Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNNW  April 4, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT

6:00 pm
that does it for us. we'll see you at 11:00 p.m. for another edition of "360." cnn with don lemon starts right now. >> this is cnn breaking news. the breaking news is hillary clinton/bernie sanders go head-to-head here on cnn in a primetime debate in brooklyn. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. you can see the democratic debate on april 14th. just hours to go until the wisconsin primaries. in milwaukee, two rallies, donald trump and bernie sanders whipping up their supporters right across the street from each other. and trump rolling out his secret weapon. >> and together, we will make america strong and great again. >> we have won six out of the last seven caucuses and
6:01 pm
primaries. >> in the most unconventional campaign that we have ever seen, who is up, who is down? and will wisconsin be the end of the road for somebody? definitely a lot going on tonight. let's get right to milwaukee where cnn's sara murray and brianna keilar are covering the dueling rallies just across the street from each other. look at that. brianna, breaking news. new democratic debate has just been added in the middle of this critical time in the election calendar. what can you tell us? >> so this is going to be on april 14th. and it will be in new york. it's going to be in brooklyn, don, which is interesting because that's where hillary clinton has her headquarters and also where bernie sanders was born. they both have ties to the area. wolf blitzer will be moderating. and maybe one of the most interesting things about this debate is how it came to be. there was this back and forth between the clinton and sanders campaign. hillary clinton's campaign offered this date five days
6:02 pm
before the new york primary. sanders offered a date two days before. the date that hillary clinton was offering was on the day -- on the night of a big rally that bernie sanders was planning in washington square park so he didn't want to move it. in the end he capitulate. a sign that he's more gung ho about having his chance to make an impact in new york than he is. >> i hope you can hear me. i want to turn to wisconsin and hillary clinton's campaign. they sent out this e-mail to supporters tonight. here's what it reads. it says, first friend, two quick notes. first we're down in almost every poll in wisconsin. tomorrow's primary will be a tough fight. the sanders campaign raised over $43 million in march, the third month in a row they've outraised us. this nomination isn't locked up yet and we've got to keep fighting for every vote if we want to see hillary clinton in the white house. brianna, the question is, polls show that bernie sanders slightly ahead in wisconsin. but it's a statistical dead heat
6:03 pm
really. for the democrats, the delegates could well be split. why is wisconsin so important? >> well, wisconsin is very important specifically for bernie sanders because if he can pull out a win here, his hope and he's been saying this because he's been talking a big game in wisconsin. his hope is that he'll ride that momentum into new york april 19th. you might look at the polls in new york. you see there's a 12-point spread from what we're seeing between hillary clinton and bernie sanders. you may think that's a good margin. but if he, say, those polls are off just a little bit, if he gets a lot of momentum, you can see how that gap starts to close. that's part of the reason hillary clinton is spending time in new york. keep in mind, though, this is really important. these delegates are awarded proportiona proportionately. bernie sanders wouldn't just have to beat hillary clinton in new york and in wisconsin. he'd have to beat her by a huge margin. so that's yet to be seen. >> talk us to more about the impact this could have on the big delegate prize coming soon
6:04 pm
here in new york. >> well, what bernie sanders needs to do at this point in time is really pick up almost somewhere in the ballpark of about two-thirds of all of the delegates moving forward. he would really have to step up his game in terms of the fraction of these delegates that he is picking up. he's still trailing considerably behind hillary clinton. you heard him touting he's won six of the last seven contests. that's true. he has this momentum in his favor. he's the one winning. he's still considerably behind and would have so much to make up for in that delegate math. a lot of people think it's almost impossible for him to do, don. he's insisting this is something he's going to be able to do and he's taking this all the way to the convention. >> he raised $44 million in march. brianna, stand by. i want to bring in sara murray at the trump rally tonight. what's happening there? >> well, this is donald trump's third stop of the day here in
6:05 pm
wisconsin. this one was interesting. he brought his wife melania trump up on stage. you heard a little bit of a clip of that. and trump is coming off of a rocky week. he had the slip-ups on abortion, suggesting maybe women deserved to be punished if they got an abortion illegally. melania came up on stage and said whenever anyone hits trump, he hits back ten times hartder but that he treats people equally, whether they are men or women. clearly the trumps banding together and hoping that maybe she'll show a softer side of her husband, something maybe women aren't seeing from him on the campaign trail. >> sara, there's a new article by "new york" magazine suggesting that he wears a bulletproof vest. what is the campaign saying about that? >> well, don, the campaign is being tight lipped about this. secret service is really careful not to talk about the specifics of any kind of security they are providing to any candidate. i don't think we should expect
6:06 pm
to hear a lot more detail on this one. >> let's talk about ivanka trump. the same article reveals ivanka is an influential voice in her father's campaign. she tells him to act more presidential. we've heard that from his wife melania. he says melania tells him the same thing. you think there's going to be a change here? >> well, trump has made clear the women in his life are not afraid to weigh in on when they think he's gone too far or feel like he needs to be more presidential. he's been saying on the campaign trail if i had been more presidential, people would have been bored. people would not have paid attention. i needed to do what i did in order to get to where i enemy the polls. this is something you see reflected. the campaign manager's slogan is let trump be trump. i don't think we'll see an about-face and big shuft from the campaign. >> donald trump spent the weekend trying to manage the fallout from a series of gaffes and negative events last week. he acknowledged it was a mistake
6:07 pm
to tweet that awful picture of heidi cruz next to his wife. he said it was a mistake. if i had to do it again, i wouldn't have done it. why this change in tactic, do you think? >> don, i think the reality is the trump campaign is looking at the same poll numbers we're looking at. and these poll numbers show that trump has a -- women have a very unfavorable view of trump. this is a campaign that's just beginning now to look ahead. they are looking at a potential general election. trump said he feels like he'll have the nomination locked up before they get to the convention. if that's the case, he needs to be prepared to battle in a general election against hillary clinton. not just for republican women but for women more broadly. you are seeing him rethink some of the steps he made there. try to shift a little more attention to the general election, don. >> sara murray at a trump rally. they are saying trump, trump, trump. brianna keilar at a rally as well. >> you caught that? >> yeah, i caught that.
6:08 pm
>> at bernie sanders rally. i want to turn to two people who know the political landscape in wisconsin better than anybody. jason stein is with us as well. a reporter for the "milwaukee journal sentinel." jerry, i'm going to start with you. you are one of six talk radio hosts. going on the air waves against donald trump and supporting ted cruz. why do you dislike trump so much? >> it's not a matter of dislike in a personal sense. it's a matter of feeling that he's completely unqualified to be president both in demeanor and in grassroot issues. other than that, he's a great candidate. there's nothing about the man that appears presidential in terms of intelectual heft, mastery of issues and the playground behavior. it's really that simple. >> just that simple. jason, you spent a lot of time talking to political figures, regular people. wisconsin being donald trump's waterloo or can he pull out a
6:09 pm
win there? >> you know, i think it's going to be very difficult for him. both in terms of earned media and in terms of paid media, he has lagged here in a way that i don't think he has in many other states. and, frankly, the way he's handled the state has not helped him over the past week. >> jerry, you recently described a conversation with mr. trump as feeling like a "saturday night live" skit. explain that. >> nothing seems to be rooted in reality when you talk with him. and, really, was a microcosm of his entire campaign. he was shocked at the fact that an opinionmaker, i actually have expressed an opinion on the candidate, in this case, ted cruz. he kept going back and back to that. and to actually -- i've seen him do this how many times. but to be part of that, she started it. she started it. i mean, i'm a father. i remember that from 15 years ago, and it's just -- it doesn't seem real.
6:10 pm
>> how much of this do you think is -- what do you think it's doing to the people in wisconsin? how much is it penetrating? because it doesn't -- there's at least opinion poll that shows donald trump may be ahead. all the polls show cruz is ahead. do you think it's penetrating and weighing on voters there? >> i do. i think particularly, jason referred to the week that donald trump has had. and maybe he's got some tea leaves sense on thus. what i'm hear, what has really hurt him is the retweeting of that unflattering picture of heidi cruz that that has really resonated. the other thing, bashing scott walker in wisconsin, was idiotic and it appears it's really hurting him. he was looking at an overall underwater number 40%. scott walker is still 80/17ish. and i think those two things are hitting him and hitting him hard. >> jason, you want to weigh in on that? >> i definitely would agree that
6:11 pm
in a general election, you could debate the value of the scott walker endorsement. but running against the governor here in wisconsin in a republican primary was a risky strategy for trump. >> jason, i want to ask you because i hear many people say the same thing that the retweeting of that picture was really a turning point for them. very simply they just saw it as mean. >> well, i think as well, you -- they have to remember that that picture was retweeted, you know, shortly after the terror attacks in brussels. so i think part of the just amaze reaction on the part of the state was to see that donald trump and to a lesser extent ted cruz were fighting over their wives at a time when, obviously, there were life and death issues afoot in the race. >> let's talk about this white supremacist robocall making the rounds in wisconsin. let's listen and we'll discuss.
6:12 pm
>> my name is mary mitchell. i'm a member of the american freedom party. i am voting for donald trump because he will not only be presidential, he will put america first. furthermore, he'll respect all women and help preserve western civilization. this message is paid for by william johnson, a farmer and white nationalist. this call is not authorized by donald trump. >> jerry, i understand you got this call. you have played it on your show. what did your listeners say? >> well, it's interesting. i was battered pretty good by the trump supporters. donald trump can't -- isn't responsible for who supports him and who spends money on him. and my response to this is that donald trump doesn't welcome that support. i took a pretty hard hit on twitter and e-mail. my response to this is, the man who doesn't bathe for a month didn't invite and welcome the flies that then surround him after that, but he shouldn't
6:13 pm
wonder why they are there. >> that's interesting, jason. what do you make of that call? >> well, it was a remarkable call. not something i've seen in a decade covering wisconsin politics. my colleague actually spoke to william johnson this morning. and one thing that mr. johnson told him was that he wanted to make a point of including the term white nationalism in that ad you just heard or the robocall because he wanted the public to start getting comfortable with the term white nationalism and to start hearing it more. and so, obviously, i think a lot of viewers will find that disturbing. >> jason, i want to ask you about the democrats. bernie sanders is there in wisconsin. clinton went to -- secretary clinton went to new york. do those optics matter to wisconsin's democrats? are these live pictures of bernie sanders? these are live pictures of a bernie sanders event as you answer this, jason.
6:14 pm
>> of course. obviously, senator sanders has been rallying people all over the state. campaigned very hard here. and appeared a little tired last night in madison from the effects of that. obviously, i do think it's telling that president clinton was here in milwaukee today campaigning for his wife but secretary clinton was in new york. obviously, there's some effort to control expectations on the part of the clinton campaign. they may still pull this state out, but, obviously, it would appear to be going to senator sanders. >> got a lot out of that conversation. thank you jason stein and jerry bader. we'll have you back on soon. thanks. >> our pleasure. when we come right back, inside the trump campaign. how is donald trump's unorthodox run surprised everybody? maybe even the candidate himself. we'll be right back.
6:15 pm
my bladder leakage made me feel like i couldn't be the father that i wanted to be. my kids see me as this rock of the family and a part of me felt like i became less of that hero to them but with depend, i have none of those concerns anymore. i can go all out. there's no restriction in my movement. it's liberating and sloan is back. unlike the bargain brand, new depend fit-flex underwear
6:16 pm
is now more flexible to move with you. reconnect with the life you've been missing. get a free sample at depend.com. hello?!n presents the yardley's. reconnect with the life you've been missing. you do? really? ding dong? -oh, pizza is here! -oh! come on in. [claps] woah! lose the sneakers pal. kind of a thing. this is more than a lawn. this is a trugreen lawn. sorry! live life outside with trugreen, america's #1 lawn care company. spring is on. start your trugreen lawn plan today. bye now. trugreen. live life outside. thiand being able to use've worked oa pen like thisk. on the screen directly with the image, it takes me back to my time as a painter. and i just can't do that on my mac.
6:17 pm
6:18 pm
on the eve of the wisconsin primary, we're getting an inside look at how donald trump operates his campaign. it's fascinating. i wanted to dig into this deeper with dan rather, the host of "the big interview" and gabriel sherman for "new york" magazine who wrote this week's cover story, how the trump campaign actually works. welcome to both of you, gentlemen. i've gone there for the interviews. a number of us. you go to the conference room. he invites you up to his office. you get to see all his trinkets from this prize fighter.
6:19 pm
the things that -- >> yeah. >> the campaign headquarters, take us inside. where is it? >> i was fascinated to learn you go to trump tower. you have tourists taking pictures. take an elevator up to the fif th floor. a frosted glass door. you think you are in a construction zone. there's some plastic garbage cans on the floor. you go around the corner. there's wires hanging from the ceiling. a bunch of college kids, 20-somethings sitting around. you cannot imagine that the gop front-runner, a national campaign, is being run out of this essentially boiler room on the fifth floor of trump tower. >> it's not beautiful like trump tower. >> no. >> the cover of "new york magazine magazine." the focus of the race is changing from what he's really good at to something closer to what happens on capitol hill.
6:20 pm
trump may soon need to change how his campaign operates raising outside money, engaging the superpacs he's denounced and widen his circle beyond himself. that boiler room and beyond is going to have to start operating differently like a real campaign. >> we're seeing this now. we're seeing -- >> a more traditional campaign. >> we're seeing this in north dakota and cruz muscling delegates to louisiana and tennessee. trump is realizing it's switching to a trench warfare-style campaign where it's a battle for every delegate. he needs to bring in people who have that exper tees. >> mr. rather, do you see this as a battle for delegates? do you get the sense that he himself and his campaign are worried about not getting to that magical number of 1,237? >> i don't think they expect to get that number. i think they are convinced they'll be short, perhaps a little short, but they'll try, of course. two things. one, ted cruz is a strategic
6:21 pm
thinker. and because he's a strategic thinker, he's planned well in advance for the campaign and caucuses, campaign among the delegates. donald trump is just getting on to that. donald trump is that tactical operator. the difference between strategic operator and tactical operator. tactics paid off very big for donald trump. he's a great entertainer. he understands television. all of those things. but i would caution going too far with trump changing. i'm not so sure that he's capable of changing. the other cautionary note is -- >> let me ask you before you get on to that. if he's not capable of changing. if he's the front guy, the face, if he can't change, what about behind the scenes, can his campaign become more strategic than tactical? >> i don't think so because i think donald trump is the campaign. you have a bunch of operatives
6:22 pm
who run the campaign. >> you said the other caution is what? the other warning? >> the other cautionary note is this is a very important vote tomorrow. trump has not lost it. naturally, the campaign coverage follows the polls. the expectation is that ted cruz wul win wisconsin. that's my expectation. just a cautionary note to the ted cruz supporters and others that old saying, don't taunt the alligator until after you cross the creek might come in handy here. >> that is a rather-ism. >> gabe, when you look at corey lewandowski, the campaign manager now. they say he's losing power. they're taking power from behind the scenes and hope hicks, his press secretary, two people unconventional, not your typical political insiders. will this continue to work for him? >> it's clearly worked up to this point. he's been the front-runner,
6:23 pm
upended the american political establishment. >> do you remember when then-senator obama brought everybody in from chicago. and everyone said he needs to get rid of these people from chicago. he needs more washington insiders. is that the case with donald trump? >> he's made moves in that direction. he brought in, to dan's point, he's brought in paul manafort who helped in the convention floor fight. stylistic stylistically, i don't know that he's capable of changing. he's been playing this character of donald trump for 40-plus years. can he change? he's talked about being presidential but we haven't seen any evidence of that. >> he says ivanka his daughter head asked him to be more presidential and his wife. ivanka really has a voice in this campaign. >> he listens to her. she's pushed him hard on women's issues and -- >> is there a tension? >> she's told people as my
6:24 pm
sources said that she wants her father to bring in someone that can get him to that next level. it's important to point out when trump hired corey lewandowski, he was in the political wilderness in new hampshire. hadn't really managed a campaign anywhere near this level andu vaunka trump wants the best for her father and said maybe he needs to bring in someone that can get him there. >> so many things happened last week that donald trump may be self-sabotaging because he's exhausted and realizes he may be in over his head and realizes he doesn't want to be president of the united states. >> first of all, i don't think donald trump thinks he's in over his head. i don't think he's capable of thinking that way. part of his appeal is his confidence. however, unquestionably, he and the people around him, including his family and most especially his daughter and wife, very influential with him. they had to size up the last week and the ten days before that as a very bad period.
6:25 pm
i wouldn't say -- waterloo is too strong for me but there were indications donald trump, maybe his brand turned to guacamole or something because he made one mistake after another. some got very well publicized, what he said about abortion and had to roll that back. >> and corey lewandowski -- >> what didn't get much attention were some things that resonated a lot with people. talking about, in effect, pulling the united states out of nato, and more importantly, paving the way for japan -- japan and south korea to get nuclear weapons. an awful lot of voters who were of memory age in world war ii, and the idea of allowing -- encouraging japan to get a nuclear weapon, i think resonated deeply with a lot of people below the surface. >> there's a feeling in some corners of the trump world he needed to put this away on super tuesday and have won ohio in addition to florida. and that would have really closed the deal.
6:26 pm
and now he's left himself open to this war of attrition, where we're going state by state and it's -- does he have the stamina to do that? >> you thought we were done, we're not. you guys are sticking around. a rare admission from donald trump. he tells a reporter it was a mistake. yes, donald trump tells a reporter it was a mistake. is he doing damage control after last week's gaffes on the campaign trail? we'll look at that next. so you evolve. you simplify. you haven't changed. you still help people live their best lives. and finally your new logo is ready, and you decide the perfect time to show the world is right... now.
6:27 pm
if legalzoom has your back.s, over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here. i'm bushed! i've been on my feel alyea me too. excuse me...coming through! ride the gel wave of comfort with dr. scholls massaging gel insoles. they're proven to give you comfort. which helps you feel more energized ...all day long. i want what he has. schwarzkopf presents a model's hair is the ultimate test for care. essence ultime omega repair, with rich omega oil. it repairs hair deep inside. 10 times stronger hair. 90 percent less breakage. omega repair, developed with claudia schiffer, from schwarzkopf. they are. do i look smarter? yeah, a little. you're making money now, are you investing? well, i've been doing some research.
6:28 pm
let me introduce you to our broker. how much does he charge? i don't know. okay. uh, do you get your fees back if you're not happy? (dad laughs) wow, you're laughing. that's not the way the world works. well, the world's changing. are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management, at charles schwab.
6:29 pm
show show me more like this. s. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what blows you away.
6:30 pm
call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. is donald trump doing damage control ahead of the important primaries in key northeastern states later this month. dan rather and gabriel sherman back with me. mr. rather, we saw donald trump on the sunday shows on his terribly bad week. you wouldn't call it a waterloo, but it was a bad week. on abortion, he said he'd answered differently. this is what he said. it was a mistake. i had to do it again, i wouldn't have sent it. it's not quite an apology but what do you make of this cleanup? >> i think it is an effort at damage control and to clean up. and you won't hear donald trump
6:31 pm
apologize for often about very much. that's about as close to an apology as you get. i'd consider it an apology. he's got to know, people are saying all the time, father, husband of mine, you've got to understand a couple of things. i do think he's a bit tired. i think for the first time showing some weariness. >> let's talk about that. i think it was anna huffington who probably said he needed some sleep. he said i only sleep four hours a day. you and i know when you are on these hours and i can't imagine a presidential campaign. sometimes things come out of your mouth and you are like, what did i just say? you think he's sleep deprived and exhausted? >> i wasn't say exhausted. i will say weary and the campaign beginning to grind on him. that's no slam on him. it happens to every candidate who goes the distance with this kind of campaign. and also and gabriel made this point. he's running the most unorthodox
6:32 pm
american political campaign in modern history. it's all on him. and -- but i keep coming back to he still leads in delegate count. i would analyze, sometimes i'm wrong about these things, if trump pulls it out in wisconsin, it's virtually over. if he doesn't, if cruz crushes him in wisconsin, it's a bigger victory for the stop trump movement than it is for cruz, per se. >> let's talk about this idea of exhaustion. you noted in your article he's wearing the bulletproof vest. do you think it's right about him being tired? >> his friends n people around him have never seen him this tired. trump hates sleeping in hotels. makes sense when you own fancy ones all over the world. he makes every effort to fly home to new york or palm beach after these rallies which means he's sometimes landing at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. rolling out of bed to hit the road again. he's traveling with a shoestring
6:33 pm
staff. doesn't have speech writers. he's kind of writing notes on the fly. this is a one-man show. what you are seeing. you are seeing the effects of that. the benefit is he's gotten this far but there are limits to what one person can do. >> there are. the flip side is he needs it to live. he needs it. he loves the attention. if he wasn't doing this, he'd be doing "the apprentice" or -- >> he didn't think he'd get this far. the plan was to go back -- >> i love the donald trump's tumultuous week narrative. what week hasn't been? and why do you think last week was different? >> i don't think it was. you pull back the lens a little bit. how many times has there been a string of headlines, donald trump insulted john mccain as being a p.o.w. donald trump has said this. you just tick off, go down the line. there's been enough apparent campaign-ending gaffes he's made and yet it hasn't dented his
6:34 pm
support. 30 to 40% of the republican primary electorate wants donald trump to be the nominee. that number has been solid. so, to me, it's unclear that this last week will change the -- fundamentally change the trajectory. >> was it a terrible week for donald trump or just people like us saying this was terrible, horrible. >> it was a bad week. >> let me ask you. here's what "the washington post" published an internal memo that trump adviser sent out to campaign staff blasting its critics. america is sick of them. their idiotic attacks remind voters why they hate the washington establishment. donald trump 1, washington establishment/media 0. so again, we're pointing out the polling and what happened. but it doesn't really show that it made that big a difference, even though you said it was a terrible week. >> it didn't make a big difference for those who were committed to donald trump. somewhere between 30% and 40% of dedicated people in conflicting
6:35 pm
parties. but trump still has some things going for him. he's attracting some people that used to be called reagan democrats. that is middle economic class working people who are inclined to vote democratic but like trump because he projects strength. he projects leadership. and he says some of the things they've been thinking such as we can't keep shipping jobs overseas. we need to build a wall, that type of thing. i think it's way too early to underestimate donald trump. even if he loses wisconsin big time, he's been hurt. he's been hurt badly and will still have the most delegates. if you have to bet the rent money you bet he goes to the republican convention with the most delegates. >> he's not going to want to lose new york. he's going to fight to the death. >> never underestimate your opponent but don't underestimate donald trump. thank you, gentlemen. always a pleasure. great article. donald trump and ted cruz both say they're confident heading into tomorrow's crucial
6:36 pm
wisconsin primary. but something has to give. who will come out on top? we'll discuss. want to remind you that no one's the same without the game... like @squirrelgirl52 who writes, "no football on sundays has left me with a lot of free time. "so i've constructed a small sanctuary for local squirrels. it's a safe haven where they can meet and fall in love and..." ok, i'm going to stop reading right now. you might have some issues that go beyond football's help, but try watching the nfl draft. see if that helps. maybe watch with a friend... or doctor.
6:37 pm
you premium like clockwork. month after month. year after year. then one night, you hydroplane into a ditch. yeah... surprise... your insurance company tells you to pay up again. why pay for insurance if you have to pay even more for using it? if you have liberty mutual deductible fund™, you could pay no deductible at all. sign up to immediately lower your deductible by $100. and keep lowering it $100 annually, until it's gone. then continue to earn that $100 every year. there's no limit to how much you can earn and this savings applies to every vehicle on your policy. call to learn more. switch to liberty mutual and you could save up to $509. call liberty mutual for a free quote today at see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.
6:38 pm
[ woman ] thanks. the dealership reviews on cars.com made it easy, but... [ man ] we thought it might be a little more tense. you miss the drama? yeah. [ technician ] ask him whatever you want. okay. ♪ do you think my sister's prettier than me? ♪ [ laughs ] [ male announcer ] research, price, find. only cars.com helps you get the right car without all the drama.
6:39 pm
and we're back.
6:40 pm
ted cruz leads in the latest wisconsin polls by donald trump. teasing a big surprise in tomorrow's primary. joining me now, sarah huckabee sanders a senior adviser for the trump campaign and the superpac supporting ted cruz and the author of "too dumb to fail," how the gop betrayed the reagan revolution to win elections. matthew kenneth lewis as he says when he's in trouble with his parents. so you aren't in trouble but good evening to all of you. sarah, cruz is expected to win most of wisconsin's 42 delegates tomorrow. what's the trump campaign's plan if that happens? >> you know, i think our plan is the same. i think we're going into wisconsin. we're looking to pick up as many delegates as possible. the same way we go into every state. we look to win. at the end of the day, we'll do really well in wisconsin. we'll pick up some delegates. even if we don't win, this is the last place that ted cruz has
6:41 pm
a chance to do well. from here, moving forward in the rest of april, wisconsin only has 40 -- roughly 46 delegates at stake. moving on the rest of april, 267, which i think are almost all likely -- >> okay, back to -- let me jump in here, sarah. do you think that, would a wisconsin win for cruz make a contested convention likely do you think, sarah? >> no, i don't think so. i still think at this point donald trump is the only person that can get to 1,237. and i think by the end of april it will become mathematically impossible for ted cruz to get there. i hope he'll follow the request he's made of john kasich over the last several months and do the right thing and get out of the race and clear the path for donald trump so we can set our sights where it needs to be, and that's on hillary clinton. >> matt, stand by. kelly, that was an eye roll. you did not agree with that at all. >> we've been hearing this suine before the first vote was cast.
6:42 pm
if he can't win new hampshire, we hear this every single time. ladies and gentlemen, ted cruz should be coming in third in wisconsin because trump's message is basically picked up where scott walker left off for the working class folks, fairness and john kasich who is the governor of a neighboring state in ohio, and he's been in new york all week while people have been retail politicking across wisconsin. there's no way to really spin tomorrow if cruz gets a win. it's a huge win because it's an upper midwest state. it's different than the other states. the whole idea the map never looks good for cruz. let's respect the voters in the upcoming states. a lot of them like new york are not winner-take-all. there's going to be a huge media story in our own backyard. sanders will give hillary a run for her money and cruz and kasich will be challenging trump. >> matt, what do you make of ted cruz? he's winning right now, pollwise, in wisconsin. >> i think he's going to win wisconsin.
6:43 pm
something sarah said that i think she's right about. ted cruz keeps saying, john kasich is math catically -- it's mathematically impossible for john kasich to win the delegates so he should get out. guess what? there's probably going to come a time when ted cruz is mathem mathematically impossible for him to be the nominee but he'll still be entirely relevant because it's not about ted cruz winning outright the delegates. it's about stopping donald trump from doing it. that's what it's been for months now. >> so you think if he doesn't win wisconsin, do you think that, speaking of that magic delegate number, 1,237, do you think this is a contested convention, and do you think donald trump can get to 1,237 if he doesn't win wisconsin? >> i think wisconsin is incredibly important. if trump wins wisconsin, he gets 1,237. if trump does not win wisconsin, i don't think he gets 1,237. >> it's huge. you had the segment earlier, the
6:44 pm
waterloo. >> waterloo, that bad? >> i like the illiteration. i like the wisconsin ill illiteration. in the upcoming contest, the growth -- if you look at the trend lines, he overperforms in the latest public polling. donald trump's voters get there early. they are loyal and don't go anywhere. the growth opportunities of late have not been the trump vote. they've been the non-trump vote. >> i don't think that's works moving forward beyond wisconsin. that's the only place you're seeing any growth for ted cruz. if you look at some of the states coming up the rest of april, that's donald trump. in fact, i think ted cruz will be battling to win second place in a lot of those states and beat john kasich. a really tough road ahead. >> it goes by congressional district and then you get sort of an extra bit of delegation as you do tomorrow in wisconsin if you win the state overall. it's not winner-take-all. >> kellyanne and i speak, you
6:45 pm
are a geek and aers nerds. here are the trend lines, the analyt analytics. the question to both of you, do you think that donald trump has the ground game that is necessary to win wis -- not only wisconsin at this point but the other primaries possibly or other delegates that may have been missing? like he's going back in kentucky. do you think donald trump can do that? you have all these geeks and nerds looking at ways to do things that the trump campaign may not be doing. >> if you want me to point to one deficit of the trump campaign it would be that. he got 18 of the 25 delegates in north dakota. the first six delegates awarded at the colorado convention. that's because of the infrastructure, data analytics. i don't think that trump's
6:46 pm
deficits are the people around him. they are very talented professionals. their candidate has been the front-runner for almost a year, practically since the day he announced. you can't create data analytics and infrastructure overnight. and it's starting to cost him. if we get to a contested convention, there will be some hand wringing if not regret over not having the folks in place to go to north dakota, to colorado, where it really counted. >> sarah, you want to respond to that? >> i think that -- i love kellyanne and think she does great work. one of the things they are missing is we have had a tremendous ground game. you know, our focus hasn't been necessarily on data analytics because that's not what this race is about. it's about bringing voters together. that's something donald trump has been able to do. and the fact that he has 2 million more votes than ted cruz is a big thing to look at. you can't do that if you don't have some type of operation and organization bringing those people together.
6:47 pm
again, i don't mean to be rude but if you look at the scoreboard here, donald trump is significantly further ahead than any other candidate. you can't accomplish that if you don't have an operation, a team, a ground game working together to win those states and bring those delegates to the table. >> i've got to go to break. stay with me. i know you're raring to get in. donald trump has a rocky relationship with women voters, but does he have a plan to turn things around is the question? s i got a leaf right away. a leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. i learned that my ten times great grandmother is george washington's aunt. within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, i'm related to george washington. this is my cousin george. discover your story. start searching for free now at ancestry.com ♪
6:48 pm
[engine revs] ♪ ♪ [engine revving] the all-new audi a4 is here.
6:49 pm
and to connect us with thes twonderment of nature. with the tiger image, the saliva coming off and you got this turning. that's why i need this kind of resolution and computing power. being able to use a pen like this on the screen directly with the image, it just gives me a different relationship to it and i can't do that on my mac. this is brilliant for me.
6:50 pm
what if there was a paint that made you look at paint differently question everything you know and what you don't know what if it's built with better ingredients given super powers and even a secret base to test those powers. since benjamin moore reinvented paint, it makes you wonder is it still paint? find benjamin moore paint, only at one of our authorized retailers near you.
6:51 pm
maybe the key to this campaign, will that be bad news for donald trump? back with me now, sarah huckabee sanders and matt lewis. i want to ask you about this before we get to the women thing. both trump and cruz, they want kasich to drop out but he's determined to stay in. should he quit? >> no. ted cruz should be encouraging john kasich to stay in the race and go to pennsylvania and try to win in pennsylvania. i've been saying this for months now. it's not about -- ted cruz is not going to get to 1237. like, if he doesn't know that, i'll just tell him that. it ain't happening. ted cruz will not get to 1237. but that doesn't matter. you've got to stop donald trump from getting it. and i think that ted cruz very
6:52 pm
well might emerge from a contested convention as the nominee. >> okay. so then who does it hurt? is it fair to say it's hurting one candidate more than the other? he has every right to stay in the race. >> i think that trump doesn't like it because he has finally caught on to the fact that kasich could pick off some -- could win pennsylvania, and they could go to new york and trump wins new york but ted cruz picks up delegates by winning some counties. john kasich wins some counties and it's depriving him of the delegates he needs. i think he's onto that. >> kelly anne, donald trump's favorability with women is at an all-time low. >> donald trump's favorability -- unfavorability
6:53 pm
rating among women is 68%. hillary is at 58%. there is a presumption that trump has an unfavorability rating among women. but men dislike her and don't want her to become commander in chief. trump, his all-time ratings with women being low, it's a combination of the chicago rally and it's also retweeting the picture of heidi cruz. it was just mean. people don't look at that as visionary. could he turn it around if he's a nominee? absolutely. he hasn't taken the swipes at hillary yet. >> do you think cruz is doing enough? >> he certainly tries in wisconsin. wisconsin stands alone tomorrow and that's going to be a huge test in many ways. one of them is, has cruz's new strategy to be out there with his mom, who we haven't seen much of, eleanor and carly
6:54 pm
fiorina at a big event in wisconsin last week. it's fair built rating among women in wisconsin is higher than it's been in any state. >> sarah, what's the plan to turn this around, then, for women? >> i think once we move into the general election, where i think donald trump will be the nominee and you stack up his numbers against hillary, he's in a really good position and i think, as he starts focusing on that general election, you're going to see his numbers would women improve. look, i'm a wife, i'm a mom and i'm one of millions of women supporting donald trump. women care about a lot of the same things that men do despite the fact that nobody wants to talk about that. we want to know, is the economy going to be better, is our country going to be safe and are we going to be able to provide a better future for our kids and that is something that donald trump is speaking to that a lot of people aren't listening to. >> sarah, i have to ask you, though -- >> yes. >> -- if i had to do it all over again, i wouldn't retweet that
6:55 pm
picture. that obviously hurt him. that was a real turning point for a lot of people. as kellyanne said, many people saw that as mean. >> i think he saw that, too, and that's why he's come out and since said, if he had to do it over again, he wouldn't do it. >> why doesn't he say i'm sorry? why doesn't he apologize? i know he told anderson cooper he can't remember the last time he and apologized. but people like to see humility. >> sarah? >> i think that was the goal in what he was going for in his response in the last 24 hours saying that he wouldn't have said that and he would take it back if he could. >> you know what the problem i think is that he will make this mistake again because he can't not do this. i think donald trump has a problem with strong women. it could be megyn kelly, rosie o'donnell, heidi cruz and i think it will be an issue and i think hillary clinton can exploit it. i think trump is going to drive turnout if he's the nominee for
6:56 pm
hillary as well as for trump. and, you know, almost anything that trump could say, if he says, hillary, with the e-mails, i think you're a criminal, she says, well, your campaign manager was arrested for battery of a woman. it seems like this is going to be an issue that doesn't go away because i think donald trump has a problem with women. >> to be continued. i'm sorry. quickly, sarah? >> sorry. >> go ahead. real quick. >> i think that's absolutely and patently false. he's employed women at the highest level -- >> they work for him. they work for him. he doesn't like women who challenges him. >> i've got to get to the top of the hour on time or i'll be in trouble. appreciate it. when we come back, donald trump's retweet. did it hurt him with voters? we know what "saturday night live" thinks about that. >> that was an accident. okay? because donald's pants are just so big, he can't see every
6:57 pm
little tweet his fingers retweet. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed. well, let's be clear here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. or building the best houses in town. or becoming the next highly-unlikely dotcom superstar. and us, we'll be right there with you, helping with the questions you need answered to get your brand new business started. we're legalzoom and we've already partnered with over a million new business owners to do just that. check us out today to see how you can become one of them. legalzoom. legal help is here.
6:58 pm
...to put in dr. scholl's active series insoles. they help reduce wear and tear on my legs, becuase they have triple zone protection. ... and reduce shock by 40%. so i feel like i'm ready to take on anything. what backache? what sore wrist? what headache? advil makes pain a distant memory. nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain? advil.
6:59 pm
7:00 pm
here's our breaking news tonight. hillary clinton and bernie sanders will go head to head right here on cnn in brooklyn on april 14th. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. we're also counting down to th