tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN March 24, 2016 11:00am-1:01pm PDT
which is name and shame countries that carry out these attacks. >> thanks for that update. evan perez. thanks very much for watching. i'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "the situation room." the news continues right now right here on cnn. here we go, i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for being with me here on this thursday. breaking news. an intense manhunt under way for these two suspected terrorists in the brussels attacks. one of them truly just a mystery, believed to be part of that attack on metro that left this devastation and killed at least 20 people. authorities are looking for a man caught on surveillance video carrying a large bag. where that individual is, if that individual is alive, authorities don't know. security forces are also on the hunt for this man, we talked a lot about him, they believe he is on the run after leaving the
largest bomb at the airport. meanwhile, we are learning more about the others who carried out these attacks. authorities believe an isis bomb maker, the man you see on the left side in this image from the airport was killed in that attack, but it is the man next to him who is the subject of some controversy today. in a shocking revelation, turkey says it warned european authorities about him last summer when they arrested him and deported him. belgium's interior minister admitting today his country may have, quote, missed a chance to stop this attacker. he and the justice minister have offered to resign because of this. these attacks have just taken a terrible toll. we have at least 31 people who have been killed and the belgium crisis center has raised the number of injured to 300. my colleague in brussels erin burnett with the latest there.
erin, tell us what you're learning. >> here on the ground you have this intense manhunt going on. at one point earlier, there were a couple of raids. kind of brings back those memories we all have of being in paris. very much a race against time as they're trying to find these two men. they don't know, have they gone down together, are they regrouping, do they have more explosivings in addition to the 30 pounds of tapt found that apartment. 30 pounds of tatp is a massive amount that could kill thousands of people. i'm here with michael holmes who has been reporting on this. it's a city going about it's business but there are many stores going about their business. i was out in molenbeek where a lot of these men live. it was very muted there today. there were additional raids. it is a race against time. if the noose does tighten on those two men they're looking for, will they strike again and
soon? >> that is a concern. we heard from belgium prosecutors yesterday there could be more than these two. you've got the guy, the supposed second bomber or second involved person at the metro station, then you've got the man in the hat, the man in that white jacket in the hat at the airport who left the suitcase full of explosives and it didn't go off and he left. the belgium prosecutors are saying there could be more. there's several people they think could be out there. >> of course going through that neighborhood, you know, you talk to people, they're not surprised. people harbor these people. people are hiding these people. they say of course that's what they're doing. people are providing them money, people are providing them food, and all of these things are happening. the big development today is this manhunt is now -- they're looking for a lot of people. they're trying to figure out the names. one of the people they're looking for was in the metro station. you actually spoke to somebody who saw that man. >> we have checked out his story. it seems to be very credible.
his name is eric panina. he was in the metro station and says he came across a man with a big black bag sweating profusely, waiting to go down into that metro station, and he said he was worried about him as soon as he saw him. listen to part of what he had to say to me today. >> two minutes later, explode, the metro. i heard a big explosion. i saw people with all the -- blood everywhere. >> all the injuries. >> injuries. before that, i go outside, i tried to go outside, but i saw -- when i come down, saw some guy, 25, 24, 30, i don't know the age exactly. he had a big bag. he was very nervous. >> sweating? >> sweating like he was very
nervous. and he was back and forth in the metro hall, back and forth, back and forth. >> nervous, sweating, going back and forth. >> and what happened then, the guy goes downstairs with that bag. our guy hears the explosion. he's still upstairs. the same guy comes back out. now he looks calm. everyone else is panicking. this guy just walks away. eric was interviewed by the police. he gave a description and they came up with a composite drawing and that's the composite drawing police initially released. >> what we're looking at is the description of this man. >> the man. >> this is who he saw? >> exactly. he was shown a variety of photographs. he picked one guy out of that and the police were pleased when he picked that one guy. now, the police aren't commenting. they're not going to try to tip
this guy off. eric is now convinced he saw that second bomber. >> we don't yet know the second bomber's name of course. >> no. >> it does show not just how quickly moving this is today but this desperate race against time. there was two brothers. one suicide bomber at the airport. one at the metro station. now all of a sudden days after the attacks, they say, wait, there was someone else on the metro station on the loose. >> they didn't know that until they spoke to eric. and then they looked at surveillance video. they've seen this guy now on surveillance video who had the bag. eric says sweating profusely. he tried to get by the guy and the guy said get away from me. comes back up, no bag, calm, walks away. >> you know, brooke, it's incredible what michael's skrip describing. but also going to the neighborhoods where they've conducted these raids, looking for these men, where they found
salah abdeslam. but business as normal today. they're not shutting down these neighborhoods. they're not doing that. which is, again, still a bit shocking i think for many around the world watching and watching the clock on this, brooke. >> absolutely it is. michael holmes and erin burnett, thank you. we'll chat again in a moment. want to bring in our guest, former fbi supervisory special agent, served on the joint terrorism task force, carried out a number of high-level negotiations, also the author of "the black banner, inside story of 9/11 and the war against al qaeda." ali, welcome back to you. >> always great to be back. >> as i'm watching this play out in belgium and beyond i'm mindful of abdeslam, this eighth paris attacker, who was taken last friday. as he's being integrated and not being cooperative sort of suddenly, would he be told, would he be made aware this attack perhaps he was hoping to be a part of was carried out? >> this is an assessment by the
interrogators. nobody can tell them about the dynamics inside the interrogation room than them. so sometimes for example when i was integrating suspect, terrorism suspect, i told them what happened because i thought that can help further bring them to what i want them to be. >> why? >> i'll give you an example. 9/11. a perfect example. bin laden's personal bodyguard, right, he knew that 9/11 happened but he did not know any more details about the people who were involved, the suspected hijackers at the time. were not sure they were hijackers. and he went on a rant saying this is the work of the mousad and it's not the work of osama bin laden. he started identifying people he did not know were hijacker because he wasn't aware of all these things. we told him that all these people were involved in 9/11, that bin laden actually went
crazy, that he did 9/11. and that was a moment where he totally broke down and he opened up. >> that's fascinating. >> so there are so many different dynamics of that interrogation room that you have to play this mental chess game with these individuals. >> if you have this person in front of you and when is the sole survivor of the horrendous coordinated attacks november 13th of last year, what is your priority list? top one, two and three items you want to get out of him to stop this from happening? >> number one, is there anything else being planned? where is the safe houses? where are the people who were involved? number two, map the threat. anyone he knows of, not only in belgium, but also across europe, who was with him in syria and came back as of a cell. there's a possibility he knows. there's also a possibility he only knows about his own self. he probably only knows about the
people who was involved in the operation he was supposed to be killed at, you know, november 13th, him and his brother. now there's a possibility he know a little bit of this cell. possibly not about the details of the operation. >> he would purposely be kept in the dark? >> there's a possibility about that. nobody would know that more than the officers. more than the people investigating this. the evidence will lead them into understanding what's going on and putting the pieces together. >> we know they're raiding these safe houses within these different neighborhoods. what is the role of a safe house? >> it's a place to hide. it's a place to operate. it's a place to , you know, pla things. >> what do they keep in the safe houses? >> well, you know, sometimes, you know, we had incidents, for example, where the safe house was nothing but a place to keep suicide bombers until the operation happens. we have another place where the safe house was a place to meet
and to gather and to plan. some other places, we had situation, where the safe house was a place where they made the bomb and prepare the suicide bombers or prepare the -- to carry out the operation. we had a place where the safe house was where they had the last breakfast together before they go, before they went and conducted the terrorist attack so, you know, it's a place where they operate and they feel safe when they're operating. >> you wrote a piece in the guardian and you gave us a preview the other day when you were sitting right here and said the issue in europe is terrorists are more free flowing than information. how do we fix that? >> the threat in europe is very different than the threat in the united states. comparing the threat in europe to the threat in the united states is literally comparing apples and oranges. it's both fruits but two different types of fruit. >> got you. >> in europe, you have a situation where you have about 5,000 citizens of western
countries who went and joined different groups in syria and iraq. 20% of them came back. so this by itself is a huge threat. you have a situation where small intelligence services cannot cope with covering all these individuals who came back. so they need to pull their resources told. >> why didn't they do that after paris? >> well, you know, that's a good question. because what happened in paris, they met, the ministers of interior of the eu, after the paris attack, and we thought they're going to make some legal changes in their internal laws to better share information with each other. in europe, for example, they're not allowed because of the legal system to share information about their citizens with each other. so i'll give you an example. the shooter at the holocaust museum in belgium, he's french. help was known to the french services. he went to syria.
he didn't come back to france because he would most probably be stopped at the airport. he went back to germany, then conducted the terrorist attack in belgium, then went back to france. he came back to the continent virtual undetected. >> it sounds like they are communicating -- i guess this is my final thought. the fact that one of these bombers apparently was arrested and deported, arrested in turkey and the belgium interior minister is now saying, well, we might have missed our opportunity. we could prevented at least this individual from being involved in the attack. sob continued. thank you so much for your time. coming up next here, this taxi driver trying to find his son in the airport filmed the horrifying moment after the attacks. you will see with your own eyes what he discovered. plus, it's called the mother of satan. experts say it was used in these coordinated attacks as it has been in attacks past.
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i'm erin burnett live in brussels. been called a ticking time bomb. there's some 5,000 europeans radicalized, traveled to syria, may, in fact, be here, be home, planning. in an interview with the bbc, the chief of europol warning the threat is much bigger than france, much bigger than belgium. this is the senior eu correspondent for politico. that is a pretty terrifying thing to say. we know here in this country as a portion of the population more young men have gone to join isis than any other country in europe, and yet he's saying at least 5,000 of them are home and could be planning attacks, in
fact, they say it's a much bigger threat than france and belgium. >> and countries that have very strict laws in place, we don't actually know where those people are, there's no system to track them. there's no system to find out what they've come back to do, why they left the other people behind in syria, how they become radicalized in the first place. there's literally no monitoring. and that's the scarest thing of all. we need to ask ourselves what are they doing at this moment in the immediate aftermath of this attack. >> which now with literally this race against time and they're conducting these raids throughout this city but these two men who are on the run and obviously there are many more than just this cell but they could be planning something. i was in molenbeek and this young man, he has the same name as one of the paris attackers which he says is causing him to not be able to get a job. he has 10 to 15 friends who have gone to syria to join isis.
he says, don't criticize us for not telling the police. we're discriminated against in this country. when we do tell them, they don't care. they don't care when you go to syria. >> the nature or the cause of that is -- the thinking is we want this off our plate. >> if they go to syria, they won't come back? >> exactly. it's a one-way street. but actually we're dealing with a two-way highway in this situation. and so i've heard stories as well of a mother who knew her son was going to travel to syria, knew when she was going to travel. she essentially turned him into the police and they said, he's an adult, he's a free individual, we can't stop him from making these choices. he's now dead in syria so luckily he wasn't able to come back and cause any further damage. you have to wonder when does it become negligence when the police have that attitude. >> today they offered their resignations over the fact they were alerted and did nothing and then the resignations aren't even accepted. if this were not life and death,
you know, people would say it was a bit of a farce in some ways. >> that's the feedback i get when my sources contact me. what i'm looking at on twitter is people feel like this is going from the ridiculous to the more ridiculous at some levels. what is different today is the ministers have actually been fronting up to the cameras. i think that is some level of dialogue. >> and accountability. >> yes, exactly, i look around here at the square, all of the tv setups here, and i didn't see any ministers here yesterday explaining what they were doing to fix the problem what they had done to limit the problem in the first place and that worried me. there's a little turnaround today. you have to wonder what were these resignations about. the people resigning didn't push hard to walk away and the prime minister certainly didn't decide he was going to use them as an example to say there is a price when the correct actions are not taken. >> brooke, later on, we're going to hear the full interview with this young man i met, but, you know, it's interesting and i asked him why haven't you joined isis and he said, well, because i have ambition. he said, i understand, i want to
fight for my brothers in syria and in palestine, as he said it, but i don't want to do it that way. i don't think that killing people is the solution. but he said i do understand why people go. very sobering and chilling conversation. >> he does understand but he's choosing not to. erin burnett, thank you. meantime, coming up next, he could hold a treasure trove of information. cnn learning the paris terror suspect salah abdeslam who spent four months on the run before being captured last week no longer is cooperating with law enforcement. why he's gone quiet and what his defense attorney's now revealing next. also, it is apparently the bomb of choice among some of these terror cells, explosive tatp, its nickname, mother of satan, now found in the hideout of at least one of these suicide bombers there in belgium. what that says about the capability of these terrorists. we'll be right back.
back to our breaking news, taking you back to coverage in belgium. the prime minister there took to social media to describe how his country is in shock and how the quote/unquote apock leaptic images of the terror attacks are seared into the world's memory. a taxi driver rushed inside and recorded the aftermath while
looking for his own son. john berman walks us through the chilling scene. i have to warn you what you're about to see is extraordinarily disturbing. here you go. >> the first thing you hear are the screams. presumably the wounded crying for help. debris is everywhere, making it hard for rescue workers to get around. fires still burning from the blast. bodies buried under the rebel.
the taxi driver who shot this video reaches the food stand where his son worked only to find it deserted. outside the terminal, survivors wait for help. those who are able lend comfort to the wounded. though many inside did not survive. amid the wreckage and debris, a single flower. perhaps a welcome home for an arriving passenger. now buried among the shattered remains of this terror attack. john berman, cnn, new york.
>> that is so tough to watch. that is the reality that faced so many people in that airport two mornings ago and that scene in that terminal was most likely caused by the explosive tatp, its nickname, satan. it has become the focal point of the brussels terror attacks and many others including what happened in paris last november. cnn's tim lister joins me now to help us understand, what i've been reading about tatp, they call it mother of satan, it's the nickname, because it's so totally sensitive to heat. and the ingredients are for the most part pretty easy to get. i imagine that's part of the problem. >> yeah, that's absolutely the appeal to terrorist groups. because triacetone triperoxide
is very easily obtained off the shelves. the difficulty, though, is not in the making of it, it's in the exact strength and the transporting of it. it's extremely volatile when it's that tatp compound. i asked a terrorist in the 'o90 who were experimenting with tatp, mixing it with ever increasingly larger strengths and he was thinking the next moment would be his last. no, it has been their bomb of choice for about 20 years now. >> you know what makes me think of, i covered a number of meth lab explosions when i was in local news some years ago. now you try to obtain these ingredients, alarm bells ring when you try to buy large quantities. you talk about what's been found in these safe houses, the large
quantities of these chemicals. why are they available to buy? or is that part of the issue, that they're not coming from the west, they're coming from syria? >> no, every indication they're being bought locally. i don't think the europeans have been nearly as aguessive in chasing down purchases as has the united states. one particular example in the u.s., a man in a hotel room in denver was trying to perfect his recipe with tatp. >> with a beauty saloon. >> one of the leads the feds had is they contacted all the beauty salons around the suburb of denver and found he walked in and purchased an awful lot, saying his girlfriend needed a lot of hair bleach. well, that was a critical link into helping them follow him. they followed him all the way across the country to new york where he was planning to blow up a tatp bomb on the new york
subway so it is a critical ingredient and it's a question of what reporting requirement also do you have for bulk sellers of these liquids. they'll have to tighten it up because isis is good at making tatp bombs and explosives. >> yes, they're going to have to tighten it up. intelligence is key in terms of monitoring. maybe somebody sends his girlfriend to buy quote/unquote hair bleach, but they have to be look iing at intelligence as we to find these people, yes? >> absolutely, by the time they're making this stuff, it's too late. if you haven't got human intelligence on the inside of some of these groups and the europeans have precious little human intelligence inside these groups. for whatever reasons. lack of resources. lack of arabic speakers. the inability to understand these communities which in belgium in particular are almost sealed. they don't communicate with the
outside world. they don't turn in people. unless you have that human intelligence, you're not going to be able to stop these plots simply by observing how much hydrogen peroxide has been sold at a do it yourself store. >> tim lister, thank you so much for us, in london this afternoon, i appreciate that. next, a sudden and surprising development from the paris terrorist who was captured, the eighth attacker who was supposed to be involved in these attacks in brussels. hear what he is revealing and whether his lawyer passed any kind of signal. also ahead, a cnn exclusive. we talk to a man whose brothers traveled from belgium to syria to fight for isis. why he says they left. back after a quick break. oh, look... ...another anti-wrinkle cream
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attacks, taken into custody in brussels a week ago tomorrow, and police believe his capture may have accelerated the terrorist plot. abdeslam's attorney on saturday said he was cooperating but today that attorney says that's no longer the case. abdeslam also had been fighting extradition to france. now he wants to be sent there to face charges as soon as possible. with that, our guest joining me, who served as legal counsel, also written a book after 9/11. that's the book. so welcome jonathan, to you. first, in terms of the fact that, you know, initially abdeslam was cooperating and suddenly he's not. why do you think that might be? is that fairly common? could he be made aware that this plot -- that perhaps he was to be involved in in brussels was carried out? thoughts? >> yeah, it's hard to tell. it's obviously a fluid and fast
moving situation. it'sen usual because of the profile of the prior attacks in paris and the current attacks -- the recent attacks in brussels, sort of the world's attention on this. it's hard to know exactly what's happening but i think there could be a lot motivating a number of different factors motivating him but it's all happening under a microscope on a very accelerated pace. >> how do they get him to cooperate with the legal system? >> think they want to try to persuade him by showing him a number of different tactics. professional interrogators are experienced at this. the way to do is to use the law to persuade him to cooperate. it's a combination of normally carrots and sticks. >> what's the carrot in this situation, if he is the sole survivor of what happened in paris? >> yeah, i mean -- >> i mean, i'm just asking in terms of the law and what he wouldn't face f he gives up information? >> well, it could be something
in terms of his conditions, his treatment, just trying to persuade him generally, trying to appeal to his moral sensibility. i think there are a number of different ways that smart interrogators can try to persuade them to give up information, assuming he has information. it's not entirely certain what he knows about any current plans. his knowledge may be limited. >> he may not know even how large or broad a terror network, correct, but obviously he knew information. he had fingerprints in what happeneded in paris and what later happened in brussels. to the longer term -- this is the sort of short term on the legal and why he should cooperate. longer term, why should he? >> longer term, just to try to persuade him, he should cooperate, you know, i think it's in his -- it's ultimately going to be in his interest to try to cooperate.
for law enforcement, it's important even if he doesn't know about this particular plot, to learn as much as they can about the terrorist networks. i think it's important the authorities proceed in a manner -- that there's ultimately not any short cuts. they have to follow the law while being creative. which law enforcement has done. they've proven successful in many instances in the past. >> thank you so much, really appreciate it. recent terror attacks involve siblings. why is that happening? why is that perhaps more difficult to catch them before they strike? plus, a cnn exclusive, you'll hear from the man who will only speak in the shadows about why he says his family joined isis. you're watching cnn special live coverage. we'll be right back.
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belgians have traveled to iraq and syria to join isis. the brussels neighborhood of molenbeek has been under scrutiny for radicalization for some time. our correspondent went there and talked to members of the muslim community who are trying to keep themselves and their family members away from extremism. how do i explain this? it's as if someone hit me with a very sharp thing in my heart. when my brothers left, i don't know how to explain. >> ali says his brothers were among the first wave of belgian jihadis to travel to syria. he agreed to speak on the condition we obscure his real voice. ali isn't his name. why do you think your brothers went to syria? >> translator: honestly, i always ask them but i never understood why, but it is as if they felt rejected.
>> reporter: 2011. street evangelizing. key to the spread of their radical ideology. tell young muslims they would never truly be accepted as a part of belgian society so they shouldn't try. he is now serving a 12-year jail sentence for incitement to hatred. and authorities believe he served as a key pipeline of young belgians joining isis. some killed in syria and some now cooperating in prosecutions. abdel is a belgian lawyer representing not only sharia belgian family members but those caught up in the war against isis. he was due to stand trial for murder in syria but the trial has now been postponed. the lawyer bleachbelieves the
government could have done more to prevent the exodus. >> you know, everybody was 18 years old. is not an adult. so the thing they are saying now, people who are 18 years old, we cannot stop them from going to syria. they know everything from everybody. when he was going, how he planned it, when he buy his ticket. but they let them go. >> reporter: ten days after the paris attack, an 18-year-old man says he was surrounded by police officers at a local supermarket and pushed to the ground at gunpoint. his friends attempting to film were threatened, he says, with arrest. >> first, i was in shock. what's happening? what's happening? already commanded me, okay, get on your knees now. i went to my knees. i stayed for like 20 minutes on my knees with my hands up. >> reporter: after more than three hours at the police station, he was released without any charges. at any point did you ask yourself why? >> from the beginning until the
end still why, why is it happening, is it because i look like muslim? is it because i'm moroccan? is it my color, what is it? even now, i still have the same questions, okay, why do they really hold me at gunpoint and why did they really arrest me. >> reporter: belgian's interior minister told cnn they couldn't comment on the incident. but stress that allegations of racial profiling are taken very seriously. he believes there is more at stake here than integration of social cohesion. experiences like he, he believes, play right into the extremist hands. >> kind of give those people who recruit a, a weapon to use in the way of they can look, you see those guys, it's a racist society, they don't want you
hear, so that's a key factor for them that are used. >> reporter: do you feel belgium? >> no, because in the eyes of this society, belgian is being white, atheist or christian. >> reporter: the deadly terror attack on the belgian capital coming just near days after the capture of paris attacker salah abdeslam in the heart of his childhood neighborhood of molenbeek, has highlighted how little penetration authorities here have into many belgian muslim communities and the mutual mistrust. for authorities hunting out those who may have helped perpetrate the brussels and paris bombings, as well as any other isis con spiricists, too much is at stake for the families of those who left for syria. and of those who returned to strike terror in the heart of europe. and their victims, it's already
too late. cnn, brussels. >> nima with the exclusive, thank you for doing that. coming up, an eyewitness described what he saw that was so bizarre moments before and after that metro station there in brussels and this, as we could be moments away from getting a new composite sketch of another suspect in the center of this massive manhunt in belgium. keep it right here. to prove to you that the better choice for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so... more pills. yep... another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? for my pain... i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap.
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brussels attacks. as we've been showing you, a number of surveillance photos, a number of the suspects, some who blew themselves up, the would-be suicide bombers and those who are still at large. cnn's michael holmes talked to a man who claimed he saw one of these individuals and helped police try to create some sort of sketch. >> two minutes later, i heard an explosion, a big explosion. people went -- with blood, blood everywhere -- >> a lot of injuries? >> injuries, yes. before that, i tried to go outside. before i saw, when i come down, i saw some guy, 25, 24, 30.
i don't know the age exactly. he had a big bag. he was very nervous. >> sweating? >> sweating like he was very nervous, and he was back and forth in the metro hall, back and forth, back and forth. >> again, law enforcement looking for that individual who he described looking back and forth, looking panicked at the metro station. again this is a race against time. security forces are also looking for this man. they believe this is the man who is also on the run after leading the largest of all the bombs at the airport two mornings ago. two very dangerous men on the run. let's turn to the others. authorities believe an isis bomb maker, the man you see on the left of this image, when they're all pushing those baggage carts at the airport, he was killed in the attack, but it's the man next to him who is the subject of controversy today.
turkey says it warned european authorities about him last summer when they arrested him and deported him. listen to this, belgium's interior minister is admitting today his country may have, quote, missed a chance to stop this attacker. he and the justice minister have now offered to resign. these attacks have taken a terrible toll. at least 31 people are dead and the belgian crisis center says the number injured is now at 300. two of our senior international correspondents, nick paton walsh standing by in brussels, fred pleitgen in the community where we've seen him throughout the week, in schaerbeek. nic, talk about the latest on the search for these two men we just saw in these photos. >> absolutely, we know the man in the jacket from the airport has been long sought. it's unclear who he is. there's a possibility that he may perhaps be one of the same
individuals. that's a slim possibility. that scene shows they are really closing in on what appears to be the accomplice. if you listen to that testimony, perhaps somebody who did, in fact, survive the explosion itself, and they have to assess where this man is, right back to the apartments, which were searched only yesterday. now, the history of those brothers increasingly under scrutiny. ibrahim bakraoui was deported by turkish authorities back to holland, not belgium. you're allowed to choose where you're sent. dutch authorities said, well, we weren't told what the problem with him was. it was only after his arrival they got a call from the authorities. a lot of holes here. of course a notice mentioning the word terrorism out against him, we now know, since the 11th of december of last year. so a lot of occasions here, when
authorities had a potential tip-off about these men, and bear in mind, too, the third man, they had information on, najim laachraoui was also known to be heavily involved in the paris attacks. this is what the interior minister said when we caught up with him. >> translator: given the facts, i think it is justified when people ask questions. when people ask how is it possible when someone was released early and we missed a chance when he was in turkey to detain him. >> so gaping, frankly, have been the admissions here, he offered his resignation. the sense i think of bell jump that he wouldn't leave the job at a time of war but really the recrimination's already starting. >> we talked to you, last time we saw you 24, 48 hours ago, we saw those helicopters flying ahead, a lot of activity in the schaerbeek community there near
brussels where we talked about the raids, the searches, described what has been found. is there any activity right now? >> well, there has been activity in the schaerbeek area. throughout the day. like nic said, he's not only trying to find these men who they believe are still at large, that means they're a priority, but also trying to see whether there are other people at large who might have helped them, whether there is some sort of wider web. authorities have linked the terror attacks that happened on november 13th and the brussels attack. abdeslam is one of those who seems to be one of those linking figures. najim laachraoui is another one, the bomb maker who built those explosive devices, created a lot of tatp explosives. which of course is very high powered. you can create it at home but it
does require a certain amount of expertise. that very isis bombmaker actually went to school less than a miale from where we are now in the schaerbeek area. his former principal said, listen, when he was at our school, he never had any issues. he went to a technical institute here where he learned electromechanical engineering, which seems to indicate why he's so well versed in creating things like these explosives. mechanical expertise to go with it, brooke. >> pieces of the puzzle coming together. thank you so much. nick paton walsh, awesome reporting as always. two terror experts. one a vice president of tactical analysis at stratford and former special agent, also paul cruickshank. got it loud and clear, i hear your message so we won't do that. let me begin with you, paul.
nick perfectly laid out the different people they think they're looking for and who knows how wide this net really could be. you've been reporting that officials found surveillance video of a nuclear plant. that was found in one of these safe houses. i feel like we haven't talked much about that. >> yes, a couple of weeks after the paris attacks, they arrested a key suspected planner behind the paris attacks, mohammed bacali, a belgian national, a brussels resident, and when they went inside his residence, they found over ten hours of video footage, video surveillance footage, of a belgian official working at a nuclear site in belgium. creating a lot of concerns, why would this paris conspirator have this video surveillance of a nuclear expert working at one of these sites? was it because they wanted to
attack a nuclear site in some kind of way? was it because they wanted to gain access or gain materials from that nuclear site by filming him in some kind of way? they don't know. they do not know what the plan was. but they were very alarmed by this. when the attacks happened a couple of days ago in belgium, they evacuated nonessential staff from two nuclear facilities in belgium. it seems like they're trying to just keep essential staff there, the people who have the bigger security clearances, and then the people who are not quite as vetted, not allowing them to stay during this very sensitive time. clearly concerns there may have been other plans apart from this cell to launch that kind of plan, either to get the materials from the nuclear site or to attack a nuclear site. >> we know the plans were accelerated because of the arrests of abdeslam so who knows
what the grand plan was. we saw the terror wreaked at both the airport and the metro station. scott, let me bring you in. i think it's important to underscore the numbers here. thousands. eu europol is reporting thousands of jihadists may have returned to europe after going to syria to train and a lot of those, you know, countries they're not keeping tabs on them. we were reporting one of these bombers apparently, you know, even had been, you know, arrested and deported in turkey. they, you know, rang the alarm bells. he he was sent to holland. there was no communication. nothing happened back in belgium. >> that's the problem, is there's just so many of these individuals running around that really the system is oversaturated. and especially when we look at the smaller countries like belgium, that just doesn't have the resources as far as law enforcement and intelligence services that a larger country, even like a france or germany, has -- >> how can they get the resources?
it's such a simple question. we've been talking for so long about these communities. this sort of hot bed of terror, these networks clearly embedded in these communities. why isn't there more law enforcement? >> white frankly, you physically probably can't put law enforcement people -- it takes a large number of agents just co-conduct surveillance on one individual, 24/7. think about three shifts a day, breaks, vacations, the technical people that will help monitor, you know, tell taps, interpreters, sometimes air assets. we could be talking dozens of people just to cover one individual. when we start look at hundreds of individuals, the problem quickly spirals out of control. >> paul cruickshank, on u.s. officials telling cnn there's emergie ining signs that isis h syria are directly involved in
these attacks. the significance of that is what? >> well, the significance of that is this is part of an overall effort by isis to launch accelerating attacks in europe. they have the manpower. there's an unprecedented number of european extremists who joined their ranks in syria and iraq and many, over 1,500 jihadis spent time there from europe, have come back, so they have everything they need to launch this escalating series of attacks in europe. the intelligence picture is one where as they lose ground, in syria and iraq to some degree. they're accelerating those attack plans. they want to be seen as winning, not as losing. this sort of changes the conversation. it encourages that support. >> i'm also curious, we talked about -- perhaps directed back to syria, how huge this network would be. would abdeslam -- we know he's
apparently now not cooperating. he could totally be in the dark. he could be highly localized. we thought he was going to carry out a, in paris, b, in brussels, but he may not even know. i'm just trying to think of information he would be able to give up to law enforcement. he may not know as much as they've been hoping for. >> he may not know the complete picture of everything they're planning in europe. belgian investigators believe he did know what they were plan to carry out in brussels. this terrible attack. nobody they knew, but they believe he was going to be part of it. when one of the attack teams got rounded up last week, including abdeslam, including the overall ringleader of the group, the rest of the second attack team accelerated the plans and moved forward with an attack, which would have otherwise taken place perhaps in several weeks. it was smaller than what it would otherwise have been. might have been a series of
attacks. a huge amount of bombs. a lot of atpt -- >> extra suitcases according to the taxi driver. >> they couldn't fit it all in the car. too many bombs to go around. they expected to have double the size of the attack team. but authorities thwarted this plot. unfortunately, they weren't able to thwart the other half of it in time, with tragic circumstances. the remaining people at large will want to go out in some kind of blaze of glory. at least two at large. who for whatever reasons abandoned ship. this other suspect seen by the metro stop where one of the brothers carried out the attack. he had a big bag. i mean, inside that big bag, like the suitcases, could be other bombs. this cell, they've been extremely determined, they wanted to follow through with attacks. in paris, the same cell were planning a follow-on attempt
just a few days after paris attacks, including the ringleader, abdelhamid abaaoud. you can imagine the impact of something if it happens in the next couple of days in brussels. >> don't want to imagine that. paul cruickshank, thank you. next here, a taxi driver trying to find his son works at the brussels airport actually filmed the horrifying moment after the blast went off. we have the video. it's tough to watch. plus, it's called the mother of satan. this is the nickname for the fatal chemical combination of these bombs used in these coordinated attacks. who's building these bombs? how such fist dated are they truly? and standing up to trump like
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welcome back. you're watching breaking news. i'm brooke baldwin here on cnn. right now it's a city, it's a country on edge, but it's also really become quite known for its role as a recruiting ground for jihadi fighters. when you look at the recent statistics from the international center for the study of radicalization and potential violence, the gray bars here, you'll see through this chart, on the far left, reveals belgium has the highest number of foreign fighters per can capita than any nation in western european. that is stunning. a top european security official is warning threats from isis are even more urgent now and the thousands of radicalized europeans who travel to syria, many of them are now back home. so joining me live from brussels, the reporter and columnist in belgium for politico.
tara, thank you so much for being with me. let me just begin with politico's reporting here. this was just handed to me about how politico's getting news that eighth terror suspect from paris who was taken in a week ago was talking for just one hour prior to the attacks where you are, tell me more of what you know. >> exactly, he only spoke to investigators for an hour aft he was captured on friday. this was shocking. the excuse is insane. they say because he was shot in the leg, he was tired and he wasn't in good enough shape to give them information. in addition, they started from the beginning back in the paris attacks and they didn't get far enough into the interview to find out about the future and what's coming next. on top of that, there was some information that was -- that came out in the media about how salah abdeslam planned to blow himself up at the stadium in
paris during the paris attacks and the belgiums felt this had caused the attack this past week to happen even sooner, the fact this information had leaked. it was a message to the other -- the people in the cell to act quickly because salah was speaking and he was telling prosecutors. at this point, he's not speaking at all to prosecutors and has asked to be moved to france for his style. >> it is stunning to think. we can't know what he would have given up if anything had these interrogators started on imminent plots. but the fact that because they started questioning him chronologically, starting with back in november in paris, they didn't quite get to who was most alarming. >> no, exactly. belgian crisis center admitted that they didn't have enough information to raise the terror level from 3 to 4 after he was captured. it was sort of like a celebratory moment in brussels where everyone was talking about
what went right, how they were able to capture him and how they had gotten europe's most wanted man but in that meantime, there was plotting and colluding happening, a feeling of let's do the attack that salah abdeslam, our sources tell us, was supposed to be involved with, and he was captured. >> we've talked a lot about this, first when paris happened and now this, the open borders in europe. i was talking to ali sufan who was a a interrogator in his past life and he said terrorists move more freely in europe than information. so it seems to me -- this is an issue after 9/11 where intelligence agencies were not talking to one another. that changed here. why hasn't that changed in europe? >> it's really a difficult situation in europe. you're absolutely correct. the flow of information is not great and especially between
belgium and france and on top of that, belgium, their own intelligence services are so fragmented and there's a reluctance to share information with the belgians because they have just within brussels 19 different communities with 19 different mayors. and if they give information, they fear it will leak out to the local level and that they can't control any leak, so there's suspicion to share information. and there's suspicion about getting information from other parties. so there really needs to be better organization between europe and just within the countries themselves. >> thank you so much. reporter and clm must for politico, in brussels for us tonight. back to our special coverage in a moment. right now, we have to talk about ted cruz. ted cruz right now is absolutely unleashing on donald trump and this whole feud over their wives. listen, cruz is angry after
liein' ted, watch out or i'll spill the beans on your wife. which then somehow there was all this back and forth. essentially telling you that in the end, trump retweeted someone else with -- i'm not even going to show you the picture because it's appalling. really demeaning to women. i don't know if it's my wife is hotter than your wife kind of thing. but basically in the wake of that, ted cruz said this. do we have it? >> it's not easy to tick me off. i don't get angry often. but you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that will do it every time. donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave heidi alone. >> will you support him as a nominee? >> i'm going to beat him for the nomination. he is not -- i am answering the question. donald trump will not be the
nominee. >> incredibly forceful response from ted cruz. we're going to talk terror, but this sound just turned around. from the texas senator. my goodness, a, have you ever, b, do you think this will hurt donald trump at all? >> especially at the presidential level. maybe student council. but this is new ground in choosing the net commander in chief. what we've seen in the past six months is that these things do not hurt trump with his core supporters but he's trying to pivot to a broader audience to make sure he gets the nomination and then in a general election be able to reach out to swing
voters. so i think the people who are happiest about this exchange, they would be the democrats. >> right, they would be. when you look at the tremendous trump support thus far, he has a lot of support from republican women. curious to see if that erodes at all. based upon this sort of silliness. let's talk about substance, what's happening in brussels. i'm just curious, your response. to me what's striking is how these different presidential candidates, the difference in their responses. bernie sanders is really sort of staying on message with the campaign. we saw hillary clinton speaking yesterday at stanford university, giving a massive counterterrorism speech. then you have ted cruz and donald trump talking about patrolling muslim neighborhoods and yes to water boarding. it's striking, the differences, no? >> very different approaches. these terror attacks really bring the issues of national security front and center in the presidential race. that's likely to continue i
think for the rest of this year. you know, you not only saw hillary clinton take very different positions on what we try to do in response to these threats. she took a very different tone. she took a deliberately low key serious tone in her speech at stanford yesterday. in contrast, to the kind of bluster yesterday with both cruz and trump. definitely displayed her familiarity about these issues given the four years she served as secretary of state. that doesn't mean she's going to win over the republican voters. but it is an area in which hillary clinton is very comfortable making her case. quite different from what we hear on the republican side. >> from what you heard from secretary clinton and even if you compared it to the response, what we saw a little bit from president obama, speaking in argentina, what struck you the most from the speech, just
curious? >> the way she called for the need for coalitions. international coalitions. whereas donald trump has suggested we might want to withdraw from nato. that was one big difference. also the call for muslim-americans making our allies in this battle as opposed to figures of great suspicion. different from what cruz said the other day where we ought to start arming and securing muslim neighborhoods. that's something hillary clinton pushed back quite a bit. so really different approaches both towards the muslim world and generally does the u.s. act more effectively when it's a coalition of other nations or should we be going it alone. >> susan, stay with me. i've been told in my ear from my executive producer and we have more sound from ted cruz so let's see what else he's saying. >> when he gets scared, he screams. he yells. often he curses. he insults and attacks whoever
is standing near him. donald does seem to have an issue with women. donald doesn't like strong women. strong women scare donald. donald is scared a lot these days. donald is scared to debate. he ran away from the last debate that was scheduled. because he was scared of megyn kelly. and because he was scared to defend his policies. listen, donald doesn't know much about foreign policy. the day before the brussels terror attack, donald called for america effectively withdrawing from nato. that is utter foolishness. it would hand a massive victory to putin and isis. that weakness and unilateral surrender is indicative of someone who doesn't have a basic understanding of foreign policy. that's why donald is afraid of debates. because at debates, his lack of understanding of the basic knowledge necessary to keep this country safe, those become
revealed. when it companies to the economy, donald has no idea how to bring jobs back to america. at debates, that becomes exposed. he's scared of debates. he's scared of megyn kelly. he's also scared of seeing republicans unite behind our campaign. we just had an election a few days ago in utah. we worked very hard. we were hoping to break 50%. if we broke 50%, we would get all the delegates from utah. not only did we breck 50%, we blew past that, got nearly 70%, 69% of the vote. donald didn't like that so you're right, he began lashing out at my wife, attacking heidi directly. let me be absolutely clear, our spouses and our children are off bats. it is not acceptable for a big loud new york bully to attack my wife. it is not acceptable for him to make insults, to send nasty
tweets late at night. i don't know what he does late at night but he tends to do these about 11:30 at night. i assume when his fear is at the highest point. but i also have to say heidi, she is the daughter of christian mysteries. she lived in africa as a little girl. she's an unbelievable mom. we've got two little girls who are 7 and 5. i tell you, our girls are going to come join us on the road later this afternoon. i'm not looking forward to telling the girls why donald trump is launching insults and attacks at their mommy. i'm not looking forward to that conversation. because it is not acceptable. real men don't try to bully women. that's not an action of strength. that's an action of weakness.
it's an action of fear. it's an action of a small and petty man. who is intimidated by strong women. real men don't do that. and donald is indicating the fear that keeps him up at night when he lashes out with anger. heidi is my best friend in the whole world. she is the love of my life. and donald should stick with attacking me. because heidi is way out of donald trump's reach. >> sniveling coward he says, susan, big loud new york bully. i mean, staying on this whole back and forth between -- the dispute between these two candidates regarding their wives. i think it's worth reminding folks, because we haven't seen as much from heidi cruz, susan. we saw her come out, it was just yesterday, to a microphone in wakasha which is rare for a candidate's wife to sort of stand up for herself.
what more do we know about heidi cruz? >> heidi cruz is very accomplished on wall street, you know, bigger earner than her husband. he's boasted about that. acknowledges she struggled with depression about a decade ago. and there's been speculation that's what donald trump is going to spill the beans about. but she is, you know, she is someone who's been by cruz's side from the start of this campaign. she's not somebody who's been a mysterious figure. that was just an extraordinary attack from ted cruz that we just heard on trump. designed to get a rise out of him. look where he was speaking in wisconsin. the wisconsin primary on april 5th is a crucial one for trump to win. if cruz is going to break through and be able to deny trump the nomination, the majority of delegates, wisconsin may well be the critical place for that to happen. it's winner take all by congressional district. so i think cruz is seeing --
cruz is honestly angry about the attacks on his wife. also seeing an opening here for the most frontal attacks so far in this campaign. >> we'll stay tuned. this thing is far from over. susan page, thank you so much as always. just a reminder to all of you, cnn films produced a fascinating series about the dirtest presidential campaigns in history. news flash, this is not new, what we're watching this week. it is truman versus dewy, sunday night on cnn. two brothers serving as two different suicide bombers in the brussels terror attacks, one at the airport, one at the subway station. all part of a disturbing trend of siblings joining jihad. we'll talk about how terror groups like isis are exploiting entire families.
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and the subway station. in november, the paris attacks, the brothers there were involved. another pair of brothers attacked charlie hebdo in paris, murdering 12 people that previous january. and the brothers carrying out the boston marathon bombings. let me bring in mohammad, the chairman of the committee at the naval post graduate school. there was a piece in "the new york times" this morning also pointing out there were three sets of saudi brothers going back to among the 19 hijackers from 9/11 and i'm curious, with your research, why do you think this is happening? >> well, there are lots of advantages to using siblings and family members more generally in terrorist attacks. the first thing to consider is that the entry barriers to radicalization are quite low.
thing about it. think about it, it you love your brother or you look up to your father and they are radicalized individuals, you are likely to listen to them, to trust in their message and perhaps go along with their radical beliefs. even if you yourselves are not that political. that's one advantage to turning to family members. >> do you think -- thinking back to when i was covering the boston bombings. much was made about the older brother and how he was the quote/unquote mastermind and how the younger brother was more malleable. is that a theme among these sets of siblings? >> i think so, i think what terrorist recruitment depends on is bonds of trust and pre-existing social ties, and nothing is more firm than a bond of family members with shared experiences growing up together,
you know, loving each other. and i think that is very important. the history of terrorism is a history of recruiting friends and family. family members. this is very important because it builds on preexiting ties. those ties can then be transformed into nefarious ends. that's what we've been seeing in the past two years. and what we saw in brussels as well. >> but you point out in your research, you argue that the terrorists are the ones exploiting the family ties, the family bond. how do they exploit that? >> well, i think part of this has to deal with a security environment that is increasingly constricting on recruitment. to give you an example, belgium used to have a network called sharia for belgium but given they were recruiting a lot of individuals to go to syria, the government shut them down. when you have a security
environment that is constrained, you have to look elsewhere. and one place to look is the family unit. so i think there is an attempt to exploit those pre-existing ties, but more importantly, there's the operational security as well. that is not a small consideration. when you recruit within a family, you don't have to make as many calls that can be intercepted. you don't have to make as many trips that can be monitored. when planning is taking place inside a family that is difficult for security services to interdict. >> the trust, the bond, the keeping it within the home, and sadly, in these cases, the follow-through. mohamed afes, thank you so much. isis pulling off deadly attacks in europe just as europe is losing ground in iraq and syria. new developments on the battlefield today.
isis is threatening to hit europe again after, as you well know, they have claimed responsibility for the deadly terror attacks in brussels. but in iraq the terror group is on the defense. the iraqi army is laumnching a new operation to try to retake the contested city of mosul. and in syria, regime forces entered the city of palmyra trying to regain control from isis militants. in response isis released its own video that shows isis militants still in control of that city. that said, let's get some perspective from arwa damon who's covered, of course, both countries and isis here as well on the threat. arwa, first to you on syria. when we talk about palmyra, just remind our american viewers, this is the cradle of syrian
civilization, the 80-year-old historian who was decapitated. tell me about the battle now for palmyra. >> reporter: well, our information is based on what syrian state television is putting out there, but they are saying that syrian troops have managed to regain control of a strategic hilltop and are making according to them significant advances when it comes to pushing isis out of this incredibly historic area. palmyra is absolutely stunning. i went there years ago, well before all of this fighting broke out, and it truly is one of those ancient sites that just takes your breath away. for our viewers as a reminder, isis swept through the area back in may of last year and over the summer began destroying some of these historic ruins, including blowing up a 2,000-year-old temple. now, palmyra in terms of the battlefield is, yes, slightly strategically located, but losing palmyra is not
necessarily going to deal isis a strategic, definitive blow when it comes to significantly weakening their grasp on some of their other strong holds, but it would be, if it were to actually materialize, a pretty significant win for the assad regime. this is a win that according to state television would end up actually materializing thanks to air strikes by russian fighter jets, brooke. >> 30 seconds, what's the status update on mosul? >> reporter: mosul, well, the iraqis say they have begun the operation to liberate the province where mosul is located taking over a number of villages to the south of the city. let's also remember that does not necessarily mean that the big decisive battle to take back mosul, iraq's second largest city where isis has been holed up for almost two years now is imminent at this stage. but the iraqis do say that they're making gains, they're getting ready for it. a lot of bluster and confidence on their part.
but this is still going to be such a long and protracted battle, not to mention the civilians that are still inside that city that isis is potentially using as human shields. >> arwa damon, thank you so much. coming up next, breaking moments ago, the family of the so-called bomb maker in the brussels attacks has just come forward, speaking out about the attacker's recent travels. plus as security officials say, thousands of jihadists may right now be in europe. prosecutors reveal why they fear new attacks could be in the works. we'll be right back. red lobster's lobsterfest is back. so come try the largest variety of lobster dishes of the year, like lobster lover's dream or new dueling lobster tails.
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(neighbor) yeah, so we're just bringing your son home. (dad) ah! greetings, neighbor. neighbor boy. he really loves our wireless directv receiver. (dad) he should know better. we're settlers. we settle for cable. but let us repay you for your troubles. fresh milk for the journey home? (neighbor) we live right there. (dad) salted meats? (neighbor) no thank you. (dad) hats then! (vo) don't be a settler, get a $100 reward card when you switch to directv. the terror attacks in brussels are even having an impact on the ncaa tournament here in the u.s. a spokesperson saying safety and security of our players, teams and fanspriority. we continue to monitor the situation in brussels and as with any incident we coordinate with local, state and federal
agencies as necessary. miami/villanova playing at louisville. oklahoma and texas a&m face off in california. watch the game on sister network tbs and go to cnn.com/brackets to see how we're all doing. brooke baldwin, thanks for being with me. "the lead" with pamela brown starts now. >> thank you, brooke. isis has plans to hit europe again and soon. "the lead" starts right now. breaking news, a new warning from u.s. counterterrorism officials that more attacks are on the way as the manhunt for isis terrorists intensifies. plus new information tonight from counterterrorism officials, including a second suspect now wanted in the brussels bombings, as we learn that isis leadership in the middle east may have been calling the shots for this cell. plus -- >> donald, you're a snifling coward and leave