tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 20, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
good evening, welcome to the next phase of the presidential campaign that a lot of experts would be done weeks ago. new york mattered, and tonight, we are seeing the fallout. hillary clinton accelerating her level of the campaign, bernie sanders vowing to stay in until the end. ted cruz and john kasich going to florida, trying to turn a possible contested convention into a winnable one.
donald trump back on the campaign trail tonight. when it comes to cruz, the republican party back on the war path. more on all of it in the hour ahead, starting with republicans and jim acosta. >> reporter: in indianapolis, a victory lap for donald trump, after taking the checkered flag in the new york primary miles ahead of his nearest rivals. >> the vote was incredible. they know me, they know the good, the bad, the everything. they know me. >> reporter: trump is not only savoring a win in his home state, he captured nearly every delegate, he took a massive leap toward the magic number to reach the nomination. a trump memo boldly projects he will have 1400 delegates heading into the republican convention, attacks party establishment saying this movement scares the
hell out of them so they will do whatever they can to keep power. this system is rigged to allow party insiders to choose delegates, not the people. >> the democrat system is rigged, but the republican system is even worse. you have a rigged system, folks. >> reporter: he insists ted cruz is trying to exploit. >> we don't have much of a race any more, based on what i am seeing on television. senator cruz is just about mathematically eliminated. >> reporter: trump carried that battle cry onto twitter tweeting all cruz can do is be a spoiler, never a nice thing to do. i will beat hillary. response from team cruz, not so fast. >> you may have heard there was an election. as the media are breathlessly reporting, donald trump won his home state.
truly a remarkable achievement. >> reporter: the texas senator notes trump is hundreds short of the 1237 needed to win the nomination and time is running out. >> the math is virtually impossible for donald trump. donald trump is not get to go 1237. nobody is getting to 1237. he knows that. which means this race is headed to cleveland, headed to contested convention. >> reporter: cruz says lap dogs in the media are trying to declare the race over. >> everyone knew donald would win his home state. if you look at the frenzied panic he wants the race to be over now that he won his home state, it shows why donald is scared. >> reporter: now that talking points memo from trump to surrogates claims that officials are working delegates as hard as the other campaigns. that's a slam on the cruz campaign, tries to push back on the narrative, talking about the memo, that trump is too unpopular to win the presidency, pointing to sizable negatives for hillary clinton.
>> jim acosta, thanks. joining the panel, sanders surrogate, author of "the essential bernie sanders" and his vision for america. everybody else is sticking around. the circumstances, under what circumstances does donald trump continue not to grow his lead, not continue to grow his lead? the next several states look good for him, very good. there's no question he will grow. even in states he is not looking good except for the few that are winner take all, nebraska, maybe
one other. he is still going to grow his lead. the question is can he grow to the point he can get that majority to get past as sean spicer said in the last hour, in a way frankly i haven't heard the republican party articulate in such a way, past the second yard line, to the point he has a winning hand and that 1237 is a winning hand and it is very, very clear the party is not going to let him get the nomination showing up with the most votes. >> when you hear sean spicer, he said he has to have 1237, if not goes to another round. the problem for rnc is that their own voters disagree. without republican voters, you don't have a party. as for his sports analogy about
how you don't win without majority of points, most sports you also didn't win by bribing referees, that's what you can do under rules of rnc. you can bribe delegates. people think people should vote, colorado should vote. don't cancel elections, don't bribe delegates. >> how do you see it working if he doesn't get first round, goes to second round and ted cruz gets the delegates. isn't that over? what does he do? you say the people should have the right to vote, that they're not going to stand for that. what does that mean though? >> he needs to win first ballot, you say to the delegates the american people are speaking, 200 unbound delegates. he is going to get 1100. definitely probably more than that. probably 1237. you go to the 200 unbound delegates and say listen to your voters, they say whoever has most votes should win. you come to my side, listen to the voters, power is in your hands. >> this propaganda lie about delegates are being bribed, this is a rigged system, there's a crooked system, it is so unfair. there is no proof of that whatsoever that any shenanigans are going on.
the cruz campaign is playing by the rules, doing what people have done for campaigns for years and years. the idea that not having to reach 1237 is somehow should change for trump is something around since 1856. to elaborate on the sports analogy, if almost is good enough, i guess the tennessee titans would be super bowl champions in 2000. anybody saw that, inches matter in football. the idea that donald trump continues to feed this false narrative that it is a rigged system, it is red meat for people that don't understand how it works, but it is completely unfair and just propaganda continued on and on. there's nothing rigged about the delegate system or the electoral college. >> if trump doesn't get it, if it goes to second ballot, cruz
likely wins, not because cruz is buying delegates. >> exactly. >> it is because people who become delegates are party activists, regulars, stall warts, part of the republican party year in and year out. donald trump, you never talk about this, but he has philosophical problems with the conservative movement. planned parenthood. he supports universal health care. there are substantive issues where hardcore conservatives and republican activists have deep, substantial, substantive problems with trump. >> and you said this, he hasn't put in the work and the organization which ted cruz has to abide by the rules. >> my question, should it be activists deciding, do you agree with colorado party decision to cancel -- >> should the republicans, do we want a republican party that's
top down command and control, that the rnc says this is how you will select delegates or do we want to empower 50 state republican parties, some have caucuses, some have conventions, some have open primaries, some have closed primaries. that's what we're talking about. >> how about empowering the people? would any responsible leader have a problem cancelling the popular vote? >> first of all, that's not what happened in colorado. state legislature decided to go back to caucus. there was no the party bosses woke up and said oh, let's do this. no. >> it is unbinding that the presidential preference that they have in colorado. they have precinct caucuses where average folks, stakeholders in the republican party and grass roots organizers vote. then they move on. >> also, people make the argument that it is undemocratic. you can make the same argument about caucuses. only party activists that go
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and -- he could get enough delegates to overtake clinton, it would be hard before last night. with the big win in new york, secretary clinton is trying to press the advantage, senator sanders is looking for new ways to win. >> the race for the democratic nomination is in the home stretch, victory is in sight. >> reporter: hillary clinton looking ahead, triumph at home in new york cementing her position as the likely democratic nominee. intense battle with bernie sanders suddenly giving way to an olive branch. >> to all of the people who supported senator sanders, i believe there's much more that unites us than divides us. >> reporter: sanders insists he's not going anywhere, telling supporters in a fundraising appeal, we still have a path to the nomination, our plan is to win pledge delegates in this primary. just saying it doesn't make it
so. the math always a challenge is now a firm roadblock for sanders. those big crowds that rallied new york, raising expectations for what turned into a punishing 16 point defeat. tonight, clinton leads by 253 pledge delegates, with superdelegates, she moves closer to the magic number of 2383, needed to clinch the democratic nomination. sanders advisers concede the campaign fell short. >> we are farther behind in delegates than we hoped to be. >> reporter: after a raucous election rally at penn state university, filled with blistering attacks on clinton. >> secretary clinton has given speeches behind closed doors to wall street firms for $225,000 a speech. must be an earth shattering speech. >> reporter: a subdued sanders arrived in vermont where he intended to recharge and rest, but not rethink his campaign.
>> no, we think we have the message that is resonating throughout this country. we have come a long, long way. we have taken on the entire democratic political establishment. >> reporter: the democratic establishment is growing restless, worrying sanders could be a spoiler by attacking clinton's honesty and integrity. the communications director for clinton told reporters sanders has been destructive and is not productive to democrats, particularly suggesting clinton is corrupt. a line of attack republicans are already seizing on. for now, clinton is taking a more subtle approach. >> under the bright lights of new york we have seen that it is not enough to diagnose problems. you have to explain how you'd actually solve the problems. >> reporter: making clear her eye is once again on november. >> donald trump and ted cruz are pushing a vision for america
that's divisive and frankly dangerous. >> jeff zeleny joins us now. what is next for bernie sanders? he was taking today off in vermont, he is back on the trail tomorrow. >> yes. in the short term, pennsylvania, he has three events tomorrow in pennsylvania. he will be in pennsylvania again friday. the longer term is a little less clear for him. most candidates at this point sort of run out of money, gas, support. that's not happening for bernie sanders. in fact, tonight his campaign filed their disclosure report for the last month, raising $46 million. he had $17 million cash on hand. that's not an issue here. the challenge for senator sanders is in the next week. can he put big wins on the board next week, maybe in pennsylvania. would that keep his momentum alive? the clinton campaign feels confident again about next week. they're all closed primaries like new york. democrats only.
the issue for senator sanders is how he moves forward, will he close down the campaign as a protest candidate or problem candidate for hillary clinton. some democrats worried that he is eating her credibility on trust, honesty, other things. jane sanders is one of his top advisers, they huddled together all day. what she advises him, their private discussions get a lot of insight into how he goes forward, how aggressively he goes forward. >> jeff zeleny, thanks so much. back with the panel. as a sanders supporter, do you want to see your candidate still go after hillary clinton as hard as he has been, albeit on the issues, or do you want to see for the future of the party, however it pans out, change in tone or focus? >> i want to answer that. something happened before that i want to comment on. i saw the segment before. i think it is easy for christine and i as progressive to
criticize donald trump. i want to give problems to tara. in her own party, it is hard to stand up, call donald trump what he is. as a democrat that never voted for a republican, i congratulate you for having that courage. >> you cancelled my conservative -- >> i think that's very important coming from a conservative to call him out because of what it means to the country. thank you very much. look, i think there's a difference between personal attacks, which bernie hasn't engaged in and the issues. when dana pressed hillary about the wall street transcript, kept after it, like a good reporter, never got an answer. the wall street transcripts is about corruption in government. i don't mean some illegal thing, but the influence pedaling, that
they think affected democracy. >> that's been asked about to name a specific example. >> and i will give you -- >> i will give you the answer. the bankruptcy bill. when hillary clinton opposed the bankruptcy bill, then became the second most recipient of banking money. magically was for the bankruptcy. to explain to the viewers, that made it impossible for regular working people to file bankruptcy. affected millions of people. hillary clinton went with the bank industry. that's a very specific thing that hurt millions of working americans.
>> it was more complicated that than. senator sanders was pushed to give a specific example. he had no example. i think that his silence spoke volumes about how baseless this charge is. if you want to talk about industries and impact, why is the gun industry, the only industry out there in america that senator sanders americans shouldn't have the right to sue against. we don't do it with the car industry or pharmaceuticals, why does he have that position?
why does he have that position? is it because there are -- is it the exact politics you claim you don't want to have? >> i think he answered that a number of times. >> not to my satisfaction. >> sorry you're not satisfied. i will answer again for the audience. he said he was concerned in that legislation that if some local guy in vermont, whether you agree with the explanation or not, walked into the store, bought a legal product, went crazy in a theater, that person shouldn't be held responsible. at the same time bernie said subsequent he wants to rethink this. he is open, the public said, he is open to -- >> let's move on. not get policy specific. >> sorry. >> that's fine. just to get peter and dana in on this. do you see rhetoric changing or needing to change? a lot on the clinton side are concerned about where this race goes in the final weeks. >> i think she will be fine. i don't think the history of primary suggests that candidates are that damaged by these fights. barack obama and hillary clinton was tough. i think what's remarkable, even though i think hillary clinton will be the nominee, bernie sanders won the argument.
she never defends wall street. # if you had gone back to the 1990s, what bill clinton would have said is no. yes, there are excesses, but wall street has a role, allocates capital. we need financial markets. they do valuable things. what's remarkable is that she never tried to make that argument in response to bernie sanders. that suggests how much he has won the debate inside the democratic party. >> makes an excellent point. he defined that primary. hillary clinton has taken positions she has never taken before. cnn itself looked at how many times she called the trans-pacific partnership. over 40 times. magically never been -- >> a number of policy changes. often before the debate.
>> hillary clinton is not the hillary clinton that you would expect. >> there's enough, you mention the gun industry, that's something that's turned on its head for the democratic party because i'm old enough to remember when democrats didn't want to touch the gun debate with a ten foot pole because they felt rightly so in many cases they were getting beaten all over the south, many heavily rural states because they were so anti-gun. those days are completely over. the irony of all ironies, you have a progressive candidate from a gun state that hillary clinton wanted to get collected -- >> i remember in 2008 calling -- >> and in pennsylvania, clinging to their guns. >> the republican party this time will not be able to nominate a strong enough candidates to make democrats pay for that. in this election, that would hurt the democrats. >> we have to take a break. can ted cruz and john kasich do anything. would republican party meeting
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first, the candidates, obviously ted cruz and john kasich are down here in person today to meet with the 168 rnc members, at least as many as they can fit in quick appearances here. there's a good reason why. all 168 are voting delegates at the cleveland convention. as you look at the possibility of open convention, these are the type of people these candidates want to hear their message and potentially consider jumping on board with it, if not on the first ballot, possibly the second. the other is closed door meetings between rnc members. you talked about the rules. coming out of the meeting, not necessarily that there will be changes to the rules going into convention, there won't be. but there will be recommendations in how the committee resolves issues that have blown up the last couple days about what the rules recommendations will look like are very important. that's what we get answer to tomorrow. today is how to resolve issues behind the scenes. >> to be clear, you said it, to repeat for emphasis, it won't effect any of the rules for this convention, correct? it is delegates that decide that. >> reporter: that's exactly right. coming out of this meeting, there won't be changes to the rules. what this does is set a template for the rules committee meeting. this is getting in the weeds. no question about it. why it matters is the reality that a lot of the 168 members and staff are dealing with inside the hotel behind me. contested convention is a possibility. if that's the case, the rules
package that comes out the week before the convention will be extraordinarily important in guiding how it looks. that's what makes this week most important. i think expectation is what they send across this week will look very much like it did before the week started. the conversations that are happening, potential for rules changes that might be considered going forward, all those issues being batted around behind the scenes. that's why this is an important week. >> phil mattingly, thanks. earlier i spoke with sean spicer, he said the rules are the rules, the candidates have to know them and follow them. listen. >> takes 1237 delegates to pass any order of business. i think we have to remember that. there's no other time we would say, whether politics or sports, hey, if you get to the 2 yard line, that counts as a touchdown. that's just not how the rules work. then it would be incumbent on the trump campaign and other campaigns to make case to the
delegates on the first round of voting, and on subsequent votes to get to the majority. that's the process we have gone through, dating back to 1856, ultimately majority of delegates cover every aspect of the convention. >> cnn analyst, mike shields. what can leaders do if they can't change the rules? cruz and kasich thought it was important enough to fly down there. >> but this is a meeting of the republican national committee, 168 members of the rnc which is the republican party are in the hotel as phil said, meeting here, having what is a quarterly meeting, regularly scheduled meeting that was already going to take place. when they're all in one place, these things are being discussed, on the verge of what could be contested convention, how are we handling that, what things have to be in place. from the chairman's perspective, they're trying to put open, transparent convention. if you have a contested convention, there will be delegate arguments and rules
that have to go on. the rnc has to play a role to be transparent, put something on that the public can see being handled by delegates and not anybody else. that's a big priority for the chairman. >> look ahead to after california, june 7 say trump doesn't have 1237 needed to secure the nomination. what happens then? the unbound delegates could make or break the game at that point. >> they could. so you'll see a campaign just to unbound delegates. almost like a mini campaign, just to people that are unbound to try to put him over. you see critics of the rnc rules now, the trump campaign, some in the media, blogger, what they're not saying is what they would do. they're upset with the rules, even though they're the rules as sean spicer said they have been around forever. but they aren't coming up with what should be different? i think what you'll see is realization after june 8, these are the rules, delegates will decide, they decide everything, and there will be campaign to
the delegates to win them over to put a candidate over 1237. >> in reference to unbound delegates, someone close to trump's team told politico it is like a super bowl ticket, the price only goes up. going on to say if i were a delegate, i would be unpledged and hang my hat out there, think there would be free trips to cleveland. is that what this comes down to, wining and dining? >> give the delegates more credit than that. sure, you try to influence them. these are county folks that worked up through the republican party. they care about the country. i have faith in the delegates. people that put up the yard signs, put on the bumper stickers with the funny hats, hardly what you consider to be establishment, and i think they'll try to decide what's best for the country. in the past when we had open convention through history, the delegates made a decision based on who they thought could win in the fall. that's a case they have to make to delegates, who can beat hillary clinton in the fall.
>> mike shields, thanks very much. coming up, first criminal charges in the flint, michigan crisis. promise of more to come. city and state employees charged with misconduct, neglect. some residents say after all they have been through won't be happy until the governor resigns or is in jail. much more ahead. get a $120 rebate by mail on four select tires.
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it is a question with many possible answers. who is to blame for the contaminated water crisis in flint, michigan. today criminal charges were filed. some say the blame goes to the top to the governor, want him held accountable. three have been charged with willful neglect of duty, misconduct in office, tampering with evidence. >> i only did it because i was instructed to. >> reporter: in his only sit down interview given to cnn last month, mike glasgow, one of those charged in the flint water crisis admitted he altered reports which made the water here seem safe when it was not. glasgow worked at flint's water treatment plant for a good portion of his career. >> who told you to eliminate the highest two samples?
>> that would have been two gentlemen from the michigan department of environmental quality. >> can you tell me who? >> michael prysby, stephen busch. >> did you ever argue whether or not you should change it? >> no, i asked the question why, and they gave, they cited some solidified reasons, reasoning to remove a couple of items, so i didn't question it much further. >> reporter: the items were homes with high lead levels, part of a water quality report that would have raised red flags about flint's drinking water. instead it was months before it was discovered that flint wasn't following federal corrosion control regulation and the water was poison. >> they failed michigan families. indeed, they failed us all. i don't care where you live. >> reporter: the michigan attorney general charged glasgow wednesday with tampering with evidence and neglect, not buying
glasgow's claim that he was simply following orders, the special prosecutor compare pairing to nazi war criminals defense. >> that defense didn't work in places where you're ordered to do something, nuremburg and the like. tough situation with regards to mr. glasgow, but when you did a criminal act overt act and had the corrupt mind to do that act, you're going to be charged. >> reporter: the charges pile higher for michael prysby and busch. busch wrote in an e-mail to the epa flint had optimized corrosion control when it did not. the crisis here has left flint deprived of clean water for nearly two years. it caused flint children to be poisoned with lead. 12 people died from the water born legion air's disease, and they're investigating a link to poorly treated water. the investigation won't stop here. >> these charges are only the
beginning. >> reporter: the michigan attorney general said they wouldn't rule out anyone as they continue to investigate, even embattled governor rick snyder. >> no one is above the law. >> reporter: desperately trying to hang onto his job, snyder announced he would drink filtered flint water for 30 days to make a point it was safe. something that offended many flint residents. twitter lit up with comments like these. an important tip to remember is to not trust you. you should resign. and filtered? enjoy. they ain't serving you filtered water in the clink. today when asked whether he believes he did anything criminal, snyder gave little. >> i don't believe so. >> reporter: the governor admitted to bearing some responsibility as does mike glasgow. there might be some members of the community that believe you share responsibility for this. what do you say to them?
>> i think about that every day. i was a key figure i guess in some of this looking at i am operating the treatment plant, overseeing some of the sampling, but born and raised here in flint. i would never do nothing to hurt this city or its citizens. >> what happened in court? did they enter pleas? >> reporter: two of them did, anderson. stephen busch, michael prysby entered pleas of not guilty. mike glasgow is yet to be arraigned. there are several employees above these three that made significant decisions that played out in the course of this crisis. many report to the governor directly. that's something we will be looking forward as the investigation continues. you heard the attorney general say there will be more charges coming. >> more charges coming. what's the reaction in flint? >> reporter: well, you know, the people here have been enduring being called a liar, being called liars, complainers for 18
months while they voiced concerns about their water. today was a significant day for them. one of the key residents, lee ann walters, among the highest lead levels in the home. the children tested high for lead in blood, she's a huge advocate here. when i asked her about today, she said michael glasgow was one of the few officials she felt was trying to help, trying to do the right thing, in many ways feels he was scapegoated, anderson. >> thanks. we met another resident, mickey wade, met her at a presidential debate and where they had questions to ask of hillary clinton and bernie sanders. asking how she could regain trust in a government that failed her and her family. >> the water impacted our lives in such way that living comfortably in our home isn't the same any more. the constant drives to pick up water so the children can watch
their hair, to wash fruits and vegetables, to brush our teeth is incredibly difficult. once the pipes are replaced, i'm not for sure i will be comfortable ever drinking the water. >> i spoke with mickey wade before we went on the air. mickey, what's your reaction to the charges. what do you make of what residents say, that these three individuals are perhaps scapegoats. do you agree with that? >> a bit, yes, i do. actually bittersweet for me because i'm happy to see some type of justice happening, but sad, too, because i feel like they're definitely scapegoats and the person that's responsible to me and the leader of our government is not being, nothing is being done to him whatsoever. >> let me ask you about it. i assume you're talking about governor snyder. he says today he didn't believe he did anything criminally wrong. do you think he should be facing charges?
okay for the future. >> once the pipes were ed, you don't know if you would be comfortable using the water again? do you feel that way? >> i haven't taken a bath in two years. showers, i don't shower, we use nothing but bottled water. i pay a company, it cost says me 35 to 55 dollars a month to have water delivered. i don't see people delivering water in our city as much as it was in the beginning. i am scared that spotlight on us is dimming quickly. >> i appreciate you talking tonight, and representing your community. thank youo much. >> thank you for having me on here anderson. >> a change for u.s. kurnency, a
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haven't done. just you wait. hamilton creator, who just won the pullit zer prize. when hamilton took over the country, the government had no choice but to pay attention. >> rise up, rise up. >> they found themselves in a bind. they could no longer remove hamilton from the $10 because of this pop culture phenomenon going on. >> the 20 came into play. announced today, the new 20 will feature hariet tubman, who lead enslaved people to freedom on the under ground railroad. >> andrew jackson is not a sustainable hero the way hamilton s mainly do to the fact of his promotion of genocide of
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$5 the battle for new york is won, but the war for delegates is far from over. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. donald trump not changing his tune despite his huge win in new york. >> it's a rigged, crooked system that's designed so that the bosses can pick whoever they want and that people like me can't run and can't defend you against foreign nonsense and can't defend you against china and japan and mexico and vietnam and india and every single country you could name because we lose with every -- we lose -- believe me, with every deal we do. >> but as far as ted cruz is concerned, the plus-size lady, shall we say, ain't singing yet. >> donald is on a path