tv Smerconish CNN April 23, 2016 6:00am-7:01am PDT
favorite quotes from him was all music can be inspirational. that's why it's so important to let your gift be guided by something more clear. very profound words from him. victor, thank you so much. no other state will send as many unbound delegate to the republican convention this july as my home state of pennsylvania. my state's crazy rules mean that no matter who wins the gop vote on tuesday, 54 delegates can still support whoever they want. is that fair? so which candidates will still be smiling after tuesday's primaries in the keystone and four other east coast states? plus, i'll talk to some of the
90,000 pennsylvania voters who switched their registration to the gop for the primary, many hoping to either help or hurt donald trump. >> i needed to switch parties. >> i'm tired of being blamed for all of the people who don't want to get off their butt and get a job. >> donald trump has been in real estate for so many years and i'm quite sure he's still in real estate. >> he's saying it from his heart. >> something equivalent to third grade recess. >> we're going to learn it's a $1 bet between him and another rich guy. >> when donald trump joined, we all decided that we weren't going to vote because it was [ bleep ]. >> we'll get to that panel of pennsylvania voters later. they had a lot to say. first, here's why my home state might be responsible for delivering the nomination to donald trump or th warting the gop front runner. whoever wins on tuesday keeps 54
of its 71 delegates in play. with 15 contests left donald trump has 846 delegates. he needs to get to 1237 to clinch the nomination. there are 674 remaining in play. and according to cnn's number crunchers, if he continues at his current rate of victory he could finish about 75 delegates shy, so trump needs unbound delegates. no doubt he'll seek to corral the delegates of candidates who have dropped out of the race, think marco rubio, but beyond those, the largest single group up for grabs will be pennsylvania's 54 free agent delegates who due to my state's whacky laws will not be obligated to follow the wishes of the voters they represent. it's just one of many examples of my state's rules that drive me crazy. and get this, the pennsylvania ballot, it contains no information about the perspective delegates candidate choice which forces voters to try and figure out who are these
delegate candidates and how might they vote at the convention? this week i decided to do some investigating in my home congressional district where four candidates are competing for three delegate slots. i e-mailed each and i asked them for whom they intended to vote on the first ballot in cleveland and what would be their approach thereafter. two of them wouldn't commit. another revealed a strong preference for ted cruz and only one said she'd followed the results as voted on by the electora electorate. think about what this means about the convoluted nature of the primary. i could be represented at the convention by three delegates who won't vote based on who won the district that sent them there. this is why people refer to pennsylvania's republican primary as a beauty contest. i don't like it. at the very least, delegates should be obligated to follow the will of the electorate on the first ballot. instead, these 54 are still in play after all the campaigning
and all the voting is done and you can be sure that the man who wrote the art of the deal will be looking to bargain with pennsylvania's 54 uncommitted delegates to try to close the most important deal in our country. so who are these delegates? who will get to make up their own minds? i thought i better talk to some. three join me now. it won't say on their local ballot who is they're for, but ryan bells is a student at penn state. he's for donald trump. so is matt janson. thank you for being here. let me begin with you because you're running in the second congressional district. that's where i live. i'm unsettled by the idea that say john kasich or donald trump could win the second, but you're going to go and vote at the convention for ted cruz nonetheless. how come? >> because i support conservatism and ted cruz is the
most conservative candidate that we have on the slate. >> right, but what about the idea that my voice ought to be represented? if i should vote for kasich or if i should vote for trump and they win the congressional district, it doesn't seem right to me that you go to cleveland and instead cast a ballot for ted cruz. >> well, there are four delegates or candidates for delegates running many the second congressional. i'm running publicly as a ted cruz candidate, so all the voters of the second congressional district have a chance to elect the people they want to send to the convention. >> matthew, that presupposes that the voters who go into the ballot booth know for whom any of you will be voting. it doesn't say anything inside the ballot booth. so let me ask you the same question. do you think it's proper that this is the way pennsylvania's rules should function? >> i know that there's been pockets of inertia across the
state that have sort of colessed, trump inertia that have gathered a and we've formed a group for the strong trump delegates in all districts. >> if donald trump doesn't win your congressional district will you re-evaluate whether you'll go to cleveland and vote for him on the first ballot? >> absolutely not. and i have to say absolutely not, because i'm convinced that donald trump is going to win the fourth congressional district as well as pennsylvania. >> ryan, are you being lobbied by any of the other candidates? are you getting contacted by the kasich campaign or the cruz campaign or trying to win you over? >> i've got a few e-mails from the kasich campaign, but that's it. i haven't even heard from the cruz campaign. all my communication has been from the trump campaign since the beginning. >> and what is your philosophy? what is your approach on not
only the first ballot but a second, third, fourth if they should be required? >> each and every ballot i plan to vote for donald j. trump as the nominee for the republican party. i've been a strong supporter of his since i was 7 or 8 and when i saw him come down the escalator back in june i knew he was the man that could make america great again. >> matthew, will you be open to a pitch by say john kasich who say okay, you voted for donald trump, he didn't get to 1237, look at this polling data. i'm the one who can beat hillary. will you be open to that kind of a pitch? >> absolutely not. because he can't beat hillary. i'm sorry. she's a wolf. she's a wolf. kasich did pretty well in ohio after he followed a terrible governor and there's no way. donald trump is the only one that can beat her clearly and i hope people understand that on election day. >> awe dra, they're saying i'm
going to cleveland and i am for the donald. do you feel the same way about ted cruz or is there any give? could you be persuaded on maybe a second ballot? >> i will be voting for ted cruz on all the ballots. however, i'm not opposed to a -- a joint ticket with kasich. >> you know, listen, i'm giving the three of you somewhat of a workout and i don't mean to because you didn't write the rules and i admire your passion, but there's something wrong with this picture that pennsylvanians are going to go out and vote on tuesday in many instances not knowing for whom they're voting when it gets to the delegate position and then 54 of you are going to go off to cleveland and maybe determine who will be the next republican nominee. ryan, talk me out of it. >> i completely agree with you. i mean, honestly being a trump supporter i still think it would be beneficial if it did say who
we support on the ballot because if somebody votes for mr. trump, but they pick three delegates or a cruz delegate and a kasich delegate, their vote didn't matter except for those 17 statewide delegates. if it did say who we support i think it would be better. >> donald trump is leading in the polls in pennsylvania right now. who knows how it all plays out, but to matthew and to ryan, you're absolutely right. this could come back to haunt you in so far as trump could win the state but maybe a slew of kasich or a slew of cruz delegates get elected, you guys wouldn't be happy because the will of the people wouldn't be represented. anyway, i wish all three of you good things. good luck on tuesday. i give you credit for running for delegate. okay? >> thank you. >> thank you, appreciate it. joining me now the former governor of pennsylvania. he's a supporter of john kasich. govern nor, do you think that donald trump is going to get to 1237 before cleveland?
>> well, i don't believe he is. i mean, frankly it's no secret that my friend john kasich's strategy is based upon his inability to get to 1237 as well as senator cruiz. and there's so many people talking about i won more primaries than you did. it's like kids in a sand box. in the political contest, there's no shot clock. this game goes on until somebody gets 1237, so it's still game on and frankly it's going to be a very exciting convention because of that reason because i don't think anybody's going to get to that number in either the first or second ballot. >> in which case john kais you have -- kasich will have john ridge. it's the single largest uncommitted group that will show up in cleveland. they will owe nothing to anyone, mostly to the people who sent them there. so do you view your role in cleveland, if trump doesn't get
to 1237 as hurting theerding th? >> i'll do my best even before the convention to convince them that the nominee at the convention -- and we have a lot of, as you well know, most states have a lot of grass roots, hardworking folks. the establishment is paying several hundred thousands dollars in sipping drinks and watching the action on the floor, but the people who go to the polls and knock on doors and make the phone calls, they're on the floor and i want those 54 to think not just who's at the top of the ticket, we've got an incredibly fine senator. we've got statewide elections and frankly i think john kasich is in a much better position to lead the ticket in pennsylvania than his two opponents. >> give me the benefit of your intelligence. who's the best organized among the three at having run delegates with a loyalty to them? >> well, my -- my read right now
within -- within pennsylvania and really focused on that is i think i give a slight edge to both donald trump and to the senator. john's got a place here. he's got some people working it, but the other two i think started working the delegate process before john kasich did, so i think we're going to see a mixed result next tuesday within pennsylvania. >> right. which brings me back to my original premise which is to say if your guy runs well in some of these congressional districts he may have nothing to show for it if ted cruz out hustled him on running delegates. your final thought? >> i think that's accurate and you do reward hustle and organization and we're going to see whether or not that organization is rewarded but they are committed on that first ballot. legally some of the states are committed on the second ballot, but by the time you get to the third ballot i'd like to think most people are not only interested in winning in
cleveland and the middle of summer, they want to win in november and we've got a lot of senate races at stake. a lot of other states around the country and i'd like to think we're going to pay attention to the fact that john has won head to head with hillary clinton he's 50/50 with the polls that are taken. >> if it doesn't go that way can you see yourself standing in erie at the airport that was named for you with trump's hand in the air endorsing him? >> not a chance. >> okay. well, i like the fact that you didn't beat around the bush on that. >> real simple. no, there's just nothing there for me. i will tell you, candidly, he hasn't taken criticism very well. he builds himself up by knocking other people down. he disrespected my fellow veterans, we've had thousands of thousands of pows. how can he be a commander in chief when he says pows are not heroes and every muslim is a
potential terrorist. i don't know whether it's a public or private, but what i see i don't like and i can't support him. >> when you come back, don't hold your opinion. tell me next time what you really think, okay? >> i'll be happy to, michael. >> i'm one of thousands who switched their registration to republican for tuesday's pennsylvania primary. did folks do this to help trump win or to stop him? our exclusive focus group is next. i'm terrible at golf. he is. but i'd like to keep being terrible at golf
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>> okay, gang. we all have something in common. even me. we're all brand new members of the republican party in pennsylvania. and i want to spend some time figuring out why did we each decide to join the gop at this moment in time. how many of you switched from democratic party to the republican party? raise your hand. wow, everybody. every one of you. am i the only i who became an r? yes? >> yes. >> how many of you either favorably or unfavorably were motivated by donald trump? raise your hand. oh, my. >> that's your focus group. >> maybe this is why i've never done a focus group before. okay. so i am looking at a jury of all former democrats who were motivated to become pennsylvania republicans because of donald
trump. that's the fact. who joined the republican party to vote for donald trump? raise your hand. oh, now the numbers begin to change. isn't this interesting? but something drew you in to vote for donald trump. are you voting for donald trump because you'd like him to be president? >> i truly believe he cares about us. i have always been a proud american. i'm tired of apologizing for being a proud american. i'm tired of apologizing because i go to a christian church. i'm tired of being blamed for all of the things for the people who don't want to get off tha their butt and get a job. i'm sorry to be so blank. we need a leader that's going to lead all of us. >> i heard your husband already. talk to me about donald trump from your perspective. >> i feel that donald says a lot of what the american people right now need to hear.
i actually believe he's saying it from his heart. he started saying things like the wall, like immigration, and he was told he was a bad person for doing it. now everybody is starting to come around and say that he was right, but they condemned him at the time. >> cnn did a recent survey that said that 73% of women in the country view donald trump unfavorably. you're obviously not part of the 73. >> no i'm not. >> what do you think you get about him that the 73% don't? >> the fact that he's a businessman and that our economy, our country is so definitely in need of somebody to straight out our business. >> is there anyone among you who joined to vote for trump because you want to prop him up so that hillary or bernie can beat him?
>> no. >> oh, a couple of those. >> donald trump i believe is truly a dangerous man for american democracy. if he was to be elected president it would say more about the electorate actually than donald trump. >> you don't want him to be your president even if you vote for him. it's to prop him up? >> it would be to set up the showdown in the general election or -- yeah, essentially i don't want donald trump to be president and i listen to cruz and he's even scarier in many ways. >> i agree with you. >> why not cruz? >> have you seen about that machine gun bacon? it's cruz making bay gone on a machine gun muzzle putting tinfoil around it and he actually ate it and i'm thinking, that's the guy running for president who wants to show how you can make bacon from a machine gun. i don't know, it struck me as so bizarre. >> michael, you are a retired
criminal defense attorney. you've heard a lot of bs from that witness stand. >> i'm still hearing it. >> maybe even some from your clients. who knows? how do you look at these candidates? >> well, originally when i switched parties to the republican party was to vote against trump, but the more i thought about it, let me just preface by saying none of the candidates on either side make me want to run out and vote for them. so when it comes time for me to vote i'm going to probably wind up voting for trump or cruz because i think either democrat will win handily in the fall and even in that respect, it's still the lesser of two evils in my mind. >> so recognizing that you were all democrats who have become republicans, how many of you in either 2008 or in 2012 voted for obama? wow. look at -- wait a minute. keep those hands up. so all but joe voted for obama at least once? at least once. >> i'm a middle class mechanic
all my life. i've been a democrat for over 25 years now and the last eight years i just feel that -- i don't know, i just feel that president obama sits at his desk all day. i'm just -- i wanted to switch. i just felt like, you know, i needed to switch parties. >> let me ask this. how many of you, i'm not saying to lock in, but how many of you would consider voting for hillary clinton? >> would consider? >> would consider voting for hillary clinton. to the rest, five hands, the rest of you, no way, she's dead to you politically? how many of you would consider voting for bernie sanders? one more hand. now, joe, interestingly you'd consider voting for bernie and not for hillary and you're from scranton where her roots are. >> hillary is out hr hillary.
she's been planning this for eight years. she's got experts you can buy. what donald trump has done has disrupted the entire system. >> clark, what are you thinking? >> i don't think donald trump wants to be president to govern the nation. i think he wants to run for president. i think we're going to learn at the end it's a one dollar bed between him and another rich guy just like trading places. it was shot right across the street. >> still to come, more with my group of newly minted republicans and who their ideal candidates would be. >> for once, pennsylvania counts. >> i don't like the way he's playing the game. >> he's the republican version of hillary. >> no one cares because they think it's a joke. >> why can't you say merry christmas now? who stands in the way of saying that. >> the government. ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula. ...to visibly reduce wrinkles.
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dumped at this summer's convention? and what does saying merry christmas mean to some voters? more now with our focus group of pennsylvanians who switched in the democratic to republican party so they could vote on tuesday. >> should the republican nominee, absolutely be one of the three finalists meaning, trump, cruz, kasich? who says yes, it ought to be one of these three guys. >> assuming they get the required number of delegates? i'm going to get there. should it necessarily be one of these three? don't look around. >> so most of you think it should be one of these three. to those who didn't raise your hands, if not one of these three, harriet, michael, joe, who? >> believe it or not, jeb bush. >> jeb bush. but the odds of that are zero. >> i'll tell you why. jeb bush has the background, he has the experience, and most
importantly, he has access to the people who not only helped make america great, but also helped drag it down a little bit, so he knows who to avoid, who to listen to. >> let me ask the trump supporters, those of you for donald trump, should donald trump have to get to 1237, that's the required number of delegates, or is it okay if he gets to 1,100? >> that's fine with me. >> what's fine? >> being 100 short or something like that. still he's going to have the most -- you know, i just feel like he should have the nomination. >> jim, he's saying the thing is rigged. >> here's the thing. now, i'm not going to agree with him on that. i think he did know the rules. >> should have anyway. >> he knows the rules, but i can see, you know, the whining and stuff like that, i think it should be the people. i mean, the people's vote not counting is just -- >> should he have to get to 1237 or is it enough if he's leading
everybody else and he comes close? >> well, if he comes close he should have the highest percentage of probability but he's going to have to work the deal. >> what if he ends up at 1150, not 1237? >> i don't think he gets it automatically. he's going to have to do the work to get it. but he should be the highest considered one. >> go ahead, john. >> it's like saying you get a touchdown even though you only made it into the red zone. >> those are the rules. when he decided to run for president he should have brushed up on all the rules. >> if it comes to where we go to cleveland and trump doesn't get it or cruz, i will not vote. >> you're a donald trump guy. right? >> doesn't it concern you that in virtually all of the head to heads for the general election he gets beaten by hillary, he gets beaten by bernie and the one guy who wins is kasich. so why don't you say maybe kasich isn't everything i want but he's a winner, i'd be better
off with him. >> he's a winner and a fine man, but i don't like the way he's playing the game. >> he's playing it like an adult. >> he's hanging around in the fistfight occurs and then he's going to slide in and what's that doing to all the people out there doing all the hard work? >> kwha is it you're not getting from him? >> i think the issue is that most people like me agree that he's the republican version of hillary. he's basically the same thing. he's another obama, hillary, you're going to -- he's a nice safe choice, but you put him in there, things are going to be the same. if you got no complaints about the way things are slide him in there and we'll go on. >> but you look at him as a continuation of the status quo. >> correct. >> believe me, jerry, i want to hear from you too. >> i just think that if trump does get the nomination he will have to have a politician for vice president. that's all there is to it. kasich, i think maybe he -- that would be a good thing there. >> but it's -- i've got data here that i can show you and
these polls are worth what you pay for them which is nothing. but i've got any number of polls that say kasich versus hillary, kasich wins. look at pennsylvania. did you know we're all pennsylvanians. in fact, i have to get used to saying this. we're all pennsylvania republicans. do you know -- do you think that donald trump has as good a chance of beating hillary as john kasich? >> yeah. >> with the support, he has to have support. so i mean, we've got to bring us together. >> you don't know what lies ahead. it's going to be different. >> this thing has been nuts. right? >> they both are people who, i mean, he is like a giant child. like if he came to my therapy room, he's been married three times, i look at him like he's a giant child. he has no business with our foreign policy. hillary clinton has learned because she's female that she has to finesse things a little bit differently.
she can't be a caddy schoolgirl. >> this is really odd. so there will be three delegates selected from each congressional district and they have absolutely no requirement to follow the will of the people. i think they should. do you think they should? we agree. right? john, what are you thinking? >> i think at the end of the day, i'm hoping and praying that pennsylvanians are going to look and say you know, do we really want someone who is as crass and on knox vous as donald trump is? >> joe? >> i think pennsylvania counts. our primarily traditionally is so late it's meaningless. this year it means something and i would hope people would take the time to vote on both sides, republican or democrat, because the democrats have a choice too.
they have just as major a choice as the republicans do. republicans have to decide do they want an outsider, do they want an insiderer odo they want someone from another planet. >> outsider, and i think with a little help i think it would be another ronald reagan. >> oh, god. >> mary how? >> i want a person for president who i can honestly merry christmas. >> why can't you say merry christmas now? who stands in the way of saying that. >> the government. >> come on. >> i truly believe that. >> they told you that on fox. right? every december they roll that out. >> kimberly, bottom line? >> nobody i know is voting. they think it's a [ bleep ] and when donald trump joined we all decided we weren't going to vote because it was [ bleep ] for lack of a better term.
that's what it was. because my generation, we're not having these conversations. no one cares because we think it's a joke. >> i registered for this election because i wanted to have fun. it's like a roller coaster, just to be on that ride. whether or not i vote for trump will come -- i'll literally make that decision in the voting booth but if i vote for him it will be so that he loses many the general election. >> i realize we are not a scientifically drawn cross section, but i'm leaving this panel with the belief that tuesday in pennsylvania is a referendum on donald trump. >> i agree. >> it all comes down to trump. >> here to interpret what those folks in my pennsylvania registration swap focus group is saying is someone that has just conducted a new poll in the state. the director for the franklin and marshall college center for politics and public affairs. that was my first rodeo. you do this all the time. do the feelings expressed by
that group comport with your brand new franklin and marshall poll? >> yeah, i think they do. in many ways, you know, you heard sort of an anti government attitude out of some of them, some skepticism about the future, some sense that we've been left behind. you got that out of a couple of people and most of them switched for reasons to vote for a candidate. a few, what we call strategic voters, i call it sabotage voting meaning they're going to vote for trump because they want a democrat to win the general election, you know, bernie sanders or hillary clinton. but that was a pretty good representation, maybe with one thing missing, and that's the sense of a lot of white working class, blue collar workers who feel that the recession is not over for them. that the economy has passed them by. you've got a little bit of that, but that's another one of the
aspects of trump's support and then lastly, you did hear an important element. trump is the kind of candidate who sticks his finger in the eye of the establishment, who tells it like it is. that's literally what the polls, the quantitative surveys tell us, michael. >> well, you saw that donald trump had a majority of my focus group many the latest franklin and marshall poll. you've got donald trump at 40. and john kasich at 24. >> yeah, no, you're exactly right. in fact, if you take a look at the polls that have been done, he has about a 19 point lead in the real clear politics average. you go to the poll, 15-point edge for trump. we're at 14. so there's a consensus among the pollsters. the only question is can cruz or
kasich get it closer? somehow can they manage to make it more competitive? trump is not going to do as well in pennsylvania as he did in new york where he won 60% plus and the delegate situation you got into is another matter but i will add something to that. 31 delegates of those running, there are 162 candidates throughout the state that 54 get elected. 31 say they will vote for trump if elected. they're not bound, but say that, and 28 say they will vote for ted cruz. so these cruz and trump do have delegates that say they will vote for them if they are elected and kasich has a few as well. >> i don't like the system. i would be fine with it if when i went in to vote it said dr. terry madonna will vote for x at the convention. i'm fine with that. >> you're absolutely right, but here's the philosophy of many
republicans, particularly the leaders nationally. it's not the voters that pick the candidate for the presidency, it's the delegates and you've heard that many times. >> absolutely. thank you so much. still to come, will the rules change at the convention if donald trump doesn't get 1237 delegates that he needs to clinch the nomination? i will talk to an rnc insider next. if you misplace your discover card, you can use freeze it to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds. and once you find it, you can switch it right on again. you're back! freeze it from discover. get it at discover.com. we stop arthritis pain, so you don't have to stop. because you believe in go. onward. today's the day. carpe diem. tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain has two layers of pain relief. the first is fast. the second lasts all day. we give you your day back.
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basically primary coming up on april 26th and he's within a stone's three of 1,100 and once you pass that threshold the delegates really start to jump on board. remember, you've got a whole generation of insiders who are looking at the possibility of an outsider president. they're going to want to stay on the inside. the best way to do that is to get on the trump train. i think that train is certainly approaching the station. >> i've explained to my audience just a moment ago the importance of pennsylvania because of this unique untethered 54 of the 71 being able to do whatever they want to do in cleveland. will you speak to the importance of the commonwealth of pennsylvania? >> oh, absolutely. the 54 delegates when combined with other delegates can either a deal maker or a deal breaker. if they decide to go a different way they could be the one that stops donald trump or any other candidate from getting to the 1,237. on the other hand they have the ticket to get across the line,
to provide the bridge that gets these candidates to the 1,237, gives them a presumptive status and the first ballot win so they win the nomination. >> as one who is on the rules committee, what do you think of my state's system? i don't like the idea that i will walk into a ballot booth on tuesday and there will be no indication of the viewpoint of those delegates for whom they support for president. it's a pig and a poke. i'm voting for one of them and then they can go do whatever they want to do. >> well, there are two schools of thought. one school of thought is really we should have the voters decide through selecting delegates. you'd be in that camp which is to say hey, wait a minute here, this is what we the voters want to have happen at the convention. the other school of thought is, we want to empower the state of pennsylvania. we want to give them the ability to possibly pick a running mate even, to give them other positions of power and the best way to do that is to have their
delegates be unbound so they can deliver the most back to the state of pennsylvania. >> you just had a rules committee meeting this past week in hollywood, florida. what was the big outcome, if any? >> the consensus was we shouldn't change the rules in the middle of the game. we've already played seven innings. why would you change the rules going into the eighth and ninth inning? there was also this idea that if we made any change it would be viewed with cynicism. there would be a perception by one of the three candidates that we were trying to help another candidate. and then there's the possibility of unintended consequences. under roberts rules of order any one of the delegates could raise a point of order. if they did they could end the week without a nominee. >> do you take umbrage that the process is rigged, that it's a sham. >> >> well, i think donald trump is a candidate who likes to dictate the topic of the day.
i think the anti establishment, i am not them, i am not a part of a system in washington, d.c. that is broken and needs to be fixed and i think he views the rnc and the dnc as part of those problems. so no, i don't -- candidates say what they need to say to get elected. >> what's your response to him when he does say that it's a rigged system? >> well, that's like saying that it's a rigged system, that will are four balls but only three strikes. that's just the rules of the game. the rules have been available since october 1st. it's ben equally available to all of the candidates. >> will we have a clear picture on tuesday as to whether donald trump is getting to 1,237? >> i think so. i think you're going to start to see the many mentum pick up. there was a huge win in new york and i think if he sweeps in the northeast, really the last ditch
effort will be indiana and i think you'll see a lot of folks try to make indiana a second wisconsin, which is this is the last chance to stop donald trump. i think trump understands that. i think the rest of the field understands that. and i think if he wins indiana or does very well in indiana it will all be -- it will be all but