tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN March 4, 2016 11:00am-1:01pm PST
♪ we can't let you download... uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. good afternoon. happy friday to all of you. i'm brooke baldwin. lots of talk today we are following breaking news here in the race for president because here's what we know now. live pictures here, cadillac, michigan. waiting to hear from donald trump. the breaking news is this, that we have just learned mr. trump plans to skip c pac, that is a major conservative conference
this weekend, he won't be there. who is there and who is currently speaking, you just saw a hot second ago, the governor of ohio, john kasich, who would like to beat mr. trump in winning the party's nomination for president. by the way, we will be speaking to this hour live. do not miss that. lots of politics to dive into. but first, let's get to this. this could be hollywood's greatest crime story, the grisly murders of o.j. simpson's wife nicole brown simpson and her friend ronald goldman. o.j. simpson was tried and acquitted for this infamously gruesome acts. the murder weapon, a knife, was never found. fast forward to just a couple hours ago. the los angeles police department revealing new information that could perhaps alter the course of this cold case. a knife has allegedly been found around the perimeter of o.j.
simpson's former home, his rockingham estate. >> the story told to us by the person we received it from and the person we received this knife from is a retired lapd officer who retired back in the late '90s. he was a motor officer. at the time, according to him, he was working an off duty, which is he was working a movie job, which a lot of our officers do on an off duty basis, as well as our retired officers. so i do not know whether he was retired at the time that he allegedly received this item from the person who claimed they found it on the property, or whether he was still, in fact an lapd officer and retired some time after that so we're looking into that. the bottom line is that with all callses that remain open such as the o.j. simpson and other murder cases and robbery cases, unless there's an actually arrest or conviction to prove that we have actually closed the case, the cases remain open.
>> this of course is all playing out as the fx tv series about the simpson trial "american time story, the people versus o.j. simpson," is halfway through its ten-part run. let's kick off our coverage. more on the developments from los angeles. paul vercammen, please tell me what you know. >> well, brooke, right now, this knife is in the police's scientific investigative division or sid and what they'll do is see if they can find any traces of dna. perhaps if they're super fortunate, fingerprints. they'll also look for blood. we pressed the captain on the size of this knife, is it consistent with the knife that would have been involved in the stabbings, in this murder. and he would not be specific. so we tried to get him to rule
things out, machete, kitchen knife, a pen knife. he said it certainly was not a machete and indicated they don't want to reveal too much because, as you pointed out, brooke, this is an ongoing cold case. so still a lot of mystery hanging in the air. it seems that this is either the most significant evidentiary development in this case in 20 years or it could be, as can be the case with all things o.j. simpson, just another red herring and wild rumor, brooke. >> do we know, quickly, paul, why that person didn't come forward many moons ago and say, hey, i have this knife? >> we do not. of course, as the story is going right now, it's the officer who said -- retired officer, that someone else gave him the knife. so you're attributing it to other people. that was a question also we pressed on. imagine being the public information officer in this scenario and you, too, are wondering why in the world, whether retired or not, an lapd employee would hang on to this
knife. >> paul vercammen, lots of questions, thank you, sir, in los angeles. the nicole brown simpson case, by the way, it's still open. and lapd investigators are looking into any possible criminal violations by the retired officer who says he was given this knife some years ago. let's discuss. i have cnn senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin, author of the book "the run of his life, the people versus o.j. simpson." also with me here in new york, legal analyst and criminal defense attorney mark geragos and i have tom lane with me on the phone, former lapd lead detective who was assigned to the o.j. simpson case. detective lane was the man who was actually on the phone with o.j. simpson during that infamous white bronco chase. so welcome to all of you. and, detective lane, let me just kick it off with you. i want a reality check from you. how many knives have been found in the years since this story
first broke? >> initially, brooke, there were several fives found around the property. we did a canvass of not only the property but the streets all the way from rockingham to bundy with an academy class. there were dozens and dozens of hours spent with over 100 officers searching property yars, areas, sewers, streets, no stone unturned kind of a situation. as to knives, there were several knives turned in by various people. we even had people admitting to the crime. and you have to look at all of these things. we also had, don't forget, a witness at l.a.x. who observed simpson push things into a trash container at american airlines before he got on the flight. and that -- it was never reported to us until months after these items were taken out of a small utility bag, put in the container, and then he
zipped the bag shut and walked into the terminal and that was that. so we've had this type of a thing happen before. this particular incident, we don't know anything about the circumstances of the recovery. it's very unclear, so we're going to have to wait and see. as far as the knife itself goes, there's a lot of testing, dna, possibly prints, but more importantly, probably, if nothing else is there it we're going to look to see if this weapon is dimensionally consistent with the wounds on the victims. >> as paul vercammen was reporting, it's in the hands of the sid in l.a. the wound's consistent, forensics, keep in mind, it's been in soil for years and years and years. jeff toobin, you wrote the book on this. let's play the what the if game. if this is it, if this is the murder weapon, what happens to o.j. simpson? >> nothing. he has been tried and acquitted. and under the double jeopardy clause of the constitution, he can't be tried again. so this so-called discovery, if
it is, does, in fact, have anything to do with the murders, is of great historical interest, but legally, since he has been tried and acquitted and since there has been a civil judgment against him, in the subsequent case by the goldman family, it just has no legal significance at all. >> mark geragos, you say you have a theory, sir, spill it. >> one of my theories is that toobin arranged for this because it comes halfway through his tv series. >> what do you think about this, toobin? >> don't answer, i don't want you to incriminate yourself. the only legal jeopardy i can think of, i haven't researched it today, to take a look at, is, you know, you can be acquitted in a state court and you can still be prosecuted federally like rodney king. i haven't looked at the statute of limitations but you're talking 20 years for a violation
of somebody's constitutional or civil rights. so if there were to lead to something, would the feds jump in here, would they say that there was a prosecution in the offing? my guess is probably barred by the statute of limitations, but you can do that. you can be acquitted -- it's this weird kind of exit or pathway in the double jeopardy clause. you can actually be acquitted in a state court, yet then subsequently prosecuted in a federal court. >> so that's one potential exit route there with regard to the law, but i'm still back on this knife and detective lane, help me out, just as far as forensics goes, again, if this knife, you know, dates back, what was it '95? >> 20 years. >> 20 years, 20 years ago, what kind of forensics could you really find on this? >> well, it's questionable. of course, dna can be around for a long time. by the way, i'm also glad to see mark hasn't lost his sense of
humor. >> he sure hasn't, has he? >> going to check for the dna again, which is possibly there. prints are questionable. but of some consequence is going to be whether or not this weapon is dimensionally consistent. i mean, could this have possibly have been used? and, again, we've had several people come forward with knives over the years. this is nothing new. i question how this whole thing began. we got people saying one thing and going back 18 years and "a" gave it to "b" who maybe put it and gave it to "c." we just don't know at this point. >> i think tom's absolutely right. whether there's dna on there, there can be. i've had cases out of this special s.i.d. unit where their had units that was 20 years old. 20 years later, they get a hit and they're able to then link it up to whatever evidence -- >> this is maybe a knife deep
down in some soil -- >> and what tom's alluding to though, the bigger problem, is kind of a chain of custody problem. first you've got an off-duty lapd officer. boy is the guy correct that a lot of them are doing movies in l.a. it's a great source of overtime. but he gets it from somebody else. now, there's all kinds of legal problems with the person, whoever had it, when did they come into it, what -- >> couldn't that person if you're potentially withholding -- >> evidence. >> evidence -- >> arguably, how did he find it, what's the providence of it, so all those things become real questions they're going to have to ask. >> if i can just add, i mean, mark is exactly right, the chain of custody for 20 years is an enormous problem, but if there is dna on the knife, which ties to either the victims or even to simpson himself, that might trump the chain of custody problem. i mean, if the blood is actually
that of one of the two victims. you know, that would make it relevant evidence, that then you would work on the chain of custody. the first thing you have to do is determine if there is any dna connection. because if there's none, then this is just irrelevant and nothing. >> it's a ratings booster, but jeff is right, if there is any kind of dna, anything whatsoever that they can -- even if it's just a small piece, that is going to trump in most judge's minds whether or not it's admissible. >> mark geragos, jeff toobin, detective tom lane, thank you all so much. i appreciate that. coming up, back to politics. breaking news here in the race for president. donald trump, speaking right now, cadillac, michigan. the news is this, he has just announced he will not attend c pac, a major conservative conference, this weekend. if he's a no show there what will he be doing this weekend? we have that for you. also ahead, will the republican race come down to two key
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and we're back. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. turning now to the republican race for the white house. the stakes could not be higher it the discourse is now hitting an all-time low, yes, folks, donald trump and some of the others, they've gone there. for one, trump defended the size of his -- on the presidential debate stage, a counterpunch, he says, to correct the record that he does not have small hands, a punch from marco rubio. will his below the belt bravado make any difference to voters heading to the polls tomorrow? 155 crucial delegates are up for grabs saturday. if not that, what is about this story that is first on cnn? donald trump announcing he will be skipping the influential c-pac event that end stas for the conservative political action conference.
the billionaire stands above the pack, despite the fact that he is taking it from all sides. the gop calculating how to keep him -- the nomination from him. and then on the debate stage last night, donald trump took it from, you know, all sides here from especially marco rubio and ted cruz. >> we are not going to turn over the conservative movement or the party of lincoln or reagan for example to someone whose positions are not conservative. someone who thinks the nuclear triad is a rock band front the 1980s. >> this little guy has lied so much about my record. the real con artist is senator marco rubio. the people of florida can't stand him. he couldn't get elected dog catcher. >> you know, donald has a tenuous relationship with the truth. >> you're the lying guy up here. you're the liar. you're the one. now let me just tell you -- >> are you hiding -- >> excuse me, i've given my answer, lying ted, i've given my answer. >> in cadillac michigan, where
trump is holding that rally. we'll get into what trump said to the rally there, but first, why not attend c-pac, what's the story there? >> donald trump is skipping c-pac this weekend and is going to kansas instead. of course, kansas is voting tomorrow. this is going to be the first trip for donald trump to that state. then he goes to orlando for a big rally there. of course, florida, a huge state. a winner take all state in the florida primary. on march 15th. so that will be a big rally for him. the american conservative union, the guys organizing c-pac, say they're very disappointed donald trump won't show up and they say that sends a clear message to the conservative grassroots. it comes at a time when marco rubio and cruz are hitting trump for not being conservative enough. whether it's his record on abortion or the record on giving to hillary clinton's campaigns. both cruz and rubio are beating him u.n. of course we have the small
hands debate which continues to rage with donald trump defending his man hood on the debate stage last night. in fact, he went after marco rubio again this morning, let's take a listen. >> so when little marco spews his crap about the size of my hands which are big, the size of my hands? i looked at him. i said, marco -- now, i just wanted to set -- look at that. those hands can hit a golf ball 285 yards. >> so there you have it, the hands scandal continues on the campaign trail. donald trump starting to pivot to the general election, saying he's the guy who can take on hillary clinton, and that you need some flexibility when negotiating. when you look at the polls, there's no question why, here in michigan, brooke, he is leading, 29% support, both cruz and rubio jockeying for that second place position, to be the trump alternative. here in cadillac, michigan, you can hear donald trump behind me
speaking. they lined up and folks could not get in, they are at capacity, with over 3,000 people here. they're very excited to hear donald trump. we'll hear what else he has to say about rubio and ted cruz, brooke. >> chris frates, thank you, sir, in michigan. gives his rivals even more reason to criticism him. whoever the ultimate nominee is for the republican party, they will all back that one individual. >> i'll support the republican nominee. >> mr. trump, yes or not. >> i'll support the republican nominee. >> yes, because i gave my word that i would. what i have endeavored to do every day in the senate is do what i said i will do. >> sometimes he makes it a little bit hard but, you know, i will support whoever is the republican nominee for president. >> can you definitively say tonight that you will definitely support the republican nominee for president, even if it's not you? >> the sans yes, i will.
>> joining me now, chris kovac, the kansas secretary of state who recently endorsed trump. republican pollster kelly ann conway. and jamie weinstein, senior editor for the daily caller. secretary, let me just begin with you, because you must be thrilled that trump is heading to your state tomorrow, prioritizing kansas, and i'm just wondering, did you have any conversation with him before his camp announced he wouldn't attend c-pac this weekend? >> i did have some conversation with his campaign, not with mr. trump directly. i understand how important that conference is. so mr. trump's coming to wichita to speak an hour before the caucus begins. one of the interesting things about kansas, many people may not know, is in the past two election cycles, caucusgoers
have voted against the front-runner when the front-runner has been an establishment candidate. so they went for santorum over romney last time and in '08 huckabee over mccain. even though in both cases the front-runner pretty much wrapped it up at that point. it will be interesting what happens tomorrow. because now the front runner is an anti-establishment candidate. and i think kansas is very much up for grabs and the trump campaign realizes it. >> jamie, secretary kovac brings up an excellent point, delegates, delegates, delegates. 34, as he points out, up for grabs. do you agree it's a smart move that trump bails on c-pac? >> all those single issue voters who vote on c-pac attendance, i don't think there's many of those. trump has more to gain by going to a rally in kansas and a rally in florida with all the press that will engender, bringing in people and supporters that way, then giving a speech at c-pac. there are some reports that the audience at c-pac is not the most friendly to trump this
year, so there's a potential even he gives a speev and he gets some boos. the risk of that doesn't seem very worth taking, especially when he has other alternatives like giving a speech in kansas. >> i'm not sure donald trump is worried about boos, kelly ann, what do you think about this? >> vnow i think donald trump ha more incoming fire on the debate stage in two hours with other contenders than what c-pac might say to him. it does send a wrong message to the grass root because this is the major gathering. mr. trump has been very well received in the c-pac in the past. last year, many standing ovations, huge reception for him. he did better in the straw poll last year than he had the year before we conducted it. frankly, it was 8:20 eastern time, so this is a man who doesn't need to take his shoes and belts off at the airport, he flies himself around, he basically could have done both. when he skipped the debate in iowa, it absolutely cost him votes. we saw that in our tracking
polls and he so much admitted that after he lost the iowa caucuses. when you -- voters will decide how important it was for him to show or not show at c-pac. voters have a funny way of saying you're either with me or you're not. conventions like c-pac right behind me are a great form of direct democracy. are foot individuals who can't pay to meet somebody at a fund-raiser or stand in line at a rally. he's making his decision. i certainly respect that. but it may not come without risk. >> i want to move away from c-pac and talk about the tone and tenure of the debate. you know where i'm going with this, but talking about your party, and listen, they're almost all guilty, i would say, except for governor kasich, and we'll talk to him live in a second. i'm not saying they're not all, but, you know, with regard to the size of hands and saying, you know -- one of the candidates saying breathe and count to ten and the flexible and the yoga, all these lines.
we're talking about the white house, secretary kovac, that is not okay. >> there's no question. the tone of this year's presidential contest has been like anybody we have seen before. the reason things intensified last night is, look, it's do and die time. you've got to re-establish the order. if i were advising cruz or rubio, i would say yes, this is when you take the gloves off. not to make a pun about the hands. the point is we've got to -- you're going to see this happening in the next week probably. maybe for the next few weeks. once we see what happens by the end of march, then we'll see if it's all over. >> maybe just come by the presumed nominee that is clinton. i don't know about that. let me get to some sound. the chairman of the rnc, ryne prebus.
he actually believes one of the candidates will hit the number before cleveland. here's rynes priebus. >> whoever the nominee is of our party, they're going to get the full backing and the 100% support of the republican party. if it did happen, which, again, i believe is highly unlikely. >> what are the odds it won't happen? >> i don't know, 85%, 90%. if that were to happen, obviously, we're sort inch territory that our party hasn't seen. again, highly, highly unlikely. >> jamie, you agree or no? >> i don't agree with him. there's only two options from my perspective at this point. one is, he is right, and donald trump goes into the convention with a 1237 delegates necessary to win it on the first ballot or he doesn't go into the convention and no one else has that number and there is a contested convention. i'm not sure this unifying around donald trump as the
nominee is as likely as we heard just there. i know we heard on the debate stage that everyone would support the nominee but mitt romney has said he will not support donald trump as the nominee. i find it really hard, even though what marco rubio said last night, they're going to turn around and say, we are going to support a guy we call the conman. someone we actually think is a con man. >> look at what chris christie has done. >> i don't think he'll be the nominee. >> kelly ann, final word. >> -- support the nominee. >> go ahead, kelly ann, final word from you. >> well, sure, i just want topd say that if people are serious about stopping donald trump, they have to get marco rubio, if not john kasich, to drop out and support cruz. there's no ballot out there, brooke, that says trump, cruz, rubio, kasich. not trump. none of the above. the ballots don't say that. the only way to stop mr. trump. these people are serious is through another person. you don't just stop him and say we'll figure out the rest later.
if the party or members even outside the party try to slide in someone who did not win delegates fair and squarely, the grassroots will revolt and i will be leading the stampede. >> chris, kelly ann conway, jamie, thank you so much. coming up next, this. >> scrums we're seeing here on the stage and penople say everywhere i go, you seem to be the adult on the stage. >> all eyes on ohio. is that state a must win for governor john kasich? so many questions we have for him. he will be joining me live next. your credit is in pretty good shape.
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for hillary clinton and bernie sanders, the debate stage they're about to step on could be the most politically charged yet. cnn face-off takes place in flint, michigan. after it was discovered the tap water there has been laced with toxic led. joining me now, brianna keilar, cnn political correspondent. brianna keilar there live in detroit.
what are you hearing from hillary clinton's camp as far as the strategy sunday? >> i think what they're expecting, we're learning this from campaign sources is that bernie sanders is going to come to play. they see this as really one of the last chances to make an impact. certainly facing an impossible battle to get hillary clinton out of the way on his effort to the nomination, and so they're expecting him to really try to come out with something big. so that's how they're preparing really to push back on him for that. i think also the preview they're getting of his message in michigan has to do with trade. he's been hitting here over and over for supporting nafta and a number of other free trade agreements. also the transpacific partnership, tpp, which you may have heard of, which she touted many times as secretary of state, ultimately though coming out against it as a candidate.
so that's one of the reasons why she's here, why she's courting labor support. this is a car parts manufacturing plant. she's going to be talking about bringing jobs back to america and benefits for companies that bring back research and development dollars. and also punishing companies that do the opposite. >> we've talked about and i remember, you know, when right ahead of one of the caulks or primaries, hillary clinton took a moment on a sunday to go to flint michigan. this is a story we've been highlighting here on cnn for a number of months. i'm just wondering how the story line of the people in flint, their plight, especially that of the children, will weave its way on to the stage sunday night. >> i think this is something that's going to be center stage. you've seen bernie sanders and hillary clinton both visit flint. hillary clinton has raised money for flint. i think what they're going to come with, perhaps we haven't heard before, is maybe some specific proposals. there's been certainly a lot of
blame i think for republican lawmakers and the republican governor. and so i think we're going to see exactly what they have to say to a national audience. certainly they've been courting a local audience in the weeks and months as they show they're trying to support the people of flint here. >> jamal simmons joining me, democratic strategist and principal of the raven group. jamal, brianna hits on the point that listen, sources are saying bernie sanders is coming to play sunday night. help sa he says he has the money. he says he's in it to win it through at least july. how do you see this playing out in your perspective? >> i think senator sanders has run a campaign, organizing young people, getting a lot of progressives involved, what he's doing online, what he's doing in the, you know, twitter verse has all been amazing. we haven't seen -- we didn't see in south carolina his ability to kind of convert that into real live bodies at polls.
i think that's something that -- that's something that's -- the people are going to be watching for, to see if he can convert in these big cities, these big states, like michigan and ohio, where somebody like hillary clinton has built-in advantages because of name recognition, history, all those things, so we'll watch how it plays out on sunday and going forward. >> ahead of sunday, you have, tomorrow, supersaturday. it's kansas, louisiana, new hampshire, they're all, you know, making their picks before the dems caucus in maine on sunday. how do you think this will play for both hillary clinton and bernie sanders? >> you know what's important about flint, it's not just what happened in flint, it's going to matter in michigan. being focused on flint, is something along with criminal justice, that african-americans in particular around the country have been focused on and also a lot of people who aren't african-americans but who are
worried about these children and the plight they face. so for democrats, this is one of those issues that gets that infrastructure, it gets that republican control, state government. it gets whether or not the children, how would they need from education and health perspective. it touches a lot of hot buttons and democratic constituencies. it will play for all of them. what they talk about tomorrow night or sunday night in flint will play all over the country for democrats. >> jamal simsimmons, brianna keilar, thank you very much, on the dems side. coming up next, will the republican race come down to florida and ohio? we will talk to ohio governor john kasich who has been so-called far in this race, especially after the debate last night, the only adult in the room. we'll talk to him live coming up.
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better nutrition. better eggs. on it nald trump out and about on the trail today in cadillac, michigan, again bringing up his hands. roll it. >> when chris christie went after him in the last debate previous, i never saw -- i'm standing here and i'm looking at marco and i'm saying, he okay? and i see the sweat pouring. and chris is going at him. and marco, you know, he's got that little flippant mouth but a lot of times it doesn't work under pressure. and marco is sweating, pouring down. and then he repeats himself once, twice, three times. i said, after the third time, i said, well, what's going on, four typeimes. and then a fifth time. i thought he was going down for the count. i wanted to show the size of my hands, how i could grab him, how
i could grab him. i could grab that guy. like nothing. hold him up. and i didn't want him to get hurt, hitting his head when he went down. but this is not what we need when we negotiate against china and putin all all of these killers, all right, it's not what we need. so anyway, but, but -- [ protesters shouting from audience ] get them out of here, get them out, get them out. are these rallies the most fun of everybody, right? we have the most fun. do we have the most fun? yeah, get him out of here. get him out. get him out. so disruptive. remember when bernie sanders -- >> that was moments ago in cadillac, michigan, mr. trump, one of the few remaining here who would like to be the next
president of the united states. someone else would like to take that from him, governor kasich of ohio, joins me now live from the conservative political action conference. just wrapped up his speech. governor, so wonderful to have you on, welcome. >> thank you very much. >> on your debate performance last night, ari fleisher, quote, kasich had the best night. mark halperin, you won. john kelly, i thought kasich came off as a breath of fresh air over a lot of arguing. governor, what does it feel like to be the adult in the room? >> well, it feels great. by the way, i just spoke to the conservative political action group, about 4,000 people, and i got great reception here. it's really exciting. because there are a lot of people out here saying is kasich really a conservative? i laid it out today and they responded with great enthusiasm. it was fantastic. >> governor, to be -- in addition to be on the stage in
detroit, when you hear what was being thrown around about the size of trump's hands and cruz telling him to count to ten. governor, this is the race for the white house, what is happening? >> well, you know, i'm controlling myself there, i'm just watching some of it, i just don't pay attention. i think the idea -- first of all, you're not going to beat trump by calling him names. you beat trump by being very concerned about the issues americans have. they're getting no interest from the banks where they put their money. their sons and daughters are living in their basement with a lot of debt from college. i get all that. and you got to have a specific plan to fix it. i've done it in washington.
a lot of these trump supporters when they get a chance to see me, a number of them are coming my way, which is really interesting. >> how do you know that? >> there was a focus group last night that i was invited to and there were three people interviewed, one, two, three. they all went into the focus group for trump and they came out and they were for kasich. it was their declaration. so we'll send you the clip so you can see it. it was pretty interesting. that's not a surprise to me. >> i'll take your word for it. >> no, i'll tell you why it's not a surprise. because i've never been the establishment. the fact of the matter is, balancing the budget, taking on the nursing homes in my state, frankly, a lot of people still do not know me because i don't call names but that's okay, i'm the last governor standing in
this race. >> you talk about the establishment. when you think about establishment you also think of mitt romney who gave that huge 20-minute speech, eviscerating indictment of donald trump yesterday from the university of utah, and from what i read, governor, you did have a conversation with him ahead of time. you did not love the idea of personally attacking mr. trump. can you share a little bit of that conversation you had with the former massachusetts governo governor? >> no, not really, look, i'm not in any coordinated effort with anybody. i'm still now down 1 of 4 and i'm going to win ohio. when i win ohio, it's going to be a whole new ball game and everybody better fasten their seat belts because we're in for an unbelievable conclusion to all of this. we're probably going to end up
at a convention. >> how are you feeling going into the all-important march 15th ohio? >> i feel good. i have to show people in ohio and, you know, ask them for their support and remind them of what we've achieved in the state and hopefully they'll come out and vote for me, i mean, it's really critical. i think if you can't win your own home state, i think you've got to think about calling it a day. >> so on that note, if you do not win, would you have a real, as we say in the south, come to jesus moment, i mean, would that potentially be the end for you? >> well, kind of have a come to jesus moment all the time every day. what's going to be interesting, we'll probably end up in awre brokered convention. i don't think that's likely to happen, and i think donald will fall short, so you're going to have a great time in cleveland.
the food's great, spend a lot of money, have a ball. >> great rock and roll hall of fame museum there as well, but let me stay on cleveland. >> yes, yes. >> would that be ideal, though, there was certainly that opening from mitt romney yesterday, the notion of a brokered convention. is that what you would be looking for? >> well, i'm just looking to perform. go to the eastern seaboard, go out west. i'm just saying that is a likely outcome. but it's not guaranteed. but i have to win ohio. i mean, that's what matters so much. and i think it's going to ultimately matter to many, many people in the republican party. so i'm going to give it my best, brooke, and we'll see what happens. i mean, you know, i'm trying as hard as i can and we're making a lot of progress. >> what did you make of governor -- of mitt romney saying, you know, listen, go vote for the candidate who's strongest in each state, go vote for john kasich in ohio, go vote for marco rubio in florida and down the line vote for ted cruz
potentially, is that the strategy you wanted to hear playing out on national television yesterday? >> i'm always for people saying they should vote for me, brooke if you would say go to ohio and vote for john kasich, i'd be thrilled. >> what about florida? >> of course i want endorsements. well, i mean, look, i'm going to be in florida. i'm going to spend the bulk of my time in ohio. i'm not sure i'm going to go to florida. that's all process. what i want to do is continue to tell people about my programs. that create jobs, improve wages, pay down debt, empower people where they live so we can fix america not just from the top down but the bottom up as well so when i'm talking about process, i'm not talking about the things that i think people really care about. >> final question, all these months on the road what has surprised you the most? >> the people have come to my town halls and i don't know by the grace of god i guess they
tell me some of the most intimate things that bother them in their life and they say it in front of other people where i guess they feel safe. and sometimes all they want is a hug. sometimes all they want is a picture. sometime all they want is for somebody to listen to them. there's a lot of lonely people in america and we need to reach out to them. it changed my life. it slowed me down. i'm a better man for it. >> ohio governor john kasich live there at c-pac, thank you so much, good luck. >> thank you, brooke, thank you. >> we'll be right back. you can fly across welcome town in minutes16, or across the globe in under an hour.
hero of 2016. his work is motivated by a troubling statistic. nearly half of all african-american children in the united states grow up without a steady father figure. sheldon smith was one of them. today he is helping dads like himself take a better path. >> i grew up broken. i wallace hurt. i was able to overcome all of those things. what i want for these young men is for them to be involved and engaged in their children's life, to give their children what i missed as a boy, which was a great father, someone who would be there for me and give me the advice i need to be a successful young man today. >> how does he do that? you can watch sheldon's story right now at cnn heroes.com. while you're there, nominate someone you think should be a 2016 cnn hero. next, much more on our breaking news here out of los angeles. police there testing a knife apparently found at o.j. simpson's former estate. what officials are saying about
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we are following what could be a massive bombshell in the o.j. simpson murder case from two decades ago. test ago knife reportedly found on the grounds of his home, the rockingham estates, where simpson lived at the time with his ex-wife and her friend ron goldman who were both slain in 1984. the murder weapon, a knife, was never, ever found, and here is what we have just heard from lapd. >> so this is what we know. about -- within the last month, lapd became aware of an item that was allegedly recovered by a citizen at the rockingham property possibly during the demolition of the site. we need to vet that. we still don't know if that's a accurate account of how this
item came into our possession. the actual item is described as a knife. i'm not going to go into the description of the knife because that could be germane to determining whether or not this actual piece of evidence is, in fact, evidence, or it's just a facsimile or made up story. >> the hollywood version of the simpson trial is now playing out on the cable network fx in the miniseries american crime story the people versus o.j. simpson. cnn's paul vercammen kicks it off from los angeles. more on what he heard from the los angeles, beginning with exactly what do we know about the knife, how long ago was it found, talk to me. >> well, brooke, they are saying that the knife was apparently found somewhere around 1998 when they were tearing down rockingham, the o.j. simpson matter, this of course is the version given to the lad by this retired officer. they will not be specific about
the knife, as you heard, they don't want to give away any evidence. however, when i said, was it a machete, a kitchen knife, a pen knife, they said it definitely was not a machete. somewhere in there, it has to fit the confines of that six-inch missing murder weapon because why else would they go so far as to hand it over to their detectives right now in the special investigations lab and look it over for anything that could possibly find that would be blood, that would be dna, that would possibly be if they're super lucky a fingerprint, anything of that nature. now, that other huge colossal mystery, brooke, is why in the world would a retired police officer -- >> hold on to the knife so long -- >> yes, why, why. so here's what captain nyman said when pressed on this, let's take a listen. >> i was really surprised. i would think an lapd officer, if this story is accurate, as we're being told, would know
that any time you are -- you come into contact with evidence, that you should and shall submit that to investigators. so i don't know what the circumstances are, why that didn't happen. or if that's entirely accurate. or if this whole story is possibly bogus from the get-go. >> and i think what he meant by bogus from the get-go is what if the construction worker simply shows up to this officer, who is doing movie duty, he's in uniform, but he's not on police duty, and what if he grabs a knife from home and says, hey, here's a knife, check it out. they certainly have to explore the possibility of that and they will also explore the possibility that this could be perhaps the most sensational and infamous missing murder weapon ever, brooke. >> could be nothing, could be everything. paul vercammen, thank you so much. in l.a. let me bring in the panel here. cnn legal analyst paul callan,
representing the estate of nicole simpson in the civil trial against o.j. simpson. also with us, lawrence cobilinski, john j college of criminal justice. also with me, criminal defense attorney tom mesereau. so welcome to all of you. larry kobilinski, i was talking to the retired police officer, led this whole investigation, he said to me, brooke, there have been so many knives found over the years. i have that in the back of my mind. that said, what can they look for with this knife? >> first of all, it's a forensic case at this point. you take the knife. you've got to photograph it, diagram it, make measurements, how wide is the blade, how wide is the handle, how wide is -- how long is the blade. all those measurements are made. then they're going to swab it. i doubt fingerprints are going to come into play here. it's been so long, it's been
buried for four years. so they will do -- they'll swab it, they'll do some presumptive tests for blood which may or may not come back positive. they will then dna test it. if they get any results, it might be a single source, a multiple source. of course they have to make -- if they get any results, they have to make a comparison to the two victims or anybody else who handled the knife, the construction worker, the cop, multiple people must have handled this knife. so it's not clear they're going to get any kind of dna evidence because soil, if it was buried in soil, soil contains humic acid which deteriorates, it denatures dna, so they may have nothing, or they may have everything. we talk about mysteries and puzzles. this is the piece that's missing. >> murder weapon. >> if this turns out to be the murder weapon, wow, the most significant piece of evidence of the last two decades. >> a massive, massive wow.
o.j. simpson, double jeopardy, hello. >> well, you know, double jeopardy is going to prevent his retrial. i didn't write "american tragedy," that book. there's a chapter relating to my involvement in the trial. lawrence schiller is the author of the book. >> appreciate that. >> any event -- >> sorry about that. >> first of all, happen to think, having tried a lot of murder cases, it's virtually impossible to believe they're going to find anything on this knife that would give you a piece of evidence that could be used against o.j., even if he could be retried. the doctrine of double jeopardy really is going to prevent any possibility of a retrial. there are some obscure theories maybe you could come up with some charge that wasn't charged initially. in the real world, that is never going to happen. >> tom mesereau do you agree? never, never, never? >> i do agree with paul. i must say this, even though it's highly unlikely he would ever be tried again, there was a case a number of decades ago in
los angeles where state prosecutors repeatedly tried to convict someone of murder. they fail. and the u.s. attorneys office in los angeles carved out a civil rights violation, charged criminally and convicted him. so i'm not going to say it's absolutely impossible but it's highly unlikely. >> okay, and tom, let me stay on you. because i'm also thinking about this. i don't know if he was retired at the time or off duty. this officer handed the knife from some construction worker allegedly held on to it for a little too long. could he eventually get in trouble if it ends up being the knife for withholding evidence? >> that was my first thought, how could a retired lapd officer who knows all about this case and just how riveted the country was to it and how important the case was for many reasons, good and bad, how can you possibly withhold evidence like this. i think the answer is he could. i don't know if they want to bother with it, but i think he very likely could. >> paul, with your involvement in the civil case, you knew the
players and the family members. yes, maybe knives have been found in the past. this has to dredge up so much for city of l.a., lapd, mean, this splintered the nation in the mid to late '90s. >> well, it did. they called it the crime trial century. it was the racial aspect of it. wipts we whites were shocked when african-americans cheered his acquittal. i happen to think the evidence of his guilt was overwhelming. however, he was acquitted by the dream team and now of course we have this tv series. >> if anything, gives it a ratings bump, all this news, right? >> what a coincidence that all of a sudden the knife would be found in the middle of the tv series, it sounds like a made in hollywood knife discovery, if you know what i mean. so i'm very suspicious about it. and i'd like to see more evidence here that it's really the knife. and even then, i still think almost impossible to retry o.j. >> the pathologist looked at the
wounds on both goldman and brown. you can see whether the knife is serrated, i think it was serrated. whether it was single sided, the blade, was it one blade or double-edged. there are lots of things, just from looking at the murder -- >> but bear in mind, it's the rockingham estate where o.j. lived, all right, so if o.j.'s dna is on it, well, it's his house, all right. she used to visit him there so he could come up and say well, you know, her dna might be on it, she cooked for me from time to time when she visited. so the dna you need to see is ron goldman's dna. that would be the dna that would really link it back to the murder. so that's what we have to see. >> okay, okay, thank you. tom mesereau, thank you very much. for us in los angeles, i appreciate all of that. again, could be nothing, could be everything. meantime, politics, major developments in the race for the white house today.
donald trump we have just learned has decided not to appear at the c-pac conference this weekend. also, does it all come down to florida and ohio? senator rubio and governor kasich's home states. will these two key battleground states really determine who could ultimately win the nomination for the republicans? also happening right now, hillary clinton out and about in michigan and detroit. we will talk about what's at stake for her ahead of cnn's big democratic debate in flint, michigan this sunday night. twell what if i told you that peanuts can work for you? that's right. i'm talking full time delivery of 7 grams of protein and 6 essential nutrients. ever see a peanut take a day off?
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you see the photo, you know where i'm going there, defending the size of his hands on the debate stage last night. a counterpunch, he says, to correct the record from marco rubio, who said he had small hands. and then today, cnn con firmed trump is indeed skipping this influential conservative conference c-pac happening this weekend. marco rubio seizing on trump's last-minute cancellation. >> he's not a conservative. i mean, donald trump basically has policy positions that are indistinguishable from democrats. he has a long history of supporting abortion rights. he's a staunch defender of planned parenthood. has a very comes to the second amendment. you name it, on issue after issue, he thinks he's not going to take sides on israel which is distinguishable from the position, probably even worse than the position the president's taken. you look at it, he really doesn't belong at a conservative rally. donald trump is not a conservative. >> let's pose those thoughts to
jeff dewitt, arizona state treasury, who endorses trump, and jenny, chairman of the superpac that supports ted cruz. great to have both of you, welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> jeff, let me begin with you, the trump supporter here. i was reading the statement, he's pulling out of c-pac but says listen, hopefully next year i will be there as president of the united states. marco rubio saying i'm not surprised this guy's not a conservative, your response to that? >> well, the reason we're pulling out has nothing to do with conservative, it's called kansas, kansas, kansas. we're planning a very big rally in wichita, kansas, and then go on to see over 20,000 people in florida. with the opportunity now to deal a knockout blow to marco rubio after his poor performance in the debate and donald trump's great performance, we had to adjust and go for it. if we can get this campaign done
sooner, and there's certainly blood in the water right now, we want to do it and taking the 40 delegates kansas has to offer, something we have to do. c-pac is great. donald trump has spoken there before and he lopes to speak there obviously next year and many times thereafter but just the way scheduling goes when you're in the middle of a presidential campaign, these things come up be but we're going to have a wonderful event, event in wichita, kansas, and if you're in kansas, we invite you to join us. >> okay, so kansas hearing you loud and clear. you're at c-pac. i'm curious if the news has reached the folks in attendance and their reaction, do they care? >> i think there are people who are disappointed. but they're looking forward to hearing the other speakers they've got lined up this afternoon. marco ruin you will be here tomorrow and they'll look at these conservative speakers.
i spoke earlier this morning and talked about trump's record and how he is not a tea party person. many different issues from supporting the largest tax increase in history to saying he's for tax cuts now. he always looks out for what's best for trump. that's not what the tea party stands for. we want people to look out for our freedom and our constitution above their own self-interest. >> it's not just donald trump, the attacks were fast and furious from both cruz and rubio especially. here are the highlights, low lights from the debate. >> just like he's conned people into giving him their money.
>> ever heard of trump stakes -- >> if we nominate donald, we're going to spend the spring, the fall and the summer with the republican nominee facing a fraud trial. i know it's hard, i know it's hard. >> when they're done with the yoga, can i answer a question? >> you cannot. i really hope that we don't see yoga on this stage. >> we, he's very flexible so you never know. >> jeff, jeff, this is your party, these are the fine gentleman who would like to be the next president of the united states. what is happening here? >> well, first off, we've had so many debates. i don't know what anyone's getting out of all these debates. everybody has obviously got all their guns trained on trump. he emerges every single time as the far and away winner and he
did once again. quite frankly, i'll tell you who came in second place last night, donald trump far andway first place. second place went to ben carson for not showing up. he obviously took second place because the other candidate did so poorly in their scripted attacks. help obviously looks the most presidential and that's why we're pulling back right now. >> i know you want to get in and respond to that. >> i'm really glad i was at c-pac and not at home, would not have wanted to explain that to my son and daughter. people in this country are very angry. constantly making deals that grows the size of government and that leave us stuck holding the bag. donald trump is definitely tapping into that. the fact is, we need somebody who's not just going to tap into
our anger but who wants to solve the problem. looking at our principles that have always made america great and that's our constitution. i think ted cruz is the alternative to that. how are we going to solve the problems so that the people who are angry have faith in america again? i understand that anger. seven years ago, i took to streets out of anger with my government. i completely understand that anger. i'm glad that we have someone like ted cruz who has consistently kept his promises and stuck to principles. >> i think, jeff, awe great point, about the dirt, the substance of these debates. specifically when it companies to the u.s. military and on water boarding. this was trump earlier today. >> throughout the middle east,
they're chopping off heads of christian, chopping off heads of people, anybody who gets in the way. they're drowning 30, 40 people at a time in heavy steel cages. as far as i'm concern, water boarding is absolutely fine but we should go much further. i got a standing ovation, standing ovation. >> then he followed up later today. quote, i will use every power i have to stop these terrorist enemies. i do, however, understand, that the united states is bound by laws and treaties and will not order our military or other officials to violate their laws and will seek their advice on such matters. i will not order a military officer to disobey the law. it is clear, as president, i will be bound by laws just like all americans and i will meet those responsibilities. i mean, cue the critics, jeff, already saying con man, flip-flop, mixed messages here. how do you respond to that?
>> if you want to call someone a conman, look at the first-term senators that have done nothing, nothing in their lives except be longtime politicians and lawyers. >> don't put it on the senators, stay on donald trump and what he said about water boarding. >> okay, donald trump is the only one to solve problems ever. he's one of the most successful businesspeople of all time. i think we're just -- we're looking at a very frustrated public that is sick of us sending our very brave men and women into harm's way and tying their hands behind their back. so we're sending them into some of the worst areas of the world -- >> he's gone from one extreme to the other. >> he was very specific in what he meant by the comment. i think that puts it to bed and shows mr. trump is the strongest on the military. so it sums it up perfectly as to
why everybody is getting on board with trump. >> jenny bath, you get last word. >> obeying the law and the constitution should not be an afterthought. obeying the constitution should be at the top of your mind. we need a president who does that and does it first above all else. >> jenny bath martin, jeff dewid dewit, thank you, both of you. next, hillary clinton, here she is live pictures, speaking in michigan. the big democratic debate in flint, michigan, this upcoming sunday night.
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just in to cnn, the mayor of flint, michigan, just announcing the city has kicked off a $55 million program to replace lead contaminated pipes in the city's water system. we are learning more about the human toll of this water crisis that is still happening right now. my colleague sara sidener spoke with a woman who said she paid the ultimate price for drinking the lead contaminated water the price being the death of her unborn children. >> hope you all just get that on. yeah, put that one on. >> she moved to flint with her family in 2014 just as the city changed to a different water supply. wakes eventually became pregnant with twins and was using the tap water like everyone else. >> i noticed that every time
that i took a shower or took a bath, i would have breakouts. >> then at five weeks pregnant, she miscarried one of the twin babies. but the other survived. >> like, you know, this is going to be my miracle child. >> then at 13 weeks, she miscarried again. her sorrow turned to rage when she returned from the hospital. >> i come home and look at my mailbox and i see something from the city of flint saying that pregnant women and people 55 and over should not be drinking this water. and i'm like are you serious? and i'm just coming home to losing my babies and now it could have been the water that did this. >> residents still had no idea lead was leaching into their tap water. when wakes finally did hear about the lead, she had her children tested. both had lead in their bloodstream. then wakes found out lead in pregnant women can cause miscarriages.
no one knows for sure if that's what happened to wakes. michigan state officials are now investigating whether the water crisis has had any effect on the number of miscarriages in flint. in the mean tie, the fury of residents is only growing. with the recent emays released by the governor's office, even before lead was discovered in the water supply, one exchange revealed some of his top aides warned there were problems with the water suly and it should be switched back asap. in 2014, the governor's deputy council and senior policy adviser e-mails his chief of staff and several others saying they should stop using the flirt river as a water source due to health concerns. i see this as an urgent matter to fix, she writes. minutes later the governor's legal council responds by say, my mom is a city resident, the notion that i would be getting my drinking water from the flint river is downright scary. it took a full year before
officials made the switch. back to the original safer water supply. what should happen to the people responsible? >> i really feel like they should be incarcerated. resign is really like a slap in the face to me. >> put in jail? >> yes, i think they should be put in jail. >> the crisis there in flint will be a major thread there in our democratic presidential debate this sunday night live here on cnn, 8:00 eastern, definitely tune in for that, please. coming up next, i'll be joined live by a man supporting donald trump for a very personal reason. his son was murdered by an undocumented immigrant and ever since he has been on a crusade to get immigration laws changed in this country. we'll talk to him about when he met donald trump and his story and role in a recent trump ad come up.
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support behind republican front-runner donald trump. he publicly endorsed mr. trump last summer and is now featured in a trump campaign ad. >>
i'm donald trump and i approve this message. >> a 17-year-old football star gunned down joust side his home. his killer, an illegal immigrant who just got out of prison. he is supporting trump for president because he knows he will end illegal immigration. >> trump is the only one saying you're going to be dealt with, we're going to enforce that. that's a beautiful thing. i believe donald trump wants to make us great again and he loves america. >> shaw's son, 17-year-old jamal shaw jr., was murdered in cold blood eight years ago, three doors from his home, by an undocumented immigrant, and shaw's father actually heard the gunshots. his mother, an army sergeant, was in iraq at the time on her second tour of duty. the man convicted of shaw's murder, pedro espinoza, now sits
on california's death row. he was released from jail days before the killing. jamal shaw sr. joins me now live from los angeles. mr. shaw, thank you so much for joining me. i know it was eight years ago, but my condolences for the loss of your son. >> oh, thank you, yes. seems like yesterday, eight years is -- that doesn't mean nothing. >> can't begin to imagine. can you tell me a little bit about him, first of all, can you tell me what happened? >> yeah, he was a good kid, you know, just moving on to his teenage years, you know. we were -- he was mvp, three-time mvp, player of the year, all-city, getting recruited, a lot of small schools. he thought he had, you know, he thought he did something really good. he stayed out of trouble, no gangs, never been arrested, never been suspended from school, had his grades intact. he believed in the dream. he was, like, getting ready to cash in on all that hard work, all that training, everything he
had to do to keep his mom and dad happy. he made it. he was right on the cusp so to speak of doing something really great for himself. along came illegal alien gang banger, documented gang banger, on his third gun charge. i mean, come on, you got illegal alien on his third gun charge and nobody calls i.c.e., they release him on a saturday night, sunday, he's in my neighborhood, looking for blacks to kill, and shoots him in his stomach, shoots him in the head. i mean, come on that boy didn't deserve that. i was home when it happened. just called him on the phone, hey, where are you, right around the corner. i hear two gunshots. i'm like, oh, my god, don't tell me this boy is dead. i go outside and look and he's laying in the street. come on. and find out somebody illegal in the country on their third gun charge, documented gang banger, nobody calls i.c.e. we were promised that from obama. obama said if you let me do what i want to do, i'm going to go after those guys. i'm not going to let those guys
stay around here. he was released from jail. come on. on his third gun charge. that's unacceptable. >> he now sits on california's death row. that was 2008. fast forward now to this current presidential election. here you -- you met donald trump. tell me when you first met him. >> oh, when i saw him on tv, when he came out and said what he was going to do when he caught illegal aliens, rapists. like saying, hell, excuse me, what about the murderers? my son was murdered. people on his case saying about rapists. i'm like, rape is really bad. murder is worse than that. i saw that and i was on the "fox & friends show," he saw me, we talked, and, hey, ever since then, i believe he wants to do what he says he's going to do. i've met him. i've talked to him. he had a good talk. when i explained what happened to my son, the look on his face was the look of people who i
seen, that's bad. he doesn't want that to happen to him. >> when the campaign approached you as far as putting your son's story in the ad, did you for any second hesitate, for fear of, you know, your son's murder being politicized whatsoever? >> let's talk about it, you know, the boy's dead. he's not the only one. he had thousands of people have the same problem i'm having. but for some reason i'm the one. i don't know. i didn't expect it. i don't want this. i just happen to be the one. so i got to try to live for all these dead people and try to get something done for all the families that are out there thinking what about us what about us. so i'm living for my son. i'm living for all the people. and trump wants to do something. he wants to do something. they came to me -- >> forgive me for jumping in, but i have to jump in for the critics of donald trump who would say he is a xena phone, he is a racist, he has offended every sort of section of
humanity, you know, you stand so strong with him. what will you tell those critics? >> well, how many times have i been to washington, d.c. three times and spoke before congress. i spoke in the state capital. l.a. board supervisors, city council. none of them give a damn. nobody cares. so it's like what would you do? i tell people all the type what would you do if someone did someone in your family like that? what would you expect of someone running for office to do? if he heard there's americans being murdered by illegals? he's supposed to do what he's talking about. we were promised this by paul ryan, i mean, pretty much mitch mcconnell, every politician in the united states pretty much said they were going to do the exact thing trump says he's going to do. they never did it. >> you believe donald trump, there will be true follow-through. jamal shaw, thank you so much for sharing your story. >> we believe h donald trump wants to be
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welcome back, i'm brooke baldwin. ohio could change everything, that is the hope at least, john kasich, ohio's governor, who says when, not if, he wins his home state primary, march 15th, he sees the possibility of a broked convention. if his voice is resonating among the voices of his rivals. he told me taking the high road has actually prompted some trump supporters to turn to kasich supporters. on the stage last night in detroit, i mean, when you hear what was being thrown around about the size of trump's hands and cruz telling him to breathe and count to ten and rubio's line about yoga and being flexible. governor this is the race for the white house, what is happening? >> well, you know, i'm controlling myself there. i just kind of watch some of it.
i don't pay that much attention. i just do think that the idea, first of all, you're not going to beat trump by calling him names. you beat trump with the record and the vision that can respond to the very deep concerns that americans have. and they are worried about their jobs. they haven't had a wage increase. they're getting no interest from the bankings where they put their money. their sons and daughters are living in their basement with a lot of debt from college. i get all that. >> how are you feeling going into the all-important march 15th ohio? >> i feel good. we have to work there. i have to show people in ohio that, you know, and ask them for their support and remind them of what they've achieved in the state and hopefully they'll come out and vote for me. it's really critical. if you can't win your own home state, i think you've got to think about calling it a day. >> so on >> so on that note, if you do not win, would you have a real
jesus moment? would that potentially be the end for you? >> well, i kind of have a come to jesus moment all the time every day, you know. look, we're going to win ohio so what's going to be interesting is we're probably going to ending up in a brokered convention. >> final question, all these months on the road, on the trail, what has surprised you the most? >> no question about it that people have come to my town halls and i don't know by the grace of god, i guess, they tell me some of the most intimate things that bother them in their life and they say it in front of other people, where i guess they feel safe. and sometimes all they want is a hug. sometimes all they want is a picture. sometimes all they want is for somebody to listen to them. and you know, i found there's a lot of lonely people in america and we need to reach out to them. i've just been privileged to see this happen. it's changed my life, it's slowed me down and i'm a better man for it. >> governor kasich at cpac,
thanks for swinging by. meantime the republican debates may have hit a new all-time low, but news flash, politics have always been quite nasty. one of the historians featured in the race for the white house joins me live to take a look back at the dirty campaign between john f. kennedy and richard nixon. when i lay in my tempur-pedic contour-
all right. this year's presidential race may go down as one of the naftiest in history but it's in good company. a new series "race for the white house" chronicles the six most down and dirty fights. the focus is on kennedy and nixon, a scandalous campaign that shocked the world. >> kennedy had serious health problems. addison's disease. he had a hormonal deficiency that could have killed him. in fact his father put medicine in safe deposit vaults all over the united states so that kennedy would never run short. so what johnson does is he makes it a campaign issue. the kennedy forces denied it
vociferously and had doctors say that he was above average in health and energy and vitality and he had never had so-called addison's disease and they lied through their teeth. >> lying in politics? get out of here. joining me now one of the experts featured in that clip, author of "george h.w. bush," professor at nyu, the title goes on. >> titles. >> titles, shitles, it matters. you know your stuff. we're talking about the past. had some of this come out about kennedy, could that have changed the future? >> there's no -- first -- the first thing is the press, the media handled their business differently now than they did in 1960. in 1960, there were people out there who were saying that john f. kennedy had affairs. the press didn't cover it at all. the press felt that your private
life was none of your business. these days we talk about the size of people's hands. then they wouldn't talk about his affairs. secondly, nobody, nobody followed up on what came out in the convention about kennedy's illness. it was lyndon johnson. lyndon johnson who was senate majority leader, lyndon johnson thought he was going to win in 1960. in the '60 campaign the primaries didn't matter as much. john f. kennedy went into the primaries to show the bosses of the democratic party that he was a winner and that he should be taken seriously. but you couldn't win enough delegates in the primaries in 1960 to be the nominee. so he didn't know that he would win. lbj thought he might win. to mess things up in the summer of 1960, his people spread the rumor, which turned out to be true, that john f. kennedy had
addison's disease and was not a well man. now, in that era, john f. kennedy denied it. the kennedy people denied it and the press accepted it. of course things are different now. you couldn't do it that way anymore. but in 1960 you could because there was a sense that your private life was private. >> the televised debate, that nixon/kennedy debate, the sweat. that made all the difference. 60 seconds. >> okay. the thing about it is that richard nixon thought he was a better debater than john f. kennedy. he had been a championship debater in college and high school. he also thought he understood television better than any other american politician. he had used television to save his job as a running mate with dwight eisenhower in 1952. he had used television in 1959. in 1960 his people supported the kennedy push for supports. its did he know that under pressure he couldn't do it. that nixon under pressure looked worse than kennedy.
>> can you please come back over appeared over and over again? i would love to have you back because i would love to hear you marinate on what's happening currently and compare it to the past. do not miss it sunday. "the lead" starts now. >> thank you, brooke baldwin. so you know that thing about torturing terrorists and killing their families? today donald trump says never mind. "the lead" starts right now. a desperate all-out effort to stop donald trump continues today on the campaign trail after the gop race dives to an even lower level of locker room humor. he called donald trump a danger to america's future, so could mitt romney be the man to save his party from trump? the answer, a brand new interview with the 2012 runner-up. plus from the bloody glove to a buried knife? the shocking news today about