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tv   Anderson Cooper 360 Post Debate Special  CNN  February 11, 2016 11:50pm-2:01am PST

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the most progressive agenda, it is about bringing tens of millions of people together to demand that we have a government that represents all of us and not just the 1% who today have so much economic and political power. thank you all very much. [ cheers and applause ] >> secretary clinton. >> we agree we've got to get unaccountable money out of politics. we agree that wall street should never be allowed to wreck main street again. but here's the point i want to make tonight. i am not a single-issue candidate and i do not believe we live in a single-issue country. i think that a lot of what we have to overcome to break down the barriers that are holding people back, whether it's poison in the water of the children of
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flint or whether it's the poor miners who are being left out and left behind in coal country, or whether it is any other american today who feels somehow put down and depressed by racism, by sexism, by discrimination against the lgbt community against the kind of efforts that need to be made to root out all of these barriers, that's what i want to take on. and here in wisconsin, i want to reiterate, we've got to stand up for unions and working people, the america's middle class who are being attacked by ideologues, by demagogues. yes, does wall street and big financial interests along with drug companies, insurance companies, big oil, all of it have too much influence, you're right. but if we were to stop that tomorrow, we would still have the indifference, the negligence
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that we saw in flint. we would still have racism holding people back. we would still have sexism preventing women from getting equal pay. we would still have lgbt people who get married on saturday and get fired on monday. and we'd still have governors like scott walker and others trying to rip out the heart of the middle class by making it impossible to organize and stand up for better wages and working conditions. i'm going to keep talking about tearing down all the barriers that stabbed in the way of americans fulfilling their potential, because i don't think our country can live up to its potential unless we give a chance to every single american to live up to theirs. >> thank you. thank you, senator clinton. thank you, senator sanders. we also want to thank our partners at facebook and our hosts here at the university of wisconsin milwaukee. and we want to thank our
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audience, our quiet audience here and all of you watching at home. thank you all. stay tuned for analysis of the debate and the overall race to the democratic nomination. that's coming up next here on pbs stations, online at pbs.org/newshour. >> i'm going to remain here in milwaukee tomorrow evening for a special edition of newshour here on pbs. >> i hope you join us tomorrow night. that's it for all of us here in milwaukee. >> good night. and good evening again. welcome to a late live edition of "360." the democratic candidates just wrapping up their debate in milwaukee. what a debate it was. in case you missed any of the best moments, we'll have highlights at the top of the hour in just a few minutes. right now i want to get a quick take from our panel. since it's been three hours
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since i've done their, david gergen, michael smerconish as well as gloria borger, john king, host of cnn's "inside politics." also with us to my left, the cnn political commentators paul begala, donna brazile, donna navarro, but friends with rubio. donna is a senior democratic official. >> which i can do tonight. >> and pro-clinton superpac. analyst, david gergen, you've seen a lot of these dea debates. what do you make of this one? >> i can't remember a candidate for the presidency who is more experienced and competent than hillary clinton was tonight. she was on top of the issues, she was very factual. i thought she won the arguments. i thought he did a better job at capturing the anger and the frustration in the country. i'm not sure which played out. i'm not sure it changed a lot of minds but i did think there was a real difference in debating style. >> michael smerconish?
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>> for the first hour and 45 minutes, i thought there was no blood drawn. it got very interesting at the end pertaining to bill press' book. you're going hear what he those say than. i thought he looked shaken after she laid out what she had to say. and i thought it was a pitch by secretary clinton to solidify her support in the african american community by saying this guy has not stood with barack obama. >> gloria? >> i think the person looming over this debate is president obama, completely. and what was interesting to me was the ways in which -- the multiple ways in which hillary clinton -- >> repeatedly. >> -- repeatedly tied herself to the president on the fact that he had a superpac and still went after wall street, on immigration, on obamacare, and on the fact that president obama picked her as secretary of state. and i think on the economic issues, as david was saying, i think bernie sanders really sort of cuts through. but on foreign policy, i think hillary clinton does. so i don't think it changed
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much. >> someone before the debate, john king, was saying that she was going to wrap herself in president obama. she certainly did that tonight, particularly at the end. >> and he has incredibly high ratings, among democrats across the country, and among african-americans. who will play first the democrats go to nevada and then to south carolina. she played the obama card and she played it hard. he played the kissinger card. we'll see how that plays out. >> that's going to get the millennials. >> all the young voters for bernie sanders googling who is henry kissinger, saying he doesn't take advice from henry kissinger. the conversation among democrats i've been checking with them during the debate is still making the point she had a very strong case on the policy issues. some of her friends and advisers who want her to get better as a candidate still think she's focuses too much on experience and past accomplishments and not as much on a narrative to look forward to the future. >> bill press, your book, which you give the title and also read the blurb that sanders also gave
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to the book. >> you want to do that right now? >> sure. >> the name of the book is "buyers remorse" -- >> which you can get at amazon for -- >> thank you. >> this is a nonissue but the clinton campaign can't seem to let go of it. the blurb, he did not write a forward to the book. he wrote a blurb. the blurb says what he says in every speech he gives, quote, bill press makes a case why long after taking the oath of office, the next president of the united states must keep rallying the people who elected him or her on behalf of progressive causes. that's the only way real change will happen. it's not a criticism of barack obama. my book is. bernie's blurb is not. so take it out on me, i ain't running for president yet. >> paul begala, what did you think tonight? >> before the debate, we said look, bernie is a message machine, and he is. i think so he runs a risk of becoming the marco rubio butt of
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my party. to paraphrase joe biden, every sentence was a noun, a verb and wall street. hillary played the type. she is the walk. she is the studious one. she seemed to know bernie's record on health care better than bernie did, bernie's plan. you could tell. you could see his eyes sort of glazing over. actually, it was 40%. she knew the details of bernie's policies better than ever. but he keeps coming back with that overarching message. >> turns out i think he doesn't like wall street. >> donna? what did you make of it? >> it was a very spirited debate. i liked much of the exchange. if you walked into the room tonight for the first time and it wasn't the donald trump show, you had an opportunity to listen to two candidates who offered a vision for the future on immigration, homeowner, jobs, criminal justice reform, et cetera. that said, if you're an undecided voter in south carolina, nevada, tonight you walked into the room and you said you know what? i like what hillary said on this, but i liked the passion that bernie gave on that. i think it was great but i want
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to tell you, i take issue with bill press' book but i won't do that right now. >> anna novarro? >> you know, i thought this was a political junkie's and nerds, wonks' debate. there was very little personality. there was very little multidimension to them when they were speaking. it was very policy oriented. a lot of substance, a lot of meat particularly in hillary clinton's answers. very little personal anecdote, personal stories, including about themselves. >> we are just about at the top of the hour. if you are just joining us or you just watched parts of the debate i want to take a moment to welcome any viewers who are just joining us now. if you watch, you saw a sharp but civil exchange of views between the two candidates. if you didn't, we're want to show you some of the highlights of the debate, the most important moments in an extended look. take a look. >> in my case, whether it's health care or getting us to debt-free tuition or moving us toward paid family leave, i have been very specific about where i
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would raise the money, how much it would cost and how i would move this agenda forward. i believe i can get the money that i need by taxing the wealthy, by closing loopholes, the things that we are way overdo for doing. i think once i'm in the white house, we will have another enough political capital to be able to do that. >> secretary clinton, you are not in the white house yet. let us be clear every proposal i have introduced has been paid for. >> when it comes to the issues that are really on the front lines as to whether we're going to have equal pay, paid family leave, some opportunity for, you know, women to go as far as their hard work and talent take them, i think that we still have some barriers to knock down, which is why that's at the core of my campaign. i would note just for an historic aside, somebody told me earlier told we've had like 200 presidential primary debates, and this is the first time there
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have been a majority of women on the stage. so, you know, we'll take our progress wherever we can find it. >> senator, do you worry at all that you will be the instrument of thwarting history as senator clinton keeps claiming that she might be the first woman president? >> well, you know, i think from an historical point of view, somebody with my background, somebody with my views, somebody who has spent his entire life taking on the big money interests, i think a sanders victory would be of some historical accomplishment as well. we are looking at an economy in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and sadly in america today in our economy, a whole lot of those poor people are african american. >> so race relations would be better under a sanders presidency than they have been? >> absolutely.
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what we will do, instead of giving tax breaks to millionaires, we are going to create millions of jobs for low income kids so they're not hanging out on street corners. we're going to make sure that those kids stay in school or are able to get a college education. >> i debated then senator obama numerous times on stages like this. and he was the recipient of the largest number of wall street donations of anybody running on the democratic side ever. now, when it mattered, he stood up and took on wall street. he pushed through and he passed the dodd-frank regulation, the toughest regulations since the 1930s. so let's not in any way imply here that either president obama or myself would in any way not take on any vested interest, whether it's wall street or drug companies or insurance companies or frankly the gun lobby to
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stand up to do what's best for the american people. [ applause ] >> but let's not insult the intelligence of the american people. people aren't dumb. why in god's name does wall street make huge campaign contributions? i guess just for the fun of it. they want to throw money around. >> we need to understand that american muslims are on the front line of our defense. they are more likely to know what's happening in their families and communities. they need to feel not just invited but welcomed within the american society. so when somebody like donald trump and others -- [ applause ] -- stirs up the demagoguery against american muslims, that hurts us at home. it's not only offensive, it's dangerous. and the same goes for overseas where we have to put together a
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coalition of muslim nations. i know how to did that. i put together the coalition that imposed sanctions on iran that got us to the negotiating table to put a lid on their nuclear weapons program. and you don't go tell muslim nations you want them to be part of a coalition when you have a leading candidate for president of the united states who insults their religion. >> in her book and in their last debate, she talked about getting the approval or support or mentoring of henry kissinger. now, i find it rather amazing because i happen to believe that henry kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country. i am proud to say that henry kissinger is not my friend. i will not take advice from henry kissinger. >> well, i know journalists have asked who you do listen to on foreign policy and we have yet to know who that is. >> well, it ain't henry kissinger, that's for sure. >> that's fine, that's fine.
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>> henry kissinger is not in the hall. jeff zeleny is. he joins us now. sanders and clinton, jeff, really laying out their difference, in stark details throughout this debate. >> they sure did, anderson. henry kissinger was not on the stage, as he said, neither was barack obama. but he certainly hung in this room, in this auditorium. both candidates are on the verge of leaving this stage after shaking hands for quite a long time. senator sanders even jumped into the crowd at one point. anderson, i was struck by near the end of the debate there when secretary clinton really wanted to make clear that she is the protector of the obama legacy. that is for one reason -- south carolina. she might as well have called out south carolina, are you listening, listen to me right now. that's when that was about. because the south carolina primary in about two weeks time here is going to be key for her, particularly among african-american voters, where some 55% of the democratic electorate in 2008 were african-american voters, that is
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her key point here. i think it was a civil debate throughout the course of the evening. a little slower in speed and tempo, a little bit more cerebral but contentious throughout the debate. i think if you came into this debate a senator sanders fan, you certainly walked away a senator sanders fan and vice versa on the other side of this. i don't think this moved the ball much at all. i was texting with a few supporters on both sides. i think it did put some clinton supporters and donors at ease here. this is a good moment for her when she's on this debate stage. certainly much better than the last time. we saw her in public view when she was trying to give a speech after she lost by some 22 points in new hampshire. i do think this resets the race in the short term but it goes on from here to nevada in nine days and then south carolina in the week following after that. i think it's pretty much a jump ball, anderson. >> jeff, are they heading now to nevada?
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>> they are going to be campaigning throughout the weekend in nevada. actually, she will be campaigning tomorrow quickly in south carolina and then flying to nevada. so that is the next stop. but this race now goes nationally. there are plenty different places to pick out pockets of support, particularly in those march states. senator sanders has a lot of support in minnesota. he'll be there tomorrow evening, in colorado. this race is going to go across the country in rapid fashion. i'm told senator sanders is going to michigan next week to flint. of course he's following on the heels of her visit there last week. so this campaign is about to intensify. but they certainly have a lot of money, both of them. the clinton campaign hopes this can raise money off of tonight's debate because they believe she had a good showing. anderson? >> jeff zeleny, thanks very much. back now with our panel. paul, on the money front, obviously with the pro-clinton
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superpac, senator sanders has raised a lot of money post new hampshire. do you know how hillary clinton's campaign is doing? >> i don't, i don't. because i don't have any contact with them. she is raising plenty of money. so is bernie. >> you don't think money is an issue for either one of them moving forward? >> no. >> but that's significant, really, to think that bernie sanders has raised so much money, all of it from small grassroots donations. the average is $27. and where the clinton campaign has complained where they feel they may be outspent by bernie sanders. who would have thunk that bernie could put together that financial operation. it's very impressive. >> has not spent money. we attacked ted cruz once or twice. who basically stayed out of the primaries. and the nurses pac which endorsed senator sanders. he doesn't control them. the nurses have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and a karl rove right-wing pack has been attacking hillary clinton, presumably with wall street money. i don't think karl is raising me his known in $27 donations. the super pac money that's been spent on the democratic side has helped bernie far more than it's helped hillary.
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>> bernie -- >> not by his asking. >> my point is just bernie does not have a super pac. >> the nurses -- >> if i could finish. every dollar he has raised, the only point i'm making,:00, has been from grassroots donations. end of it. i'm not attacking you or anybody else. i'm just stating a fact. >> he started out as the p.t. boat against an aircraft carrier. the fact that he is financially competitive is a remarkable story. what it tells you is this campaign is going to go on for a long time. as long as the clinton-obama race? we don't know. but it's going to go on for a long time. you can see there's a disbelief and you see it in her face sometimes and up hear it when you talk to clinton people. there is such a sense of disbelief that wow, this is real. they did not take bernie sanders seriously at the beginning and now they understand they have a race. >> i want to hear from gloria in a second. i want to play the sound bite when they were talking about the superpacs during the debate because it was a point of contention. listen. >> i debated then senator obama
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numerous times on stages like this. and he was the recipient of the largest numbers of wall street donations of anybody running on the democratic side ever. now, when it mattered, he stood up and took on wall street. he pushed through and he passed the dodd-frank regulations, the toughest regulations since the 1930s. so let's not in any way imply here that either president obama or myself would in any way not take on any vested interest, whether it's wall street or drug companies or insurance companies or frankly the gun lobby to stand up to do what's best for the american people. >> well, let's not -- but let's not -- let's not insult -- let's not insult the intelligence of the american people. people aren't dumb. why in god's name does wall street make huge campaign
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contributions? i guess just for the fun of it. they want to throw money around. when we talk about wall street, you have wall street and major banks have paid $200 billion in fines since the great crash. no wall street executive has been prosecuted. >> gloria borger, this is one of the areas you mentioned where she switched the super pacs to focus on obama. >> that was so clever. that was really smart, and he had a great answer to it, which was let's just be honest here. why do you think they're giving money? they're giving money because they want something back. again, she kept finding a way to bring up president obama. and that helps her in south carolina and those are the voters she was talking to tonight. at the end of this debate i think she drew a little blood. >> that was particularly interesting at the end. it was one of those sort of general questions like what world leaders and when leaders in america do you most admire?
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she named fdr and mandela but quickly pivoted to mentioning president obama and attacking sanders. >> of course. and this is where she draws blood. >> let's play that and then we'll talk about it more. >> today senator sanders said president obama failed the presidential leadership test in is not the first time he has criticized president obama. in the past he called him weak, he's called him a disappointment. he wrote a foreword for a book that basically argued voters should have buyers remorse when it comes to president obama's leadership and legacy. i just couldn't agree -- disagree more with those kinds of comments. the kind of criticism that we've heard from senator sanders about our president i expect from republicans. i do not expect from someone running for the democratic nomination to succeed president obama. >> that is -- madam secretary,
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that is a low blow. last i heard, we lived in a democratic society. last i heard a united states senator had the right to disagree with the president, including a president who has done such an extraordinary job. so i have voiced criticism, you're right. maybe you haven't. i have. but i think to suggest that i have voiced criticisms, this blurb that you talk about, the blurb said that the next president of the united states has got to be aggressive in bringing people in to the political process. that's what i said. that is what i believe. >> calling the president weak, calling him a disappointment, calling several times that he should have a primary opponent when he ran for reelection in 2012, you know, i think that goes further than saying we have our disagreements. as a senator -- yes, i was a senator.
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i understand we can disagree on the path forward, but those kinds of personal assessments and charges are ones that i find particularly troubling. >> you may respond to that but it time now for closing statements and you can use your time for closing statements to do that. >> well, one of us ran against barack obama. i was not that candidate. >> david gergen. >> one had the sense that she was waiting to use that, to drop that grenade right at the end and it intruded right in a his closing statement. so he couldn't make an eloquent, positive, upbeat closing statement. i thought it was very shrewd. >> i thought it strange the moderators called the time. maybe they were up against. >> why didn't they give them time to finish that conversation. >> they had an extra five minutes. i don't know why they decided to -- it was probably the best part of the debate to shut it down. it was an odd thing. >> it was very interesting to me to see how closely she tried to wed herself to president obama.
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in a way that i don't remember in any of the prior democratic debates that we've had relative to iowa or new hampshire. and from his part, from the opening gun, if you'll remember his very first response, i think it was about the prison population. and he tried to establish sentences for those who do pot for those who are white versus those who are african american. the point being this was all about cultivating support for people of color from the get-go. >> i think hillary clinton kind of on the obama point again criticized bernie sanders for getting personal about president obama when what he had said in a television interview was that he didn't exhibit the kind of leadership to connect congress with the american people or whatever it was. but she sort of made the point that he was personal with the president and i think that plays well with a lot of the president's supporters. >> i don't know if she can connect all of the dots. but there is something out there
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in terms of the president's support he has maintained throughout his presidency with african-american voters. a lot of democratic supporters. i also think the hispanic community and i think african-americans have witnessed over the last seven years the most gratuitous, vile attacks on the president challenging his birth certificate, putting what i call barriers every day before his path, holding up his nominations and not even this week allow him to present his budget. i think black voters look at these candidates and say where are you in terms of president obama? and tonight hillary clinton made it clear she's going to stand with the president. and i think bernie sanders to his credit, because try to be fair and neutral, bernie sanders has also pointed out that he stood with the president on many issues. but this is a big issue, a big litmus test.
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>> you also said up thought or you hoped someone would talk about unions. hillary clinton definitely gave a nod to that in wisconsin and it played certainly very well in that room. >> absolutely. thank you, you know i'm going to read your book at some point. union democrats, especially in nevada and other places that is correct is a large chunk of the electorate for democrats and a large chunk of the delegates. i think speaking about what's happening in wisconsin, raising wages, a collective bargaining, she smart to do that and smart to reach out to labor unions. >> she did more than just that. she also went after scott walker, who is one of the most hated men amongst unions, particularly in wisconsin. she was very local. she mentioned dontrae hamilton, another tragedy that is also in the news and is a wisconsin-based tragedy. i think she was much better than he was in making it local and more poignant. >> let's play where she talks about scott walker just to give your viewers in case they missed
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it a sense of ha what ana is talking about. >> i think again both of us share the goal of trying to make college affordable for all young americans. and i've set forth a compact that would do just that for debt-free tuition. we differ, however, on a couple of key points. one of them being that if you don't have some agreement within the system from states and from families and from students, it is hard to get to where we need to go. and senator sanders' plan really rests on making sure that governors like scott walker contribute $23 billion on the first day to make college free. i'm a little skeptical about your governor actually caring enough about higher education to make any kind of commitment like that. >> it was a clever way to sort of address the criticism that she has had of bernie sanders, which is how are you actually going to get these things done? she was using this specific example of scott walker, you're going to need his cooperation. >> it also showed her experience and skill.
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she's a master debater. she's brilliant on that stage, i believe. overall i loved the debate in the sense that it was substantive. it was civil. they differed. they didn't call each other names. and i think bernie has really improved as a debater on the stage as we've seen him, much more command of the issues and his presence there. i love the split screen. she showed with the mention of scott walker, early on when she talked about the labor unions and everything, she knew her audience, she knew where she was, she identified with them. that was one of her real strengths. where i thought she failed a little bit, at the beginning she comes across sometimes as a wet blanket where bernie is saying we can have free community college, we can do this. we can have universal care. then hillary has to come along and say oh, no, no we can't. sort of like yes, we can. and she says, no, we can't.
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i think that's a problem for her. >> she didn't do that much tonight. >> she did at least on health care and on community college. >> she didn't talk as much about, sorry, you can't get that done. she talked about the math, she said the numbers don't add up. but i think her tone was pitch perfect tonight. because, you know, she didn't sort of chide him in any way and say, wait a minute, i'm experienced, i know, you can't do this. she just challenged him on his math and on how you would pay for things, for example. but it was a different tone for her and, by the way, also from bernie sanders. i thought he was kind of subdued. he seemed to be coughing a little. i wasn't sure if he was feeling great, but both of them seemed to kind of master their tone a little bit better. >> i think bill is absolutely right. i remember after the first debate which, anderson, you moderated in las vegas where we were talking to the bernie sanders folks, he came unprepared, he thought he could do this off the cuff.
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just impromptu. the bernie sanders tonight came prepared, knew her immigration record, few how to go at her on stuff on central america and the children on the border. this was a much different debater, bernie sanders than we've seen. >> it would be interesting to watch that first debate versus this debate to see how they have evolved. clearly the attacks have gotten much sharper. it's a lot easier now that there are just two candidates. you don't have jim webb and lincoln chafee, who -- >> and martin o'malley. i'm sorry. yes, i did forget him. i remembered lincoln chafee. i don't know how that happened. back with everyone shortly. we're going to have a lot more with our panel. just ahead, we're going to be trying to talk with some of the top supporters for each candidate who were there, top officials in their campaigns. a trip inside the spin room coming up. also, we'll focus on the voters of south carolina who watched this debate closely as their primary approaches. we'll hear what women there in
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south carolina thought about what they saw tonight.
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welcome back. the first democratic debate since the new hampshire earthquake. brianna keilar is in the spin room. brianna? >> hi there, anderson. i'm here with the chairman of hillary clinton's campaign. give us your assessment. you think your candidate did very well. tell what's you think. >> i thought she was terrific tonight. i thought that from beginning to end it was a very powerful
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opening and a very powerful close. she really talked about the fact that she wanted to break down all the barriers holding americans back, to let them live up to their full potential so america could live up to its potential. and i thought this was a wide ranging debate tonight that covered a lot of topics. i think again she showed that she was the person ready to be commander in chief but on the core issues that about raising wages, making the right investments, having serious plans, making promises that you can keep, i thought she was really, really strong tonight, one of her strongest performances, maybe the strongest performance. i was a little surprised that, you know, we got -- senator sanders sort of seemed to move in to territory that he hadn't occupied. >> like what?
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>> my head snapped when he he said he would absolutely be better at race relations in america than president obama and better on human rights than ted kennedy, better on women's rights than hillary clinton. i thought that, you know, maybe the success in new hampshire is getting to him a little bit. >> it did seem that hillary clinton's tack here was to accuse bernie sanders of overpromising and promising things that he can't deliver. is that an approach that you think people will really connect with? >> i think what she was really saying was you've got to level with people. you've got to show what your plans really are and hold them up to scrutiny. i think when you do that, then things begin to get a little built shaky. they agree on a lot of goals. they agree that we need to get to universal coverage. they agree that college needs to be affordable for everyone. with you when you get a college
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plan that requires governors like scott walker here in wisconsin to pony up a lot of money in order to produce it, i think that's a promise that, you know, is not going to be fulfilled, at least in wisconsin. and i think on health care he still can't explain the numbers that he's putting forward. he makes very big claims -- >> all points that she made in the debate. i want to ask you about something on immigration, which is key going into the nevada caucuses. bernie sanders said he owe post opposed the 2007 immigration overhaul, which ultimately failed, and he did not support, and he cited latino groups, immigration advocates. and yet at the time he really sided with labor on that. did she miss an opportunity to call him out? intercontinental. >> well, look, i think she did call him out on voting against it when it was a really important opportunity to move
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forward with comprehensive immigration reform. that was a bill that was led by and drafted by ted kennedy. i know that senator sanders said it was tantamount to slavery, but ted kennedy was not going to put a bill on the floor that was going to produce that result. it was a real chance to get comprehensive immigration reform. senator sanders voted against it. basically at the beginning of this campaign he was saying that immigration was taking jobs away from people. you know, he's changed his tune in recent day, and particularly as we head into nevada. but i think that, you know, he has to answer for that vote. i think it was the wrong vote. >> thank you so much for talking to us, john podesta, the chairman of hillary clinton's campaign. anderson, back to you. >> thanks. as hillary clinton and bernie sanders squared off tonight, our gave tuchman watched the group. south carolina's democratic primary is just over two weeks away. gary joins me now. tell me about the group you were with.
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>> well, anderson, our polling continues to show that older women are favoring hillary clinton. the youngest women are favoring bernie sanders. we thought it would be interesting to gather women of all ages in the state of south carolina where the next important primary is. hello, ladies. >> hi! you may seem some men. let it be known these are interlopers. they are not going to be talking. it's only the women who are going to be talking. and that's a fact. that's what we're going to have to do today. just talk to the women, all ages. we have not a scientific sampling here because the first 20 rsvps who came in we allowed inside here to talk to us. so there are more bernie sanders supporters or hillary clinton supporters or undecideds. how many of you thought there was a good debate for the democratic party? [ cheering and applause ] >> and i need to ask you this. are any of you changing your minds? are any of the hillary clinton supporter changing their minds after watching the debate? >> no. >> are any of the bernie sanders supporters changing their mind? >> no. >> so we haven't changed any
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minds here. is anybody considering a republican after all of this? >> no! >> this is the molly darcy restaurant and bar by the way in charleston, south carolina that has allowed us in. you're a bernie sanders supporter. >> i am. >> your name? >> i'm laura schroeder. >> tell us what you thought the strongest part of the debate was. i thought bernie nailed it on campaign reform. i thought hillary bobbed and weaved about the whole campaign reform stuff. >> you feel stronger about bernie sanders? >> i do. i feel even better that he really represents himself as a strong presidential candidate. he acted presidential. and i think he represents himself really well. >> okay. we're going to come up here. i believe this woman, i can tell by the "h" on her shirt that she's a hillary clinton supporter. and your name? >> anne osborne kilpatrick. >> that's a long name. >> yes, it is. >> we'll remember that. tell me, do you feel stronger about hillary clinton after the debate?
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>> i do. >> tell me why. >> i am appreciative that bernie sanders entered the race to address issues. but i think hillary clinton was a wonderful debater. >> you can look at me, not into the camera. the camera is going to make you nervous. >> but you thought she did a good job? >> yes, i thought she did an excellent job. >> you came in undecided. let me ask you a question. i sat near you. i was watching your face because i wanted to see how this debate affected you. who are you ready to vote for in the south carolina primary? >> i'm not ready yet. >> you're not ready yet? this convince you'd of nothing? >> well, it actually helps me to see bernie in a different perspective. i actually -- it drew my attention to him a little more on his platform. >> you're on a first name basis with him now? >> we go way back, way back. i'm looking into this campaign through everybody's narrative from my position as an african
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american woman who is a businesswoman, owner action mother and someone who also takes care of my mother and she takes care of me. i just a very global perspective of where my vote is going to go people listening to their narrative. >> who do you think won the debate? who do you think did better? >> i think bernie did. i really did. >> reporter: i have one more question for you, would any of you like to see michael bloomberg jump in the race? >> no. >> how about one more question. what about joe biden if he changed his mind again? >> no! >> these are your two candidates. okay. once again, the south carolina democratic primary two weeks from saturday. the republican primary one week from saturday. anderson, back to you. >> bernie, bernie! >> bernie! >> thank the women and the interlopers for joining us for that to get their perspective. >> that looks like the party at anderson cooper and andy cohen. >> maybe. it's interesting. it does sort of revalidate what a lot of you were saying earlier
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that you don't this really changed anybody's opinion. it merely solidified sides. >> debates are almost never won, they're lost. it may not even be fair but there was a moment, the beginning of the debate, which means it's more likely to be a moment. frankly, we use sound bites out of the first 30 minutes more than the last 30 minutes when bernie sanders turned to hillary and said "you're not in the white house yet." and a lot of people found it on twitter, and it struck me as well it sounded condescend iing that's going to hurt senator sanders. that's going to lead the news tomorrow morning. >> some are comparing it to when senator said you're not likeable now. >> in my case, whether it's health care or getting us to debt-free tuition or getting us to paid family leave, i've been very specific about where i would raise the money, how much it would cost, and how i would move this agenda forward. there is a great deal of skepticism about the federal government. i'm aware of that.
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it comes from the right, the left, people on all sides of the political spectrum. so we have a special obligation to make clear what we stand for, which is why i think we should not make promises we can't keep because that he will further i think alienate americans from understanding and believing we can together make some real changes in people's lives. i believe i can get the money that i need by taxing the wealthy, by closing loopholes, the things that we are way overdue for doing. i think once i'm in the white house, we'll have enough political capital to be able do that. >> well, secretary clinton, you're not in the white house yet. and let me be clear that every proposal i have introduced has been paid for. i will do away with the outrageous loopholes that allow profitable, multi-national corporations to stash billions
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of dollars in the cayman islands and bermuda and in a given year pay zero -- zero in federal income taxes. yeah, i'm going to away with that. >> bill press is a sanders supporter and the guy who cowrote the book with senator sanders. i'm kidding. it was a blurb, just the blurb. >> actually, i did the blurb. bernie wrote the book. i must say, i reacted very negatively when she said once i'm in the white house. because she's -- i thought she should have said if i'm lucky enough to get in the white house or if i'm president. >> men say that all the time. when i'm president, blah blah blah. >> i'm just telling you my reaction. bernie probably should not have given that little smart ass report. but it is similar enough to what barack obama said. you're likable enough, hillary. he has been president for seven years. david axelrod, that was a brutal time for their campaign.
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>> double-digit lead collapsed. >> from that moment? >> yes. >> but then hillary actually committed humanity for one of the brief moments in the campaign. she showed a little humanity. >> passion. >> we're discussing this exchange as one of the toughest exchanges from this debate. just five days ago we saw chris christie go at marco rubio like a pinata and swing at him, crack him like a clay pot and all the candy spilled out. >> donald trump keeps a mocking tone. but the difference in tone. it was -- >> it was civil. >> it was a civil knife fight. it was aggressive. >> you asked the question before if this was good for the democratic party. i think it was. look, one of those two is going to be the nominee. whomever it ends up being is going to be a better debater. >> that statement didn't hang with me the way that it hung with some others on the panel. the takeaway for me was it was another example of her saying without trying to be a buzz kill, you're just not realistic. we'd all like to have the sort of things you're aiming for.
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it struck me early on in the evening, she said, he wouldn't give a figure, but she said the government would grow by 40%. i thought that was a key moment. >> a couple of key points there. when she said the government was going to grow 40%, and he let that go, and he let that dangle and never responded to it, it was like whoa. 40 sprs a huge increase. and she had -- she came back and said my program is going to cost $100 billion a year. it turns out the critics of her program have been saying it's going to cost $100 billion a year. i thought she was smart to do that. she put it out there and she left him how much is your program going to cost? >> let play that for our viewers who may not remember it. >> i think that the best analysis that i've seen based on senator sanders' plans is that it would probably increase the size of the federal government by about 40%. but what is most concerning to me is that in looking at the plans, let's take health care, for example.
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last week in a cnn town hall, the senator told a questioner that the questioner would spend about $500 in taxes to get about $5,000 in health care. every progressive economist who has analyzed that says the numbers don't add up. and that's a promise that cannot be kept. this is not about math. this is about people's lives. >> i don't know what economist secretary clinton is talking to, but what i have said and let me repeat it. that yes, the family right in the middle of the economy would pay $500 more in taxes and get a reduction in their health care costs of $5,000. in my view health care is a right of all people, not a privilege and i will fight for that. >> based on every analysis that i can find by people who are sympathetic to the goal, the numbers don't add up and many people will be worse off than they are right now.
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>> final thought, senator. >> that is absolutely inaccurate. here is the reality, folks. there is one major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people. if, and here is the if, we have the courage to take on the drug company, and have the courage to take on the insurance companies and the medical equipment suppliers, if we do that, yes, we can guarantee health care to all people in a much more cost-effective way. >> it was interesting he didn't respond to the 40% bigger government and didn't put a price tag on it at all. >> that's right. and i thought that weakened him a bit. it underscores the fact that he's good at rallying people, but he still doesn't provide you the infrastructure of his thinking. you still don't come away with a sense of confidence that this is a real plan. it's a slam at the status quo,
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but are you really ready to govern? >> and here's where she was so smart. instead of just saying you're unrealistic, this can never happen, she said here's what mine will cost. let's take a look at our plans. her tone was so much better. see said mine would cost x. what about yours? so she didn't just bash him. she said i've looked at the specifics, people i trust who are interested in what you have to say -- >> progressive economists -- >> progressive economists and where are your numbers here? so she didn't have to bash him. >> i just have to say. i want to be the skunk at the lawn party on this panel. but i think he wins that argument on health care. he is saying that every american should have health care by right of birth. that's the vision, that's the promise, that's the goal. and every other country on the planet does except us. and why can't we? and then she keeps saying no you can't, no you can't, no you can't. i think it's a bad tone for her. >> it's not just going to be hillary the buzz kill.
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i think the press attention is now going to shift justifiably because bernie sanders just won a landslide victory in new hampshire. he's not just the insurgent who can get away anymore with these kind of grand promises. if hillary were making these promises as a frontrunner when she was one, we would say she's pandering. promises without price tags is pandering. it's not going to have to be hillary being the buzz kill anymore. now legitimately reporters are going to say -- >> he said how he was going to fay for it. >> he still didn't give an overall figure. or answer the question about how big the government is going to increase. there's a lot more ahead. we're going to talk to our panelists a lot more. we're speaking of numbers and whether they add up. tom foreman has a reality check if a moment. i think it landed last tuesday. one second it's there. then, woosh, it's gone. i swear i saw it swallow seven people. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪
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welcome back. we're covering the democratic debate in milwaukee. where the action has shifted from the stage to the spin room. let's go back to brianna keilar. she is with debbie wasserman schultz. >> thank you so much. chairwoman, i want to ask you what you thought about the tone of the debate. >> you know, i was really proud of both of our candidates. they did exactly what i as a party chair want to see from the democratic candidates for president, a robust, substantive deep dive on their vision and the issues that are important to americans and the direction that they would continue to take this country. i mean, they totally delivered
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on that. especially when it stands in stark contrast to what really has amounted to an insult fest that has been each of the republican debates. >> i noticed a little -- there was some finger wagging. a little feistiness. >> oh, yeah. it's a debate. that's what is supposed to happen. they got into it a little bit back and forth but instead of personal attacks, which is mostly what people remember from the republican debate, what they remember from ours are their differences and where they agreed on national security, health care, the economy, on continues to create jobs. that's what the voters want to happy and it's the respect the voters deserve from their candidates for president. >> did you think there was enough contrast to give democratic voter at real choice between two candidates? >> i think there was certainly contrast. but again, our differences
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between these two candidates are not on the goals, they're on the approaches. and they agree on a whole lot. and where they differ, it's on approach. >> i do want to ask you really quickly, our panel has some questions for you, but the super delegate process is getting attention now. this would give hillary clinton an advantage. what do you say to some voters, especially some of the young folks who say maybe the think the political process is already a little unfair. what do you say to them? >> don't worry. we had the same debate in 2008 and other previous elections. and ultimately in 2008 our convention unanimously supported, including at then senator clint's request, our party's nominee barack obama. a pledge delegate is what is earned in a primary in a caucus. an unpledged delegate is an elective official and a party leader. we make sure they are there so they don't have to be running against our party activists and we can enhance the diversity of our delegations, which is by the comparisons to the republicans, certainly a lot more diverse.
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>> we're so happy to you have here. we want to ask you even more questions. we'll go back to our panel now in d.c. >> congresswoman, it's gloria borger. i want to ask you about government tonight. hillary clinton said the bernie sanders plan would be an increase in government of 40% and she's proposing some things that would also grow the role of government. government right now, trusting government is at an all-time low. lots of people want to make people smaller and not increase it. what do you say to people in this country who are skeptical about enlarging the role of government? >> well, i think it's important that voters know that what democrats believe is that government isn't the solution to every problem but government can be a catalyst and we can use
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government to effectively help people make sure that if they work hard and they play by the rules, they'll have an opportunity to succeed. ensuring when it comes to education that the government can help make loans more affordable, which republicans oppose, and a number of republican candidates for president have actually voted against. making sure that we create a health care system like the affordable care act did, which was private sector based but in order to ensure we can make health care a right and not a privilege, the government had to actually push through legislation to require certain things so that everybody could have access to health care. so the republicans believe that you're on your own, we should take care of the wealthiest, most fortunate americans and if you're someone like ted cruz, it's okay to shut the government down and take us backwards. the contrast is very clear as to how we can effectively use government to help make people's lives better.
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yes? >> hi, congresswoman. it's michael smerconish with a question. >> hi. >> hi. >> today the state department served a subpoena on the clinton foundation. it a big story. yet tonight there were no questions on that subject. where secretary clinton has problems with the electorate in terms of honesty and trustworthiness, don't you think she would be better served if there were more questioning in a forum like tonight on that particular subject? >> i think the voters were so well served by the questions from judy and from gwen tonight because it allowed those candidates to talk about their vision for the country, build on how the progress we've made under president obama with 71 straight months of job growth and cutting the deficit by 3/4. that's ultimately how voters are
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going to decide who they want to vote for president. it's important we maximize opportunities to hear the candidates' vision for the direction they would take the country. >> but how does she overcome those hurdles unless there's more discourse in a setting like this? >> now come on, michael, you know it's not my responsibility nor appropriate for me to handicap the strategies or how each candidate on our side of the aisle would deal with things. what i have to do is make sure i get us ready to support our party's nominee. and certainly to point out the major flaws which are numerous on the republican side and provide a distinction between the direction that our candidates would take our country and the backwards direction that the republicans would. >> thank you, congresswoman. >> congresswoman schultz, thanks very much for joining us. >> you're welcome. >> debbie wasserman schultz. back with the panel now. i talked about this before the debate. we thought there would probably be a question about it given
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that it was so much in the news today. >> nothing on the speaking fees, nothing on the e-mail issue that i recall. but most importantly, i thought given that this story broke today and i'm cognizant of the fact that there a lot of charges made out there against both of the clintons that don't hold water. but i think this is a legitimate question that should have been asked of her. and it probably would be to her benefit to give her the opportunity to address it. i was surprised it didn't happen. >> i'm sure she was prepared with an answer. >> there was questions and debate about goldman sachs -- >> and senator sanders, didn't raise it, which i found interesting. >> did you think he would? >> sure, why not. both of them stayed away. >> finally, before the debate, i remember who, john king was going to get a machine gun. >> if that was q&a. >> that would be anybody's inclination. she just lost by 23 points.
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if you just landed you wouldn't have known that bernie won by 23 points. hillary's discipline here i thought was remarkable. i think you are seeing her recalibrating as she moves forward. she did not talk about me, me, me in my experience. she did not talk about the past and her president's term. she knew her plans and his plans better than bernie did and she just dissected the two different policy proposals. >> bernie came in prepared. i get all of his fund-raising materials. that's because i donate to both. he said he was prepared for the kitchen sink. and clearly, no one even brought in a dish towel. he could have brought up those questions that you raise, michael, but he didn't bring them up. i thought she could have brought up some stuff that would help give her an advantage over bernie. by and large it was spirited, it was civil but i thought at the end, we started to see some real disagreements. and next time i think it will get a little bit dirtier next time. >> that i can recall, the only
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question asked that was relevant to headlines we've read in the last week was the question about madeleine albright and gloria steinem. and the gender issue. and hillary clinton was obviously prepared to answer that question. i think she gave the right answer. judge me not on my gender but on my qualifications. and i was surprised that he didn't make the point about why he appeals to all these younger women. he kind of let it go. he let it be her answer, didn't get involved. >> let's look. >> to pick up on what paul was saying, it sort of came in tangentially. and bernie moved right away i thought very effectively. you know what the problem is? it's the whole campaign finance reform system. and bernie moved into -- why do you think they give this money, because they are want to le money around? i thought very effectively on that point. >> it was a very basic appeal to common sense. it makes sense to everybody. >> it wasn't an attack on her.
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let's this is a problem. >> let take one more quick break. we'll hear from the sanders campaign, more highlights, more highlight, fact check and conversation with the panel. that and more in our next hour of "360."
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hillary clinton and bernie sanders just two days after a big new hampshire primary night and big night for him and bruising one for her. we will look at the developments as they get ready for nevada and south carolina. the debate was a civil exchange. however, things got heated with the two clashing over president obama. take a look. >> today, senator sanders said president obama failed the leadership test. this is not the first time he has criticized president obama. in the past, he called him weak and disappointment. he wrote a foreward for a book that voters should have buyer's remorse with the president's leadership and legacy. i just couldn't disagree more with those kinds of comments. from my perspective, because i
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understand what president obama inherited, not only the worst financial crisis, but the anthithesis of what president obama has to take over and take us into the future. it is the kind of criticism we heard from senator sanders about our president, i expect from our republicans. i do not expect someone running for the democratic nomination to succeed president obama. [ applause ] >> that is, madam secretary, that is a low blow. last i heard we lived in a democratic society. last i heard, a united states senator had the right to disagree with the president, including a president who has done such an extraordinary job. so i have voiced criticism. maybe you haven't.
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i have. but i think to suggest that i have voiced criticism. this blurb you talk about. you know what the blurb said? the blurb said the next president of the united states has to be aggressive to bringing people in to the political process. that is what i said. that is what i believe. president obama and i are friends. as you know, he came to vermont to campaign for me when he was a senator. i worked for his re-election. his first election and his re-election. i think it is really unfair to suggest that i am not supportive of the president. i have been a strong ally with him on virtually every issue. do senators have the right to disagree? have you ever disagreed with a president? i suspect you may have. >> senator, what i'm concerned about is not disagreement on issues saying this is what i would rather do, i don't agree
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with the president on that. calling the president weak, calling him a disappointment, calling several times he should have a primary opponent when he ran for re-election in 2012, you know, i think that goes further than saying we have our disagreements. yes, i was a senator. i understand we can disagree on the path forward. those kinds of personal assessments and charges are ones that i find -- >> senator, would you like to respond? >> one of us ran against barack obama. i was not that candidate. >> from the stage, the action moved into the spin room. we spoke with clinton campaign chairman john pedesto. we now have jeff weaver with brianna keilar. >> reporter: this is something i asked john. your assessment, i know you
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think your candidate won. what was your assessment of this debate and how it compared to other showdowns between these two? >> i thought there was a hard hitting contrast on the issues that were positive for the voters to see the differences with the candidates. dealing with wall street or foreign policy or immigration or the other issues they talked about tonight. i thought it was a good discussion of the issues for the voters to make the decision in the next few weeks. >> reporter: secretary clinton's accusation it toward bernie sanders is he is overpromising that he cannot deliver on. specifically health care. the senator's answer was look at canada. they pay less for health care. is that sufficient enough to make his case that people will be paying less for health care overall, but more in taxes? >> we handed out at the last debate our proposal which was
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scored by an independent academic. it is not like the numbers were generated by the sanders' campaign. those were from an outside expert. we can save money by going to a single payer health care system. the family of four making $50,000. they will net $5,000 a year in savings. >> reporter: i covered congress and i know numbers can be fudged a bit of course. what is your answer to that where people say it is going to cost a lot of money? >> in terms of fudging numbers, secretary clinton criticized sanders for not quote/unquote, paying for his programs. she proposed $900 billion in spending. there are 2/3 shy of paying for their programs. they say they pay for everything, but until they pay for everything, they have not paid for everything. >> reporter: lastly, when we spoke in new hampshire, i said
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are you going in nevada and you said we are going to try. has this changed? >> we are going to nevada. >> reporter: will you succeed? >> i'll let you know. >> reporter: jeff, thank you for joining us. anderson. >> thank you, brianna. plenty to talk about with our panel. i think hillary clinton will stop off and south carolina, but nevada is obviously the first battle for democrats coming up next for the republicans and south carolina. >> they are standing in milwaukee which is important down the road. important democratic state. union references about the scott walker fights. most of the debate from the get-go with immigration and criminal justice reform. you have latinos and african-americans that make 30% of the electorate. then south carolina where african-americans make up a majority. both candidates aware of that as they slug this out. look. it is one-to-one. hillary one iowa and bernie won
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new hampshire. this is the momentum phase. >> i think that may be why we heard the underside of voter in interview say bernie sanders spoken to her a bit more than hillary. i think the expectations on her with the obama coalition is much greater than what it is on bernie sanders. today, he made a point to practically bring back every domestic policy issue question to the race and minority question and to the woman issue. i think they both did a good job at not pandering and sticking to the issues and making arguments the issues. >> i think it was interesting she was asked about the historic nature of her candidacy and her ability to speak to young women in particular. it took the second answer for her to get it right. and coming back to bernie, he talked about the historic issues
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of his election and that's not something i heard him reference in the past. >> that is where he meant an opportunity. a lot of people don't know bernie sanders' story. he is from a little state. he could have really filled in the blanks. >> let's play the sound bites so you know what we're referencing. >> senator, do you worry at all of her claims she may be the first woman president? >> i think historically like somebody with my backgrounds and somebody with my views, somebody taking on the big money interest, i think the sanders victory would be an accomplishment as well. >> secularism on his sleeve.
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>> he is no joe lieberman. he doesn't like to talk about himself as you know. it doesn't come naturally. >> we asked about it at the town hall, he said he is a person of strong faith. >> that question on both of them on their faith at the town hall was remarkable. remarkable. i admire that about bernie in a sense that "the new york times" ran the article. the first jew in american history ever to win a primary and ever to win delegates in any national convention. now, bernie's not bragging about it. he did not mention it tonight. that would have been appropriate. he referenced it with his background and faith. that would be historic significance. i thought it was just the right tone. >> my counsel to would be on all of these things. loc
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localize, humanize. and hillary has the same problem. she talked about wisconsin labor unions. i don't know bernie as well. he doesn't like talking about his personal background either. one time he did and he missed the opportunity. he talked about how his parents immigrated from russia. >> poland. >> poland. it makes your heart swell. he is not willing to tell it. >> she talks about policy. it is what i liked about the town hall format where the rabbi asking her a question which she hadn't been asked before. she actually was thinking about. >> she has gotten really deep. >> we heard hillary clinton talk a lot about her mom and her experience growing up. i think she has done it more than he has.
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we don't know his personal story. >> anderson, in her closing remarks and i went back and played it during commercial break when she started talking about she is fighting for those left behind. she wanted to remove the barriers. i thought for the first time hillary gave a cogent message of why she's running. she is talking about the real women looking for real wages and gay and lesbian community. i thought it was an inclusive closing, but also went to the point of why she's running. what is she trying to do. i thought she answered that question. >> we have to take a quick short break. a lot more ahead to talk about with the panel, including how closely some of the claims of the facts. a reality check when we come back.
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hillary clinton and bernie sanders debated for two hours in milwaukee. a bit earlier, we played the sounds of who is financing their campaigns. tom foreman is here with that. >> both wanted to say how they are paying for all of this campaigning. listen. >> we both have a lot of small don donors. that sets us apart. >> i'm the only candidate up here of the many candidates, who has no super pac. >> both trying to create impressions here. let's see the money they raised.
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they have lots of small donors. they both have a lot. that's a general term. he has many, many more than she does. more than 70% of his support is from the small donors. hers, 16%. she is getting more money from big money donors. that's a fact. she did not mention that. what about bernie sanders saying he has nothing to do with super pacs. that not entirely forthcoming. it is not operated by his campaign. he said he is not really interested in doing it like that, but it does exist. she by the way has a lot more super pac money as well. in the end, when you look at the information and you know the impressions you are trying to give, you have to look at the
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statements, anderson and they both said things that were technically true, but because what they left out, it is misleading. >> all right. tom, thanks very much. back with our panel now. david, you had some point you want to talk about. >> i think we've been positive about the debate and i think it was a very good debate, but i think one important thing we haven't talked about is how different this debate was tonight from what we might have heard when bill clinton was running. this was a debate that was about how to fix problems by growing government. there wasn't a sentence about how to grow the economy or jobs. bill clinton would have been talking about innovation, how do we move things in this new age, how do we go green. in that sense it was like, wow, the center of gravity has moved to the left. >> she's reacting to sanders. >> she's reacting heavily to sanders, absolutely. >> i think one of his shortcomings is that in addition to banging wall street the way he does, he should say something about the virtue of small
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businesses in this country. and entrepreneurship. i've never heard him use terms , but if he would speak in those terms i think it would give him additional credibility. >> we heard from secretary clinton about i'll get rid of waste in government. i feel like don't we hear that all the time? >> no specifics. >> she will consolidate training programs and then she would find ways to make certain other areas in labor and other more efficient. she didn't get into the weeds. >> this is not a criticism of her, but i don't know of any politician who would say let's increase inefficiencies in government. everybody albany medical always says we will pay for this by raising taxes. that's the other alternative. bernie sanders says i'm going to raise taxes, but your health insurance premiums will go down to much you will end up on the positive side.
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>> they both say here are three things the government does great and i want to increase. we have a huge government and it does a lot of good things for a lot the people, but it screws up a lot of things. we ought to be able to have an honest conversation. >> bernie sanders said he would cut defense. >> he gave the speech about waste in government. >> he gave a speech about going after republicans. i just got the feeling that neither of them grew their tent much. spoke to their people, but did they get anybody that's on the fence? >> growing the tent is an interesting way to put it. if you look at the first two contests so far, iowa and new hampshire. republican turn out is up in both states. democratic turn out is down in both states since 2008. republicans feel like they have the energy. how much of that -- republicans think we have a chance to get
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the white house back after eight years, but some people say it was senator and president obama who brought a lot of new voters and for all the success senator sanders has in getting support from young people and independents that there's not a ground swell yet. there's no evidence that the democratic excitement is as high. >> john, if you're a republican watching -- >> they need donald trump on the democratic side of the aisle if they want to drive their participation. >> it's not just our coverage, but the entire political conversation since 2012 has been who will replace barack obama. i'm not surprised at turn out right now seems to be on the republican side, but come november that will flip. >> let me tell you if you're a republican and you watched this debate tonight -- you need to give me water. >> give me the kool-aid. >> drink it. give me the kool-aid.
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you have to choose between one candidate who can't stop thinking about yesterday and another guy who wants to redistribute my wealth. you're terrified about what you heard in this debate. >> you're not terrified about donald trump as your nominee. >> i'm horrified. >> what was missing here was the sense that you opened tonight by talking about the turmoil in the financial markets and the concern now that the economy may be really slowing down significantly, there was no reflection of that. how are we going to get this economy to grow with? that is what is creating so much hardship among people. the economy is growing at half the rate it used to grow and there's no discussion of how do we get this back on track and get this engine moving again. >> the discussion was more about -- or the subtext was -- what i can do for you and also how do we get the obama coalition together without obama because that's what these candidates were working on tonight.
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don't you think? they were trying to appeal for voters and vote for us even though obama is not at the top of the ticket anymore. that's a challenge for the democrats and i'm not sure either one of them did that tonight. in a general election sense. >> could i raise i think the weirdest part. you said what's lacking in the debate tonight. i was going to raise the weirdest part was this debate over this henry kissinger. why was hillary wrapping herself in the arms of kissinger. >> let's play that because it is fascinating. >> young people, go google henry kissinger right now. >> in her book and in this last debate she talked about getting the approval or the support or the mentoring of henry kissinger. now i find it rather amazing because i happen to believe that
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henry kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country. i am happy to say henry kissinger is not my friend. i will not take advice from him and his actions when the united states over threw that country and created instability and some three million innocent people were killed, so count me in as somebody who not be listening to henry kissinger. one of the worst genocides in the history of the world. count me in as somebody who will not be listening to henry kissinger. >> well, i know journalists have asked who do you listen to on foreign policy and we have yet to know who it is?
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>> it ain't henry kissinger. >> that's fine. i listen to a wide variety of voices that have expertise in various areas. i think it is fair to say whatever the complaints that you want to make about him are that with respect to china, one of the most challenging relationships we have, his opening up china and his ongoing relationships with the leaders of china is an incredibly useful relationship for the united states of america. >> the context i think is important -- >> by the way, bill, i like you are adapting sanders' wag of the finger. >> you know why because hillary was using -- >> it's a brooklyn catching a cab. >> what the context was they were asked who are the historical leaders you admire and bernie said fdr and churchill. >> bernie said you met with henry kissinger and i thought rather than let it drop -- >> can i give a little context, henry kissinger is 93 years old.
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>> that's the point i want to make. >> there's an argument by age if you look right now. >> 90% of democrats are going to say who is henry kissinger and the other 10% are going to say they hate him. i didn't understand why hillary made such a big point. >> a president actually has to get advice from all kinds of people and in clinton's first six months in office said the old man has been writing clinton three or four times, nixon thought hillary was intercepting the letters and burning them. i went to the president and i was like president nixon wants to see you. he came in and they met for a long time. they talked about russia. the guy was really smart. was that wrong for bill clinton to reach out to nixon? of course not. >> president clinton told me the
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best advice he got on the soviet union is nixon. >> i understand talking to nixon, but not kissinger. >> up ahead why appealing to african-american voters so crucial to candidates. and where it matters most. ahead.
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>> we spoke to the candidates about civil rights. given the make up of the coming primaries in south carolina, how
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well each candidate reaches african-americans could make a difference. let's bring in john king. >> let's show we'll bring up the national african-american population. the deeper the color, the higher percentage of african-americans. not many african-americans. we had the vote up in new hampshire, not many african-americans. the democrats first nevada and then they come to south carolina. it is obvious. you can see it. a much higher african-american population means the democrats are courting their traditional base. this is 2008 when you had the clinton and john edwards base. 43% of the vote was white. and then senator obama was third, but 55% of the vote was african-american, senator obama getting most of those rest. john edwards campaign was in trouble at this point. they were standing in milwaukee, they were talking to voters in nevada. on the civil rights issues and
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justice issues. without obama in the race, they think that is the constituency. bill clinton cleaned up. 77% of it. they're hope in the clinton campaign is they get that vote this time. you could see senator sanders trying to intensify his pitch. he is late to the game. he is from vermont. he is trying hard to increase support among african-americans. we will see how it plays out. >> do we have nevada? >> the latino population comes in there. the white vote was 65% and hillary clinton won and the african-american vote is 15%. senator obama won that, but the latino vote was 15% then and again secretary clinton did very well in the race winning nevada on the ultimately losing the nomination was 15% back in 2008.
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most people expect it to be higher this time. >> fascinating to look at the numbers. let's talk more with our panel. donna, do you see in south carolina a generational divide among african-american voters just as we've seen among women voters going for senator sanders overwhelmingly over senator clinton? do you see much breakdown? >> i think there's only been two polls, but i think from the information i've gathered from listening to people on the radio and others, yeah, hillary clinton has to make her case not just to young african-americans, but i think she has to make her case to southerners in general. paul and i hail from the south. where you from? >> nicaragua. >> way south. >> man, it's late. >> there's no question that she really has to appeal to them, many of them don't know her background, they don't know a lot about bill clinton.
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they were no the around when the famous poet called bill clinton the first black president. they may not understand a lot about that. i do believe this is going to be a very competitive race because african-americans are looking for someone who will support the so called legacy of obama, but with the economy and health care, et cetera, but to look to somebody who will champion issues that may have got lost over the last eight years. >> frankly the best thing that could happen to our communities is that it is competitive. make them sweat it. don't give it away for free. it's not about what they did for you last week, it's about tomorrow. >> i think he has to be careful of not putting everything through as a class basis. when he was asked about race relations, he turned it into billionaires getting tax cuts. i'm not sure that's the best way
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to talk about race issues is to talk about billionaire getting tax cuts. >> he talks about racial inequality and then economic inequality. as part of that inequality. listen to him talking about it tonight. >> we are looking at an economy in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and sadly in america today, in our economy, a whole lot of those poor people are african-american. >> so race relations would be better under a sanders presidency than they've been? >> absolutely. we will say instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires we are going to create millions of jobs for low income kids so they're not hanging out on street corners. we're going to make sure those kids stay in school, are able to get a college education and i think when you give low income kids, african-american, white, latino kids the opportunities to get their lives together they are not going to end up in jail, they're going to end up in the
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productive economy. which is where we want them. >> some of the messages we heard from sanders. bill. >> there's no doubt the clintons have had long deep real relationship with the african-american community in the south. the governor of arkansas all the way through that bernie sanders does not have. he starts with that disadvantage. i believe the issues that he's talking about really do resonate across the board. the other point is i hear the same argument about african-americans in south carolina that i heard about the clinton supporters in new hampshire. this was her territory. she had run four primaries up there. these are the people that put her over barack obama in 2008. they weren't there in new hampshire. i don't think they can take them for granted in south carolina either. if they do, it's a mistake. >> i remember hearing in 2008 everybody thought hispanics were not going to vote for the african-american and guess what
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hispanics voted for an african-american. so i think we can't see everything through the spectrum of race, gender or color. >> black voters are very sophisticated. they don't look at a candidate and say well i've known you for 20 years and therefore i like you. but they also read and look at the issues. they have conversations as you saw in the beauty parlor. you didn't see it in the restaurant. because you didn't see a lot of african-americans because it's late. i know. there's no question that the african-american voters are going to pay close attention and they're going to make a decision based on what they're saying to them now. >> like tonight, we know what they're going to say now. bernie is going to say i don't like wall street. hillary is going to say i do like barack obama. i think her message going to south carolina is a little bit better. >> i'm not questioning liking
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barack obama helps you in south carolina, but i will say in iowa and new hampshire, a lot of people democrats who said i love president obama. i like hillary clinton. but i'm thinking about bernie sanders or i'm for bernie sanders because he's talking more about tomorrow where he's going to take me, not where he's been. i think that's something she needs to get better at and he's making a connection with people. democrats like hillary clinton and respect her and love their president, but he is connecting with the younger voters by talking about tomorrow and not about you. >> that's why it was so important tonight because it was about breaking down barriers and going further and that was the first time i heard her talk about the future in that way. >> as long as we're talking about identity politics, her answer on women was kind of interesting because one of the moderators, i think it was judy may have pointed out that 55% of women in new hampshire supported bernie sanders and hillary
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clinton had a very good answer for that which is i want to appeal to you, but i'm just glad that women feel empowered, my least favorite word, but she clearly likes it and i think she said in answering the question about madeleine albright there's a special place in hell for women who don't support women because it's clear this is a huge disappointment for her and she can't get them by saying you're making the wrong choice, how dare you not vote for me. >> there's a definite generational divide. starting to emerge now. we are seeing it across the board. millennials versus older. you can see it by the black lives matter movement that's a younger push on the campuses and so forth. i totally understand why african-americans like that would be drawn to bernie sanders and what he's arguing. what is disturbing is the way that some are going to back to bill clinton's record and
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beginning to argue he was not a good president for blacks as a reason to vote for bernie sanders. blacks at the time did not agree with that. he got 82% in '92 and 84% in '96 and in the last years of his presidency he had high ratings among the blacks. they thought he was a very good president at the time. let's take a quick break. we'll talk about which candidate would make a better commander in chief. that's next.
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tonight's debate featured a few clashes and a lot of claims and council counterclaims. and here's another key moment on being commander in chief as well as women's issues. >> i have said many times i am not asking people to support me because i'm a woman. i'm asking people to support me because i think i'm the most qualified, experienced and ready person to be the president and commander in chief and i appreciate greatly senator sanders voting record. we need a leader on women's issues, somebody who votes right, but leads the efforts to protect the hard fought gains that women have made that make no mistake that are under tremendous attack, not just by the republican presidential
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candidates but by an effort to try to set back women's rights, so i'm asking women and men to support me because i'm ready to go into the white house on january 20th, 2017 and get to work on both domestic and foreign policy challenges. >> this is an issue that secretary clinton feels she has an advantage over sanders, although we predicted before the debate sanders tries to come back and say experience is one thing and judgment is another and i had the judgment to vote against the war in iraq. >> she says one vote does not mean you have great judgment. i thought that was a pretty good comeback tonight. >> she's saying you have to focus on what's happening now. >> she went a step further and she said that didn't hinder president obama from naming me the secretary of state. i thought this was the greatest unexploited area of his weakness
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and that is the difficulty in perceiving him as commander in chief. i don't think she's closed that deal. there is some advantage to be made. >> she probably should chase him around more on that. it's not his area of expertise and it is hers. how are you going to take on isis. you're not going to take it on by fighting wall street. any time he gets off of wall street it's like a slot machine, he's not registering, he doesn't care. >> it was interesting to hear her discount some of his specific ideas about bringing in coalition partners, bringing in the saudi arabia to cooperate. she backhanded away like it was a non starter. >> this is her wheel house and she wants to emphasis this, however the republicans are focussed on terrorism, national security, democrats are foxed on focused on the economy.
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i was surprised she didn't bring up the testimony of the intelligence officials saying isis plans to attack the united states next year. i was surprised she didn't bring that up. saying who do you want in the oval office when that happens. >> i think one of her best punches of the night was against trump. she said we're trying to put together a coalition in that area. does this man have a possibility of putting together a coalition. >> i thought it was interesting also that both candidates used donald trump to their advantage. >> he was hovering over this. >> let's play some of it. >> we need to do that throughout the country, but we need to understand that american muslims are on the front line of our defense. they are more likely to know what's happening in their families and their communities and they need to feel not just invited, but welcomed within the american society so when somebody like donald trump and others --
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[ applause ] stirs up it up, it hurts us at home. it's not only offensive, it's dangerous. the same goes overseas where we have to put together a muslim coalition of nations. i put together the coalition that imposed the sanctions iran and you don't tell muslim nations that you want them to be part of the coalition when you have a leading candidate for president of the united states who insults their religion. >> is this something sanders can try to bolster his credentials on. she's clearly more well versed in the topics whether or not voters care whether or not voters believe that makes better judgment. >> he tried to take her on when
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she criticized obama for wanting to engage iran and said you're kind of inconsistent and she threw it right back at him on libya. she said that he was inconsistent because he supported regime change. so i think she can punch him. he's not good at punching back at her on this because clearly he doesn't have the expertise, but there's a danger in that she can't appear to hawkish in the democratic party. >> talking about your experience is an asset. in this campaign not necessarily so? if there's something in the water, people are looking for something different. >> it's not experience, it's strength. i think she did tonight. bernie does seem a little out of his depth. he needs some generals and
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add mirror admirals he needs to talk to. >> it was interesting she sort of hit him on that saying we don't know who your advisors are. we're going to take another quick break. we'll be right back.
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as we've seen in other democratic debates this election season there were many instances tonight where clinton and sanders agreed with each other and it's striking to see compared to other debates. here is a sampling.
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>> we both agree that we have to get unaccountable money out of our political system. >> i completely agree with senator sanders. >> i would hope that we could all agree. >> we both share the goal of universal health care. both of us share the goal of trying to make college affordable. i think we're in agreement here. >> let me concur with the secretary. >> i think it's fair to say we don't have a disagreement. >> it did seem to me watching that it was more often her saying that we're in agreement which was basically her trying to draw herself closer to him i assume. >> in previous debates he was the candidate that said i agree with secretary clinton so it shows there's unity in the democratic party and it will help us. >> i think she was trying to blur the differences and she didn't want to get into that. >> it was an agreement. they served in the senate for a couple of years.
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she's a moderate democrat he's a socialist. they voted together 93% of the time. so the democratic party for good -- i think it's good, much more united. the republicans have differences. from the necessity neanderthals to the -- they are so far apart, but the democrats are kind of agreeing with the moderate 93% of the time. >> democratic socialist. >> you are -- >> as opposed to republican socialist. >> we're in the early chapters of two fascinating battles. both are fascinating so what we should focus on what we are getting from these debates quite a contrast we're going to see in november. tonight you have two democrats who have two paths to citizenship. two democrats saying my ultimate goal different ways but to get to different health care, republicans say we're going to repeal health care. >> i think yes i mean it's like
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alternate universes and i think tonight hillary clinton was trying to occupy a little bit of bernie sanders universe because she doesn't want to alienate those younger voters. she wants to open their eyes so they could be drawn to her side. >> i would wager that if she had won new hampshire there would be have been less agreement than tonight. she would have been to the right of him on a number of issues. >> she doesn't have as clear a lane as he does. his worst detractor knows what bernie represents and what he stands for. what i saw her tonight was trying to lay claim to president obama for these next several primaries. she wants people to nope that know that bernie sanders is
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critical of barack obama. >> that's why i thought it was a good night for both candidates and a great night for my book. >> sanders is forward. >> that's the whole thing. >> let's end it there. thanks everyone. "early start" begins next. was engineered... ...to help sense danger before you do. because when you live to innovate, you innovate to live. the all-new audi q7. a higher form of intelligence has arrived.
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sparks fly at the democratic presidential debate. bernie sanders and hillary clinton fighting one-on-one for the hearts and minds of democratic voters. they are heading into critical contests in nevada and south carolina. good morning. welcome to "early start." i'm christine romans. >> i'm john berman. punchy and poignant. a democratic debate that was way more than milwaukee. hillary clinton and bernie sanders turning focus to the diverse states of nevada and south carolina. hillary clinton turning her attention to

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