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tv   The Sixties  CNN  February 13, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PST

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it is 9:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for being with me. we begin this hour with breaking news. the leading conservative voice on the united states supreme court now silent. justice antonin scalia has died at the age of 79 in his sleep of natural causes during a trip to texas. he was appointed by former president ronald reagan back in 1986. you'll remember he was confirmed unanimously at that time by the senate 98-0. he was the first italian american to serve on the supreme court. president obama and the first lady expressing their deepest condolences to his family. this is a father of nine, a grandfather of 28. the president spoke about justice scalia's passing, saying that he would fulfill his
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constitutional duty and nominate in due time a successor to replace justice scalia. >> for almost 30 years justice antonin scalia was a larger than life presence on the bench. a brilliant legal mind with an energetic style, an incisive wit and colorful opinions. he influenced a generation of judges, lawyers and students and profoundly shaped the legal landscape. he will no doubt be remembered as one of the most consequential judges and thinkers to serve on the supreme court. justice scalia dedicated his life to the cornerstone of our democracy, the rule of law. tonight we honor his extraordinary service to our nation and remember one of the
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t towering legal figures of our time. antonin scalia was born in trenton, new jersey, to an italian immigrant family. after graduating from georgetown university and harvard law school, he worked at a law form and taught law before entering a life of public service. he rose from assistant attorney general to judge on the d.c. circuit court to associate justice of the supreme court. a devout catholic, he was a proud father of nine children and grandfather to many loving grandchildren. justice scalia was both an avid hunter and an opera lover. a passion for music that he shared with his dear colleague and friend justice ruth bader ginsberg. michelle and i were proud to welcome him to the white house, including in 2012 for a state dinner for prime minister david cameron. tonight we join his fellow
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justices in mourning this remarkable man. obviously today is a time to remember justice scalia's legacy. i plan to fulfill my constitutional responsibilities to nominate a successor in due time. there will be plenty of time for me to do so and for the senate to fulfill its responsibility to give that person a fair hearing and a timely vote. these are responsibilities that i take seriously, as should everyone. they're bigger than any one party. they are about our democracy. they're about the institution to which justice scalia dedicated his professional life to make sure it continues to function as the beacon of justice that our founders envisioned. but at this moment we most of all want to think about his family. and michelle and i join the nation in sending our deepest
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sympathies to justice scalia's wife maureen and their loving family, a beautiful symbol of a life well lived. we thank them for sharing justice scalia with our country. god bless them all and god bless the united states of america. >> and there you have it, president obama talking about a larger than life president on the bench, a justice who influenced a generation. this, as you look at pictures, very poignant images from a little bit earlier as darkness fell on the nation's capital, the flag lowered to half staff in honor of justice scal jia. i want to bring in our michelle kosinski. what's your reaction to what we heard from the president? >> i didn't expect it to be this lengthy well written talk about
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scalia's life. i think that was prepared quickly and it was eloquent and i think it was appropriate, because the president knows the battle that he's facing with the nominee. everybody wants to know about the timeline, who this could be. i think the president felt it appropriate first of all to talk about this man's livfe and the profound impact he had on his institution and on legal discourse in this country. and then get into a little bit about what comes next. talking about, yes, he is going to have a nominee, that it's his duty. and ending this by saying this is not about politics. it's bigger. the issues that we're talking about here are bigger than any one party. these issues are about our democracy and about the institution, making sure that it functions. the question mark hanging over this -- and it's a dark shadow -- is what is going to happen with this?
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is this going to turn into an ugly fight and what may be president obama's last worst battle with congress? i mean, you look at what's happened over the last year, year and a half with some of his nominees. i think loretta lynch is the best example, his attorney general. the delay in the senate confirming her. and they did finally confirm her, but this was a record delay, ten times longer than it usually takes for an attorney general. and the politics surrounding this got very ugly. one senator called this something like base ugly politics at its worst. and antonin scalia passed away houred ago a es ago and already seeing some of this from both sides. the battle has begun. it's almost a shame to be talking about this kind of battle so soon after scalia has passed, but that's the reality of it.
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and america needs to know where its supreme court is going to be, whether it's going to stand, what the makeup of it is going to look like in a short time frame. i doubt that we're going to see a year's delay, but it's possible. i mean, from what we're hearing from both sides now, that you know that the white house is going to be determined to put forth a nominee in a short period of time and do everything possible to convince republicans to take this up. >> and look, yes, it's an election year. yes, that makes things for complex. but it has happened before. justice anthony kennedy was s n confirmed during an election year 1988. yes, it was a different time. but he was confirmed unanimously. stay with me. because for our viewers just joining us, i do want to show you a little bit more from our
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chief washington correspondent joe johns about the legacy and the life of justice scalia. >> i antonin scalia do solemnly swear -- >> the first italian-american to sit on the nation's highest court, he was a conservative in thought but not in personality. >> he has an ir repressably pugnacious personality. that came out in oral argument where he was the most aggressive questioner and behind the scenes where the memos he wrote had a real galvanizing effect on the debate among the justices. >> the jurist was able to light up or ignite a room with his often bararash demeanor and we could sense of humor, grounded in a profound respect for american law and its constitutional traditions. >> he's obviously very candid about how he feels about things,
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loves to call it as he sees it, completely not pc, in fact prides himself in not being pc on the bench in court. >> i'm an italian from queens. this is the top of the hill. >> a sharp mind combined with a sharp pen allowed scalia to make his point. >> he's very good with audiences that aren't predisposed to like him. he's disarming and charming in his own way. >> he was raised in new york city, the only child of a sicilian borne college professor and a school teacher mother. >> i was something of a greasy grind, i have to say. i have studied real hard. >> he was a top student at public and private skacatholic schools in new york city. scalia's interest in law began in college. and so too an interest in
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maureen mccarthy with whom he later married and had nine children. his exuberant embrace of conservatism attracted the attention of republicans and president reagan ultimately named the 50-year-old judge to the high court in 1986. there he dropped a reputation as a reliable conservative. and his own style helped liven the public face of the high court. >> some of the other justices were kind of, well, if the new guy gets to ask all these questions, i'm going to sort of step up and ask some questions too. >> on abortion, the death penalty, affirmative action, homosexual rights, scalia clashed early and offer with more moderate or left leaning bench mates. >> at one extreme he would al n alienate some of his colleagues. if he was trying to get anybody to sign an opinion, it was
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harder when he used more conservative language. >> he once referred to the junior varsity congress. he quoted cole porter, shakes speshake shakespear and sesame street songs. off the bench came admiration from young conservatives who wrote books and created websites in tribute, but controversy too. a hunting trip with vice president cheney at the same time the court was considering a lawsuit over access to privileged documents. and this on the war on terror. >> war is war and it has never been the case that when you capture a combatant, you have to
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give him a jury trial in your civil courts. it's a crazy idea to me. >> to thine self be true. >> feared and celebrated, combining equal amounts of personal levity and judicial heft. >> he'll be remembered in many ways, certainly as this larger than life figure, someone who embraced both the law and a life bond the court. >> he will go down as one of the great justices in the history of the supreme court. i think that his clarity of thought, wit, writing, you know, will be very difficult to match. >> a judge who combined street smarts with a well calculated conservative view of the law and its limits on society. >> i'm not driven. i enjoy what i'm going. as soon as i no longer enjoy it,
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♪ mmmm... come on... ♪ be mine... welcome back. i'm poppy harlow in new york. we are continuing to follow the breaking news, the very sad news of the death of a sitting u.s. supreme court justice, justice antonin scalia who served on the high court for 30 years, the first italian-american ever nominated and connefirmed to th court, a justice who is very, very conservative in his opinions, yet at the same time known for his long and deep friendship with his opponent on
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the left ruth bader ginsberg. a man we know for his humor and his wit and skill with the pen. let me bring in someone who knew him very well, ian samuel. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> i'm so sorry. i wish it were under better circumstances. >> yeah. it's still shocking, to tell you the truth. i don't think it's set in. >> you have a deep knowledge of him as a person. >> he loved his law clerks. he really did. he was universally beloved. maybe that contrasts. >> jovial. >> he really loved his law clerks. he described us as nieces and nephews who went onto do very well.
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it's a strange thing that keep sticking in my mind, but when he was interviewing me he said something that i have repeated many times about life. he was talking about when you're done here, what are you going to go do? are you going to work for a law firm? i said yeah, probably. i was maybe 27 at the time. he said these law firms they really work you hard nowadays. they don't leave enough time for your other responsibilities. you have other responsibilities in life, responsibilities to your family, responsibilities to your church, responsibilities to your community. he gave me advice on how to pick a law firm where that would be possible. i said that's easy for you to say, you worked at a law firm in ohio 30 years ago. but it really did stick with me. >> that really, to me, sounds like the father of nine speaking to you. >> i would say that he was the father of nine. yeah, the father of nine, the mass who didn man who didn't miss mass. these things were real
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responsibilities to him. >> we heard the president tonight in his brief remarks noting this is a man born to an italian immigrant family. this was the first justice on the court to be an italian-american. what did that part of his life mean to him? >> he was very proud of that. it meant a lot to i think people all across the country when he was nominated. he talked about how he got letters when president reagan nominated him, how much it meant to see somebody named scalia on the supreme court. it really meant a lot to him. he was a new yorker, but it meant a lot to him to mean something to other people. >> obviously you clerked with him just three years ago. is there any opinion he wrote during your time with him or any opinion he wrote before you came to clerk for him that stands out to you most? >> yeah. there is one that i think probably will go down as the
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legendary opinion, or i think it should. and he wrote it very very early when he was on the court long before -- it was in a case called morrison v olsen about the independent prosecutor statute. he was an 8-1 solo dissent and he has just gotten on the court and it really does represent him at the height of his legal powers and it also just contains him at his best as a writer. it contains some of the best legal writing you will ever read. >> did he make you a better writer? >> oh yeah. he was a great writer. as a user of language he was incredible. >> let me ask you this and you may not be able to answer it and you may not know what he would have said. let me ask you this. there is now already a political fight going on. the president says he will nominate a success soor. and you've got those on the
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right, jeff sessions saying no you should wait for the next president, ted cruz saying the same thing, mitch mcconnell saying the same thing. what would justice scalia want to see happen when it comes down to a rule of law and the u.s. constitution? >> i can't exactly speak to this because this is somewhat of an unusual circumstance. i do know he was a great believer in the ability of the congress to work things out with the tools available to him. as to what his preference, i would never presume to say that. but he was a great scholar as to how do they manage that, how do they work it out and how does the constitution provide for that. it's interesting at minimum. >> i've been asking our guests the one word they would use to describe justice scalia. for you, what is that word? >> i think i would borrow the
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word lion. i mean, he is a lion the likes of which we will never see again. he really is. we just don't get people like that. you canget these people for as g as you get them. >> thank you very much for coming in. i'm sorry for your loss, but what an experience that you get to tell your kids about. >> i treasure the time that i got to spend with him and i will miss him the rest of my life. >> thank you very much. we appreciate it. as we continue to remember the life of justice antonin scalia we're going take a quick break. if you're totally blind, you may also be struggling with non-24. calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com.
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. we are getting reaction from several former presidents right now on the passing of justice antonin scalia. former president george bush, the appointment of antonin scalia to the supreme court was one of ronald reagan's many enduring legacies to the united states. both his add miemirerers and detractors agree. barbara and i were honored to call him a friend. our hearts break today for our country, but especially for his wife maureen and their nine children and extended family. his death is a great loss for us all. also former president george w. bush speaking out saying, laura and i both mourn the death of a brilliant jurist and important american, supreme court justice
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antonin scalia, who was a towering figure and important judge on our nation's highest court. he brought intellect, good judgment and wit to the bench. and he will be missed by his colleagues and our court. laura and i september our heart felt sympathies and condolences to his wife maureen, their nine children. he paused for a moment also to reflect on the justice. >> my prayers are with his family and with his friends. justice scalia, he would find it probably hard to believe that i i would say this. but i always kind of liked justice scalia, because he never pretended to believe something he didn't, he never pretended to be anything he wasn't. and i think that's one reason by all accounts he became good friends with justice ginsberg who i appointed to the supreme court. they disagreed on nearly
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everything, but they treated each other awith respect. and they sat down and had honest arguments. that's all you can ask in mitigating circumstance. nobo tonight all of us should be praying for his fachl and thami thankful he was able to live a life where he could say what he thought and do what he thought was right and do it with a smile on his face and reach out and make friends with ruth bader ginsberg who did the same exact thing and came to different conclusions. that's what makes democracy work and i'm grateful. >> there you have it from former president bill clinton. i want to talk more about this with paul. now that you've got a court with eight justices in the middle of a season, if you will, with some
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of these cases that have been argued but a decision not handed down. >> it's a strange situation because we haven't really seen this happen in many cases through the years. but the supreme court decision really doesn't become final until it's announced by the supreme court at the end of the temple. so i suppose that if there have been cases where they took preliminary votes and made a decision based on scalia's vote, the minority in that decision could certainly go to the chief justice roberts and say we'd like to revote that. because this internal process is still going on really until the final decision is noted. now, on the other hand, they could choose to just stand by the votes that have been taken and move on. >> and you cannot over state the experience of this in the context of the presidential election, the gop debate in south carolina tonight. first question, of course was about exactly this. when you look at the influence
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of this in the context of the election, you've got all three branches of government now in play. you've got the executive branch with the election. you've got congress. and you've now got the supreme court up because this was a man who really swayed the court one way. >> yes. it's interesting that his death would do this. because scalia was a strange supreme court justice in that he spoke widely, his words were known across america, even though if you look back over his history of decision making, a lot of his decisions, you know, nobody remembers because he was often speaking in dissent. he often felt that the court was going too far, was going beyond what the constitution required. but everybody knows him as a voice of conservatism and principled conservatism. >> he was in the majority in bush versus gore in 2000. >> the heller case may be one
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that he is remembered for. up until the heller case there was a trend to say that the second amendment really didn't have to do with an individual right to bear arms, but had to do with the right of a well armed citizen's militia. and he made it very very clear in heller that was not what i meant. >> it was the individual's right to bear arms. >> absolutely. >> interesting that something that president obama agreed with him on. >> president obama did agree with him on it. it's hard to oppose guns in america and get elected and state elected. >> thank you very much. stay with us. we have much more ahead. also what is ahead is a fascinating one on one interview with piers morgan and antonin scalia. four years ago they sat down together. riveting interview with extraordinary insights into the le legendary justice. you will hear it in its entirety, a judge who my guest just called a true lion. ♪
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we are continuing to follow the breaking news tonight, the death of u.s. supreme court justice, antonin scalia, he died at the age of 79. we know that he died in his sleep of natural causes during a hunting trip to a ranch in
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texas. he was appointed in 1986 but then president ronald reagan. he was the first italian-american to serve on the nation's high court. just a short time ago, president obama called him a towering legal figure. the president also saying tonight he will indeed nominate a replacement for justice scalia in due time, saying it is his constitutional responsibility to do so. and tonight in washington as darkness fell, the flag outside of the supreme court was lowered and then raised to half staff in honor of justice scalia. earlier today chief justice john roberts issued a statement calling scalia an extraordinary individual and jurist admired and treasured by his colleagues. he said that his passion is a great loss to the court and the can you be the that he so loyally served. back in july of 2012, justice scalia sat down for an exclusive in depth interview with then cnn
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anchor piers morgan. but that leaves his faith and thoughts on campaign finance and politics and his colleagues. it's all on the table tonight. my exclusive interview with justice antonin scalia and co-author of their new book. reading law, the interpretation of legal texts. justices scalia, welcome. brian, welcome to you, too. >> thank you. >> the book is very much a template for the way that you
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conducted your legal life. you are a man that believes, fundamentally, that the law in america should be based rigidly on the letter of the constitution. that's what you believe, isn't it? fundamentally. >> yes, give or take a little. rigidly i would not say, but it should be based on the text of the constitution reasonably interpreted. >> people that criticize you for this say, a lot of the constitution was phrased in a deliberately vague way. they realize, when they framed it, that in generations to come things may change, which may put a different impression on a particular piece of text. >> sure. >> why are you not prepared to accept that that means you can move with the times, to evolve it? >> but i do accept that, with respect to those vague terms in the constitution such as "equal protection of the laws," "due process of law," "cruel and unusual punishments."
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i fully accept that those things have to apply to new phenomena that didn't exist at the time. what i insist upon, however, is that, as to the phenomena that existed, their meaning then is the same as their meaning now. for example, the death penalty. some of my colleagues who are not textualists or originalists at least believe that it's somehow up to the court to decide whether the death penalty remains constitutional or not. that's not a question for me. it's absolutely clear that whatever cruel and unusual punishments may mean with regard to future things, such as death by injection or the electric chair, it's clear that the death penalty in and of itself is not considered cruel and unusual punishment. >> but more and more americans are coming to think of the death penalty as an anachronistic thing.
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50 years ago when you began -- you're the longest serving justice. when you began, the majority of americans, big majority, would have been in favor of the death penalty. that's beginning to change. and you're seeing it, for want of a better phrase, going out of fashion. one of the reasons being the introduction of dna establishing that a large number of people on death row didn't commit the crimes. how do you equate that -- as a man of fairness and justice, how do you continue to be so pro something which is so obviously flawed? >> i'm not pro. people -- i don't insist that there be a death penalty. all i insist upon is that the american people never proscribed the death penalty, never adopted a constitution which said the states cannot have the death penalty. if you don't like the death penalty, fine. some states have abolished it. you're quite wrong it's aa majority. it's a small minority of states that have abolished it. majority still permit it. but i'm not pro death penalty.
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i'm just anti the notion that it is not a matter for democratic choice. that it has been taken away from the democratic choice of the people by a provision of the constitution. that's simply not true. the american people never ratified a provision which they understood abolished the death penalty. when the cruel and unusual punishments clause was adopted, the death penalty was the only penalty for a felony. >> all we'd have to do is amend the constitution. i mean, it can be amended. it is changeable, but it's changeable by process, not by asking the judiciary to make up something that is not there in the text. >> right. but, for example, on the cruel and unusual, i was fascinated by your interview i think with "60 minutes" where you said in your eyes torture wasn't an cruel and unusual punishment, i think is what you said, torture wasn't punishment. i thought, well, hang on a second. it clearly can be a punishment.
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if you're an innocent person, say you're in guantanamo bay and you've expressed views there. say you were picked off a battlefield and you have nothing to do with anything and you're innocent and get tortured. that becomes a punishment, doesn't it? >> no. i don't think it becomes a punishment. it becomes torture. we have laws against torture. the constitution doesn't address torture. it addresses punishment, which means punishment for crimes. >> what if you're an innocent person being waterboarded? >> i'm not for it, but i don't think the constitution says anything about it. >> isn't that the problem, though, with the originalism? >> it's not the problem. it's problem of what does the constitution mean by cruel and unusual punishments. >> isn't it down to the supreme court to effectively give a more modern interpretation of the spirit of what that means? to adapt it to modern times. >> well, that's lovely. >> i know you don't think it is.
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why don't you think it is? >> well, i don't think it is because, look, the background principle of all of this is democracy. a self-governing people who decide the laws that will be applied to them. there are exceptions to that. those exceptions are contained in the constitution, mostly in the bill of rights. and you cannot read those exceptions as broadly as the current court desires to read them, thereby depriving americans of legitimate choices that the american people have never decided to take away from them. and that's what happens whenever you read punishments to mean torture. if you are sentenced to torture for a crime, yes, that is a crucial punishment. but the mere fact that somebody is tortured is unlawful under our statutes but the constitution happens not to address it, just as it does not address a lot of other horrible things.
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>> when you did the book, what did you argue most with justice scalia about? he's one of the world's great arguers. i feel like we're just warming up. >> i love to argue. >> he's an intellectual giant, and we had no debates in this book. in the first book, we had four debates with a pro and con. in this book we had none. the biggest issue in the end, we almost had a debate about but he persuaded me not to, was whether a murderer can inherit, can a son, for example, murder his parents and move up his inheritance and still take whatever the property is from his parents, if the statute doesn't say anything about it? and we all feel that that's wrong, and i was at first of arguing that there should be an equitable exception and that we absolutely have to prevent a murderer from inheriting. what did you say in response to that? >> i said, if you're going to be serious about textualism, if the statute does not make an
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exception, it does not make an exception. and those states that hadn't made an exception amended their statutes. that's what happened. already. ahead, much more from that one on one exclusive interview with justice antonin scalia. it talks to him about his thoughts on free speech and its limits, next. whoa! that's not another blade. this is shielding. with lubrication here and here. the new gillette with proshield lubrication before and after the blades shields from irritation for a close, comfortable shave. the new proshield from gillette. the best a man can get. and one proshield refill gets you up to one month of shaves. i am a lot of things. i am his sunshine. i am his advocate.
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t-mobile doubled there lte coverage in the last year. and with more lte towers than verizon, t-mobile reaches pretty much everyone they do. i'm not taking responsibility on this one... uh-uh, verizon got it wrong... yes! not me! join the millions that switched. justice antonin scalia's impact on the high court ask not be over stated. he played a role on flag burning and free speech and of course on citizens united.
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justice scalia described the reasons with an exclusive interview with piers morgan. here is more of that conversation from jul y of 2012. i want to ask you why you think burning the american flag should be allowed, even though personally you'd throw them all in jail. welcome back. my guest justice antonin scalia and bryan garner, co-authors of their book. why do you believe that people who burn the flag in america should be allowed to do so, yet you personally, if you had the chance, would send them all to tyrants would seek to suppress. burning the flag is a form of expression. speech doesn't just mean written words or oral words. it could be semaphore.
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burning a flag is a symbol that expresses an idea. i hate the government. the government is unjust, whatever. >> if you're not sure, then in the end no one knows the constitution better than you do. doesn't it come down to your personal interpretation of the constitution? if it isn't clear-cut, which it clearly isn't, you in the end have to make an opinion, don't you? >> well, don't forget, this person has to be convicted by a jury of 12 people who unanimous ly have to find that he was inciting to riot. so it's not all up to me. it would be up to me it say there was not enough evidence for the jury to find that, perhaps. but ultimately the right of jury trial is the protection. >> don't you think this example of reading speech and symbolic speech, there's a lot of case law about that of course but it's a good example of why we think strict construction is a
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bad idea. a lot of people think justice scalia is a strict constructionist when in fact he and i both believe -- >> what does that mean? >> well, it really means a narrow reading, a crabbed reading of statutory words or of constitutional words. and it's a kind of hyper literalism which we oppose. we like a fair reading of the statute, a fair reading of the words, and in this case speech. >> let me take up the issue of speech. let's turn to political fund-raising which at the moment under your interpretation i believe of the constitution you should be allowed to raise money for a political party. the problem as i see it and the critics see it is that has no limitation to it. so what you've now got are these super pacs funded by billionaires effectively trying to buy elections. that cannot have been what the founding fathers intended. thomas jefferson didn't sit there constructing something which was going to be abused in that kind of way. i do think it's been abused. don't you?
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>> no. i think thomas jefferson would have said, the more speech the better. that's what the first amendment is all about. so long as the people know where the speech is coming from -- >> but it's not speech. i'm talking about money to back up the speech. >> you can't separate speech from the money that facilitates the speech. >> can't you? >> it's utterly impossible. could you tell newspaper publishers, you can only spend so much money in the publication of your newspaper? >> but that's different. >> would they not say, this is abridging my speech? >> but newspaper publishers aren't buying elections. i mean, the election of a president, as you know better than anybody else, you've served under many of them, is an incredibly important thing. >> newspapers -- >> we shouldn't be susceptible to the highest bidder, should it? >> newspapers endorse political candidates all the time. what do you mean -- they're almost in the business of doing that. >> yes. >> and are you going to limit the amount of money they can spend on that? surely not. >> do you think perhaps they should be?
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>> i certainly think not. i think, as i think the framers thought, the more speech the better. now, you are entitled to know where the speech is coming from, you know, information as to who contributed what. that's something else. but whether they can speak is, i think, clear in the first amendment. >> is there any limit, in your eyes, to freedom of speech? >> of course. >> what are the limitations, to you? >> i'm a textualist. and what the provision reads is, "congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech." so they had in mind a particular freedom. what freedom of speech? the freedom of speech that was the right of englishmen at the time. >> what is the difference between speech about insurrection being unacceptable and speech as you're burning a flag? isn't that a form of insurrection? >> no. >> isn't it? >> no. no.
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that's just saying we dislike the government. it's not urging people to take up arms against the government. that's something quite different. that's what i mean by speech urging insurrection. speech inciting to riot or inciting -- >> or shouting "fire" in a theater. what about that? >> one of the more complex things about you, justice scalia, which i think has been admired and criticized in equal measure, the case i would put to you i think is interesting where you dissented against something where i think common sense would have dictated the opposite. with maryland v. craig, a young girl who had been abused by a child molester, and she gave evidence by closed circuit television. she did not appear in court. and the abuser argued that this was unconstitutional because under the confrontation element of the constitution he should have been allowed to be face to face with his victim. now, what part of human decency or common sense says that he should have the right to be face
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to face with his young girl victim? because you dissented against the supreme court. >> i did. >> you decided he should be allowed to. >> all legal rules do not come out with a perfect sensible answer in every case. the confrontation clause in some situations does seem to be unnecessary. but there it is. and its meaning could not be clearer. you are entitled to be confronted with the witnesses against you. and simply watching the witness on a closed-circuit television -- >> even when the witness was a young girl who's already been abused and is actually traumatized by what happened? >> what it says is what it says. >> do you go home at night when you dissent in that particular case, do you have misgivings about it on a personal level? or are you always able to divorce that, as you say, your legal responsibility to uphold
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the lesser of the constitution? >> i sleep very well at night knowing i'm doing what i'm supposed to do, which is to apply the constitution. i do not always like the result. very often i think the result is terrible. but that's not my job. i'm not king, and i haven't been charged with making the constitution come out right all the time. >> all right. we will have much more of piers morgan's interview there with justice scalia ahead. they talked about obviously the roe versus wade ruling, which was made before scalia took the bench, and much, much more in that interview with justice scalia ahead. i do want to tell you, though, that later this week cnn will host two republican presidential town hall events in south carolina. all six republican candidates will participate. marco rubio, ted cruz, ben
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carson will be in the town hall on wednesday night. on thursday night donald trump, jeb bush, and john kasich will join our anderson cooper. he will be hosting both town halls. and they will both begin at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. these will give voters in south carolina the opportunity to question the candidates and of course the passing of supreme court justice antonin scalia will be addressed as well in depth during those town halls this week. the republican presidential town halls wednesday and thursday 8:00 p.m. eastern only right here on cnn. stay with me. much more of that exclusive cnn interview with justice antonin scalia is next. dad, you can just drop me off right here. oh no, i'll take you up to the front of the school. that's where your friends are. seriously, it's, it's really fine. you don't want to be seen with your dad? no, it's..no..
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this is cnn breaking news. >> we are continuing to follow the breaking news tonight. the death of u.s. supreme court justice antonin scalia at the age of 79.

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