tv The Lead With Jake Tapper CNN January 28, 2016 1:00pm-2:01pm PST
my back. >> hours later, he was released. thank you for watching. i'm brooke baldwin. "the lead" with jim sciutto starts right now. >> thank you, brooke baldwin. in tonight's performance the role of donald trump will be played by darrell ham monday. "the lead" start right now. donald trump still planning to no-show and hold a rally down the block for the troops. what will the other candidates do with all that extra oxygen? spreading explosively, the new and disturbing warning about the mosquito-borne virus infecting pregnant women and their babies. plus they are "silence of the lambs" scary and still on the run. new arrests in connection with the manhunt for three escaped inmates. who helped break them out. welcome to "the lead." i'm jim sciutto in for jake tapper and we begin with the politics lead.
in a world without donald trump, what would the republican race look like? well, the political universe will get a taste of alternate reality tonight. the republican front-runner says the fox news debate will happen without him, that he won't put up with what he claims is unfair treatment from the network. while trump may not be there, this is no disappearing act. instead of lining up center stage, the mogul is going head-to-head with the debate in primetime, rallying his masses just down the street at drake university. cnn chief political correspondent dana bash is here with me in washington today. when you look at this as you always do with donald trump political moves, is there method to this madness here? >> you often wonder beat the end of the day the answer has been yes. right now we're just four days away from when iowans will be going to the caucuses, the first votes of 2016. and donald trump is making a huge gamble that his support is strong enough that he can afford to stay off the debate stage and iowans will use in many cases to
make up their minds. that's how donald trump explained on fox his boycott of their debate tonight, and he spent the day trolling fox on twitter. tweets like the debate tonight will be a total disaster. low ratings with advertisers and advertising rates dropping like a rock. trump did spar with fox host bill o'reilly who challenged the billionaire on how he'd hurled insists as president if he can't handle megyn kelly. >> i'm not walking away, bill. >> would you do me a favor -- >> reporter: what trump said pushed him away was a snarky fox press release this week mocking trump. now the reality star will compete with fox's debate, hold his own rally in iowa, one he says will benefit veterans. >> we're going to have a tremendous event and i'll have much more than 60 seconds, frankly, and we'll raise a lot of money for the veterans. >> reporter: trump's absence from the last debate before the iowa caucuses means ted cruz
will take center stage. >> and you know donald is a fragile soul. >> reporter: he's been taking jabs at trump for boycotting, challenging the man he's neck in neck with in iowa to go mano y mano. they're expecting a lot more arrows to come his way without trump on the stage. most trump competitors are dismissing him skipping the debate as a childish stunt. >> this is not a show. >> i don't think he'll be missed. >> reporter: but mike huckabee and rick santorum, two low-polling gop delegates relegated to the undercard stage now say they'll go to trump's rally rather than watch the fox debate. >> i offered to take his podium at the 8:00 debate and that was rejected so i said, okay, well, i'll find something else to do at 8:00. >> reporter: ironic since both santorum and huckabee used to work at fox news. >> it's not an endorsement of donald trump's candidacy, i'll still running for president.
>> reporter: rick santorum, who is also still running for president, told our brooke baldwin in the last half hour that he would have accepted an stwication like this even from hillary clinton because it helps veterans, but, jim, some vets groups are not liking this. the iava, the iraq and afghanistan veterans association, the head of it tweeted that they're going to decline any proceeds if offered because they said they want smart policy prescriptions, not stunts. >> not to be taken advantage of. please stay right there. i do want to bring in sara murray to the conversation. she's in downtown des moines at the republican presidential debate. sara, you've been talking to people in and around the debate hall today. as you speak to them, is it your sense that skipping the debate will help or hurt donald trump? >> well, it's so interesting because when you talk to political operatives about this here in iowa, people who have been through the caucuses, they say if any other candidate were to do this, it would be a problem. you would not want to miss the last republican debate just days before the iowa caucus.
there was actually a media breakfast with the iowa governor and he said while i wouldn't advise trump to skip the debate, i can't really say it will hurt him. trump has set his own rules throughout this campaign, and that has applied to iowa as well, and nobody is sure that this will be the moment all of a sudden that it back fires. >> so dana, as you know, some conservative commentators looked at the fox news statement in response to this and they say in some degree fox brought it on themselves. comparisons to ayatollahs, et cetera. what is the rnc making of this? >> they're trying to walk a fine line here because they sanctioned these debates, they're involved in granting networks debates but i think it's a little bit difficult for them not only with fox but also with any candidate who makes such a big show of this. i will say, though, that i think you're referring to bill bennett, who is kind of a commentator, a long-time
conservative who has a lot of respect within fox news and elsewhere, and he said that he thought that fox did go too far with that really snarky statement. you know what, we've done debates here at cnn and even just covering politics, we try to not make ourselves the story and that is fox gave trump an opening to make fox the story. >> understood. so, sara, we talk about this veterans event tonight. as dana noted, some veterans groups are refusing to take part and refusing to take money from it. so who's actually showing up tonight and which groups will actually take the money raised this evening? >> well, jim, that's an excellent question because this is really starting to look and feel like a slap dash event. cnn has reached out to about half a dozen of some of the most prominent, the biggest groups that help wounded veterans when they come back. none of them at this point have heard from the trump campaign. as of right now the only way we've even seen to give donations is a link that donald trump has tweeted out. it directs you to a website
where you can donate online, but those donations actually go to a donald trump foundation. they don't appear to be funneled directly to a vets group. now, we've reached out to the campaign repeatedly to see if they can give us any more information. we are continuing to reach out to other veterans groups to see who might be the beneficiary here, but so far all we have is donald trump's word that this event is somehow going to benefit veterans. >> yeah, just a few hours to go before that event kicks off. sara murray, dana bash, thanks for joining me. joining us now is the national spokeswoman for the campaign, katrina pearson. thanks for taking the time to come on. >> hi, jim, great to be here. >> as you just heard the previous segment, donald trump has been called out by most of his rivals for deciding against showing up tonight. i just want to quote what ben carson said. he said if you get into the presidency, i guarantee you there's going to be unfairness, so this is just practice for that. in effect responding to trump's contention that fox was not being fair to him.
how do you respond to that criticism from ben carson? >> well, you know, there's always going to be detractors, jim, but this isn't negotiation foreign policy or warfare or isis, for that matter. this is a fox news debate. mr. trump has done a fox news debate. he's done six debates and several events. he's the most accessible candidate. he's done the most town halls, has press conferences, answers all the tough questions. this was made because fox news outed themselves as a biased media organization against trump. as you've seen reports today that there is an executive's daughter who's working on marco rubio's campaign but they haven't disclosed that yet, have they? >> let me ask you this because this is an open question and cnn has reached out to the trump campaign to get an answer to this very simple question. which veterans groups are taking part tonight and which veteran groups have agreed to accept money raised at this event tonight? >> well, you know, jim, there is a website up now and the money
raised will be in bulk and disbursements will be spread all across the country to veterans organizations. those who don't want to receive the money we'll make sure not to send them a check. >> just to be clear -- >> there's a lot of pressure in the media -- go ahead. >> the money is going to a trump organization now. name one veterans organization that has agreed to accept that money. >> i'm sorry, i can't hear you. name one what? >> the money right now is going to a trump organization which you say will be disbursed. >> right. >> can you name one veterans organization that will participate tonight and accept some of the funds raised tonight? >> i believe there might be a list on the website. there are a lot of organizations that are in queue to sign up for this. there are veterans that will be attending tonight and will be doing some of the program as well. but i was going to say with regard to veterans, we've seen a lot of pushback in the media from other veterans who don't appreciate what mr. trump is trying to do for veterans. considering how it's been one of the things that he's been talking about since he entered
the race, jim. but look, his senior policy advisor, retired air force. there's campaign staffers and supporters like nancy mace, who was the first woman to graduate from the citadel. we have gipper in florida who came out and endorsed him a week ago. and i've got to tell you, she was the first woman that saw combat as a marine and so there are veterans supporting mr. trump and these are the people that he gets to meet all across the campaign trail that he gets to see and talk to and that's why this is more of an issue for him to meet these people and see the things that they have gone through throughout their lives. >> i want to take a moment now to ask about some tweets that have appeared on your verified account. you'll remember that my colleague, brian stelter, asked you about a particular tweet you made saying that we need, in your words, pure breed presidents. you dismissed that as silliness and noted that people in the twittersphere call you half breed. but i want to call your
attention to two other tweets that we found somewhat alarming, i'll be honest with you. october 4th, 2012, you wrote #2012, choice mormon or jihadi, clear enough. then on march 3rd, 2013, you wrote this corrupt country has a head negro in charge. both the wording of those but also the allegation in effect there, how do you defend those tweets? >> well, absolutely. as an activist, we spend most of our time, particularly in 2012, fighting off liberal activists and other establishment activists. so of course you can pull any of those tweets out of one of those heated discussions because a lot of time it's in the sphere of fighting off other liberal activists. and i've got to tell you, it's interesting that this has made some sort of news cycle when we have all of the things that are happening in the world, including a presidential race, to go back 36,000 tweets, pull them out of context of the discussion and try to make that a news story.
that's where we are today in the media. it's very biased and that is exactly why mr. trump is not participating in one of the debates tonight. >> i'm just asking you to defend the specific language. >> sure. >> that you use. you're saying that that language responded to other offensive language that was part of the conversation? >> oh, absolutely, absolutely. yes. things get very heated in politics and there were two candidates that i was defending in 2012. one of those was senator ted cruz and the other was house speaker newt gingrich. so in those fights -- and there's been a blog post on this in 2012 outlining a lot of those twitter trolls that we were fighting against. >> katrina pierson, thanks for joining us today. >> thanks, jim. on the democratic side, bernie sanders feeling burned. >> this is a lie, an absolute lie. >> what has the democratic presidential candidate so upset today? that's right after this break. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... isn't it time to let the real you shine through?
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welcome back to "the lead." more now in our politics lead. with democrats still locked in a tight race in iowa, bernie sanders is fighting to pull off an upset and derail hillary clinton's campaign. he is jabbing clinton for fund-raising last night while he was stumping in iowa. and tangling with her over the up and coming debate schedule. for her part, clinton has prodded the 74-year-old senator to release his medical records, which sanders did today. jeff zeleny is in des moines, iowa. jeff, in the cnn town hall on monday sanders said he was a pretty good athlete. do his medical records show that he's a pretty healthy guy at 74? >> reporter: jim, based on the limited that we have, and again it was a one-page letter from the attending physician of
congress, which office has overseen the senator's health for more than 25 years, they say that he is in very good health overall. his blood pressure is pretty normal, his cholesterol is normal. our own dr. sanjay gupta reviewed it and said based on this limited piece of information senator sanders looks fine. if he ever became the democratic nominee, i believe he would be pressed to release more medical records. but this democratic race is heating up even more. now it's a contest, a fight all over debates. it's not just republicans, democrats are locked in their own debate over debates. >> she can't just dictate the rules of the game. >> reporter: "she" would be hillary clinton, who wants to add a new debate in new hampshire, where she's running well behind bernie sanders. >> now, you know, she's falling apparently behind in new hampshire and wants to change the rules. but we are willing to say if she's willing to do a number of debates later on, all right. >> and if she's not, you will not be there in new hampshire next week? >> that's right. >> reporter: sanders asked clinton to sign onto debates in
march, april and may. the clinton campaign is agreeing to that demand. the bottom line, this democratic race has no quick end in sight. four days until the iowa caucuses open their race for the white house, sanders and clinton are in a fierce fight. >> i'm not just shouting slogans roe. >> reporter: but clinton said her rival wouldn't be able to achieve health care or break gridlock. >> i fear it would lead to gridlock, not action. >> reporter: she also says she wants real action, not gridlock. she said you'll bring more gridlock to washington. >> no, not at all. quite the contrary. we have too much gridlock right now. the idea that i can't work with republicans is nonsense. >> reporter: in iowa today, former president clinton stayed out of the democratic fight and focused on the other side. >> you cannot be lured by the politics and division and distraction. >> reporter: vice president joe biden had words of his own on the unruly gop race. >> we may be given a gift from
the lord in the presidential race here. >> reporter: but democrats have their own fight to contend with. sanders exploded in fury when a reporter said some clinton allies were concerned his campaign could recruit out of state young voters to iowa. >> this is a lie, an absolute lie. okay. we will win or we'll loose, we do it honestly. >> reporter: sanders did put one issue to rest, releasing a medical report from his doctor, saying the 74-year-old senator was in very good health. >> you say you're in very good health. how do you feel? >> i feel good. >> you're in good fighting form? >> thank god i am in very good health. >> reporter: so you see senator sanders right there in a good mood being asked about that. he's also in a good mood about his place in this race. it is very close here in iowa, no question. but in new hampshire he still is holding on to a substantial lead there. but jim, this whole conversation could change when it looks like the democrats are headed toward another debate next week and the potential of more in april and
may. so any thought that this contest was going to be a short one is probably not going to happen. this race could go on perhaps as long as it looks like the republican one may as well. >> more debates something the democratic party and hillary clinton had resisted before. jeff zeleny in iowa. coming up more, an ominous warning. the world health organization saying the zika virus is spreading explosively. now more new cases are reported here in the united states. as one expert says, a vaccine could be as many as five years away. plus breaking just this hour. did north korea really test a hydrogen bomb this month as they initially claimed? we're getting the first results on cnn. the answer is not good. ibs-d. you know the symptoms when they start. abdominal pain. urgent diarrhea. now there's prescription xifaxan. xifaxan is a new ibs-d treatment that helps relieve your diarrhea and abdominal pain symptoms. and xifaxan works differently.
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breaking news now in our world lead, this coming in just in the last few moments. it is first on cnn. the u.s. now believes that north korea may have tried to test a hydrogen bomb earlier this month. i want to get straight to cnn's barbara star. she's at the pentagon. barbara, initially u.s. officials doubted that claim from north korea. what are they learning now? >> jim, a story you and i have been following closely since january 6th when the north koreans conducted some type of test underground. at the time the u.s. dismissed the notion that it was a hydrogen bomb as the north koreans claimed. since then sampling of the air by u.s. spy aircraft has proved inconclusive. that has led them to go back and look at the seismic data, the
disturbance in the earth when this explosion happened. they now are looking at the notion it was very deep underground, two times more than they expected. that is consistent with some kind of hydrogen device. but the key here is while the north koreans claim it was a hydrogen bomb, the u.s. isn't so sure. they believe it is possible the north koreans tested some kind of component related to a hydrogen bomb, not a full-on device. nonetheless, extremely concerning because this does put north korea on a path that is a real leap ahead in their weapons of mass destruction. >> hydrogen bombs, tens, possibly hundreds of times stronger than atomic bombs. there's also growing fear that north korea is planning to launch another long-range missile, possibly an icbm in the next few days. what is the evidence that the u.s. intelligence is seeing that support that? >> well, we can show our viewers some of it from commercial satellite imagery of a launch
site in the northern part of north korea. this is a satellite launch facility. the imagery shows a good deal of activity at the site. the u.s. believes the north koreans are moving in people, equipment, even maybe fuel propellant. now here's the key. this is a site where everything is moved in out of visual range. it's all concealed until the last minute, until it goes on the launch pad. if there is a satellite on the top end of this, then it's a satellite launch. but if there is a warhead or some type of warhead device, then it's an intercontinental ballistic missile. either way, again, another step in north korea's march forward with its advanced weapons technology. it's extremely concerning to the u.s. jim. >> two concerning developments. barbara starr at the pentagon, thanks very much. we want to talk about this more. i'm joined by jamie metzel, a former national security council
official. so, jamie, first to this news about a step in the directions at least of a hydrogen bomb for north korea, in the hours, the days after this i spoke with u.s. officials, i played this down. they said initial indications were not. that is changing. how concerning a development, even if they haven't developed a complete hydrogen bomb, that they have taken a step in that direction, how concerning is that? >> it's all concerning. certainly that north korea is aspiring to develop a hydrogen bomb and to miniaturize it and make it deliverable is concerning and should be concerning for everybody. whether it was just a regular nuclear device or a boosted fission device that some people were talking about after january 6th or something more than that, the question is, is how far along this path are they, and they certainly are making big progress. whether this was a full hydrogen bomb or not, it's the directional issue that's most concerning. >> covering this issue, and i'm sure many of our viewers might
feel the same way, with north korea there were these incremental steps. they move a little bit closer, more successful nuclear tests. possibility of a hydrogen bomb. they're also launching a missile which could have intercontinental ability which means it could strike the u.s. and you've sat in on national security council meetings where the u.s. discusses responses to this. what is the straw that breaks the camel's back where the u.s., where china, where others decide we have to take action now to stop, to neutralize the north korean threat? >> that's the big problem, that the united states and china each have different triggers, if that's the right word. for the united states, this is becoming more and more alarming. what north korea is trying to do is build a missile that could attack -- could reach the united states. that doesn't mean they're going to nuke the united states tomorrow, it just means that they believe if they have a credible threat, that buys them some insurance. china is providing the lifeline to north korea. china is really the only country
right now at least that has the meaningful short-term ability to shut down north korea's nuclear program, but they're not willing to use that influence because they fear instability on their border and reunification of korea which would be alied with the united states. china and the united states each have different threat perceptions of what's happening in north korea. >> let me ask you this, it's a very basic question. at what point, and again you've sat in on those meetings. what level does the u.s. decide it has to take military action to destroy this program? >> well, i think that there's -- that there are many steps before military action. military action is very, very dangerous because once you strike north korea, you really have to just get rid of the regime because they have such convention a.al capabilities to wipe out the city of seoul really in minutes.
so long before any military action is taken against north korea, the united states has a lot of things that we can do. first on sanctions can be strengthened significantly, but second and most importantly we need to increase the cost to china of inaction. right now china is getting a free pass. but if the united states increases -- not only increases sanctions, but continues the rebalancing of military forces to asia, helps build missile defense systems in japan and south korea which china doesn't like, begins to have more exercises, supports the military normalization of japan, those are all things china will perceive as strategic costs to china and that will, i believe, encourage china to take action. >> jamie metzel, alarming developments, thanks for helping us understand them. spreading explosively. that's what the world health organization says about an entirely different threat, the zika virus. this as more cases are reported not only around the world but here in the united states. what's being done to stop its spread. that's next.
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welcome back to "the lead." more now on our world lead. two alarming warnings today from top health official its monitoring the zika outbreak. this is the virus that could expose pregnant women to something that causes deadly brain disorders in their babies. first today the world health organization says the outbreak is spreading, quote, explosively around the americas. it estimates at its current rate some 4 million people could contract the virus within just the next year. also today from the centers for disease control and prevention here in the u.s. now reporting 31 cases in the u.s., in 11 states, as well as the district of columbia. these are people who contracted
zika in other countries and traveled here to the u.s., but their virus has not yet spread beyond them. i want to bring in cnn chief medical correspondent sanjay gupta. dr. gupta, we've heard about the health effects to pregnant women and their babies, horrible. very basic question here, is the zika virus a significant danger to people who are not pregnant? >> it doesn't appear to be, jim. in fact most people, 75% to 80% of people will likely have either no symptoms or very few sto symptoms. there have been a few cases of guillon-barre but for the vast majority of people it doesn't appear to make them that sick. it's really the women who were pregnant. >> you have 31 cases in the u.s., principally people we're told who came here after travel to other countries, including in
south america. how quickly could this develop into an outbreak here in the u.s.. as i understand it. one mosquito bites a carrier and that mosquito carries it to someone else. how quickly could this spread? >> all the cases, first of all, 31 cases were from other countries and people came back here so there's been no transmission within the united states as of yet. it could happen where you get another person who contracts a case in the united states that hasn't traveled, is getting it from someone within the united states. but what we're hearing and i think the past history with other similar sorts of illnesses reflects this, it's unlikely to start spreading with any degree of significant severity. you could have some local outbreaks, but just simple things in the united states versus these heavily urbanized areas where this is spreading more rapidly in south america. screens on windows make a difference, air conditioning makes a difference. it seems less likely to spread here in the united states.
dengue fever would be a similar example. huge numbers of cases around the world. you get intermittent pockets in the united states but it hasn't spread at least widespread in the united states. >> you look at the map of the countries most affected by this and these are countries that a lot of americans travel to. what are health officials recommending to pregnant women? >> well, it's been interesting. and these are some recommendations from the native countries that frankly i hadn't heard before, one of them being, i'm sure you heard, jim, in el salvador saying don't get pregnant and don't get pregnant for two years, which is a bit of arbitrary advice. brazil has suggested delaying pregnancy. i had a chance to talk to the deputy director for the cdc about this, someone overseeing this and asked is that good advice? is that advice the cdc would agree with? take a listen. >> you may remember during the influenza pandemic in 2009 we saw very serious complications
of influenza in pregnant women. we saw pregnant women die, we saw them lose their babies, we saw them have critical illnesses. we urged people to take precautions and get prompt treatment of influenza but we didn't advice against getting pregnant. >> even in the past when there's been situations of concern, and certainly it's frightening, but the advice to not get pregnant is not something the cdc is certainly advising, nor would they recommend it if there were cases in the united states. >> just remarkable to hear that in countries affected. sanjay gupta, thanks very much. and i do want to note before we go that in about five minutes, sanjay diwill answer your questions about the zika virus on our facebook page. really a worthy conversation on this. still no sign of three dangerous prison escapees, including one dubbed hannibal lecter. now new arrests connected to this case. were they helped from the outside. and in our national lead,
how the federal government actually placed several children right in the hands of human traffickers, and what's being done to stop this from happening again. hi i'm heather cox on location with the famous, big idaho potato truck. our truck? it's touring across america telling people about idaho potatoes. farmer: let's go boy. again this year the big idaho potato truck is traveling the country spreading the word about heart healthy idaho potatoes and making donations to local charities. excuse me miss, have you seen our truck? you just missed it. ahhh! aw man are you kiddin' me?
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welcome back to "the lead." none of us have been as happy to go back to work as this guy today. after iran stole 545 days of his life from him, "the washington post" reporter jason rezaian helped to open up the paper's brand new headquarters here in washington today. an emotional secretary of state was also there as jason thanked "the post" for helping to keep his story alive. >> for much of the 18 months i was in prison, my iranian interrogators told me that "the washington post" did not exist, that no one knew of my plight, and that the united states government would not lift a finger for my release. today i'm here in this room with the very people who helped prove the iranians wrong in so many ways.
>> in the military, as you all know, and in other dangerous callings, the most sacred pledge that you can make is to never leave a buddy behind. like most pledges, it's a lot easier to say than to do. >> tears all around there today. rezaian was jailed by iran almost a year and a half. he was released as part of a prisoner swap between the united states and iran. before that moment, he was held in such isolation from the rest of the world, he says he never knew that he had become a worldwide story. now to our national lead. they fled the united states seeking freedom and safety, but instead found pain and despair, forced into child slave labor. that has been the terrible reality for some of the tens of thousands of children who enter the u.s. illegally and alone every year.
in 2014 several children ended up working and living in these deplorable conditions in a slave labor ring in ohio. and now a six-month senate investigation, bipartisan, says the federal government delivered the minors into the hands of their captors. the investigation also found that the government does little to prevent other children from being exploited in the same way. ohio senator rob portman headed the investigation. he joins us now. senator, i imagine people at home are just trying to figure out how this could have happened. in the simplest terms, how did the u.s. help or allow these children to end up as slave laborers? >> people are outraged. they opened up their morning paper about seven months ago in ohio and saw that a u.s. government agency had placed kids with criminals and traffickers. senator claire mccaskill and myself took on this investigation. it is bipartisan and also outrageous that this is happening. frankly, health and human
services and the offices of refugee resettlement have not taken the steps necessary to address this so it doesn't continue to happen. >> the numbers we see are six to eight, sing 'em digile digits, also told they don't know for sure. >> it's six to eight who were part of a case that was brought and indictments that were actually done by our u.s. attorney in northern ohio. but, no, there's a lot more than that. unfortunately -- >> hundreds? >> i think so. they don't have good numbers for this. there's also instances, as you know, not just of child labor but also sexual abuse and other cases because they aren't doing the right screening to know where these kids are going. they're sending these kids not to their parents or family members but people who say they're friends of the family but they don't check that. they don't check the homes before they go like you would in foster care and not doing the follow-up visit. it's just the basics they're not doing. as a result you have these tragic circumstances as what
happened in ohio. these kids were working 12 hours a day, seven days a week. their paychecks were going to the traffickers so they weren't getting paid for those terrible work conditions. you just saw the photograph of the trailer where they were living. they were living with multiple adults. mattresses even underneath the trailer for some of the kids, so deplorable living conditions. this just can't happen in ohio in the 21st century. >> and they must have just felt so helpless. they're illegals here so it's not like they can go to the authorities and say help me out. >> according to the indictment, they were threatened and their families were threatened and they were living in fear. >> this caught my eye that as part of your investigation you found that hhs, department of health and human services, they knew they had a problem. even when they were alerted to the evidence, they didn't act immediately to stop, is that right? >> they still haven't in a sense. we had testimony today from hhs still not taking responsibility for this. you know, frankly they were overwhelmed with the surge of
kids coming in. they had the funding to do it, by the way. they gave back 20% to 25% of their funding, but they did not put the systems in place to keep this from happening. again, just the basic checks on who these people were, who they were giving these kids to, how the kids were doing. make sure they didn't have criminal histories and if they did to ban them. until this week, jim, there was no criminal record that was bad enough to automatically say you're not going to send that kid there. so you can be sending these kids to child molesters, rapists, murderers for that matter. finally this week they did say, yeah, there are some crimes that are so bad we're not going to send those kids to those people. >> to say the least. i have to ask what happens next for these kids? so you find out about them, you get them out of there. do they stay in the u.s.? do they have to go back? they came in illegally, are they deported? >> these are kids who came in illegally, unaccompanied miles per hours. the idea is you put them into this hhs detention facility, a
shelter, and find them somewhere to go, a home, while their immigration case is pending. what's happened, unfortunately, is again they have a lot of kids coming in. they aren't being careful as to who these kids go to. frankly a bunch of the kids are not showing up at their hearings. part of the problem is they're sending some of these kids actually to illegals themselves who don't want to show up at a hearing, so the whole system needs to be looked at. >> goodness. you feel for them. thanks for looking into it. senator rob portman. a criminal so dangerous and scary that he's been known as hannibal lecter, and he's still on the run. new information about how he escaped jail with two other accused criminals. that's right after this break. these are the hands that build the machines, the machines that sort, stack and seal. these are the hands that keep private information private. these are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. these are the hands that dig for opportunity,
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california last friday. but there is still no sign of the three extreme ly violent inmates. the third escapy is facing kidnapping and torture charges for allegedly burning a man with a blow torch and dismembering him. investigators believe that the escapees, two of whom have known gang ties, had help from the outside. let's get right to paul, who is live outside the jail in santa ana, california, that they escaped from. paul, what do we know about those that were arrested in connection with their escape? >> jim, they were all from the garden grove area and that is where the sheriff has gone on tv and radio, vietnamese tv and radio and implored the community to help find these violent criminals. in and around little saigon, authorities made a series of arrests, probation violations, outstanding warrants of associates of the two vietnamese
escapees. authorities released a new wanted poster that features identifying tattoos. >> you see a new poster here with a better picture of one of the escapees, bac duong, with numerous tattoos and a better picture for someone who may encounter him. >> the orange county sheriff has been harshly grilled over hossein nayeri who fled to the u.s. before. he was housed in the tank. that's a general inmate population area where he want consort with dozens of other prisoners. they called nayeri the breakout ring leader. he's charged with torture that includes rubber hoses, a blow torch and mutilation. >> based on his past, he's a little more sophisticated than the other two individuals, so that's a belief of mine. >> reporter: she vows changes to jail policies alluding to the
head check or body count. they got a huge jump by being eyeballed at the 5:00 in the morning check and not discovered missing until 9:00 p.m. new video reveals more about the inmates' path out, crawling in plumbing items before they climbed through an air duct, got on the roof and rappelled four stories to freedom. >> it's every sheriff's nightmare. you never wanting to have an escape from any jail. they do happen, and you certainly don't want maximum security prisoners who are a danger to the public to get out of your jail. so it's not a good day. >> the sheriff says they got help escaping from the outside an an investigation continues as to whether anyone assisted them inside. and they are still looking for whatever it was that they used to cut through metal inside that jail. back to you, jim. >> that is it for "the lead." i'm jim sciutto in for jake tapper. i turn it over to wolf blitzer
in "the situation room." happening now, donald's duel. tonight's primetime presidential debate, neither front-runner, donald trump nor fox news shows any signs of backing down. trump is getting ready to hold his own event. in a big surprise, some of his rivals say they're going to attend. fight night, if trump stays off the debate stage will the republicans establishment candidates concentrate their fire on him anyway, attack senator ted cruz, or keep up what critics of their own party are calling their circular firing squad. taken for granted. with the iowa caucuses days away, the democratic race is getting hotter and angrier than ever. susan sarandon is