center as well as arlington national cemetery in virginia. seven crew members perished after liftoff. i was in 8th grade. they wheeled in a tv to the classroom after watching the coverage with ronald reagan with a beautiful speech about the astronauts. slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of god. 30 years ago. >> i remember that so well, too. before 9/11, that was one of those similar shock to the systems, where you watched it l live and you thought, can this be happening? it was so disconcerting. i had a visceral reaction to watching that live and how tragic that was. >> it was also a big part of reagan's legacy, was making the case for continued space travel. and why it needed to be done. and that it wasn't just fanfare when you watch them go into the sky. it was real risk for real reasons and purpose. >> yeah. all right, back to what's happening in the next 24 hours.
donald trump's decision to back out of tonight's debate, only the latest feud with journalists. let's look at his love/hate relationship with the press. that's next. when heartburn hits fight back fast tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue and neutralizes stomach acid at the source tum, tum, tum, tum smoothies! only from tums ♪ ♪virgin islands nice ♪ ♪so nice ♪so nice, so nice ♪ spend a few days in the u.s. virgin islands
you've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should elect as president, and how will you answer the charge when hillary clinton, who is likely to be the democratic nominee, that you are part of the war on women? >> well, that was the moment that started this battle royale. megyn kelly questioning donald trump on his treatment of women during the first republican debate. trump standing by his decision to skip tonight's debate because fox refused to replace kelly as the moderator. let's look at some of trump's many feuds with journalists. brian steltzer is here. it started there, basically. but it has gone on since then. >> absolutely. august is really the beginning
of megyn kelly and his original victim, or person he argues with. he thinks that she is the one that is at fault here. but, of course, she's trying to do her job as a journalist. >> the next day, he was on don lemon's show and this is what he said about megyn kelly. let's listen. >>. >> she gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. and, you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. blood coming out of her wherever. >> now, this outraged fox. it outraged the fox news chairman. this has continued ever since. even this morning, trump retweeting people who are critical of megyn kelly, which i think is an important point here. there's a realtime feedback loop. trump hears from his fans that they don't like these journalists, so he keeps up these war. >> but it hasn't just been megyn kelly. >> this is the reminder of jorge ramos who tried to confront
stage. trump uses these scenes in order to make points about his campaign. here's jorge ramos, an immigrant confronting trump. what does he do? he boots him out of the room. then lets him come back to ask his question later. >> just incredible. bill o'reilly. >> now, of course, this is an interesting case because o'reilly has been a friend to trump over the years. they have been friends for decades. here's what trump said. he said, why don't you have some knowledgeable talking heads rather than the same old trump haters. boring. trump is always watching tv. always watching cable news and always giving feedback in realtime. >> we've had many experiences with him here at cnn. successful interviews, as well as those that he didn't like so much. here is him talking to chris about one of our fine reporters, sarah murray, who donald trump doesn't think talks enough about the big crowds that he's getting. >> unfortunately, you have me followed by sarah murray and she doesn't know what she's doing. >> listen, trump, you have to start insulting people who do
their job. >> the energy in the room. she stands there like there's 12 people in the room. i'm sure she'll defend herself in a very timid way. >> she's doing a good job. >> no, she's not. she's not reporting accurately. >> i mean, this is the first time the politicians call out people by name and they say -- i don't know if it's the first time. but he does it more than any other politician. >> well, politicians, they have their own rivals. they have their own political rivals. what trump has are journalists as rivals. he uses journalists as foils to make points about his own campaign and his own strength. >> roger ales, no shrinking violet. he doesn't like how donald trump has been treating megyn kelly. >> this is a real remarkable quote, especially in light of what's happening this week. >> so he revealed to ad week the conversation that he's had in the past with donald trump, where he said to him, what the hell is wrong with you? the united states is at war with every country in the middle east and you're at war with megyn
kelly, and you think that looks good? it doesn't look good. >> that's the fox point of view right there in a nutshell. but to trump, this war with megyn kelly is a proxy for how he would handle the presidency, so he's basically using kelly as a foil. i also thought it was interesting to see how trump in his rallies -- actually, the he'll demand the camera to turn around. >> he talks to the cameramen. >> these cameras back here right now, they will never show this crowd. they'll never show this crowd. [ booing backs no, no. they're never going to show this crowd. look at the guy in the middle. look at the guy in the middle. why aren't you turning that camera? why aren't you turning the camera? >> i think trump brilliantly acts like a tv producer. in that case, he's a pull camera. the cameraman is required to keep the camera on trump at all times. >> he's on lockdown. and donald trump may or may not have known that. >> maybe trump knows that. but this has all lead up to tonight. this battle with fox is sort of
the grand finale. we're in the fourth quarter of trump's battles with the media. >> we'll see what happens. thanks so much for walking us through all of this. we're following a lot of news this morning, including how trump's decision to skip the debate will play out. let's get to all of that. >> i was not treated well by fox. they came out with this ridiculous p.r. statement. it was like drawn up by a child. >> donald is a tra jill sofragi. >> silliness, bombast, rhetoric. >> you owe me milkshakes. >> we've had six debates so far. every online poll said i won every one of the debates, especially the last one, by the way. >> this is not a show. this is serious. >> life's unfair. you've got to make tough decisions. you can't take your toys and go home. >> you know me. i want you to consider, all right? >> i don't like being taken advantage of. >> their very first sentence to me was, do you know jason rezaian? i said, of course. he said, he's never leaving and
neither are you. this is "new day" with chris cuomo, alisyn camerota, and michaela pereira. >> good morning, everyone. michaela is off. john berman joins us today. great to have you. donald trump digging in his heels, boycotting tonight's fox news debate. instead, he'll be hosting a veterans benefit in iowa at the exact same time. all of this over trump's dispute with fox news. >> trump's rivals essentially dismissing the donald, suggesting the move proves he's unfit to be commander in chief. seven republicans will be on the main stage tonight, hoping to seize on trump's decision and make a last-minute surge in iowa. remember, just four days to the caucuses. let's begin our coverage with phil mattingly. he's live in des moines. phil? >> reporter: well, chris, you got that right. four days until the caucuses. other campaigns right now scrambling. donald trump has essentially sucked all of the oxygen out of the room. that battle with fox only
intensifying. donald trump only hours away from hosting his "special event" to raise money for veterans at drake university in des moines. the televised affair airing the same time as fox's trumpless primetime debate. >> what we have going -- it's really important, it's a movement. it's not like a normal situation. >> reporter: but the gop frontrunner's decision to stick it to fox by dropping out is not without irony. >> i was not treated well by fox. >> reporter: trump appearing on the network last night. bill o'reilly failing to coax him back to the stage. >> just want you to consider it. you owe me milkshakes. i'll take them off the ledger if you consider it. >> i told you up front, i said don't ask me that question. because it's an embarrassing question for you. >> i'm not going to listen to political person telling me don't ask me anything. >> reporter: o'reilly repeatedly asking trump to attend the debate tonight. >> i'm asking you to reconsider it. if you don't want to, it's up to you. >> reporter: in trump's absence,
ted cruz, running number two in the polls, is likely to be pushed to center stage. now cruz is doubling down on his challenge for a one-on-one debate with his biggest rival. >> i'm going to propose a venue, western iowa tech, saturday night in sioux city. we already have it reserved. >> reporter: cruz's superpac offering $1.5 million to vets groups if trump agrees, and carly fiorina upping the ante, offering $2 million to debate trump at drake. the media spectacle, rubbing the rest of the gop pac the wrong way. >> i don't think he'll be missed. i really don't think donald trump is a conservative. >> 90% of their coverage is on this whole thing. this is not a show. this is serious. >> reporter: chris, all eyes tonight at this debate will likely be on ted cruz. his campaign obviously moving furiously over these final days to try and close what has been a growing gap in iowa between donald trump and ted cruz in the polls. obviously, cruz winning iowa or
coming very close to winning iowa is essential to his campaign going forward. but as they said last night at ted cruz's event over and over again, donald trump is that roadblock. expect the attacks to come fast and furious tonight. >> polls very tight. could be either man's race. that's for sure. donald trump active this morning on the twitter. talking about this. here's the latest offering. wow, two candidates called last night and said they want to go to my event tonight at drake university. i think they have a schedule conflict. we'll have to see how that plays out. republican pollster kelly ann conaway, she's with us, she runs a super pac that supports ted cruz. and mr. jeffrey lorde, cnn political commentator, also a supporter of donald trump. always good to see you both. so first things first. there's an offer from the cruz camp. let's do another debate. you and me. cruz and trump. and if you care about the veterans, let's marry the two things.
we can raise money there, too. any response? >> sure. senator cruz went and put the challenge to mr. trump, saying look, we're the two frontrunners. everybody calls this a two-man race. in december, it was a two-man race between cruz and rubio. now it's a two-man race between cruz and trump. so he's at least the common denominator in the races. he said let's do a veterans event, and last night, two of the families that fund the super pacs say that their family money, not super pac money, would put up about $1.5 million to all types of veterans organizations if mr. trump would debate senator cruz any time between now and saturday night. >> the point is you don't have to do these things separately, you can do them together. >> yeah, one hour. one-on-one. i think the voters deserve to hear these closing arguments from everyone. this whole idea that we've had six debates, everybody's heard enough. really, people are struggling. they want to hear philosophical differences, not just personal insults. >> there's a vanity interest in the media watching bill o'reilly
offer up this please, please debate rationale to donald trump last night. is there merit to the idea of shortchanging the voters, that they do deserve to see you do your best against your competitors this close to the caucus? >> well, i think that they've been saying this. i mean, we've had six debates already. but really what i think -- you know, the media landscape, i don't have to tell you guys, has changed. i mean, the very fact that donald trump or anyone else, for that matter, but donald trump is superb at this, communicating with twitter and getting around the mainstream media, is something i think a lot of people like. a lot of people out there are very, very frustrated with the media. if you notice in that confrontation between donald trump and megyn kelly in the original debate there that sort of launched this situation, after he gives his answer, the audience bursts into sort of wild cheering applause, which i think is indicative of the reception that the media gets from a lot of americans.
>> hold on a second, jeffrey. i hear where you're coming from. let's refocus this for one second. i don't think this is about us. this is about fox news and donald trump. this is about what's going on inside your party. if there are people in that room who were cheering, they weren't cheering because she represents the media. it's about these two very different ideas about what your party should be. isn't that a more fair assessment? >> no, no. they were cheering his answer deliberately because they feel that the media writ large, that includes just about everybody, including me, i suspect, are unfair to their candidates, to their party. this has been a long standing issue. >> that was their media, though. >> exactly why senator cruz is asking mr. trump to debate him one-on-one outside of the debate that mr. trump has boycotted. if his problem is really with the fox news statement and his problem is not debating, allowing voters the direct form of democracy that allows voters
to turn on their tv sets, turn on their computers and get access to these candidates and their vision for the country. so if the problem is with fox and megyn kelly, then come to this other one-on-one debate. >> you also have as many, if you look at the polls, 40-plus percent of the people still aren't sure what they're going to do. let me ask you something, though. so the good news is, trump's not there tonight, so ted cruz will have the stage to himself in terms of this two-man dynamic. the bad news is trump's not there tonight, and you have a lot of long swords that will be out trying to take the space that cruz occupies. how big a challenge is this going to be? >> it's a challenge because they'll gang up on cruz. he's the person who's most competitive on that stage tonight. obviously iowa has come down to the two of them. everybody else is in low single digits. maybe some of them will mention donald trump. maybe the moderators will start out an opening statement. please comment on what you think about mr. trump's decision to
not be here tonight. what's your message to the iowa voters? but i will say this. the upshot of all of this is the 1-2 punch of trump and cruz in this cycle has left the establishment flat on their backs and they're not recovering. they're hardly even part of the conversation. when you add up, even in the latest cnn poll, the establishment candidates, they're like 25%, 28%. it's really remarkable. >> now, where that changes, though, in iowa, i hear you on that. we're all looking at the same numbers. new hampshire, very different game. and a lot of people will be playing that game tonight. they know where they are pretty much in iowa. but jeffrey, you've got a lot of people who were right on top of cruz in new hampshire and that's going to become the next most important state. how much is at stake for these -- what kelly ann is calling the establishment candidates. i'm not crazy about that term. >> they're really not crazy about it. >> for christie, kasich, bush, new hampshire is a real situation for them, especially versus cruz. how big will that play tonight? >> yeah. it is a big deal for them.
ted cruz himself said the other day, i believe, that if donald trump won in iowa and won in new hampshire and south carolina, essentially he was saying that's the end of it. i think that the contest here is between donald trump and ted cruz. these other guys are competing, but they're just not getting any start here in some of these places. so i think it's very critical. if they don't do very well in new hampshire, they're not going to go very much longer. >> let's remember. this is proportionate delegation. we don't get to winner take all states until march 15th. so everyone who competes at some level will come out of iowa with delegates. it's not like you come out with zero. it's very different this time. by the florida contest in 2012, it really came down to romney and newt. it was winner take all. so rick santorum did the same thing. he left florida and went to some of these caucus states. this time, it's incumbent on these candidates to stay in the race in these states because you can walk out with some delegates
and still be competitive. when you get to march 15th, it's winner take all and somebody who start s scooping up these delegates, that person has an advantage. i think that's what the bush campaign is banking on. if he just stays in there at 3% nationwide, and his super pac spent $80 million to get him to 4%, that somehow when you get to winner take all states, he'll start vacuuming them up. but he's going to have to get past this juggernaut that the establishment has crucified conservative candidates like trump and cruz. you're not electable. you can't win. it's always been a deal breaker for them. that conversation is over. the people in the establishment are trying to prove they're electable. john kasich, the governor of ohio, he's a great man. he's a wonderful governor. he's not even competing in the heartland in iowa. he's competing in new hampshire. it tells you something about the ideological picture. >> as you look at it, jeffrey, you believe this was a good move for donald trump tonight, and
you think this will help make the case for him to be the leader of america? >> yeah, i do. i think it taps into the frustration a lot of republicans and conservatives have with the mainstream media. i really do think that. and it shows, once again, he's decisive. he's not afraid to act. he just doesn't talk. he does it. and i think a lot of people respond to this. >> i think it's very interesting that you're using fox news as a reflection of people's feelings about the mainstream media. i think that's very clever of you. >> you know, it's very interesting, chris, that rush limbaugh was saying this just yesterday, that when he travels around and talks to people, out in the hinder lands, there are a lot of conservatives that are not all that thrilled with fox news because they don't think it's conservative enough. they don't have those complaints about rush and talk radio, but they do have it about fox news. i find that this is an interesting situation. >> we all love the veterans, so if he can elevate that and some
money can be raised, including if he'll debate senator cruz one-on-one. >> but the appeal to mix the two makes sense. but to use it as an option -- that's why you have veteran groups like rieckhoff coming up saying don't use it that way. help us with your policies. don't use us as political pawns. >> they say that to mr. trump. >> yes. thank you very much. coming up in our 8:00 hour, we're going to talk to republican candidate senator rand paul. by the way, he's back on the main stage tonight. what does he think of this? stay with us. debate issues also front and center for the democrats. the candidates are at odds with the dnc over adding another debate in new hampshire before the primary. cnn's jeff zeleny is live in des moines, iowa, with details about this. hi, jeff. >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. there hasn't been a democratic debate in iowa since november. so it's been a long time since the voters here have seen the candidates on a formal debate stage. now the clinton campaign is saying they are willing to do a debate next week in new hampshire. the sanders campaign is saying not so fast.
they're willing to do that only if she agrees to a debate in march, april, and may. something that would, of course, stretch out this debate cycle and this campaign primary. yesterday, bernie sanders was at the white house visiting with president obama one-on-one in the oval office, talking about the campaign. but then he returned to iowa last night. and he tried to point out that hillary clinton was absent. >> my opponent is not in iowa tonight. she is raising money from a philadelphia investment firm. frankly, i would rather be here with you. >> reporter: bernie sanders, of course, trying to make a point that hillary clinton is raising money the old fashioned way. but hillary clinton, to be fair, was in the state of iowa yesterday earlier, campaigning at a bowling alley. she was doing that. and bill clinton was also campaigning in the state
yesterday. so the final push is on here. but the reason that the clinton campaign is interested in debating now again is because the race is so tight. it's neck and neck here in iowa. and in new hampshire, of course, senator sanders still has a fairly substantial lead here. going into this weekend, it is critical for all sides to mobilize their supporters, sanders and clinton here for the duration until the iowa caucuses finally begin on monday. allison? >> absolutely, jeff. okay. thanks so much. and we are just four days from the iowa caucuses, and we're taking "new day" on the road for this big event. we'll be live on monday from the mars cafe in des moines. if you're in the areaing please stop by. we'd love to have a cup of coffee with you. cnn will have live coverage of the iowa caucuses all day long on monday. the president will sign a presidential memorandum to create a white house task force on cancer. this is according to "the new york times." this is the first step in finding a cure for cancer, which the president mentioned in his last state of the union speech. vice president joe biden, who of course lost his son beau to
brain cancer, he will lead this panel. the group will meet for the first time next week. the investigation into the prison escape at orange county, california's largest lock-up, leading to the arrests of five people with more arrests likely. several of those in custody, alleged vietnamese gang members, two of three jail escapees allegedly have ties to this gang. the trio accused of murder, attempted murder, and torture. they are still on the run. investigators say they're sure the men had outside help. a midair mystery on a flight from london to los angeles. the american airlines plane forced to return to heathrow airport wednesday after six people onboard became ill. including a flight attendant who passed out. so far, investigators have found no evidence of what may have made them sick. paramedics checked out the patients after the plane landed. >> just what i want to hear. >> mystery illness. always good. with donald trump out of the picture, gop rivals are hoping to steal some of his thunder during tonight's debate. will it work? we'll speak with a strategist
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with gop frontrunner donald trump sitting out tonight's debate, the other candidates are hoping for a chance to break out. for jeb bush, it is a much needed opportunity. here to tell us how bush plans to take advantage of tonight is a senior strategist for jeb bush's campaign. good morning, david. >> good morning, alisyn. >> thanks so much for being here on "new day." jeb bush sent out a tweet about donald trump yesterday. let me try to read it for everyone. basically, what he's saying is -- well, i'll just summarize it. donald trump can't handle -- if he can't handle the fox news debate, what else will he not be able to handle, he's saying there. does jeb want donald trump to show up tonight or not? >> well, he's betting to bucks that he does show up. i think the people of iowa
deserve and expect them to make their case. there might be an opportunity for candidates who have more serious plans to actually talk about those plans and what they do for the country. it could go either way. who knows what he's going to do. >> so what is jeb's strategy tonight to break out of the pac? >> well, i think to actually talk about his plans for fixing the big problems the country faces. he would like to talk about his plan to create 19 million jobs. he was the first candidate to come out with a plan to actually defeat isis at the reagan library several months ago. i think it's an opportunity to really take this campaign to the next level where you're talking about more serious issues that people really want to focus on. and the people of iowa and new hampshire expect that. i think it's time to kind of put the silly season behind us and actually talk about the issues that people care about, and that's what governor bush intends to do tonight. it's what he intends to do for the caucuses and in the following weeks in new hampshire and south carolina in nevada. >> "the new york times" reported
this week that there are a group of senior gop leaders, elected officials and donors, who are sending a message o'jeb and to a couple of others to withdraw from this race if they don't break out of the pac soon. what's jeb's response to them? >> i think we need to let the voters decide. the voters in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, nevada, they'll decide who's going to be the nominee of the republican party, and then, of course, super tuesday, march 1st and march 15th. i think all the polling, you know, people can talk about it. gives the pundits something to do. but it's really the voters who are going to decide this. we're looking forward to the caucuses here on monday night and the new hampshire primary, where we spent a lot of time and focus on february 9th. so we're looking forward to having the voters decide. i think that's the right way to approach this. it's not going to be some insiders in washington who are going to decide this. it's going to be the voters. >> david, i know it's cold out
there because i see your eyes tearing and i know it's not because you feel emotionally about this issue. i appreciate you standing outside for us. but what is a satisfactory slot for jeb to come in in iowa or new hampshire? >> well, i think in iowa, it's traditionally a state where evangelical conservatives do better. you had senator santorum and governor huckabee perform well in 2008 and 2012. we need to be the serious governor who excels in iowa. and takes our message on to new hampshire. we're in second place and moving up. >> okay, so in other words, if jeb can finish third, that's the traditional -- there's three tickets out of iowa. if he can finish third, you move on. if you can finish second or third in new hampshire? >> well, i don't know if there's three tickets out of iowa. i think this is such a big field
in a different race. we're running in the governor's lane. someone with a record of accomplishment. i think we need to be the best governor coming out of iowa. we're moving up fast in new hampshire. and i think we'll have a very strong finish there i don't know if it's going to be first, second, third. i think the key thing here is to win our lane and to be the governor with a record of accomplishment who can take that message on through the rest of february and into the march primaries. >> david, on a personal note, i know that you've been forward about your battle with leukemia. and you wrote this incredibly poignant message to cancer, and i just want to read it for folks, a little bit of it. because you say, as for you, leukemia, here's my message to you. i'm not just going to beat you, i'm going to utterly humiliate you. you're going to be sorry. you'll never want to try me again. i promise. and when i'm bombing down the mountain at vail next year, i'll
let out a war whoop that you'll hear from your graves. gosh, that's an intense message. and i do think that it says something that you're still out on the campaign trail in the morning there in the cold. why are you doing this when you have this health battle? >> well, that's only one part of my life, and i take that battle seriously. in fact, the day after the new hampshire primary, i'll be headed back down to houston for another round of treatment. but this is an important thing for the country. my son joined the marines this last year, and i care about who's going to lead this country. who's going to be our commander in chief. i started with this campaign before it was a campaign, really last january. and i'd like to see this battle through as well. so i think we can handle both. i can't work as many hours as i would like to because of the treatment that i'm in, but it's worth it to me to put the time and effort that i can towards
this campaign in addition to the fight against leukemia, which by the way, i am going to win. >> we are pulling for you. thanks so much for sharing a piece of your personal story and talking about jeb today. great to have you on "new day." >> everyone on his side. >> thanks, alisyn. >> everyone on his side there, alisyn. thanks so much. an illinois police lieutenant killed himself in a scheme to avoid criminal charges. now it is his wife who could face time behind bars. why? find out next. prepare for challenges specific to your business by working with trusted advisors who help turn obstacles into opportunities. experience the power of being understood. rsm. audit, tax and consulting for the middle market. our cosmetics line was a hit.
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there's news breaking overnight, three militants occupying that oregon refuge arrested after turning themselves into the fbi. the group's leader urging the remaining protesters at the refuge to go home. bundy was arrested tuesday during a traffic stop. the group's spokesman was shot and killed by authorities during that same incident. a proposed settlement between the justice department and missouri calls for body cameras for every officer on the beat. it stems from a report that found racially biassed policing in ferguson in the wake of the
michael brown shooting. this must be approved by ferguson city council. the widow of that disgraced illinois police lieutenant who killed himself last year is now facing charges herself. she's accused of helping her husband steal money donated to his charity. it was an elaborate scheme which ended with the officer's suicide. pamela brown is live with more from the cnn center. pamela, what have you learned? >> this is a story that continues to take twists and turns. now we're learning melodie gliniewicz, who many remember as the grieving widow of lieutenant joe gliniewicz, who investigators believe staged his own death, has now been indicted by a grand jury in chicago for stealing charitable funds and using them for her own personal benefit. authorities allege she schemed with her now deceased husband to steal from the youth group that they ran, the explorers, a group of teens they were training to become law enforcement officers. and she allegedly used that donated money to pay for a trip for herself to hawaii. payments to businesses such as
starbucks, dunkin' donuts, fox lake theatre, and more than 400 restaurants. now, this was all discovered during the course of her husband's death investigation, where investigators noticed inconsistencies in the couple's bank records. they also discovered these deleted text messages between the couple, allegedly discussing using money for their own personal benefit. and a statement from her attorney saying melodie has suffered greatly the past few months and continues to move her family forward after the emotionally traumatizing events of september 1st, 2015. that is when her husband died. considering melodie's cooperation with law enforcement, she is devastated by the decision to bring charges against her. her bond was set at $50,000. and we should mention that our special on the secret life of g.i. joe will air this friday at 10:00 p.m. eastern time. chris? >> all right, pamela.
thank you very much. donald trump standing by his decision to skip tonight's republican debate, so far. despite fox news host bill o'reilly repeatedly asking the candidate to reconsider on a show last night. >> i don't think not showing up at the debate tomorrow night is good for america. you have in this debate format the upper hand. will you just consider -- i want you to consider, all right? think about it. just want you to consider it. you owe me milkshakes. i'll take them off the ledger if you consider it. >> he was very strong in his suggestion last night, o'reilly, that he wanted to do this. tough spot for bill to be in, being with fox news. one of the opponents in this situation. so let's discuss what this dynamic is about and how it's going to come out for both sides. cnn's senior media and politics reporter dylan buyers is here. and larry hacket. dylan, i'll give you the nod to go first. let's refresh memories here
about last night trump also stated what this is about with him on a personal level. why he feels this is the right thing for him. here's the sound. >> i don't like being taken advantage of. in this case, i was being taken advantage of by fox. i don't like that. if i win, if i'm representing the country as president, i won't let our country -- because it's a personality trait. i'm not going to let our country be taken advantage of. so it is a personality trait. but i don't think it's really a bad personality trait. >> dylan, do you think this plays as him showing how he'll be strong for the country, or does this play about how he has a hard time not making it about him? >> well, look. for his diehard supporters, there's no question that this plays as a power move by him. they know he has a lot of leverage. they know he's responsible for bringing huge ratings to these debates. and you know, look, there are a lot of people who are going to
follow trump wherever he goes and that includes following him away from the debate to the event he's going to hold tonight. the big question here in iowa is what about those undecided voters? what about those conservatives who are undecided between donald trump and ted cruz? do they look at this as a power move, or do they look at this as cutting and running? and if they do, that could tip the scales, because remember, we're talking about the sort of major media event just four days out from the iowa caucuses, so this could have a big impact on how those undecided voters think about what they do on monday. >> do you think this is about trump against the media, or trump against fox news and the infight within the gop? >> well, fundamentally, it's about trump doing what's best for trump. but what he's doing, the fact that he can do this, the fact that he can go up against fox news, which historically has been the network for republican candidates, is because there's actually a great deal of sort of antipathy and anger toward fox
news among some ultra conservatives. you know, when we think about the sort of american political media landscape, we very often think about fox news being the network for republicans. we confuse that with fox news being the network for conservatives. for a lot of ultra conservatives, the sort of folks in talk radio land, the folks at sites like that, they don't necessarily identify with fox news. that's why you've seen donald trump have his feuds with various fox news pundits, and why that's helped him in the polls. >> do you see that the same way? you can say it's about him and the media. the media is not nice to him. fox news is different when you come to this analysis. it's certainly different for a republican. do you see this, this kind of internal war playing out right now? >> i think that people were talking about who trump is fighting. who trump and cruz and the other candidates are fighting over in iowa, don't see folks the way they see fox. they see fox as being an established media organization. they don't necessarily see it as being a republican arm. so i think dylan's right. i think they think that he's being treated somewhat unfairly
and i think absolutely, his idea that i'm doing this because i need to stand up to this is going to be very effective. the idea that anybody who is undecided about trump or cruz right now would tip to the cruise camp because of the idea of their belief in the idea of unfettered ideas at a debate, i just don't see that as being significant. >> put up the tweet about the trump twitter poll. debate or not. should i do the gop debate? 56 on his own twitter feed said yes, he should do it. >> but how many of those said they're not going to vote for him if he doesn't do it? >> fair point, fair point. but the point is are you doing the right thing or not? dylan, go ahead. >> yeah, i would also just point out that while 56 is a majority, it's not necessarily a huge majority. i was talking to a very influential conservative radio voice here in iowa and nationally. one thing he pointed out to me is that your average iowa caucus goer is not your average fox news viewer. there's a huge disparity there. and for a lot of those guys,
they look at fox news and they see a lot of bush era pundits. they see a lot of establishment republicans. they see karl rove, charles crowdhammer, brit hume. the people speaking to the conservative base are largely on talk radio, largely on some of these new conservative sites that have proliferated in the last five to ten years. so we're just dealing really with two different sides of the gop. which side wins is what we're going to see on monday. >> do you think trump has any good case to make that the media is unfair to him? >> no, none at all. the media has made donald trump. every reporter in new york has gotten a phone call back from donald trump. what's fascinating about this debate is the essence of the argument about megyn kelly being an issue unfair is completely lost. now it's about fox. he effectively has made that argument that he was unfair to kelly go away. now it's about him, fox, strategy, politics, and the debate. >> you know what? good. good for trump. because the things he said about
her as a woman are offensive. and you can't lead being that way. and good for the media. because you shouldn't be able to say i'm going to boycott someone because i don't like the reporter's question. >> i absolutely agree. i think the rules the media has played by by trump, they need to be rethought. >> all right. larry, dylan, thanks for being out in the cold for us. appreciate it, pal. i know what it's like out there. john, over to you. hillary clinton suddenly pushing for another debate before the new hampshire primary. but bernie sanders pushing back. he has his own terms now. so how will this affect the race? a former top adviser to president obama joins us next. what makes this simple salad the best simple salad ever? heart healthy california walnuts. the best simple veggie dish ever?
. as the republican candidates prepare for tonight's debate, hillary clinton is hoping she will get another debate with bernie sanders. before the new hampshire primary. so with just four days to go until iowa, until the caucuses there, is this a last ditch effort to get another face-off? let's bring in cnn political commentator, former senior adviser to president obama dan pfeiffer. we're going to jump back and forth between the republicans and the democrats because you're just that good. let me start with the republicans right now. you tweeted out yesterday, you bet donald trump shows up to this debate tonight in iowa. you think he makes some dramatic entrance there. you still believe that to be so? >> it seems less likely today after his interview with bill o'reilly last night, but it would be very fitting with trump's style to play this out by keeping everyone in suspense to the absolute last moment and dive in there in the most
dramatic fashion, because his strategy is to suck up all the oxygen and dominate the conversation for as long as possible and prevent people like ted cruz from getting oxygen out there. it's a truly -- he's teaching a master class in manipulation. >> we're not going to give him any more oxygen right now, because i'm going to pivot to the democrats. nothing serves the american people more than a debate about debates. and we're getting it on both sides of the aisle. but the democrats now, it's the clinton campaign that all of a sudden wants these debates back out in the sunlight for actual human viewers to see. this is what hillary clinton said about it. >> senator sanders has started to get increasingly personal with his attacks. he compared me to dick cheney last week, which is kind of a low blow. >> all right. i think actually have the hillary clinton talking about the debate sound byte right here. let's play it. >> i'm ready for the debate, and
i hope senator sanders will change his mind and join us. i think the dnc and the campaign should be able to work this out. i've said for a long time that i'd be happy to have more debates and i hope we can get this done. >> so now hillary clinton wants more debates. now bernie sanders says well, maybe, or on my own terms or not so much. the sanders campaign essentially says hillary clinton wants debates now because she needs debates. true? >> i think they're right about that, john. look, the die unanimous nick this race has changed dramatically in the last three weeks. it's very clear that senator sanders has some real momentum heading into iowa. i still believe hillary clinton has a huge structural advantage to actually win the nomination, regardless of what happens in the first two states. but if this is a very different, much longer, and much more painful nomination fight, if senator sanders sweeps the first two states. so the clinton campaign is completely going on the offensive, trying to play the role of the underdog to try to
win iowa. which i think will make her life a lot easier. and you can see sanders already for the insurgent upstart now starting to play the role of the cautious frontrunner and that's always a mistake if you're in that position. we made some of those mistakes in 2008 when we got too far ahead. that's why we lost new hampshire. >> so you think it's a risk. you think sanders should say, you want a debate, let's go do it? >> since senator sanders has nothing to lose, he needs to press his case all the way to the end if will wants to have a chance to win this thing. >> does that mean going negative? there are some remarkable articles, "the new york times" and "wall street journal" saying there were meetings last night in the sanders campaign. they bought all this ad time in iowa. they're deciding, are you going to put on positive ads or negative ads? and they still haven't decided yet whether they're going to go negative in iowa. what do you think the calculation is about whether to go negative and why do you think they're leaking about the fact that they can't decide? >> well, let me answer the second question first. that is absolute malpractice to have a public discussion in "the
new york times" about whether they're going to go positive or negative. because now whatever they do is going to be pushed through a strategic crass filter. so huge error there. amateur hour. if you're going to win an election, you have to be willing to draw contrast. in a democratic primary against a very popular well-liked individual like secretary clinton, it is a mistake to do it personally. you can do it, as we did in 2008, drawing contrast on style, contrast on policy. but you have to draw contrast. senator sanders won't win this race if he doesn't draw some contrast. but if he does things like compare secretary clinton to dick cheney, that's not going to play very well with democratic voters. >> one other thing you did in 2008, he kind of had secret back room deals with bill richardson on caucus night. there's the 50% threshold for democrats there, wheeling and dealing to get candidates who don't rise above 15% to get their supporters. how much work is being done behind the scenes to get those martin o'malley supporters?
that could matter. >> it could. i think it's less than in 2008. 2008, you had a long list of candidates. richardson, vice president biden, senator dodd who were not going to make threshold in a lot of districts. but that was a lot of voters to divvy up between john edwards, hillary clinton, and president obama. but in a lot of these smaller rural districts that had disproportionate weight in the iowa caucus system, that is going to matter. so if the clinton and sanders organizations are well organized and well run, they will identify with supporters, begin outreach to them and have a strategy to woo them over on caucus night. in a very close race, and everything says this will be a very close race, it could make a difference. >> it will be an o'malley factor. great to have you with us this morning. everyone stick around for this next story, because he was held captive by iran for 40 days before being freed in that prisoner swap earlier this month. what the american hostage says he went through and the dramatic
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in trouble. >> i'm sitting in an interrogation cell in a specific floor of a specific building used by the intelligence services in iran. and their very first sentence was do you know jason rezaian? and i said of course. the whole world knows that name. and they were pacing behind me. the prayer beads clicking and he said he's never leaving and neither are you. and that is when it starts to hit you. you are actually in prison. >> were they using you to your face? >> absolutely. i was accused of trying to overthrow the -- personally, trying to overthrow the iranian government. accuse of having access to bank accounts of knowing million os dollars and accused of knowing locations of weapons caches around the country. and when i pointed out to them
that the tools to accomplish this deed which would be very difficult -- a newspaper some flash cards and some pens. you know, they said well it is not our plan. it is yours. >> when did you know you were going to be released. >> an hour before i was released. was definitely i think the most dangerous two hours probably, dangerous and difficult time for me. i was kind of violently pulled out of my cell. put into the -- rushed down to the basement. you make up a series of left and right turns that are obviously designed to disorient you. you go downstairs. and i could not believe what i was looking at. i'm looking at a pitch black room with a single spotlight pointed at a chair with an ultrahigh definition camera, not dissimilar from the ones you have, pointed at my face and a white sheet next to the camera. i sit down. my interrogator walks in.
stands behind a white sheet. i have no idea what they are about to film. the man operating the camera has a surgical mask on. you know i'm sitting there, the spotlight is on me and they say matthew. matt. this is your last chance. admit why you are here. admit that you are here to overthrow the government. admit that you work for the u.s. government. admit. admit it. admit the truth. and, you know, this was a particularly proud moment for me. they said dune do you need time to think? i said yes. and they come back in the room and i look right in the camera and i said i've said everything i have to say and i stand up and turn my back to the camera. again tough meta con in addition
goin -- meta cognition going, your inner critic. and it really just felt like the right thing to do. and they say you have made a very bad decision. rip me out throw me up to the wall. i stay there several minutes and then i'm rushed back to my cell. okay, that's happening. just take this. lunch is on the ground. i eat lunch for a must minutes before another guard comes back and collects all your things. and i walk down the hallway, about ten paces from my cell. you go left. that is the door towards the exit. you go right, deeper into the cell, deep entire the prison towards solitary confinement cells and god knows what else. and i stop, my heart's racing. my inner critic now is louder than ever. great matt, now you are about to reap whether you have sewn.
and oddly enough, they said turn left. and okay. drop your things. okay. quick medical examination. they kind of like very hurriedly put me back in my street clothes. everything i had when i was taken minus several things. and blindfold back on. sitting in the back of a car and the car makes a few turns. take off the blindfold. i look ahead and that is when i see a sight aisle never forget. two swiss diplomats with the door open to a car. one of them said, you know, matthew, we'll go now. get in the middle seat. and the car took off at a hundred miles an hour to the airport. >> what an intense story. i had a chance to talk with matt yesterday after that interview. we were outside on the street here in front of the building. and he said i can't believe i'm standing here on new york street calling my friends on a cell phone about where to eat in
manhattan and three weeks ago i was in an iranian prison. >> you can see that it on face. the smile on his face is just i think thank god i'm here. >> we get a little desensitized with movies and things seeing where this takes place but can you imagine walking into a room like where you have to assume something very terrible may happen to you and your life comes down basically to hue you answer a single question. he delivers this brilliantly with a kind of emotional distance. but you imagine what would be going through your head. what you think is about to happen to you. >> and why not at that moment just acquiesce and say i'll say whatever you want me to say. >> i think would be a very strong human inclination. you don't know what you would do in a situation like that. i promise you that. amazing. >> we're following a lot of news this morning. let's get right to it. >> i have zero respect for megyn
kelly. i don't think she's good at what she does. i think she's highly over rated. >> apparently mr. trump considers megyn kelly very, very scary. >> answer the question, look out for the folks. for the folks. just want you to consider. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> the people of flint here today as we sit here, can they drink the water? >> no we don't want them to to. >> governor will you resign? >> no. >> you didn't declare a state of emergency until how long? >> good morning. welcome to your "new day." 8:00 in the east.
tonight's final republican debate before the iowa caucuses will be missing its front runner. donald trump is planning a competing event at the same time saying the treatment he has received from fox news deserves the eye for an eye treatment. >> meanwhile the candidates who will be on the stage hope trump's absence gives them an opening. let's begin our coverage cnn's phil mattingly live in des moines, iowa. >> good morning alisyn. jeb bush told reporters yesterday that he bet $20 donald trump would still find a way to show up at this debate. jeb bush is probably going to have to pay somebody $20. the ink is dry. tickets are out. another element of a race that's been topsy-turvy throughout the months, frustrating campaigns and definitely shining the light on an escalating feud between donald trump and fox news.
donald trump on hours away from hosting his special event to raise money for veterans at drake university in des moines. the affair airing at the same time as the prime time debate. >> what we have going and it is really important. it is a movement. it is not a normal situation. >> but the gop front runner's decision is not without irony. >> i was not treated well by fox. >> trump appearing last night fox news anchor bill o'reilly failing to coax him back to the stage. >> just want you to consider it. you owe me milk shakes. i'll take them off the ledger if you consider it. >> i told you up front i said don't ask me that question because it is an -- [inaudible]. >> and i'm not going to listen to any political person tell me don't ask me anything. >> reporter: o'reilly repeatedly asking trump to reconsider. >> if you don't want to it's up to you. >> reporter: and ted cruz run number two in the polls is
likely to be pushed to center stage. now cruz is doubling down on the challenge for a one-on-one debate with his biggest rival. >> i'm going to propose a venue. western iowa tech, saturday night in sioux city. we already have it reserved. >> cruz's super pac offering 1.5 million to vets group if trump agrees. and carly fiorina upping the ante. the media spectacle rubbing the rest of the gop pac the rest way. >> i don't think he'll be missed. in fact i don't think he's a conservative. >> 90% of their coverage is on this whole thing. this is not a show. this is serious. so, donald trump making a stand? or trump only stands for himself? that is the debacle. let's lest the two sides.
katrina, we start with you. it seems that this is a done deal. he will not be at the debate tonight. can you confirm that? and what do you see to be the upside of this? >> well yes i can confirm that. good morning. this is really more about the respect that mr. trump has been given particularly by fox news. everyone saw the statement that came out. it was extremely unprofessional. mr. trump has been the front runner of the republican party in this race since he entered in june. and it was extremely disrespectful. and it is not just about mr. trump. it is about that 40% of the base that is supporting him nationwide. the upside to this is now mr. trump can focus on doing something he's been wanting to do for a very long time and that is to holden event for veterans. >> is that what this is about ben ferguson? finding a way to raise money for veterans? i saw you shake your head and smiling a non smile. what is your point? >> yeah. well look this is a sick and vile move by a guy who loves
that to throw those words around. donald trump. to use wounded warriors and their true battle scars to his political advantage, i would say this to katrina. i'm not dumb enough to buy that this is about the veterans. because donald trump has never held an event for veterans on his campaign to help and support them with raising money. he uses them for cover now. you have veterans that aren't able to walk. you have veterans that have lost limbs. and pause you don't like someone that says something about you at fox, you then decide to use them. now remember this is a guy who said john mccain is not a hero. a war hero or a war veteran because he got captured. and i don't like people that get captured. donald trump also tried to kick veterans who had special permits to sell things to make a living in new york city away from his hotels multiple times because he said they were a nuisance and
were bad for his properties. so for him to come out now in a self righteous way and to say i'm going to stand up for veterans and i'm going to do an event that i haven't had time to do until it was convenient for him to tonight. many veterans are going to be turned off by this. many have said they think this is disgusting. they went and fought for their country and now donald trump uses them as political pawns. i can't support it and it's sick. >> well in fact -- >> the head of the iava, it is not just ferguson. the head of the iava says we're not going take any o donations from trump's event. we need strong policies from a candidate. that is what we need. not this type of situation to be used as a pawn. your response? >> well yeah it is not in fact just about veterans, benn. i this i you know this more than anyone. this is not the first time mr. trump that is talked about helping veterans and you should see the veterans that come out to support him. this event sold out in less than
two hours. there are a lot of people who want to do this it is not just a reason or an excuse. >> the sure it is. >> the concept was if i'm not going to do the debate, then i'm going to do something. and that is what he wanted to do. more importantly this is about the 40% of his base that is constantly offended on a daily basis from pundits like ben who tell everyone that they shouldn't be supporting trump and here are the reasons why. everyone has their own life experience. there are major issues across the world. and we have an american political system where a news network can mock a presidential candidate who is leading in the republican party who has also has connections to other campaigns as well as policies on the hill. >> katrina, if you are going to act like -- if donald trump really gets this hurt emotionally over a statement put out by fox news, he should read his own twitter feet. what they put on paper is about three or you are four tweets on
average of what donald trump puts out every day. the point is he can dish it, he cannot take it. and as soon as he gets in trouble with anyone he doesn't like. as soon as someone doesn't say he's great, he says they are stupid. the same way you guys have never donen event to support the veterans to raise money for them in your entire campaign until tonight when fs politically an opportunity for you to come out and say we are going to save the world and our veterans we love. you never did it beforehand which means you didn't believe it in beforehand. it is only now -- >> and you are not paying attention to the trump campaign. >> katrina? >> then you haven't been playing to the trump campaign. but i'll -- >> let her go, ben. >> this is a business decision. >> it is a business decision.
>> -- of millions of dollars on donald trump and his viewers. this is what this is about as well. >> are you running for president? are you running a business? >> ben, are you going to let me respond? >> katrina, go ahead. >> this is about the viewerships on fox news where fox news has been very hostile towards him. this debate was also in conjunction with the nro, which everyone saw the against trump piece. so why is it are you going to trash the republican front runner and then -- >> are you running for president -- [inaudible]. >> hold on. katrina, let him respond you. you made your point. ben respond. >> katrina, you are acting as if donald trump is somehow running a business here. which one is it? is he running for president and truly wanting to fix this country or is everything about the money?
everything you just said is about the money. how dare -- if you want to go back into the private business, go sell clothes. that is fine with me. go out there and attack the veterans who are selling things around your buildings where you say they are a nuisance. but don't act like you are holier than thou and somehow doing this for the greater good when all you are talking about is how much money you are going make tonight. i want someone running for president who is not word about their own personal finances -- >> katrina, respond. >> mr. trump is running for president. mr. trump is running for president. fox news is running a business. mr. trump has been the most accessible candidate than all of the candidates. he's answered all of the questions. he's had the most town halls. he's made the most appearances in the media. he's the one out there going to the people. the most rallies, the most people attending those campaigns ben. this is running for president. you have to make tough
decisions -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> -- your 40% of the supporters of the republican primary. that is who we're talking about here. >> katrina, in terms of the state of play here. it seemed that bill o'reilly last night on the fox news channel was very solicitous of donald trump in trying to convince him to rethink this situation. dune if mo you know if mr. aile reached out to try to change this? >> no. not to my knowledge. mr. trump has been very clear about his intentions. he's excited about the event tonight and. this is nothing different than the rnc who pulled out of a network who was being dishonest
and unfair. >> is this something we can expect to be repeated going forward? like the next time i interview mr. trump he doesn't like something, does that mean a boycott of cnn? is this a new tactic? or is this a one thyme thing? >> i think this is different. this is a debate the network was constantly discouraging him and his supporters by the way. we keep leaving that out. 40% of the base are supporting him and -- >> we're gonna leave it there. >> let's be clear though. i got to say one thing. the question donald trump is so upset about for megyn kelly was megyn kelly quoting his own words. if that is now an unfair question -- >> as a tv character. >> as -- literally quoting his own words. if i go back.
>> -- as the tv character. >> -- i'm now banished from the campaign? >> that is the question but we have the rebuttal as well. i appreciate you guys letting each other speak. there is obviously a very big conflict going don withconflictn within the ranks. we appreciate it. >> four days from iowa caucuses. the margin razor thin on both sides. on the democratic side talking about debates as well. specifically whether there should be one added next week just before the new hampshire primary? jeff zeleny live with more. >> reporter: one of the biggest differences between the 2008 campaign that we're talking so much about now and this campaign is the number of debates. more than 30 debates in 2008. well in this debate on the democratic side so far only four debates. hillary clinton is saying she
wants to do more debates. that is a change of position that she had earlier this year because suddenly this race so o much more competitive with bernie sanders. listen to what she said yesterday. >> i would like the chairman of the party and the campaign to agree that we can debate in new hampshire of next week. that is what i'm hoping will happen. >> so of course. we will find out if there is a debate next week in new hampshire. the democratic national committee is not so sure. they said that there would be no debates next week. the sanders campaign is saying look. we'll do more debates, but not right now. jeff weaver t campaign manager said senator sanders is ha happy to have the debates but we're not going to schedule them at the whim of the clinton campaign. so this is signifying one thing. the campaign on the democratic side is likely to stretch out far beyond the early states of iowa, new hampshire, south
carolina. it is likely to go so much further. so the final days here both sides trying to mobilize bases. hillary clinton, bill clinton. chelsea clinton and so many more surrogates. >> they are pulling out all the stops. thanks for that report. we are just four days away from the iowa caucuses. so we're taking "new day" on the road for the big event. live on monday from mars cafe in des moines. please stop by. and of course we'll have live coverage of the iowa caucuses all day on monday. breaking overnight now three militants occupying the oregon refuge have been arrested but not everyone is listening to group leader bundy's request to go home. cnn is live in or and spoke exclusively with protesters. what did day tell you? >> we were on the phone with
sean anderson. she says he's still on the refuge with his wife sandy and three others. and they say look, here is what we've been offering the fbi. they offer if they let us come out of the refuge we will leave. we will go back to our respective states. they will leave oregon altogether. but they will not leave if it means that they are going to be arrested. that is what he told me. he says look, if they let us go. they don't make us go through a check point. we'll leave the refuge. we will get out. we will do so peacefully. otherwise he said he's not afraid to die. he wanted the world to know that he absolutely would never kill himself because he believes in heaven and that goes against his believes on how one who you would make it to heaven. he was very clear headed in the way he was talking about kpa whaekt they plan to do but he said the fbi made some promises to them that they would not be raiding them this morning. that they would continue talking and not go in just at this time.
but it is a tense situation. we are standing where the road is closed. and you can see the lights behind me is where the check point is and there are snipers up on that check point as cars come through chris. >> thank you very much. we'll keep monitoring the situation. also this morning we have new video of drug lord walkjoaquin chapo" guzman behind bars shortly behind his capture. it shows for the first time "el chapo" getting fingerprinted, blood sample, standing for a mug shot, signing documents and being questioned. it also explains in detail how the drug lord escaped prison last july. jimmy fallon taking a swipe at donald trump over the debate boycott. stephen colbert gets the scoop on an ice cream flavor inspired by bernie sanders. in case you had to go to sleep last night lucky you. >> trump said he's not going to
the debate because moderator megyn kelly is biased against him. and trump has a right to be scared was a usually when a younger, attractive woman disagrees with him she usually ends up taking half his stuff. >> ice cream just for bernie sanders called bernie's yearning. we already have bernie's yearning. why not caramel fiorina. or martin o mall mar or maybe hillary's whatever flavor you want this to be. [ applause ] i'm sure. delicious, dlirs. i'm sure the public would go for ben carson's ambient ambien crunch and --.
[ laughter ] >> that is great. submit your ice cream flavors here. meanwhile, donald trump ripping a page out of rand paul's playbook by skipping the debate. what does rand paul think will happen tonight as he returns to the main stage. the senator joins us live when "new day" returns. boys have been really good today. send. let's get mark his own cell phone. nice. send. brad could use a new bike. send. [siri:] message. you decide. they're your kids. why are you guys texting grandma? it was him. it was him. keep your family connected. app-connect. on the newly redesigned passat. from volkswagen. whfight back fastts tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue and neutralizes stomach acid at the source tum, tum, tum, tum smoothies! only from tums
couple dozen points i would say. he thinks he's already elected himself king. i'd say good riddance. >> that was rand paul welcoming donald trump's decision. that has the kentucky senator returns to the main stage after skipping the last undercard debate himself. did donald trump take a page out of senator rand paul's book? let's ask. good morning senator. >> thanks for having me. >> i know you are out in the cold. is donald trump tonight pulling a rand paul? >> it is kind of the opposite actually. i was lobbying to get into the debate and he's running away from the debate. no i think he's very much afraid of questions about his bankruptcies. maybe about afraid about the fact that he's actually never voted in a republican presidential primary. so, you know, for 70 years he's been a progressive democrat. i was wondering if maybe he was going show up in the democratic primary debate the next time.
>> touche. you had your issues with being shunted in the under card debate. and you decided to skip it. he says he has his issues with one of the moderators so he's skipping. >> well the difference is i was lobbying to be in the debate. i think there is only really one main debate and i thought we deserved to be in it. i was never lobbying to avoid questions from a tough questioner. and i think really what he's done and what he's said about the moderator is inappropriate and he should be shunned for it. so i think that he has brought the debate, the presidential debate, the tenor of the debate to historic low. so yeah i think it is fine if he misses because it does bring up the respectability of the debate when you don't have a guy that's talking about things that really are inappropriate even in mixed
company. >> the inappropriate things you are referring to are the words that he's used to describe one of the debate moderators megyn kelly. and you think that it goes yongd his feelings about megyn kelly. i've heard you say that you think -- >> we lost her signal. we lost her signal. >> senator, can you hear us? all right. we'll take a very quick break. we'll get senator rand paul back in one second. the biggest challenge for business today is not competition, it's protecting customer trust. every day you read headlines about governments and businesses being hacked, emails compromised, and intellectual property being stolen. that is cyber-crime, and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit
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republican senator and presidential candidate rand paul. sorry about that. let's get back to where we left off. you were saying you think the things donald trump said about the moderator megyn kelly are so inappropriate you don't even want to say them on the air but you think it is bigger than that. do you think he has issues with women? >> i think he doesn't like to talk about, you know, his bankruptcies. and i think, you know, part of his shtick is that he's all powerful. he's so rich you can't imagine how rich he is. that he's going to fix the country. and i don't think he likes to be challenged about the fact he's been bankrupt for times. he doesn't want to be asked questions about what happened to the workers that didn't get paid when he stiffed his creditors. i think he also doesn't want to ask the question or answer the question about, you know, what
does it mean to be a candidate that wants more power to gravitate to the presidency. there is a longstanding tradition monk conservatives, myself included that we want to limit the power of the executive. we don't want a strong executive. we want more checks and balances between congress and the president. we actually want more power between the states and people. that's actually what we're concerned about government that power has a corrupting influence. so i think he does want to avoid difficult questions. and i do think he's used to getting his way. >> politico has a piece in donald trump's absence, what you will do and your strategy. so let me bounce it off you. they say that for cruz, trump's absence means the other candidate whose trail him in iowa such as marco rubio and rand paul only have one leader
to fire upon. paul has been itching to take on cruz. is that your plan tonight? >> well, you know, i think he does have an authenticity problem. particularly with liberty voters. we don't want the government collecting all our phone records and when he told marco rubio that he voted for the reform because he wanted the government to collect 100% of our cell phone records, that troubled the liberty voter. when he he didn't show up for others that troubled the liberty voters. but i this i also rubio has had a point on the immigration issue that cruz now wants to accuse everybody in the whole world of amnesty and this is short of his shtick in washington and goes to the problems he has in washington. he creates these false narrate evers. everybody is for amnesty except for him. except for during the debate over immigration he was for legalization, which is not a bad thing to be for. in fact if we secure the border first i think it is a reasonable thing we can work towards.
but he used to be for that. now he's against it because he just as hard line as donald trump on immigration. and i think there is a certain falseness that begins to come forward. >> you are pulling out all the stops. we find you in des moines this morning. we understand that you have something like at least 16 campaign events because now and monday's caucuses. what number do you think you need to come in in the caucuses and new hampshire to move forward? >> our secret weapon will be the youth vote. and we don't know how many will turn out. but i do know that for the last several weeks i've had about a hundred young men and women, college age, volunteers, i making phone calls in iowa. and they have made over 800 thousand, i think approaching 9 hundred thousand phone calls for me. we believe we're going to cross the million phone call threshold
before the next election. extraordinary feat. we have a thousand precinct chairs. we expect to surprise people. one of the interesting things about the polls is when you ask people who they voted for in 2012 it is a very small number saying ron paul. so we think our voters aren't being included in the surveys. so we think we're underestimated and we hope to shock some people. >> i know it is hard to talk about ice cream when you are standing outside in the cold but ben and injury's ice cream has just come up with a new flavor for bernie sanders. and i'm wondering if you have ever considered what flavor ice cream could be dedicated to you. >> you know, i wonder if ben and jerry's is going to add to their business model it ought to be free for everyone. so i think the bernie sanders ice cream should be free. >> well played.
but just if you need a suggestion we came up with kentucky bourbon brittle. >> ah, i like that. i like that. >> thought you would like that. all right senator. thanks so much. of course we'll be watching tonight and beyond. thanks so much for being on "new day." >> remarkable cnn exclusive this that morning. calls for the governor of michigan to resign over the flint water crisis which has left at least 100 children poisoned with lead. poisoned because of government decisions. poppy harlow joins us live from flint. >> reporter: good morning. the governor, rick snyder, calling this a terrible tragedy. he has apologized several times to the people here in flint and he has vowed to do everything he can to help. his critics say it is too late.
the governor convened a meeting yesterday with 17 expert t doctor whose discovered the lead in the water here trying to figure out what they can possibly do to help the people of flint who have been through the unthinkable. >> can the people of flint today as we sit here drink the water? >> no. we don't want them to. and that is the terrible tragedy of all this. >> this morning as the people of flint wait and wonder if they have been poisoned by the lead in their water, michigan governor rick snyder admits he failed them and promises to fix the crisis. >> all medical experts agree no level of lead ingested by anyone especially children is okay. >> that's correct. >> you testified over 100 children here in flint have high levels of lead in their blood. how many kids is it as by sit here today. >> it's about a hundred and some other the last couple years. >> and there could be many more. >> there could be many more and
we're assuming that. >> a local pediatrician one of the first to discover the lead in the water here calls the impact on the children irreversible and multi generational. >> a doctor told me that what can be done is you can minimize the impact through early literature program, universal preschool, access to healthy foods, they say the calcium binds instead of the lead to the bones. etc. mental health services. she put a price tag on that governor. she said it was going to cost a hundred million dollars just to do that. would you make sure they get a 00 million dollars? >> will you make sure they get that if that's what they snead. >> we're making sure shea get what they need. >> a --. to do that, would have only cost
$100 a day. but that was never done. >> i was speaking with a young man this morning. and he said to me they put money over people. and he said the black lives and the poor white lives weren't worth it. when you look at the numbers, $100 a day. what happened? >> well that is the failure point. i mean n terms of cost structures, $100 a day, this is where the huge error was is people -- there were people that were subject matter experts in this that didn't believe that needed to be done. that was a huge mistake. that was part of the fundamental mistake of the whole situation. >> didn't -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> -- priority here over -- >> not at all. this is where the investigations will follow up. and we're cooperating with all those. because i want to find out what went on. i want the facts out there. >> the kids were being poisoned by the water they were drinking here. the epa knew about it.
your spokesman knew about it in july 2015 and sent an e-mail about it. and you didn't declare a state of emergency until january of this year. why did it take so long? >> actually i learned about it in october. and i took action immediately then, offering filters, working with people on getting water. on doing water testing. again we needed to do more. so as soon as i learned about it. we took dramatic action. >> why not just immediately replace all of the lead pipes? >> that is a question you can ask across the country. >> i'm asking you because flint -- flint has had people poisoned. >> that is not a short-term project in terms of ripping all all the infrastructure. replacing all that, that can take an extended period of time. >> your stormer spokesman wrofo an e-mail. i'm frustrated by the water in flint. these folks are scared and worry
about health impacts and they are basically getting blown off by us. you have said since then you knew about that e-mail and you were maid aware of that. why not act then. >> the experts came back from environmental quality and health and human services and said they didn't see a problem with lead in the water or lead in the blood. >> folks here did. they were getting rashes, their kids -- >> let me finish poppy. that makes you feel terrible. i mean i wish you would have done something different. >> as the scope of the crisis has grown residents have rallied, demanding the governor step down. >> a number of the residents that i've spoken with in flint have said ultimately they want accountability. governor will will you resign? >> no. again, i think it is normal. the right action is, if you have a problem that happened from people that you are responsible for, you go solve it. you don't walk away from it.
>> so here is what we do know. so far 28 million dollars has been committed to helping the people here. the governor has said they will go after more money. as you heard the doctor said they need 100 million dollars just to give the children the help they need. early education programs. proper nutrition to try to counteract some of that lead poisonings as much as they can. in terms of replacing the lead pipes, the governor did tell me they are looking at it. it may happen. that price tag is going to be 50 and $75 million according to the e epa. we'll be watching. the governor told me he will be spending a lot more time here with the people of flint to do everything they possibly can, chris. >> the governor also announced at the state of the state that he has a surplus. the question is where does that money go? stay warm and stay on the story. the man hunt intensifying if are the three escaped inmates in
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time now for the five things to know for your "new day." number one. donald trump says he's firmly planning to boycott tonight's fox news debate. trump will host a veterans benefit instead. other republicans say trump is afraid to answer tough questions. overnight three militants occupying that oregon refuge. they were arrested. ammon bundy who was currently in jail is urging a small band of remaining protesters to go home. charges filed over a police lieutenant who killed himself last year. melanie gliniewicz is accused of helping him steal money donate id his charity. >> escape prisoners leading to e rest of five people. >> and today plarks the 30th
anniversary of the space shuttle challenger disaster. later this morning ceremonies will be held at kennedy space center and in arlington virginia to remember the crew members who died. a potential breakthrough to help earlier detection of schizophrenia. in today's "new day," new you, researchers zeroing in on a process during adolescence that reduces brain connections no longer needed for adulthood. researchers say if the genes that control the process are too intense, the genes can tell the body to dismantle other connections bringing on schizophrenia. this discovery could help establish new early discovery treatment methods. >> we are getting an insiders take on the jail break. next.
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at least five with alleged gang ties have been arrested in connection with the escape from a orange county jail. joining sus retired new york state department of corrections jeff dumas. he worked at the clinton correctional facility where two inmates escaped last in summer. we're going on like a week these guys have been on the run. as every day passes less likely they are caught? >> yeah good morning john. eventually they are going to get caught. but it is going to take a little while. and you are looking at a different scenario in california then you were in up state new york. >> upstate new york it was wilderness. here they are in california. not too far from l.a. >> absolutely. and especially the two with the gang ties they have a network that is going try to protect them. and they are in a city environment. so they are being taken care of.
whereas the escape in new york those guys were out. they had to scrounge and try to find everything they could. in l.a. chances are there are people helping them and they have everything they need. >> and we saw five arrests in the area already. some with alleged gang ties like two of the inmates. so how were investigators going about this? are they trying to roll up these people they are apprehending right now? >> oh absolutely. if they can find a crime that's been committed by any of these gang members now they face time? if they can squeeze them and get information and make a deal instead of them going prison, hey we'll give up the guys that are posed to be in prison. and they are going just keep piling up the arrests until they can get somebody to give them information. the normal citizens that live in those areas, they don't want to give it up because their lives
are in danger by the gang members. if they give up a gang member they are in trouble within their own neighborhood. so it is going to be a fellow gang member that is going to end up giving them away. >> let's back up a little bit too what the situation was inside the jail. if these guys are such dangerous figures. if two of the three were such potentially violent gang members. why were they housed together? >> you know, i can only speak for my experience in new york. but in seeing what's going on in california, you have to remember. these guys weren't convicted yet. they are just in a county jail awaiting trial. they are being warehoused. should they have been segregated? absolutely. but it becomes a budgetary item with the county that how many cells can the county afford to, you know, keep in their budget. whereas if you have a big dormitory style setting that
they were in, it iss easier to house inmates because it is cost effective in a determinate rdor setting. >> what about the 15 hours between head counts that. seems like a very large gap. >> yeah that is huge. that's unbelievable. i don't understand how they can get away with that. i dare that say that that will be the first thing that they change. you know, it all depends on their programs. they have going for these inmates, you know, because you do have political pressure saying they must go for education. they have healthcare. lawyer visits. all kinds of things they have to let them out to do. so in the morning you have them all in one area. you can count them. but throughout the day at this jail they may be going back and forth everywhere. >> jeff quickly -- >> and you don't have them back in until late. >> any chance they didn't have help on the inside?
they cut through thick metal. they had the resources obviously to get out. did that require inside help? >> absolutely. in order for them to cut through what they did they had to have some help. but whether -- when you say inside it could be from a civilian employee or it could have been smuggled through the visiting rooms from someone on the outside thus becoming inside help. but something was definitely smuggled to them in order for them to make this break. >> jeff dumas. thank you. i've smoked a lot
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to unleash your potential. start every day with milk's protein and milk life. here we go. bobby smith. grew up in flint, michigan. heres about the contaminated water. hates it of course. says what am i going to do about it? takes action into his own hands. >> i don't got the money i i got the voice. and if the voice can be heard then i can get help. >> see that? he doesn't even live in flint right now. some family and friends still do. he went to them. he used that voice to knock door to door, go to local business, asking people to donate cases of water bottles.
>> it is a good cause. thinks they need help in michigan and this is something we try to do. >> so far 250 cases of water that he's already started distributing around his home down of flint. need a lot of woebs right now. but also a recognition. >> that's a great. >> but also can you believe these people in this modern age need to live with bottled water for months to come. >> it's crazy. thank goodness for bobby. time for "newsroom" with carol costello. >> thank goodness for carol. >> i appreciate that. newsroom starts now. happening now in the news room. buhl tried. will trump cave? >> just want you to consider it. you owe me milk shakes. i'm take them off the ledger if you consider. >> so if fox's debate is a no-go. what about the offers from his rivals? i'm going to propose a venue. we